PDA

View Full Version : Bullpen Poll


russ99
12-09-2010, 01:17 PM
Peavy's article got me to thinking, maybe it's not such a bad idea to give Sale the closer job...

What are your thoughts?

This poll assumes Peavy can go in mid to late April when the schedule requires 5 starters, or the Sox bring back Freddy as a stopgap.

kittle42
12-09-2010, 01:20 PM
Too early to discuss until relievers start getting signed. I mean, hardly any of them on the market have gone yet.

sox1970
12-09-2010, 01:23 PM
Too early, but when the dust settles, I don't want Thornton closing. I know that already.

MarkZ35
12-09-2010, 01:49 PM
Thorntons too valuable against tough lefties in the 7th, 8th and closing certain situations to be the everyday closer. I wouldnt be mind resigning Bobby to a small contract if he can't get a deal that he likes anywhere else.

Boondock Saint
12-09-2010, 01:51 PM
Too early to discuss until relievers start getting signed. I mean, hardly any of them on the market have gone yet.

Exactly. But it's never too early to discuss churros. Mmm...churros.

slavko
12-09-2010, 02:58 PM
Fried dough, in any form, wins hands down. Now, let me refresh your memory. Most of us would agree that the 2006 club was improved on paper from 2005. Where did it fall apart? Because they went from never blowing a lead in 2005 to always blowing a lead in 2006.

If the 'pen doesn't get rebuilt we're going to be as angry and frustrated in 2011 as we were in 2006. And that will require luck as much as money. No joke, friends.

PaleHoser
12-09-2010, 03:03 PM
Where's the option to use Peavy?

Just a thought. No one really knows what it's going to take for him to come back from his injury and working an inning at a time a few times a week may be easier on him that 100+ pitches every five days. Seemed to work well for John Smoltz when he came back from Tommy John surgery.

Corlose 15
12-09-2010, 03:04 PM
Fried dough, in any form, wins hands down. Now, let me refresh your memory. Most of us would agree that the 2006 club was improved on paper from 2005. Where did it fall apart? Because they went from never blowing a lead in 2005 to always blowing a lead in 2006.

If the 'pen doesn't get rebuilt we're going to be as angry and frustrated in 2011 as we were in 2006. And that will require luck as much as money. No joke, friends.

Well, that and the fact that Buehrle and Contreras both took serious dives in the 2nd half of the season.

I think that the core components the Sox have so far coming back in 2011 (Thornton, Sale, Santos, Pena) are probably more of a sure thing that what we expected out of Hermanson, Cotts, and Politte.

Corlose 15
12-09-2010, 03:06 PM
Where's the option to use Peavy?

Just a thought. No one really knows what it's going to take for him to come back from his injury and working an inning at a time a few times a week may be easier on him that 100+ pitches every five days. Seemed to work well for John Smoltz when he came back from Tommy John surgery.

The difference is at this point it's not a stability issue for Peavy, like Tommy John but a strength and power issue. His lat is reattached and healing but has undergone atrophy from disuse for the past 5 months or so. I don't think bullpen work is gonna buildup the strength that starting will.

Gavin
12-09-2010, 03:06 PM
I'd worry about a Santos meltdown in April, whereas he loses all confidence and Thornton would have to close anyway. Also in that scenario, Santos becomes effectively destroyed for most of the season due to the lack of confidence.

TDog
12-09-2010, 03:29 PM
Thornton becomes less effective when he pitches without days off. I don't see him becoming the regular closer.

I'm guessing the White Sox sign a free agent to close. If they can't go that, they will probably start the season with Sale closing most of the games.

BadBobbyJenks
12-09-2010, 03:40 PM
If Sale is in the pen that allows Thornton to close.

I can deal with:

Closer: Thornton
Righty Su: Santos
Lefty Su: Sale
Middle/Long:Tony Pena

and figure it out after that.

I'd like to take a flier on Accardo.

Boondock Saint
12-09-2010, 03:53 PM
Where's the option to use Peavy?

Just a thought. No one really knows what it's going to take for him to come back from his injury and working an inning at a time a few times a week may be easier on him that 100+ pitches every five days. Seemed to work well for John Smoltz when he came back from Tommy John surgery.

Using Peavy out of the bullpen is not just a waste of $16m, it's a colossal waste of his talent. Peavy has a history of being able to go through a lineup 2-3 times a game. You don't waste that on a few innings of work a week.

SOXSINCE'70
12-09-2010, 04:05 PM
Too early, but when the dust settles, I don't want Thornton closing. I know that already.

Rafeal Soriano.:crossfingers::praying:

I know it's a longshot, but a Sox fan can hope.

voodoochile
12-09-2010, 04:32 PM
Closer by committee.

Sign Bobby for a setup man role with the promise he will close occasionally.

Bring up Harrel or Pena or someone to be the long reliever.

Leave Pena as middle relief and add one more.

Let Sale, Santos, Thornton and Bobby rotate around the last few innings for good matchups and to ride whoever is hot at a given moment.

If not Bobby try for Putz. Heck bring em both back and bring on ST...

BadBobbyJenks
12-09-2010, 04:36 PM
Putz signed with Arizona.

Noneck
12-09-2010, 06:40 PM
I would think that if the Sox were interested in Bobby, they would have offered him a contract, when they told him they were going to non tender him. It doesnt appear as though they did this. I dont think they have any interest in him, I wish they did though.

CWSpalehoseCWS
12-09-2010, 09:43 PM
I really am not comfortable with having Thornton close. He doesn't seem to do that well in that role. He's so dominant in the set-up role, I'd keep him there. Give Sale a shot. But I would really prefer the Sox to go out and sign another decent proven reliever.

DumpJerry
12-09-2010, 09:52 PM
Bullpens are overrated. The 1917 White Sox had only two guys in the bullpen (one of whom appeared in only five games) and they won 100 games on a 154 game schedule (along with the World Series).

Whitesox029
12-09-2010, 11:16 PM
I'm just glad there are this many options still available to us.

NLaloosh
12-10-2010, 12:26 AM
Peavy should not be counted on until the second half of the season. If the Sox don't want to waste the whole amount of his contract they will be very cautious and patient with him.

This is why the Sox should bring back Freddy. If and when Peavy comes back Freddy can be the long man/ spot starter in the pen.

Then, all they need to do is add a lefty like Mahay to Sale, Thornton, Santos, Infante, Pena and another righty.

If they add another lefty to the pen then they will have lots of flexibility with Sale (start or pen) and Thornton (setup or close). I also like the closer by committee idea.

I do think there is money to add Garcia and Mahay without making a trade.

Domeshot17
12-10-2010, 08:24 AM
Peavy should not be counted on until the second half of the season. If the Sox don't want to waste the whole amount of his contract they will be very cautious and patient with him.

This is why the Sox should bring back Freddy. If and when Peavy comes back Freddy can be the long man/ spot starter in the pen.

Then, all they need to do is add a lefty like Mahay to Sale, Thornton, Santos, Infante, Pena and another righty.

If they add another lefty to the pen then they will have lots of flexibility with Sale (start or pen) and Thornton (setup or close). I also like the closer by committee idea.

I do think there is money to add Garcia and Mahay without making a trade.

You really want 3 lefties in the pen?

I don't want Sale closing personally. I think he can do it, but this kid has front line starter potential, lets not kill that. Very rarely do young closers transition into a rotation after a couple years in the pen.

soxinem1
12-14-2010, 10:18 AM
Fried dough, in any form, wins hands down. Now, let me refresh your memory. Most of us would agree that the 2006 club was improved on paper from 2005. Where did it fall apart? Because they went from never blowing a lead in 2005 to always blowing a lead in 2006.

If the 'pen doesn't get rebuilt we're going to be as angry and frustrated in 2011 as we were in 2006. And that will require luck as much as money. No joke, friends.

It was also because the pitching was nowhere near as consistent as it was in 2005.

Buehrle and Contreras were practically useless in the second half.

Garcia and Garland were on vacation the first half.

Jenks was done for by September.

Three bullpen journeymen who combined for an ERA of around two in 2005 combined for an ERA around six in 2006, and were out of the organization before 2007.

If it wasn't for the slow-pitch softball offense from April to July, that team would have never won 90 games.

Relievers are a crap shoot, even the established ones.

SI1020
12-14-2010, 12:09 PM
Bullpens are overrated. The 1917 White Sox had only two guys in the bullpen (one of whom appeared in only five games) and they won 100 games on a 154 game schedule (along with the World Series). Their starters had 78 complete games, including Eddie Cicotte 29 out of 35 starts.

KMcMahon817
12-14-2010, 12:42 PM
I voted for signing Bobby at a lower rate mainly because I don't want Santos closing. Thornton needs to be the setup man most days and close when the closer can't go.

I wouldn't be against bringing Bobby back and around 4 million a year, but I also wouldn't be against bringing in another closer. If that involves dealing Gavin or Danks though, I don't really see the upside.

konerko 14
12-14-2010, 05:38 PM
It was also because the pitching was nowhere near as consistent as it was in 2005.

Buehrle and Contreras were practically useless in the second half.

Garcia and Garland were on vacation the first half.

Jenks was done for by September.

Three bullpen journeymen who combined for an ERA of around two in 2005 combined for an ERA around six in 2006, and were out of the organization before 2007.

If it wasn't for the slow-pitch softball offense from April to July, that team would have never won 90 games.

Relievers are a crap shoot, even the established ones.
Garland won 12 games and made the All Star game in the first half.

SouthSideLove
12-14-2010, 08:47 PM
If DH by committee didn't work, I doubt that closer by committee would as well. Bullpens thrive on set role players. If we are to be successful in 2011, we need to open the season with clearly defined roles across the board.

I like the idea of Thornton closing, but I'd rather keep him where he has had proven success (as a premier setup man). I'd give Sale a shot. He seems motivated to stay in the bullpen, seems to love the adrenaline, and has the "stuff" that can dominate in 9th inning situations.

Let's give the kid a shot!

SoxSpeed22
12-14-2010, 09:33 PM
Closer by committee always has been and always will be a bad idea. I think we need to make a trade for a reliever we think has the stuff and makeup to close. But if that doesn't work, Sale might be the best option. I still don't think Santos is there yet.

soxinem1
12-16-2010, 06:31 AM
Garland won 12 games and made the All Star game in the first half.

Jon Garland had an ERA of FIVE the 1st half of 2006 and did not make the All-Star team. He made it in 2005.

NLaloosh
12-16-2010, 06:51 AM
You really want 3 lefties in the pen?

I don't want Sale closing personally. I think he can do it, but this kid has front line starter potential, lets not kill that. Very rarely do young closers transition into a rotation after a couple years in the pen.

I didn't say that I wanted 3 lefties in the pen or that I wanted Sale in the pen. I said that if the Sox add another lefty to the pen then they will have the flexibilty to do many things if necessary.

Peavy might be effectively done, who knows. What if another starter is injured. There is no depth in the system at all. Sale may need to start.

Also, right now, the Sox have no one in the pen that has ever been a closer. Sale and Thornton have done it a few times and Santos may have potential but they have no one that has ever been a closer for a whole season. Isn't that kind of scary for a team that wants to go all the way?

If it turns out that Thornton is the guy that needs to be the closer (quite possible as of now) and Sale somehow even temporarily needs to be in the rotation the Sox will need another lefty in the pen.

hawkjt
12-16-2010, 08:36 AM
Re-sign Freddie. Put Sale in as closer. I agree with those that think that Sale is not built for 200 innings,but his stuff is closer good.
Have Freddie take Peavys spot til Jake is back. Freddie can spot start the rest of the year as needed. Great insurance.
Now that Crain is signed....we have Pena,Santos and Crain as power righties,and Thornton and Sale as power lefties...not bad.

soxinem1
12-16-2010, 08:45 AM
Re-sign Freddie. Put Sale in as closer. I agree with those that think that Sale is not built for 200 innings,but his stuff is closer good.
Have Freddie take Peavys spot til Jake is back. Freddie can spot start the rest of the year as needed. Great insurance.
Now that Crain is signed....we have Pena,Santos and Crain as power righties,and Thornton and Sale as power lefties...not bad.

Agreed. Freddie or someone like him is the best option.

I'm not sure using Sale as a starter until Peavy comes back, then putting him in the pen later is good for developing a young pitcher.

BadBobbyJenks
12-16-2010, 03:38 PM
Why is Sale not built for 200 innings other than he hasn't been stretched out to do it?

soltrain21
12-16-2010, 04:41 PM
Why is Sale not built for 200 innings other than he hasn't been stretched out to do it?

He weighs nine pounds.

Daver
12-16-2010, 04:53 PM
He weighs nine pounds.

Randy Johnson disagrees with you.

BadBobbyJenks
12-16-2010, 04:59 PM
He weighs nine pounds.

Oh.

PalehosePlanet
12-16-2010, 06:09 PM
He weighs nine pounds.

He's built exactly the same as Jack Mcdowell was, and Jack threw over 250 innings per for three straight years.

PalehosePlanet
12-16-2010, 07:01 PM
Agreed. Freddie or someone like him is the best option.

I'm not sure using Sale as a starter until Peavy comes back, then putting him in the pen later is good for developing a young pitcher.

Another similar, cheap option would be Justin Duchscherer. He's had success out of the pen and as a starter and could help us in either role. He was hurt 2 years ago, and last year battled depression, so I'm sure he'll get no more than a one year incentive laden deal.

DonnieDarko
12-16-2010, 09:02 PM
He's built exactly the same as Jack Mcdowell was, and Jack threw over 250 innings per for three straight years.

Did McDowell have as violent (or weird) a pitching motion as Sale has, though?

EDIT: Now that Wood has signed with the Cubs, who should the Sox go after next? I don't know who else is available, but...there's got to be someone out there of value, right?