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View Full Version : Sox get Dunn II: The sequel!


spawn
12-04-2010, 08:45 AM
Continue...

gobears1987
12-04-2010, 08:47 AM
http://www.journalgazette.net/article/20101204/SPORTS20/312049945/1094/SPORTS20

I love Dunn even more. I also am glad to see the details of AJ's contract. It looks like he deferred money until next year to help sign PK.

spawn
12-04-2010, 08:49 AM
http://www.journalgazette.net/article/20101204/SPORTS20/312049945/1094/SPORTS20

I love Dunn even more. I also am glad to see the details of AJ's contract. It looks like he deferred money until next year to help sign PK.

All of this is known. KW announced this at the press conference.

gobears1987
12-04-2010, 08:50 AM
All of this is known. KW announced this at the press conference.

I didn't get to see the press conference.

spawn
12-04-2010, 08:52 AM
I didn't get to see the press conference.

It was also brought up in both Konerko and the first Dunn threads. Not trying to be a dick, just saying this money situation is well known.

DonnieDarko
12-04-2010, 10:16 AM
Right. And that's why I think the biggest key to the Sox success going into next season isn't going to be Dunn, Konerko, or Rios. It will hinge on Beckham hitting in the 2 hole. And now witht he Bopper(s) the pressure should be off him this year

While I think that Beckham will be hitting higher in the order (if only because it seems that Morel might be the starting 3B), I doubt that he'll be hitting 2nd. I think that Alexei will take that spot where I think he actually belongs.

asindc
12-04-2010, 10:19 AM
But does the Sox 1 2 punch match the Twins 1 2 punch? I don't think so. It bring the Sox a little bit closer. IMO until we see what the Sox do with the Bullpen, the Twins are far better than the Sox as of right now.Far better? Seriously? Are you taking into account that there are several guys that played for Minny last year that are FAs "as of right now?" According to Cot's (* means that there is an option):

Jim Thome MIN
Orlando Hudson MIN
J.J. Hardy MIN (Arb 3)
Nick Punto MIN * (club option)
Michael Cuddyer MIN * (club option)
Jason Kubel MIN * (club option)
Carl Pavano MIN
Jesse Crain MIN
Randy Flores MIN
Brian Fuentes MIN
Matt Guerrier MIN
Ron Mahay MIN
Jon Rauch MIN
Brian Duensing MIN

Note that the list includes both starting middle IFs, 2/3 of the starting OF, their best SP from last year, and almost their entire bullpen. So you might want to "see what the [Twinkees] do with [their] bullpen [among other things] before declaring them "far better than the Sox as of right now."

gobears1987
12-04-2010, 10:20 AM
Far better? Seriously? Are you taking into account that there are several guys that played for Minny last year that are FAs "as of right now?" According to Cot's (* means that there is an option):

Jim Thome MIN
Orlando Hudson MIN
J.J. Hardy MIN
Nick Punto MIN *
Michael Cuddyer MIN *
Jason Kubel MIN *
Carl Pavano MIN
Jesse Crain MIN
Randy Flores MIN
Brian Fuentes MIN
Matt Guerrier MIN
Ron Mahay MIN
Jon Rauch MIN

Note that the list includes both starting middle IFs, 2/3 of the starting OF, their best SP from last year, and almost their entire bullpen. So you might want to "see what the [Twinkees] do with [their] bullpen [among other things] before declaring them "far better than the Sox as of right now."


If all of those guys are FAs, then they have a lot of holes if some of that crop goes elsewhere.

DonnieDarko
12-04-2010, 10:26 AM
...I find that hard to believe that those Twins are all free agents. If so, WOW. That's just...man, that's a lot of people potentially gone. o_O

kufram
12-04-2010, 10:30 AM
I can find nothing negative in the off season moves so far. KW is a master, at times. If we get Dunn and keep Konerko and AJ at the same time it is more than one could hope for.

A lot of comments about the pen. We need the starters to do what they are capable of. THAT is what will do the most for the pen.

asindc
12-04-2010, 10:47 AM
If all of those guys are FAs, then they have a lot of holes if some of that crop goes elsewhere.

...I find that hard to believe that those Twins are all free agents. If so, WOW. That's just...man, that's a lot of people potentially gone. o_O

I have edited my post to reflect that Brian Duensing is also a FA, and Hardy is actually in his 3rd arb year. The initial list came from Cot's "Potential Free Agents for 2011" list, but the Minnesota 2010 salary page had the additional info. By the way, I fully expect the Twinkees to pick up the options on Cuddyer, Kubel, and even Punto, and to offer arb to Hardy.

DumpJerry
12-04-2010, 11:22 AM
Far better? Seriously? Are you taking into account that there are several guys that played for Minny last year that are FAs "as of right now?" According to Cot's (* means that there is an option):

Jim Thome MIN
Orlando Hudson MIN
J.J. Hardy MIN (Arb 3)
Nick Punto MIN * (club option)
Michael Cuddyer MIN * (club option)
Jason Kubel MIN * (club option)
Carl Pavano MIN
Jesse Crain MIN
Randy Flores MIN
Brian Fuentes MIN
Matt Guerrier MIN
Ron Mahay MIN
Jon Rauch MIN
Brian Duensing MIN

Note that the list includes both starting middle IFs, 2/3 of the starting OF, their best SP from last year, and almost their entire bullpen. So you might want to "see what the [Twinkees] do with [their] bullpen [among other things] before declaring them "far better than the Sox as of right now."


If all of those guys are FAs, then they have a lot of holes if some of that crop goes elsewhere.

...I find that hard to believe that those Twins are all free agents. If so, WOW. That's just...man, that's a lot of people potentially gone. o_O
Are you guys forgetting something? This is the Twins, not a mere mortal baseball team. The Twins' entire 25 man roster could get wiped out in a plane crash and all the AAA and AA replacements would still get them to the Division title.

cards press box
12-04-2010, 11:22 AM
The Twins declined (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/playerbreakingnews.asp?sport=MLB&id=3333&line=309636&spln=1) its option on Punto last month. The Twins have eleven (http://minnesota.twins.mlb.com/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?ymd=20101202&content_id=16244870&vkey=pr_min&fext=.jsp&c_id=min) players signed for 2011, including Cuddyer and Kubel. As the article from the Twins website notes, the Twins have tendered contracts to a number of players on the major league roster like Capps, Hardy, Young, Slowey, Valencia and Liriano. But the Twins do have a lot of free agents.

DonnieDarko
12-04-2010, 11:24 AM
Nick Punto is gone from the Twins?!

YES! THANK THE LORD! :D:

...now if only they could get rid of the rest of the Sox killers on that squad, i.e., the whole team. >_>

FielderJones
12-04-2010, 11:28 AM
The Twins declined (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/playerbreakingnews.asp?sport=MLB&id=3333&line=309636&spln=1) its option on Punto last month.

Nick Punto is gone from the Twins?!

This is surprising. I figured the Twins would put up with Punto's .220 average against the rest of the league just for his .380 average against the White Sox.

gobears1987
12-04-2010, 12:16 PM
Nick Punto is gone from the Twins?!

YES! THANK THE LORD! :D:

...now if only they could get rid of the rest of the Sox killers on that squad, i.e., the whole team. >_>

Damn, I'm going to miss Hawk kissing his ass.

DSpivack
12-04-2010, 12:20 PM
Damn, I'm going to miss Hawk kissing his ass.

Delmon Young is still there.

JermaineDye05
12-04-2010, 01:50 PM
Nick Punto is gone from the Twins?!

YES! THANK THE LORD! :D:

...now if only they could get rid of the rest of the Sox killers on that squad, i.e., the whole team. >_>

He might not be gone from the central just yet. The Indians are looking at him.

DonnieDarko
12-04-2010, 01:56 PM
He might not be gone from the central just yet. The Indians are looking at him.

*twitch**twitch**twitch*

I think I just had a slight stroke...

JermaineDye05
12-04-2010, 03:03 PM
I'm listening to Dunn's interview from yesterday on ESPN 1000.

He described signing with the Sox as being like a kid at Christmas getting that one present they wanted.

Love this guy.

Taliesinrk
12-04-2010, 03:14 PM
http://www.journalgazette.net/article/20101204/SPORTS20/312049945/1094/SPORTS20

I love Dunn even more. I also am glad to see the details of AJ's contract. It looks like he deferred money until next year to help sign PK.

Of all the places to get a story to quote, you pick the Ft. Wayne paper? Awesome.

KMcMahon817
12-04-2010, 05:24 PM
Far better? Seriously? Are you taking into account that there are several guys that played for Minny last year that are FAs "as of right now?" According to Cot's (* means that there is an option):

Jim Thome MIN
Orlando Hudson MIN
J.J. Hardy MIN (Arb 3)
Nick Punto MIN * (club option)
Michael Cuddyer MIN * (club option)
Jason Kubel MIN * (club option)
Carl Pavano MIN
Jesse Crain MIN
Randy Flores MIN
Brian Fuentes MIN
Matt Guerrier MIN
Ron Mahay MIN
Jon Rauch MIN
Brian Duensing MIN

Note that the list includes both starting middle IFs, 2/3 of the starting OF, their best SP from last year, and almost their entire bullpen. So you might want to "see what the [Twinkees] do with [their] bullpen [among other things] before declaring them "far better than the Sox as of right now."


That list isn't really true. Duensing is not a FA. No idea where you came up with that idea. Kubel and Cuddyer's options have been exercised. And, JJ Hardy was tendered a contract.

The Twins bullpen will need to be completely rebuilt, however, they do still have Nathan and Capps, which is a good start. Losing Pavano is going to hurt the Twins starting pitching ALOT, unless they can find a way to get a top tier starter this offseason. Punto is of no loss because Valencia is going to their man at 3B. Not sure what they're going to do at 2B, but I read in the MPLS Star Tribune that they are going to give Alexei Casilla a strong look for the everyday job in ST.

I think the SOX are in a great position to compete with the Twins next year if they resign Paulie. However, I don't see the Twins dropping off significantly at all.

JermaineDye05
12-05-2010, 07:39 PM
I was marveling at this last night:

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=5788347

I think it's a safe bet to say that Dunn will be breaking Joe Borchard's record.

asindc
12-05-2010, 07:48 PM
That list isn't really true. Duensing is not a FA. No idea where you came up with that idea. Kubel and Cuddyer's options have been exercised. And, JJ Hardy was tendered a contract.

The Twins bullpen will need to be completely rebuilt, however, they do still have Nathan and Capps, which is a good start. Losing Pavano is going to hurt the Twins starting pitching ALOT, unless they can find a way to get a top tier starter this offseason. Punto is of no loss because Valencia is going to their man at 3B. Not sure what they're going to do at 2B, but I read in the MPLS Star Tribune that they are going to give Alexei Casilla a strong look for the everyday job in ST.

I think the SOX are in a great position to compete with the Twins next year if they resign Paulie. However, I don't see the Twins dropping off significantly at all.

I take it that you haven't read the entire thread, or all of my posts, for that matter.

KMcMahon817
12-05-2010, 08:06 PM
I take it that you haven't read the entire thread, or all of my posts, for that matter.

Huh? I read the thread, and your posts in the thread. You said you fully expect those options to be picked up, not that the decisions had already been made. And, no, Duensing is not a FA. Still no idea where you came up with that. He is under team control for at least another three or four years.

And I do believe I commented on your post before reading through the next two pages of posts. So, that's why I missed your comments on Cuddy, Kubel, Punto and Hardy. My bad.

asindc
12-05-2010, 08:10 PM
Huh? I read the thread, and your posts in the thread. At the time I commented, I don't believe you had edited your list referring to the decisions made on the Kubel, Cuddyer, or Punto options. And, no, Duensing is not a FA. Still no idea where you came up with that. He is under team control for at least another three or four years.

In one of my posts, I noted that I got the information from two different pages on the Cot's website. The 2010 Minnesota team salary page on Cot's shows Duensing as not being under contract for 2011. If that information is wrong, so is the Cot's website.

KMcMahon817
12-05-2010, 08:14 PM
In one of my posts, I noted that I got the information from two different pages on the Cot's website. The 2010 Minnesota team salary page on Cot's shows Duensing as not being under contract for 2011. If that information is wrong, so is the Cot's website.

Hmm. He's not even arbitration eligible until 2013.

trilobite_hives
12-06-2010, 09:31 AM
Adam Dunn has been one of my favorite players for years now, and I am so happy he is now a member of the White Sox. With Dunn, and most likely Konerko, we will have signed 2 of the best offensive players this offseason. I am so proud to be a fan of this team.

doublem23
12-06-2010, 09:51 AM
In one of my posts, I noted that I got the information from two different pages on the Cot's website. The 2010 Minnesota team salary page on Cot's shows Duensing as not being under contract for 2011. If that information is wrong, so is the Cot's website.

The information is correct, you just interpretted it wrong. Cot's is another mom and pop operation, like WSI, which I believe is edited entirely by 1 guy, so he understandably doesn't have time to add in every pre-arb and arb year for guys like Duensing who entered this season with all of 0.104 years of ML service. Obviously a guy like that isn't going to be a free agent for very, very long time.

The rule of thumb to follow with younger guys signed to league minimum deals is if there isn't an "FA" in any of the upcoming boxes then he's still operating under team control for some time.

A good places to verify that info is Baseball-Reference.com. They have contract info available for almost every player.

RockJock07
12-06-2010, 10:57 AM
I was marveling at this last night:

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=5788347

I think it's a safe bet to say that Dunn will be breaking Joe Borchard's record.

I was working in ticket sales at the time for the Crew and I was at that game, Other then Sosa's HR derby and and Fielder hitting one off the scoreboard that was the longest HR I've seen in my life at Miller Park. Everyone in the stands was speechless.

doublem23
12-07-2010, 11:06 AM
B-R.com has started doing a payroll matrix similar to Cot's, but they have taken the time to fill in all the pre-Arb and Arb years of the guys on the 40-man roster for each team.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/MIN/2010-roster.shtml

asindc
12-09-2010, 03:17 PM
This might be of some interest. Tom Boswell, Washington Post columnist and DC's version of Peter Gammons, wrote on his blog this morning that a teammate of Dunn's said Dunn would have re-signed last year for 3/40-42. Since it is a lengthy blog, I will quote the relevant part here (MODS: If you think this is inappropriate, please feel free to remove.):

Reston: "They acquired Werth because losing Dunn created an uproar amongst the fan base"
This makes no sense. If they cared about the uproar of losing Dunn they wouldn't have let him go in the first place. It's not like they didn't know the fans would be upset if he left. It's clearly a calculated decision - they're going more small ball - and we'll see how it works out. I was equally unhappy when they let Soriano go, but that turned out to be not such a bad move.
I'm just happy they didn't pick up Carlos "Redefine Mendoza Line" Pena .

Tom Boswell: Rizzo decided to lose Dunn. Kasten disagreed. It was friendly. But it has implications. Rizzo had a deal for Edwin ackson all completed with the White Sox for Dunn before the trading deadline. Riz and Stan made their cases to the board. Stan still wanted to resign Dunn __right then__ and also didn't want to run up a mid-season PR-nightmare white flag. Riz wanted the deal. The Nats (board) made the worst possible decision. Don't do either! They kept Dunn, blew off the jackson trade, but DIDN'T make Dunn the offer that a teammate leaked that he wanted __$40-42M for three years.

Rizzo still looks bad inside baseball because it's known that he turned down Jackson-for-Dunn. Jackson is just 27, off the top of my head, throws up to 96 mph, but is only 39-42 career with a 4.50+ ERA. Jackson is no ace. But he has upside potential. And Rizzo would much rather have had Jackson in hand right now __and he wouldn't be looking for "another starting pitcher" like 35-year-old Pavano__ than other two draft picks whichmay mature into real players in '15-'16. Rizzo REALLY wants to get through that '12-'16 window and transform the Nats. Jackson, whether he turned out to be right or wrong about him, was a picher he knew very well, was high ona nd really wanted.

Hopefully, this kind of dysfuynction will end now that there's only one main voice. Of course, variety of opinion has its value. But with the Nats it worked poorly because it wasn't Rizzo and Kasten making a coordinated compromise decision between themselves __"okay, no Jackson deal, but lets SIGN DUNN." Or "okay __make the deal." It was, "Lets not make the deal but....eeeehhhh...lets dawdle until the last week of September and then daydream that we can resign Dunn because that's what the board thinks might happen. Royal screw up. They should have Dunn or Jackson, but not two draft picks. (Okay, now watch the draft picks turn out to be All-Stars.)

Here is the link:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/discussion/2010/12/09/DI2010120901754.html

SoxSpeed22
12-09-2010, 03:42 PM
That's amusing that we have both of those guys now, while they colossally overpaid For Werth. There's no way in hell he will do well in that park and without Ryan Howard, Chase Utley and Raul Ibanez.

delben91
12-09-2010, 03:48 PM
This might be of some interest. Tom Boswell, Washington Post columnist and DC's version of Peter Gammons, wrote on his blog this morning that a teammate of Dunn's said Dunn would have re-signed last year for 3/40-42.

For my money, there are few baseball writers on par with Boswell.

Very interesting, though not surprising as the Nationals front office disarray the past few seasons was a bit of an open secret. Being from the DC area originally, I'd love to see the Nats turn that team around. That said, very glad it allowed the Sox the opportunity to pick up Dunn this offseason.

Wonder if it would've made a difference having Dunn, but no Jackson (or Peavy) down the stretch last season?

asindc
12-10-2010, 11:46 AM
For my money, there are few baseball writers on par with Boswell.

Very interesting, though not surprising as the Nationals front office disarray the past few seasons was a bit of an open secret. Being from the DC area originally, I'd love to see the Nats turn that team around. That said, very glad it allowed the Sox the opportunity to pick up Dunn this offseason.

Wonder if it would've made a difference having Dunn, but no Jackson (or Peavy) down the stretch last season?

More things are coming out about how the Nats' FO was run and why Kasten left. Kasten has been very critical of his experience there but has not been critical of Rizzo or the Lerners, which leaves the oversight Board as the main culprit. Very few Nats fans were aware that the Board had any say so in baseball decisions until the details of the Dunn non-re-signing came out, and no one is happy about it. I liked Kasten and I don't blame him for leaving, but I do wish he had stayed and the Lerners had taken some of the shackles off him and Rizzo. At least Bowden is gone.