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View Full Version : Who is your favorite "bad" Sox player of all time?


soltrain21
12-20-2010, 06:23 PM
Not bad in the "this player is so awful" sense, because we hate those players (Rick White) You know, the player that no one else really liked or someone that wasn't particularly good, but you loved them for some reason or another.

I'm going with McKay Christensen. Probably because I could hit really well with him in a Playstation game back in the day.

mzh
12-20-2010, 06:41 PM
Something about Ben Davis always rung with me. He was by no means whatsoever a competent professional baseball player, but dammit he had hustle :D:

thomas35forever
12-20-2010, 06:51 PM
Chris Snopek? I dunno. Just because.

BNLSox
12-20-2010, 06:51 PM
Lyle Mouton. I have his autograph on my mitt.

TommyJohn
12-20-2010, 07:10 PM
Claudell Washington. I was a kid and I guess I mistook the things he did in the field for hustle and desire.

WhiteSox5187
12-20-2010, 07:15 PM
There are a lot, I really like Brent Lillibridge who isn't exactly setting the world on fire.

Madvora
12-20-2010, 07:33 PM
Mike Huff without a doubt. Looking at his stats, he really wasn't good, but for some reason I really liked the guy. I think he was a pretty good fielder.
He played 80 games with Toronto in 1994 and hit .304.

SephClone89
12-20-2010, 07:39 PM
I used to ****ing love Craig Wilson as a kid.

konerko 14
12-20-2010, 07:54 PM
Brent Lillibridge, with Nick Masset a close second.

HomeFish
12-20-2010, 07:58 PM
Bob Howry in 1999-2001
Damaso Marte in 2004/early 2005
Juan Uribe
Dayan Viciedo
Timo Perez

D'Angelo Jimenez

Daver
12-20-2010, 08:07 PM
Spanky
Josh Paul
Julio Ramirez
Mike Porzio
Jason Dalscerro

Mingo
12-20-2010, 08:11 PM
Claudell Washington. I was a kid and I guess I mistook the things he did in the field for hustle and desire.

"Washington slept Here"

my favorite fan sign from the old ballpark.

Konerko05
12-20-2010, 08:37 PM
Greg Norton.

Moses_Scurry
12-20-2010, 08:39 PM
Joey Cora and Craig Grebeck

Nelfox02
12-20-2010, 09:13 PM
Wise........history saving catch.

Bucky F. Dent
12-20-2010, 09:14 PM
Danny Richar. He tossed my son a baseball during batting practice at Victory Field in Indpls.

Frater Perdurabo
12-20-2010, 09:19 PM
BA
Jeff Liefer
Joe Borchard

hi im skot
12-20-2010, 09:37 PM
Lyle Mouton. I have his autograph on my mitt.

There are a lot, I really like Brent Lillibridge who isn't exactly setting the world on fire.

These are my choices, with some love for Craig Grebeck and Dave Martinez as well.

MarkZ35
12-20-2010, 10:10 PM
Greg Norton
D'angelo Jimenez
Rob Mackowiak

kittle42
12-20-2010, 10:19 PM
Dave Gallagher

Herbert Perry

Rikirk
12-20-2010, 10:27 PM
Greg Luzinski, Chet Lemon, Ron Kittle
I dont remember if they were bad or good...I liked these players.

palehosepub
12-20-2010, 10:33 PM
Another vote for Norton, he had tough shoes to fill after Robin and I remember reading the story of his childhood in the Tribune - he went through some really rough stuff...

As a kid it was "Bee Bee" Richard because, well, I just loved the name Bee Bee and because may dad would get so mad at watching Bee Bee kicking the ball around...

MeteorsSox4367
12-20-2010, 10:36 PM
Tom Egan. First favorite White Sox.

As for more current guys, I thought Jeff Abbott was going to be pretty damn good. I remember him getting an early-season game-winner against the Twins.

ShooterMcGavin
12-20-2010, 10:54 PM
Dave Gallagher

Herbert Perry

The "Milkman" was good! He was a tough out and he made the most out of every at bat.

TornLabrum
12-20-2010, 10:55 PM
Gail Hopkins, Jim Willoughby, Bill Allman, Michael Huff, Greg Pryor, Alan Bannister, Danny Cater.

ChiSoxGal85
12-20-2010, 11:09 PM
I remember liking Alan Bannister for some reason...can't recall why though. Also, the short guy...Harry Chappas? I think that was his name.

ShooterMcGavin
12-20-2010, 11:22 PM
Danny Wright (thought he could be a hard-throwing #3 starter)

Joe Borchard (mostly because I thought 5.3 million would have resulted in a switch-hitting power house)

Arnie Munoz (because I thought he would have been at minimum a solid back-of-the-rotation, inexpensive starter; something we really needed at the time)

Ryan Sweeney (because I liked his potential)

Charlie Haegar (because I liked his minor league career)

HarryChappas
12-20-2010, 11:31 PM
officer Karkovice or Brian downing before the sox traded him and he went on the juice

Shoeless
12-20-2010, 11:34 PM
Josh Fields
Royce Clayton
Brian Anderson

monkeypants
12-20-2010, 11:53 PM
Melido Perez. Pitched an unofficial no-hitter in 1990 which was my most favorite Sox year after 2005.

PalehosePlanet
12-20-2010, 11:58 PM
Wayne Nordhagen, Jim Morrison, Vance Law, Gary Redus, Eric King, "Do it all" Joe Hall.

All were okay type players, but certainly didn't warrant the attention I gave them back in the day.

chisoxlove
12-21-2010, 12:03 AM
Mike Caruso - Scrappy-ass rookie.
Charles Johnson - After Mid-season trade...bad dude.
Miguel Olivo - I must love catchers.
Ron Karkovice - Catcher + Moustache = YES!

Nellie_Fox
12-21-2010, 12:04 AM
Sammy Esposito.

Rohan
12-21-2010, 12:13 AM
Brian Anderson :whiner:
Willy Harris - Well... he might not be bad but he's certainly not good.

SoxandtheCityTee
12-21-2010, 12:20 AM
Was Davey Martinez bad?

Him, then.

Lamp81
12-21-2010, 12:22 AM
I pull for Alejandro De Aza because I was impressed with the way he played in Spring Training. I also felt that way about Chris Singleton, and was happy that he made the team in 1999.

As for pitchers, I always thought Rocky Biddle would have a decent career. And of course, Dennis Lamp, because he came to my Little League banquet in 1981.

RCWHITESOX
12-21-2010, 12:28 AM
Gail Hopkins
Gerry Janeski
Jay Johnstone Every fly ball was a adventure. Plus he was a little crazy

joebro25
12-21-2010, 12:47 AM
Joe Borchard
Josh Fields
Jorge Fabregas even though he wasn't too bad when he was here, he was an overall lousy ballplayer.

BleacherBandit
12-21-2010, 01:01 AM
Someone earlier in this thread said Juan Uribe. If he should be considered a "bad player" (which he shouldn't), I guess he gets my vote.

MrT27
12-21-2010, 01:14 AM
Jeff Abbott for some reason. Jamie Burke too, I feel never got his chance (hit .333 in his White Sox career, .277 career hitter which isn't great but not bad).

Jitterbug Boy
12-21-2010, 02:13 AM
I like Fred Manrique. Mainly because I got to meet him when I was a kid and he was the most gracious guy ever for an autograph. He played pretty well while he was here (.299 BA before he was traded), but after the trade to bring Scott Fletcher back, he vanished pretty quickly.

MarksBrokenFoot
12-21-2010, 06:22 AM
Brook Fordyce and Norberto Martin. I think I fell in love with Paco after his 1st big league dinger. Grand slam! Didn't matter to me that he only hit 6 more in his entire career.

gobears1987
12-21-2010, 06:45 AM
I'm going with Mark Teahen because I met the guy once and he was just a real all around gentleman and good guy to talk to. I'm also hoping he will stop being a bad player and actually play up to that contract he signed.

parlaycard
12-21-2010, 07:07 AM
Harry Chappas
Wayne Nordhagan
Kevin Bell
Timo Perez
Atlee Hammaker

and my least favorite bad Sox player of all time, no discussion necessary...Nick Swisher

eastchicagosoxfan
12-21-2010, 07:09 AM
John Cangelosi comes to mind. He was a spring training phenom, and was a long shot to earn a roster spot. He ended up doing exactly that. He worked really hard, and it was easy to pull for him.

Madvora
12-21-2010, 07:14 AM
Wayne Nordhagen, Jim Morrison, Vance Law, Gary Redus, Eric King, "Do it all" Joe Hall.

All were okay type players, but certainly didn't warrant the attention I gave them back in the day.

Totally!!! Joe "Do It All" Hall was another one of my favorites. How could I forget.

soxfanatlanta
12-21-2010, 07:15 AM
Harry Chappas
Wayne Nordhagan
Rusty Kuntz

tstrike2000
12-21-2010, 07:21 AM
Tony Graffanino
Greg Norton
Herbert Perry
Jerry Dybzinski
Ron LeFlore

LITTLE NELL
12-21-2010, 07:58 AM
Jungle Jim Rivera
Mike Proly...in 79 was nice enough to let me take a picture of my son and him by the left field bullpen. Got Steve Trout and Harry Caray pictures that same day.
Mark Kotsay (does not deserve all the hate, used the right way like in 09 he's not that bad).

SoxNation05
12-21-2010, 08:02 AM
Tony Graffanino
David Aardsma
McKay Christenson

Never met McKay but Tony and Aardsma were sweeet guys.

asboog
12-21-2010, 08:56 AM
Dave Gallagher.

I don't have a particular reason.

SoxThunder
12-21-2010, 09:28 AM
Norberto "Paco" Martin
Esteban Beltre (had his baseball card)
Warren "The Deacon" Newwwwwwson
Lyle Mouton
Craig Grebeck
Mike Caruso (for his game winning homer to sweep the Cubs at Wrigley)

spawn
12-21-2010, 09:30 AM
DeWayne Wise
Greg Norton
Harry Chappas

wilburaga
12-21-2010, 09:39 AM
No-Neck

LongLiveFisk
12-21-2010, 09:45 AM
I can't say there's one that stands above the rest, but some I appreciated were:

John Cangelosi
Dave Gallagher
Eric Soderholm
Scott Fletcher
Aaron Rowand

And really, are they "bad" or just "less acclaimed"?

soxfanreggie
12-21-2010, 09:59 AM
Mike Caruso - Scrappy-ass rookie.
Charles Johnson - After Mid-season trade...bad dude.
Miguel Olivo - I must love catchers.
Ron Karkovice - Catcher + Moustache = YES!

Office Karkovice bad...? Hmmm...definitely really liked him, but I would have put him more as average.

TomBradley72
12-21-2010, 10:07 AM
Leo Sutherland

ohiosoxfan
12-21-2010, 10:08 AM
Nyls Nyman. . I thought he was going to be a player, good speed and defense, if he could only get on base.

LITTLE NELL
12-21-2010, 10:14 AM
Nyls Nyman. . I thought he was going to be a player, good speed and defense, if he could only get on base.

I remember telling a friend of mine who was a Cub fan that Nyman was a can't miss .300 hitter, I guess I was wrong.

Dan H
12-21-2010, 10:29 AM
Buddy Bradford. He could hit the ball a mile when he hit it, but he couldn't hit it very often.

DeWayne Wise. He said afterward he would through the wall to make that catch.

Carolina Kenny
12-21-2010, 10:47 AM
"Paco" Martin, because his name is Paco.

In the movie "The Three Amigos" Mexican bandit leader El Guapo shoots one of his bandits off a roof, and says its only "Paco".

Lorenzo Barcelo
12-21-2010, 10:50 AM
Terry Leach and Chad Bradford for obvious reasons.

soxnut1018
12-21-2010, 10:51 AM
Rocky Biddle, Tony Graffanino, Damaso Marte, Shingo Takatsu, Willie Harris, and Ross Gload.

beasly213
12-21-2010, 10:54 AM
Greg Norton only because of Hawks call "Norton.. You're the Greatest!"

russ99
12-21-2010, 11:05 AM
I have a long list:

Walt "No Neck" Willams
Mike Squires
Bee Bee Richard
Jim Essian
Wayne O. Nordhagen
Harry Chappas
Marc "Booter" Hill
Reid Nichols
Ken Williams
Warren Newson
Chad Bradford
Tony Phillips
Willie Harris
Pablo Ozuna
Jerry Owens
DeWayne Wise
Adam Russell
Scott Linebrink
Corky Miller
Mark Kotsay

Chez
12-21-2010, 11:10 AM
Bill Sharp -- Excellent defensive oufielder who was later traded to the Brewers for Bobby Collucio

Don Kessinger -- By the time he got to the Sox, he wasn't very good. He had a fine career on the north side.

Kevin Hickey -- How can you not love a guy who was discovered while playing 16 inch softball? I played 16 inch softball till I was 40 and fully expected to be the next Kevin Hickey. I wasn't. :smile:

Pablo Ozuna -- Always smiling, always making an unconventional play.

FielderJones
12-21-2010, 01:18 PM
Ed Herrmann -- one of only two former Sox slower than Konerko.

Chez
12-21-2010, 01:46 PM
Ed Herrmann -- one of only two former Sox slower than Konerko.

The other being Smoky Burgess?

RedHeadPaleHoser
12-21-2010, 02:12 PM
Herbert Perry - the Milkman. Best nickname ever. :D:

Rohan
12-21-2010, 02:25 PM
Some of these "bad" players that are being mentioned were/are actually pretty good.

Examples: Damaso Marte, Shingo Takatsu, Herbert Perry, Aaron Rowand, Miguel Olivo...

Ex-Chicagoan
12-21-2010, 03:17 PM
Oh, let's see...

John Cangelosi and Craig Grebeck were mentioned.
Scott Fletcher
Jorge Orta
Dan Pasqua
Bill Almon
Greg Hibbard (largely because I froze through his one-hitter on Opening Day '92.)

Banix12
12-21-2010, 03:31 PM
Matt Merullo

Mostly because his name sounded great when Gene Honda said it.

Johnny Mostil
12-21-2010, 03:37 PM
The 1979 team (not fair to all members, but still . . . ).

Frater Perdurabo
12-21-2010, 03:45 PM
John Cangelosi comes to mind. He was a spring training phenom, and was a long shot to earn a roster spot. He ended up doing exactly that. He worked really hard, and it was easy to pull for him.

I delivered pizza to him and his family at their Orland Park home shortly after he won a World Series ring with the Marlins in 1997.

doublem23
12-21-2010, 03:47 PM
If he counts, Mike Sirotka. If he doesn't, Brian Simmons. Still waiting for him to break out!

salty99
12-21-2010, 03:59 PM
Definitely Tony G!

I also liked Jason Bere, Shawn Abner, and Cangelosi

MetroPD
12-21-2010, 06:16 PM
Hands down Jim Parque

KMcMahon817
12-21-2010, 06:34 PM
Pablo Ozuna, no doubt. I own an authentic 2005 Ozuna jersey, that's how much I liked him.

gaelhound
12-21-2010, 06:43 PM
Gail Hopkins, Jim Willoughby, Bill Allman, Michael Huff, Greg Pryor, Alan Bannister, Danny Cater.
Danny Cater would step into the box and my old man would begin singing "Danny Boy". I always wanted Luis Alvarado to accomplish something.

JermaineDye05
12-21-2010, 06:51 PM
I loved Rob Mackowiak when he was here.

Pablo Ozuna also. I was disappointed when I learned he had used PEDs.

Woofer
12-21-2010, 06:52 PM
I've got to go with Harry Chappas and Kevin Bell. These were players who were highly touted, but their careers never took off.

JermaineDye05
12-21-2010, 07:03 PM
Oddly enough, Rob Mackowiak was one of the few guys we had that absolutely killed the Twins.

.362 4 HR 5 2B 10 RBI in 25 games.

WhiteSox5187
12-21-2010, 07:21 PM
I was a big fan of Shingo and Wassermann when they were here.

SOXSINCE'70
12-21-2010, 07:29 PM
Oh, let's see...

John Cangelosi and Craig Grebeck were mentioned.
Scott Fletcher
Jorge Orta
Dan Pasqua
Bill Almon
Greg Hibbard (largely because I froze through his one-hitter on Opening Day '92.)


How about Cory Snyder?

The Immigrant
12-21-2010, 08:31 PM
Tony G.

JermaineDye05
12-21-2010, 08:52 PM
Our GM was pretty bad at baseball. I do like him just fine though. He's done a great job off the field.

Bobby Thigpen
12-21-2010, 09:14 PM
I don't know if he was "bad" enough to qualify, but I did always like James Baldwin.

I liked Dave Gallagher too.

Jacob Nelson Fox
12-21-2010, 09:55 PM
Borchard. He seemed to have a good attitude, never whining or making excuses or blaming others for his lack of success.

Rikirk
12-21-2010, 09:59 PM
I remember Kevin Hickey. His brother Bucky was my gym teacher in 7th grade. Both real nice guys.
Also brings to mind my HS health teacher, Woody Urchack. I think he was an umpire for some time.
Aint it weird baseball players or those associated with it have funny names.

chisox77
12-21-2010, 10:33 PM
Rich McKinney, Jim Essian, Jim Morrison (average player who hustled), and Willie Harris.

A. Cavatica
12-21-2010, 10:39 PM
Warren Newson.

Favorite bad prospect: Alfornia Jones. Not sure why, just liked the name.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/jonesal02.shtml?redir

Falstaff
12-22-2010, 12:40 AM
1)Eddie Leon - stalwart shortstop #3 rarely got hits
2)Josh Fogg - was disappointed when this pitcher traded for that TRULY
bad Todd Ritchie pitchie from pittsburg
3)Johnny "the Jet" Jeter - very fast outfielder, wild arm
4)Jesse Jefferson - pitcher with old school high kick high velocity i saw wild pitch nearly over backstop one time.
5) Orta when he was only hitting like .208 yet always seemed clutch.
6) Cy Acosta (hon mention) my dad was convinced he alway blew the save
in order for a chance at a win, especially in relief of Bahnsen.

Dibbs
12-22-2010, 02:24 AM
Paco Martin
Juan Uribe
Pablo Ozuna

I'm not sure any of those guys qualify as "bad" though.

mcm3312
12-22-2010, 03:29 AM
michael jordan

TornLabrum
12-22-2010, 08:00 AM
How could I forget Bee Bee Richard, the only major leaguer I ever saw score from second on a fly ball.

doublem23
12-22-2010, 08:46 AM
michael jordan

This thread has a winner

Procol Harum
12-22-2010, 08:51 AM
Dave "Swish" Nicholson--22 homers (back when that was an enormous achievement for a member of the Sox) and 175 K's in 1963.... :o:

Procol Harum
12-22-2010, 08:58 AM
Two notes on answers given by some folks within the spirit of the criteria given for the thread--"bad" as in not so great, and perhaps not liked by other people.

1.) Herbert Perry has been listed by a number of people. I would submit that Perry was certainly not bad (he played pretty darn well for us), and he was very popular.

2.) Bee-Bee Richard has been mentioned several times. Richard was absolutely terrible, and became VERY unpopular.

Chez
12-22-2010, 09:15 AM
Like others have said, most of the players nominated weren't truly "bad." They simply weren't great.

russ99
12-22-2010, 09:48 AM
Rich McKinney, Jim Essian, Jim Morrison (average player who hustled), and Willie Harris.

Totally forgot about Jim Morrison.

I used to love hearing Nancy play "Light My Fire" when he came up to bat. :D:

johnnyg83
12-22-2010, 10:35 AM
Fred Manrique.

Scout 1: How does Fred play
Scout 2: Oh, man. Reeky.

FielderJones
12-22-2010, 10:56 AM
Ed Herrmann -- one of only two former Sox slower than Konerko.

The other being Smoky Burgess?

No, Sherm Lollar.

SOXSINCE'70
12-22-2010, 05:30 PM
Fred Manrique.

Scout 1: How does Fred play
Scout 2: Oh, man. Reeky.

:tiphat: But, I thought it was "Man-Reek-AY".

LongLiveFisk
12-22-2010, 05:56 PM
michael jordan

This thread has a winner

No kidding. I forgot all about MJ. :redface:

C-Dawg
12-22-2010, 07:57 PM
Jim Spencer, Francisco Barrios, Salome Barojas...

Again, none were really "bad", just not stars perhaps.

Brian26
12-22-2010, 09:24 PM
Warren Newson.

Favorite bad prospect: Alfornia Jones. Not sure why, just liked the name.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/jonesal02.shtml?redir

I thought Al Jones was going to be something special. He threw in the high 90s and looked like he might be the future closer in 1985 before the Sox traded for Bob James from Montreal. I still have his '85 Topps card.

doublem23
12-22-2010, 09:26 PM
No kidding. I forgot all about MJ. :redface:

Well his baseball career wasn't anything to remember, except that it played in the backdrop of Space Jam.

Andy T Clown
12-22-2010, 11:39 PM
John Cangilosi. He stopped by my house on Thanksgiving in 89. Nice guy.

LoveYourSuit
12-23-2010, 12:16 AM
Carlos Martinez (RIP). Ran like he was riding a bike. And he was bad.

Those late 80s teams were so bad. A bunch of no name characters.

Nellie_Fox
12-23-2010, 12:17 AM
Michael Jordan doesn't count. He was never on the White Sox roster, much less ever played a major league game. Ergo, he doesn't qualify as a Sox player.

LITTLE NELL
12-23-2010, 05:09 AM
Michael Jordan doesn't count. He was never on the White Sox roster, much less ever played a major league game. Ergo, he doesn't qualify as a Sox player.

I was going to post that but we had to go to a Christmas party and forgot it, but you are right.

Frater Perdurabo
12-23-2010, 09:51 AM
Michael Jordan doesn't count. He was never on the White Sox roster, much less ever played a major league game. Ergo, he doesn't qualify as a Sox player.

Your point stands, but didn't he homer in a Crosstown Classic?

Chez
12-23-2010, 10:29 AM
Your point stands, but didn't he homer in a Crosstown Classic?
No. I think he had two doubles.

TommyJohn
12-23-2010, 10:01 PM
I thought Al Jones was going to be something special. He threw in the high 90s and looked like he might be the future closer in 1985 before the Sox traded for Bob James from Montreal. I still have his '85 Topps card.


I was high on Alfornia Jones as well. I wanted him to be a great reliever if for no other reason than the reliever mowing them down on the North Side at the same time was Lee Smith. I wanted the media to write about the great relievers on both sides of town as "Alias Smith and Jones."

VMSNS
12-23-2010, 11:00 PM
Jerry Owens and Jamie Navarro.

...and Horacio Ramierez....Kenny Williams has his Royals phone out trying to re-acquire him again

Huisj
12-23-2010, 11:49 PM
Seems like I had a thing for guys who were big guys who looked like they should be better hitters than they ended up being and for catchers:

Warren Newson
Olmedo Saenz
Lyle Mouton--looked like a monster
Mario Valdez--thought he would be a smooth fielding doubles hitter who could let Frank DH
Robert Machado
Jorge Fabregas
Jeff Abbott--went from super promising in anticipation of Albert Belle leaving to complete nothing the next year out of the gate
Brian Simmons
Brook Fordyce
Danny Richar--hit a homer near me in a game in 2007, and there was crazy talk that he was a left soriano. uh huh.

Also some pitchers who at one time seemed to have nice arms:

Mike Bertotti--Hawk always went on and on about his spring training appearances
Luis Andujar
Larry Thomas
Carlos Castillo--I wanted him to be our Rich Garces
John Snyder--he had us all fooled for the first two months of '99
David Lundquist--quirky and threw hard for a week or two before blowing out his arm after giving up a walk-off grand slam to Harold Baines
Aaron Myette--we heard so much about him and he was awful.
Lorenzo Barcelo--turns out he wasn't actually Armando Benitez.
Matt Ginter--he and Jason Stumm were supposed to be great first round picks together. oops.
Jon Rauch--who didn't want to like a 6'11" pitcher with control and stuff?
Jeff Bajeneru
Boone Logan

Gosh I've rooted hard for a lot of nothing over the years.

TommyJohn
12-24-2010, 01:24 AM
Jon Rauch--who didn't want to like a 6'11" pitcher with control and stuff?


I was hoping Jon Rauch would be the next Randy Johnson. Well, he wore number 51 and was very tall-and that's where the similarities end.

NSFWSoxFan
12-24-2010, 04:31 AM
Miguel Olivo
Willie Harris
Tom Paciorek - he doesn't really qualify I guess, but I couldn't get him out of my mind in relation to this, so it must mean something to me.

Wsoxmike59
12-24-2010, 08:02 AM
Bart Johnson
Bucky Dent
Brian Downing
Pete Vuckovich (was pissed when Veeck left him unprotected in the '77 expansion draft)
Jim Essian


* Saw Tom Egan's name listed. I hated his guts. He pushed me down when I was a kid and I swear all I was trying to do was get his autograph. I got up dusted myself off and called him a Fatass and hoped he struck out every at bat!

TornLabrum
12-24-2010, 08:23 AM
Miguel Olivo
Willie Harris
Tom Paciorek - he doesn't really qualify I guess, but I couldn't get him out of my mind in relation to this, so it must mean something to me.

I think Paciorek is DQ'd simply because he could actually hit.

TomBradley72
12-24-2010, 08:54 AM
Ricky Seilheimer

Brian26
12-24-2010, 08:54 AM
I think Paciorek is DQ'd simply because he could actually hit.

Yes. I'd have to look this up, but I recall Paciorek being the only guy on the '83 team to hit over .300.

TommyJohn
12-24-2010, 09:45 AM
Yes. I'd have to look this up, but I recall Paciorek being the only guy on the '83 team to hit over .300.

You would be correct.

JB98
12-24-2010, 12:42 PM
Yeah, despite his self-deprecating manner on the Sox broadcasts through the years, Wimpy had a pretty nice MLB career (18 years .282 lifetime hitter, etc.). I don't think he qualifies as a "bad" Sox player.

Now, Dave Stegman, he sucked. When I was about seven or eight years old, I remember asking my grandfather why Stegman was playing CF instead of Rudy Law. Grandpa shrugged and said, "I don't know."

That said, my favorite bad Sox player has to be Joel Skinner. In the summer of 1985, every pack of Topps baseball cards you bought contained at least one Joel Skinner card.

I believe one of my childhood friends had no fewer than nine Joel Skinner cards in his collection. Too bad Skinner never amounted to anything. Those cards probably aren't worth the paper they are printed on today.

Lip Man 1
12-24-2010, 03:42 PM
JB:

But remember Hawk thought he was the next can't miss thing...enough so they moved Fisk to left field (and the 86 Sox media guide actually lists Fisk as a outfielder!) :o:

Lip

NSFWSoxFan
12-24-2010, 03:58 PM
I think Paciorek is DQ'd simply because he could actually hit.
lol. Touche. Ditto to everyone else who came to Paciorek's defense.

I don't know why he popped into my head, but the result was a weird trip down memory lane via Google. What I had first remembered (maybe a false memory) was a radio broadcast near the end of his Sox career. He had been subbing from time to time at first base and doing really well, I thought, at least with the bat. One of the announcers was saying that the fans were agitating for him to be playing full time at first, but Jimmy Piersall said no, no that was a bad idea and gave his reasons why he wouldn't perform well over the long haul playing every day. But when I checked, Piersall's announcing career ('77-'81) didn't overlap with Paciorek's time on the South Side ('82-'85), so who knows what the hell I was thinking.

The weirder part of the Google trip was following links as we all do and ending up reading about Greg Walker's (first?) seizure during a batting practice in 1988. The Angels were in town, so the article was written by Mike Penner, a really solid sports writer, who wrote for the LA Times for many years. Mike later became Christine Daniels, but for only a short time - a sad, sad story that ended with his suicide. One of the people who came to Greg Walker's aid on that day was Ed Brinkman, a long-time coach for the White Sox. That brought a smile to my face, because I used to root for the hapless Washington Senators for which Brinkman played shortstop. Eddie had the slickest glove but he couldn't hit a lick. So maybe I could add Brinkman to this list via the backdoor?

JB98
12-24-2010, 03:59 PM
JB:

But remember Hawk thought he was the next can't miss thing...enough so they moved Fisk to left field (and the 86 Sox media guide actually lists Fisk as a outfielder!) :o:

Lip

As I grew older and learned more about baseball, yes, I realized the silliness of that whole scenario. As eight- or nine-year-olds, my friends and I probably didn't realize at the time what a fool Hawk was as a GM. We just couldn't believe how many Joel Skinner baseball cards we were accumulating. :D:

Lamp81
12-24-2010, 04:25 PM
JB:

But remember Hawk thought he was the next can't miss thing...enough so they moved Fisk to left field (and the 86 Sox media guide actually lists Fisk as a outfielder!) :o:

Lip

I also remember Hawk heavily promoting Kenny Williams, as well. There was a Spring Training game where Hawk said something to the effect of: "Put the name Ken Williams down on a pice of paper, and put it on top of your mantle, and then pull it down in a couple of years, you'll see a superstar in the game"

I also think Hawk was very high on Darryl Boston.

TornLabrum
12-24-2010, 08:21 PM
IIRC Kenny finished high (I think third place) in voting for ROY playing centerfield. The next year somebody got the bright idea to move him to third base, and his career hit the skids.

DumpJerry
12-24-2010, 08:33 PM
IIRC Kenny finished high (I think third place) in voting for ROY playing centerfield. The next year somebody got the bright idea to move him to third base, and his career hit the skids.
No votes for ROY (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/willike02.shtml). However, one of the most similar players by age was Milton Bradley......

MetroPD
12-24-2010, 09:36 PM
No votes for ROY (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/willike02.shtml). However, one of the most similar players by age was Milton Bradley......
wow. I can't believe he played 106 games in 1990 and batted .161. I can't believe a team would even continue to play a guy like that.

DumpJerry
12-24-2010, 10:05 PM
wow. I can't believe he played 106 games in 1990 and batted .161. I can't believe a team would even continue to play a guy like that.
He played on two teams that year, Detroit and Toronto. Share the wealth.

A. Cavatica
12-24-2010, 11:26 PM
Bart Johnson
Bucky Dent
Brian Downing
Pete Vuckovich (was pissed when Veeck left him unprotected in the '77 expansion draft)
Jim Essian

All these guys were solid players. Vuckovich won a Cy Young award, for crying out loud (even if it was maybe the worst selection in history).

WhiteSox5187
12-25-2010, 12:37 AM
I also remember Hawk heavily promoting Kenny Williams, as well. There was a Spring Training game where Hawk said something to the effect of: "Put the name Ken Williams down on a pice of paper, and put it on top of your mantle, and then pull it down in a couple of years, you'll see a superstar in the game"

I also think Hawk was very high on Darryl Boston.

Hawk is STILL high on Kenny as a baseball player and bragged that every GM in baseball wanted him when he was in the minors and offered "some very good players for him" but he wasn't going to trade him.

Falstaff
12-25-2010, 02:39 AM
Can't believe nobody has mentioned Ed Herrman's back-up catcher,
Chuck Brinkman. Maybe because hit less than .200. Still a favorite.

PalehosePlanet
12-25-2010, 02:55 AM
How could I forget Bee Bee Richard, the only major leaguer I ever saw score from second on a fly ball.

You don't remember Marc "Booter" Hill scoring from second on a sac fly back in '83? It was one of the most improbable baseball moments of the 80's.

Oddly enough, I've seen Sherm Lollar and Smokey Burgess mentioned as the slowest Sox of all time, but there is no way in hell they were slower than Booter.

It's funny that baseball-reference has him listed at 205 lbs. His ass alone weighed that; he was 260 if he was a pound.

Wsoxmike59
12-25-2010, 07:03 AM
All these guys were solid players. Vuckovich won a Cy Young award, for crying out loud (even if it was maybe the worst selection in history).


You're right, I think I was going more for the "unsung" or under rated players. They certainly weren't bad players and they were among my favorite Sox players at the time they played.

I remember talking to one Sox fan a few years younger than me, and he only remembered the bad Bart Johnson from the '77 Hitmen era. He was going on how bad he was etc....and I told him I wish you could've seen the Bart Johnson circa 1971 when he was breaking in. Wow could he blow you away with his fastball. And intimidating too. He was like Don Drysdale if you dared to dig in on him, he'd buzz one past your skull.

Brian Downing I loved for his heart and his hustle. That guy would bust his ass for the ballclub. It was a shame he didn't develop in to the hitter he was later to become while in a White Sox uniform. It seemed as a Sox Downing was always swinging for the fences, and then later on as he moved to Anaheim he became a good leadoff hitter of all things!

As for Bucky Dent I recall his awesome rookie year (which he should've won ROY instead of Hargrove a DH) and Dent seemed poised for stardom the following season. I can recall in 1975 Bucky Dent was still improving with the bat flirting with .300 heading in to the dog days. And then inexplicably he went in to a slump shortly thereafter and never recovered.


I loved Pete Vuckovich when the Sox first called him up and he won like 7 games in 1/2 a season. I remember telling my cousin John who I went to a lot of Sox games with at the time. "Vuck could be a 15 game winner next season for us" And then they left him unprotected in the expansion draft and he went on to stardom first for the Jays and then Milw and StL. But I liked him a lot in his short stint on the southside.

And of course there's Jim Essian the other half of the catching tandem on the old '77 Hitmen Sox. I loved his steady play and good defensive work behind the plate. My favorite Jim Essian moment was after he hit his first big league HR he said he went in to his HR trot only to discover he didn't have one. :D:

wassagstdu
12-25-2010, 07:28 AM
Johnny Groth. Seemed like he was always hitting into a double play.

DumpJerry
12-25-2010, 08:18 AM
How could I forget Bee Bee Richard, the only major leaguer I ever saw score from second on a fly ball.
I was at a game when Alexei did that his rookie year. Deep fly to Center and he bolted all the way home.

Wsoxmike59
12-25-2010, 08:50 AM
Can't believe nobody has mentioned Ed Herrman's back-up catcher,
Chuck Brinkman. Maybe because hit less than .200. Still a favorite.

I met Chuck Brinkman when he took his TV in to the repair shop that was next door to the Pizza Parlor my older brother worked at.

I had kept a Sox scrapbook during the 1973 season and had dutifully cut out every picture in the daily newspapers that season.

When the owner of the Pizza Parlor tipped me off to when Chuck was going to be there to pick up his TV set I came prepared with the newspaper clippings of Chuck's 1st big league HR and he autographed it for me.

The caption on the photo was BLAST BEYOND BELIEF and it showed Chuck Brinkman being greeted at the dugout by his teammates after hitting his 1st big league HR.

I still have the autograph, but it was the only picture from that scrapbook that I kept. Unfortunately I tossed the scrapbook away when I got in to High School and since the Sox didn't win the pennant or anything I didn't think there was anything worth keeping it for.

In retrospect I kind of wish I had kept it. But since they were all newsprint photos they were beginning to yellow and not hold up well. But it was a fun summer project for a 13 year old Wsoxmike.

wilburaga
12-25-2010, 09:27 AM
You also witnessed Chuck's last major league home run.

http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/B/Pbrinc101.htm

Lamp81
12-25-2010, 10:28 AM
Hawk is STILL high on Kenny as a baseball player and bragged that every GM in baseball wanted him when he was in the minors and offered "some very good players for him" but he wasn't going to trade him.

Another reason to be thankful that Hawk is announcing White Sox games instead of Generally Managing them.

He held on to Kenny Williams yet traded away Bobby Bonilla, who showed all sorts of promise in his stint as a Sox in his rookie year.

Brian26
12-25-2010, 11:22 AM
It's funny that baseball-reference has him listed at 205 lbs. His ass alone weighed that; he was 260 if he was a pound.

I enjoy going through my old baseball cards and reading stats on the back, but I can't believe some of the weights Topps and Fleer used to put on the cards. Some of the guys have to be listed 50 lbs lighter than what they really were.

Whitesox029
12-25-2010, 12:24 PM
Gotta be Karkovice. There had to be something likable about a guy who spent 12 years in the bigs with the same team and hit .221 for his career. I think popular perception was that he was "bad" because of the batting average, but he did throw out 41% of would-be base-stealers, including leading the league three times in his career, good for 24th all-time. Not sure if that disqualifies him from consideration in this thread.

JNS
12-26-2010, 09:28 PM
Juan "Say it ain't gone" Agusto

Skip Pitlock

Rocky Colivito (when on the SOx)

Ron Santo

Hank Allen

soxfanreggie
12-26-2010, 09:44 PM
Gotta be Karkovice. There had to be something likable about a guy who spent 12 years in the bigs with the same team and hit .221 for his career. I think popular perception was that he was "bad" because of the batting average, but he did throw out 41% of would-be base-stealers, including leading the league three times in his career, good for 24th all-time. Not sure if that disqualifies him from consideration in this thread.

While his BA left much to be desired, I believe the length of his career and defense prevent him from being "bad."

Dub25
12-26-2010, 10:51 PM
Norberto "Paco" Martin
Esteban Beltre (had his baseball card)
Warren "The Deacon" Newwwwwwson
Lyle Mouton
Craig Grebeck
Mike Caruso (for his game winning homer to sweep the Cubs at Wrigley)

4 and a half pages and "The Deacon" finally gets mentioned but yet I saw McKay Christionsen a few times. He shouldve been banned for having the 1st name McCay.

soxinem1
12-27-2010, 01:30 PM
You don't remember Marc "Booter" Hill scoring from second on a sac fly back in '83? It was one of the most improbable baseball moments of the 80's.

Oddly enough, I've seen Sherm Lollar and Smokey Burgess mentioned as the slowest Sox of all time, but there is no way in hell they were slower than Booter.

It's funny that baseball-reference has him listed at 205 lbs. His ass alone weighed that; he was 260 if he was a pound.

If memory serves me right I believe Greg Walker was the one to hit that sac fly.

In 1984 when Fisk was hurt he played a lot more than expected, and I remember him just crushing a HR in the upper deck in LF at Comiskey Park.

I also remember him playing like the last ten innings or so at 3B in the 25 inning game that year.

Booter also had two INF hits in 1985, and he would have to qualify as one of my favorite second tier players. He was definitely fan-friendly, and I still have the bat and autographed ball he gave me from his time with the White Sox.

Another favorite was 'The Little Hurt' Craig Grebeck. Ozzie and him going yard back-to-back off Nolan Ryan was priceless!!!!

WhiteSox5187
12-27-2010, 02:40 PM
I was at a game when Alexei did that his rookie year. Deep fly to Center and he bolted all the way home.

I think he did that against KC at KC, no?

I know everyone here hates him, but I liked Billy Koch. He sucked, but he knew it and didn't mope around. I remember a reporter asked him why he thought he had been released and he said "Because I sucked," and someone asked him "If you had to write a book about your time with the White Sox..." and before the reporter could finish he said "There'd be a book burning downtown if I wrote a book."

Falstaff
12-28-2010, 09:01 PM
You also witnessed Chuck's last major league home run.

http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/B/Pbrinc101.htm

yeah, Brinkman also had one intention base on balls in 6 yr sub-.200 BA career. Would be excellent trivia question to find out who was the next batter in that order, who was less fearsome hitter than Chuck. Maybe ask him next time he brings in the ol TV for fixin, eh?

wilburaga
12-29-2010, 10:54 AM
yeah, Brinkman also had one intention base on balls in 6 yr sub-.200 BA career. Would be excellent trivia question to find out who was the next batter in that order, who was less fearsome hitter than Chuck. Maybe ask him next time he brings in the ol TV for fixin, eh?

Really, I thought this was common knowledge. Brinkman's sole IBB occurred on the last day of the 1971 season against the Brewers, a 2-1 Sox victory. Following Brinkman in the lineup was pitcher Don Eddy. After the IBB, Carlos May was announced for Eddy. After a pitching change, Rick Reichardt pinch hit for May and whiffed.

The Brewers should have feared Don Eddy. Earlier in the game he had doubled in his first and only major league at bat. He retired with a 1.000 batting average and a 2.000 slugging percentage. The league never figured him out.

voodoochile
12-29-2010, 03:11 PM
Dan Wright - really thought he was gonna be a major stud for the team.

Dan Richar - thought our 2B problems were solved for a decade after 2007

soltrain21
12-29-2010, 03:35 PM
Dan Wright - really thought he was gonna be a major stud for the team.

Dan Richar - thought our 2B problems were solved for a decade after 2007

I do remember that. I wasn't as adamant as you were, but I thought he was going to be somewhat solid.

DonnieDarko
12-29-2010, 03:37 PM
Whatever happened to Danny Richar, anyway?

WhiteSox5187
12-29-2010, 03:54 PM
Whatever happened to Danny Richar, anyway?

He was part of the Ken Griffey Junior trade and then signed with the Marlins in '09. I was at the game when he got his first hit.

DonnieDarko
12-29-2010, 03:56 PM
He was part of the Ken Griffey Junior trade and then signed with the Marlins in '09. I was at the game when he got his first hit.

I knew he was a part of the trade for Ken Griffey Jr., I just didn't know what happened to him after that. But you say that he signed with the Marlins? Is he still there?

WhiteSox5187
12-29-2010, 04:04 PM
I knew he was a part of the trade for Ken Griffey Jr., I just didn't know what happened to him after that. But you say that he signed with the Marlins? Is he still there?

Evidently. He seems to be a career minor leaguer at this point as he only had 8 ABs in 2009.

TommyJohn
12-29-2010, 06:16 PM
Really, I thought this was common knowledge. Brinkman's sole IBB occurred on the last day of the 1971 season against the Brewers, a 2-1 Sox victory. Following Brinkman in the lineup was pitcher Don Eddy. After the IBB, Carlos May was announced for Eddy. After a pitching change, Rick Reichardt pinch hit for May and whiffed.

The Brewers should have feared Don Eddy. Earlier in the game he had doubled in his first and only major league at bat. He retired with a 1.000 batting average and a 2.000 slugging percentage. The league never figured him out.
This was the same day that Bill Melton blasted HR number 33 to break the 3-way tie between himself, Norm Cash and Reggie Jackson to become the first White Sox player to lead the AL in home runs. So perhaps he fondly remembers Chuck's IBB.

SI1020
12-29-2010, 06:38 PM
Fred Talbot went 4-5 with the 1964 White Sox and I was pretty sure he was going to be a solid addition to an already stellar pitching staff. He was traded that off season in a three team blockbuster deal with the Indians and Athletics. Talbot retired in 1970, going 38-56 and never fullfilling the promise that I saw in him. I was even higher on the potential of left hander Ken Kravec, a big favorite of mine, who really seemed to enjoy the city of Chicago and pitching for the Sox. He was actually decent in 1979, but then he tailed off and ended his career in 1981 and 82 with the Cubs.

Milkman43
12-30-2010, 11:15 AM
Ross Gload and Chris Widger

billcissell
12-30-2010, 12:49 PM
So many mediocre at best Sox ballplayers down through the years. Off the top of my head here's a few guys who never amounted to much, but I liked them anyway:

Eddie Leon - the "solution" at ss, for a brief period anyway
Jack Brohamer - hit for the cycle
J.C. Martin - had a fairly long career with the Sox
Joe Cunningham - loved this guy, got hurt and then got traded
Dave Nicholson - the ballpark fan and his peek-a-boo stance
Al Weis - weak stick, he and Martin helped do in the Cubs in '69
Gerry Janeski - never really panned out
Rick Reichardt - former Badger grid star
Ed Stroud - the "creeper"
Tom Egan - put one on the roof at old Comiskey
Bart Johnson - the kid with all kinds of potential
Bill Sharp - solid ballplayer, 4th outfielder
Jesse Jefferson - thought he might be something special, I was wrong
Bill Naharodny - loved this guy's name (so did Harry)
Mike Eden - Sarasota spring training sensation
Ross Baumgarten - New Trier grad
Royce Stillman - another utility of
Jim Morrison - the lizard king at the hot corner

I could go on and on ...

DonnieDarko
12-30-2010, 10:16 PM
Brian Anderson (I know that there are more of you people out there :P), Shingo Takatsu (he was lights out for...a year?), Joe Borchard...I don't have many yet.

The Dude
12-31-2010, 09:37 AM
Scott Radinsky

Domeshot17
12-31-2010, 11:28 AM
Brian Anderson

soxfanreggie
12-31-2010, 12:43 PM
Scott Radinsky

Ummm...no.

His only "bad" season with us was after being diagnosed with Hodgkin's disease.

In his time with the White Sox:

90: 6-1, 4.82 ERA, 4 Saves, 9th in ROY voting
91: 5-5, 2.02 ERA, 8 Saves
92: 3-7, 2.73 ERA, 15 Saves
93: 8-2, 4.28 ERA, 4 Saves
95: 2-1, 5.45 ERA, 1 Save

He was 24-16 with us 3.62 ERA and 32 saves. Maybe you're just thinking back to the '93 ALCS?

sweetjpo
01-06-2011, 04:26 PM
I loved watching Chris Getz play for a season. Disappointed when they traded him for essentially nothing. (I know we got Teahen for him)

TornLabrum
01-06-2011, 07:38 PM
I loved watching Chris Getz play for a season. Disappointed when they traded him for essentially nothing. (I know we got Teahen for him)

As you said, essentially nothing.

Brian26
01-06-2011, 10:30 PM
Current era: Ross Gload and Ehren Wassermann.

90s: Greg Norton and Jeff Abbott

80s: Mike Squires and Luis Salazar (who could play any position on the field).

ode to veeck
01-07-2011, 01:11 PM
Viciedo

ode to veeck
01-07-2011, 01:12 PM
As you said, essentially nothing.

Chris Getz for sure

ode to veeck
01-07-2011, 01:12 PM
Juan Pizzaro

SI1020
01-07-2011, 01:25 PM
Juan Pizzaro My uncle came in from Pennsylvania and took me and my younger brother to see Pizarro pitch a complete game win on opening day on a frigid April afternoon.


http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/CHA/CHA196204100.shtml

Pizarro was a damn good pitcher, going 131-105 lifetime, including 75-47 with the Sox. He was an exciting left handed fireballer, with a sharp curve who pitched on some of the best Sox staffs in their history, and one of my favorites in the 60's.

Jitterbug Boy
01-07-2011, 04:12 PM
Ross Baumgarten

In 1980, he was 2-12 with a 3.44 ERA.

GO_U_WHITESOX
01-08-2011, 10:05 AM
There has been so many in my 50+ yrs as a Sox fan..but for some stupid reason..I really liked Brian Anderson and wanted to see him learn to hit!!!

akingamongstmen
01-10-2011, 11:51 AM
Late 80s - Dan "The Hammer" Pasqua and Craig "Little Hurt" Grebeck

90s - Jim Parque and Jeff Abbott

00s - C'mon Timo!!!

Lamp81
01-10-2011, 06:42 PM
Late 80s - Dan "The Hammer" Pasqua and Craig "Little Hurt" Grebeck

90s - Jim Parque and Jeff Abbott

00s - C'mon Timo!!!

Grebeck played with the Sox from '90-'95, so you'll have to move him in with Parque and Abbott.

maristsox
01-10-2011, 09:17 PM
Kelly Wunsch. Nuff' said

Grobber33
01-11-2011, 10:57 AM
Brent Lillibridge, with Nick Masset a close second.


Lillibridge, good guy, but he's a SEAHAWKS fan who no doubt is rooting against the Bears this weekend. His right of course,but..........

GoSox2K3
01-11-2011, 10:56 PM
After reading some of the comments by some posters on WSI about certain players, I'll say that my favorite bad Sox players are Edwin Jackson, Gordon Beckham, and AJ Pierzynski.

Lillibridge, good guy, but he's a SEAHAWKS fan who no doubt is rooting against the Bears this weekend. His right of course,but..........

Yep:

http://www.dailyherald.com/article/20110111/sports/701129804/

EMel9281
01-12-2011, 01:59 PM
Lyle Mouton gets my love here. I remember watching a game on TV when I was a kid with my best friend. It was bottom of the 9th and Lyle was sent up as a pinch hitter. I remarked to my friend, something along the lines of, "They send up Lyle Mouton?! What is he going to do?" Well, what he did was hit a walk-off home run. My friend and I went crazy after that...

waldo_the_wolf
01-16-2011, 10:58 PM
Charlie O'Brien
Craig Grebeck
Randy Williams
D'Angelo Jimenez
Jim Parque

also, I seem to be on my own, but I'm a big Tony Pena fan and would love to see him start more often.

Nellie_Fox
01-17-2011, 12:13 AM
You know, folks, the original question was for a "player," not "players." Listing every obscure Sox player you can think of doesn't answer the question.

palehozenychicty
01-18-2011, 01:28 PM
The Deacon. Warren Newson.

PeteWard
01-19-2011, 12:24 PM
No, Sherm Lollar.

Luzinski was slower than Konerko and maybe even "Suphermann".

SoxFanEarl
01-20-2011, 09:14 AM
I am going to have to go with Tom Egan. One of my first White Sox games I went to as a kid, I witnessed a very scarce accomplishment against the Oakland Athletics. Tom hit a home run over the left field roof in old Comiskey, and that has stuck with me all these years.

Then, of course, the changing of the baseball, the arrival of performance enhancers...etc, then it became boring because everyone was hitting them over the roof....LOL.

:gulp:

Nellie_Fox
01-20-2011, 11:14 AM
I am going to have to go with Tom Egan. One of my first White Sox games I went to as a kid, I witnessed a very scarce accomplishment against the Oakland Athletics. Tom hit a home run over the left field roof in old Comiskey, and that has stuck with me all these years.

Then, of course, the changing of the baseball, the arrival of performance enhancers...etc, then it became boring because everyone was hitting them over the roof....LOL.

:gulp:Moving home plate forward ten feet had quite an impact on the roof shots at the old park, too.