PDA

View Full Version : Konerko Rumors- Phase II Now Open


Daver
12-07-2010, 04:16 PM
Have at it.

soltrain21
12-07-2010, 04:17 PM
If we are moving onto Plan B, then I hope it happens before Plan B get picked up by someone else.

Let's make it quick. We obviously have the money.

JermaineDye05
12-07-2010, 04:17 PM
Well, before the last thread closed, it was looking like that Konerko is gone. Both Garfien and Cowley tweeting that the ship has pretty much sailed. Kenny is moving on.

Rockabilly
12-07-2010, 04:18 PM
Lets make a trade for Prince

soltrain21
12-07-2010, 04:18 PM
Lets make a trade for Prince

Gavin Floyd and what? As much as I love Prince, I don't think we have the horses to get it done.

chunk
12-07-2010, 04:19 PM
Gavin Floyd and what? As much as I love Prince, I don't think we have the horses to get it done.

If AGon set the going rate, Floyd might be an overpayment.

Rockabilly
12-07-2010, 04:20 PM
Gavin Floyd and what? As much as I love Prince, I don't think we have the horses to get it done.


Heyman reported that the Sox have called the Brewers about Fielder

JermaineDye05
12-07-2010, 04:21 PM
If AGon set the going rate, Floyd might be an overpayment.

Alright. Let's just get Milwaukee's GM fired and send Rick Hahn to take over.

keloms
12-07-2010, 04:21 PM
Could be a negotiating tactic. Perhaps Sox gave Konerko a deadline and he wasn't ready to commit yet? Offer could still be out there, but, discussions with Plan B & C now starting.

JermaineDye05
12-07-2010, 04:22 PM
FWIW

Kenny says he's turning the page. He's not pessimistic about PK, but he's no longer optimistic. 1 minute ago (http://twitter.com/ChuckGarfien/status/12270194273554433) via txt (http://twitter.com/devices) Retweeted by 1 person
http://a2.twimg.com/profile_images/1170850498/DSCN1905_bigger.JPG (http://twitter.com/ChuckGarfien)
ChuckGarfien (http://twitter.com/ChuckGarfien)

KW will hold meetings tonight with other representatives. Doesn't mean Konerko talks are done, but Sox need to cover themselves. half a minute ago (http://twitter.com/ChuckGarfien/status/12270474520170496) via txt (http://twitter.com/devices) Retweeted by 1 person
http://a2.twimg.com/profile_images/1170850498/DSCN1905_bigger.JPG (http://twitter.com/ChuckGarfien)
ChuckGarfien (http://twitter.com/ChuckGarfien)

It's not dead, but it's on life support.

beasly213
12-07-2010, 04:22 PM
Mlbtraderumors.com still thinks it could happen.

The Konerko ship may be sailing, Cowley writes. Even though talks have hit a snag, it does seem that there's a fit here.

hawkjt
12-07-2010, 04:24 PM
Cowley says that signing PK was emminent then something happened and now Kenny is talking about moving on.
Weird. What possibly could screw it up at the last minute?

Cowley is talking about derrick lee as a possibility now.
Supposedly,Lee's wrist was hurt last year,and now is better,so he might be the kind of on-the-cheap bounceback vet that Jerry loves.

Still think that PK will come around for 40 million/ 3 years....come home,PK!!

Boondock Saint
12-07-2010, 04:24 PM
Sounds like **** just got real, and KW is going into assassin mode. "You don't want to sign? Fine. I'll make a move that makes you little more than an afterthought."

JermaineDye05
12-07-2010, 04:24 PM
Mlbtraderumors.com still thinks it could happen.

The Konerko ship may be sailing, Cowley writes. Even though talks have hit a snag, it does seem that there's a fit here.

Our only hope is that the other teams that are vying for Konerko's services are either A) Not contenders or B) not offering as much as the Sox.

soltrain21
12-07-2010, 04:26 PM
Mlbtraderumors.com still thinks it could happen.

The Konerko ship may be sailing, Cowley writes. Even though talks have hit a snag, it does seem that there's a fit here.

They know absolutely nothing. They are no better than us sitting on here reading Twitter.

SoxSpeed22
12-07-2010, 04:26 PM
Paulie leaving would hurt a lot more if we didn't already have Dunn, even if he's not the best choice for first base.

russ99
12-07-2010, 04:27 PM
Could be a negotiating tactic. Perhaps Sox gave Konerko a deadline and he wasn't ready to commit yet? Offer could still be out there, but, discussions with Plan B & C now starting.

Totally a negotiating tactic. Paul's agent throws out a crazy number, the Sox respond, since coming back is still his best option.

Door's closing Paulie.... what's it gonna be - in or out? Podsednik totally messed up in a similar situation, hopefully Paul's a bit smarter.

beasly213
12-07-2010, 04:27 PM
Who knows how this is going to turn out. After 05 Konerko was very close to signing with the Angels but ended back with the Sox.

RedHeadPaleHoser
12-07-2010, 04:29 PM
I have faith that PK will be back with the White Sox. That said, KW needs to do what's best for the team and explore other options. Let's hope that the Sox have more options than PK does.

Evman5
12-07-2010, 04:30 PM
KW is playing chicken right now

russ99
12-07-2010, 04:32 PM
KW is playing chicken right now

I think it's more Paul playing chicken in this situation, assuming he can get that kind of salary somewhere else, which I have doubt he can.

Agents have started a fake bidding war in the past.

BadBobbyJenks
12-07-2010, 04:33 PM
Go get Crawford then.

JermaineDye05
12-07-2010, 04:38 PM
Kenny Williams will be on Chicago Tribune Live on CSN at 530. less than 20 seconds ago (http://twitter.com/ChuckGarfien/status/12274632610545664) via txt (http://twitter.com/devices)
http://a2.twimg.com/profile_images/1170850498/DSCN1905_bigger.JPG (http://twitter.com/ChuckGarfien)
ChuckGarfien (http://twitter.com/ChuckGarfien)

Assume he will address the Konerko situation.

SoxNation05
12-07-2010, 04:38 PM
No one will pay 15 million.

Arizona and Baltimore suck.

Rangers have a great offense already and should be more interested in Lee.

Boston has Gonzalez.

We are the only team that can win and give him a decent contract.

chunk
12-07-2010, 04:39 PM
Arizona and Baltimore suck.

Rangers have a great offense already and should be more interested in Lee.

Boston has Gonzalez.

We are the only team that can win and give him a decent contract.

If KW doesn't sign him, Rangers are the best outcome from simple draft perspective.

JermaineDye05
12-07-2010, 04:41 PM
Arizona and Baltimore suck.

Rangers have a great offense already and should be more interested in Lee.

Boston has Gonzalez.

We are the only team that can win and give him a decent contract.

I think there are other teams out there that haven't been mentioned. Such as perhaps the Braves and Rockies?

1989
12-07-2010, 04:42 PM
If this is true, Derrek Lee would be the second best option here. In fact, he very well could be the best option.

whitesoxfan1986
12-07-2010, 04:43 PM
If KW doesn't sign him, Rangers are the best outcome from simple draft perspective.
Yeah, because we'd only lose a few spots in the draft from when we signed Dunn. Didn't the Rangers only win 89 games?

JermaineDye05
12-07-2010, 04:43 PM
FWIW

Source: "I talked to Paulie last night and he said the Sox were his priority unless they made an offer that disrespected him.'' less than 20 seconds ago (http://twitter.com/cst_sox/status/12275913894920192) via TweetDeck (http://www.tweetdeck.com/)
http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/1130468780/9-15_20Lachat_20cowley_201_bigger.jpg (http://twitter.com/cst_sox)
cst_sox (http://twitter.com/cst_sox)

Boondock Saint
12-07-2010, 04:45 PM
FWIW

Source: "I talked to Paulie last night and he said the Sox were his priority unless they made an offer that disrespected him.'' less than 20 seconds ago (http://twitter.com/cst_sox/status/12275913894920192) via TweetDeck (http://www.tweetdeck.com/)
http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/1130468780/9-15_20Lachat_20cowley_201_bigger.jpg (http://twitter.com/cst_sox)
cst_sox (http://twitter.com/cst_sox)

Cue panicked overreaction/fire KW posts.

Rockabilly
12-07-2010, 04:47 PM
http://www.sportsfanlive.com/web/article?action=viewArticle&articleId=9586043&team=mlb-chicago_white_sox&tid=twitter

JermaineDye05
12-07-2010, 04:48 PM
Cue panicked overreaction/fire KW posts.

Yeah, sounds like Cowley stirring the pot bull****.

DumpJerry
12-07-2010, 04:48 PM
I am busting a lung laughing at how people take as gospel tweets (which seem to change every three minutes) from people who are not involved in the actual negotiations. Were are these reporters getting their information from that they are tweeting? From WSI? Are they being played by the team and Paulie's peeps with misinformation? Inquiring minds want to know.

soltrain21
12-07-2010, 04:51 PM
I am busting a lung laughing at how people take as gospel tweets (which seem to change every three minutes) from people who are not involved in the actual negotiations. Were are these reporters getting their information from that they are tweeting? From WSI? Are they being played by the team and Paulie's peeps with misinformation? Inquiring minds want to know.

I don't think anyone is taking them as "gospel." We are just talking about what they are Tweeting. What the hell else are we supposed to do on a message board?

Something gets brought up, we discuss it. crazy idea, I know!

chunk
12-07-2010, 04:52 PM
Yeah, because we'd only lose a few spots in the draft from when we signed Dunn. Didn't the Rangers only win 89 games?

We'd go from the 23rd pick (which we don't have anymore) to the 26th, plus get a supplemental pick.

keloms
12-07-2010, 04:53 PM
Kenny is on MLB network right now and from how he's talking, it sounds simply like the Sox deadline for only pursuing Konerko have passed so now they are expanding discussions with Plan B and C, not that they have written off resigning him or don't expect him back.

russ99
12-07-2010, 04:54 PM
Cue panicked overreaction/fire KW posts.

Oh, please. I'm so tired of this "disrespected" crap.

Dye felt disrespected and now he's an afterthought. Sammy Sosa too.

Are guys so shallow where the difference between $13M and $15M equals respect? Much less someone like Paul who I thought wasn't like that.

Boondock Saint
12-07-2010, 04:56 PM
Kenny is on MLB network right now and from how he's talking, it sounds simply like the Sox deadline for Konerko passed so now they are progressing discussions with Plan B and C, not that they have written off resigning him.

If that's the case, then kudos to KW for taking action. Being reactive instead of proactive in free agency will leave you empty handed every time.

Frontman
12-07-2010, 04:57 PM
Konerko and the Sox negotiations are similar, in my mind; to the Jeter/Yankees negotiations. The Sox might need Paulie more than the Yankees need Jeter, but the market isn't there for what Paulie wants.

Either way; I hope Paul signs with us or another team. The thought of Konerko sitting out part (or all) of the 2011 season like Dye wound up doing isn't one I like.

hi im skot
12-07-2010, 04:57 PM
Oh, please. I'm so tired of this "disrespected" crap.

Dye felt disrespected and now he's an afterthought. Sammy Sosa too.

Are guys so shallow where the difference between $13M and $15M equals respect? Much less someone like Paul who I thought wasn't like that.

We don't know the whole story. We don't know that Konerko actually feels "disrespected", or if he actually even made that comment.

I refuse to get worked up over this until something is confirmed one way or the other.

hi im skot
12-07-2010, 04:58 PM
Either way; I hope Paul signs with us or another team. The thought of Konerko sitting out part (or all) of the 2011 season like Dye wound up doing isn't one I like.

There is absolutely no way Konerko sits out 2011.

Boondock Saint
12-07-2010, 04:58 PM
Oh, please. I'm so tired of this "disrespected" crap.

Dye felt disrespected and now he's an afterthought. Sammy Sosa too.

Are guys so shallow where the difference between $13M and $15M equals respect? Much less someone like Paul who I thought wasn't like that.

Was this meant to be in response to my post? If so, I don't get it. :scratch:

Frontman
12-07-2010, 05:02 PM
There is absolutely no way Konerko sits out 2011.

A lot of us said the same thing about Dye in 2010.

Frontman
12-07-2010, 05:03 PM
Was this meant to be in response to my post? If so, I don't get it. :scratch:

Actually, I think it was in reply to both your comments and the post you commented on originally. You replied to the one where Konerko's rep said, "...unless they disrespected me..." with their offer.

JermaineDye05
12-07-2010, 05:03 PM
A lot of us said the same thing about Dye in 2010.

Yeah, but Dye didn't have an MVP caliber season. He also didn't have teams offering him contracts to start or play in the outfield on a regular basis. Konerko has all of the above.

hi im skot
12-07-2010, 05:03 PM
A lot of us said the same thing about Dye in 2010.

Dye wasn't coming off an MVP-caliber season.

The odds of Konerko sitting out the 2011 season are about as high as Pujols sitting out the 2011 season; it ain't happening.

whitem0nkey
12-07-2010, 05:03 PM
Twitter has made following these kind of moves more fun. The negotiations are extremely fluid and as they change hour by hour we can follow.

And for the anti twitter crowd they can just wait till news is official and avoid all the dead end leads.

chunk
12-07-2010, 05:06 PM
Twitter has made following these kind of moves more fun. The negotiations are extremely fluid and as they change hour by hour we can follow.

And for the anti twitter crowd they can just wait till news is official and avoid all the dead end leads.

Twitter and sports is a great combo.

Frontman
12-07-2010, 05:06 PM
Twitter has made following these kind of moves more fun. The negotiations are extremely fluid and as they change hour by hour we can follow.

And for the anti twitter crowd they can just wait till news is official and avoid all the dead end leads.

I'm anti-twitter; for two reasons:

A: I care so little to follow someone's every move and what they're doing at every moment. (Plus, I'm of a mindset that if its worth writing, its worth writing well. t3xt/l33t speak annoys me to no end.)

B: Twitter isn't the most well thought out name. Naming your company/product after what some parents use as a term for private parts doesn't work out well. :D:

hi im skot
12-07-2010, 05:09 PM
I'm anti-twitter; for two reasons:

A: I care so little to follow someone's every move and what they're doing at every moment. (Plus, I'm of a mindset that if its worth writing, its worth writing well. t3xt/l33t speak annoys me to no end.)

B: Twitter isn't the most well thought out name. Naming your company/product after what some parents use as a term for private parts doesn't work out well. :D:

A. Jon Heyman reports baseball news, not what he ate for lunch.

B. :?: I've never heard of anyone use the word "Twitter" for anything other than a social networking site.

nccwsfan
12-07-2010, 05:09 PM
No one will pay 15 million.

Arizona and Baltimore suck.

Rangers have a great offense already and should be more interested in Lee.

Boston has Gonzalez.

We are the only team that can win and give him a decent contract.


Exactly. PK is not sitting out the year, he's not being disrespected by the organization, and this reeks of a negotiating tactic by KW. Hopefully Konerko realizes this and re signs. I'm still optimistic this will happen.

Frontman
12-07-2010, 05:11 PM
A. Jon Heyman reports baseball news, not what he ate for lunch.

B. :?: I've never heard of anyone use the word "Twitter" for anything other than a social networking site.

Does everything need to be in teal around here?

Rockabilly
12-07-2010, 05:11 PM
According to ESPN

PK wants Dunn money or maybe a little bit more

Sox offer was 3 yr/39M

http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/news/story?id=5896450

sox1970
12-07-2010, 05:15 PM
If they guaranteed 3 years at $39, and he turned it down, I don't blame the Sox for moving on. Too bad it's come to this for the "captain" of the team.

Lyle Mouton
12-07-2010, 05:17 PM
Holy hell. 3/$39 is plenty of money for a guy with PK's skillset. Come on down Derrek Lee.

Noneck
12-07-2010, 05:17 PM
Naming your company/product after what some parents use as a term for private parts doesn't work out well. :D:


I have NEVER heard twitter used in that context. I doubt many others have either.

nccwsfan
12-07-2010, 05:20 PM
According to ESPN

PK wants Dunn money or maybe a little bit more

Sox offer was 3 yr/39M

http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/news/story?id=5896450

If 3 years/$42MM (or $14 MM per) is what it takes to get the deal done I'd be shocked if they couldn't come to some sort of mutual agreement.

nccwsfan
12-07-2010, 05:22 PM
Jon Heyman tweet:

konerko's agent is pressing beyond where #chisox had planned. but theres still pretty decent optimism for deal.

UofCSoxFan
12-07-2010, 05:23 PM
Holy hell. 3/$39 is plenty of money for a guy with PK's skillset. Come on down Derrek Lee.

If he wants Dunn money on a per year basis its pretty close. No way do I give Konerko 4 years (not sure he's looking for it) so annually its a little over $1 million per year. While that certainly isn't a trivial amount, even for a millionaire I think if Konerko goes to Baltimore over that amount he'd really regret it. Nor do I think the Sox should give in. $13 million is more than Konerko's worth. He traditionaly is good in contract years and for half to 2/3 of a year in noncontract years. Paying him more than that at the expense of a good bullpen arm doesn't make sense to me.

I hope he comes back, but I also hope he comes to his senses.

Noneck
12-07-2010, 05:24 PM
If 3 years/$42MM (or $14 MM per) is what it takes to get the deal done I'd be shocked if they couldn't come to some sort of mutual agreement.

According to release it sounds like he's the type of guy that wants 3yrs/ $42,000,000.01

Rockabilly
12-07-2010, 05:26 PM
IMO If PK is a true captain of the Sox. He would take less money for the team to use the xtra cash for the bullpen.

Thats why I believe Buehrle is the real deal and took a lot less money to stay with the Sox.

illinibk
12-07-2010, 05:34 PM
Twitter has made following these kind of moves more fun. The negotiations are extremely fluid and as they change hour by hour we can follow.

And for the anti twitter crowd they can just wait till news is official and avoid all the dead end leads.
You know, I'd love for the negotiations to break down Pawn Stars style.

Landis: I've got a Paul Konerko here. Great first baseman, MVP like numbers this past season.

Rick: You looking to pawn him or sell him?

Landis: I'd like to pawn him. 4 years, $60MM.

Rick: Wow, a lot more than I expected. But you know what, I've got a buddy (WSI) that knows all about him. Why don't we talk with my buddy to I can find out more about Konerko and what he's worth.

WSI: So you've got a Konerko, who plays solid defense, great clubhouse guy. 2010 slash line of .312/.393/.584 with 39 HR and 111 RBIs. You don't see these come around that often.

Landis: So how much do you think it's worth?

WSI: At this age and in this condition, I'd say at auction, you could see 3 years, $42MM, with a $15MM club option for a fourth year with a $2MM buyout.

later on...

Rick (talking to the camera in the back room): Now that I know what I've got in front of me, I want it even more, but only if the price is right.

Rick: So, how much do you want for Konerko?

Landis: You heard WSI, I'll do 4 years, $55MM.

Rick: Uhhhhh no way. WSI said at auction, three years with an option year. I'll do 3/$40.

Landis: Can you do 3/$45? With an option year?

Old Man: How about 3/$35?

Landis: Don't disrespect me. 3/$40, $12MM mutual option for fourth year year, $2MM buyout.

Rick: Uhhh. Umm. OK, you've got a deal. Let's go do some paperwork.

soltrain21
12-07-2010, 05:34 PM
IMO If PK is a true captain of the Sox. He would take less money for the team to use the xtra cash for the bullpen.

Thats why I believe Buehrle is the real deal and took a lot less money to stay with the Sox.

Mark is overpaid.

BadBobbyJenks
12-07-2010, 05:35 PM
KW is on Chicago Tribune Live right now.

Said it is not over, but he is not going to sit around and wait with other things that need to be addressed.

Boondock Saint
12-07-2010, 05:35 PM
According to ESPN

PK wants Dunn money or maybe a little bit more

Sox offer was 3 yr/39M

http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/news/story?id=5896450

I'm not saying that Konerko or his agent have used this term (It certainly doesn't seem like something Konerko would say), but if it is a term one of them used, it just reeks of jealousy.

DickAllen72
12-07-2010, 05:37 PM
Oh, please. I'm so tired of this "disrespected" crap.

Dye felt disrespected and now he's an afterthought. Sammy Sosa too.

Are guys so shallow where the difference between $13M and $15M equals respect? Much less someone like Paul who I thought wasn't like that.
It's just Cowley trying to stir **** up against Kenny again. Cowley's an ass, don't pay attention to anything he says.

whitem0nkey
12-07-2010, 05:44 PM
Didn't PK take a paycut after 05, if yes then I completely get why he wants what he feels is fair money, 15M per.

chunk
12-07-2010, 05:47 PM
Didn't PK take a paycut after 05, if yes then I completely get why he wants what he feels is fair money, 15M per.

It wasn't a paycut, he just took less money to not go to Baltimore.

Domeshot17
12-07-2010, 05:51 PM
I don't blame PK for trying to get every cent he can. This is probably his last deal. I find it comical that someone said PK would be overpaid at 13-14 per but Buehrle is a bargain at 14.5? Buehrle is the biggest reason the Sox are in this jam. Our number 5 SP makes number 1 money and pitches like a number 3. Konerko probably deserves the same kind of loyalty. Especially coming off an MVP caliber year, you can't fault him much. Hell, freaking Aubrey Huff is making 11 per.

In terms of Derek Lee, I really don't like the signing there. Would rather we focus on LaRoche. Lee isn't a power hitter anymore, and whoever we get has to hit in the middle of the order. A middle of the order of Rios-Dunn-Quentin probably won't get it done.

Rocky Soprano
12-07-2010, 05:52 PM
PK is nuts if he thinks he is worth 15 Million per year.
Thanks for the memories PK but we can use that money for LaRoche and our bullpen.

WhiteSox5187
12-07-2010, 05:54 PM
Mark is overpaid.

That contract was signed before the market fell apart with the economy in '08, at the time it was considered a bargain and a hometown discount.

As for the Konerko situation, it really sounds like typical negotiation. I don't think things are dire, I think both sides are negotiating in the press here. I won't get worried either way.

whitem0nkey
12-07-2010, 05:56 PM
It wasn't a paycut, he just took less money to not go to Baltimore.

Same diff, no need for semantics.

I think its immature that some sox fans expect him to take less money again.

JermaineDye05
12-07-2010, 05:57 PM
The rumor just crazy enough to make you say hmmmmmm? Konerko to the Cubs. Say it ain't so Paulie ... say it ain't so. less than 20 seconds ago (http://twitter.com/cst_sox/status/12294491641749504) via TweetDeck (http://www.tweetdeck.com/)
http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/1130468780/9-15_20Lachat_20cowley_201_bigger.jpg (http://twitter.com/cst_sox)
cst_sox (http://twitter.com/cst_sox)

chunk
12-07-2010, 05:57 PM
Same diff, no need for semantics.

I think its immature that some sox fans expect him to take less money again.

He signed a very fair contract for his skillset. 15 mil per is an overpayment.

hi im skot
12-07-2010, 05:57 PM
The rumor just crazy enough to make you say hmmmmmm? Konerko to the Cubs. Say it ain't so Paulie ... say it ain't so. less than 20 seconds ago (http://twitter.com/cst_sox/status/12294491641749504) via TweetDeck (http://www.tweetdeck.com/)
http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/1130468780/9-15_20Lachat_20cowley_201_bigger.jpg (http://twitter.com/cst_sox)
cst_sox (http://twitter.com/cst_sox)

Go away, Cowley.

sox1970
12-07-2010, 05:57 PM
I don't blame PK for trying to get every cent he can. This is probably his last deal. I find it comical that someone said PK would be overpaid at 13-14 per but Buehrle is a bargain at 14.5? Buehrle is the biggest reason the Sox are in this jam. Our number 5 SP makes number 1 money and pitches like a number 3. Konerko probably deserves the same kind of loyalty. Especially coming off an MVP caliber year, you can't fault him much. Hell, freaking Aubrey Huff is making 11 per.

In terms of Derek Lee, I really don't like the signing there. Would rather we focus on LaRoche. Lee isn't a power hitter anymore, and whoever we get has to hit in the middle of the order. A middle of the order of Rios-Dunn-Quentin probably won't get it done.

It's kind of ridiculous to compare Buehrle at age 28 to Konerko at age 35.

You pay the market price for the production you expect during the contract years; not what he's done in the past. 3/39 is more than fair. If the Sox have to move on by Wednesday, I don't blame them. They'll still get a good 1B and have more money for the bullpen and the two draft picks they'll get.

As far as Lee, I think the repaired thumb will help his production. We've seen it firsthand with Paulie that if your thumb is messed up, it'll show in the numbers.

whitem0nkey
12-07-2010, 05:59 PM
IMO If PK is a true captain of the Sox. He would take less money for the team to use the xtra cash for the bullpen.

Thats why I believe Buehrle is the real deal and took a lot less money to stay with the Sox.

PK already took less money with his last deal, does that not count?

Imagine if your current job asked u to take a pay cut for the past 5 years, and now they want u to take another pay cut.

asindc
12-07-2010, 06:00 PM
Same diff, no need for semantics.

I think its immature that some sox fans expect him to take less money again.

Less money than what? As far as any of us knows, the Sox have offered the largest contract to PK at this point. Even if that is not the case, most posters have said that if he wants more, let him get it from another team. That is not expecting him to take less.

Domeshot17
12-07-2010, 06:00 PM
It's kind of ridiculous to compare Buehrle at age 28 to Konerko at age 35.

You pay the market price for the production you expect during the contract years; not what he's done in the past. 3/39 is more than fair. If the Sox have to move on by Wednesday, I don't blame them. They'll still get a good 1B and have more money for the bullpen and the two draft picks they'll get.

As far as Lee, I think the repaired thumb will help his production. We've seen it firsthand with Paulie that if your thumb is messed up, it'll show in the numbers.

Konerko at 34 earned more of his salary then Buehrle has since he signed his deal. He threw 2 gems, but a few seasons he really did nothing when we needed him to step up in the rotation.

Frontman
12-07-2010, 06:00 PM
The rumor just crazy enough to make you say hmmmmmm? Konerko to the Cubs. Say it ain't so Paulie ... say it ain't so. less than 20 seconds ago (http://twitter.com/cst_sox/status/12294491641749504) via TweetDeck (http://www.tweetdeck.com/)
http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/1130468780/9-15_20Lachat_20cowley_201_bigger.jpg (http://twitter.com/cst_sox)
cst_sox (http://twitter.com/cst_sox)

I take it back; I'd rather see someone post about what coffee they ordered.

Boondock Saint
12-07-2010, 06:00 PM
The rumor just crazy enough to make you say hmmmmmm? Konerko to the Cubs. Say it ain't so Paulie ... say it ain't so. less than 20 seconds ago (http://twitter.com/cst_sox/status/12294491641749504) via TweetDeck (http://www.tweetdeck.com/)
http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/1130468780/9-15_20Lachat_20cowley_201_bigger.jpg (http://twitter.com/cst_sox)
cst_sox (http://twitter.com/cst_sox)

I think every Cowley post should come with an "Everybody panic!" tag of some sort.

sox1970
12-07-2010, 06:00 PM
PK already took less money with his last deal, does that not count?

Imagine if your current job asked u to take a pay cut for the past 5 years, and now they want u to take another pay cut.

What are you talking about? He's never taken a pay cut, and if he's unhappy about the last deal then he shouldn't have signed it, and gone to Baltimore.

Noneck
12-07-2010, 06:02 PM
The rumor just crazy enough to make you say hmmmmmm? Konerko to the Cubs. Say it ain't so Paulie ... say it ain't so. less than 20 seconds ago (http://twitter.com/cst_sox/status/12294491641749504) via TweetDeck (http://www.tweetdeck.com/)
http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/1130468780/9-15_20Lachat_20cowley_201_bigger.jpg (http://twitter.com/cst_sox)
cst_sox (http://twitter.com/cst_sox)

This guy sounds like he loves using a oar and a vat for his stirring.

The Immigrant
12-07-2010, 06:03 PM
Mark is overpaid.

Beat me to it.

Frontman
12-07-2010, 06:12 PM
Matt Abattacola just stated on Facebook that the Orioles are claiming PK will sign with the Sox. Who knows the timing on all of this (or if a single rumor reported today is true) but that might be good news then.

whitem0nkey
12-07-2010, 06:12 PM
What are you talking about? He's never taken a pay cut, and if he's unhappy about the last deal then he shouldn't have signed it, and gone to Baltimore.

He signed for a hometown discount, and left money on the table. 5 years later were asking for him to sign for less again.

Let me know if your still not sure what I'm talking about.

I find its perfectly fair for some one to feel leaving money on the table once is fine but a 2nd time is not fair, and the sox would be taking advantage of his generosity.

The Immigrant
12-07-2010, 06:15 PM
He signed for a hometown discount, and left money on the table. 5 years later were asking for him to sign for less again.

Less than what? Unless someone else is offering him a better deal - and we would have heard about it by now - the market has spoken. Now he's just posturing.

JermaineDye05
12-07-2010, 06:15 PM
Matt Abattacola just stated on Facebook that the Orioles are claiming PK will sign with the Sox. Who knows the timing on all of this (or if a single rumor reported today is true) but that might be good news then.

There was a tweet by Jerry Crasnick a couple hours ago that voiced this sentiment. I wouldn't put too much credence to it.

Konerko is ultimately making the decision. Not the O's.

Domeshot17
12-07-2010, 06:16 PM
He signed for a hometown discount, and left money on the table. 5 years later were asking for him to sign for less again.

Let me know if your still not sure what I'm talking about.

I find its perfectly fair for some one to feel leaving money on the table once is fine but a 2nd time is not fair, and the sox would be taking advantage of his generosity.

The thing to me is the Sox have never really been "loyal" to PK. They haven't screwed him, but both times they didn't approach him with an extension offer early, choosing to let the season play out and wait and see. That is fine, but PK is pretty much doing the same thing. I remember in 2005, Konerko's dad talking about how upsetting it was to Konerko to not be offered an extension, then expected to take a home town discount.

Rocky Soprano
12-07-2010, 06:17 PM
He signed for a hometown discount, and left money on the table. 5 years later were asking for him to sign for less again.

Let me know if your still not sure what I'm talking about.

I find its perfectly fair for some one to feel leaving money on the table once is fine but a 2nd time is not fair, and the sox would be taking advantage of his generosity.

:rolleyes:

Poor Konerko, how is he going to feed his family on 13 Million per year.

If he truly wants to win and knows that him taking a little less money will help the team sign those pieces then he will do it.

Frontman
12-07-2010, 06:17 PM
There was a tweet by Jerry Crasnick a couple hours ago that voiced this sentiment. I wouldn't put too much credence to it.

Konerko is ultimately making the decision. Not the O's.

Well, ultimately; that's the point. What's the point of us discussing PK taking a "pay cut" or not, because it's Konerko's decision and nothing we will say in this thread will change the outcome of his decision.

It's just something to talk about in the meantime.

Rockabilly
12-07-2010, 06:17 PM
The thing to me is the Sox have never really been "loyal" to PK. They haven't screwed him, but both times they didn't approach him with an offer early, choosing to let the season play out and wait and see. That is fine, but PK is pretty much doing the same thing.

I believe that PK wanted to wait until the season was over to talk about a new deal.

Frontman
12-07-2010, 06:19 PM
I believe that PK wanted to wait until the season was over to talk about a new deal.

I was just going to say that. I think he also said the same thing in 2005.

Boondock Saint
12-07-2010, 06:19 PM
:rolleyes:

Poor Konerko, how is he going to feed his family on 13 Million per year.

If he truly wants to win and knows that him taking a little less money will help the team sign those pieces then he will do it.

Jesus, this again. Don't give the players **** for getting what the industry decides they're worth. If you're pissed about the amount of money the players make, send an email to MLB.

BadBobbyJenks
12-07-2010, 06:20 PM
Well if it is between the O's and Sox, I would be Jayson Werth to the Nats for a bajillion dollars surprised if Konerko went to Baltimore.

Domeshot17
12-07-2010, 06:20 PM
:rolleyes:

Poor Konerko, how is he going to feed his family on 13 Million per year.

If he truly wants to win and knows that him taking a little less money will help the team sign those pieces then he will do it.

If he wants to win he will probably go to Texas

soxlady8
12-07-2010, 06:23 PM
Paula Farris just said some stuff that the Sox are ready to go on without Paulie ... YUCK ... say it ain't so !!!

Frontman
12-07-2010, 06:24 PM
Jesus, this again. Don't give the players **** for getting what the industry decides they're worth. If you're pissed about the amount of money the players make, send an email to MLB.

Agreed. Let's not drag jealousy of the fans into it. Any professional athlete wants to make the money that his counterparts are making. If Paul feels he's worth more; its his right to ask for more.

Thome25
12-07-2010, 06:24 PM
:rolleyes:

Poor Konerko, how is he going to feed his family on 13 Million per year.

If he truly wants to win and knows that him taking a little less money will help the team sign those pieces then he will do it.

I agree. There is already two players (Dunn and AJ) who back-loaded their contracts because they wanted to be teammates with PK.

If PK doesn't sign because all he wanted was a couple mil more per season, then he will be the villian in this situation in my opinion.

Hmmm let's see, a couple mil less in a contract that would still be more than fair at 12.5-13mil per and play for a winning team? or him and his agent squabble with the Sox over getting a couple million more per season?

Which would be better? He is already a multi-millionaire. Does he really need to nickle and dime at this point? Especially given the circumstances with Dunn and AJ?

Over By There
12-07-2010, 06:26 PM
He signed for a hometown discount, and left money on the table. 5 years later were asking for him to sign for less again.

Let me know if your still not sure what I'm talking about.

I find its perfectly fair for some one to feel leaving money on the table once is fine but a 2nd time is not fair, and the sox would be taking advantage of his generosity.

I have no idea who you are arguing with. First of all, I really don't see anyone unrealistically "asking" Konerko to take a hometown discount. But second, I wouldn't begrudge anyone for doing so since it was Konerko himself that said he'd take less money to play somewhere where he could avoid "finishing second every year," and arguably the Sox are the most competitive team seeking his services. Overall, I feel (and I think that most people in this thread agree) that the Sox have made a fair offer and if he wants more dough, we will wish him the best.

Rocky Soprano
12-07-2010, 06:27 PM
Jesus, this again. Don't give the players **** for getting what the industry decides they're worth. If you're pissed about the amount of money the players make, send an email to MLB.

Who's pissed, besides you?
IF the Sox want to pay him 100 Million per year, that's not my problem.

But to bitch that he took "less" money in 05 and not its not fair for him to take 2 Million less is stupid.

Boondock Saint
12-07-2010, 06:28 PM
I agree. There is already two players (Dunn and AJ) who back-loaded their contracts because they wanted to be teammates with PK.

If PK doesn't sign because all he wanted was a couple mil more per season, then he will be the villian in this situation in my opinion.

Hmmm let's see, a couple mil less in a contract that would still be more than fair at 12.5-13mil per and play for a winning team? or him and his agent squabble with the Sox over getting a couple million more per season?

Which would be better? He is already a multi-millionaire. Does he really need to nickle and dime at this point? Especially given the circumstances with Dunn and AJ?

Under this logic, every player who's ever made more than $10m should sign for the league minimum for the rest of their career to play for a winner or stay at home because they don't need it anymore, and asking for anything more than that is greedy.

DirtySox
12-07-2010, 06:28 PM
Seems I missed plenty over the last few hours.

I really hope PK holds firm. The team is better off with Plan B, reliever money, and draft picks.

Rocky Soprano
12-07-2010, 06:28 PM
Agreed. Let's not drag jealousy of the fans into it. Any professional athlete wants to make the money that his counterparts are making. If Paul feels he's worth more; its his right to ask for more.

Who is jealous?
He can ask for the moon if he wants to, the Sox don't have to give it to him.

The Sox want to win and are spending money, doesn't mean they have to be stupid with the money and giving PK 15 Million would be just that.

Boondock Saint
12-07-2010, 06:31 PM
Who's pissed, besides you?
IF the Sox want to pay him 100 Million per year, that's not my problem.

But to bitch that he took "less" money in 05 and not its not fair for him to take 2 Million less is stupid.

You certainly seem to have a problem with Konerko (allegedly) wanting more than what the Sox are offering. Otherwise you wouldn't have made a sarcastic comment about poor Konerko being unable to feed his kids.

Thome25
12-07-2010, 06:33 PM
Under this logic, every player who's ever made more than $10m should sign for the league minimum for the rest of their career to play for a winner or stay at home because they don't need it anymore, and asking for anything more than that is greedy.

I never said that. You are going to the extreme here buddy. I'm painting a picture with a much broader brush than that. You're making this into a black and white scenario. There's a ton of grey area here.

I wasn't saying Paulie or any player for that matter should take the league minimum. But, 12.5 or 13 million is more than fair for a 35-year-old Paul Konerko.

Boondock Saint
12-07-2010, 06:37 PM
I never said that. You are going to the extreme here buddy. I'm painting a picture with a much braoder brush than that. You're making this into a black and white scenario. There's a ton of grey area here.

I wan't saying Paulie or any player should take the league minimum. But, 12.5 or 13 million is more than fair for a 35-year-old Paul Konerko.

It's what he and his agent consider to be fair market value. The fact that Konerko doesn't need the money doesn't factor into the equation. Nor does the fact that Dunn and A.J. backloaded their deals in hopes of getting Konerko back on board, for that matter.

BadBobbyJenks
12-07-2010, 06:38 PM
Under this logic, every player who's ever made more than $10m should sign for the league minimum for the rest of their career to play for a winner or stay at home because they don't need it anymore, and asking for anything more than that is greedy.

Um no, what he is saying once you have that much money how important is getting 15 million compared to 13 million.

Frontman
12-07-2010, 06:39 PM
Who is jealous?
He can ask for the moon if he wants to, the Sox don't have to give it to him.

The Sox want to win and are spending money, doesn't mean they have to be stupid with the money and giving PK 15 Million would be just that.

It's the "how can he afford to feed his family on 13 mil" that smacks of jealousy. "Honest" and "real" people play that card, who feel that athletes shouldn't be paid what they are paid. If Paul asks for 15, that's his right. If he gets 15, that's the Sox (or whichever team's) right to do.

But to do the "boo hoo, how will he ever feed his family" sarcasm IS jealousy. At least in my book. There's no reason for fans to make Paul into a 'bad guy' because he has a number he wants.

Bobby Thigpen
12-07-2010, 06:41 PM
If anything, this thread speaks well to humanity's ever shorter growing attention span and patience.

Thome25
12-07-2010, 06:41 PM
It's what he and his agent consider to be fair market value. The fact that Konerko doesn't need the money doesn't factor into the equation. Nor does the fact that Dunn and A.J. backloaded their deals in hopes of getting Konerko back on board, for that matter.

Which to me, should factor into the decision for any decent, honorable human being. (I am NOT saying that PK is greedy, or dishonorable, or is not decent.)

However, if these things do not factor into his decision, and he walks for what amounts to 2 million more per season (especially because he is already a millionare many times over.) then in my opinion, it paints him and his agent in a bad light.

Just my opinion. Take it FWIW. You don't have to agree with it but, please don't put words in my mouth (or on my keyboard even :D:) that I didn't intend to imply.

Frontman
12-07-2010, 06:43 PM
If anything, this thread speaks well to humanity's ever shorter growing attention span and patience.

We would be fine if the Blackhawks were playing tonight.....

Noneck
12-07-2010, 06:44 PM
Um no, what he is saying once you have that much money how important is getting 15 million compared to 13 million.

Then conversely whats the difference between 13m and 15m when you have a club worth a 1/2 billion.

Us schnooks will never understand this big money stuff and shouldn't try to.

Thome25
12-07-2010, 06:45 PM
Um no, what he is saying once you have that much money how important is getting 15 million compared to 13 million.

That's it in a nutshell.....glad someone understands.

soltrain21
12-07-2010, 06:46 PM
Then conversely whats the difference between 13m and 15m when you have a club worth a 1/2 billion.

Us schnooks will never understand this big money stuff and shouldn't try to.

http://www.writingthepine.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/Scrooge-in-gold-coins.png
Wrong. This is a photo of me in the documentary "Richer Than You." It aired on Toon Disney.

XplodingScorbord
12-07-2010, 06:46 PM
Then conversely whats the difference between 13m and 15m when you have a club worth a 1/2 billion.

Us schnooks will never understand this big money stuff and shouldn't try to.

"We" schnooks. :tongue:

whitem0nkey
12-07-2010, 06:51 PM
Were all sox fans here, we feel the sox offered him a fair deal, all we can do is hope he agrees with the sox terms.

If PK takes the $ and does not sign with us no need to be bitter, we had great years together, and he brought us a ring.

If PK is my son ill tell him get paid this will be your last Free agency you'll get paid well. Your next deal could be only 2M per.

cws05champ
12-07-2010, 06:52 PM
I think KW wants a decision now because he understands that if Cliff Lee signs with the Yankees soon, the Rangers will turn their attention to Konerko and have some money to spend.
I don't think the sox want to get into a bidding war for Konerko when there realistically only a few places that a) Want him b) Have the money to spend c) He wants to go.

IMO $13M/per is more than fair, but that's just me. If anything 3 yrs may be too much...

Thome25
12-07-2010, 06:53 PM
15 million per for a 35-year-old first baseman is too much. If that is the asking price then, I hope then the Sox walk away from the table.

At this point in his career, Paulie is closer to a decline than he is to consistently putting up numbers like he did last year.

IMO If they paid PK his asking price, then in the 3rd year of the deal (a 3-year deal is what has been speculated.) they would be essentially stuck with two DH's in 2013. One who makes 16.5mil (Dunn) and one who makes 15mil (PK). Not a good situation for the Sox IMHO.

BringHomeDaBacon
12-07-2010, 06:57 PM
The last time I checked, JR is also not struggling to feed his family. Why should Paulie sacrifice even $1 so JR can leave a slightly bigger estate in a few years? The point is, that nobody owes anybody anything that's not already in a contract. That doesn't make anybody good or bad it's just business.

Noneck
12-07-2010, 06:59 PM
"We" schnooks. :tongue:

If you want to start correcting my grammar, you had better quit your day job.

Brian26
12-07-2010, 07:01 PM
Paula Farris just said some stuff that the Sox are ready to go on without Paulie ... YUCK ... say it ain't so !!!

Do people still watch the local sportscasts anymore with the advent of mlb network and twitter? Paula Farris doesn't have her finger on the pulse of the winter meetings anymore than Brant Miller or Ginger Zee.

A. Cavatica
12-07-2010, 07:04 PM
Both sides are posturing, trying to get public opinion on their side. I'm sure JR will be offered the chance to match any firm offer Konerko has from another team; Landis would be crazy not to offer.

Konerko is worth less than Dunn because he's older and a less productive hitter. And his endorsement income is going to be higher in Chicago than anywhere else, because he's not a big name. I think 3/39 is about right, but I could see it going to 3/40 or 41.

JermaineDye05
12-07-2010, 07:09 PM
FWIW

Kenny essentially did the same thing with AJ last week.

He said that the talks would be on a hold for the sake of Pauly.

Then later that night, AJ was signed.

Also, remember that today is Tuesday. It's not the new Wednesday, Thursday. :tongue:

Taliesinrk
12-07-2010, 07:23 PM
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/Texas-Rangers-may-trade-Michael-Young-to-keep-Cliff-Lee-120710

Thinking outside the box here (maybe too far?), but the more I think about "Plan B", the more I feel like the available options wouldn't be able to replace PK's offense. The obvious other position that would be available to upgrade (at least offensively) would be 3B. I wonder what Texas is asking for Young (and how much money they'd throw in), or how much Adrian Beltre is going to get. Both, in addition to an Adam LaRoche-type, would provide a decent alternative to a PK-Morel duo.

KMcMahon817
12-07-2010, 07:24 PM
Seems I missed plenty over the last few hours.

I really hope PK holds firm. The team is better off with Plan B, reliever money, and draft picks.

Relievers still need to come from somewhere. They're not going to all be SOX farmhands, even if they resign Paulie.

I'm not sold on DLee at all. But I guess I would take LaRoche (DLee if LaRoche is gone) AND two quality bullpen guys over Paulie. But, again, they still need (not want, but need) some major relief help whether Paulie signs or not.

In other words, if Paulie signs, we still have another 20 million being added to Payroll. If not, somewhere around 15 (assuming Lacroche or DLee is signed).

There is just no way KW goes into the season with a "2007-esk" bullpen.

KMcMahon817
12-07-2010, 07:27 PM
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/Texas-Rangers-may-trade-Michael-Young-to-keep-Cliff-Lee-120710

Thinking outside the box here (maybe too far?), but the more I think about "Plan B", the more I feel like the available options wouldn't be able to replace PK's offense. The obvious other position that would be available to upgrade (at least offensively) would be 3B. I wonder what Texas is asking for Young (and how much money they'd throw in), or how much Adrian Beltre is going to get. Both, in addition to an Adam LaRoche-type, would provide a decent alternative to a PK-Morel duo.

That would rival the Yanks line-up on paper.

Pierre LF
Beckham 2B
Rios CF
Dunn DH
LaRoche 1B
Beltre/Young 3B
Quentin RF
AJ C
Alexei SS

Wow...that would be impressive. But there's no way that'll happen.

Hitmen77
12-07-2010, 07:29 PM
If they guaranteed 3 years at $39, and he turned it down, I don't blame the Sox for moving on.

I agree. As long as the Sox follow up with a legitimate "Plan B", I don't blame KW for moving on if that's not enough.

I'm also not vilifying PK here. This is a business and from what is reported, both sides are playing this fair and square. If he wants to squeeze the highest pay possible out of some team, that's his right. Personally though, one could argue that you can't put a price on finishing out your career with your long-time team where you're one of the most popular players in recent memory. It's not like the Sox offer is "screwing him" and he'll have to consider if it's worth ending his reign on the South Side on a sour note just to get the max $$$ possible. Like I said....he has every right to choose the max $$$ and he's not a bad person for doing so, but I'm just saying the max $$$ might not be everything.

slavko
12-07-2010, 07:30 PM
They negotiate, we panic. Life goes on. Not worth it? None of them are worth it and I know longtime fans who won't go to a game because of what the players make in relation to us (or is it we?) stiffs.

Pour yourselves a cold one, eat a pretzel, kiss your spouse. Calm down.

keloms
12-07-2010, 07:38 PM
Do people still watch the local sportscasts anymore with the advent of mlb network and twitter? Paula Farris doesn't have her finger on the pulse of the winter meetings anymore than Brant Miller or Ginger Zee.

Ginger had (still has?) a Sox connection so you never know what scoops she may have. ;)

Twitter is a different animal as every one, friends, neighbors, dog walkers, etc, are on there, but, local sports casters do have a lot of connections over MLB Network from covering the players on a daily basis. Just take last week, during the AJ talk, Paula spoke to AJ, and had an actual phone interview with him to play on air, as opposed to other outlets, including MLB Network, quoting "sources" for that same info.

Over By There
12-07-2010, 07:39 PM
New Merkin article (http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20101207&content_id=16274424&vkey=news_cws&c_id=cws&partnerId=rss_cws) sounds pretty downbeat. I like KW's comments, very fair.

"All I can say is that we have meetings with other guys' representatives tonight and it's with the mindset to try and get a deal done," Williams said.

soltrain21
12-07-2010, 07:43 PM
New Merkin article (http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20101207&content_id=16274424&vkey=news_cws&c_id=cws&partnerId=rss_cws) sounds pretty downbeat. I like KW's comments, very fair.


Cmon, Paulie. Call him right before the meetings and say yes to his contract!

maAyfcO-X3k

Frater Perdurabo
12-07-2010, 07:50 PM
The Dallas Morning news is speculating that the Yankees are offering a seventh year to Cliff Lee. As a result, the writer speculates Lee will sign with the Yankees, the Rangers will trade for Zack Greinke and then try to sign either Konerko or Crawford.

If I were KW, I would sign Crawford, move Quentin to DH, and have Dunn play first.

Pierre - Crawford - Rios - Dunn - Quentin - AJ - Alexei - Beckham - Morel is an excellent lineup that can hurt opposing teams in many ways.

JermaineDye05
12-07-2010, 07:51 PM
The Dallas Morning news is speculating that the Yankees are offering a seventh year to Cliff Lee. As a result, the writer speculates Lee will sign with the Yankees, the Rangers will trade for Zack Greinke and then try to sign either Konerko or Crawford.

If I were KW, I would sign Crawford, move Quentin to DH, and have Dunn play first.

Pierre - Crawford - Rios - Dunn - Quentin - AJ - Alexei - Beckham - Morel is an excellent lineup that can hurt opposing teams in many ways.

Crawford is going one of three places:

Anaheim
Boston
New York

whitem0nkey
12-07-2010, 07:53 PM
Both sides are posturing, trying to get public opinion on their side. I'm sure JR will be offered the chance to match any firm offer Konerko has from another team; Landis would be crazy not to offer.

Konerko is worth less than Dunn because he's older and a less productive hitter. And his endorsement income is going to be higher in Chicago than anywhere else, because he's not a big name. I think 3/39 is about right, but I could see it going to 3/40 or 41.

I agree with the first part of the sentence. but public opninon is not what they are trying to get. PK wants to get as much as he can while playing for a team he would like, and the Sox are trying to get a 1B for the most reasonable price that gives them good production.

Quentin08
12-07-2010, 07:54 PM
Posted 3 minutes ago:

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/2732655-419/williams-konerko-sox-tuesday-source.html

DirtySox
12-07-2010, 07:54 PM
Crawford is going one of three places:

Anaheim
Boston
New York

Without question.

Noneck
12-07-2010, 07:56 PM
If I were KW, I would sign Crawford, move Quentin to DH, and have Dunn play first.



If the Sox are saying they only have enough money for Paul, how are they going to get the money that will be needed for Crawford?

Frater Perdurabo
12-07-2010, 08:00 PM
If the Sox are saying they only have enough money for Paul, how are they going to get the money that will be needed for Crawford?

I'm only giving my opinion of what they should do.

I'd spend more money to get Crawford than what I would spend to retain Konerko. Crawford is a better all-around player, period.

gr8mexico
12-07-2010, 08:00 PM
That would rival the Yanks line-up on paper.

Pierre LF
Beckham 2B
Rios CF
Dunn DH
LaRoche 1B
Beltre/Young 3B
Quentin RF
AJ C
Alexei SS

Wow...that would be impressive. But there's no way that'll happen.
That lineup looks real good but instead of Laroche the Sox can get D.Lee to play 1B.

JermaineDye05
12-07-2010, 08:02 PM
If the Sox are saying they only have enough money for Paul, how are they going to get the money that will be needed for Crawford?

http://www.inoutstar.com/images/Heath-Ledger-Was-Changed-by-Playing-The-Joker-16437.jpg

beasly213
12-07-2010, 08:08 PM
Posted 3 minutes ago:

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/2732655-419/williams-konerko-sox-tuesday-source.html

Oh snap...

whitem0nkey
12-07-2010, 08:12 PM
Oh snap...

the older JR gets the more he seems to be willing to spend his money. after all we cant take it with us after we die.

all of us sox fans should be happy that our owner is trying to reasonably and aggressively spend to win another one.

Bucky F. Dent
12-07-2010, 08:26 PM
Posted 3 minutes ago:

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/2732655-419/williams-konerko-sox-tuesday-source.html


It's his money and the more he wants to spend of it on players the happier I am , but I hope that Kenny doesn't end up having to put the bullpen together with duct tape and baling twine because Jerry blew out the budget over paying for Paulie.

I love Paulie, and would love to see him back on the southside, but not at any price.

Frontman
12-07-2010, 08:26 PM
the older JR gets the more he seems to be willing to spend his money. after all we cant take it with us after we die.

all of us sox fans should be happy that our owner is trying to reasonably and aggressively spend to win another one.

Jerry/Kenny

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51KMQZ9NRVL._SL500_AA300_.jpg


Probably the first (and only) time I'll make a Larry the Cable Guy ref.

TheVulture
12-07-2010, 08:30 PM
15 million per for a 35-year-old first baseman is too much.


By that rationale, the Sox would be better off paying a 28 year old first basemen $15 million. I'm sure if Brian Anderson can play CF and pitch he could easily handle first base. Sign him up Kenny.

And that contract the Giants gave to Bonds in 2002? Horrible idea - he was a 37 year old LFer.

Lyle Mouton
12-07-2010, 08:41 PM
By that rationale, the Sox would be better off paying a 28 year old first basemen $15 million. I'm sure if Brian Anderson can play CF and pitch he could easily handle first base. Sign him up Kenny.

And that contract the Giants gave to Bonds in 2002? Horrible idea - he was a 37 year old LFer.
What in the blue hell are you talking about?

soxnut1018
12-07-2010, 08:42 PM
By that rationale, the Sox would be better off paying a 28 year old first basemen $15 million. I'm sure if Brian Anderson can play CF and pitch he could easily handle first base. Sign him up Kenny.

And that contract the Giants gave to Bonds in 2002? Horrible idea - he was a 37 year old LFer.

I doubt Konerko will have the same "anti-aging boost" that Bonds had. In the post steroid era age matters again and I really don't think that Konerko will be worth 15 mil for the length of his contract.

ChiSoxGal85
12-07-2010, 08:49 PM
Kenny is on MLB Network hot stove right now.

getonbckthr
12-07-2010, 08:50 PM
Why am I finding myself wanting to see what will happen if Konerko takes the offer from Texas or Baltimore? Going to Arizona would be a going home thing and justifiable however Texas and Baltimore would be cash related to which I could see JR and KW being so aggravated that they explode the checkbook. Remember the decision to get Dunn and AJ was an all-in move. Maybe its my imagination but picture KW and JR in a hotel room after Paulie leaves for more money and JR tells Kenny "Go get Fielder and Crawford! I don't care that Carl wants 22 million per for 7 years!"

soltrain21
12-07-2010, 08:52 PM
Why am I finding myself wanting to see what will happen if Konerko takes the offer from Texas or Baltimore? Going to Arizona would be a going home thing and justifiable however Texas and Baltimore would be cash related to which I could see JR and KW being so aggravated that they explode the checkbook. Remember the decision to get Dunn and AJ was an all-in move. Maybe its my imagination but picture KW and JR in a hotel room after Paulie leaves for more money and JR tells Kenny "Go get Fielder and Crawford! I don't care that Carl wants 22 million per for 7 years!"

I don't think Texas would be a money move. You know, they were sort of in the World Series last year.

getonbckthr
12-07-2010, 08:54 PM
I don't think Texas would be a money move. You know, they were sort of in the World Series last year.
If they give him 3/45 or 4/60 and our best was 3/39 yes I consider that a money move.

soltrain21
12-07-2010, 08:57 PM
If they give him 3/45 or 4/60 and our best was 3/39 yes I consider that a money move.

I would find it hard to be mad at him for taking that type of money for a good team.

Brian26
12-07-2010, 09:00 PM
It's his money and the more he wants to spend of it on players the happier I am , but I hope that Kenny doesn't end up having to put the bullpen together with duct tape and baling twine because Jerry blew out the budget over paying for Paulie.

At the same time, when Kenny's given some extra coin to play with the bullpen, he seems to make bad choices (Linebrink, Koch extension after the Fouke trade). The bullpen is invariably a crap shoot anyway. We seem to have the main spots secure with Thornton, Sale and Santos. Sign a couple of guys cheap and see what sticks.

Brian26
12-07-2010, 09:02 PM
I would find it hard to be mad at him for taking that type of money for a good team.

Right. If he takes that to go play in Seattle, then start rioting.

WhiteSox5187
12-07-2010, 09:06 PM
At the same time, when Kenny's given some extra coin to play with the bullpen, he seems to make bad choices (Linebrink, Koch extension after the Fouke trade). The bullpen is invariably a crap shoot anyway. We seem to have the main spots secure with Thornton, Sale and Santos. Sign a couple of guys cheap and see what sticks.

Well, we did that in '07 and that was an unmitigated disaster. The Linebrink (and I guess you could argue the Foulke trade as well) certainly seemed good on paper. I don't remember the Foulke trade (as I wasn't paying a lot of attention to baseball back then) but following the '07 season we needed bullpen help and everyone knew we would have to overpay for it and that's what we did with Linebrink and for awhile, it worked. We had a lock down bullpen for the first half of '08 and then Linebrink got hurt and he hasn't been the same since.

JermaineDye05
12-07-2010, 09:19 PM
116 people viewing WTS with pretty much nothing going on except for negotiations. I can only imagine what will happen once Pauly signs somewhere.

chisoxlove
12-07-2010, 09:38 PM
[QUOTE=KMcMahon817;2659475]
I'm not sold on DLee at all. But I guess I would take LaRoche (DLee if LaRoche is gone) AND two quality bullpen guys over Paulie. But, again, they still need (not want, but need) some major relief help whether Paulie signs or not.

QUOTE]


What is DLee going to command on the open market...2/18, 3/24? Is he even a feasible alternative financially?

I think DLee + Serious Bullpen > Konerko

DirtySox
12-07-2010, 09:42 PM
[QUOTE=KMcMahon817;2659475]
I'm not sold on DLee at all. But I guess I would take LaRoche (DLee if LaRoche is gone) AND two quality bullpen guys over Paulie. But, again, they still need (not want, but need) some major relief help whether Paulie signs or not.

QUOTE]


What is DLee going to command on the open market...2/18, 3/24? Is he even a feasible alternative financially?

I think DLee + Serious Bullpen > Konerko

I think he would cost a bit less than Berkman. Probably around 6 to 8 million per year.

CAREY33
12-07-2010, 09:50 PM
Spending money on the bullpen is a waste of resources. As said earlier the Sox have a nice bullpen foundation with Thornthon, Sale, and Santos. Middle relievers are a crapshoot so ust let Coop pick the minimum salary relievers that he likes the best.

doublem23
12-07-2010, 09:54 PM
Spending money on the bullpen is a waste of resources. As said earlier the Sox have a nice bullpen foundation with Thornthon, Sale, and Santos. Middle relievers are a crapshoot so ust let Coop pick the minimum salary relievers that he likes the best.

I'm pretty sure the plan is for Sale not to be in the bullpen this year.

guillensdisciple
12-07-2010, 09:56 PM
If he doesn't like that kind of money, all I can say is **** it and lets move on.

CAREY33
12-07-2010, 09:57 PM
I'm pretty sure the plan is for Sale not to be in the bullpen this year.

I would leave him in the bullpen. Most scouts believe he is better suited to pitch out of the bullpen.

WhiteSox5187
12-07-2010, 10:02 PM
I would leave him in the bullpen. Most scouts believe he is better suited to pitch out of the bullpen.

I think where Sale is depends on who else we sign for our bullpen.

Domeshot17
12-07-2010, 10:16 PM
I would leave him in the bullpen. Most scouts believe he is better suited to pitch out of the bullpen.

I haven't read one scouting report projecting him as a long term reliever. The only fear there was his mechanics.

I don't put him in the bullpen at all. Look at what happened to Paplebon. He was projected as a great SP, and the timing was never right for him to not close. If Sale turns into that kind of closer awesome, but I still think he has more upside than closing.

DirtySox
12-07-2010, 10:19 PM
I haven't read one scouting report projecting him as a long term reliever. The only fear there was his mechanics.

I don't put him in the bullpen at all. Look at what happened to Paplebon. He was projected as a great SP, and the timing was never right for him to not close. If Sale turns into that kind of closer awesome, but I still think he has more upside than closing.

Same. I think he has number 2 potential, with possible TOR upside. He also needs to be a fallback option considering there is absolutely no worthy SP prospects in the minors ready to fill in the rotation if necessary.

Unfortunately his name has been uttered a few times both by Kenny and Ozzie at the winter meetings when talking the closer role.

thomas35forever
12-07-2010, 10:28 PM
All I can say is wow, this thread has gotten even more entertaining.

TheOldRoman
12-07-2010, 10:34 PM
Seems I missed plenty over the last few hours.

I really hope PK holds firm. The team is better off with Plan B, reliever money, and draft picks.I agree, but I am fearful they wait too long and Lee and LaRoche get signed. Instead of giving Konerko the extra $2 mil a year I think KW would draw a line in the sand and say "Fine, we're going with Viciedo."

CAREY33
12-07-2010, 10:39 PM
I haven't read one scouting report projecting him as a long term reliever. The only fear there was his mechanics.

I don't put him in the bullpen at all. Look at what happened to Paplebon. He was projected as a great SP, and the timing was never right for him to not close. If Sale turns into that kind of closer awesome, but I still think he has more upside than closing.


For what it's worth, by ESPN's Keith Law :

Chicago White Sox (http://espn.go.com/mlb/team/_/name/chw/chicago-white-sox)

http://a.espncdn.com/i/teamlogos/mlb/lrg/trans/chw.gif

The White Sox just don't spend in the draft; it's an ownership issue, not on the scouting staff, but the resulting draft classes always lack upside as a result. They took two guys from my top 100, both arm strength guys, Chris Sale (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=30948) and Jacob Petricka (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/draft/player/_/id/19005/jacob-petricka). Sale's in the majors now as a reliever, and most scouts I've polled agree with my take that his future is in the 'pen. Petricka had one of the best pure fastballs in this draft and has a chance to start if the curveball becomes more consistent as opposed to just flashing solid-average. They didn't spend more than $400,000 on any other picks.

CAREY33
12-07-2010, 10:42 PM
My point was that the amount of money the Sox have available to spend on the bullpen shouldn't be a consideration in determinig what to offer Konerko or other free agents. It's foolish to spend big money on middle relievers.

Lyle Mouton
12-07-2010, 10:43 PM
For what it's worth, by ESPN's Keith Law :

Chicago White Sox (http://espn.go.com/mlb/team/_/name/chw/chicago-white-sox)

http://a.espncdn.com/i/teamlogos/mlb/lrg/trans/chw.gif

The White Sox just don't spend in the draft; it's an ownership issue, not on the scouting staff, but the resulting draft classes always lack upside as a result. They took two guys from my top 100, both arm strength guys, Chris Sale (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=30948) and Jacob Petricka (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/draft/player/_/id/19005/jacob-petricka). Sale's in the majors now as a reliever, and most scouts I've polled agree with my take that his future is in the 'pen. Petricka had one of the best pure fastballs in this draft and has a chance to start if the curveball becomes more consistent as opposed to just flashing solid-average. They didn't spend more than $400,000 on any other picks.
So, one guy. Okay.

DirtySox
12-07-2010, 10:43 PM
For what it's worth, by ESPN's Keith Law

Good luck with this.

I would like to point out before the KL bashing, that he had him ranked lower than every other scouting publication even before the Sox drafted him.

Either way, Keith Law was in the minority in how low he ranked Sale, as well as his opinion on his future role. Almost all other sources noted he could thrive as either as a starter or a reliever.

Rockabilly
12-07-2010, 10:45 PM
With Texas going after Beltre, with the Young trade almost done, would that mean they won't be going after PK?

JermaineDye05
12-07-2010, 10:49 PM
With Texas going after Beltre, with the Young trade almost done, would that mean they won't be going after PK?

I don't think so. They still have an opening at 1B. All of this depends on where Lee goes IMO.

The problem is that Lee probably won't be signing this week.

So the question is, does PK really want to wait until that big domino falls to sign?

DirtySox
12-07-2010, 10:49 PM
With Texas going after Beltre, with the Young trade almost done, would that mean they won't be going after PK?

Still have a spot open at 1B unless they think Moreland is the long term answer.

CAREY33
12-07-2010, 10:54 PM
So, one guy. Okay.

Nah bro, it said he polled a bunch of scouts who have that feeling about Sale.

slavko
12-07-2010, 11:02 PM
My point was that the amount of money the Sox have available to spend on the bullpen shouldn't be a consideration in determinig what to offer Konerko or other free agents. It's foolish to spend big money on middle relievers.


God knows we've proven that. But, that's what established ones are going for.

Pablo_Honey
12-07-2010, 11:06 PM
Nah bro, it said he polled a bunch of scouts who have that feeling about Sale.
Makese sense. A lot of people were worried about his arm action. I don't think there was much question about his stuff. Having said that, Sale could pull off a Kerry Wood if his arm can't hold up. So until he shows durability problems, we should utilize him in the rotation.

thomas35forever
12-08-2010, 01:06 AM
Shepkowski on The Score's website sent me this article he wrote that is to be published tomorrow:

Paul Konerkoís White Sox legacy will include the magic of 2005, a solid glove at first base, and leadership in the clubhouse that is very difficult to find. Despite the countless positives that Konerko evokes on the South Side, baseball history tells us its time for Kenny Williams and the White Sox to move on.

Konerko, a 14 year MLB veteran, will be 35 on opening day. Still young enough to be somewhat productive, sure, but far from the young buck he once was.

BaseballReference.com does an excellent job in compiling nearly every baseball statistic you can imagine. In doing so, they allow you to see every player in MLB historyís closest statistical comparisonís through all of baseball history.

The ten Paul Konerkoís career ranks closest on par with:

1. Joe Adcock, 2. Tino Martinez, 3. Derrek Lee, 4. Norm Cash, 5. Rocky Calavito, 6. Kent Hrbek, 7. Frank Howard, 8. Greg Luzinski, 9. Gil Hodges, 10. Carlos Lee.

It appears Konerkoís asking price is right around $45 million over 3 seasons. Before you cite his value in the clubhouse you must look at what his closest counterparts did at this stage of their careers before overpaying for the four-time all-star.

The ten players listed along with Konerko have combined to play 14 seasons between the ages of 35 and 37.

Joe Adcock played three seasons between 35 and 37, as did Tino Martinez, Norm Cash, and Gil Hodges. Frank Howard played through the age of 36 while Rocky Calavito, Kent Hrbek, and Greg Luzinski all retired before starting a season at the age of 35. Derrek and Carlos Lee will both join Konerko in being 35 this coming opening day.

In the 14 seasons these ten players have combined to play between the ages of 35 and 37, the average numbers fall well short of impressive.

An average season for the four players works out to look as follows: .254 batting average, .340 on-base percentage, 16.7 home runs, 54.8 RBI, and an OPS of .778.

Sure, thatís plenty respectable for a player on the back-nine of their baseball career but worthy of committing 45 million dollars to over the next three seasons? Not a snowballs chance in Hell.

Each of the four players who played each year between 35 and 37 did have at least one very strong campaign during that stretch. Joe Adcock hit .268 with 21 HR and 64 RBI in 1964, Tino Martinez hit .262 with 23 HR with the 2004 Devil Rays. Furthermore, Norm Cash hit .283 with 32 blasts in 1971 and Gild Hodges hit .276 with 25 HR and 80 RBI in 1959.

However, none of the players hit above .265 in consecutive seasons and 9 of the 14 researched seasons finished with the player batting under .260 and only Cash in 1971 surpassed the 30 home run mark.

Backed by the numbers, you canít help but credit Kenny Williams decision to move on from the Paul Konerko era at first base.

Thanks for the memories and good luck wherever you end up, Paulie. Youíll be remembered in South Side lore for years to come but your asking price is simply too high and its time for the White Sox to move in another direction.

A tip of the cap is owed to Kenny Williams for making the difficult yet right baseball decision.

DirtySox
12-08-2010, 01:08 AM
Shepkowski on The Score's website sent me this article he wrote that is to be published tomorrow:

So, does he know something we don't? I thought the door was still open.

JermaineDye05
12-08-2010, 01:12 AM
I think we have to hear it straight from Kenny first. Sounds like this guy made the same assumption that everyone else did when they heard that Kenny was looking at the other options.

I'm sure the door hasn't been slammed on Pauly's face.

The only way it's closed is if the Sox have a deal in place for another player or if Pauly has agreed to terms with another team.

KMcMahon817
12-08-2010, 01:41 AM
For what it's worth, by ESPN's Keith Law :

Chicago White Sox (http://espn.go.com/mlb/team/_/name/chw/chicago-white-sox)

http://a.espncdn.com/i/teamlogos/mlb/lrg/trans/chw.gif

The White Sox just don't spend in the draft; it's an ownership issue, not on the scouting staff, but the resulting draft classes always lack upside as a result. They took two guys from my top 100, both arm strength guys, Chris Sale (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=30948) and Jacob Petricka (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/draft/player/_/id/19005/jacob-petricka). Sale's in the majors now as a reliever, and most scouts I've polled agree with my take that his future is in the 'pen. Petricka had one of the best pure fastballs in this draft and has a chance to start if the curveball becomes more consistent as opposed to just flashing solid-average. They didn't spend more than $400,000 on any other picks.

I am curious to know how many of Chris Sale's starts Law has seen. I wouldn't be surprised if he's seen a ton, but it seems awfully negative from what I've seen of Sale. He obviously isn't going to have an era under 2 as a starter, but I sure wouldn't be surprised to see it under 4. I personally think Sale is filthy. He needs to be in the rotation at some point next season.

JermaineDye05
12-08-2010, 02:37 AM
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=5897501

According to Doug Padilla Kenny said that

"Wednesday at five O'Clock we'll probably have a player to announce for you."

As Padilla states, it may be Konerko, it may be a reliever.

Interesting.

Lillian
12-08-2010, 06:23 AM
Shepkowski on The Score's website sent me this article he wrote that is to be published tomorrow:

Very interesting analysis. It's hard to argue that Konerko will be an exception to the rule, especially when you consider that his career numbers haven't even been as consistent as those of most of the players, to whom he was compared.

Perhaps some of us have forgotten the several consecutive seasons, during which he was only good for either the first, or the second half, and was terrible the other half.

I'd love to have him back, but not for that kind of money.

Regarding Derrek Lee, I don't see why he should be expected to not have at least as good of a year as he had last season. His thumb injury should be behind him, now that he has had successful surgery. Nevertheless, I'd take his season totals from last year, for the difference in money that he will likely demand.

He's also a leader and good club house guy. His defense is better, and he can run. For me, it's a "no-brainer".

gobears1987
12-08-2010, 06:52 AM
Regarding Derrek Lee, I don't see why he should be expected to not have at least as good of a year as he had last season. His thumb injury should be behind him, now that he has had successful surgery. Nevertheless, I'd take his season totals from last year, for the difference in money that he will likely demand.

He's also a leader and good club house guy. His defense is better, and he can run. For me, it's a "no-brainer".

Aren't he and Ozzie supposed to be close? I've been to some of the Crosstown games and the two of them always end up talking during batting practice. I know that they were both part of the 2003 Marlins Championship. Lee might like staying in Chicago while playing for a team that has pitchers who won't attack him after they give up 4 runs in an inning.

That being said, I would love Paulie back, but I'll take a cheaper Lee and two draft picks if it makes this team a better contender.

soxinem1
12-08-2010, 07:27 AM
If Carlos Pena can get $10 million for absolutely sucking the last two years, LaRoche should get something at least on par with that, as DLee should. Maybe not $10 million, but a multi-year deal at about $9 million a season easilly.

Saying that, Konerko is not the K machine that LaRoche, DLee, or Pena are, a key element that must be considered since any of these guys would be batting either before or after Adam Dunn in the line up. Having 360 K's combined in back-to-back lineup spots is not ideal.

Yet, other than 2005 and 2010, Konerko has been notorious for trading off solid one half, so-so other half seasons. Being he is now 34 years old, I'm not sure $15 million a year on Konerko is money well-spent.

I hope PK sticks by his previous comments that money is not the key issue. However with Dunn getting the deal he signed I'm sure Paulie wants his payday too, considering this will more than likely be his last major pass through free agency.

beasly213
12-08-2010, 08:20 AM
Mully mentioned this morning Jerry had a history of doing good cop/bad cop negotiations with Bulls players in the past. Where Krause would be the bad Cop and JR would come in on the White Horse and save the day. Might be doing the same thing again with PK...

Goose
12-08-2010, 09:14 AM
Mully mentioned this morning Jerry had a history of doing good cop/bad cop negotiations with Bulls players in the past. Where Krause would be the bad Cop and JR would come in on the White Horse and save the day. Might be doing the same thing again with PK...

Mully also mentioned that alll other teams who had an interest in PK have now all said that they are all resigned to the fact that the Sox will be signing Konerko. If this is true, they must all be hearing the same thing...JR came in and talked with PK last night and the two of them must have come to an agreement.

We'll see at 5:00, I guess.

Rockabilly
12-08-2010, 09:23 AM
Bruce Levine said a few mins ago. That Konerko will agree to a new deal today. Also that other teams were told not to bid anymore.

beasly213
12-08-2010, 09:27 AM
Bruce Levine said a few mins ago. That Konerko will agree to a new deal today. Also that other teams were told not to bid anymore.

I don't trust that Bruce Levine...

JermaineDye05
12-08-2010, 09:33 AM
I don't trust that Bruce Levine...

What beasly said.

spongyfungy
12-08-2010, 09:38 AM
It's still good to hear it.

sox1970
12-08-2010, 09:40 AM
Konerko signed.

http://twitter.com/BNightengale/status/12531843907715072

spawn
12-08-2010, 09:41 AM
Bruce Levine said a few mins ago. That Konerko will agree to a new deal today. Also that other teams were told not to bid anymore.

I don't trust that Bruce Levine...

What beasly said.

I'm just disappointed that Rockabilly copied someone else's post word for word from another forum and didn't acknowledge doing so. Of course, if he is that individual, then I will apologize.

lths06
12-08-2010, 09:42 AM
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/dailypitch/post/2010/12/paul-konerko-has-deal-with-white-sox/1

Over By There
12-08-2010, 09:44 AM
Excellent. Looking forward to moving on to long, speculative threads about the pitching staff. :smile:

Rockabilly
12-08-2010, 09:45 AM
I don't trust that Bruce Levine...

looks like Levine was right for a change

spawn
12-08-2010, 09:49 AM
Now that he has signed, we no longer need a rumor thread. Celebrate or denigrate here (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=124831).