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View Full Version : Other than Paulie, What is KW's next move?


soxinem1
12-03-2010, 10:56 AM
I'm sure PK will dominate Ken Williams attention the next week or so, but after seeing the non-tender list, I see a few names that KW might swoop in for on the side:

Jose Veras: Has some control issues, but he throws gas. KW loves relievers who K a lot of people.

Manny Del Carmen: KW has always liked him and I'm sure now he might really make a play for the guy.

Lastings Milledge: If Andruw Jones does not return, he sure is not a bad fourth OF, yet it is obvious he will not be the player NYM or others thought he would be.

Jeremy Accardo: KW loves reclamation projects like him.

Bobby Jenks: Never say never.....

Hideki Okajima: Not a bad LOOGY candidate, and we need one.

aryzner
12-03-2010, 11:05 AM
It really is an interesting topic, because if Teahen is still here, what happens?

Everyone keeps saying that Morel is our third baseman next season, so if that is so, would that make Teahen our 4th OF?

It looks to me like somebody's gotta be traded. It's just a question of who.

tstrike2000
12-03-2010, 11:07 AM
It really is an interesting topic, because if Teahen is still here, what happens?

We unfortunately have to watch him play.

soxinem1
12-03-2010, 11:08 AM
It really is an interesting topic, because if Teahen is still here, what happens?

Everyone keeps saying that Morel is our third baseman next season, so if that is so, would that make Teahen our 4th OF?

It looks to me like somebody's gotta be traded. It's just a question of who.

I would really like to see Morel, as a rookie, get the opportunity to grab 3B and make it his own, and not have some yabo like Encarnacion get picked up.

Teahen can probably play anywhere except CF, SS, and C.

I just hope there is a GM out there who values Teahen as much as KW did.

I just don't think there is much hope for that.

hi im skot
12-03-2010, 11:09 AM
Teahen can probably play anywhere except CF, SS, and C.

I would argue that Mark Teahen can't actually play anywhere.

aryzner
12-03-2010, 11:10 AM
Can he pitch? :tongue:

russ99
12-03-2010, 11:11 AM
It really is an interesting topic, because if Teahen is still here, what happens?

Everyone keeps saying that Morel is our third baseman next season, so if that is so, would that make Teahen our 4th OF?

It looks to me like somebody's gotta be traded. It's just a question of who.

Doubtful anyone's going to take him off our hands, so I'd think he'll end up as the supersub at 1B, 2B, LF and RF, and an occasional DH appearance as well as a potential injury replacement.

Omar's a vastly better 3B backup and mentor to Morel, so I'd doubt Teahen is going to play there anymore.

AzureJazzMan
12-03-2010, 11:14 AM
"Other than Paulie, What is KW's next move?"
Cliff Lee and Carl Crawford :redneck

soxinem1
12-03-2010, 11:24 AM
Doubtful anyone's going to take him off our hands, so I'd think he'll end up as the supersub at 1B, 2B, LF and RF, and an occasional DH appearance as well as a potential injury replacement.

Omar's a vastly better 3B backup and mentor to Morel, so I'd doubt Teahen is going to play there anymore.

Teahen giving fielding tips......:scratch:

I sure hope that never happens. That was like James Baldwin leading by example after barely surviving the fifth inning without giving up three HR's.

"Other than Paulie, What is KW's next move?"
Cliff Lee and Carl Crawford :redneck


http://blogs.houstonpress.com/hairballs/glass-bong2102610.jpg

HarryChappas
12-03-2010, 11:26 AM
Look for Kenny to trade either Carlos or Floyd for a closer. They will not be able to spend a lot after Dunn and Konerko (i hope) are signed. I have been negative towards the organization over the last 2 years, but if they re-sign Paulie we will win the division. Kenny has stepped up and ignored Ozzie ball. He has realized that you MUST have a 16 inch softball player in the lineup to win in the AL. They probably will keep Dunn happy with a few starts at RF or 1B. Look for Sale to win 13-15 games as our 4th or 5th starter. Maybe sign Freddy as insurance policy.

moochpuppy
12-03-2010, 11:33 AM
Look for Kenny to trade either Carlos or Floyd for a closer.

I've read that the Padres are willing to listen to offers for Heath Bell.

I don't like the idea of trading Floyd though because of the uncertainty with Peavy.

soltrain21
12-03-2010, 11:43 AM
I've read that the Padres are willing to listen to offers for Heath Bell.

I don't like the idea of trading Floyd though because of the uncertainty with Peavy.

I'm assuming we will bring back the Sweaty One on the cheap.

The Immigrant
12-03-2010, 11:46 AM
No idea what his next move will be, but before the off-season is over I expect him to sign Freddy Garcia to another one-year deal and to pick up at least two relievers on one or two-year deals. Possible candidates include Guerrier, Crane, Soriano, Putz, Mahay, etc.

wulfy
12-03-2010, 12:06 PM
What would the reaction be if Mark Buehrle was the one to go ....? :o:

Because it's probably what I would consider doing if there is a market for him and you basically pay for Dunn in that move. I'd like to suggest TCQ and MB for Rasmus/filler, but I don't think that's realistic.

Lip Man 1
12-03-2010, 12:08 PM
I think Kenny will work on the bullpen first since that might be accomplished quickly, than look to move Quentin or a starting pitcher.

If he moves a pitcher I hope he re-signs Garcia for insurance and depth. (questions around Peavy and you never know with Sale being moved back to a starter again.)

Lip

gr8mexico
12-03-2010, 12:19 PM
Here is what I would like the Sox to do
1.Sign Paul Konerko
2.TRADE! Mark Teahen
3.Try to trade for Colby Rasmus
4.Trade Carlos Quentin if they get Rasmus
4.Sign D.J Carrasco
5.Sign Grant Balfour

soxinem1
12-03-2010, 12:28 PM
What would the reaction be if Mark Buehrle was the one to go ....? :o:

Because it's probably what I would consider doing if there is a market for him and you basically pay for Dunn in that move. I'd like to suggest TCQ and MB for Rasmus/filler, but I don't think that's realistic.

I'd have no problem with Buehrle being traded. He is paid like an ace and pitches as a #3 at best now, and I doubt he gets better.

Only thing is, MB has to decide if he wants to play, because that extra year gets added if he's dealt, IIRC.

Here is what I would like the Sox to do
1.Sign Paul Konerko
2.TRADE! Mark Teahen
3.Try to trade for Colby Rasmus
4.Trade Carlos Quentin if they get Rasmus
4.Sign D.J Carrasco
5.Sign Grant Balfour

Yes to all of them except the last two. I think Balfour will get a Linebrink type deal from someone, and probably pitch like Linebrink by 2012.

As far as DJ goes, don't really see the need for him quite yet with all of the other possibilities out there.

whitem0nkey
12-03-2010, 12:38 PM
Even if Konerko goes elsewhere, there are capable players available to approximate the production one would reasonably expect from that position.

russ99
12-03-2010, 12:38 PM
After Konerko (or his replacement) is signed, I also think relief pitching will be addressed now (hopefully with Putz) and then later on.

This will be like any other recent FA year. The big ticket guys or ones in demand go early for top dollar, then there will be a lot of guys going cheap in January.

That's when I'd like to see Kenny address other bullpen arms, stopgap/backup starter and veteran bench player for the OF.

By then the Sox will also have some clarity on Quentin, Danks and Pena and their arbitration demands, trading opportunities or re-signing and a better feel for how the payroll shakes out.

Catcher could have waited too, but the market on catchers was closing up and getting A.J. back for a $2M pay cut is better than I expected them to do.

WhiteSoxFTW
12-03-2010, 04:30 PM
I think a trade of Carlos Quentin is got to be high on KW's list. I also think Gavin Floyd is on that list. Gavin is extremely valueable with his contract and the Sox could get a lot back for him.

hi im skot
12-03-2010, 04:50 PM
I think a trade of Carlos Quentin is got to be high on KW's list. I also think Gavin Floyd is on that list. Gavin is extremely valueable with his contract and the Sox could get a lot back for him.

It doesn't mean much, but KW said yesterday that Quentin is his RF.

Could just be talking him up or whatever, but I'm OK with him out there.

doublem23
12-03-2010, 04:54 PM
Could just be talking him up or whatever, but I'm OK with him out there.

Yeah, assuming PK comes back, the lineup fills out with him batting 7th, maybe 6th, depending on how Ozzie wants to shake things up, so he can go be a moody little bitch and still be nice and buried.

soltrain21
12-03-2010, 04:55 PM
Yeah, assuming PK comes back, the lineup fills out with him batting 7th, maybe 6th, depending on how Ozzie wants to shake things up, so he can go be a moody little bitch and still be nice and buried.

If we do keep TCQ, what is the over/under on articles about how god damn focused and pissed off he is about last year?

hi im skot
12-03-2010, 04:55 PM
If we do keep TCQ, what is the over/under on articles about how god damn focused and pissed off he is about last year?

25. I'll take the over.

soltrain21
12-03-2010, 04:56 PM
25. I'll take the over.

Also something about being in the best shape of his life.

Corlose 15
12-03-2010, 05:00 PM
Look for Kenny to trade either Carlos or Floyd for a closer. They will not be able to spend a lot after Dunn and Konerko (i hope) are signed. I have been negative towards the organization over the last 2 years, but if they re-sign Paulie we will win the division. Kenny has stepped up and ignored Ozzie ball. He has realized that you MUST have a 16 inch softball player in the lineup to win in the AL. They probably will keep Dunn happy with a few starts at RF or 1B. Look for Sale to win 13-15 games as our 4th or 5th starter. Maybe sign Freddy as insurance policy.

This isn't really a refutation of Ozzie's idea of rotating people through the DH spot since it's likely that Dunn and Konerko would split some time between DH/1B. It's simply a statement that if you're going to rotate people through DH they actually need to be able to hit.


As for Kenny's next move. I'm really hesitant to trade a starter because with the Peavy uncertainty the Sox really don't have a surplus of starting pitching. Also, with the uncertainty around Jenks, and Putz they really don't have much of a bullpen right now.

DirtySox
12-03-2010, 05:25 PM
Next move is a bullpen arm. Putz. Probably as the closer.

KMcMahon817
12-03-2010, 05:40 PM
I would really like to see Morel, as a rookie, get the opportunity to grab 3B and make it his own, and not have some yabo like Encarnacion get picked up.

Teahen can probably play anywhere except CF, SS, and C.

I just hope there is a GM out there who values Teahen as much as KW did.

I just don't think there is much hope for that.

I am in no way a fan of Teahen, but he can be valuable if used in the right way. He has a decent bat and if we can plug him in at 3rd, 1st, DH, LF, RF a few times a week, I wouldn't be terribly upset.

NLaloosh
12-03-2010, 08:11 PM
If the Sox can get Paulie signed then the rest should be easy.

I'm pretty sure that the Sox are keeping Teahen because he's a left handed bat and is versatile defensively. He seems to play an adequate RF.

I would like to see Jones back but if not I think KW could find a reasonable facsimile.

Then, all they need are two more bullpen arms and there are a lot to choose from - they should be one lefty and one righty. It's possible Putz or Jenks is back. Okajima or Mahay. There's many options.

I truly hope they bring back Freddy as a long man/ spot starter. I think he would be awesome in that role.

I have to say, even though I think Dunn is way overpaid, I think if they can get Paulie back this team could look real good.

spawn
12-03-2010, 10:28 PM
Next move is a bullpen arm. Putz. Probably as the closer.
I think Putz is next as well.

WhiteSox5187
12-03-2010, 10:50 PM
If and hopefully when, the Sox re-sign Paulie I would hope their next focus is then the bullpen which as far as I can tell at this point consists of Santos, Thornton and maybe Sale.

CWSpalehoseCWS
12-03-2010, 11:13 PM
I think a trade of Carlos Quentin is got to be high on KW's list. I also think Gavin Floyd is on that list. Gavin is extremely valueable with his contract and the Sox could get a lot back for him.

That's what I think too. I have no problem trading Quentin so long as Konerko returns. I'd be leery of trading Floyd, just because Danks isn't under contract. But I guess it depends on what the return for him would be.

JermaineDye05
12-03-2010, 11:15 PM
I could see Matt Guerrier coming back.

TheVulture
12-03-2010, 11:31 PM
I think Putz, Thornton and Santos is a good enough core to let the pieces fall where they may with the rest of the bullpen. Someone always seems to pop up in the pen if you give enough guys chances. So I hope he signs Putz first and foremost.

Corlose 15
12-04-2010, 01:29 AM
If and hopefully when, the Sox re-sign Paulie I would hope their next focus is then the bullpen which as far as I can tell at this point consists of Santos, Thornton and maybe Sale.

They offered Pena arbitration so he's in the mix as well. I get the feeling they're going to try to have him be the swing man/long reliever that he was a lot last year.

UofCSoxFan
12-04-2010, 02:33 AM
Next move is a bullpen arm. Putz. Probably as the closer.

I'd love Putz back in a setup role. Wasn't he pretty bad as a closer last year though?

UofCSoxFan
12-04-2010, 02:36 AM
I want no part of Teahen on this team next year (although I don't see how he ins't). Honestly, I thought he looked worse in RF last year than he did at third base. Granted some of that probably had to do with not seeing enough balls out there, but he looked prett brutal the few times I saw him there live.

WhiteSox5187
12-04-2010, 03:45 AM
I'd love Putz back in a setup role. Wasn't he pretty bad as a closer last year though?

I think by the time they used him as a closer he was having that issue with his knee that limited his effectiveness.

guillensdisciple
12-04-2010, 04:52 AM
I would love to see the Sox swoop up Gurrier and the other available relief arm from the Twins.

It would put such a smile on my face seeing them shut down by their own weapons.

Lillian
12-04-2010, 06:25 AM
Assuming that Paulie returns, and that Putz is resigned, the next priority for me would be to address outfield defense.
With Dunn at DH, Quentin ends up back in RF. His strong but inaccurate arm, and his generally hapless play in RF, would be something worth trying to upgrade.
Pierre was surprisingly good in LF last season, but his weak arm makes him just passable, and only as a left fielder.

They could either find a CF, and move Rios back to RF, or find a true right fielder. One more left handed hitter, particularly one with a high OBP might be a better fit for this team, which should have enough power without Quentin.
Markakis would be the prototypical player I have in mind for RF, though I can't see how the Sox could get him with Quentin. His contract is now getting expensive, so maybe even if the Orioles would consider it, Markakis is probably an unaffordable solution.
Perhaps someone younger, and less proven, like Dominic Brown of the Phillies would make more sense. I suspect that it would take Quentin, and Floyd to acquire Brown, and perhaps a young pitcher.
Then there is still the idea about which there has already been considerable speculation; Quentin + for Colby Rasmus.

I still think that the quickest, and cheapest fix might be to simply bring back Jones to play RF, moving Quentin to LF.
He could be the every day right fielder, with Teahen spelling him occasionally. However, I would not want to see Jones hit only against Left handed pitching, as he did last year.
Such a move would eliminate Pierre's playing time, but most of you can guess that wouldn't bother me, in the least.

CF Rios
3B Vizquel
LF Quentin
DH Dunn
1B Konerko
RF Jones/Teahen
SS Ramirez
2B Beckham
C A. J. /Castro

Morel plays vs. left handed pitching, batting 8th or 9th, and Ramirez takes Vizquel's place in the two hole.

That is a very good offensive team, with a balance of right and left handed hitting, and an exceptional defense.

asindc
12-04-2010, 09:22 AM
Assuming that Paulie returns, and that Putz is resigned, the next priority for me would be to address outfield defense.
With Dunn at DH, Quentin ends up back in RF. His strong but inaccurate arm, and his generally hapless play in RF, would be something worth trying to upgrade.
Pierre was surprisingly good in LF last season, but his weak arm makes him just passable, and only as a left fielder.

They could either find a CF, and move Rios back to RF, or find a true right fielder. One more left handed hitter, particularly one with a high OBP might be a better fit for this team, which should have enough power without Quentin.
Markakis would be the prototypical player I have in mind for RF, though I can't see how the Sox could get him with Quentin. His contract is now getting expensive, so maybe even if the Orioles would consider it, Markakis is probably an unaffordable solution.
Perhaps someone younger, and less proven, like Dominic Brown of the Phillies would make more sense. I suspect that it would take Quentin, and Floyd to acquire Brown, and perhaps a young pitcher.
Then there is still the idea about which there has already been considerable speculation; Quentin + for Colby Rasmus.

I still think that the quickest, and cheapest fix might be to simply bring back Jones to play RF, moving Quentin to LF.
He could be the every day right fielder, with Teahen spelling him occasionally. However, I would not want to see Jones hit only against Left handed pitching, as he did last year.
Such a move would eliminate Pierre's playing time, but most of you can guess that wouldn't bother me, in the least.

CF Rios
3B Vizquel
LF Quentin
DH Dunn
1B Konerko
RF Jones/Teahen
SS Ramirez
2B Beckham
C A. J. /Castro

Morel plays vs. left handed pitching, batting 8th or 9th, and Ramirez takes Vizquel's place in the two hole.

That is a very good offensive team, with a balance of right and left handed hitting, and an exceptional defense.

1) Vizquel won't be the starting 3B;

2) Rios won't be the leadoff;

3) Pierre won't be on the bench behind either Jones or Teahen;

4) TCQ won't be the #3 batter as long as Rios is here.

dickallen15
12-04-2010, 10:15 AM
I predict KW lands Joba Chamberlain.

Mingo
12-04-2010, 10:37 AM
In my view - Pierre made enough timely and sensational catches last year it towered above his throwing limitation. I'll bet the pitchers are happy to see him out there. He plays defense with his head in the game.

I'm not completely happy with him as a leadoff hitter as he doesn't control the strike zone, but he does create havoc on the basepaths. His bunting got alot better during the season. I rather see him batting 2nd to a real leadoff hitter, but until a real leadoff hitter comes along - he is the next best thing.

sox1970
12-04-2010, 10:39 AM
I predict KW lands Joba Chamberlain.

Pass

DonnieDarko
12-04-2010, 10:40 AM
Pierre isn't a real leadoff hitter?

What kind of Twilight Zone have I fallen into?

Lillian
12-04-2010, 11:17 AM
1) Vizquel won't be the starting 3B;

2) Rios won't be the leadoff;

3) Pierre won't be on the bench behind either Jones or Teahen;

4) TCQ won't be the #3 batter as long as Rios is here.

I had Morel platooning with Vizquel.
You know that I'm always looking for a way to get rid of Pierre.
I can't help it. I just don't like his game.
Rios became my leadoff candidate, once I eliminated Pierre.

DonnieDarko
12-04-2010, 11:21 AM
I had Morel platooning with Vizquel.
You know that I'm always looking for a way to get rid of Pierre.
I can't help it. I just don't like his game.
Rios became my leadoff candidate, once I eliminated Pierre.

Just out of curiosity, since I don't remember you saying anything last season about Pierre...but what do you not like about his game? Also, going by the logic of getting rid of Pierre, the next best leadoff candidate would have to be Rios...maybe Ramirez, but that would be pushing things a bit, methinks.

Lillian
12-04-2010, 11:33 AM
Just out of curiosity, since I don't remember you saying anything last season about Pierre...but what do you not like about his game? Also, going by the logic of getting rid of Pierre, the next best leadoff candidate would have to be Rios...maybe Ramirez, but that would be pushing things a bit, methinks.

This is the main post which expressed my dissatisfaction with Pierre:

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=121221

DonnieDarko
12-04-2010, 11:43 AM
I...see. I understand where you're coming from with that post, but you'll have to excuse me if I disagree with you on Pierre. Sure, he wasn't at his best last year (mostly because of his horrid start to the season), which is why I expect better of him next year.

Furthermore, we really don't have much of a better option, especially since I like Rios better as a middle of the order kind of guy.

Pierre
Alexei/Vizquel/Beckham?
Konerko
Dunn
Rios
Quentin
Beckham?/AJ/Alexei
AJ/Beckham?/Alexei
Morel/Vizquel

As you can see, the bottom of the order can be worked out many ways. But the top of that order as it stands in my example, that's still a damned potent lineup, enough to scare most pitchers into changing their approach, I would think. Pierre may not be the best leadoff hitter in the team's history, sure, but he's the best option we have right now...especially if Rios puts up his career averages in the 5 hole.

FielderJones
12-04-2010, 11:52 AM
Pierre
Alexei/Vizquel/Beckham?
Konerko
Dunn
Rios
Quentin
Beckham?/AJ/Alexei
AJ/Beckham?/Alexei
Morel/Vizquel


Just curious, why wouldn't you bat Rios, Dunn, Konerko? It makes more sense to me to have your speediest guy third, then put Dunn cleanup to break up the two righties.

asindc
12-04-2010, 11:59 AM
Just curious, why wouldn't you bat Rios, Dunn, Konerko? It makes more sense to me to have your speediest guy third, then put Dunn cleanup to break up the two righties.

I agree 100%. speed, speed/some power, speed/some power, power, power, power/a little speed (TCQ), a little power, whatever we can manage, whatever we can manage.

DonnieDarko
12-04-2010, 12:04 PM
*shrug*

You could do that, sure. I just cobbled that lineup together in five minutes, anyway, so not too much thought went into it. :cool:

ghostface36
12-04-2010, 06:40 PM
uhh so what the hell is gonna happen w chris sale?

ghostface36
12-04-2010, 06:46 PM
and why no love for gordon? he should hit 2nd or 6th burying him is a bad idea

HangWiffum
12-04-2010, 08:24 PM
uhh so what the hell is gonna happen w chris sale?

looks to be starting next year. unless kenny gets a starter for tcq and sale stays in the pen

KMcMahon817
12-04-2010, 09:08 PM
looks to be starting next year. unless kenny gets a starter for tcq and sale stays in the pen

I love how most on this board are ready to give Carlos away. Why? Even if he never regains his 2008 form, which I would say is 50/50, he is still at 25 home run, 80 RBI guy. What's wrong with that? He doesn't have to be an MVP with Dunn, Rios, and Konerko in the same lineup.

I just don't see how KW could get equal value. There is just no way. And now, assuming the SOX resign Paulie, there aren't really any gaping holes to fill by dealing TCQ. Unless, they deal him for a few relievers, which would be incredibly dumb in my opinion.

Let Q roam RF for at least one more season and see if he can regain his form. If so, then KW can explore trading him when his value is higher. No point in trading him now. None at all.

spawn
12-04-2010, 09:15 PM
I love how most on this board are ready to give Carlos away. Why? Even if he never regains his 2008 form, which I would say is 50/50, he is still at 25 home run, 80 RBI guy. What's wrong with that? He doesn't have to be an MVP with Dunn, Rios, and Konerko in the same lineup.

I just don't see how KW could get equal value. There is just no way. And now, assuming the SOX resign Paulie, there aren't really any gaping holes to fill by dealing TCQ. Unless, they deal him for a few relievers, which would be incredibly dumb in my opinion.

Let Q roam RF for at least one more season and see if he can regain his form. If so, then KW can explore trading him when his value is higher. No point in trading him now. None at all.
I can't speak for everyone, but my concern is he can't seem to stay healthy, and he doesn't exactly play stellar defense. However, I'm willing to watch him play another season provided KW doesn't make a trade that upgrades the position both offensively and defensively.

Lip Man 1
12-04-2010, 09:19 PM
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/ct-spt-1205-white-sox-winter-meetings20101203,0,704502.story

Lip

KMcMahon817
12-04-2010, 09:22 PM
I can't speak for everyone, but my concern is he can't seem to stay healthy, and he doesn't exactly play stellar defense. However, I'm willing to watch him play another season provided KW doesn't make a trade that upgrades the position both offensively and defensively.

Don't get me wrong, his inconsistency and injuries frustrate me as much as the next guy. However, while I know his defense isn't good, it is passable. Put it this way, the Cards just signed Berkman to play LF. :o: Most teams have one outfielder who isn't "great", and I think Rios in CF helps Carlos somewhat.

If Kenny could flip him for a guy who doesn't have injury history, has 40 HR potential and can play RF well, I'd trade him too. But that isn't happening.

thomas35forever
12-04-2010, 09:50 PM
Bolstering the 'pen. You can never have enough relievers, especially with Linebrink gone now.

rcescato
12-05-2010, 09:57 AM
I would argue that Mark Teahen can't actually play anywhere.


LMAO But since kw is dreaming big! Why not Cliff Lee. Then try floyd in the boopen.

soxinem1
12-05-2010, 12:06 PM
I could see Matt Guerrier coming back.

Yes and no. While he is usually a solid option, KW likes to have bullpen arms that have good hard stuff for strike outs, and rarely have we had guys who just get outs like Guerrier as relievers.

LMAO But since kw is dreaming big! Why not Cliff Lee. Then try floyd in the boopen.

Your what hurts? :scratch: