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View Full Version : Cubs are REALLY trying to piss off their fans..again....


ewokpelts
01-10-2011, 04:12 PM
http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/chc/ticketing/pick_13_plan.jsp?partnerId=ed-4358894-178520498

13 game mini plans....last year was a 9 game plan.


Same bad april games forced on you, only this time you get a yankees game in your package!

oh, and cubs convention is less than 5 days away, and STILL NOT sold out.

Red Barchetta
01-10-2011, 04:15 PM
http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/chc/ticketing/pick_13_plan.jsp?partnerId=ed-4358894-178520498

13 game mini plans....last year was a 9 game plan.


Same bad april games forced on you, only this time you get a yankees game in your package!

oh, and cubs convention is less than 5 days away, and STILL NOT sold out.


It's amazing what happens when you don't have the power of the mighty Tribune marketing machine behind you...

kittle42
01-10-2011, 04:19 PM
The sheep will still be out in full force.

Side note - I have been dating more frequently recently and pretty much *every* girl I meet who is a Chicago transplant and likes sports says she's become a Cubs fan "because you live in Chicago, so of course you'd be!" And these are girls who actually follow baseball, at least to an extent.

Ugh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

hi im skot
01-10-2011, 04:23 PM
The sheep will still be out in full force.

Side note - I have been dating more frequently recently and pretty much *every* girl I meet who is a Chicago transplant and likes sports says she's become a Cubs fan "because you live in Chicago, so of course you'd be!" And these are girls who actually follow baseball, at least to an extent.

Ugh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So, needless to say you're still single...?

Nellie_Fox
01-10-2011, 04:28 PM
So, needless to say you're still single...?Why is that "needless to say?" Marital status doesn't get in the way of dating for some guys.

Fenway
01-10-2011, 04:41 PM
It's amazing what happens when you don't have the power of the mighty Tribune marketing machine behind you...

Tribune still has a vested interest in the Flubs

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/MSadtke3w2A/hqdefault.jpg

yes they carry the Sox too but remember WGN also has radio

Gavin
01-10-2011, 04:58 PM
My GF's a Cubs fan. It's perfect, because she's not really a baseball fan but she is definitely a Cubs fan... great for pointing out to my friends (we're all from NC) what it means to be a Cubs fan.

DSpivack
01-10-2011, 05:07 PM
Tribune still has a vested interest in the Flubs

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/MSadtke3w2A/hqdefault.jpg

yes they carry the Sox too but remember WGN also has radio

Phil Rogers, for one.

TommyJohn
01-10-2011, 06:35 PM
Why is that "needless to say?" Marital status doesn't get in the way of dating for some guys.

I know several like that myself.

kittle42
01-10-2011, 06:51 PM
So, needless to say you're still single...?

Of course - these women's standards for sports squads are way too low!

Zisk77
01-10-2011, 07:22 PM
Why is that "needless to say?" Marital status doesn't get in the way of dating for some guys.

I think he means he'd only marry a sox fan.:cool:

FielderJones
01-10-2011, 10:45 PM
I think he means he'd only marry a sox fan.:cool:

I married a Cubs fan ... now she's a Sox fan. :D:

But then, she understands baseball and likes winning. :wink:

DumpJerry
01-11-2011, 06:26 AM
I'm still trying to figure out how selling tickets to baseball games piss off the fans.

Before Ricketts bought the team, did the Cubs not charge money for tickets? If they are now demanding money for tickets, I could understand why the fans would be upset. I'd be furious.

Maybe the thread title should be "Cubs are screwing over re-sellers by offering cold weather games." The fans can buy single game tickets to just about any game they want to attend, nobody is forcing them to buy the multi game package.

doublem23
01-11-2011, 08:07 AM
Maybe the thread title should be "Cubs are screwing over re-sellers by offering cold weather games." The fans can buy single game tickets to just about any game they want to attend, nobody is forcing them to buy the multi game package.

Obviously the point is they're scrapping a better value package deal for one that will likely be less popular to everyday fans.

Hitmen77
01-11-2011, 09:22 AM
The sheep will still be out in full force.

Side note - I have been dating more frequently recently and pretty much *every* girl I meet who is a Chicago transplant and likes sports says she's become a Cubs fan "because you live in Chicago, so of course you'd be!" And these are girls who actually follow baseball, at least to an extent.

Ugh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I was hoping we'd see less of that after 2005. Pre-2005, this certainly was rampant among people who moved to Chicago.

Thome25
01-11-2011, 09:46 AM
The Cubs and their fans are trying to piss me off again in 2011....

By simply being in existence.:tongue:

kittle42
01-11-2011, 10:53 AM
I was hoping we'd see less of that after 2005. Pre-2005, this certainly was rampant among people who moved to Chicago.

Oh, no - it is alive and well. I'm not sure anyone from out of town realizes the White Sox won a world series. To be fair, I think the Mets face the same issue when people move to New York.

DumpJerry
01-11-2011, 01:58 PM
Obviously the point is they're scrapping a better value package deal for one that will likely be less popular to everyday fans.
What they're doing is forcing fans who want some good games to buy some crap games so that those games provide some more revenues for the team. It's a practice a lot of sports teams do to ensure something resembling ticket sales for undesirable games.

hi im skot
01-11-2011, 02:25 PM
Of course - these women's standards for sports squads are way too low!

I've found the exact opposite when dating - I've met women who don't particularly care for sports, but align themselves more with the Sox. I'm usually told it's because Cubs "fans" are generally intolerable.

MarySwiss
01-11-2011, 02:38 PM
I married a Cubs fan ... now she's a Sox fan. :D:

But then, she understands baseball and likes winning. :wink:

MrMarySwiss is a convert too. But it took a lot of years! :D:

I think he still roots for the Cubs a little bit since he's one of those who actually did grow up as a Cubs fan. But he proudly wears all the Sox gear I've bought him over time, while I would not be caught dead in Cubs gear! :cool:

doublem23
01-11-2011, 02:59 PM
What they're doing is forcing fans who want some good games to buy some crap games so that those games provide some more revenues for the team. It's a practice a lot of sports teams do to ensure something resembling ticket sales for undesirable games.

Yes, and they're upping the amount of crap games you have to buy, hence the "pissing people off."

ewokpelts
01-11-2011, 03:04 PM
I'm still trying to figure out how selling tickets to baseball games piss off the fans.

Before Ricketts bought the team, did the Cubs not charge money for tickets? If they are now demanding money for tickets, I could understand why the fans would be upset. I'd be furious.

Maybe the thread title should be "Cubs are screwing over re-sellers by offering cold weather games." The fans can buy single game tickets to just about any game they want to attend, nobody is forcing them to buy the multi game package.The cubs fans i know at work were already planning to not buy a 9 game package, and now are "***?!" over a 13 game pack. and one that has more "bad" games than "actually want to see in person" games.

i mean, yes, the scalpers will jump on this, and have plenty of games to unload for pennies on the dollar in april, but if you're an actual FAN, this deal sucks.

the fact that cubs convention is not sold out is very telling of their fanbase now.

ewokpelts
01-11-2011, 03:07 PM
What they're doing is forcing fans who want some good games to buy some crap games so that those games provide some more revenues for the team. It's a practice a lot of sports teams do to ensure something resembling ticket sales for undesirable games.The Ozzie plan is practically the opposite of the cubs "pick 13" plan.

while you have to buy april/may games, you are allowed to get opening day as an april choice, and can pick any other game from a 1/2 price monday to a weekend game.

the only game you"have to" buy is the cubs/sox series. all othe rgame choices are flexible. I purchased an ozzie plan that has OD, cubs/sox, and the rest are 1/2 price mondays.

kittle42
01-11-2011, 03:45 PM
The Ozzie plan is practically the opposite of the cubs "pick 13" plan.

while you have to buy april/may games, you are allowed to get opening day as an april choice, and can pick any other game from a 1/2 price monday to a weekend game.

the only game you"have to" buy is the cubs/sox series. all othe rgame choices are flexible. I purchased an ozzie plan that has OD, cubs/sox, and the rest are 1/2 price mondays.

Based on their history of tickets sales, the Cubs do not have to be anywhere near as accommodating to their fans.

BringHomeDaBacon
01-11-2011, 04:01 PM
The Cubs could include a Tom Ricketts used buttwipe with their marketing material and their fans would still continue to purchase tickets.

kittle42
01-11-2011, 04:23 PM
The Cubs could include a Tom Ricketts used buttwipe with their marketing material and their fans would still continue to purchase tickets.

Let's say the Cubs were to return to levels of horrendous results on-field so as to put them on par with the Royals or Pirates of the last 10-15 years. How long would it take ticket sales and fan interest to plummet accordingly?

Let's put it this way - how many straight seasons of 5th-6th place NL Central finishes would it take?

WhiteSox5187
01-11-2011, 04:35 PM
Let's say the Cubs were to return to levels of horrendous results on-field so as to put them on par with the Royals or Pirates of the last 10-15 years. How long would it take ticket sales and fan interest to plummet accordingly?

Let's put it this way - how many straight seasons of 5th-6th place NL Central finishes would it take?

It wouldn't be enough to have a string of last place or near last place finishes before people stop going to Wrigley, the Sox would have to have a string of playoff runs as well, THEN people might stop going to Wrigley.

SOXPHILE
01-11-2011, 04:39 PM
Oh, no - it is alive and well. I'm not sure anyone from out of town realizes the White Sox won a world series. To be fair, I think the Mets face the same issue when people move to New York.

True, but that's not exactly the same thing. The Mets, who, yes, have won a couple of World Series titles, are up against the Yankees, who have been in existance a lot longer, are much more established, and have won 27 titles, the most in pro sports.

The Cubs are the worst team in all of pro sports, are known for consistantly having losing seasons, and have gone the longest without a championship, or even a championship appearance, than anyone in all of pro sports, not just baseball. That's what the White Sox are up against.

BringHomeDaBacon
01-11-2011, 04:59 PM
Let's say the Cubs were to return to levels of horrendous results on-field so as to put them on par with the Royals or Pirates of the last 10-15 years. How long would it take ticket sales and fan interest to plummet accordingly?

Let's put it this way - how many straight seasons of 5th-6th place NL Central finishes would it take?

The socioeconomic developments in Chicago over the last three decades have left the Cubs in a situation such that they will never be on par with the Royals or Pirates. Thanks to the inelastic demand curve for their product, they will always be able to spend their way into a team that can sniff around .500 or so every other year or so. With their payroll compared to the rotating bottom feeders of the division, they can't help but finish at least third or fourth most years. As long as the neighborhood and the field remain intact, the asshats will remain in the seats and the beer will continue to flow.

kittle42
01-11-2011, 05:24 PM
True, but that's not exactly the same thing. The Mets, who, yes, have won a couple of World Series titles, are up against the Yankees, who have been in existance a lot longer, are much more established, and have won 27 titles, the most in pro sports.

The Cubs are the worst team in all of pro sports, are known for consistantly having losing seasons, and have gone the longest without a championship, or even a championship appearance, than anyone in all of pro sports, not just baseball. That's what the White Sox are up against.

True, but the Cubs' popularity is at or about what the Yankees' popularity is nationwide. Befuddling.

DumpJerry
01-11-2011, 08:53 PM
True, but the Cubs' popularity is at or about what the Yankees' popularity is nationwide. Befuddling.
It's befuddling because it is simply not true. ESPN no longer gives them top billing, I don't see them more coverage than any other team not named Yankees or Red Sox from the national media, so I say this alleged widespread popularity is an urban myth.

Unless this 13 game package gives an amazing discount, how will it upset Cub fans? If you don't like the choice the plan gives you, just pick the games you want to see and buy the tickets. There is nothing on this planet preventing a fan from buying multiple games s/he wants to see. None of my Cub fan friends have complained, much less mentioned, the shortcomings of this ticket package.

kittle42
01-11-2011, 09:27 PM
It's befuddling because it is simply not true. ESPN no longer gives them top billing, I don't see them more coverage than any other team not named Yankees or Red Sox from the national media, so I say this alleged widespread popularity is an urban myth.

What about the disproportionate number of Cubs fans at away games?

DumpJerry
01-11-2011, 10:04 PM
What about the disproportionate number of Cubs fans at away games?
Road tripping Chicagoans. A lot of Cub fans I know follow them on the road.

If there were large numbers of Cub fans who live nowhere near Chicago and have never lived here, we would see more national media coverage of the Cubs.

Other than St. Louis and Milwaukee, what cities regularly get a "disproportionate" number of Cub fans? Cite the source(s) of your data.

kittle42
01-11-2011, 10:18 PM
Other than St. Louis and Milwaukee, what cities regularly get a "disproportionate" number of Cub fans? Cite the source(s) of your data.

My first thought is, "Where would sources for this kind of data even be?"

canOcorn
01-11-2011, 10:26 PM
Road tripping Chicagoans. A lot of Cub fans I know follow them on the road.

If there were large numbers of Cub fans who live nowhere near Chicago and have never lived here, we would see more national media coverage of the Cubs.

Other than St. Louis and Milwaukee, what cities regularly get a "disproportionate" number of Cub fans? Cite the source(s) of your data.

:rolleyes:

Cite the source where there's more Sox fans at a US Cellular game than visiting fans. It doesn't exist.

The Flubs regularly outdraw home teams in several NL parks each year.

IlliniSox4Life
01-12-2011, 02:19 AM
Road tripping Chicagoans. A lot of Cub fans I know follow them on the road.

If there were large numbers of Cub fans who live nowhere near Chicago and have never lived here, we would see more national media coverage of the Cubs.

Other than St. Louis and Milwaukee, what cities regularly get a "disproportionate" number of Cub fans? Cite the source(s) of your data.

Several years ago I saw the Cubs play the Yankees in old Yankee Stadium. If I had to put a conservative estimate I would say probably 25-30% Cubs fans. I've also seen them play in Dodgers Stadium and Petco Park with similar numbers. I've seen the Sox play in Detroit and San Francisco, and while I was surprised by the turnout in San Fran, they were nowhere near the same percentage. I've also seen random games in Baltimore, DC, Philly, Oakland, Boston, Los Angeles, amongst other cities and the only road teams that ever have a better presence than the Cubs are the Yankees and Red Sox.

Sources: Myself.

RadioheadRocks
01-12-2011, 02:27 AM
Let's not forget that a good number of those "Cub fans" showing up at road games can be attributed to the number of sheep herded by Superstation WGN over the years.

DumpJerry
01-12-2011, 07:29 AM
Several years ago I saw the Cubs play the Yankees in old Yankee Stadium. If I had to put a conservative estimate I would say probably 25-30% Cubs fans. I've also seen them play in Dodgers Stadium and Petco Park with similar numbers. I've seen the Sox play in Detroit and San Francisco, and while I was surprised by the turnout in San Fran, they were nowhere near the same percentage. I've also seen random games in Baltimore, DC, Philly, Oakland, Boston, Los Angeles, amongst other cities and the only road teams that ever have a better presence than the Cubs are the Yankees and Red Sox.

Sources: Myself.
Post your survey forms of all the fans who, unlike you, came from zip codes outside the Chicago area. You missed my point to prove yours Fail.

Bob Roarman
01-12-2011, 07:43 AM
Going by road attendance averages the past 10 years the Cubs rank in the top 5 every single season, usually sitting right up there with the Yankees and Red Sox. That's about as close are you're going to get for a source on something that's impossible to tell. Can't say they're all Cubs fans, but you can say they're a big draw. You'd have to assume at least some of them are Cubs fans.

daveeym
01-12-2011, 08:00 AM
My first thought is, "Where would sources for this kind of data even be?". I'm on my blackberry so it's hard to manipulate this but you can start with road attendance in your debate.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/attendance

ewokpelts
01-12-2011, 09:04 AM
Based on their history of tickets sales, the Cubs do not have to be anywhere near as accommodating to their fans.considering the # of empty seats the last two years, they should be.

ewokpelts
01-12-2011, 09:11 AM
A lot of people that I know to be cub fans are pissed/dissapointed with the ricketts, and are pretty refusing to buy into thier garbage. one of my bosses was actually offered season tickets(he was on the waiting list) and turned them down. he said that it was simply too expensive to hope that you can break even over the course of 81 games.
and let's not forget that the cubs STH pay FULL BOX OFFICE PRICE for the privilage of being an STH, and they have to pay the amnusement tax above the cost of the tickets(another great ricketts idea).

guillensdisciple
01-12-2011, 09:48 AM
For what was an extremely ****ty team last year though, the Cubs have improved a fairly good amount this year so at least you can see they are going in the right direction. Obviously, I could care less, but it's not like they are going the opposite route.

fox23
01-12-2011, 09:57 AM
A lot of people that I know to be cub fans are pissed/dissapointed with the ricketts, and are pretty refusing to buy into thier garbage. one of my bosses was actually offered season tickets(he was on the waiting list) and turned them down. he said that it was simply too expensive to hope that you can break even over the course of 81 games.
and let's not forget that the cubs STH pay FULL BOX OFFICE PRICE for the privilage of being an STH, and they have to pay the amnusement tax above the cost of the tickets(another great ricketts idea).

And for every 1 of them leaving, there's about 5 more thrilled ****less to get the opportunity to buy tickets.

kittle42
01-12-2011, 10:07 AM
Post your survey forms of all the fans who, unlike you, came from zip codes outside the Chicago area. You missed my point to prove yours Fail.

Really, you should be held to the same standard. Find me some data which shows that Cubs fans travel from Chicago more frequently than the fans of other teams, and that the great percentage of Cubs fans at opposing parks are made up of said travelers.

kittle42
01-12-2011, 10:08 AM
And for every 1 of them leaving, there's about 5 more thrilled ****less to get the opportunity to buy tickets.

Exactly. What is it you're really mad about, Gene?

kittle42
01-12-2011, 10:11 AM
. I'm on my blackberry so it's hard to manipulate this but you can start with road attendance in your debate.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/attendance

Hey, look who's dead last - the White Sox!

For the 10 years of figures they have available, Cubs are in the top 5 each season.

doublem23
01-12-2011, 10:17 AM
Hey, look who's dead last - the White Sox!

Which doesn't make any sense, you'd think people would be lining up in droves to see a player with as much skill and charisma as Mark Kotsay.

kittle42
01-12-2011, 10:40 AM
Which doesn't make any sense, you'd think people would be lining up in droves to see a player with as much skill and charisma as Mark Kotsay.

The Sox were never higher than 21st on that list throughout the entire 2001-2010 decade.

They're simply not a draw to the casual fan, and won't be unless they maintain some serious success over a period of years (and no, I do not mean a .500+ record).

People outside of Chicago (and, sadly, many people in Chicago) think "Cubs" when they think "Chicago baseball." As I mentioned earlier in the thread, it's the same as people thinking "Yankees" or "Dodgers" when they think of NY and LA baseball. The head-scratching part is that while those two teams have successful legacies, the Cubs are the baseball equivalent of the Clippers.

****ing WGN in the '80s.

TheOldRoman
01-12-2011, 10:53 AM
Which doesn't make any sense, you'd think people would be lining up in droves to see a player with as much skill and charisma as Mark Kotsay.Obviously the Sox are not the draw to the casual fan outside of Chicago, but a lot of the Cubs being so high comes from who is in their division. St. Louis always has over 3 million people. Houston used to get over 3 mil every year, but horrible ineptitude has driven their number down recently. However, Milwaukee has had around 3 mil for each of the last four years. The Sox get Kansas City and Cleveland, both of which are desolate wastelands. Detroit is up and down and Minnesota always did poorly in the Metrodome. I am not trying to argue that the Sox are more popular by any means, but the numbers don't tell the whole story here.

doublem23
01-12-2011, 11:10 AM
Obviously the Sox are not the draw to the casual fan outside of Chicago, but a lot of the Cubs being so high comes from who is in their division. St. Louis always has over 3 million people. Houston used to get over 3 mil every year, but horrible ineptitude has driven their number down recently. However, Milwaukee has had around 3 mil for each of the last four years. The Sox get Kansas City and Cleveland, both of which are desolate wastelands. Detroit is up and down and Minnesota always did poorly in the Metrodome. I am not trying to argue that the Sox are more popular by any means, but the numbers don't tell the whole story here.

That still doesn't take away from the fact that any Cub game on the road at places like St. Louis, Houston, Cincinnati, Milwaukee, Arizona, etc. they are very, very well represented, probably a combination of both their fans' willingness to travel as well as their national fan base.

kittle42
01-12-2011, 11:23 AM
That still doesn't take away from the fact that any Cub game on the road at places like St. Louis, Houston, Cincinnati, Milwaukee, Arizona, etc. they are very, very well represented, probably a combination of both their fans' willingness to travel as well as their national fan base.

Source citation? Chicago Cubs Fans v. Rational Behavior, 350 F.3d 137 (7th Cir. 2011).

TheOldRoman
01-12-2011, 11:41 AM
That still doesn't take away from the fact that any Cub game on the road at places like St. Louis, Houston, Cincinnati, Milwaukee, Arizona, etc. they are very, very well represented, probably a combination of both their fans' willingness to travel as well as their national fan base.You aren't disagreeing with my point. Yes, the Cubs travel well, and other teams' fans want to see them because "they are the Cubs" for whatever reason. However, if you swap the Cubs and Sox divisions, especially pre-Target Field, the Cubs' numbers wouldn't look nearly as good. St. Louis and Houston (when the team is respectable) are going to be at close to 3 million in attendance every year whether or not they play the Cubs once. I will concede that a decent portion of the Brewers' attendance comes from the 9 Cub games a season, but of late they have also drawn more than anyone in the ALC sans 2010 Minnesota.

voodoochile
01-12-2011, 12:35 PM
And for every 1 of them leaving, there's about 5 more thrilled ****less to get the opportunity to buy tickets.

I think they are going to start to struggle more attendance-wise in coming years unless they start to win consistently. Some of the mystique of Wrigley Field is gone as they've changed some of the Holy Shrine image to "baseball park" with the addition of more advertising and comments made. They will always draw well but the days of 90% of the season being sold out the first day tickets go on sale are coming to an end.

Marketing matters - more so when the product itself sucks. They are changing the brand image and not for the better, IMO so they will have to improve the product to hold on to their customers.

SI1020
01-12-2011, 12:57 PM
Many of the Cub fans you see at road games are expatriate Chicagoans. It's similar to the situation in the NFL with Steeler fans at their road games. The movement to the sun belt is real and has been going on for over two generations. I'm not negating the fact that WGN has helped create a nationwide fan base for the Cubs. That is also part of the equation. I should also add road trippers that go to games in Milwaukee, St. Louis, and Cincinnati.

DumpJerry
01-12-2011, 01:10 PM
Really, you should be held to the same standard. Find me some data which shows that Cubs fans travel from Chicago more frequently than the fans of other teams, and that the great percentage of Cubs fans at opposing parks are made up of said travelers.
You're the one who made the assertion, the burden of proof is on you, not the responding party.

kittle42
01-12-2011, 01:18 PM
You're the one who made the assertion, the burden of proof is on you, not the responding party.

Then we should just both admit it's our opinion. Neither of us will find numbers to back any of this without conducting surveys.

gogosox675
01-12-2011, 01:39 PM
****ing WGN in the '80s.

Yep. My parents are sports fans and have had cable since the eighties. The 1984 season in particular got them hooked on the Cubs. It was something to watch after getting off work in the daytime and at night when the Cubs were on the road and all the TV shows were reruns. To this day, it's on in our living room if they are playing. A lot of people down here are the same way. WGN and, to a lesser extent, TBS changed the way baseball was perceived in southern Indiana.

DumpJerry
01-12-2011, 01:47 PM
Then we should just both admit it's our opinion. Neither of us will find numbers to back any of this without conducting surveys.
You couched your statement in factual assertions, not as opinion.

kittle42
01-12-2011, 01:57 PM
You couched your statement in factual assertions, not as opinion.

Then I should have cited my vast and immense knowledge of all things as a source!

doublem23
01-12-2011, 02:04 PM
You couched your statement in factual assertions, not as opinion.

You did, as well.

Your "factual" argument is based on your belief that the Cubs get no national media attention which is completely not true. I'm not sure which shows you're watching, but the traditional sports media gives the Cubs a lot of air time, maybe not quite the same as the Yankees or Red Sox, but way more than you're average MLB team. That argument is just as much an opinion as any, unless you have hard stats to back your claim that they get only average media coverage.

At any rate, though there's no way to prove or disprove where Cub fans are coming from at road games, there is proof out there that the Cubs have an enormous national following, both from traditional public opinion firms like Harris Interactive (http://www.seathound.com/news/2010/07/2010-most-popular-baseball-teams-harris-interactive-poll/) or less formal, but maybe equally important, social media presence (http://www.adamsherk.com/social-media/most-popular-mlb-teams-twitter-and-facebook/).

kittle42
01-12-2011, 02:52 PM
At any rate, though there's no way to prove or disprove where Cub fans are coming from at road games, there is proof out there that the Cubs have an enormous national following, both from traditional public opinion firms like Harris Interactive (http://www.seathound.com/news/2010/07/2010-most-popular-baseball-teams-harris-interactive-poll/) or less formal, but maybe equally important, social media presence (http://www.adamsherk.com/social-media/most-popular-mlb-teams-twitter-and-facebook/).

The notion that people from Chicago are traveling in greater numbers than all other teams, to all these venues, causing increased numbers of Cub fans, seems a lot more far-fetched to me than the idea that people already living in the towns in which the Cubs visit want to see them because they are the Cubs.

While it is certainly some combination of travelers and people who live there already, the latter most certainly have to outnumber the former, probably by a good deal except in Milwaukee and StL.

doublem23
01-12-2011, 03:18 PM
While it is certainly some combination of travelers and people who live there already, the latter most certainly have to outnumber the former, probably by a good deal except in Milwaukee and StL.

Yeah, my mom is one of those Cub fans who does travel from Chicago, though never too far (furthest trip was to Pittsburgh) and never too often (usually one weekend per year) and she has said everytime she talks to some other Cub fans in attendance and according to her almost 90% of the time, the Cub fans are either displaced Chicagoans living in or near that town or have no ties to Chicago but became Cub fans because of WGN.

Frater Perdurabo
01-12-2011, 08:20 PM
I know the Sox are not a "national draw," but White Sox road attendance numbers are due in some measure to the unbalanced schedule causing the Sox to play so many road games in the other "small market" AL Central cities. Kansas City was 25th in home attendance and Cleveland was 30th.

RadioheadRocks
01-12-2011, 08:25 PM
I also think some adjustments to interleague scheduling may help. I mean how many times can we keep road tripping to Pittsburgh and Cincinnati? Meanwhile I've been wanting to see the Sox play some interleague in the new Busch Stadium and so far that's apparently not happening :(:

IlliniSox4Life
01-13-2011, 02:00 AM
It's befuddling because it is simply not true. ESPN no longer gives them top billing, I don't see them more coverage than any other team not named Yankees or Red Sox from the national media, so I say this alleged widespread popularity is an urban myth.

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/official_info/broadcasts/national.jsp
2011 MLB planned National Broadcasts


Team- 2011 National Games 2010 Winning Pctg (*Playoff Appearance)

Phillies - 18 (.599)*
Yankees - 18 (.586)*
Reds - 17 (.562)*
Red Sox - 16 (.549)
Cardinals - 15 (.531)
Giants - 14 (.568)*
Chicago Cubs- 13 (.463)
Braves - 13 (.562)*
Mets - 13 (.488)
Twins - 12 (.580)*
Tigers - 11 (.5)
Rays - 11 (.593)*
Dodgers - 11 (.494)
Rangers - 10 (.556)*
White Sox- 9 (.543)
Angels - 7 (.494)
Rockies - 5 (.512)
Athletics - 3 (.5)
Padres - 3 (.556)
Mariners - 2
Orioles - 2
Astros - 1 (.469)
Diamondbacks - 1
Brewers- 1 (.475)
Blue Jays - 0 (.525)
Indians - 0
Marlins - 0 (.494)
Nationals - 0
Pirates - 0
Royals - 0

Only teams below .500 with more than 2 National broadcasts - Dodgers, Angels, Mets, Cubs
Of them, the Cubs had a significantly worse record (12 games under 500 vs. 4, 2 and 2), are in a smaller market than LA or NY.
The Cubs have as many or more national games than 14 teams that had a better 2010 record than them, including 4 that were playoff teams.

It seems pretty damn obvious to me the Cubs get more coverage from the national media for little to no reason.

Mohoney
01-13-2011, 03:13 AM
Let's say the Cubs were to return to levels of horrendous results on-field so as to put them on par with the Royals or Pirates of the last 10-15 years. How long would it take ticket sales and fan interest to plummet accordingly?

Let's put it this way - how many straight seasons of 5th-6th place NL Central finishes would it take?

3 or 4 seasons? Just an arbitrary guess.

DumpJerry
01-13-2011, 07:21 AM
http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/official_info/broadcasts/national.jsp
2011 MLB planned National Broadcasts


Team- 2011 National Games 2010 Winning Pctg (*Playoff Appearance)

Phillies - 18 (.599)*
Yankees - 18 (.586)*
Reds - 17 (.562)*
Red Sox - 16 (.549)
Cardinals - 15 (.531)
Giants - 14 (.568)*
Chicago Cubs- 13 (.463)
Braves - 13 (.562)*
Mets - 13 (.488)
Twins - 12 (.580)*
Tigers - 11 (.5)
Rays - 11 (.593)*
Dodgers - 11 (.494)
Rangers - 10 (.556)*
White Sox- 9 (.543)
Angels - 7 (.494)
Rockies - 5 (.512)
Athletics - 3 (.5)
Padres - 3 (.556)
Mariners - 2
Orioles - 2
Astros - 1 (.469)
Diamondbacks - 1
Brewers- 1 (.475)
Blue Jays - 0 (.525)
Indians - 0
Marlins - 0 (.494)
Nationals - 0
Pirates - 0
Royals - 0

Only teams below .500 with more than 2 National broadcasts - Dodgers, Angels, Mets, Cubs
Of them, the Cubs had a significantly worse record (12 games under 500 vs. 4, 2 and 2), are in a smaller market than LA or NY.
The Cubs have as many or more national games than 14 teams that had a better 2010 record than them, including 4 that were playoff teams.

It seems pretty damn obvious to me the Cubs get more coverage from the national media for little to no reason.
Did you see this (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=125500)? Only one Sunday night game, that's the main game ESPN carries.

ewokpelts
01-13-2011, 07:26 AM
crain's weighs in:
http://www.chicagobusiness.com/section/blogs?blogID=business-of-sports&plckController=Blog&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&uid=f5555513-c950-4657-a93a-80db16fdf4ad&plckPostId=Blog:f5555513-c950-4657-a93a-80db16fdf4adPost:1e7c388b-7845-457e-a62e-788450bc6bfd&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest#axzz1AvAfuurs

ewokpelts
01-13-2011, 08:06 AM
more commentary:
http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/chicago-sports-guru/2011/01/cubs-announce-new-bait-and-switch-style-ticket-plan-prices-spike-again.html

DumpJerry
01-13-2011, 08:31 AM
crain's weighs in:
http://www.chicagobusiness.com/section/blogs?blogID=business-of-sports&plckController=Blog&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&uid=f5555513-c950-4657-a93a-80db16fdf4ad&plckPostId=Blog:f5555513-c950-4657-a93a-80db16fdf4adPost:1e7c388b-7845-457e-a62e-788450bc6bfd&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest#axzz1AvAfuurs

more commentary:
http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/chicago-sports-guru/2011/01/cubs-announce-new-bait-and-switch-style-ticket-plan-prices-spike-again.html
Both articles are very whiney. The Cub VP is right, April games count. I would add, however, April games don't count if your objective is to get drunk and pull your shirt off to show off what you have. That is why July and August games are so important.

I was at Hooton's no-no in 1972. It was on my 10th birthday. First rooking to throw one in 62 years.

ewokpelts
01-13-2011, 08:56 AM
Both articles are very whiney. The Cub VP is right, April games count. I would add, however, April games don't count if your objective is to get drunk and pull your shirt off to show off what you have. That is why July and August games are so important.

I was at Hooton's no-no in 1972. It was on my 10th birthday. First rooking to throw one in 62 years.

I think it's more about the fact that the cubs are pushing SO MANY crappy games(a lot of april/may, and some of theme are "prime" games, thuis more expensive) just to get a cubs/sox or yankee game.

Btw, stubhub has $6 bleacher seats for some of these games, and plenty of $5 upper level tix cubs/sox is $60 plus, and yankees are in the 80's range.

The stubhub prices prove the articles, and my point. This "deal" isnt worth it. I can a la carte every game on that package, and sit in different price levels for less than what they are selling NOW on thier site.

If the sox pulled this, there would more acrimony over this. Hell, the sox DID get **** for the 1997 crosstown classic "4 pack" and had to eventually drop it due to bad press.

DumpJerry
01-13-2011, 08:59 AM
The bottom line: Cub fans who don't like the package won't buy it. Those who are not bothered by it, will buy it. I don't see why there needs to be some much handwringing over it unless the reporters in the media who are criticizing are in the group of Cub fans of who don't like it.

Nowhere have I seen buying the plan is a requirement for all Cub fans. But it is a great way to screw over scalpers and brokers who want to max out in their inventory of Yankee and Sox games.

ewokpelts
01-13-2011, 09:00 AM
meanwhile....

love the opprotunists...

http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/tix/2153851890.html

the presale link was sent to my 4 times and it didnt have a code requirement.

ewokpelts
01-13-2011, 09:05 AM
The bottom line: Cub fans who don't like the package won't buy it. Those who are not bothered by it, will buy it. I don't see why there needs to be some much handwringing over it unless the reporters in the media who are criticizing are in the group of Cub fans of who don't like it.

Nowhere have I seen buying the plan is a requirement for all Cub fans. But it is a great way to screw over scalpers and brokers who want to max out in their inventory of Yankee and Sox games.i think the cubs play off the "gotta get them now" mentaility that guys like johnny mccub fostered in more prosperous times. And i also think cubs fans are wising up to the cubs in general, and tommy boy ricketts in particular.

fox23
01-13-2011, 09:56 AM
The bottom line: Cub fans who don't like the package won't buy it. Those who are not bothered by it, will buy it. I don't see why there needs to be some much handwringing over it unless the reporters in the media who are criticizing are in the group of Cub fans of who don't like it.

Nowhere have I seen buying the plan is a requirement for all Cub fans. But it is a great way to screw over scalpers and brokers who want to max out in their inventory of Yankee and Sox games.

Exactly! If the Sox could get away with forcing people to buy a ton of ****ty April games in order to get a Cubs/Sox ticket, you better believe they would! And everyone over here would be singing for joy because it would help the Sox make their mythical budget and get us better players.

ewokpelts
01-13-2011, 10:00 AM
Exactly! If the Sox could get away with forcing people to buy a ton of ****ty April games in order to get a Cubs/Sox ticket, you better believe they would! And everyone over here would be singing for joy because it would help the Sox make their mythical budget and get us better players.you can buy the ozzie plan right now and get lower level for cubs/sox. and it only "forces" you to buy two paril games, and one of them is opening day. oh, and you'll be allowed to buy more cub games in a nanozzie plan holder-only presale

Sox have a better offering, and it's nowhere near sold out.

fox23
01-13-2011, 10:11 AM
you can buy the ozzie plan right now and get lower level for cubs/sox. and it only "forces" you to buy two paril games, and one of them is opening day. oh, and you'll be allowed to buy more cub games in a nanozzie plan holder-only presale

Sox have a better offering, and it's nowhere near sold out.

Yes, because the Sox are nowhere near as popular as the Cubs. My point is the Sox would do the exact same thing if they could. What's yours?

ewokpelts
01-13-2011, 11:03 AM
Yes, because the Sox are nowhere near as popular as the Cubs. My point is the Sox would do the exact same thing if they could. What's yours?sox had that moment. in 2006. they still honored the FREE kids' club, student achiever program(free tix for straight a's or perfect attendance), 1/2 off mondays, senior discount on day games, teacher's nights(75% off tix) AND the ozzie plan. which still included a playoff option.

in fact the ozzie plan didnt change at all from 2005 to 2006, and it sold out.

they did the same things they would have done if the team didnt win the ws. cubs fleece their fans regardles sof the outcome

kittle42
01-13-2011, 12:36 PM
sox had that moment. in 2006. they still honored the FREE kids' club, student achiever program(free tix for straight a's or perfect attendance), 1/2 off mondays, senior discount on day games, teacher's nights(75% off tix) AND the ozzie plan. which still included a playoff option.

in fact the ozzie plan didnt change at all from 2005 to 2006, and it sold out.

they did the same things they would have done if the team didnt win the ws. cubs fleece their fans regardles sof the outcome

Ugh. The Cubs do it because they can. It's the same thing as raising ticket prices, adding more premium pricing, selling seat licenses in football, etc. If you can get more money out of fans because your business allows for it, you do it. It's business.

Are we supposed to take pride as a fanbase that our team doesn't screw its fans as much as another when it comes to 13-game ticket plans? Let's hold onto that Better Ticket Plan Championship!

fox23
01-13-2011, 02:03 PM
sox had that moment. in 2006. they still honored the FREE kids' club, student achiever program(free tix for straight a's or perfect attendance), 1/2 off mondays, senior discount on day games, teacher's nights(75% off tix) AND the ozzie plan. which still included a playoff option.

in fact the ozzie plan didnt change at all from 2005 to 2006, and it sold out.

they did the same things they would have done if the team didnt win the ws. cubs fleece their fans regardles sof the outcome

I'll have to disagree. The Sox did sell out a majority of their weekend games that year, but they certainly weren't anywhere close to the level of the Cubs in terms of demand.

RedHeadPaleHoser
01-13-2011, 02:15 PM
Let's hold onto that Better Ticket Plan Championship!

Maybe that's what the BP cup REALLY stands for. :cool:

Hitmen77
01-13-2011, 03:16 PM
Did you see this (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=125500)? Only one Sunday night game, that's the main game ESPN carries.

That other list is only for Sunday night games in the first half of the season. ESPN also airs games on some other nights of the week plus the list above appears to be the list of 2011 national games from both ESPN and FOX. TBS and MLB Network do not appear to be included (maybe they haven't released their schedules yet).

Of the 9 Sox games for the list above, only 2 are on ESPN.....and both of those games are against the Yankees. They're both on Mondays, so they wouldn't have been included in a "sunday night" list.

ewokpelts
01-13-2011, 04:25 PM
I'll have to disagree. The Sox did sell out a majority of their weekend games that year, but they certainly weren't anywhere close to the level of the Cubs in terms of demand.sox had 58 sellouts that year out of 81 home dates. and total PAID attendance was 40 thousand or so short of 3 million. but the attendance figures dosent includes all the programs i mentioned that were maintained in 2006.

fox23
01-13-2011, 05:22 PM
sox had 58 sellouts that year out of 81 home dates. and total PAID attendance was 40 thousand or so short of 3 million. but the attendance figures dosent includes all the programs i mentioned that were maintained in 2006.

Yup, and even in their best year of all time, the Cubs still outdrew them by 2,500 a game. It isn't even close which team is more popular and can afford to bleed their fans dry. Maybe the Sox kept those plans because they realized that if they didn't fewer fans would go?

DumpJerry
01-13-2011, 05:46 PM
You know what.....
:whocares
These are Cub tickets, we spend our $$$$ on the Good Guys.

IlliniSox4Life
01-13-2011, 06:44 PM
Did you see this (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=125500)? Only one Sunday night game, that's the main game ESPN carries.

Here's the breakdown of THAT list by team:
4- Boston
3- Yankees
2- San Fran
2- Cincy
2- Philly
2- Atlanta
1- Cubs
1- Dodgers
1- Rangers
1- St. Louis
1- Rays
0- Everyone else

So despite finishing 2010 with a better record than only 7 teams, the Cubs get more Sunday night games than 19 teams (including the Twins who were a playoff team).
There's only 7 teams with more Sunday night games than the Cubs when there were 23 teams with more wins.
The only teams with Sunday night games that were under .500 are the Dodgers, Mets, and Cubs. Dodgers and Mets were 2 and 4 games under .500 and play in bigger markets while the Cubs were 12 games under .500

Again, it still seems to me like ESPN is favoring the Cubs.

And that previous list was national media. You contended that "I don't see them more coverage than any other team not named Yankees or Red Sox from the national media". That's just wrong.

fox23
01-13-2011, 08:09 PM
You know what.....
:whocares
These are Cub tickets, we spend our $$$$ on the Good Guys.

Well it is January so there's not a whole lot to talk about...sorry, we can all go back to talking about free agents we aren't going to get, why Edwin Jackson is the devil reborn, and all things Boston.

TommyJohn
01-13-2011, 09:09 PM
You know what.....
:whocares
These are Cub tickets, we spend our $$$$ on the Good Guys.

Well it is January so there's not a whole lot to talk about...sorry, we can all go back to talking about free agents we aren't going to get, why Edwin Jackson is the devil reborn, and all things Boston.

Yeah, Dump, what's wrong with you? Stop raining on our Cub-Sox pissing matches.

RadioheadRocks
01-13-2011, 10:58 PM
Wow Gary Coleman sure is packing some power from the Hereafter. :tongue:

DumpJerry
01-14-2011, 07:35 AM
Well it is January so there's not a whole lot to talk about...sorry, we can all go back to talking about free agents we aren't going to get, why Edwin Jackson is the devil reborn, and all things Boston.

Yeah, Dump, what's wrong with you? Stop raining on our Cub-Sox pissing matches.
Well, I was thinking of the major issue of the day: the weather. It seems that this is the first winter in recorded history where it has been cold and snowy in Chicago. I also hear Boston had some light flurries in the past month.

Hitmen77
01-14-2011, 08:22 AM
Yeah, Dump, what's wrong with you? Stop raining on our Cub-Sox pissing matches.

What do you mean? We only have two current threads (here and in the Clubhouse (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=125379&page=6))where we're arguing over the Cubs' popularity vs. the Sox. That's not enough - we need one in the Parking Lot, Talking Baseball, and Minor Observations too.