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gr8mexico
12-12-2010, 11:36 AM
Nick Gafardo from the Boston Globe (http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/articles/2010/12/12/not_everybody_met_with_success_this_past_week/?page=3) is saying that the Sox will listen to offers for Mark Buehrle.
I wonder if the Cardinals would be interested

beasly213
12-12-2010, 11:38 AM
Mark has to approve the trade... and I don't think his value is too high right now.

Boondock Saint
12-12-2010, 11:44 AM
Mark has to approve the trade... and I don't think his value is too high right now.

Plus the fact that he's owed $14m year, and his $15m option for 2012 automatically vests if he's traded. Mark Buehrle is a tough sell.

DirtySox
12-12-2010, 11:48 AM
Plus the fact that he's owed $14m year, and his $15m option for 2012 automatically vests if he's traded. Mark Buehrle is a tough sell.

That trade clause disappeared after he gained 10-5 rights.

Boondock Saint
12-12-2010, 11:52 AM
That trade clause disappeared after he gained 10-5 rights.

Are you sure about that? I'd never heard anything like that.

DirtySox
12-12-2010, 11:54 AM
Are you sure about that? I'd never heard anything like that.

I've read it on a few Sox sites from people I would consider reputable posters. Take it as you will. I'll try to find something a bit more concrete though.

Noneck
12-12-2010, 12:08 PM
I dont see the Sox getting much considering they would have to salt and pepper a similar % as they did with Linebrink.

getonbckthr
12-12-2010, 12:22 PM
Ultimately I think it depends on who gets Cliff Lee. If the Yankees sign him I could see Texas be willing to give up some things for a Buerhle.

DirtySox
12-12-2010, 12:28 PM
Ultimately I think it depends on who gets Cliff Lee. If the Yankees sign him I could see Texas be willing to give up some things for a Buerhle.

I think Texas goes hard after Greinke if they lose out on Lee.

gr8mexico
12-12-2010, 12:30 PM
I dont see the Sox getting much considering they would have to salt and pepper a similar % as they did with Linebrink.
If the Sox made Mark Buehrle available he would be the 3rd best pitcher available right now. Behind Cliff Lee and Zack Greinke and I'm almost sure they wouldn't need to kick in any money.
Mark is a 4X All Star, World Series pitcher and Gold Glove winner that would actually have better numbers is he would pitch for an NL team like the Cardinals.

VMSNS
12-12-2010, 12:32 PM
I think Texas goes hard after Greinke if they lose out on Lee.

I think Pavano or Garza are more likely/realistic targets for Texas. Kansas City apparently wants a king's ransom for Greinke.

PicktoCLick72
12-12-2010, 12:43 PM
I think Pavano or Garza are more likely/realistic targets for Texas. Kansas City apparently wants a king's ransom for Greinke.

As well they should.

KMcMahon817
12-12-2010, 12:45 PM
If the Sox made Mark Buehrle available he would be the 3rd best pitcher available right now. Behind Cliff Lee and Zack Greinke and I'm almost sure they wouldn't need to kick in any money.
Mark is a 4X All Star, World Series pitcher and Gold Glove winner that would actually have better numbers is he would pitch for an NL team like the Cardinals.

This. A lot of teams would be interested in Buerhle. I just think we either pick up a good portion of his salary in order to get a good return, or we more or less dump his salary on someone else and only get a prospect or two.

With that said, I would be shocked if Mark were traded. I think KW was just saying he would listen to offers. That's his job.

Domeshot17
12-12-2010, 12:52 PM
This is very smart. Buehrle is our 5th best SP making almost 15 million per. IF we could move him for a good return and free up 5 mil to shore up our pen and sign a quality back end starter for 5 mil, the team is better off.

Lets say we could trade Buehrle for a quality closer. Use 5 mil to sign a solid set up man and another MR and used the other 5 mil on a guy like Jake Westbrook or Brandon Webb, the team would be far better off.

ChicagoG19
12-12-2010, 01:14 PM
Mark Buehrle is my favorite player right now. I hope we do not trade him and he can play out his career with the White Sox.

SOXfnNlansing
12-12-2010, 01:24 PM
He's 38 games over .500 with an era under 4.00 The past 5 seasons he is only 6 games over .500. I guess the numbers would say he's expendable. I just know if the Sox are to somehow get in a position to make a playoff run, Mark is a winner no matter the regular season numbers. He is very cool under fire. I'd keep him for that reason.

SoxNation05
12-12-2010, 01:39 PM
This is very smart. Buehrle is our 5th best SP making almost 15 million per. IF we could move him for a good return and free up 5 mil to shore up our pen and sign a quality back end starter for 5 mil, the team is better off.

Lets say we could trade Buehrle for a quality closer. Use 5 mil to sign a solid set up man and another MR and used the other 5 mil on a guy like Jake Westbrook or Brandon Webb, the team would be far better off.

Westbrook signed with the Cards.

Webb throws 84 right now.

canOcorn
12-12-2010, 01:51 PM
I've read it on a few Sox sites from people I would consider reputable posters. Take it as you will. I'll try to find something a bit more concrete though.

I agree that the '12 guarantee went away when he gained 10 & 5 rights. Cot's agrees....

http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2005/01/chicago-white-sox.html

Marqhead
12-12-2010, 01:52 PM
Why would any team want to acquire a balk machine and the wrath of Joe West?

Boondock Saint
12-12-2010, 01:54 PM
I agree that the '12 guarantee went away when he gained 10 & 5 rights. Cot's agrees....

http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2005/01/chicago-white-sox.html

That doesn't say anything about the trigger being nullified by his 10-5 rights. I don't see how or why 10-5 rights would nullify a contract clause.

DirtySox
12-12-2010, 01:57 PM
That doesn't say anything about the trigger being nullified by his 10-5 rights. I don't see how or why 10-5 rights would nullify a contract clause.

I think he means that Cot's shows it by listing that escalator clause as dated from 2009 - July 15th 2010 where as he gains his 10-5 rights the day after it ends.

Boondock Saint
12-12-2010, 02:05 PM
I think he means that Cot's shows it by listing that escalator clause as dated from 2009 - July 15th 2010 where as he gains his 10-5 rights the day after it ends.

Well, I think that's referring to the limited no-trade clause being nullified. I think the escalator still applies. I could be wrong, though.

Domeshot17
12-12-2010, 02:07 PM
He's 38 games over .500 with an era under 4.00 The past 5 seasons he is only 6 games over .500. I guess the numbers would say he's expendable. I just know if the Sox are to somehow get in a position to make a playoff run, Mark is a winner no matter the regular season numbers. He is very cool under fire. I'd keep him for that reason.

This doesn't pass the smell test. Mark was the biggest reason we didn't make the playoffs in 2006, he sunk us in plenty of big games when we were in it last year. 5 years ago yes, but at this stage, Mark is NOT a big game pitcher, he is little more than an innings eater. His most valuable trait is his durability and that he can always give you 200 IP.

Noneck
12-12-2010, 02:11 PM
If the Sox made Mark Buehrle available he would be the 3rd best pitcher available right now. Behind Cliff Lee and Zack Greinke and I'm almost sure they wouldn't need to kick in any money.
Mark is a 4X All Star, World Series pitcher and Gold Glove winner that would actually have better numbers is he would pitch for an NL team like the Cardinals.

This. A lot of teams would be interested in Buerhle. I just think we either pick up a good portion of his salary in order to get a good return, or we more or less dump his salary on someone else and only get a prospect or two.

With that said, I would be shocked if Mark were traded. I think KW was just saying he would listen to offers. That's his job.

If you are both correct, then the Sox should be able to get their gold mine and free up 14M.

I say go for it, get some top notch prospects, some relief help, a closer, a starting RFer, a young defensive good hitting LFer for 2012 and may still have some extra money for a trade deadline deal.

This would be quite a deal for someone who is probably the Sox 5th starter this year, is only under contract for this year and is basically a .500 pitcher in recent time.

aryzner
12-12-2010, 02:14 PM
I agree with the first replies by beasly123 and Boondock Saint. I just don't see it happening, and I don't think there's much to the little blurb about Burls in there.

A good GM should listen to serious offers on any player, regardless of who they are. Of course KW will listen, but making anything happen is another story altogether.

WhiteSox5187
12-12-2010, 02:17 PM
This doesn't pass the smell test. Mark was the biggest reason we didn't make the playoffs in 2006, he sunk us in plenty of big games when we were in it last year. 5 years ago yes, but at this stage, Mark is NOT a big game pitcher, he is little more than an innings eater. His most valuable trait is his durability and that he can always give you 200 IP.

He was bad in 2006 because he had pitched about 260 innings the year before (including the post season), he was fairly good in the first half of that year but was gassed in the second half as was EVERYONE on that pitching staff. But in 2007 he bounced back and had a great year on an AWFUL team (had he been on a team that was even .500 he might have won 15 games). In 2008 he won a crucial game against Cleveland to force the make up game against Detroit and led to game 163 and lost a heart breaker to Minnesota. He was an All Star in 2009 and was our best pitcher in September of that year. I still think he has something left in the tank, he's not an ace and hasn't really lived up to his contract but I think he is a very good number three. Also, if he goes who takes up those innings?

Boondock Saint
12-12-2010, 02:22 PM
He was bad in 2006 because he had pitched about 260 innings the year before (including the post season), he was fairly good in the first half of that year but was gassed in the second half as was EVERYONE on that pitching staff. But in 2007 he bounced back and had a great year on an AWFUL team (had he been on a team that was even .500 he might have won 15 games). In 2008 he won a crucial game against Cleveland to force the make up game against Detroit and led to game 163 and lost a heart breaker to Minnesota. He was an All Star in 2009 and was our best pitcher in September of that year. I still think he has something left in the tank, he's not an ace and hasn't really lived up to his contract but I think he is a very good number three. Also, if he goes who takes up those innings?

You start Sale and sign Garcia.

WhiteSox5187
12-12-2010, 02:34 PM
You start Sale and sign Garcia.

That seems like a bad idea to me. The rotation would then consist of John Danks, Gavin Floyd, Edwin Jackson, Chris Sale and Freddy Garcia? That's a lot of holes there. You have Edwin Jackson who has never had a full good season, Chris Sale who has never started a game in professional baseball, and then you have Freddy who put up similar numbers to Buerhle but with fewer innings pitched and a higher ERA. I think Buerhle is the third best starter on our staff now and the fourth (maybe still the third best) when Peavy gets back.

Boondock Saint
12-12-2010, 02:37 PM
That seems like a bad idea to me. The rotation would then consist of John Danks, Gavin Floyd, Edwin Jackson, Chris Sale and Freddy Garcia? That's a lot of holes there. You have Edwin Jackson who has never had a full good season, Chris Sale who has never started a game in professional baseball, and then you have Freddy who put up similar numbers to Buerhle but with fewer innings pitched and a higher ERA. I think Buerhle is the third best starter on our staff now and the fourth (maybe still the third best) when Peavy gets back.

It consists of those guys until Peavy returns. Then, you can move Garcia to the 'pen, or trade him if he's doing well.

WhiteSox5187
12-12-2010, 03:29 PM
It consists of those guys until Peavy returns. Then, you can move Garcia to the 'pen, or trade him if he's doing well.

You'd have to keep one of them in the rotation and both of them are risks. I'm not convinced Edwin Jackson is all that good and God only knows what we're going to get out of Peavy this year. I say keep Buerhle.

forrestg
12-12-2010, 04:21 PM
anyone that can pitch 200 while maintaining a winning record would be a welcome addition to any team even Boston and the yankees would see him as an asset worth acquiring. In the national league I believe his value would be even higher. Buehrle has been the anchor for our pitching staff. Sure we could save 14 or 15 million but what pitcher in all of baseball can deliver the innings and quality starts that Mark provides.

TheVulture
12-12-2010, 04:27 PM
You have Edwin Jackson who has never had a full good season

2009 he pitched 214 innings to a 3.62 ERA.

LITTLE NELL
12-12-2010, 04:51 PM
Bad idea to trade Mark, you can never have enough pitching and the man knows how to pitch.

kittle42
12-12-2010, 05:07 PM
anyone that can pitch 200 while maintaining a winning record would be a welcome addition to any team even Boston and the yankees would see him as an asset worth acquiring. In the national league I believe his value would be even higher. Buehrle has been the anchor for our pitching staff. Sure we could save 14 or 15 million but what pitcher in all of baseball can deliver the innings and quality starts that Mark provides.

Buehrle is completely expendable at that salary. This isn't the Buehrle from past years anymore, everyone. I love him as much as the next Sox fan, but if they could unload him to fill the other needs we have, I'm all for it.

Domeshot17
12-12-2010, 05:27 PM
Buehrle is completely expendable at that salary. This isn't the Buehrle from past years anymore, everyone. I love him as much as the next Sox fan, but if they could unload him to fill the other needs we have, I'm all for it.

That is exactly how I feel. Hell I haven't changed my sig in almost 4 years (pre Buehrle extension). He is a hell of a competitor. But at 15 million a year, trading him could mean the Sox have a much better chance to win a world series.

Domeshot17
12-12-2010, 05:28 PM
anyone that can pitch 200 while maintaining a winning record would be a welcome addition to any team even Boston and the yankees would see him as an asset worth acquiring. In the national league I believe his value would be even higher. Buehrle has been the anchor for our pitching staff. Sure we could save 14 or 15 million but what pitcher in all of baseball can deliver the innings and quality starts that Mark provides.

Do you really need a list of pitchers who are way better than Burls?

cws05champ
12-12-2010, 05:50 PM
Do you really need a list of pitchers who are way better than Burls?
They are plenty of pitchers that are way better than Mark, but the question was how many are consistently going to give you a guaranteed 200+ innings and quality starts. I know that $14M is a lot to pay Mark this year, but he is the type of player that can't just be measured by his numbers. He is a leader in the clubhouse, keeps guys loose and by all accounts is one of the best teammates you could have.

I just think that if the Sox are "All in" why trade one of your premium players if if doesn't help you this year. I really worry that our rotation will be a weakness if we trade one of these guys from our rotation(MB or Floyd). Unless you are getting an unbelievable haul I just wouldn't trade him.

Domeshot17
12-12-2010, 06:01 PM
They are plenty of pitchers that are way better than Mark, but the question was how many are consistently going to give you a guaranteed 200+ innings and quality starts. I know that $14M is a lot to pay Mark this year, but he is the type of player that can't just be measured by his numbers. He is a leader in the clubhouse, keeps guys loose and by all accounts is one of the best teammates you could have.

I just think that if the Sox are "All in" why trade one of your premium players if if doesn't help you this year. I really worry that our rotation will be a weakness if we trade one of these guys from our rotation(MB or Floyd). Unless you are getting an unbelievable haul I just wouldn't trade him.

The problem is, he is a premium player by name and salary only. In terms of talent, he is the weakest SP we have. I would compare Trading Buehrle to round out the team to the Red Sox trading Nomar.

In terms of the question for Quality Starts, Buehrle was tied for 46th last year and was tied for 36th 2 years ago.

Noneck
12-12-2010, 06:26 PM
In terms of the question for Quality Starts, Buehrle was tied for 46th last year and was tied for 36th 2 years ago.


So many people listen to the Harrelson hype about Buehrle being like Catfish Hunter. Hes a grossly overpaid, innings eater, barely .500 for over 5 years, who would be a 4th or 5th starter on a team with a decent pitching staff.

WhiteSox5187
12-12-2010, 06:28 PM
2009 he pitched 214 innings to a 3.62 ERA.

In the second half of 2009 Jackson had a 5.05 ERA and a 1.5 WHIP, that's not exactly a solid season.

ZombieRob
12-12-2010, 07:25 PM
Question is this. Why is he getting gassed in the 2nd half of the season since the world series? I'm guessing on this, but I don't think he has a winning record in aug or sept since the WS. sure he's an innings eater, but don't we get that out of Garcia for a lot less?

tacosalbarojas
12-12-2010, 07:35 PM
He also has talked quite a bit about retiring after this contract. Whether its b.s. or not, you can argue. But he's talked openly about it a number of times...enough so that other teams have probably heard about it. Could affect his tradeability as well.

soxinem1
12-12-2010, 07:44 PM
IMHO, this rotation is not as deep as it believed by some.

Floyd was not solid last year. He was a key reason for the slow start and only pitched well for about six weeks.

Jackson has the track record of a 5th starter.

Peavy is coming off an unprecendented injury for a pitcher. Plus he is not very fluid mechanically so you cannot count on him once the bell tolls.

Danks was the most consistent, but he sure was no help down the stretch.

Buehrle was Buehrle since 2006, a near .500 pitcher. But we need the innings so depending on Garcia, if he's on the team, to toss even more than he did in 2010 is silly.

Sale really looks funky in his delivery, I'm not sure if he is a starter at the MLB level.

So to summarize, trading Buehrle for some prospects, even if it is doable, is probably not adviseable under the current situation.

ZombieRob
12-12-2010, 07:47 PM
IMHO, this rotation is not as deep as it believed by some.

Floyd was not solid last year. He was a key reason for the slow start and only pitched well for about six weeks.

Jackson has the track record of a 5th starter.

Peavy is coming off an unprecendented injury for a pitcher. Plus he is not very fluid mechanically so you cannot count on him once the bell tolls.

Danks was the most consistent, but he sure was no help down the stretch.

Buehrle was Buehrle since 2006, a near .500 pitcher. But we need the innings so depending on Garcia, if he's on the team, to toss even more than he did in 2010 is silly.

Sale really looks funky in his delivery, I'm not sure if he is a starter at the MLB level.

So to summarize, trading Buehrle for some prospects, even if it is doable, is probably not adviseable under the current situation.
Good observations. I prefer Sale in the pen myself. I just see people in love with his stuff, but that motion is very violent IMO, and he is a frail kid.

Lip Man 1
12-12-2010, 09:34 PM
I would be very surprised if Buehrle went anywhere unless the Sox signed another free agent starting pitcher first. If they do, that could be a tip-off that something's going on.

Lip

DumpJerry
12-12-2010, 09:40 PM
Sale really looks funky in his delivery, I'm not sure if he is a starter at the MLB level.

Good observations. I prefer Sale in the pen myself. I just see people in love with his stuff, but that motion is very violent IMO, and he is a frail kid.
Sale, as long as he remains healthy, will develop into one feared starter. He's the next Big Unit.

WhiteSox5187
12-12-2010, 09:52 PM
Sale, as long as he remains healthy, will develop into one feared starter. He's the next Big Unit.

I hope you're right by remember, Randy Johnson was 25 when he was done in the minors and had started 80 games with 418.1 innings pitched and seldom appeared out of the bullpen in Montreal. Sale has started zero games in professional baseball with 44 innings pitched in the pros. I think if Sale is going to be a starter he needs to be stretched out in the minors and shouldn't be used by the Sox as a starter in the big leagues next year.

Boondock Saint
12-12-2010, 11:02 PM
Good observations. I prefer Sale in the pen myself. I just see people in love with his stuff, but that motion is very violent IMO, and he is a frail kid.

The very same thing was said about Tim Lincecum. I'm not saying that Sale is or will be as good, but you get the point. You can't not give him a chance because of what might happen.

guillensdisciple
12-12-2010, 11:31 PM
Love Mark, but I think his time as a reliable top of the pitching staff guy are over. If he's an inexpensive fourth or fifth, I would definitely keep him, but with the money he is getting paid I don't think he is worth it.

gr8mexico
12-13-2010, 10:21 AM
http://riveraveblues.com/2010/12/mailbag-mark-buehrle-39826/
A good read by Mike Axisa (http://riveraveblues.com/author/maxisa/)

g0g0
12-13-2010, 10:25 AM
Bad idea to trade Mark, you can never have enough pitching and the man knows how to pitch.

+1 Keep him he's solid.

DumpJerry
12-13-2010, 10:40 AM
http://riveraveblues.com/2010/12/mailbag-mark-buehrle-39826/
A good read by Mike Axisa (http://riveraveblues.com/author/maxisa/)
First, my eyes went :wired:over all the stats and then he admits he did not know what he was talking about when he updated the story-kinda throws out a lot of assumptions he makes in the body of the article. He should have researched the contract along with all those stats.

doublem23
12-13-2010, 10:48 AM
Question is this. Why is he getting gassed in the 2nd half of the season since the world series? I'm guessing on this, but I don't think he has a winning record in aug or sept since the WS. sure he's an innings eater, but don't we get that out of Garcia for a lot less?

The only problem with Garcia over Buehrle is the durability factor, Buehrle has been a SP in the league since 2001 and has never landed on the disabled list a feat that is almost mind boggling at this point. Garcia may give you "the same thing" as Buehrle, but if you choose him over Mark, you'd better be prepared for a whole lot of Lucas Harrell, Charlie Leesman, or Jeff Marquez starts because the odds of Freddy lasting from April to October injury-free at next to nothing at this point.

Buehrle may not be the best pitcher on this team any more but he shows up every 5th day and still is a MLB-quality pitcher most of those starts. I just don't know if we have the SP depth in the organization to be able to easily replace him.

doublem23
12-13-2010, 10:54 AM
First, my eyes went :wired:over all the stats and then he admits he did not know what he was talking about when he updated the story-kinda throws out a lot of assumptions he makes in the body of the article. He should have researched the contract along with all those stats.

I'm not sure exactly which stats made your eyes bug out; IP? K-rate? % of ground balls?

As for the contract, nobody seems to know what the deal with that vesting option on Buehrle's contract is even here, so I can pardon a Yankee blogger for not intimately knowing every nook and cranny of Buehrle's contract. The read about his performance is the focus here, and it should go as fair warning to all those ready to dump Mark overboard that while he's not the pitcher he was 5 years ago, he's not someone that you can just find under any rock. He still brings a lot of value to an contending team.

DumpJerry
12-13-2010, 11:04 AM
The only problem with Garcia over Buehrle is the durability factor, Buehrle has been a SP in the league since 2001 and has never landed on the disabled list a feat that is almost mind boggling at this point. Garcia may give you "the same thing" as Buehrle, but if you choose him over Mark, you'd better be prepared for a whole lot of Lucas Harrell, Charlie Leesman, or Jeff Marquez starts because the odds of Freddy lasting from April to October injury-free at next to nothing at this point.

Buehrle may not be the best pitcher on this team any more but he shows up every 5th day and still is a MLB-quality pitcher most of those starts. I just don't know if we have the SP depth in the organization to be able to easily replace him.
Spot on. Ozzie made a bet last season with Garcia where Ozzie predicted he (Garcia) would be on the DL before July 31st. Ozzie was pleased he lost the bet and mentioned it was the first time that he knew of that Garcia went that deep into a season without a trip to the DL.

AzureJazzMan
12-13-2010, 01:17 PM
So, if St. Louis wants Buehrle and Viciedo for Colby Rasmus (http://cardinals.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=458675), would no one be interested, then?

russ99
12-13-2010, 01:26 PM
So, if St. Louis wants Buehrle and Viciedo for Colby Rasmus (http://cardinals.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=458675), would no one be interested, then?

Sure... if they throw in Kyle McClellan

slavko
12-13-2010, 01:44 PM
Mark, at this point, is an inning-eater with a halo. He earned the halo, no question, but he's being richly rewarded for it, so I won't feel so bad if some needy team takes him off our hands. Some of you will have a conniption if it happens, but not I.

asindc
12-13-2010, 01:53 PM
Mark, at this point, is an inning-eater with a halo. He earned the halo, no question, but he's being richly rewarded for it, so I won't feel so bad if some needy team takes him off our hands. Some of you will have a conniption if it happens, but not I.

My sentiments exactly.

Corlose 15
12-13-2010, 02:06 PM
The thought of Mark Buehrle pitching for the Yankees makes me sick. That's not to say the Sox couldn't get a deal done with the Yankees that would make them better but I would HATE seeing Buehrle in that uniform.

A. Cavatica
12-13-2010, 02:32 PM
So, if St. Louis wants Buehrle and Viciedo for Colby Rasmus (http://cardinals.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=458675), would no one be interested, then?

I sure wouldn't. Buehrle by himself still has a ton of value. Lefthanded starting pitchers who can be counted on for 200+ innings and winning records, season after season, are rare birds. And once Cliff Lee signs, Buehrle's contract will look reasonable again.

WhiteSox5187
12-13-2010, 03:06 PM
I sure wouldn't. Buehrle by himself still has a ton of value. Lefthanded starting pitchers who can be counted on for 200+ innings and winning records, season after season, are rare birds. And once Cliff Lee signs, Buehrle's contract will look reasonable again.

It will look reasonable in years six and seven of the Lee deal but right now Lee is a much better pitcher than Buerhle. I don't mind the idea of trading Buerhle and were it to get a guy like Rasmus I'd make that deal, but what gives me pause is the thought of who replaces him. I for one think our pitching looks pretty thin right now even with Buerhle and I think without him it would look even thinner. Pitching wins titles, there have been plenty of years where we have had a great offense but no pitching to back it up (or even just missing the fifth starter has cost us division titles in 1996, 2003 and possibly 2004). I don't want to go down that road again.

sullythered
12-13-2010, 03:16 PM
Why does everybody seem so OK with the idea of us trading a starting pitcher when we currently have only 4 proven and healthy starters in our rotation?

WhiteSox5187
12-13-2010, 03:23 PM
Why does everybody seem so OK with the idea of us trading a starting pitcher when we currently have only 4 proven and healthy starters in our rotation?

I would also argue that one of them, Edwin Jackson, isn't really all that good.

Noneck
12-13-2010, 04:29 PM
Why does everybody seem so OK with the idea of us trading a starting pitcher when we currently have only 4 proven and healthy starters in our rotation?

Its a crazy idea but maybe with part of the 14m salary saved, the Sox might be able to find a 5th starter for next year.

russ99
12-13-2010, 04:48 PM
Its a crazy idea but maybe with part of the 14m salary saved, the Sox might be able to find a 5th starter for next year.

Or bring in a good closer and move Sale to the rotation and have some cash left over for other additions.

I guess it comes down to one thing. Is Mark coming back after next season? If that's a no, then maybe it would be good to acquire something of value for him.

Personally, I'm a big fan of Mark and hope he retires with the Sox, but baseball-wise he's not an ace anymore and recent free agent mid-rotation inning eaters with his numbers the last 2 years have been signing for about half his 2011 salary.

Daver
12-13-2010, 04:59 PM
Its a crazy idea but maybe with part of the 14m salary saved, the Sox might be able to find a 5th starter for next year.

You need to find two starters, Peavy will not be in the rotation on opening day.

Noneck
12-13-2010, 05:10 PM
You need to find two starters, Peavy will not be in the rotation on opening day.

Maybe so but with the off days, hopefully some cold weather postponements, and some Pena or whoever spot starts, they can get by till Peavy returns. Now if Peavy doesnt return till summertime, they are screwed with or without Buehrle.

SOXfnNlansing
12-13-2010, 06:11 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/Good-guys-wear-black-Mark-Buehrle-pays-bills-fo?urn=mlb-295219

MUsoxfan
12-13-2010, 06:19 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/Good-guys-wear-black-Mark-Buehrle-pays-bills-fo?urn=mlb-295219

I really need to stop reading comments on news stories. Some of the things those ****heads are saying is unbelievable

DumpJerry
12-13-2010, 06:43 PM
Why does everybody seem so OK with the idea of us trading a starting pitcher when we currently have only 4 proven and healthy starters in our rotation?

Because some people think they can do a better job than Kenny. These are the same people who are not being interviewed by Uncle Jerry for any GM openings.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/Good-guys-wear-black-Mark-Buehrle-pays-bills-fo?urn=mlb-295219
Hunting arrow, huh? I'm guessing that was an errant shot by Mr. Buehrle himself and he did this out of guilt.......

HBaines03
12-13-2010, 09:11 PM
I think the likelihood that Buerhle is traded is very slim. I'm sure the organization is listening but not many teams want to take on pitchers making that much and where we are financially we aren't looking to flip most of the bill. I think we need to keep Buerhle for stability to this staff right now. Peavy is a big question mark right now on when he returns and how he will perform. Gavin has been struggling with injuries the last 2 years and you can't rely on Sale to come in and pitch a full season as a starter unless you want to destroy his arm (ask the Cubs). I tend to think we will look to trade from an obvious overflow which happens to be 3rd base. We have Teahan, Vizquel, Brent Morel, and Dayan Viciedo. I think if the team had its choice Teahan would be the guy gone but he is probably the least attractive of the full season type guys. Morel is tabbed as the possible starter and Viciedo is still looked upon highly. I also think KW has learned that anything can happen with bullpen guys.

I think Buerhle stays, Sale goes to the pen and we see Flowers traded along with other/s for a reliever.

Brian26
12-13-2010, 10:19 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/Good-guys-wear-black-Mark-Buehrle-pays-bills-fo?urn=mlb-295219

Wait, stop the presses. Buehrle wants to pitch for the Cardinals someday? Wow, I've never heard that one before.

KMcMahon817
12-13-2010, 11:36 PM
Since Lee is signing with the Phillies, maybe the Yankees interest in Mark will increase.

But, if they're going to deal him, I want that 14 million spent on a closer and a decent 4th/5th starter.

I really don't want Mark to go, but...that really could help.

Mark probably wouldn't even want to play for the Yankees anyways. :shrug:

DirtySox
12-13-2010, 11:40 PM
Since Lee is signing with the Phillies, maybe the Yankees interest in Mark will increase.

But, if they're going to deal him, I want that 14 million spent on a closer and a decent 4th/5th starter.

I really don't want Mark to go, but...that really could help.

Mark probably wouldn't even want to play for the Yankees anyways. :shrug:

It's not MB, but Cashman inquired about Danks at the winter meetings and:

http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/262579268/sherman3_normal.jpg
Joelsherman1 (http://twitter.com/#%21/Joelsherman1) Joel Sherman
#Whitesox (http://twitter.com/#%21/search?q=%23Whitesox) (who like #Yankees (http://twitter.com/#%21/search?q=%23Yankees) prospects) would consider moving Jackson/Floyd, #Marlins (http://twitter.com/#%21/search?q=%23Marlins) Nolasco (Girardi managed him). that is level available
46 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/#%21/Joelsherman1/status/14543358001152000)

doublem23
12-13-2010, 11:50 PM
It's not MB, but Cashman inquired about Danks at the winter meetings and:



I certainly hope KW told Cashman he wanted a king's ransom or to stuff it up his ass

DirtySox
12-13-2010, 11:52 PM
I certainly hope KW told Cashman he wanted a king's ransom or to stuff it up his ass

I'd imagine he did. Morosi said he was rebuffed.

KMcMahon817
12-13-2010, 11:54 PM
It's not MB, but Cashman inquired about Danks at the winter meetings and:



I can't imagine a deal in which moving Danks would help the team win now. I am glad KW kindly rejected.

soltrain21
12-13-2010, 11:56 PM
I can't imagine a deal in which moving Danks would help the team win now. I am glad KW kindly rejected.

I try to figure out if Danks is willing to resign, and if he isn't then I would at least listen and give it some thought.

KMcMahon817
12-14-2010, 12:03 AM
I try to figure out if Danks is willing to resign, and if he isn't then I would at least listen and give it some thought.

I agree. But with the current situation the SOX are in with their staff, they can hardly trade away Danks. I agree an extension would be great, but if the SOX are going to move a starter it has to be Mark. If they need the extra money to effectively fill out the bullpen, fine. Otherwise keep the rotation together and spend the money anyway.