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View Full Version : Pujols looking for 10/$300mm


illinibk
01-25-2011, 01:46 PM
Ouch.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hotstove10/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=6056760

If he won't budge off that, is anyone (besides Hendry) willing to give him that much? I'd have to think, the last 3-4 years of that contract would be a team killer. No way Pujols keeps up this level of production from age 38-42. So with a starting point of 10/300, what's a realistic contract? 6/200? 7/220?

Viva Medias B's
01-25-2011, 02:23 PM
I think Cardinal Nation needs to prepare itself for Albert playing somewhere else in 2012.

Nellie_Fox
01-25-2011, 02:39 PM
I must say, I'm tired of fan bases being referred to as "nations."

CWSpalehoseCWS
01-25-2011, 04:41 PM
This is what I don't get sometimes. How the hell does Pujols need that ridiculous amount of money? Is he one of if not the best? Yeah, but you think he'd lessen that so that the Cards have a realistic chance of signing him and being able to keep a contending team around him.

guillensdisciple
01-25-2011, 04:44 PM
Ouch.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hotstove10/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=6056760

If he won't budge off that, is anyone (besides Hendry) willing to give him that much? I'd have to think, the last 3-4 years of that contract would be a team killer. No way Pujols keeps up this level of production from age 38-42. So with a starting point of 10/300, what's a realistic contract? 6/200? 7/220?

If anything, this is a clear indication that he wants to play for either the Yankees or the Red Sox.

Hitmen77
01-25-2011, 04:51 PM
If anything, this is a clear indication that he wants to play for either the Yankees or the Red Sox.

Yep, I can see him ending up in Yankees pinstripes.

I don't care if they have Teixeira, that wouldn't stop them from spending an insane amount on another MVP-type player.

kittle42
01-25-2011, 05:12 PM
I must say, I'm tired of fan bases being referred to as "nations."

I think we should use the term "Nation-state" instead.

I believe this was another horrid thing that started somehow with the Red Sox. And if I'm wrong, I think we should blame it on them, anyway.

Red Barchetta
01-25-2011, 05:45 PM
It makes me wonder what Babe Ruth, Mickey Mantle, Willie Mays, Joe Dimaggio and Ted Williams would make these days.

$30M/year to play MLB. No wonder it costs $8 to buy a Lite Beer at a baseball game. :mad:

kittle42
01-25-2011, 05:52 PM
$30M/year to play MLB. No wonder it costs $8 to buy a Lite Beer at a baseball game. :mad:

It's not the player salaries. It's the triple-hops brewing.

LongLiveFisk
01-25-2011, 06:01 PM
So am I.

Best of luck to him!

Foulke You
01-25-2011, 06:13 PM
I think we should use the term "Nation-state" instead.
What about provinces? Could we get away with calling ourselves "White Sox Province"? :tongue:

MisterB
01-25-2011, 06:25 PM
What about provinces? Could we get away with calling ourselves "White Sox Province"? :tongue:

I'd go with something cozier, like "White Sox Township".

Zisk77
01-25-2011, 07:24 PM
I must say, I'm tired of fan bases being referred to as "nations."


I agreee, except for the university of Illinois...They are the nation of Chief illiniwek afterall :D:

kobo
01-25-2011, 07:40 PM
If anything, this is a clear indication that he wants to play for either the Yankees or the Red Sox.
He wants to be the highest paid player in baseball, so this automatically means he wants to play for the Yankees or Red Sox? I don't think so. He wants what he thinks he's worth, and seeing as how he is one of the greatest players playing today, it makes sense he wants to be the first $30 million a year man. He's finishing up a 7 year $100 million deal, which when you consider his stats over the last 5 years that deal was a steal for the Cardinals. The Cardinals knew this day was going to come, now we'll see if they are ready to pay. I don't think he's going to get a 10 year deal, but he'll get a 7 or 8 year deal that will probably be worth between $27 - $30 million per season. If the Cardinals don't do that, another team will.

SOXSINCE'70
01-25-2011, 07:50 PM
I must say, I'm tired of fan bases being referred to as "nations."

That makes two of us.

SOXSINCE'70
01-25-2011, 07:52 PM
If anything, this is a clear indication that he wants to play for either the Yankees or the Red Sox.

Yes, but the Yankmees have many more years of Mark Texiera, and Adrian Gonzales
will be putting fannies in seats for the Blow Sawx for many years.Could Albert adjust to being a D.H.??
We'll see.

soxfanreggie
01-25-2011, 10:06 PM
He wants to be the highest paid player in baseball, so this automatically means he wants to play for the Yankees or Red Sox? I don't think so. He wants what he thinks he's worth, and seeing as how he is one of the greatest players playing today, it makes sense he wants to be the first $30 million a year man. He's finishing up a 7 year $100 million deal, which when you consider his stats over the last 5 years that deal was a steal for the Cardinals. The Cardinals knew this day was going to come, now we'll see if they are ready to pay. I don't think he's going to get a 10 year deal, but he'll get a 7 or 8 year deal that will probably be worth between $27 - $30 million per season. If the Cardinals don't do that, another team will.

Yes, his current deal turned out to be a huge benefit for the Cardinals. What would have happened though if he was injured midway through it? Would he have given money back to the team? If a player and team agree to a guaranteed contract, they should live up to it. Is it smart for a team to negotiate with a player to extend a contract if the player is "outplaying" it? Yes, if the team can afford it.

When looking at what his $300 million deal would mean, the Cardinals could instead pay Mark Teixeira and still get a very good starting pitcher on top of him.

If this deal gets done, I see the present value of the deal being nowhere close to $300 million. I see millions and millions of it being deferred so that the PV is deeply discounted - paid out until say...2030?

If it's 8 years, I would have stronger feelings toward it getting done. If it is for ten years, it could very easily hamper the Cards' payroll - unless salaries continue to explode and you see the Yankees giving Hanley Ramirez a $40 million contract when his deal is up.

Cards fans...you ready for a big hike in ticket prices if this deal gets done? If each ticket is increased a dollar and a beer is bought for each fan, that could about cover the increase in his salary.

Oblong
01-25-2011, 10:24 PM
Give him 9 years $250 million. $33 a year for the first 3 years, $29 for years 4 and 5, $27 for years 6 and 7,$21 for for 8 and $18 for 9.

This team's averaged more than 3.3 million fans for the past 6 seasons. They've made the playoffs 7 out of the last 11 years with a payroll that wasn't really that outlandish, never topping $100 million. Now granted that may be how they choose to run their business and if it is, fine. But don't complain when the guy who's a once in a generation player asks for a lot of money. It is a business. The Cards can afford that deal if they want to without any huge impact on prices. They can use it as an excuse to raise prices.

If what he's asking for is ridiculous it's because all salaries are ridiculous. It's in line with what's going on out there though.

guillen4life13
01-25-2011, 10:49 PM
It's not the player salaries. It's the triple-hops brewing.

:gulp::clap::rolling:

SephClone89
01-25-2011, 11:01 PM
Yes, but the Yankmees have many more years of Mark Texiera, and Adrian Gonzales
will be putting fannies in seats for the Blow Sawx for many years.Could Albert adjust to being a D.H.??
We'll see.

Your nicknames for teams are SO. FUNNY.

:rolleyes:

TheVulture
01-26-2011, 12:30 AM
I'd have to think, the last 3-4 years of that contract would be a team killer. No way Pujols keeps up this level of production from age 38-42.

Thirty million dollars could be minimum salary by 2021.

DumpJerry
01-26-2011, 02:01 AM
Your nicknames for teams are SO. FUNNY.

:rolleyes:
Those nicknames have been used here for many years. Knock off the personal attacks.

soltrain21
01-26-2011, 09:34 AM
Those nicknames have been used here for many years. Knock off the personal attacks.

Dane Cook has been doing comedy for a long time, too. That doesn't mean he is funny.

Hitmen77
01-26-2011, 10:25 AM
Give him 9 years $250 million. $33 a year for the first 3 years, $29 for years 4 and 5, $27 for years 6 and 7,$21 for for 8 and $18 for 9.

This team's averaged more than 3.3 million fans for the past 6 seasons. They've made the playoffs 7 out of the last 11 years with a payroll that wasn't really that outlandish, never topping $100 million. Now granted that may be how they choose to run their business and if it is, fine. But don't complain when the guy who's a once in a generation player asks for a lot of money. It is a business. The Cards can afford that deal if they want to without any huge impact on prices. They can use it as an excuse to raise prices.

If what he's asking for is ridiculous it's because all salaries are ridiculous. It's in line with what's going on out there though.

The problem in MLB is that good attendance is not enough. Milwaukee drew 3 million fans in 2008 and 2009 and probably don't have a prayer of keeping Fielder. Cleveland had 455 consecutive sellouts through 2001 and that still wasn't enough to stop Manny, Thome, etc. from leaving for bigger markets.

St. Louis is probably better off in terms of revenue than those two teams due to their rich history of winning, but selling out every game in St. Louis doesn't mean they can spend like the Yankees and Red Sox.

Big market teams make a killing in things like local TV revenue, local corporate sponsorship, etc. You're just not going to make as much money off of that in a medium or small market. I haven't seen specific ticket prices, but I expect that the average ticket price in NY or Boston is much higher than it is in St. Louis. The Cards sell out every game, but probably wouldn't if they started charging Yankee Stadium prices.

This is why so many of these iconic players end up playing for a handful of teams. It's not that NY, Boston (plus a few other big markets) just happen to be the only teams that have owners willing to spend while all the smaller markets just happen to have ownership that don't want to spend to win.

The few "once in a generation" players that are staying with their home team (like Mauer) seem to be doing so at the expense of handcuffing that team's ability to be competitive with the rest of their payroll.

This is just more of the same in MLB and it isn't necessarily about how cheap Cardinals ownership is.

Oblong
01-26-2011, 01:06 PM
I don't believe for a second that teams don't resign their players, those who end up in Boston or NY, because of a lack of money. It's because they'd simply rather not pay the contract because the cost per win is not justifiable.

Thome and Manny could have stayed in Cleveland but the ownership was cheap and didn't want to pay. Not because they couldn't pay.

Ownership uses that as an excuse to keep more money for themselves. Winning only brings in more money if there's signifigant attendance increase, which in the case of the Brewers and Cards, is not really possible, or a long run in the playoffs. So they ask themselves is it worth it to spend an extra $15-20 million a year for a player or two if it's not going to amount to nearly that much in return? And nothing wrong with asking that question if that's waht they want to do. But don't pretend it's something else.

ewokpelts
01-26-2011, 01:32 PM
fielder and pujols are two different examples.

pujols signed the deal in the 2003 offseason, when the cardinals were still two years away from moving into thier new stadium. they knew they could pay him 100 miilion over 7 years becuase the revenue strams would be different(remember, busch stadium III has less seats than busch stadium II did, but more premium seating). now, heading into 2011, they have the facility that COULD make back the money they would have to give him, but the attendance isnt quite there. yes they sell out most games, but this is with heavy discounting and promotional opprotunities. I get cardinal emails every week and they always have some sort of a discount for tickets. Especially in the offseason when they are trying to sell the Pujols and Larussa packs.

Can they afford him? Probably. Do they WANT to have 30 million tied up in payrool for JUST one guy? Probably not. Especially when you consider that he's not getting any younger.


As for Fielder, I doubt the Brewers can either afford him or want him back. He's a DH playing first base. And he's been more than upfront about wanting to be paid A LOT OF MONEY. Something the brewers have not done.

They have been able to sign other players to long term deal, but not fielder. he wants a max deal.

Also, while the brewers draw well(2.5 million fans or more annually since 2005), they are a MUCH smaller market than st louis is. In fact, the city of milwaukee has the SMALLEST population of any city with a MLB team(last i read, 600k in the city limits).

it's in thier best interests to let him walk to boston next year.(2011 is coincidentally the last year of "big papi's" contract

g0g0
01-26-2011, 01:44 PM
Don't do it Henry! Don't you dare bring him to the North Side! :o:

WhiteSox5187
01-26-2011, 01:52 PM
Don't do it Henry! Don't you dare bring him to the North Side! :o:

Yea! I'd hate for the best player in baseball to be on the Cubs too!

WizardsofOzzie
01-26-2011, 02:01 PM
Don't do it Henry! Don't you dare bring him to the North Side! :o:

Hendry would go 15/500

Hitmen77
01-26-2011, 02:48 PM
I don't believe for a second that teams don't resign their players, those who end up in Boston or NY, because of a lack of money. It's because they'd simply rather not pay the contract because the cost per win is not justifiable.

Thome and Manny could have stayed in Cleveland but the ownership was cheap and didn't want to pay. Not because they couldn't pay.

Ownership uses that as an excuse to keep more money for themselves. Winning only brings in more money if there's signifigant attendance increase, which in the case of the Brewers and Cards, is not really possible, or a long run in the playoffs. So they ask themselves is it worth it to spend an extra $15-20 million a year for a player or two if it's not going to amount to nearly that much in return? And nothing wrong with asking that question if that's waht they want to do. But don't pretend it's something else.

I guess it's then just an amazing, incredible coincidence that all the "cheap" owners in MLB are in small markets and the teams who "want to win" are in the large markets. What are the odds of things working out almost exactly that way? :thinking:

I don't know specifics of the Cardinals ownership and I don't doubt that the owners in places Pittsburgh (as reported last summer) aren't exactly going broke. But I really doubt that the smaller market teams can spend money like the Yankees and Red Sox but simply "choose not to". Common sense says that it isn't just by chance that the larger the market, the "better" the ownership. Sure, there are outliers among the teams - the Tigers ownership willing to spend more than would typically fit their market size and the Marlins just making a profit on a tiny payroll when they surely can afford more. But on the whole, the correlation between "willingness" to spend and market size is rather stark.

Can the Cardinals commit to $30 million/yr for Pujols until he's 42? Probably, but then they aren't going to have much left over to cover all the other roster spots and they're much more likely to be handcuffed by such a big contract to one player than the richest teams would be. If that was the Yankees, they could pay him that huge bonanza and then let it merely be a small speed bump in their competitiveness for the final years of his contract if he's washed up at 38.

There, of course, is also the matter of some rich teams spending money, but doing so stupidly (Mets, Cubs) while others make the most of young inexpensive talent (Twins, Rays). So I'm not saying that higher payroll always means more successful team.

I guess we could debate all day about how much of a profit the owners should make (and I won't argue that they're making money), but I think the facts speak for themselves against the idea that all the "cheap" owners are in the small markets while all the owners who "want to win" are in the largest markets.

g0g0
01-26-2011, 08:31 PM
Hendry would go 15/500

That's what I'm afraid of! Not to mention the possibility of him buddying up with Soriano lol.

SephClone89
01-26-2011, 08:54 PM
I think the Cubs should make a strong push if he hits the market.

DumpJerry
01-26-2011, 08:57 PM
I want 10/$300M, too. Any takers?





Bueller? Bueller?


:whiner:

Foulke You
02-05-2011, 02:14 PM
I guess the Pujols talks are not going well:

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/02/pujols-talks-not-going-well.html

DumpJerry
02-05-2011, 02:20 PM
If he does not sign, goes FA after the season and does not get an offer that is better than whatever the Card's best offer is right now, I will bust a lung laughing.

If he is not bluffing about being signed by the start of Spring Training, he should buy Lottery tickets since he already knows he won't have an injury in 2011 that could be career-threatening or at least serious enough to lower his contract value.

Viva Medias B's
02-05-2011, 02:29 PM
I just hope the Cubs don't get Albert. Just imagne Cardinal Nation's love for Albert taking a 180 downward if he does that.

JermaineDye05
02-05-2011, 02:52 PM
I guess the Pujols talks are not going well:

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/02/pujols-talks-not-going-well.html

Didn't we hear the same thing with Mauer?

I'm sure a deal will get done eventually.

NLaloosh
02-05-2011, 04:41 PM
Hendry would go 15/500

That's the way I see it. If he doesn't re-sign with the Cardinals as he should then he'll get stuck playing for the flubs.

MtGrnwdSoxFan
02-05-2011, 05:44 PM
I guess the Pujols talks are not going well:

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/02/pujols-talks-not-going-well.html

I love how the article states that the Red Sox or Yankees will get creative if Pujols hits the free agent market.

"How much, Albert? Ah, never mind, here's a blank check. Fill it out, and deposit it. Clearance should be expected around 3-5 business days, and welcome to the Yankees/Red Sox."

Yeah, that's real creative. If Pujols joins either of those teams, they'll put him in the outfield somewhere if he doesn't want to be a DH.

However, I honestly see the Cubs as Option A if he doesn't go back with the Cards...and boy, will THAT be a kick in the ass for Cards fans. Hendry will sell Ricketts on it, and we know Hendry will be all too willing to go 12/380 for a player of his stature.

voodoochile
02-05-2011, 05:59 PM
It's not the player salaries. It's the triple-hops brewing.


It's not the player salaries it's what the market will bear...

Some of that is of course due to the fact they have a captive audience and monopoly control of every beer sold to that audience.

However so long as the money they make is greater at higher prices the price will continue to increase.

It would make no sense to base ticket prices or beer prices on costs because if they over price the product they will simply make less revenue.

Brian26
02-05-2011, 08:03 PM
He's finishing up a 7 year $100 million deal, which when you consider his stats over the last 5 years that deal was a steal for the Cardinals.

It was BEYOND a steal for the Cardinals.

I have to admit that I've always thought Pujols should give the Cardinals a hometown discount, and that it would be good for baseball to see him stay in St. Louis. He's, arguably, the best player in baseball over the past ten years (certainly one of the top two, along with ARod), but he's been nowhere compensated evenly close to fairly for that.

DumpJerry
02-05-2011, 11:10 PM
I just hope the Cubs don't get Albert. Just imagne Cardinal Nation's love for Albert taking a 180 downward if he does that.
Why would that bother you? He'll be in the NL.