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View Full Version : Cubs Acquire Garza


DirtySox
01-07-2011, 10:56 AM
For Archer, Lee, Guyer, Chirinos, and Fuld.

http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/news/story?id=5998431&campaign=rss&source=CHICAGOHeadlines

Really like this haul for the Rays. For context, if you go by BA's rankings the Cubs just traded away their number 1, 4, 10, and 16th best prospects from a relatively deep farm system. Fuld would be considered a throw-in.

DirtySox
01-07-2011, 11:01 AM
The prospects going back to Tampa still aren't entirely official, but it seems Archer and Lee are definitely in the package.

Anyhow, the NL Central certainly becomes more interesting. Cards, Reds, Brewers, and Cubs, all will be competitive.

gobears1987
01-07-2011, 11:07 AM
I think this is more proof that Ricketts just doesn't get it. His team is saddled with too many bad contracts to contend now. He ends up mortgaging his team for Garza when they can't contend. Now is the time the Cubs should be developing young talent to go along with Castro and Colvin. If they were smart, they could've been a good team again when Fukudome, Soriano, etc were gone and they didn't have to be saddled by those deals.

Oh and What's the Score?

Marqhead
01-07-2011, 11:09 AM
Hooray for fantasy implications!

russ99
01-07-2011, 11:20 AM
Wow. The Cubs are dumber than I thought.

Who do they deal out of the rotation now? Zambozo?

DirtySox
01-07-2011, 11:24 AM
Wow. The Cubs are dumber than I thought.

Who do they deal out of the rotation now? Zambozo?

They shouldn't be moving anyone. Garza/Zambrano/Dempster/Wells could be a a good to great top 4, with a 5th and other options in Cashner/Gorzelanny/Silva. It's definitely a "win now" move, but many seem to think the Cubs overpaid.

VenturaFan23
01-07-2011, 11:25 AM
Isn't Garza known for being a hothead like a Zambrano-lite? This should be good.

gobears1987
01-07-2011, 11:26 AM
Isn't Garza known for being a hothead like a Zambrano-lite? This should be good.

A Cub fan friend of mine (who actually understands baseball unlike most of his fellow fans) predicted it will be Zambrano meltdown part II on his FB feed.

DirtySox
01-07-2011, 11:27 AM
Cubs are receiving Fernando Perez (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/perezfe01.shtml) from Tampa as well. Nothing significant though.

cws05champ
01-07-2011, 11:48 AM
Obligatory Dave Kaplan poll which will be posted on his blog soon in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1:

Who know has a better rotation, the Cubs or Sox?


This is a good move for the Cubs because even though they may not win this year Garza is still under control for several years when some of their farm may be ready and some of the bad contracts are gone.

sullythered
01-07-2011, 12:00 PM
Wow, that's a lot to give up for a "pretty good" pitcher.

Side note: baseball-reference lists the most similar player to Matt Garza through his current age as Kip Wells.

DirtySox
01-07-2011, 12:18 PM
Hooray for fantasy implications!

Helli?

JB98
01-07-2011, 12:37 PM
This probably takes the Cubs from being a 75-win team to a 79-win team.

It helps them in the short run, but I can't see them being any better than the third best team in their division this year.

chisox616
01-07-2011, 12:41 PM
Why wouldn't this move put the Cubs in contention?

Honestly, the NL Central just isn't good. This just put them on par with everyone else.

palehozenychicty
01-07-2011, 12:55 PM
This probably takes the Cubs from being a 75-win team to a 79-win team.

It helps them in the short run, but I can't see them being any better than the third best team in their division this year.

Exactly. Reds, Cardinals, and Brew Crew are still better in my mind.

JB98
01-07-2011, 12:55 PM
Why wouldn't this move put the Cubs in contention?

Honestly, the NL Central just isn't good. This just put them on par with everyone else.

Take another look at the rosters for Cincinnati, St. Louis and Milwaukee.

Also, don't believe the hype on Zambrano and Dempster. The Cubs still have the fourth-best rotation in the division.

Their offense is nothing to write home about either. Soriano and Ramirez aren't the players they were three years ago.

JermaineDye05
01-07-2011, 01:01 PM
Good pickup for the Cubs.

Marqhead
01-07-2011, 01:40 PM
Helli?

Zuh?

Banix12
01-07-2011, 01:41 PM
There is enough talent in that lineup to compete next year provided a few players in the lineup have bounce back seasons, which while not super likely, is not impossible.

On paper though, definitely still lagging behind the cream of that division. A lot more has to go right for them to win the division than the other teams.

Cubs probably overpaid, but they weren't going to start a youth movement anytime soon. Most of their best prospects either aren't ready or are blocked at the major league level by players too expensive to move. For better or for worse, they are stuck as a aging, overpaid team for the next few years so they might as well try to go for it as best they can and hope they get a little lucky.

DirtySox
01-07-2011, 02:56 PM
Zuh?

Hellickson's fantasy value supposedly is heightened now that a rotation spot is open for him.

WhiteSox5187
01-07-2011, 03:02 PM
Well, this sort of helps the Cubs and I think Garza will be much better in the NL, but they gave up a lot of talent to get this guy and are still a long way's off from contending and are still at best a third place team. The Cubs really are aimless right now, they have no idea what they should do and I wouldn't be shocked to see them try to buy another World Series in the next two years or so and have another short window to try to win it.

Foulke You
01-07-2011, 03:26 PM
Wow, that's a lot to give up for a "pretty good" pitcher.

Side note: baseball-reference lists the most similar player to Matt Garza through his current age as Kip Wells.
Don't tell that to Bruce "LeVine-Line". When he announced the trade this morning on AM1000, he was hyping Garza as being BETTER than Zack Grienke. Bruce's reason for this line of thinking is that Garza has had more wins in the last few years and has won some postseason games. When Silverman brought up that Grienke plays for the Royals while Garza played for the contending Rays, Levine brushed it off and stated that Grienke wasn't even the best pitcher on the Royals last year (Bruce conveniently ignored his Cy Young year) and that the Cubs feel like they got the better pitcher than the Brewers did.

kittle42
01-07-2011, 03:35 PM
Don't tell that to Bruce "LeVine-Line". When he announced the trade this morning on AM1000, he was hyping Garza as being BETTER than Zack Grienke. Bruce's reason for this line of thinking is that Garza has had more wins in the last few years and has won some postseason games.

TDog = Bruce Levine?

NLaloosh
01-07-2011, 03:37 PM
I think that Garza is a really good pitcher that will be even better in the NL. I think the flubs made a nice deal for themselves and didn't give up too much. They can now compete in their division which I don't think they could have before.

It will be an interesting 4 team race this year in the NL Central.

WhiteSox5187
01-07-2011, 03:48 PM
I think that Garza is a really good pitcher that will be even better in the NL. I think the flubs made a nice deal for themselves and didn't give up too much. They can now compete in their division which I don't think they could have before.

It will be an interesting 4 team race this year in the NL Central.

In terms of talent I think the Cubs are a distant fourth in the NL Central. St. Louis, Cincinnati and Milwaukee all have better pitching and better lineups. The Cubs are better than only Houston and Pittsburgh on paper, but the games aren't played on paper. Still, I think the Cubs right now have the makings of a third place team at best.

Marqhead
01-07-2011, 03:50 PM
Hellickson's fantasy value supposedly is heightened now that a rotation spot is open for him.

Ahhh that one flew over my head. As a Garza owner, I'm happy about the transition from the AL East to NL Central.

Lip Man 1
01-07-2011, 03:56 PM
At least Phil Rogers is consistent. Like when the White Sox traded prospects he thinks this is a risk move by the Cubs because of what they gave up. He also said it will be 18 months before anybody can see who got the better of the deal.

Phil loves "prospects" doesn't he?

Lip

Foulke You
01-07-2011, 04:00 PM
I think that Garza is a really good pitcher that will be even better in the NL. I think the flubs made a nice deal for themselves and didn't give up too much. They can now compete in their division which I don't think they could have before.

It will be an interesting 4 team race this year in the NL Central.
I think it is a good move for them too. After pitching the AL East for the last few years, Garza should get about 15 wins if the Cubs score any runs for him (which is a big IF). I still think the Cards, Reds, and Brewers will be better though. However, as a couple other posters said, if they get some bounce back years from guys like Zambrano, Pena, and Ramirez, they *could* be competitive in the NL Central. I think the media talk of Garza being better than Grienke is just silly though.

hi im skot
01-07-2011, 04:08 PM
TDog = Bruce Levine?

Awesome.

bestkosher
01-07-2011, 04:17 PM
I think Matt Garza will be about equal to Ted Lilly when he was with the Cubs. He will average about 15 wins and have a bit or resurregnce.

russ99
01-07-2011, 04:27 PM
The issue is with reduced payroll, can they afford all of Dempster, Zambrano, Garza, Silva and Wells/Cashner/Gorzellany.

Unless the Ricketts' changed their mind payroll wise, I'd expect either Silva or Zambrano to be dealt.

NLaloosh
01-07-2011, 04:29 PM
Garza is clearly not better than Greinke. However, he does give the cubs a good rotation. I didn't say they are favorites to win the division. I just said they will be competitive now.

All of the teams in that division are flawed. Brewers look good but they have no depth and not much veteran leadership. The Cards lineup is weak and bullpen so so. The Reds are good but still young and need another hitter.

VMSNS
01-07-2011, 04:59 PM
I really don't understand this move from the Cubs viewpoint. Ever since Ricketts bought the Cubs, he's done nothing but preach about how important it is to draft and develop young talent through the farm system, but now he lets Hendry turn around and deal all the best prospects in their system not named Vitters or Jackson. Some may argue that the haul the Rays got may not contain any impact players, but I'd put my faith in the Rays scouting department on this one, since they are considered one of the best in the league in terms of scouting and farm system. Everything I've read about Chirinos, Archer, and Lee indicates that they are pretty good prospects, and by far the best in the Cubs system (haven't heard much about that other kid).

And let's, not forget that the Cubs probably won't have a real shot to be competitive until they get some of those horrendous contracts off the books (Fukodome, Zambrano, Soriano, Ramirez), which seems to be about two years from now. This just seems like a poorly thought out, aimless move to me. Don't get me wrong, Garza is a great young pitcher who will easily be the #1 on their staff, but why they would empty their farm system for him during a rebuilding process is beyond me.

Then, there's also the issue of Garza himself. Like I said, he's definitely a good pitcher, but the guy is like a mini-Zambrano out there at times. Just a few years ago, I remember hearing lots of reports of him cracking under pressure, not being able to deal with the crowd noise, and being prone to fiery temper tantrums. I remember just last season (or was it 2009?) when the Sox faced Garza during a summer game, he got shelled by us and was pulled after 3 or 4 innings. He went into the dugout and paced back and forth screaming at himself and Rays pitching coach Jim Hickey, until it got so out of hand that Hickey had to grab him and pull him out of the dugout and into the visitors clubhouse. Garza and Zambrano in the same lineup could lead to potential disaster.

I don't usually believe in teams "winning" trades, since I think that it's possible for both teams to benefit from an exchange of players (what a concept), but I think in this case, I'd probably say the Rays won this trade fairly easily.

Brian26
01-07-2011, 08:32 PM
However, he does give the cubs a good rotation.

Garza quickly becomes their number two starter, but the rest of that rotation is a mess. I expect Silva to come back down to earth, and Dempster is on the decline.

johnnyg83
01-07-2011, 09:31 PM
I like Garza's stuff and I think he'll do well with the AL to NL adjustment.

But it seems like a lot for him (not knowing the prospects other than there system rankings), but Hendry probably did a heck of a sales job on this, because he doesn't have the time to wait for those kids to have any effect on his gig.

tstrike2000
01-07-2011, 10:11 PM
I don't think this is particularly a good trade for the Cubs. Yeah, Garza helps the rotation, but with the Cubs giving up their #1 pitching prospect, along with the upside of Guyer and Chirinos, it doesn't make that much sense, IMO.

Red Barchetta
01-08-2011, 03:00 PM
On the flipside and living in Sarasota, FL., the Rays fans are upset that the organization is getting rid of all the fan favorites. You know, all 15,000 die-hards that show up to the games! :wink:

I'm a proud SOX fan in SW Florida and I go to more Rays games each season than the average Rays "fan". :rolleyes:

I keep telling them, that they are going to lose this team to Montreal if they don't figure out how to draw fans on a consistent basis in or out of Tropicana/St. Pete. TV ratings alone won't keep the team in Tampa Bay.

JermaineDye05
01-08-2011, 08:17 PM
Cubs are receiving Fernando Perez (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/perezfe01.shtml) from Tampa as well. Nothing significant though.

Hopefully his financial troubles have gotten better.

xQjt0Xzb5F8

Hunker down
01-09-2011, 07:34 AM
Nice pickup by the Cubs. Prospects are prospects. Garza moving to the National League should help him. He’s a possible 15 game winner for a Cub team that doesn’t look like they have a plan (Which I’m good with). Castro & Colvin look like they can play, but let’s see what they can do playing a 162 game schedule first.
This trade will not keep me from wishing my Cub friends ‘Happy 103rd Anniversary’ in October.

Foulke You
01-10-2011, 02:13 PM
Just a few years ago, I remember hearing lots of reports of him cracking under pressure, not being able to deal with the crowd noise, and being prone to fiery temper tantrums.
I distinctly remember Garza not being able to deal with the crowd noise during Game 3 of the 2008 ALDS at US Cellular Field. The cameras showed that after the 2nd or 3rd inning, he had stuffed cotton into his ears to block up the sound.

guillensdisciple
01-10-2011, 02:27 PM
Is he the guy that takes the Cubs to the world series?

eriqjaffe
01-10-2011, 02:33 PM
Is he the guy that takes the Cubs to the world series?Maybe, does he have a big car?

hi im skot
01-10-2011, 02:52 PM
Maybe, does he have a big car?

http://www.layitlow.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/rimshot.gif

g0g0
01-11-2011, 08:55 AM
I'm happy with the pick-up. Another solid starter who'll benefit from switching to the NL and Central in particular. As mentioned, the Cubs farm is deep right now. Cubbies were only 16 back after a horrendous season, and 2 back from 3rd place. If they bounce back at all, then I can see them being in contention.