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kba
12-18-2010, 08:59 PM
Here's some cool video from August 1977, when the Sox still held a 4 1/2 game lead on Kansas City. (The Royals would later go on a 24-1 run in September.)

There's video of Zisk, Gamble, Lemon knocking around the best pitcher who's not in the Hall of Fame. Some kudos to Steve Stone for "finally giving the White Sox a decent pitched game." Plus a long profile of Eric Solderholm, some nice footage of old Comiskey when it still had red and blue seats, and a good shot at the end of the scoreboard blowing its top.

http://www.fuzzymemories.tv/index.php?c=3476

Brian26
12-18-2010, 10:55 PM
August 4, 1977...and the Cubs and Sox were in first place? Wow, I don't recall the Cubs being that competitve in '77. Weigel also said that Sutter and Reuschel were the best two pitchers in baseball.

Brian26
12-18-2010, 10:59 PM
Awkward moment at the 3:00 mark when Blyleven asks Soderholm how Soderholm's wife is doing....along with the kids Blyleven impregnated her with. And Weigel aired this.

:o:

michned
12-18-2010, 11:03 PM
August 4, 1977...and the Cubs and Sox were in first place? Wow, I don't recall the Cubs being that competitve in '77. Weigel also said that Sutter and Reuschel were the best two pitchers in baseball.

They both started their slides that year at approximately the same time (early August).

It was good to see Weigel and ol' plastic hair himself, anchorman Ron Hunter.

DrCrawdad
12-18-2010, 11:47 PM
Awkward moment at the 3:00 mark when Blyleven asks Soderholm how Soderholm's wife is doing....along with the kids Blyleven impregnated her with. And Weigel aired this.

:o:

It seemed like two old friends teasing one and another.

http://www.mrsillinoisamerica.com/images/fame/04_ginny_soderholm.jpg
Ginny Soderholm
Mrs. Illinois/America 1985

Brian26
12-18-2010, 11:51 PM
It seemed like two old friends teasing one and another.


No doubt. It was all in good fun, but you'd still never see something like that shown on squeaky-clean television today.

That Fuzzy Memories site is a hoot. The old newsclips are amazing.

DrCrawdad
12-19-2010, 12:03 AM
No doubt. It was all in good fun, but you'd still never see something like that shown on squeaky-clean television today.

That Fuzzy Memories site is a hoot. The old newsclips are amazing.

You have a point there.

I really enjoyed that clip too. '77 was a big year for me, as a young Sox fan. At that point in my life I was scouring the Daily News and clipping all the stories about the Sox. It wasn't just during the season either. I'd read thru the sports section all year, hoping for any news about the Sox (and no I was not measuring the newspaper comparing Sox and Cubs coverage). For years I had a folder filled with clips about the Sox. I wish I had kept it.

TDog
12-19-2010, 12:54 AM
August 4, 1977...and the Cubs and Sox were in first place? Wow, I don't recall the Cubs being that competitve in '77. Weigel also said that Sutter and Reuschel were the best two pitchers in baseball.

Both the Cubs and White Sox were not good baseball teams after July. The Cubs were 19 games above .500 at the All-Star break and finished a .500 team, losing eight of their last nine, including a doubleheader on the last day of the season. The White Sox played .500 ball after the All-Star break, but their skid started a couple of weeks later. Immediately after the break, they won eight of 10 before losing their last game of July.

The White Sox weren't just blown away by the Royals (and they were blown away, finishing 12 games out), the Sox also finished four games behind the Rangers. In a season where there were 14 teams playing a balanced schedule, The White Sox finished with the sixth-best record. If they had played in the East instead of the Est, they would have had the same schedule, but they would have finished in fourth place 10 games out instead of third place 12 games out. They finished the season with a record better than just eight of the league's 14 teams, unlike the 1972 White Sox who had the second best record among 12 American League teams, although that year they played an imbalanced schedule. Even by today's watered down standards, the White Sox wouldn't be close to making the postseason.

When you consider that the White Sox had baseball's best record in early July, it becomes clear that they weren't very good at all late in the season.

DumpJerry
12-19-2010, 03:16 AM
August 4, 1977...and the Cubs and Sox were in first place? Wow, I don't recall the Cubs being that competitve in '77. Weigel also said that Sutter and Reuschel were the best two pitchers in baseball.
The Cubs and Sox were in first place in their respective divisions longer than any other team in their league in 1977. They weren't in First on the only day it mattered, the end of the last day of the season. It was a very exciting summer as the prospect of a Crosstown Series loomed until things fell apart for both teams. This was the year of the "South Side Hitmen."

tebman
12-19-2010, 09:29 AM
The Cubs and Sox were in first place in their respective divisions longer than any other team in their league in 1977. They weren't in First on the only day it mattered, the end of the last day of the season. It was a very exciting summer as the prospect of a Crosstown Series loomed until things fell apart for both teams. This was the year of the "South Side Hitmen."

My second favorite season, right after 2005. :cool:

LongLiveFisk
12-19-2010, 10:22 AM
Awkward moment at the 3:00 mark when Blyleven asks Soderholm how Soderholm's wife is doing....along with the kids Blyleven impregnated her with. And Weigel aired this.

:o:

Well, I'm sure if Blyleven had actually said it this way, they would NOT have aired it. "How's Ginny and my kids?" doesn't sound nearly as bad.

downstairs
12-20-2010, 02:05 PM
August 4, 1977...and the Cubs and Sox were in first place? Wow, I don't recall the Cubs being that competitve in '77. Weigel also said that Sutter and Reuschel were the best two pitchers in baseball.

I was 2 at the time, so I obviously don't remember... I just looked up and the Cubs were 8.5 games up in first in late June (and that's with the much larger divisions at the time) and slid to only finish .500 and in 4th place.

I never knew that about the Cubs 1977 season. Probably because we talk so much about the great season the Sox had that year.

downstairs
12-20-2010, 02:06 PM
Well, I'm sure if Blyleven had actually said it this way, they would NOT have aired it. "How's Ginny and my kids?" doesn't sound nearly as bad.

Yeah, its sort of a cliche joke... no big deal.

Red Barchetta
12-20-2010, 03:19 PM
Wow! Some nasty base-running goin' on! :o:

TDog
12-20-2010, 04:50 PM
Wow! Some nasty base-running goin' on! :o:

One of the old Chicago baseball writers, I think it was Bill Gleason, was talking in 1977 about the poor fundamentals on the White Sox and said their baserunning was like something out of the Middle Ages when they didn't have baseball and people just ran through forests and things.

Earlier in the season, of course, Ralph Garr was called out after hitting what would have been a home run had he not passed up a baserunner between first and second.

Red Barchetta
12-20-2010, 04:51 PM
One of the old Chicago baseball writers, I think it was Bill Gleason, was talking in 1977 about the poor fundamentals on the White Sox and said their baserunning was like something out of the Middle Ages when they didn't have baseball and people just ran through forests and things.

Earlier in the season, of course, Ralph Garr was called out after hitting what would have been a home run had he not passed up a baserunner between first and second.

Compared to the game today, they looked like a men's 16" softball team running those bases. :D: Love the 70s era porn staches as well.

Lip Man 1
12-20-2010, 04:57 PM
June 24, 1977 - An embarrassing moment for Sox outfielder Ralph Garr and, as it turned out, a costly one for the team. In the 3rd inning of a game in Minnesota, Garr hit what appeared to be a three run home run... however as he was running the bases he passed catcher Jim Essian who waited at first base to make sure the ball was, in fact, a home run. Garr was called out for passing the runner and awarded a two run single. The Sox wound up losing the game 7 - 6.

Lip

FielderJones
12-20-2010, 05:35 PM
Both the Cubs and White Sox were not good baseball teams after July.

I would have taken 90 wins this year. :shrug:

TDog
12-20-2010, 08:23 PM
I would have taken 90 wins this year. :shrug:

Not if two teams in the league had 100 and two others had 97 you wouldn't.

It was an expansion year and win totals were inflated. The fact is, the 88 wins the White Sox had in 2010 was sixth overall among 14 teams and eight wins behind the best record in the league. The 1977 White Sox with 90 wins had the sixth best record among 14 teams and was 12 games behind the best record in the league.

Had there been a wild card in 1977, the White Sox would have been seven games out of the wild card while being 12 games out of first. The 2010 White Sox were six games out of first, so being seven out of the wild card race was irrelevant, making it irrelevant that there was no wild card in 1977.

Both teams were in first place in July, but the fact is the 2010 White Sox were a little more competitive than the 1977 White Sox. It is odd that there are people who hate the 2010 White Sox and yet love the 1977 White Sox considering there wasn't a huge difference between the two.

The 1977 White Sox were not a very good team in July and August. There are a couple of reasons people remember them fondly, however. The second Bill Veeck regime was marked by teams that were not at all competitive, and 1976 was especially dismal. The 1977 team was such a pleasant surprise. Also, people tend to get more excited about hitting than pitching.

Lip Man 1
12-20-2010, 09:22 PM
T-Dog:

Regardless of your less than encouraging review, 1977 was one of the greatest seasons in White Sox history, they came back from the dead and helped sustain the franchise until the 1981 season.

A team composed of cast off's, has been's, rehab cases and bargain basement free agents won 90 damn games... expansion or not, winning 90 games is really, really, really hard to do (unless you are the Yankees and can buy at least that total every season...)

Lip

TDog
12-20-2010, 10:43 PM
T-Dog:

Regardless of your less than encouraging review, 1977 was one of the greatest seasons in White Sox history, they came back from the dead and helped sustain the franchise until the 1981 season.

A team composed of cast off's, has been's, rehab cases and bargain basement free agents won 90 damn games... expansion or not, winning 90 games is really, really, really hard to do (unless you are the Yankees and can buy at least that total every season...)

Lip

The 1977 White Sox were one of the most fun teams in the team's history. It set what was then a team attendance record (that wouldn't be broken until shortly the Reinsdorf group raised the franchise standards). It wasn't one of the greatest teams in franchise history, although it was the second-greatest White Sox team of the 1970s. (The 1972 team had a better winning percentage and was a more serious contender.) It wasn't even one of the top 10 greatest White Sox teams since 1970. The 1977 season stands out, though, because it was sandwiched 97- and 90-loss seasons.

You can't overlook that this was a year when 43 percent of AL teams won at least 90 games.

WSI wasn't around in 1977 to complain about the team's manifold problems. I doubt such a mentality would have considered it a great team at the time.

Lip Man 1
12-20-2010, 10:52 PM
T-Dog:

My point still stands it was a TREMENDOUS year, expansion or no expansion. I can 'overlook' anything I want because I'm not wedded totally to statistics, I judge by what I see for the most part.

I loved 1977 and I'm very optimistic about this season, unlike you at the present time based on your overall postings in the past month.

Lip

TDog
12-20-2010, 11:14 PM
T-Dog:

My point still stands it was a TREMENDOUS year, expansion or no expansion. I can 'overlook' anything I want because I'm not wedded totally to statistics, I judge by what I see for the most part.

I loved 1977 and I'm very optimistic about this season, unlike you at the present time based on your overall postings in the past month.

Lip

I loved 1977, too. But I loved 1972 more. And the White Sox played better baseball in 2010 than they did in 1977.

Railsplitter
12-21-2010, 09:19 AM
Awkward moment at the 3:00 mark when Blyleven asks Soderholm how Soderholm's wife is doing....along with the kids Blyleven impregnated her with. And Weigel aired this.

:o:

It seemed like two old friends teasing one and another.



The line is used in Major League. Clu Heywood says it to Jake Taylor on Opemning Day.

Blyleven would be just the guy to use that line! He had a custom made sports shirt depicting two alligators in an amourous position and a t-shirt that read "I Love to Fart"

LITTLE NELL
12-21-2010, 09:43 AM
T-Dog:

My point still stands it was a TREMENDOUS year, expansion or no expansion. I can 'overlook' anything I want because I'm not wedded totally to statistics, I judge by what I see for the most part.

I loved 1977 and I'm very optimistic about this season, unlike you at the present time based on your overall postings in the past month.

Lip

I loved 1977, too. But I loved 1972 more. And the White Sox played better baseball in 2010 than they did in 1977.

My take on 77; the first 4 months were just pure magic. The Sox had some real good teams in the 60s but the excitement level at the ballpark in 77 had not been seen since the 59 Champs. 1972 was good but no 77. Fans with every win got a little bit more zanier and crazier what with the singing and curtain calls. I still say if we win the night-cap of that DH on July 31st after one of the greatest wins in Sox history in the opener we might have deflated the Royals just enough to pull off a Division title. The team was far from being a great team but the fun that year was the best ever up until then.

TommyJohn
12-21-2010, 09:46 AM
My take on 77; the first 4 months were just pure magic. The Sox had some real good teams in the 60s but the excitement level at the ballpark in 77 had not been seen since the 59 Champs. 1972 was good but no 77. Fans with every win got a little bit more zanier and crazier what with the singing and curtain calls. I still say if we win that 2nd game of that DH on July 31st we might have deflated the Royals just enough to pull off a Division title.
The Royals were far and away the better team.

LITTLE NELL
12-21-2010, 09:58 AM
The Royals were far and away the better team.

I agree but like I said if we won that 2nd game of that DH things may have been different but we didn't so I guess its a mute point.

TDog
12-21-2010, 01:26 PM
My take on 77; the first 4 months were just pure magic. The Sox had some real good teams in the 60s but the excitement level at the ballpark in 77 had not been seen since the 59 Champs. 1972 was good but no 77. Fans with every win got a little bit more zanier and crazier what with the singing and curtain calls. I still say if we win the night-cap of that DH on July 31st after one of the greatest wins in Sox history in the opener we might have deflated the Royals just enough to pull off a Division title. The team was far from being a great team but the fun that year was the best ever up until then.

The White Sox didn't just finish behind the Royals. They finished behind the Rangers as well. The Rangers' season was more magical than the White Sox's season was. Only one Texas Rangers team in history won more games, and it wasn't the team that went to the World Series. If the White Sox had deflated the Royals, in the second game of the doubleheader, the Rangers might have had an even more magical season.

The team won a lot of games in spite of not being able to pitch or field or run the bases. That year there were five American League teams that lost 90 games just as there were five that won 90 games. Thee was another team that lost 88. There were four that lost at least 95 games and four that won at least 94. The 1977 White Sox didn't have an MVP candidate. (Richie Zisk finished 14th and Oscar Gamble got one 10th place vote.) Their pitching was abysmal. In 1972, Dick Allen had perhaps the greatest offensive season in White Sox history to be the overwhelming choice for MVP, but Wilbur Wood finished a close second to Gaylord Perry in the Cy Young vote and finished seventh in the MVP vote. The 1972 White Sox played better baseball. When games went to the bullpen, they went to Terry Forster and Rich Gossage. The 1972 White Sox had the second best record in the AL.

I understand the mythology of the 1977 season. I turned 20 that summer and went to a lot of games. It was fun even in August because people didn't know the party and kept on having a good time. But believing the White Sox would have won the division if they had won the second game of that Sunday doubleheader is like believing the White Sox would have won the 2010 World Series if Matt Thornton didn't give up a home run to Jim Thome to lose an apparent extra-inning win against the Twins.

LITTLE NELL
12-21-2010, 04:37 PM
The White Sox didn't just finish behind the Royals. They finished behind the Rangers as well. The Rangers' season was more magical than the White Sox's season was. Only one Texas Rangers team in history won more games, and it wasn't the team that went to the World Series. If the White Sox had deflated the Royals, in the second game of the doubleheader, the Rangers might have had an even more magical season.

The team won a lot of games in spite of not being able to pitch or field or run the bases. That year there were five American League teams that lost 90 games just as there were five that won 90 games. Thee was another team that lost 88. There were four that lost at least 95 games and four that won at least 94. The 1977 White Sox didn't have an MVP candidate. (Richie Zisk finished 14th and Oscar Gamble got one 10th place vote.) Their pitching was abysmal. In 1972, Dick Allen had perhaps the greatest offensive season in White Sox history to be the overwhelming choice for MVP, but Wilbur Wood finished a close second to Gaylord Perry in the Cy Young vote and finished seventh in the MVP vote. The 1972 White Sox played better baseball. When games went to the bullpen, they went to Terry Forster and Rich Gossage. The 1972 White Sox had the second best record in the AL.

I understand the mythology of the 1977 season. I turned 20 that summer and went to a lot of games. It was fun even in August because people didn't know the party and kept on having a good time. But believing the White Sox would have won the division if they had won the second game of that Sunday doubleheader is like believing the White Sox would have won the 2010 World Series if Matt Thornton didn't give up a home run to Jim Thome to lose an apparent extra-inning win against the Twins.

I know, but its a ''what if''-coulda woulda shoulda'' thing.

chisox77
12-22-2010, 07:22 PM
June 24, 1977 - An embarrassing moment for Sox outfielder Ralph Garr and, as it turned out, a costly one for the team. In the 3rd inning of a game in Minnesota, Garr hit what appeared to be a three run home run... however as he was running the bases he passed catcher Jim Essian who waited at first base to make sure the ball was, in fact, a home run. Garr was called out for passing the runner and awarded a two run single. The Sox wound up losing the game 7 - 6.

Lip

I remember that so well - and Harry Caray was disgusted with Essian, since the game was televised on Channel 44.