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View Full Version : Kip tossing a No-No


MarqSox
07-01-2002, 08:32 PM
I hope he gets it.

jklm
07-01-2002, 08:36 PM
Poor KW...

Chisox_cali
07-01-2002, 08:38 PM
I hope he does too, of course he's gonna need some actual runs so he doesn't pitch a no hitter and lose maybe. But of Course uS mentioning this is gonna jinx him...

MarqSox
07-01-2002, 08:41 PM
Originally posted by Chisox_cali
I hope he does too, of course he's gonna need some actual runs so he doesn't pitch a no hitter and lose maybe. But of Course uS mentioning this is gonna jinx him...

The Brewers announcers have been talking openly about it since the 5th inning anyway.

MarqSox
07-01-2002, 08:44 PM
There goes that.

sox_fan_forever
07-01-2002, 08:44 PM
Aww shucks. He just lost it.

Chisox_cali
07-01-2002, 08:44 PM
And there it goes...

kevingrt
07-01-2002, 08:44 PM
Thank God, he lsot it, just more humilating to our franchise

cheeses_h_rice
07-01-2002, 08:45 PM
He could get a no-hitter yet still lose the game. The Pirates have a whopping 2 hits to their credit through 7.

kevingrt
07-01-2002, 08:49 PM
There goes the lead too...

doublem23
07-01-2002, 09:02 PM
Man, where were all the FOKs last year when Kip was struggling with the Sox?

FarWestChicago
07-01-2002, 09:14 PM
Originally posted by doublem23
Man, where were all the FOKs last year when Kip was struggling with the Sox? Hanging out with the FOV's? :smile:

Daver
07-01-2002, 09:22 PM
Originally posted by doublem23
Man, where were all the FOKs last year when Kip was struggling with the Sox?

May I go on record that I was not then,and am not now an FOK?

doublem23
07-01-2002, 09:36 PM
Originally posted by daver


May I go on record that I was not then,and am not now an FOK?

We all know, daver. :smile:

baggio202
07-01-2002, 09:44 PM
i love the question on the poll.."no ,it makes the sox look stupid"..lol....kip doesnt make the sox look stupid....kenny williams does that all by himself :smile:

Daver
07-01-2002, 09:49 PM
Originally posted by baggio202
i love the question on the poll.."no ,it makes the sox look stupid"..lol....kip doesnt make the sox look stupid....kenny williams does that all by himself :smile:

Yeah,he traded a pitcher that was given two and a half years to develop and continued to crap his pants everytime he took the mound,unless he was given a 4 run lead in the first inning.

I suppose Kenny is responsible for the beer vendors occaisionally blocking the fans view too,by your logic.

doublem23
07-01-2002, 09:53 PM
Originally posted by daver
I suppose Kenny is responsible for the beer vendors occaisionally blocking the fans view too,by your logic.

Of course! This is the third-largest market in the U.S. Those clumsy vendors should be sent down to Charlotte to prove they can handle the bigs and some expierenced vets should be brought in to fill the void.

baggio202
07-01-2002, 09:57 PM
Originally posted by daver


Yeah,he traded a pitcher that was given two and a half years to develop and continued to crap his pants everytime he took the mound,unless he was given a 4 run lead in the first inning.

I suppose Kenny is responsible for the beer vendors occaisionally blocking the fans view too,by your logic.

youre right daver...there has never been a pitcher in baseball before that didnt make it big after struggling his first 3 years in pro ball....you just cant admit you were wrong about kip can you???

Daver
07-01-2002, 09:59 PM
Originally posted by baggio202


youre right daver...there has never been a pitcher in baseball before that didnt make it big after struggling his first 3 years in pro ball....you just cant admit you were wrong about kip can you???

I wasn't wrong about Kip,I was right about Nardi......

Jerry_Manuel
07-01-2002, 10:02 PM
Thank god he didn't. Not that I'm against Kip, or that I'm anti KW. With Ritchie on the mound tomorrow, he would be trying to throw the ball 120 MPH to in his silly attempt to justify this deal.

RedPinStripes
07-01-2002, 10:06 PM
Originally posted by daver


Yeah,he traded a pitcher that was given two and a half years to develop and continued to crap his pants everytime he took the mound,unless he was given a 4 run lead in the first inning.

I suppose Kenny is responsible for the beer vendors occaisionally blocking the fans view too,by your logic.

I understand that you were'nt devistated to see Kip go like myself, but I can't understand how you can support KW? The man is a puppet and if you like his trades, you can't possibly like his roster moves or how he handles mgt. Manuel needs an ass whoopin and keep a steady lineup, and We all know about Nardi, and the genius base coaches. What good GM keeps all that crap on a coaching staff? According to your column, you're not calling for JM's head yet. I've been calling for it for 2 years. :smile:

Manuel might not need to go just yet, but i think everything around him beside Nossek needs to go. That whole management staff is useless. What kind of a GM keeps that around? IMO, that's one of the main problems with this team. Then again, JR is all about favorites. Friends come before championships with JR.

:KW
"I'm a perfect example of that."

WinningUgly!
07-01-2002, 10:12 PM
Originally posted by doublem23


Of course! This is the third-largest market in the U.S. Those clumsy vendors should be sent down to Charlotte to prove they can handle the bigs and some expierenced vets should be brought in to fill the void.

Great point. We need to work a deal to get a few vendors from Yankee Stadium. They have valuable post season experience. We don't want our current vendors getting all wide-eyed & distracted while the big games are going on.

Daver
07-01-2002, 10:25 PM
Originally posted by RedPinStripes


I understand that you were'nt devistated to see Kip go like myself, but I can't understand how you can support KW? The man is a puppet and if you like his trades, you can't possibly like his roster moves or how he handles mgt. Manuel needs an ass whoopin and keep a steady lineup, and We all know about Nardi, and the genius base coaches. What good GM keeps all that crap on a coaching staff? According to your column, you're not calling for JM's head yet. I've been calling for it for 2 years. :smile:



Do I agree with all his trades? No,but I do see that he made all of them with the Intention of improving the team,something Schueler would have never done.Kenny will at least put in the work to do everything he can to make this team a winner,and I am willing to suffer through his learning curve to do it.

BTW I still do not object to the trade for Todd Ritchie.

Konerko05
07-01-2002, 10:30 PM
<<"Yeah,he traded a pitcher that was given two and a half years to develop and continued to crap his pants everytime he took the mound,unless he was given a 4 run lead in the first inning. ">>




Yeah Daver, and Ritchie is 31 years old in his 6th season and he still isn't any good. Why can't you just admit you are wrong? It was a horrible trade when it happened and an even worse trade now.

Daver
07-01-2002, 10:35 PM
Originally posted by Konerko05
"Yeah,he traded a pitcher that was given two and a half years to develop and continued to crap his pants everytime he took the mound,unless he was given a 4 run lead in the first inning. "

Yeah Daver, and Ritchie is 31 years old in his 6th season and he still isn't any good. Why can't you just admit you are wrong? It was a horrible trade when it happened and an even worse trade now.

:iron

The past is for Cowards and Losers which one are you?

Konerko05
07-01-2002, 10:39 PM
Originally posted by daver


:iron

The past is for Cowards and Losers which one are you?

I don't even know how to respond to that post. What is that supposed to mean?

RedPinStripes
07-01-2002, 11:08 PM
Originally posted by daver


Do I agree with all his trades? No,but I do see that he made all of them with the Intention of improving the team,something Schueler would have never done.Kenny will at least put in the work to do everything he can to make this team a winner,and I am willing to suffer through his learning curve to do it.

BTW I still do not object to the trade for Todd Ritchie.

I'm not going to b.s. anyone here. If some remember, i liked the Ritchie trade accept i thought they gave up 1 too many for him. I saw a trade like that comming though. Can't say i like it now, but who the hell thought Ritchie would suck this bad?

Jerry_Manuel
07-01-2002, 11:12 PM
Originally posted by RedPinStripes
I'm not going to b.s. anyone here. If some remember, i liked the Ritchie trade accept i thought they gave up 1 too many for him. I saw a trade like that comming though. Can't say i like it now, but who the hell thought Ritchie would suck this bad?

The trade doesn't look good now because Kip and crew look good. If Ritchie was pitching well, the trade would be a win-win. If the guy we traded for pitched well, that's all that matters.

I refuse to believe that Ritchie is this awful. Maybe getting Alomar back will do him some good.

soxtalker
07-01-2002, 11:19 PM
Originally posted by daver


Do I agree with all his trades? No,but I do see that he made all of them with the Intention of improving the team,something Schueler would have never done.Kenny will at least put in the work to do everything he can to make this team a winner,and I am willing to suffer through his learning curve to do it.

BTW I still do not object to the trade for Todd Ritchie.

I don't understand your comment Daver. Any GM wants to improve his team. They differ in how their approaches and how smart they are.

Schueler used to drive me crazy, because he was so hesitant to make a trade. But that doesn't mean that he didn't want to improve the team. He was very conservative, and he believed in building from within the farm system. One can argue that he was doing JR's bidding (though anyone in that position would), but I think that he is simply a scout at heart. He did make some smart trades and acquisitions (e.g., Eldred). Since he wasn't willing to give up much in the way of future prospects, bad deals didn't cost us much in terms of future talent.

I hope that you are right about KW simply being on the learning curve. From what I've seen so far, I'm becoming quite concerned. There are a number of areas in which he needs to improve -- talent evaluation on many levels (our minor league system, other teams' talent, our coaches), administrative details (Barry vs. Berry), and negotiating ability. But what concerns me most is his apparent attitude. He's very aggressive, which some fans like (wants to win now), but this needs to be balanced with judgement. I see no evidence that he acknowledges -- not to mention learns from -- his mistakes. Instead, he becomes defensive (often in an aggressive manner) or deflects criticism. Yes, he's on the learning curve. Will he be smart enough to learn quickly how to do it well?

kermittheefrog
07-02-2002, 01:17 AM
Originally posted by daver


Do I agree with all his trades? No,but I do see that he made all of them with the Intention of improving the team,something Schueler would have never done.Kenny will at least put in the work to do everything he can to make this team a winner,and I am willing to suffer through his learning curve to do it.

BTW I still do not object to the trade for Todd Ritchie.

Yeah, you know how some general managers run teams without ever having any intention to improve them at all.

voodoochile
07-02-2002, 03:08 AM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog


Yeah, you know how some general managers run teams without ever having any intention to improve them at all.

Holy Crap, it's

:kermit

Where you been, little green dude?

I think Daver's point is that some GM's are more aggressive in making trades to try and win now. Scheuler wasn't that kind of GM, but KW is. Add in the fact that the Ritchie trade was wholey supported by Schu in his role as adviser and it becomes harder to lay all the blame at KW's feet.

I don't know if KW is the ultimate answer at GM for the Sox or not, but nothing is proven yet. We'll find out more this off-season, which will be much more important to the future of the Sox then this last one was.

How many rookies next year? 2? 3? 4? More?
Resign Lofton?
Resign Ray?
If neither who leads off? Who bats second?
Veteran catcher?
Crede is a given - do they trust Jose at SS or try and trade him and get another SS?
Borchard in CF or LF? Will he be totally ready?
What to do with Lee?
Konehead?
Trade Frank?
What about the starting pitching more trades?
Long term deal for Burly-Mon?
New CBA?
Will there even be baseball in 2003?

Last year was a cakewalk compared to the amount of questions they have to answer this year. The only thing they don't have to worry too much about is the bullpen. Hopefully KW is ready, because next year is supposed to be the first year this team is really a pennant contender, but that will completely depend on the decisions they make and how well the current group of pitchers develops over the next 3 months...

Jerry_Manuel
07-02-2002, 08:59 AM
Originally posted by voodoochile
How many rookies next year? 2? 3? 4? More?
Resign Lofton?
Resign Ray?
If neither who leads off? Who bats second?
Veteran catcher?
Crede is a given - do they trust Jose at SS or try and trade him and get another SS?
Borchard in CF or LF? Will he be totally ready?
What to do with Lee?
Konehead?
Trade Frank?
What about the starting pitching more trades?
Long term deal for Burly-Mon?
New CBA?
Will there even be baseball in 2003?


1. Crede, Borchard, Harris.
2. No.
3. No.
4. Jose.
5. No.
6. Jose at SS.
7. Center
8. They'll play him.
9. Offer him a long-term deal
10. Nobody wants Frank.
11. I think he'll try to do something, but I'm scared of him making deals.
12. I'm sure they'll try but I'm not sure he'll accept.
13. Yes.
14. Yes.

harwar
07-02-2002, 09:20 AM
The problem is that neither Shu or KW should be making those kind of decisions at this time.Dan Evans was being groomed(or so i thought)for the GMs' position.When he took over the dodgers they were in total disarray.He made some brilliant moves and now they may be the team to beat in the NL west.If Evans was at the helm,there is no doubt in my mind that we'd be way out in front.Of course,reinsdorf won't shell out the money,nor will he just sit back and let his GM do his job,so its neither here nor there.

kermittheefrog
07-02-2002, 09:41 AM
Originally posted by voodoochile


Holy Crap, it's

:kermit

Where you been, little green dude?

I've been really busy with work, school and a new PC but I'm back and still in top stathead form.

And who you callin' little? I'm like 6'2".

voodoochile
07-02-2002, 10:20 AM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog


I've been really busy with work, school and a new PC but I'm back and still in top stathead form.

And who you callin' little? I'm like 6'2".

How the heck would I know how tall you are? Your namesake is a "little green dude", hence the reference...

Welcome back, we can use some rationality around here...

voodoochile
07-02-2002, 10:22 AM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


1. Crede, Borchard, Harris.
2. No.
3. No.
4. Jose.
5. No.
6. Jose at SS.
7. Center
8. They'll play him.
9. Offer him a long-term deal
10. Nobody wants Frank.
11. I think he'll try to do something, but I'm scared of him making deals.
12. I'm sure they'll try but I'm not sure he'll accept.
13. Yes.
14. Yes.

Nice to see someone has it all figured out...

Technically, Rauch would be a rookie also if he makes the squad and your answer to #11 implies that might happen.

Jose is going to both lead-off AND bat second? I knew he could do it all, but that might be a violation of the rules...

I bet the Sox could get decent value for Frank now or in the off-season.

:D:

Jerry_Manuel
07-02-2002, 12:51 PM
Nice to see someone has it all figured out...

If anyone around here has the answers, it's me.


Technically, Rauch would be a rookie also if he makes the squad and your answer to #11 implies that might happen.

I stand corrected.

Jose is going to both lead-off AND bat second? I knew he could do it all, but that might be a violation of the rules...

By their rules sure. :smile: I messed up there, Harris in the leadoff spot and Jose in the two-spot.

I bet the Sox could get decent value for Frank now or in the off-season.

The problem is that not many if any NL teams want him, and I don't want to see him come into Comiskey and kill us. So the AL is out to. Damn, this is hard! :D:

baggio202
07-02-2002, 03:47 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile


Holy Crap, it's

:kermit

Where you been, little green dude?

I think Daver's point is that some GM's are more aggressive in making trades to try and win now. Scheuler wasn't that kind of GM, but KW is. Add in the fact that the Ritchie trade was wholey supported by Schu in his role as adviser and it becomes harder to lay all the blame at KW's feet.

I don't know if KW is the ultimate answer at GM for the Sox or not, but nothing is proven yet. We'll find out more this off-season, which will be much more important to the future of the Sox then this last one was.

How many rookies next year? 2? 3? 4? More?
Resign Lofton?
Resign Ray?
If neither who leads off? Who bats second?
Veteran catcher?
Crede is a given - do they trust Jose at SS or try and trade him and get another SS?
Borchard in CF or LF? Will he be totally ready?
What to do with Lee?
Konehead?
Trade Frank?
What about the starting pitching more trades?
Long term deal for Burly-Mon?
New CBA?
Will there even be baseball in 2003?

Last year was a cakewalk compared to the amount of questions they have to answer this year. The only thing they don't have to worry too much about is the bullpen. Hopefully KW is ready, because next year is supposed to be the first year this team is really a pennant contender, but that will completely depend on the decisions they make and how well the current group of
pitchers develops over the next 3 months...

to me its real simple whats up for next year..check the payroll...this year went from 64-57 million...and the difference in winning pct from this year to last year reflects that difference..if we go out and get guys to help this team and keep the key guys we have..come in with a payroll around 70 million..it could be a good year...if we come in with a payroll of around 45-50 million...count on 3rd place