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View Full Version : Alright - now what do the Sox do?


soltrain21
12-08-2010, 10:16 AM
Obviously the bullpen is going to be addressed - but do you think the Sox try to move Floyd or Quentin? I've always liked Josh Willingham and wouldn't mind him roaming our outfield. I know he is on the market for the Nats.

What would you like to see?

DirtySox
12-08-2010, 10:17 AM
I'm fairly confident Dayan will be shopped. And I would have no issue with it.

Rohan
12-08-2010, 10:19 AM
I'm fairly confident Dayan will be shopped. And I would have no issue with it.

Will Morel be shopped?

soltrain21
12-08-2010, 10:20 AM
Will Morel be shopped?

I hope not. I think he can be a pretty solid third baseman and I really like his glove. I wouldn't mind seeing Dayan shopped. I would prefer it, actually.

DirtySox
12-08-2010, 10:20 AM
Will Morel be shopped?

Doubt it. He's one of the few players with surplus value left on this team. His defense is a pretty sure thing as well.

I wouldn't trust Omar to replicate his previous season either.

asindc
12-08-2010, 10:22 AM
Will Morel be shopped?

I hope not. With the lineup we currently have, I wouldn't mind him batting 9th and starting at 3rd. Rather have the team focus on relief pitching from here on out. By the way, I do believe KW is farther ahead of other GMs in doing their XMAS shopping. I'm thinking only the Yanks are more complete at this stage among the contenders.

Madvora
12-08-2010, 10:23 AM
I'm not confident we will see the Carlos Quentin we once saw in 2008 again. I think we we should look for a replacement. I have no idea for other options though because I don't pay attention to teams that aren't the Sox.

Rockabilly
12-08-2010, 10:23 AM
There is a little talk in LA that the Dodgers would like Quentin. Maybe Quentin for Broxton.

khan
12-08-2010, 10:23 AM
I'm fairly confident Dayan will be shopped. And I would have no issue with it.

I think it would be selling low to trade Viciedo at this point. He's got to re-establish himself as a viable MLB hitter before KW shops him, IMO.

I'd think that sometime DURING the season might be a better time to shop Viciedo. You know, once he gets around to drawing his 2nd non-IBB of the 2011 season...

hi im skot
12-08-2010, 10:24 AM
There is a little talk in LA that the Dodgers would like Quentin. Maybe Quentin for Broxton.

And then we create another hole...

hawkjt
12-08-2010, 10:29 AM
Personally,I just want Kenny to pick up some decent relievers at a reasonable price,and not really move anyone.
Quentin is still a very productive slugger,and last year might be his low point. I do not give a single crap about these stories that Cowley spreads about Carlos being a loner or a wacko...just hit,Carlos.

As for Tank....what's the crying need to move him now. He is 21yrs old,and you can always use him as trade bait in July to pick up a key contributor if needed.

Just pick up some bullpen help,and call it a day,Kenny.

Domeshot17
12-08-2010, 10:31 AM
I actually would use Dayan in the backup 1b/dh/3b role spelling Dunn vs LHP. I would next talk to Bobby about a 2 year, 8 mil deal with an additional 2-3 mil per based on incentives for saves and staying healthy.

Hitmen77
12-08-2010, 10:32 AM
Whether it's a good move or not, I wouldn't be surprised at all to see Floyd or Quentin traded.

At any rate, the Sox need to take at least some steps to shore up the bullpen. I dont' buy this "it's always a crapshoot, so why bother getting relievers" idea. 3 holes in the pen are too many to trust to whoever we can scrape up from our farm system or off the reject pile.

aryzner
12-08-2010, 10:34 AM
And then we create another hole...
I know people hate the idea, myself included, but Mark Teahen has played RF in his career...

Not saying it's a good idea but like it or not, it IS an option.

sox1970
12-08-2010, 10:35 AM
I actually would use Dayan in the backup 1b/dh/3b role spelling Dunn vs LHP. I would next talk to Bobby about a 2 year, 8 mil deal with an additional 2-3 mil per based on incentives for saves and staying healthy.

Disagree with all of this.

Viciedo needs to play everyday. AAA or trade him and get something.

Spell Dunn? No. He's a horse (donkey) and has always played everyday. I want him in the lineup at least 156 games.

Jenks? Sometimes it's just time to part ways. This is one of those times.

Rockabilly
12-08-2010, 10:36 AM
We need to fill 3 bullpen spots and a 4th OF.

Any ideas who might fill the roles?

Noneck
12-08-2010, 10:37 AM
I think the Sox should shop Viciedo now. I dont see a spot on the club for him now and his worth may highest now, considering he will be in the minors making 1.25M, at the trade deadline. With Dunn and Paul locked up now, there is no place on the club for Viciedo for years to come.

Even dumping Viciedo should open up enough money for decent relief help.

WhiteSoxFTW
12-08-2010, 10:38 AM
From what I have heard on The Score, the Sox have been shopping both Floyd and Quentin this off-season. I fully expect at least one of those gone by ST.

Our bullpen and prospects are in shambles. If the Sox make a run and then need some sort of trade-deadline deal to get better for the playoffs...what prospects do we really have to trade? Teams seem to want pitching at the deadline, and that is all gone in the minors. Dayan seems the only viable trade option.

I think one of the above players is traded for pitching/pitching prospects this winter.

soltrain21
12-08-2010, 10:38 AM
We need to fill 3 bullpen spots and a 4th OF.

Any ideas who might fill the roles?

I could see De Aza as the fourth outfielder. And I'm sure the Sox will pick up 1-2 non tendered guys and then invite some people to spring training.

Or maybe the Sox trade Floyd and Dayan for a bullpen pitcher and a rightfielder. Then move TCQ for another arm?

Who knows. Lots of options, though.

Nellie_Fox
12-08-2010, 10:39 AM
I think it would be selling low to trade Viciedo at this point. He's got to re-establish himself as a viable MLB hitter before KW shops him, IMO.

I'd think that sometime DURING the season might be a better time to shop Viciedo. You know, once he gets around to drawing his 2nd non-IBB of the 2011 season...In order to re-establish something, it had to have been established at some time.

khan
12-08-2010, 10:40 AM
I think the Sox should shop Viciedo now. I dont see a spot on the club for him now and his worth may highest now, considering he will be in the minors making 1.25M, at the trade deadline. With Dunn and Paul locked up now, there is no place on the club for Viciedo for years to come.

Do you really believe this, after Viciedo showed a strong aversion to taking a walk and an allergy to leather this past season?

I happen to believe that Viciedo's value is lower than it has been for the majority of his time in the organization.

CPditka
12-08-2010, 10:41 AM
I think TCQ is on the block as well as Floyd. Id be in no rush to shop the Tank, theres nothing wrong with having a "good" young player on the bench or in the Minors.


If TCQ is moved Id assume that Tehan would play there. (not my favorite idea). Unless we sign someone cooler.

TCQ for Broxton makes sense.

The fantasy baseball enthusiast sends MB + TCQ to the Cards for Rasmus and Bullpen help. Doubt it happens.

I dont look for Kenny to spend a lot of new cash on the pen. He'll probably wait and sign some leftover players after the big fish have left the pond.


Either way, Id like to tell Kenny, Rick, and Jerry good job so far!

khan
12-08-2010, 10:41 AM
In order to re-establish something, it had to have been established at some time.

Well, I think that before the world discovered that Viciedo would swing at anything not thrown directly at his head, his value was higher than it is now. If anything, I'd think that he's worth less now in trade than he was worth in last offseason.

Rockabilly
12-08-2010, 10:42 AM
I could see De Aza as the fourth outfielder. And I'm sure the Sox will pick up 1-2 non tendered guys and then invite some people to spring training.

Or maybe the Sox trade Floyd and Dayan for a bullpen pitcher and a rightfielder. Then move TCQ for another arm?

Who knows. Lots of options, though.


I wonder if Jones will come back to the Sox for a very cheap contract.

Noneck
12-08-2010, 10:43 AM
Do you really believe this, after Viciedo showed a strong aversion to taking a walk and an allergy to leather this past season?

I happen to believe that Viciedo's value is lower than it has been for the majority of his time in the organization.

I think it will be even lower when he is relegated to the minors. I am not opposed to dumping him for a bag of balls also.

CPditka
12-08-2010, 10:47 AM
Im ok w/ De Aza as our 4th OF. Or Jones on the right contract. But De Aza provides good speed off the bench (needed w/ Dunn/PK/AJ). I could see him being a pinch runner often.

khan
12-08-2010, 10:47 AM
I think it will be even lower when he is relegated to the minors. I am not opposed to dumping him for a bag of balls also.
I think that it's possible that you're correct here, if he continues to swing away at crappy pitches and flail away at balls hit his direction.

On the other hand, if he can develop enough patience to draw a walk every once in awhile, and the coaches can find him a position to play, he might still be worth more than a bag of balls. After all, he IS stated to be only 21 years old...

MtGrnwdSoxFan
12-08-2010, 10:49 AM
Im ok w/ De Aza as our 4th OF. Or Jones on the right contract. But De Aza provides good speed off the bench (needed w/ Dunn/PK/AJ). I could see him being a pinch runner often.

Jones has a better glove, and while he's not a burner, he still has some good speed for a guy his size. I'm not sure how good a defender De Aza is, because I'd like to see a def. replacement in for Quentin, and I know Jones can foot that bill.

SephClone89
12-08-2010, 10:50 AM
http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/1130468780/9-15_20Lachat_20cowley_201_normal.jpg (http://twitter.com/cst_sox) cst_sox (http://twitter.com/cst_sox)
Expect Tony Pena to be moved from middle to backend work, according to KW. Sale is now looking like a reliever. 2 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/cst_sox/status/12548753219125248) via ÜberTwitter (http://www.ubertwitter.com/bb/download.php)

.

DirtySox
12-08-2010, 10:51 AM
http://a3.twimg.com/profile_images/1177914959/Twitter_pic_normal.jpg
jaysonst (http://twitter.com/#%21/jaysonst) Jayson Stark
Kenny Williams on payroll limitations beyond this: "We're at the point where we need to get creative because we're about tapped out."
15 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/#%21/jaysonst/status/12545926925131776)


http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/1130468780/9-15_20Lachat_20cowley_201_normal.jpg
cst_sox (http://twitter.com/#%21/cst_sox) cst_sox
Bullpen help will have to come through trade. Sox payroll is tapped out.
11 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/#%21/cst_sox/status/12546795951366144)

Noneck
12-08-2010, 10:52 AM
On the other hand, if he can develop enough patience to draw a walk every once in awhile, and the coaches can find him a position to play, he might still be worth more than a bag of balls. After all, he IS only 21 in Cuban/caribbean years.


It is possible but do you think the Sox should wait and see while he uses up reliever money? He will never get a chance to show it on Sox and his progress will be only at the minor league level. I dont think it is worth the gamble.

Rockabilly
12-08-2010, 10:53 AM
http://a3.twimg.com/profile_images/1177914959/Twitter_pic_normal.jpg
jaysonst (http://twitter.com/#%21/jaysonst) Jayson Stark
Kenny Williams on payroll limitations beyond this: "We're at the point where we need to get creative because we're about tapped out."
15 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/#%21/jaysonst/status/12545926925131776)

http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/1130468780/9-15_20Lachat_20cowley_201_normal.jpg
cst_sox (http://twitter.com/#%21/cst_sox) cst_sox
Bullpen help will have to come through trade. Sox payroll is tapped out.
11 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/#%21/cst_sox/status/12546795951366144)


I am predicting Quentin to LA for Broxton

sox1970
12-08-2010, 10:54 AM
I'd like to hear a Freddy Garcia signing for a couple mil.

It's clear Peavy can't be counted on until at least May (if that). You can move Freddy to the pen if/when Peavy comes back.

asindc
12-08-2010, 10:55 AM
I wonder if Jones will come back to the Sox for a very cheap contract.

Im ok w/ De Aza as our 4th OF. Or Jones on the right contract. But De Aza provides good speed off the bench (needed w/ Dunn/PK/AJ). I could see him being a pinch runner often.

Jones has a better glove, and while he's not a burner, he still has some good speed for a guy his size. I'm not sure how good a defender De Aza is, because I'd like to see a def. replacement in for Quentin, and I know Jones can foot that bill.

Count me among those who wouldn't mind having Jones back as a 4th OF, even though he frustrated me to no end last season with his all-or-nothing swing. I really like him as a defensive replacement OF and spot starter OF/DH. While I would be surprised if he plays for the league minimum again, maybe $1 million plus incentives could get it done.

nccwsfan
12-08-2010, 10:56 AM
From KW per Jayson Stark Twitter:

Asked if he's open to trading a stg p (I.e. Danks or Floyd) Williams said "I don't want to get into subtracting off major league club if I can help it. But if there's something out there that makes us better overall we will consider it." #Whitesox

I have zero problem with a Viciedo, Danks, etc being moved for bullpen help and would prefer they trade them over anyone currently on the ML roster. Keep Morel and his D at third and De Aza as the 4th OF.

DirtySox
12-08-2010, 10:57 AM
If payroll is tapped out, I don't expect any signings except cheap bullpen arms unless salary is shipped out via trade. Jones and Garcia seem a luxury at this point.

khan
12-08-2010, 11:02 AM
http://a3.twimg.com/profile_images/1177914959/Twitter_pic_normal.jpg
jaysonst (http://twitter.com/#%21/jaysonst) Jayson Stark
Kenny Williams on payroll limitations beyond this: "We're at the point where we need to get creative because we're about tapped out."
15 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/#%21/jaysonst/status/12545926925131776)

http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/1130468780/9-15_20Lachat_20cowley_201_normal.jpg
cst_sox (http://twitter.com/#%21/cst_sox) cst_sox
Bullpen help will have to come through trade. Sox payroll is tapped out.
11 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/#%21/cst_sox/status/12546795951366144)

I hate the way this is sounding. I'd really rather that they go "all in," rather than [perhaps] half-stepping their way to an expensive 1st round playoff exit. [Followed by a firesale next offseason.]

It is possible but do you think the Sox should wait and see while he uses up reliever money? He will never get a chance to show it on Sox and his progress will be only at the minor league level. I dont think it is worth the gamble.
Russ has the SOX currently at $117M, though I'd guess that $117M is a bit low. [Given the pending raises to Danks/Pena/Quentin.]

At THIS level, there is little point in going halfway, IMO. Trading away Viciedo for salary relief only yields $2.25M, which probably won't help much.

I'd prefer KW not give away any more value in the farm system, though he probably will.

Noneck
12-08-2010, 11:09 AM
At THIS level, there is little point in going halfway, IMO. Trading away Viciedo for salary relief only yields $2.25M, which probably won't help much.

I'd prefer KW not give away any more value in the farm system, though he probably will.

I would like the chairman to spend all his grand kids money also but Williams says they are tapped. So they will have to scrape around the barrel to get enough for relief help, this is one way to start doing it.

soxyess
12-08-2010, 11:14 AM
I think they just have to look at the non tendered relievers and role the dice on a couple of them. It seems that the WS have had better luck doing that than signing high priced free agents (Linebrink) or trading (Koch). Reliever is the most inconsistant position in baseball. With the exception of a few elite closers, most of them have a good year and then can go bad fast.

voodoochile
12-08-2010, 11:16 AM
I'm not confident we will see the Carlos Quentin we once saw in 2008 again. I think we we should look for a replacement. I have no idea for other options though because I don't pay attention to teams that aren't the Sox.

Quentin doesn't need to be the guy he was in 2008 to be effective. I'd like to see a better batting average, but he still drives the ball well. He's a fine #6 hitter. He had 25 HR and 26 2B in 131 games last year. I don't think he's a problem and for the price is just fine.

Also, if they trade Viciedo they need to get a big haul back. He's 21 and just posted a .840 OPS in his first stay in the majors. Maybe this is his ceiling, but it's a heck of a risk to take. Pierre is gone after this season. Can Viciedo play LF? I'd prefer to keep him and see how he develops.

I don't see them moving Danks or Floyd either unless they either resign Freddy (doubtful) or expect Peavy back to start the season. At this point in time I think Santos is the closer with Sale as the fall back if Santos struggles too much. Then all they need is some RH setup men and they are ready to go.

CPditka
12-08-2010, 11:23 AM
Ken_Rosenthal (http://twitter.com/#!/Ken_Rosenthal) Ken Rosenthal



Free-agent LHP Andrew Miller, non-tendered by #RedSox (http://twitter.com/#!/search?q=%23RedSox), met face-to-face w 4 clubs yest. Worthy project for good pitch coach. #WhiteSox (http://twitter.com/#!/search?q=%23WhiteSox)? #MLB (http://twitter.com/#!/search?q=%23MLB)

Over By There
12-08-2010, 11:29 AM
I agree with VC. I think everyone is overthinking this. In a perfect world it might be nice to upgrade TCQ's spot, but I'm more than happy to go to war with him next year. I think the best course of action is to sign Freddy and cobble together some high-upside relievers from the scrap heap (so to speak), rather than make some wild trades and open other holes. The sentiment is already starting to get worn out, but relievers in general are a crapshoot. We had great success with guys like Dustin Hermanson and Cliff Politte, who were basically 1- or 2-year wonders.

Carolina Kenny
12-08-2010, 11:37 AM
Quentin doesn't need to be the guy he was in 2008 to be effective. I'd like to see a better batting average, but he still drives the ball well. He's a fine #6 hitter. He had 25 HR and 26 2B in 131 games last year. I don't think he's a problem and for the price is just fine.

Also, if they trade Viciedo they need to get a big haul back. He's 21 and just posted a .840 OPS in his first stay in the majors. Maybe this is his ceiling, but it's a heck of a risk to take. Pierre is gone after this season. Can Viciedo play LF? I'd prefer to keep him and see how he develops.

I don't see them moving Danks or Floyd either unless they either resign Freddy (doubtful) or expect Peavy back to start the season. At this point in time I think Santos is the closer with Sale as the fall back if Santos struggles too much. Then all they need is some RH setup men and they are ready to go.

Keep still believe in TCQ

voodoochile
12-08-2010, 11:47 AM
Keep still believe in TCQ

Even if 2010 is his new ceiling, he's far from the biggest issue on this team.

Nellie_Fox
12-08-2010, 11:49 AM
Quentin doesn't need to be the guy he was in 2008 to be effective.I think that's the problem here. Quentin set such high expectations that many fans are disappointed with what would otherwise be a reasonably good season. Yeah, he's streaky, but had it not been for 08 I think fans would have been reasonably satisfied.

BringHomeDaBacon
12-08-2010, 11:49 AM
Quentin doesn't need to be the guy he was in 2008 to be effective. I'd like to see a better batting average, but he still drives the ball well. He's a fine #6 hitter. He had 25 HR and 26 2B in 131 games last year. I don't think he's a problem and for the price is just fine.

Also, if they trade Viciedo they need to get a big haul back. He's 21 and just posted a .840 OPS in his first stay in the majors. Maybe this is his ceiling, but it's a heck of a risk to take. Pierre is gone after this season. Can Viciedo play LF? I'd prefer to keep him and see how he develops.


I agree with you on both counts. While he may lack defensive skills and although his health is always a concern, Quentin is a very productive offensive player when he's in the lineup. His 73 runs scored, 26 HR and 87 RBIs in 131 games was excellent per game production. That's 90, 32, 107 projected out to 162 games. Furthermore, his .342 OBP was quite respectable. Quentin gets the shaft around here because everybody loves batting average and stolen bases (irrespective of success rate). Offensively, Quentin provides just about everything you want out of a corner outfielder. He ranked 17th among all MLB outfielders in OPS and 4th among AL RF behind only Bautista, Choo and Swisher. So while he's not as good as 2008, his 2010 was actually quite good. I suggest that anyone take a look around the league before hastily endorsing a trade of Carlos Quentin.

CPditka
12-08-2010, 11:51 AM
I agree...Id like to go to war w/ TCQ. Hopefully theres less pressure on him as well.


Just saying hes a possibility to be moved.


Id really like Andrew Miller. Kenny's present for Coop.

DirtySox
12-08-2010, 11:52 AM
Id really like Andrew Miller. Kenny's present for Coop.

Same. I've always been a fan.

russ99
12-08-2010, 11:53 AM
Do you really believe this, after Viciedo showed a strong aversion to taking a walk and an allergy to leather this past season?

I happen to believe that Viciedo's value is lower than it has been for the majority of his time in the organization.

The only strike against Viciedo is his salary, which is very high for a prospect.

For Dayan to put up the numbers he did against big league pitching, even with zero plate patience and no walks says a lot.

I'd really prefer the Sox hang on to him. Now that 1B/DH is blocked for a few years, maybe they can convert him to a left fielder in Charlotte this year, akin to Carlos Lee who also started out as a 3B. Then after Pierre's gone, they can put Viciedo in LF and lead off Mitchell in RF.

Rockabilly
12-08-2010, 11:53 AM
I hope we sign Scott Downs and make a trade for Broxton

doublem23
12-08-2010, 11:53 AM
Throw me in the camp that hopes we keep Viciedo.

21-year-old that has been in America for 2 years and he throws up a .840 OPS in his first taste of the Show? This kid's got superstar potential. Not everyday grinder potential like Morel. Superstar.

DirtySox
12-08-2010, 11:56 AM
Throw me in the camp that hopes we keep Viciedo.

21-year-old that has been in America for 2 years and he throws up a .840 OPS in his first taste of the Show? This kid's got superstar potential. Not everyday grinder potential like Morel. Superstar.

He succeeded in very limited PA in very selective situations. I can't fathom anything but a solid regular until he shows a big change in his approach. I hope he's traded unless the Sox think he's capable of playing a corner OF spot.

sullythered
12-08-2010, 11:57 AM
Throw me in the camp that hopes we keep Viciedo.

21-year-old that has been in America for 2 years and he throws up a .840 OPS in his first taste of the Show? This kid's got superstar potential. Not everyday grinder potential like Morel. Superstar.
I agree. I don't know why people seem to want to overlook that stat. .840 OPS at that age is impressive AS HELL.

Also, I don't see any reason to trade Carlos. He's one of the best offensive RF in baseball.

khan
12-08-2010, 12:02 PM
I agree. I don't know why people seem to want to overlook that stat. .840 OPS at that age is impressive AS HELL.

Also, I don't see any reason to trade Carlos. He's one of the best offensive RF in baseball.
Agreed about Viciedo, until he can draw a walk or two.

However, I disagree about Quentin. He's a decent enough offensive player, but he's not really an OF of any type. He simply can't move enough to be a longer-term [READ: beyond 2011 or 2012] solution in the OF.

In other words, his future lies in becoming a DH and/or a 1B.

IMO, to cite chapter and verse about Quentin's offensive stats while ignoring his immobility, his poor routes to balls in the OF, his inability to stay healthy, and his inability to adjust his approach at the plate is incomplete analysis. Were I the GM, I'd trade Quentin for the right package, but I'd also have to have a solution at RF.

DirtySox
12-08-2010, 12:06 PM
I agree. I don't know why people seem to want to overlook that stat. .840 OPS at that age is impressive AS HELL.

Noone mentions how drastic Dayan's splits are. He absolutely mashes LHP, but RHP is completely fugly:

Vs LHP: .356/.402/.756

Vs RHP: .245/.275/.399

If the Sox hold on to Dayan I really hope they stress the importance of walking. I also hope they don't rush him because they think he could fill an OF spot in 2012.

russ99
12-08-2010, 12:07 PM
I agree. I don't know why people seem to want to overlook that stat. .840 OPS at that age is impressive AS HELL.

Also, I don't see any reason to trade Carlos. He's one of the best offensive RF in baseball.

Correction: He's one of the best power hitting RFs in baseball. Areas of his offensive game flat out stink.

Again:

Quentin: .243/.342/.479
Jack Cust: .272/.395/.438

Too much about Quentin is wishful thinking, as in if he can have a healthy season, if he can get his head straight. All the while his payroll number goes higher and higher each year.

Not saying the Sox should deal him, but if he can't live up to the potential of his 2008 season, he won't be with the club much longer.

WhiteSox5187
12-08-2010, 12:14 PM
Obviously the bullpen is priority number one right now and I have no idea who is going to come in and fix that. If Andruw Jones is willing to come back I'd love to have him as a 4th outfielder, I would also be more than willing to trade Quentin.

Red Barchetta
12-08-2010, 12:15 PM
I like Quentin, however the more I watch him the more he becomes an "only if" player. "Only if he would stay healthy...", "Only if he would be more consistent...", etc.

In my perfect dream world, the SOX are indeed the dark horse for Cliff Lee and they land him. They then move Floyd/Quentin/Teahen in a deal to shore up the bullpen and perhaps obtain a young OF in the deal. If not, allow Jordan Danks a shot at winning the position.

Imagine this pitching staff...

Lee
Buehrle
Danks
Jackson
Garcia (Peavy)

Sale in the bullpen.

MtGrnwdSoxFan
12-08-2010, 12:28 PM
I like Quentin, however the more I watch him the more he becomes an "only if" player. "Only if he would stay healthy...", "Only if he would be more consistent...", etc.

In my perfect dream world, the SOX are indeed the dark horse for Cliff Lee and they land him. They then move Floyd/Quentin/Teahen in a deal to shore up the bullpen and perhaps obtain a young OF in the deal. If not, allow Jordan Danks a shot at winning the position.

Imagine this pitching staff...

Lee
Buehrle
Danks
Jackson
Garcia (Peavy)

Sale in the bullpen.

That rotation would be absolutely sick.

Lee
Danks
Peavy
Buehrle
Jackson

Wow. That would be almost criminally good.

WhiteSox5187
12-08-2010, 12:31 PM
I like Quentin, however the more I watch him the more he becomes an "only if" player. "Only if he would stay healthy...", "Only if he would be more consistent...", etc.

In my perfect dream world, the SOX are indeed the dark horse for Cliff Lee and they land him. They then move Floyd/Quentin/Teahen in a deal to shore up the bullpen and perhaps obtain a young OF in the deal. If not, allow Jordan Danks a shot at winning the position.

Imagine this pitching staff...

Lee
Buehrle
Danks
Jackson
Garcia (Peavy)

Sale in the bullpen.

That rotation would be absolutely sick.

Lee
Danks
Peavy
Buehrle
Jackson

Wow. That would be almost criminally good.

It's fun to think about, but, sadly it's not going to happen.

BringHomeDaBacon
12-08-2010, 12:40 PM
Correction: He's one of the best power hitting RFs in baseball. Areas of his offensive game flat out stink.

Again:

Quentin: .243/.342/.479
Jack Cust: .272/.395/.438

Too much about Quentin is wishful thinking, as in if he can have a healthy season, if he can get his head straight. All the while his payroll number goes higher and higher each year.

Not saying the Sox should deal him, but if he can't live up to the potential of his 2008 season, he won't be with the club much longer.

Cust would be a solid platoon player (with Andruw Jones?)

vs RHP .285/.410/.470

DirtySox
12-08-2010, 12:42 PM
Cust would be a solid platoon player (with Andruw Jones?)

vs RHP .285/.410/.470

Just signed with Seattle.

WizardsofOzzie
12-08-2010, 12:43 PM
I like Quentin, however the more I watch him the more he becomes an "only if" player. "Only if he would stay healthy...", "Only if he would be more consistent...", etc.

In my perfect dream world, the SOX are indeed the dark horse for Cliff Lee and they land him. They then move Floyd/Quentin/Teahen in a deal to shore up the bullpen and perhaps obtain a young OF in the deal. If not, allow Jordan Danks a shot at winning the position.

Imagine this pitching staff...

Lee
Buehrle
Danks
Jackson
Garcia (Peavy)

Sale in the bullpen.

It's being reported the Yankees offered Lee between 140 and 150 million over 6 years....No way the Sox can compete with that kind of offer

VMSNS
12-08-2010, 01:00 PM
If the Yankees sign Crawford, they will almost certainly be looking to move Gardner or Granderson.

...trade for Granderson, and slide Rios over to RF?

soxinem1
12-08-2010, 01:09 PM
Will Morel be shopped?

It would be nice to let at least ONE rookie develop at a position from within once in awhile.

I think he has a chance unless Ozzie pulls a BA with him, which is very likely.

BNLSox
12-08-2010, 01:10 PM
It's being reported the Yankees offered Lee between 140 and 150 million over 6 years....No way the Sox can compete with that kind of offer

Would we all agree that signing Lee would make us a lock to win the division for the next 2-3 years and a likely winner of a pennant or world series along the way as well?

If you're that close, wouldn't adding that piece warrant the investment?

TaylorStSox
12-08-2010, 01:10 PM
Dayan's problem is that he swings at everything because he can hit just about anything. Once he matures and calms down, he'll learn to lay off certain pitches. Vlad had the same problem and he turned out pretty ok. The LF idea is a good one.
My only problem with TCQ is his D. Last year may have been a low point offensively. If he and Beckham produce as they are capable, we'll have a heck of an offense.

SoxSpeed22
12-08-2010, 01:19 PM
I kind of like where we are with Viciedo. He can spend two more years in the minors and hopefully develop more patience and become one of our better hitters, as well as a good defender at 1st base.
Danks would fetch a much bigger return, but he's gotten better every year he's been here. I would rather see them deal Floyd for a few relief pitchers and maybe a starter. Quentin is still somewhat cheap, so I don't think we should deal him this year.
I am not liking the idea of Sale in the pen, but they need relief.

asindc
12-08-2010, 01:25 PM
Would we all agree that signing Lee would make us a lock to win the division for the next 2-3 years and a likely winner of a pennant or world series along the way as well?

If you're that close, wouldn't adding that piece warrant the investment?

The problem with that is that pitching is the biggest wild card in all of professional sports because of the injury factor. It is the reason why JR is very reluctant to go beyond 3-4 years for any pitcher. In fact, Buehrle getting 4 years from the Sox is a notable exception.

SoxFanEarl
12-08-2010, 01:32 PM
..... like KW said they are, then what about trading CQ for some prospects. They save a little money and rebuild for the future. They have Andruw Jones under contract thru 2011, so let him play right field. It no worse than CQ. And their offensive numbers were not a big difference last year anyway and Andruw played a lot less games than CQ.

doublem23
12-08-2010, 01:34 PM
Andruw played a lot less games than TCQ did last year because Andruw simply cannot grind through a full season as an everyday player any more. Look at how badly his stats last year fall about 1/3 of the way through the season.

Andruw's not the worst option as a 4th OF and he's got a little bit of power, but you cannot rely on him to be in the lineup 5-6 days a week and be productive.

BTW, Jones is not under contract for 2011. He is a free agent.

RockJock07
12-08-2010, 01:38 PM
I am predicting Quentin to LA for Broxton

Yeah, that seems like the best option. It's easier to find a corner OF then a decent Middle Reliever. Quentin has been shaky health wise and with some help from cooper Broxton should get back to his 2009 form when he was a monster.

Lillian
12-08-2010, 01:52 PM
If the Yankees sign Crawford, they will almost certainly be looking to move Gardner or Granderson.

...trade for Granderson, and slide Rios over to RF?

The Yankees would likely just want to get Granderson's contract off of their books. It probably wouldn't take much to get him, but could the Sox afford to take on another big contract?
He is owed 11:$8.25M, 12:$10M, 13:$13M club option ($2M buyout)

asindc
12-08-2010, 01:59 PM
The Yankees would likely just want to get Granderson's contract off of their books. It probably wouldn't take much to get him, but could the Sox afford to take on another big contract?
He is owed 11:$8.25M, 12:$10M, 13:$13M club option ($2M buyout)

As much as I have wanted Granderson to be the Sox CF (local guy, class individual, like his game), the NYY would have to pick up at least half that for me to consider it a good deal for the Sox. $13 million in 2013? ****ing Yanks.

SoxSpeed22
12-08-2010, 02:04 PM
The Yankees would likely just want to get Granderson's contract off of their books. It probably wouldn't take much to get him, but could the Sox afford to take on another big contract?
He is owed 11:$8.25M, 12:$10M, 13:$13M club option ($2M buyout)I don't see that happening. We already have a lot of big contracts.
Now Quentin and Floyd to LA for Andre Ethier and Jonathan Broxton...

Nellie_Fox
12-08-2010, 02:05 PM
Dayan's problem is that he swings at everything because he can hit just about anything. Once he matures and calms down, he'll learn to lay off certain pitches. Vlad had the same problem and he turned out pretty ok.Viciedo is nowhere near the bad-ball hitter that Vlad is/was. Viciedo has over double the strikeout rate that Vlad had at the same stage in his career. Striking out in 25% of your plate appearances is not "can hit just about anything."

palehozenychicty
12-08-2010, 02:09 PM
Yeah, that seems like the best option. It's easier to find a corner OF then a decent Middle Reliever. Quentin has been shaky health wise and with some help from cooper Broxton should get back to his 2009 form when he was a monster.

I would do that on Monday.

thomas35forever
12-08-2010, 02:16 PM
Viciedo is nowhere near the bad-ball hitter that Vlad is/was. Viciedo has over double the strikeout rate that Vlad had at the same stage in his career. Striking out in 25% of your plate appearances is not "can hit just about anything."
Viciedo's strikeout rate will (hopefully) drop over time. I was fortunate enough to be at the game where he hit his first homer this past year and I knew it was gone as soon as he hit it. He's definitely got some power and once he develops his other skills, I'm confident he'll be a big bat for us in more ways than one.

As for what the Sox need to do, the bullpen needs to be addressed obviously and I kind of agree that having Rios-Dunn-Konerko makes Quentin expendable to some degree. We could probably trade him for a reliever or two if anyone's willing to take him.

Lillian
12-08-2010, 02:35 PM
Viciedo's strikeout rate will (hopefully) drop over time. I was fortunate enough to be at the game where he hit his first homer this past year and I knew it was gone as soon as he hit it. He's definitely got some power and once he develops his other skills, I'm confident he'll be a big bat for us in more ways than one.

As for what the Sox need to do, the bullpen needs to be addressed obviously and I kind of agree that having Rios-Dunn-Konerko makes Quentin expendable to some degree. We could probably trade him for a reliever or two if anyone's willing to take him.

I think that you're undervaluing Carlos. I'm sure that he would bring a lot more than a "reliever or two". He's much more valuable to the Sox as the other right handed power hitter to sandwich Dunn in the middle.

Rios does not have the kind of power potential that Quentin has shown.

BringHomeDaBacon
12-08-2010, 02:51 PM
Viciedo's strikeout rate will (hopefully) drop over time. I was fortunate enough to be at the game where he hit his first homer this past year and I knew it was gone as soon as he hit it. He's definitely got some power and once he develops his other skills, I'm confident he'll be a big bat for us in more ways than one.

As for what the Sox need to do, the bullpen needs to be addressed obviously and I kind of agree that having Rios-Dunn-Konerko makes Quentin expendable to some degree. We could probably trade him for a reliever or two if anyone's willing to take him.

Rios is not as great offensively as you (or Ozzie apparently) think he is! He's not really a 3-4-5 in the lineup type of hitter. He had a great first half but his numbers overall the last three years have been on par with those of Alexei Ramirez. Nice players no doubt but not middle of the order material.

asindc
12-08-2010, 02:55 PM
Rios is not as great offensively as you (or Ozzie apparently) think he is! He's not really a 3-4-5 in the lineup type of hitter. He had a great first half but his numbers overall the last three years have been on par with those of Alexei Ramirez. Nice players no doubt but not middle of the order material.

Not intending to start a new debate here on the topic, but who would you bat 3rd?

BringHomeDaBacon
12-08-2010, 03:02 PM
Not intending to start a new debate here on the topic, but who would you bat 3rd?

I would go Pierre/Rios/Konerko/Dunn/Quentin/Alexei/Beckham/AJ/3b

Lillian
12-08-2010, 03:11 PM
Let's be clear about Quentin's production.
Even with his injuries, in his young Major League career he has averaged the following numbers, per 580 at bats:

33 doubles, 34 homers, 105 RBI's, with 104 strike outs.

I would think that last year just might be the least production that we see out of him in any year that he remains healthy, until he reaches the age when players are normally in decline.
At 28 years of age, I suspect that won't be until several years from now.

Would any of you be at all surprised if he hit 35 to 40 homers this season, and drove in over 100 runs?

I agree that he should bat 5th, right behind Dunn.

Domeshot17
12-08-2010, 03:17 PM
We have Quentin right were we want him, hitting 6th. We don't rely on him to carry the load, take the pressure off him to be the guy since he is a bit of a head case, and let him fall into his comfort zone. I want to keep Quentin more now that we resigned PK then I did yesterday without him.

kobo
12-08-2010, 03:19 PM
Let's be clear about Quentin's production.
Even with his injuries, in his young Major League career he has averaged the following numbers, per 580 at bats:

33 doubles, 34 homers, 105 RBI's, with 104 strike outs.

I would think that last year just might be the least production that we see out of him in any year that he remains healthy, until he reaches the age when players are normally in decline.
At 28 years of age, I suspect that won't be until several years from now.

Would any of you be at all surprised if he hit 35 to 40 homers this season, and drove in over 100 runs?

I agree that he should bat 5th, right behind Dunn.
I would, because I don't think he can stay healthy enough to do that.

asindc
12-08-2010, 03:22 PM
We have Quentin right were we want him, hitting 6th. We don't rely on him to carry the load, take the pressure off him to be the guy since he is a bit of a head case, and let him fall into his comfort zone. I want to keep Quentin more now that we resigned PK then I did yesterday without him.

That's what I think about it as well. If our top 6 collectively give us career norms then run production should be no problem at all. I agree with those who say trading TCQ now would be selling too low considering what he can provide. Defense is a problem with him, which is why I advocate re-signing Jones as the 4th OF/spot starter at both OF and DH. Jones would also be decent insurance if TCQ takes his annual lengthy stint on the DL.

gr8mexico
12-08-2010, 03:25 PM
We have Quentin right were we want him, hitting 6th. We don't rely on him to carry the load, take the pressure off him to be the guy since he is a bit of a head case, and let him fall into his comfort zone. I want to keep Quentin more now that we resigned PK then I did yesterday without him.
I agree, I dont think the Sox are going to count on him to hit 40HR's but a line of .270BA and 27HR and 90+RBI's would be really nice from the #6 hitter

russ99
12-08-2010, 03:35 PM
It would be nice to let at least ONE rookie develop at a position from within once in awhile.

I think he has a chance unless Ozzie pulls a BA with him, which is very likely.

What makes you think that? Did Ozzie "pull a BA" with Beckham or with Ramirez?

BA didn't have anything "pulled" on him, he did that to himself.

Nellie_Fox
12-08-2010, 03:37 PM
What makes you think that? Did Ozzie "pull a BA" with Beckham or with Ramirez?

BA didn't have anything "pulled" on him, he did that to himself.Don't forget, Ozzie screwed him in Boston and Kansas City too!

asindc
12-08-2010, 03:45 PM
What makes you think that? Did Ozzie "pull a BA" with Beckham or with Ramirez?

BA didn't have anything "pulled" on him, he did that to himself.

Oh yeah, well he pulled a BA on Danks, um... on Floyd, uh... on Jenks... oh wait... what exactly is "pulling a BA" anyway?

Domeshot17
12-08-2010, 03:55 PM
Ozzie and the Sox don't really have a great track record with Rookies. Gordon is still a BIG question mark, Anderson busted, there was the Sean Tracey experience were Ozzie probably ruined that kids life. It isn't just Ozzie though, the entire originzation is clueless on how to develop and bring up talent.

DumpJerry
12-08-2010, 03:57 PM
People have forgotten that when he was in Cuba, Viciedo came out of the bullpen as well as being a position player.

SoxSpeed22
12-08-2010, 03:59 PM
Ozzie and the Sox don't really have a great track record with Rookies. Gordon is still a BIG question mark, Anderson busted, there was the Sean Tracey experience were Ozzie probably ruined that kids life. It isn't just Ozzie though, the entire originzation is clueless on how to develop and bring up talent.A lot of people say that the Mariotti thing screwed up Ozzie as a manager, but I think the whole Sean Tracey thing was a lot worse. That would explain the whole less hitting batters thing from last year (especially against a certain team of ****ers).

SI1020
12-08-2010, 04:09 PM
A lot of people say that the Mariotti thing screwed up Ozzie as a manager, but I think the whole Sean Tracey thing was a lot worse. That would explain the whole less hitting batters thing from last year (especially against a certain team of ****ers). I think both incidents had quite the negative effect on Ozzie.

TDog
12-08-2010, 04:15 PM
That's what I think about it as well. If our top 6 collectively give us career norms then run production should be no problem at all. I agree with those who say trading TCQ now would be selling too low considering what he can provide. Defense is a problem with him, which is why I advocate re-signing Jones as the 4th OF/spot starter at both OF and DH. Jones would also be decent insurance if TCQ takes his annual lengthy stint on the DL.

I agree. I think it is more likely Quentin would be more valuable to the White Sox in right field next year than anything he would bring back in trade. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Quentin has a monster year. I don't expect him to lead the Sox in home runs, and it would surprise me if he did. But it wouldn't shock me. If Quentin has a strong year, Dunn will walk less and get more to hit.

The player I would like to see the Sox trade is Teahen. He may turn out to be a very good utility man, but he isn't superior defensively anywhere, although he has a little pop in his bat. I don't expect him to end up the starting third baseman, and in light of recent developments, I would be shocked if he gets any starts at first in 2011.

Daver
12-08-2010, 04:26 PM
Alright - now what do the Sox do?

Play baseball.

MarySwiss
12-08-2010, 04:35 PM
I agree. I think it is more likely Quentin would be more valuable to the White Sox in right field next year than anything he would bring back in trade. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Quentin has a monster year. I don't expect him to lead the Sox in home runs, and it would surprise me if he did. But it wouldn't shock me. If Quentin has a strong year, Dunn will walk less and get more to hit.

The player I would like to see the Sox trade is Teahen. He may turn out to be a very good utility man, but he isn't superior defensively anywhere, although he has a little pop in his bat. I don't expect him to end up the starting third baseman, and in light of recent developments, I would be shocked if he gets any starts at first in 2011.
TDog, I think a lot of us would like to see Teahen gone, but who would take him?

Hitmen77
12-08-2010, 04:55 PM
TDog, I think a lot of us would like to see Teahen gone, but who would take him?

The Sox could perhaps make another Linebrink-type deal where they eat part of his salary.

voodoochile
12-08-2010, 04:58 PM
The Sox could perhaps make another Linebrink-type deal where they eat part of his salary.

Or a Swisher type deal where they trade him for nothing.

Lillian
12-08-2010, 05:21 PM
Or a Swisher type deal where they trade him for nothing.

Unless you get the salary relief, or someone useful in return, Teahen is better held onto, as a replacement player in case of an injury.

TheVulture
12-08-2010, 05:22 PM
I have zero problem with a Viciedo, Danks, etc being moved for bullpen help and would prefer they trade them over anyone currently on the ML roster. Keep Morel and his D at third and De Aza as the 4th OF.


Trading Danks for bullpen help?


http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r115/subgenius88/walter-sobchak.jpg

Has the whole world gone CRAZY?!?

voodoochile
12-08-2010, 05:26 PM
Trading Danks for bullpen help?


http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r115/subgenius88/walter-sobchak.jpg

Has the whole world gone CRAZY?!?

:reinsy
"No, the kid is just looking out for my wallet, That's my type of fan..."

soltrain21
12-08-2010, 05:29 PM
Trading Danks for bullpen help?


http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r115/subgenius88/walter-sobchak.jpg

Has the whole world gone CRAZY?!?

I think he is talking about Jordan.

voodoochile
12-08-2010, 05:31 PM
I think he is talking about Jordan.

Looking back at the post I agree...

delben91
12-08-2010, 05:32 PM
Or a Swisher type deal where they trade him for nothing.

How quickly we forget the greatness that is Wilson Betemit.

doublem23
12-08-2010, 05:49 PM
Unless you get the salary relief, or someone useful in return, Teahen is better held onto, as a replacement player in case of an injury.

I don't know, the risk there is then you might have to play him.

DSpivack
12-08-2010, 05:50 PM
Unless you get the salary relief, or someone useful in return, Teahen is better held onto, as a replacement player in case of an injury.

Disagree. If we can somehow get a team to take his deal on, that's $5.5 million to spend on needed relief pitching. Utility men shouldn't be hard to find.

Lillian
12-08-2010, 06:02 PM
Disagree. If we can somehow get a team to take his deal on, that's $5.5 million to spend on needed relief pitching. Utility men shouldn't be hard to find.

I agree. That is what I said. Salary relief would be a worthwhile objective. What I wouldn't consider useful is a trade, where in the Sox had to pay part of his salary.

DSpivack
12-08-2010, 06:08 PM
I agree. That is what I said. Salary relief would be a worthwhile objective. What I wouldn't consider useful is a trade, where in the Sox had to pay part of his salary.

Sorry for misunderstanding you, then.

Even if we do have to pay a bit of his salary, if it allows us even one arm in the pen, it's still worth it to me.

TheVulture
12-08-2010, 06:44 PM
I think he is talking about Jordan.

Yeah I guess you're right. Don't know what kind of bullpen help he would bring, though.

KMcMahon817
12-08-2010, 06:58 PM
I don't know, the risk there is then you might have to play him.

I don't like Teahen either, but man you really hate him. He's not a good fielder at all, but he is a decent bat off the bench...at least give him that. He's had a decent career prior to last season.

HomeFish
12-08-2010, 07:25 PM
Am I the only one optimistic about Viciedo? At every level of American baseball, he has mashed the ball at first, then struggled, then come back and hit very well.

I'm not ready to give up on Dayan for at least a few more months.

Domeshot17
12-08-2010, 07:37 PM
I know Dayan didn't show much patience, but how can you possibly be down on a guy who hit .308 with a 500 plus slugging percentage and an .840 OPS in his first 100 ABs. I mean good lord, when guys like Beckham or Crede struggle early, WSI preaches patience. When a guy tears the ****ing cover off the ball in his first stay up, WSI thinks his value has fallen.

IF you project out a full 500 ab season, Dayan would have been looking roughly at 25 homers and 35 doubles.

This is such a flawed, messed up line of thinking that I am actually the optimist here?

cws05champ
12-08-2010, 07:56 PM
I know Dayan didn't show much patience, but how can you possibly be down on a guy who hit .308 with a 500 plus slugging percentage and an .840 OPS in his first 100 ABs. I mean good lord, when guys like Beckham or Crede struggle early, WSI preaches patience. When a guy tears the ****ing cover off the ball in his first stay up, WSI thinks his value has fallen.

IF you project out a full 500 ab season, Dayan would have been looking roughly at 25 homers and 35 doubles.

This is such a flawed, messed up line of thinking that I am actually the optimist here?

+1, I can't believe I actually saw someone say that they would trade him for a bag of balls. I know it's an expression, but c'mon...this guy could be a monster hitter and is a legit prospect. I know he really has no position to play on this team now for the next 3 years, but you should be able to get other prospects or something of value for the team next year.

asindc
12-08-2010, 08:01 PM
+1, I can't believe I actually saw someone say that they would trade him for a bag of balls. I know it's an expression, but c'mon...this guy could be a monster hitter and is a legit prospect. I know he really has no position to play on this team now for the next 3 years, but you should be able to get other prospects or something of value for the team next year.

I agree, and I like the suggestion made earlier to possibly groom Viciedo to play LF when Pierre's contract runs out. When he hits the ball, he punishes it. He will get better at pitch selection and drawing walks (hell, how could he possibly get worse?) and can be the prototypical #5 hitter. Let's not sell low on this 21-year-old. Let's keep him and have him contribute from 2012 on.

Noneck
12-08-2010, 08:46 PM
Let's keep him and have him contribute from 2012 on.

Is it worth keeping him under wraps, with the hope that nurturing him will turn him into a major league ball player by 2012 for 2.5M?

Red Barchetta
12-08-2010, 09:30 PM
Ozzie and the Sox don't really have a great track record with Rookies. Gordon is still a BIG question mark, Anderson busted, there was the Sean Tracey experience were Ozzie probably ruined that kids life. It isn't just Ozzie though, the entire originzation is clueless on how to develop and bring up talent.

That is certainly true under the Ozzie regime. Funny because prior to that, I think the SOX did a good job in promoting and developing their players; i.e. Thomas, Ventura, McDowell, Ordonez, to name a few.

Nelson Foxtrot
12-08-2010, 10:56 PM
That is certainly true under the Ozzie regime. Funny because prior to that, I think the SOX did a good job in promoting and developing their players; i.e. Thomas, Ventura, McDowell, Ordonez, to name a few.

I think that's partially due to the team competing year after year. Not only does KW have to trade away youngsters for established veterans, but the Sox don't get great position in the draft either.

I don't know how well regarded Ordonez was prior to being signed, but the other names were high draft picks. The Sox had top 10 picks four straight years, and took McDowell (#5-'87), Ventura (#10-'88), Thomas (#7-'89), and Fernandez (#4-'90). Their only pick in the top ten since was #8 in 2008, which produced Beckham.

TDog
12-09-2010, 01:16 AM
Or a Swisher type deal where they trade him for nothing.

Teahen actually is to the White Sox what Swisher was to the A's on the eve of his trade to the White Sox. He has a contract committing salary the team could use elsewhere as it is looking to move into a different direction. The White Sox traded Swisher for nothing after they learned more about him and decided to cut their losses. Teahen's contract really isn't that bad.

Sending Teahen to another team while paying more than half his salary (something I don't believe helped the team much in the Linebrink deal) wouldn't make any sense. He can fill a role on the team, but he is being paid as a starter. If the Sox were paying most of his salary after trading him away, they would be paying him as a starter while he played for another team.

voodoochile
12-09-2010, 01:19 AM
Teahen actually is to the White Sox what Swisher was to the A's on the eve of his trade to the White Sox. He has a contract committing salary the team could use elsewhere as it is looking to move into a different direction. The White Sox traded Swisher for nothing after they learned more about him and decided to cut their losses. Teahen's contract really isn't that bad.

Sending Teahen to another team while paying more than half his salary (something I don't believe helped the team much in the Linebrink deal) wouldn't make any sense. He can fill a role on the team, but he is being paid as a starter. If the Sox were paying most of his salary after trading him away, they would be paying him as a starter while he played for another team.

I thought the Sox only sent 1.5M of the 5.5M Linebrink is owed.

MtGrnwdSoxFan
12-09-2010, 01:21 AM
I thought the Sox only sent 1.5M of the 5.5M Linebrink is owed.

I think a report said the actual amount sent to the Braves was closer to 3.5 mil.

DirtySox
12-09-2010, 01:27 AM
I think a report said the actual amount sent to the Braves was closer to 3.5 mil.

Correct, it was 3.5 million. The initial report was wrong.

MrX
12-09-2010, 01:31 AM
With the Crawford news tonight, it'd be worth a call to the Angels to see if you can fleece them for Quentin.

Noneck
12-09-2010, 07:30 AM
Correct, it was 3.5 million. The initial report was wrong.

It was indeed 3.5m.

http://atlanta.sbnation.com/atlanta-braves/2010/12/3/1853216/atlanta-braves-acquire-scott-linebrink-for-minor-leaguer

voodoochile
12-09-2010, 10:55 AM
I think a report said the actual amount sent to the Braves was closer to 3.5 mil.

I sit corrected. Thanks for the clarification.

Cap
12-09-2010, 11:02 AM
As much as I still like Quentin, I wouldn't mind seeing him traded for a bullpen arm or someone cheaper and better defensively. Peavy is too much of a question mark for me to feel confident losing one of starters like Floyd. I want to see Sale in the bullpen, maybe even a closer if the Sox don't acquire/trade for one.

Either way I feel like this team is much better than last year. Though that's with me expecting Beckham, AJ, Pierre, and the pitching staff getting off to a good start.

aryzner
12-09-2010, 11:11 AM
Either way I feel like this team is much better than last year.
On paper it sure as hell looks like they are better. So far the Sox have essentially replaced the Jones/Kotsay DH tandem with Adam Dunn. That alone is a night and day difference to me.

Bullpen's the big thing to put together now.

asindc
12-09-2010, 11:18 AM
On paper it sure as hell looks like they are better. So far the Sox have essentially replaced the Jones/Kotsay DH tandem with Adam Dunn. That alone is a night and day difference to me.

Bullpen's the big thing to put together now.

Also Teahen's defense at 3B with Morel's.

Ranger
12-10-2010, 04:37 AM
I think it would be selling low to trade Viciedo at this point. He's got to re-establish himself as a viable MLB hitter before KW shops him, IMO.

I'd think that sometime DURING the season might be a better time to shop Viciedo. You know, once he gets around to drawing his 2nd non-IBB of the 2011 season...

Do you really believe this, after Viciedo showed a strong aversion to taking a walk and an allergy to leather this past season?

I happen to believe that Viciedo's value is lower than it has been for the majority of his time in the organization.

This is a baseball myth. Teams aren't warded off/more intrigued by the performance of a player in their late teens/early 20s based on sporadic playing time over the course of one season. Nor are they more (or less) interested in a player like Beckham based on his limited MLB experience either. Both players are still highly attractive to teams, though one is more attractive than the other (Beckham being the bigger prize).

Fans tend to think that if a player gets called up and has rough time in a handful of plate appearances, his trade value has decreased. That just isn't true. Teams are smart enough to know that a small sample size means very little. So, to say that Viciedo's value is at its lowest point since he's been in the organization is so completely wrong, it's an idea not even worth entertaining. Not even sure how you'd arrive at that conclusion. My apologies, but you're just kind of throwing that out of nowhere.

Whatever his trade value was a year ago, it's virtually the same now. That's not speculation.


Personally,I just want Kenny to pick up some decent relievers at a reasonable price,and not really move anyone.
Quentin is still a very productive slugger,and last year might be his low point. I do not give a single crap about these stories that Cowley spreads about Carlos being a loner or a wacko...just hit,Carlos.

As for Tank....what's the crying need to move him now. He is 21yrs old,and you can always use him as trade bait in July to pick up a key contributor if needed.

Just pick up some bullpen help,and call it a day,Kenny.

It isn't Cowley just spreading stories. Whatever you hear about CQ being a little "off" is not just coming from Cowley. Quentin is out there. Trust me. We're all aware of it.

He's not a loner. That isn't the problem, and nobody has ever called him one, as far as I am aware. But he is definitely more intense and stranger than almost anyone that's been on the club in a few years. However, he could be a tremendous hitter if he can just get out of his own way.

cards press box
12-10-2010, 05:03 AM
But he is definitely more intense and stranger than almost anyone that's been on the club in a few years. However, he could be a tremendous hitter if he can just get out of his own way.

Doesn't the addition of Adam Dunn to the middle of the Sox lineup take some pressure off of Quentin? I hope so. Who knows, maybe this is just what he needs to relax and have a fine season.

cws05champ
12-10-2010, 06:49 AM
Doesn't the addition of Adam Dunn to the middle of the Sox lineup take some pressure off of Quentin? I hope so. Who knows, maybe this is just what he needs to relax and have a fine season.

That's what I'm hoping for, and a break out by Gordon Beckham. The offense would be top 3 in the AL if not all of baseball if both TCQ and Beckham turn it on.

Red Barchetta
12-10-2010, 07:41 AM
Doesn't the addition of Adam Dunn to the middle of the Sox lineup take some pressure off of Quentin? I hope so. Who knows, maybe this is just what he needs to relax and have a fine season.

I agree. Hitting is contagious and Quentin was hot during the SOX mid-season run last season. I personally think Q put too much pressure on himself the last two seasons based on his performance in 2007.

If I were Ozzie, I would move him down to 6th/7th and tell him to relax. He doesn't have to do it all.

hawkjt
12-10-2010, 08:01 AM
This is a baseball myth. Teams aren't warded off/more intrigued by the performance of a player in their late teens/early 20s based on sporadic playing time over the course of one season. Nor are they more (or less) interested in a player like Beckham based on his limited MLB experience either. Both players are still highly attractive to teams, though one is more attractive than the other (Beckham being the bigger prize).

Fans tend to think that if a player gets called up and has rough time in a handful of plate appearances, his trade value has decreased. That just isn't true. Teams are smart enough to know that a small sample size means very little. So, to say that Viciedo's value is at its lowest point since he's been in the organization is so completely wrong, it's an idea not even worth entertaining. Not even sure how you'd arrive at that conclusion. My apologies, but you're just kind of throwing that out of nowhere.

Whatever his trade value was a year ago, it's virtually the same now. That's not speculation.




It isn't Cowley just spreading stories. Whatever you hear about CQ being a little "off" is not just coming from Cowley. Quentin is out there. Trust me. We're all aware of it.

He's not a loner. That isn't the problem, and nobody has ever called him one, as far as I am aware. But he is definitely more intense and stranger than almost anyone that's been on the club in a few years. However, he could be a tremendous hitter if he can just get out of his own way.

But Cowley is the one saying that Carlos is so weird he needs to be moved....which I simply do not buy. Unless he is a bad guy,ie. a cancer in the clubhouse due to selfishness or backstabbing, just leave him alone.
When I read that conspiracy crap spewed by Luke Scott of the O's, it is clear that there might be a whole lot of guys way more wacked out than Carlos in MLB clubhouses. Personally, I think Carlos,as a Stanford guy, might be too educated/intelligent for some clubhouses ie..BlackJack McDowell.
Carlos will have a big year if the press will leave him alone.

voodoochile
12-10-2010, 10:35 AM
Doesn't the addition of Adam Dunn to the middle of the Sox lineup take some pressure off of Quentin? I hope so. Who knows, maybe this is just what he needs to relax and have a fine season.

If TCQ is a type A personality when it comes to succeeding on the baseball field nothing is going to take the pressure off save heavy drugs and therapy.

hi im skot
12-10-2010, 11:01 AM
Man, now I just want to hear some Quentin stories from Ranger.

DirtySox
12-10-2010, 11:04 AM
Man, now I just want to hear some Quentin stories from Ranger.

As do I. My interest is piqued.

VivaOzzie
12-10-2010, 12:18 PM
But he is definitely more intense and stranger than almost anyone that's been on the club in a few years.


Who wins a strange-off between Quentin and Everett??

RedHeadPaleHoser
12-10-2010, 12:25 PM
The offense would be top 3 in the AL if not all of baseball if both TCQ and Beckham turn it on.

I would love to see them "relax" at the plate as well with Konerko/Rios/Dunn handling the heavy lifting. That said, I could truly care less where they rank, as long as we're winning, being consistent and take the division.

MtGrnwdSoxFan
12-10-2010, 12:47 PM
Who wins a strange-off between Quentin and Everett??

I'd say the guy that doesn't believe in dinosaurs or homosexuality and routinely gets into confrontations with umpires wins out over a guy that may just be too intense for his own good.

Everett was nicknamed "Crazy Carl" for a good reason.

Ranger
12-10-2010, 01:37 PM
Doesn't the addition of Adam Dunn to the middle of the Sox lineup take some pressure off of Quentin? I hope so. Who knows, maybe this is just what he needs to relax and have a fine season.

I guess we will see.

But Cowley is the one saying that Carlos is so weird he needs to be moved....which I simply do not buy. Unless he is a bad guy,ie. a cancer in the clubhouse due to selfishness or backstabbing, just leave him alone.
When I read that conspiracy crap spewed by Luke Scott of the O's, it is clear that there might be a whole lot of guys way more wacked out than Carlos in MLB clubhouses. Personally, I think Carlos,as a Stanford guy, might be too educated/intelligent for some clubhouses ie..BlackJack McDowell.
Carlos will have a big year if the press will leave him alone.

Who wins a strange-off between Quentin and Everett??

Ha. Let me go ahead and put that one to bed: Quentin is, in no way, Carl Everett/Luke Scott-crazy. That's not what we're talking about here. Quentin is a supremely intelligent individual, and the problem is that he's maybe too aware of himself, if that makes any sense.

We're talking more about an oddness in that when he self-evaluates, he's so excruciatingly precise that it works against him. He'll have conversations with coaches about his swing or his ability that will leave them shaking their heads afterward. It's an intensity of which he just can't seem to let go.

This is nothing to do with the press and being hounded by them. In fact, he really doesn't talk all that much and he gets left alone, for the most part, prior to games. He's not goofy-weird. He's weird in a way that obviously affects his performance, and until he can ease up on himself it will always be that way. As I've said a number of times, if he just gets out of his own way, he'll be a terrific hitter.

Nobody is suggesting he should be traded just because he's abnormal. The suggestion is made because it's tough to tell when he's finally going to figure out for himself how to relax. He's definitely a source of frustration for the team because they know how good he can be, but he just needs to lighten up. And nobody can do that for him.

I know a lot of fans get fed up with Quentin in that regard, and I get frustrated too. But there is part of me that wants to continue to wait to see what he can do. Hopefully it doesn't take forever for it to click.

tstrike2000
12-10-2010, 03:50 PM
Man, now I just want to hear some Quentin stories from Ranger.

Agreed, I think Ranger will be Quentin's biographer at some point.

Nellie_Fox
12-11-2010, 12:03 AM
Agreed, I think Ranger will be Quentin's biographer at some point.If Ranger keeps talking about him on discussion boards, Quentin may never talk to him again, which would make writing his biography difficult.

Domeshot17
12-11-2010, 12:23 AM
I guess we will see.





Ha. Let me go ahead and put that one to bed: Quentin is, in no way, Carl Everett/Luke Scott-crazy. That's not what we're talking about here. Quentin is a supremely intelligent individual, and the problem is that he's maybe too aware of himself, if that makes any sense.

We're talking more about an oddness in that when he self-evaluates, he's so excruciatingly precise that it works against him. He'll have conversations with coaches about his swing or his ability that will leave them shaking their heads afterward. It's an intensity of which he just can't seem to let go.

This is nothing to do with the press and being hounded by them. In fact, he really doesn't talk all that much and he gets left alone, for the most part, prior to games. He's not goofy-weird. He's weird in a way that obviously affects his performance, and until he can ease up on himself it will always be that way. As I've said a number of times, if he just gets out of his own way, he'll be a terrific hitter.

Nobody is suggesting he should be traded just because he's abnormal. The suggestion is made because it's tough to tell when he's finally going to figure out for himself how to relax. He's definitely a source of frustration for the team because they know how good he can be, but he just needs to lighten up. And nobody can do that for him.

I know a lot of fans get fed up with Quentin in that regard, and I get frustrated too. But there is part of me that wants to continue to wait to see what he can do. Hopefully it doesn't take forever for it to click.

Who is more on the level, Quentin, or Agent Van Alden from Boardwalk Empire :tongue:.

Part of me thinks having Q hit 6th will take some pressure off him, but part of me thinks if this guy was hitting 7th for Birmingham he would have the same intense drive to try and be perfect.

Ranger
12-12-2010, 02:53 PM
It would be nice to let at least ONE rookie develop at a position from within once in awhile.

I think he has a chance unless Ozzie pulls a BA with him, which is very likely.

As much as I like Brian Anderson, BA pulled a BA on himself. He got plenty of chances and didn't capitalize on them. You think it's a mistake that he tried to come back as pitcher?

Ranger
12-12-2010, 02:59 PM
Who is more on the level, Quentin, or Agent Van Alden from Boardwalk Empire :tongue:.

Part of me thinks having Q hit 6th will take some pressure off him, but part of me thinks if this guy was hitting 7th for Birmingham he would have the same intense drive to try and be perfect.

Michael Shannon better win an Emmy for that role. That could be one of my favorite characters on TV. Just a complete psycho.

Quentin is just an over-thinker. That's really it simplified.

JermaineDye05
12-12-2010, 04:40 PM
Who is more on the level, Quentin, or Agent Van Alden from Boardwalk Empire :tongue:.

Part of me thinks having Q hit 6th will take some pressure off him, but part of me thinks if this guy was hitting 7th for Birmingham he would have the same intense drive to try and be perfect.


Michael Shannon better win an Emmy for that role. That could be one of my favorite characters on TV. Just a complete psycho.

Quentin is just an over-thinker. That's really it simplified.

Quentin reminds of Pedro Cerrano.

He just needs more rum for Jobu and hats for bats.

Lip Man 1
12-12-2010, 06:01 PM
http://www.rightfieldbleachers.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/pdvd_004bmp-724091.jpg

Lip

gr8mexico
12-12-2010, 06:08 PM
If the Sox can trade Carlos Quentin (5MIL) and Mark Buehrle (14MIL)
can they free enough money to sign Cliff Lee?
According to SI.com's Jon Heyman (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=MLB&id=3565), strong signs indicate that a third team is involved in the bidding for free agent pitcher Cliff Lee and I'm thinking that KW is flying under the radar again :cool:

1. Cliff Lee
2. Jake Peavy
3. John Danks
4. Gavin Floyd
5. Edwin Jackson

JermaineDye05
12-12-2010, 06:12 PM
If the Sox can trade Carlos Quentin (5MIL) and Mark Buehrle (14MIL)
can they free enough money to sign Cliff Lee?
According to SI.com's Jon Heyman (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=MLB&id=3565), strong signs indicate that a third team is involved in the bidding for free agent pitcher Cliff Lee and I'm thinking that KW is flying under the radar again :cool:

1. Cliff Lee
2. Jake Peavy
3. John Danks
4. Gavin Floyd
5. Edwin Jackson

The Sox are "tapped out" financially. I don't think trading Buehrle and Quentin will help us get Cliff Lee.

Also, Jerry Reinsdorf hasn't been known to give more than four years to a pitcher. Even if the Sox were in on Cliff, I doubt our offer would come close to what New York and Texas are offering.

gr8mexico
12-12-2010, 06:21 PM
The Sox are "tapped out" financially. I don't think trading Buehrle and Quentin will help us get Cliff Lee.

Also, Jerry Reinsdorf hasn't been known to give more than four years to a pitcher. Even if the Sox were in on Cliff, I doubt our offer would come close to what New York and Texas are offering.
I agree but for how many times before has KW said the team is tapped out. Then they go and get Alex Rios and Jake Peavy.
They have a real good chance to win now and get most of the city of Chicago to follow them now that the Cubs don't look to good.
Families don't want to take there kids to watch a team suck and waste money on that.

Daver
12-12-2010, 06:38 PM
If the Sox can trade Carlos Quentin (5MIL) and Mark Buehrle (14MIL)
can they free enough money to sign Cliff Lee?
According to SI.com's Jon Heyman (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=MLB&id=3565), strong signs indicate that a third team is involved in the bidding for free agent pitcher Cliff Lee and I'm thinking that KW is flying under the radar again :cool:

1. Cliff Lee
2. Jake Peavy
3. John Danks
4. Gavin Floyd
5. Edwin Jackson

I have little doubt that Jake Peavy will not be in the rotation on opening day, so trading Mark leaves exactly three viable starters on the roster, unless trading Mark brings back a starting pitcher, which I can't see happening.

For all the people thinking Mark needs to go because of his salary (which I still can't grasp as none of them pay his salary) I ask this, which two starting pitchers are you wanting to sign for less then 15 mil combined that are viable starters on a contending team?

Numbers add up to nothing, with Mark you have a proven commodity, an easy throwing lefty that is capable of pitching a shutout on any given day that doesn't get hurt. The guy didn't throw two no hitters because he can't pitch, and age is not going to make him less of a pitcher.

You don't build a champion with projections of a starter that has never started a professional baseball game in your rotation.

JermaineDye05
12-12-2010, 06:41 PM
I agree but for how many times before has KW said the team is tapped out. Then they go and get Alex Rios and Jake Peavy.
They have a real good chance to win now and get most of the city of Chicago to follow them now that the Cubs don't look to good.
Families don't want to take there kids to watch a team suck and waste money on that.

They've been doing that for over a hundred years now

The Cubs are still going to draw fairly well. Tourists will more than likely go to a Cubs game rather than the Sox, regardless of the records. Same goes for Cubs fans. I doubt they will simply abandon their team. They may stop going to games, but they won't start going to Sox games.

What Kenny has to focus on is getting SOX fans to the park because we don't tend to spend our money when we don't like the product. Though I do think that a Cliff Lee signing would certainly help bring us and the other fans to the park, I just don't think it's feasible. Kenny really did sound like the team is pretty much running on fumes financially right now. I don't think it's a smoke screen. If it were, I think he would be more committed to signing Adrian Beltre or getting one of the bullpen arms out there as the starting pitching is already damn good.

TheVulture
12-12-2010, 06:50 PM
The Sox are "tapped out" financially.

For the record, since this keeps popping up, Williams said the Sox were "pretty much tapped out." Though it may seem a fine distinction, there's a difference between "tapped out" and "pretty much tapped out" in that the latter means the Sox are in fact tapped out, while the former means the Sox aren't quite tapped out.

TheVulture
12-12-2010, 06:55 PM
I'll provide an example:

"Hey, where's that twenty bucks you owe me?"
"Sorry, I'm tapped out."

vs.
"Hey, where's that twenty bucks you owe me?"
"Well, I'm pretty much tapped out, but if you can give me a ride to the ATM I can pay you back."

Bob Roarman
12-12-2010, 07:09 PM
I agree but for how many times before has KW said the team is tapped out. Then they go and get Alex Rios and Jake Peavy.
They have a real good chance to win now and get most of the city of Chicago to follow them now that the Cubs don't look to good.
Families don't want to take there kids to watch a team suck and waste money on that.

It's a lot deeper than just winning more than the Cubs. If that was all it took, the city would've turned a while back. 05' didn't change anything in that regard.

FielderJones
12-12-2010, 08:06 PM
It's a lot deeper than just winning more than the Cubs. If that was all it took, the city would've turned a while back. 05' didn't change anything in that regard.

30 years of free Tribune Company marketing went a long way in breaking up the ebb and flow of fans choice to the two sides of town. Now that the Ricketts group has to pay for advertising, there's another expense that can't be fudged with internal corporate funny money. The recent disappointments in the postseason and the current rebuilding project, coupled with the continued recession might very well depress interest in the north side. I think Mr Reinsdorf is making a shrewd gamble on an opportunity to flip things in this town.

parlaycard
12-12-2010, 08:23 PM
The Sox arent giving ANY PITCHER a contract as long as Cliff Lee is going to get.

The Sox had a trade in place for Roy Halladay and balked at an extension. Therefore the trade to the Sox was not completed.

They aren't the mystery team in the Cliff Lee sweepstakes.

WhiteSox5187
12-12-2010, 08:45 PM
The Sox arent giving ANY PITCHER a contract as long as Cliff Lee is going to get.

The Sox had a trade in place for Roy Halladay and balked at an extension. Therefore the trade to the Sox was not completed.

They aren't the mystery team in the Cliff Lee sweepstakes.

What? When? I don't remember hearing we had a trade in place, I knew we were trying to acquire him, but there is a big difference between that and having a trade in place and not trying to extend the guy.

SoxFan456
12-12-2010, 08:52 PM
I agree but for how many times before has KW said the team is tapped out. Then they go and get Alex Rios and Jake Peavy.
They have a real good chance to win now and get most of the city of Chicago to follow them now that the Cubs don't look to good.
Families don't want to take there kids to watch a team suck and waste money on that. Agreed, the Sox will be getting the majority of Chicago's support since the Cubs look drained for next season.

parlaycard
12-12-2010, 09:25 PM
What? When? I don't remember hearing we had a trade in place, I knew we were trying to acquire him, but there is a big difference between that and having a trade in place and not trying to extend the guy.

Yes the Sox had a trade in place, I saw Kenny Williams being interviewed last season discussing it

It wasnt "announced" but KW discussed it long after Halladay had been dealt.

mzh
12-12-2010, 10:42 PM
Yes the Sox had a trade in place, I saw Kenny Williams being interviewed last season discussing it

It wasnt "announced" but KW discussed it long after Halladay had been dealt.
IIRC there was supposedly a deal in place, but Halladay wouldn't waive his NTC to come here. It was mentioned several times we were not one of the teams on his list

Frontman
12-12-2010, 10:46 PM
Agreed, the Sox will be getting the majority of Chicago's support since the Cubs look drained for next season.

Sorry, but that's a pipe dream. Majority of support will NEVER happen; as long as Wrigley is standing. Even 10-20 years after that ballpark collapses on itself; the casual Cub fan will still be a casual Cub fan. If winning a World Series didn't get them to come in droves; being the better team won't get them to come in droves either.

As far as "nearly tapped out" I believe you can assume Kenny means that a big name signing probably isn't going to happen now that Dunn/Paulie/AJ have signed. Rick Hahn on White Sox weekly yesterday pretty much wrote off Bobby Jenks returning based solely on how much Bobby's talents/experience will demand. To me; it sounds like whatever budget they've got left needs to fill out the bullpen and that will be it.

RCWHITESOX
12-13-2010, 12:07 AM
I say take a look at Scott Sheilds and Brian Fuentes if the price is right.

DSpivack
12-13-2010, 12:23 AM
Even if the Sox had the money to spend I would want no part of signing a 32-year old pitcher to a massive 7-year deal.

guillensdisciple
12-13-2010, 12:26 AM
I really really want the Sox to take Guerrier and Crain. It would be sweet poetry to see them shut down the Twins.

Hitmen77
12-13-2010, 08:25 AM
Even if the Sox had the money to spend I would want no part of signing a 32-year old pitcher to a massive 7-year deal.

I completely agree. It might be great for the first year or two, but at the annual pay that he'll get out of a 7-year deal, that sounds like a contract that would likely handcuff the White Sox payroll in the last 4 or 5 years of that deal.

TheOldRoman
12-13-2010, 09:29 AM
IIRC there was supposedly a deal in place, but Halladay wouldn't waive his NTC to come here. It was mentioned several times we were not one of the teams on his listWell, KW never acknowledged they traded for Halladay, just "someone great". He hinted enough that it was clear he was talking about Halladay. KW told Chuck Garfein that the trade actually went through but they couldn't get an extension worked out (and Halladay ended up signing for 3 year/$60 million). So apparently he did waive his no trade to come here.

gr8mexico
12-13-2010, 09:55 AM
The Sox arent giving ANY PITCHER a contract as long as Cliff Lee is going to get.

The Sox had a trade in place for Roy Halladay and balked at an extension. Therefore the trade to the Sox was not completed.

They aren't the mystery team in the Cliff Lee sweepstakes.
Maybe the Sox are only going 4 to 5 years
Here is the new rumor about the mystery team
The unidentified third team is only willing to go four or five years, writes George A. King III of the New York Post (http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/yankees/take_it_or_lee_ve_it_rRYfdOOkLv26dwTUA4MSII).

soltrain21
12-13-2010, 10:12 AM
Maybe the Sox are only going 4 to 5 years
Here is the new rumor about the mystery team
The unidentified third team is only willing to go four or five years, writes George A. King III of the New York Post (http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/yankees/take_it_or_lee_ve_it_rRYfdOOkLv26dwTUA4MSII).

Well then it doesn't even matter. Why would Lee accept 3 years less?

TheOldRoman
12-13-2010, 10:44 AM
Well then it doesn't even matter. Why would Lee accept 3 years less?He would accept three years less if it was the same amount of money spread out over fewer years. He'd be dumb not to. However, that would be paying him $35 million per year, and nobody is going to do that.

JermaineDye05
12-13-2010, 10:46 AM
He would accept three years less if it was the same amount of money spread out over fewer years. He'd be dumb not to. However, that would be paying him $35 million per year, and nobody is going to do that.

I don't know. There's always someone.

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:Unx2YBWG6DbYrM:http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu357/the_weirdo9/Random/Reaction%20face/trollface.png&t=1

guillensdisciple
12-13-2010, 12:27 PM
Maybe the Sox are only going 4 to 5 years
Here is the new rumor about the mystery team
The unidentified third team is only willing to go four or five years, writes George A. King III of the New York Post (http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/yankees/take_it_or_lee_ve_it_rRYfdOOkLv26dwTUA4MSII).

Wow, maybe it is the Sox. Maybe someone is selling him on the commitment to winning now. Does not make sense considering the Yanks and Rangers are better equipped than we aare, but maybe he's good friends with someone in the Sox organization?

I'm not going to even think about getting my hopes up, but what a stunner it would be if that were the case.

JermaineDye05
12-13-2010, 12:43 PM
Wow, maybe it is the Sox. Maybe someone is selling him on the commitment to winning now. Does not make sense considering the Yanks and Rangers are better equipped than we aare, but maybe he's good friends with someone in the Sox organization?

I'm not going to even think about getting my hopes up, but what a stunner it would be if that were the case.

I still think it's the Tigers. They have more money, and more need for pitching. With Mags coming off the books this past year, they could feasibly offer Lee an attractive deal. Though I still think he'll take one of the seven year deals that are out there.

Buster Olney mentioned that the mystery team could easily just be the agent blowing smoke up the asses of the actual teams bidding on Lee.

parlaycard
12-13-2010, 04:13 PM
He would accept three years less if it was the same amount of money spread out over fewer years. He'd be dumb not to. However, that would be paying him $35 million per year, and nobody is going to do that.

There is one team that does dumb things like this. And they are located in Chicago.

asindc
12-13-2010, 04:24 PM
I still think it's the Tigers. They have more money, and more need for pitching. With Mags coming off the books this past year, they could feasibly offer Lee an attractive deal. Though I still think he'll take one of the seven year deals that are out there.

Buster Olney mentioned that the mystery team could easily just be the agent blowing smoke up the asses of the actual teams bidding on Lee.

The word is that Detroit is looking to re-sign Maggs.

ghostface36
12-14-2010, 11:05 AM
it was the phillies
their rotation is lethal