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View Full Version : Dallas Morning News' Tim Cowlishaw gives props to Sox


Frater Perdurabo
12-15-2010, 09:25 PM
Ranks them #2 in the American League, behind Boston (http://timcowlishawblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2010/12/loss-of-lee-drops-rangers-from-2nd-to-6t.html).

soltrain21
12-15-2010, 09:27 PM
He does a funny impression of Al Davis on "Around The Horn." So, kudos to him.

aryzner
12-15-2010, 10:11 PM
That's quite the compliment to rank the Sox above the Yankees. Do you guys think the Sox are better than them? I'm not so sure, but it's possible, I suppose.

DirtySox
12-15-2010, 10:14 PM
That's quite the compliment to rank the Sox above the Yankees. Do you guys think the Sox are better than them? I'm not so sure, but it's possible, I suppose.

Until the Yankees do something about the 4th and 5th rotation spots, I might agree.

asindc
12-15-2010, 10:21 PM
That's quite the compliment to rank the Sox above the Yankees. Do you guys think the Sox are better than them? I'm not so sure, but it's possible, I suppose.

Until the Yankees do something about the 4th and 5th rotation spots, I might agree.

... and their catching situation, unless you think Russell Martin solves that issue for them (I do not).

Frater Perdurabo
12-15-2010, 10:26 PM
As it stands right now, the Sox don't have any holes other than their bullpen.

The Red Sox had an amazing offseason; Gonzalez + Crawford > Konerko + Dunn.

But apart from the Red Sox, the White Sox are the most improved team in the AL.

fusillirob1983
12-15-2010, 10:36 PM
As it stands right now, the Sox don't have any holes other than their bullpen.

The Red Sox had an amazing offseason; Gonzalez + Pierre > Konerko + Dunn.

But apart from the Red Sox, the White Sox are the most improved team in the AL.

I assume you mean Crawford, not Pierre?

Frater Perdurabo
12-15-2010, 10:38 PM
I assume you mean Crawford, not Pierre?

Yes. Fixed. Thank you. :redface:

WhiteSox5187
12-15-2010, 10:38 PM
As it stands right now, the Sox don't have any holes other than their bullpen.

The Red Sox had an amazing offseason; Gonzalez + Pierre > Konerko + Dunn.

But apart from the Red Sox, the White Sox are the most improved team in the AL.

I am a natural worrier so it probably shouldn't come as much as a surprise that I am actually a bit worried about the rotation.

asindc
12-15-2010, 10:40 PM
Until the Yankees do something about the 4th and 5th rotation spots, I might agree.

The other thing I like about Lee going to Philly is that they are going to be that much more competitive against the Twinkees for a starter. Over at nyyfans, Yanks fans are talking up a trade for Buehrle, but they understandably don't want Pavano back (especially after Javy 2.0 predictably backfired).

DirtySox
12-15-2010, 10:42 PM
The other thing I like about Lee going to Philly is that they are going to be that much more competitive against the Twinkees for a starter. Over at nyyfans, Yanks fans are talking up a trade for Buehrle, but they understandably don't want Pavano back (especially after Javy 2.0 predictably backfired).

At Pinstripe Alley I see constant mention of Floyd and Jackson as well. They certainly feel entitled.

DSpivack
12-15-2010, 11:09 PM
At Pinstripe Alley I see constant mention of Floyd and Jackson as well. They certainly feel entitled.

Floyd? Jackson? Buehrle? I find it funny that Yankees fans are envious of our rotation. :cool:

doublem23
12-15-2010, 11:14 PM
I am a natural worrier so it probably shouldn't come as much as a surprise that I am actually a bit worried about the rotation.

Just about every team has reasons to worry about their pitching, if for no other reason than pitchers get hurt so often, but even the Red Sox have a lot of question marks in their rotation. Lester and Buchholz look like the real deal, but Beckett and Lackey didn't look particularly good last year and Dice-K flat out sucks.

They've made significant improvements to their lineup, but they already had the #2 offense in the American League last year, and have done very little to address their pitching problems, where they ranked #9 in the AL.

The only team in baseball right now that probably doesn't have to worry too much about their starting pitching are the Phillies.

DSpivack
12-15-2010, 11:16 PM
Just about every team has reasons to worry about their pitching, if for no other reason than pitchers get hurt so often, but even the Red Sox have a lot of question marks in their rotation. Lester and Buchholz look like the real deal, but Beckett and Lackey didn't look particularly good last year and Dice-K flat out sucks.

They've made significant improvements to their lineup, but they already had the #2 offense in the American League last year, and have done very little to address their pitching problems, where they ranked #9 in the AL.

The only team in baseball right now that probably doesn't have to worry too much about their starting pitching are the Phillies.

Even there, they are paying megabucks for many years to three starting pitchers who are well into their 30s.

TDog
12-15-2010, 11:31 PM
That's quite the compliment to rank the Sox above the Yankees. Do you guys think the Sox are better than them? I'm not so sure, but it's possible, I suppose.

The Sox have better pitching than the Yankees, starting pitching anyway.

Thome25
12-15-2010, 11:36 PM
The Sox have better pitching than the Yankees, starting pitching anyway.

We also have better starters than the Red Sawx IMHO.

doublem23
12-15-2010, 11:37 PM
The Sox have better pitching than the Yankees, starting pitching anyway.

There's more to baseball than just pitching.

MtGrnwdSoxFan
12-15-2010, 11:41 PM
There's more to baseball than just pitching.

But in the long run, great pitching is likely to win you more games than a great offense.

See Texas vs. SF, 2010 World Series. The Giants had almost NO offense, and they won the World Series because their pitching was just that sick when it mattered.

RedHeadPaleHoser
12-16-2010, 07:38 AM
Rating the White Sox above the Yankees will probably cost him his job at ESPN. No teal implied.

soltrain21
12-16-2010, 10:39 AM
Rating the White Sox above the Yankees will probably cost him his job at ESPN. No teal implied.

Not quite.

SouthSideLove
12-16-2010, 11:32 AM
To quote Tim Cowlishaw:

"What if Jake Peavy, the 2007 N.L. Cy Young winner, makes a full recovery from the surgery he had last July after suffering a torn muscle? Without him, I think this team can win the Central. With Peavy, they can contend in the post-season as well."

When it comes to Jake Peavy, the "what if" scenario is a HUGE IF. I'm not convinced that Peavy will ever be the same, and I think he's definitely lost some confidence that he'll be as well.

Yes, the White Sox have a potent offense now with the lefty-righty combo of Dunn-Konerko. We're still slow in the outfield though. Buerhle, as much as I love him, really needs to get back to his 15+ wins per season. I'm tired of him pooping out 12-13 wins a season. Floyd is always a question mark, and Danks is of course a solid 3-4 spot. I definitely have us in the top ten, and I appreciate Cowlishaw's love. But c'mon...two?!

khan
12-16-2010, 11:34 AM
Isn't Cowlishaw one of the mouth-breathing morons that doubted that Sosa and McGwire were steroid cheats?

I haven't seen/read him doing a "mea culpa" over that, although his role at ESPN [where they fall all over themselves to praise each and every athlete] may have prevented him from admitting the truth about roiders.


In any case, he is an imbecile whose major daily accomplishment is to not drool all over himself.

SI1020
12-16-2010, 11:44 AM
Isn't Cowlishaw one of the mouth-breathing morons that doubted that Sosa and McGwire were steroid cheats?
I don't know what he wrote or blogged about them prior to this year, but you might find this blog from January interesting.


http://timcowlishawblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2010/01/ten-things-to-consider-on-mark.html

asindc
12-16-2010, 12:00 PM
To quote Tim Cowlishaw:

"What if Jake Peavy, the 2007 N.L. Cy Young winner, makes a full recovery from the surgery he had last July after suffering a torn muscle? Without him, I think this team can win the Central. With Peavy, they can contend in the post-season as well."

When it comes to Jake Peavy, the "what if" scenario is a HUGE IF. I'm not convinced that Peavy will ever be the same, and I think he's definitely lost some confidence that he'll be as well.

Yes, the White Sox have a potent offense now with the lefty-righty combo of Dunn-Konerko. We're still slow in the outfield though. Buerhle, as much as I love him, really needs to get back to his 15+ wins per season. I'm tired of him pooping out 12-13 wins a season. Floyd is always a question mark, and Danks is of course a solid 3-4 spot. I definitely have us in the top ten, and I appreciate Cowlishaw's love. But c'mon...two?!

Juan Pierre and Alex Rios are on the phone. They would like to know why you said that.


As for our pitching situation, even without Peavy, we are in better shape at this point than the Twinkees, Detroit, and the Yanks.

SouthSideLove
12-16-2010, 12:13 PM
Juan Pierre and Alex Rios are on the phone. They would like to know why you said that.

Speed in the outfield does not only relate to pure athletic speed. It also involves reading the ball off of the bat, getting goods jumps, and anticipating angles. Granted, Rios can do that, but don't tell me that Quentin and Pierre aren't liabilities in the outfield. They are, and it makes our defense weaker.

asindc
12-16-2010, 12:21 PM
Speed in the outfield does not only relate to pure athletic speed. It also involves reading the ball off of the bat, getting goods jumps, and anticipating angles. Granted, Rios can do that, but don't tell me that Quentin and Pierre aren't liabilities in the outfield. They are, and it makes our defense weaker.

Your comment was about how slow our OF is. Pierre's only liability is his arm. Besides, Quentin is no slower than the average OF. Now, if by slow you meant subpar, I wouldn't have commented, though I don't think our overall OF is subpar defensively relative to OFs on other teams.

SouthSideLove
12-16-2010, 12:24 PM
[QUOTE=asindc;2665728]Besides, Quentin is no slower than the average OF.[QUOTE]

Are you serious? And yes, beyond being slow, subpar would also characterize this outfield.

Red Barchetta
12-16-2010, 12:31 PM
Consider me a realist, however even though the White Sox have been active, I really don't see too much improvement on paper compared to last season.

They resigned Konerko and AJ. Great, I like them both, however since they were both on the team last season, it's net even.

They sign Dunn which I agree is a significant improvement over the Kotsay/Jones DH experiment.

They sign Crain to help solidify the bullpen and move out Linebrink. Great! Another improvement on paper.

However, we lost Putz and we are passing on Jenks. Even though Jenk's issues have been well documented and I agree it's time to move on, we still have questions as to whether or not Thornton and/or Sale can become the everyday closer or whether Ozzie will again close by committee.

That leads to the starting rotation. It will be great to have Jackson for the entire year, however I for one am not counting on Peavy coming back before the All-Star game and when he does, I don't expect him to be the same type of power pitcher he was before his injury. That leaves a question mark in the starting rotation. I think Danks and Jackson are solid. Buehrle will be Buehrle and I hope Floyd's game returns to form and he can be more consistent. Will Garcia be able to step up again as the #5 or did we get lucky last season? Will Sale move into the starting rotation?

asindc
12-16-2010, 12:33 PM
Are you serious? And yes, beyond being slow, subpar would also characterize this outfield.

Like I asked, subpar relative to how many other teams?

Yes, I'm serious. A sample list of OFs who were regular starters last year:

Jason Kubel*
Michael Cuddyer*
Magglio Ordonez*
Nelson Cruz
Juan Rivera*
Bobby Abreu*

And that's just the AL. The * is for guys who played in bigger OFs than Comiskey's. If you rather have Kubel, Cuddyer, Ordonez, or Rivera playing defense in our OF than Quentin (let alone Pierre, because that would be truly ridiculous), then we simply disagree.

SouthSideLove
12-16-2010, 12:42 PM
Like I asked, subpar relative to how many other teams?

Yes, I'm serious. A sample list of OFs who were regular starters last year:

Jason Kubel*
Michael Cuddyer*
Magglio Ordonez*
Nelson Cruz
Juan Rivera*
Bobby Abreu*

And that's just the AL. The * is for guys who played in bigger OFs than Comiskey's. If you rather have Kubel, Cuddyer, Ordonez, or Rivera playing defense in our OF than Quentin (let alone Pierre, because that would be truly ridiculous), then we simply disagree.

Anybody can pick a sample list of guys who are slow. But how many of those teams have two or more outfielders who ae slow and a liability. Not too many. The guys you mentioned, while I wouldn't want them on the Sox, are the slowest guys on their respective teams, but have guys around them who make up for it. Agree to disagree.

Boondock Saint
12-16-2010, 12:45 PM
Speed in the outfield does not only relate to pure athletic speed. It also involves reading the ball off of the bat, getting goods jumps, and anticipating angles. Granted, Rios can do that, but don't tell me that Quentin and Pierre aren't liabilities in the outfield. They are, and it makes our defense weaker.

[QUOTE=asindc;2665728]Besides, Quentin is no slower than the average OF.

Are you serious? And yes, beyond being slow, subpar would also characterize this outfield.Are people forgetting, or just choosing to ignore that Pierre had an above average season defensively in LF last year?

asindc
12-16-2010, 12:55 PM
Anybody can pick a sample list of guys who are slow. But how many of those teams have two or more outfielders who ae slow and a liability. Not too many. The guys you mentioned, while I wouldn't want them on the Sox, are the slowest guys on their respective teams, but have guys around them who make up for it. Agree to disagree.

I could go on to the NL and list guys there, but I don't think it's necessary to prove my point. To answer your question, the Twinkees and LAAAAAAA just from the list. No, I don't think Denard Span's defense makes up for 2-knee-operation Cuddyer or slower-than-Quentin Kubel in that OF anymore than Rios makes up for Quentin's defense in ours. Ditto Jackson with Ordonez in that big OF. Especially Ditto for 34-year-old Torii Hunter with Rivera and Abreu in that big OF.

I agree on this point: Yes, anyone could have put this list together, given that so many examples were so easily researched, which is why I'm surprised that you consider our overall defensive OF subpar.

khan
12-16-2010, 01:04 PM
I don't know what he wrote or blogged about them prior to this year, but you might find this blog from January interesting.


http://timcowlishawblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2010/01/ten-things-to-consider-on-mark.html

I hadn't read that because I'd given up on his dumb ass. But his previous comments about Sosa and McGwire were contrary to ones in the link you posted. He's windsocking here, without including the full disclosure of him having supported steroid cheats in the past.

In any case, Cowlishaw is a mope, a moron, and exhibit #10,000 of why low-quality journalism IS a major reason for the newspaper industry's impending doom.

asindc
12-16-2010, 01:09 PM
Are people forgetting, or just choosing to ignore that Pierre had an above average season defensively in LF last year?

That quote is not entirely mine. My actual post is below.

Your comment was about how slow our OF is. Pierre's only liability is his arm. Besides, Quentin is no slower than the average OF. Now, if by slow you meant subpar, I wouldn't have commented, though I don't think our overall OF is subpar defensively relative to OFs on other teams.

palehozenychicty
12-17-2010, 12:26 PM
Just about every team has reasons to worry about their pitching, if for no other reason than pitchers get hurt so often, but even the Red Sox have a lot of question marks in their rotation. Lester and Buchholz look like the real deal, but Beckett and Lackey didn't look particularly good last year and Dice-K flat out sucks.

They've made significant improvements to their lineup, but they already had the #2 offense in the American League last year, and have done very little to address their pitching problems, where they ranked #9 in the AL.

The only team in baseball right now that probably doesn't have to worry too much about their starting pitching are the Phillies.

This is why I'm not completely sold on them either. Those three are all overpaid and declining.