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russ99
12-01-2010, 06:57 PM
EDIT: Updated 12/16 after Crain signing

Locked in:
Peavy, Jake - $16M
Buehrle, Mark - $14M
Rios, Alex - $12.5M
Konerko, Paul - $12M (YAY)
Dunn, Adam - $12M
Jackson, Edwin - $8.35M
Pierre, Juan - $5M (including cash in deal with LA)
Floyd, Gavin - $5M
Teahen, Mark - $4.75M (assuming cash in deal with KC used in 2010)
Crain, Jesse - $4M
Thornton, Matt - $3M
Ramirez, Alexei - $2.75M
Pierzynski, A.J. - $2M
Vizquel, Omar - $1.75M
Viciedo, Dayan - $1.25M
Castro, Ramon - $1.2M
(+$3.5M sent in Linebrink deal)
--------
Total: $109.05M

Arb Eligible:
Danks, John - $4.5M (est.)
Quentin, Carlos - $4M (est.)
Pena, Tony - $1.75M (est.)
---------
Total:$10M

League minimum:
Beckham, Gordon
Santos, Sergio
Sale, Chris
Morel, Brent
Lillibridge, Brent
De Aza, Alejandro
--------
Total: $2.6M (est.)

The verdict:
Total Payroll: $121.65M

Brian26
12-01-2010, 07:13 PM
I love Buehrle and wanted him back after '07. I loved the Peavy deal, too. But, wow, does it hurt seeing 1/3 of the current team salary going to those two guys. Hopefully they can have a solid season this year.

Marqhead
12-01-2010, 07:22 PM
I love Buehrle and wanted him back after '07. I loved the Peavy deal, too. But, wow, does it hurt seeing 1/3 of the current team salary going to those two guys. Hopefully they can have a solid season this year.

I agree, but it doesn't look nearly as bad if they're both healthy and pitching well. Seeing what some teams throw out there every 5th day, I'm glad we've invested heavily in pitching.

Brian26
12-01-2010, 07:29 PM
After the Sox square up with Danks, we're looking at 50 million for their starting rotation, roughly 45% of their expected payroll spent on 20% of their roster.

It would not surprise me to see one of them gone before Spring Training.

Frater Perdurabo
12-01-2010, 08:54 PM
Sure would be nice not to have to pay that much money to Teahen. Then again, he might be our starting first baseman in 2011. :(:

aryzner
12-01-2010, 09:08 PM
After the Sox square up with Danks, we're looking at 50 million for their starting rotation, roughly 45% of their expected payroll spent on 20% of their roster.

It would not surprise me to see one of them gone before Spring Training.
People keep saying it'll be Floyd, but at $5M it doesn't really eliminate that much of the starting rotation money.

It really makes both the Jackson and Peavy trades look like they've created a huge problem. And now with mentioning that, I may have just opened up a huge can of worms in this thread. :o:

doublem23
12-01-2010, 09:15 PM
People keep saying it'll be Floyd, but at $5M it doesn't really eliminate that much of the starting rotation money.

It really makes both the Jackson and Peavy trades look like they've created a huge problem. And now with mentioning that, I may have just opened up a huge can of worms in this thread. :o:

I don't think there's much more to say about either of those two deals at this point. We all know how we feel.

:shrug:

The benefit to trading Floyd, even if he doesn't take that much off the team's payroll is that a good, young SP with a pretty attractive deal can bring back at least 2, maybe more, MLB roster pieces. There aren't a lot of good ways to fill these spots while slashing payroll.

Also, Floyd might be the most realistic tradeable asset. Peavy and Buehrle are probably untradeable at this point. Jackson, who knows? Danks has better value, but he's also a better pitcher, I'd like to think the Sox are determined to lock him up. That leaves Gavin.

DirtySox
12-01-2010, 09:21 PM
Also, Floyd might be the most realistic tradeable asset. Peavy and Buehrle are probably untradeable at this point. Jackson, who knows? Danks has better value, but he's also a better pitcher, I'd like to think the Sox are determined to lock him up. That leaves Gavin.

Exactly. All of this. Floyd has so much surplus value. He also still has plenty of potential. Other then Danks, Gavin should provide the best haul. A substantial one.

russ99
12-02-2010, 07:54 AM
Exactly. All of this. Floyd has so much surplus value. He also still has plenty of potential. Other then Danks, Gavin should provide the best haul. A substantial one.

Certainly. That's also why there's rumors of the Sox talking about Quentin, since both Floyd and Quentin would return players with lower salary that can help the Sox now and also give us more payroll flexibility.

The only salaries I take issue with are Linebrink and Teahen, due to performance. Good starting pitching is expensive. Maybe next year we can get closer to value with those guys.

Linebrink is going into his free agent year so if he's going to perform better, this is the time. Teahen has a fairly decent track record with KC, so he should produce more at the plate, even though defensively he's certainly sub-par. I don't see other teams taking these guys off our hands until midseason, if they play better.

I'd also love to see the Sox do something with Buehrle, as his salary for next year will surely be lower than this one, so maybe they can reduce his number by signing an extension, maybe defer some cash.

cws05champ
12-02-2010, 08:32 AM
Here's the current info:
Arb Eligible:
Jenks, Bobby - $8M (est.)
Danks, John - $4.5M (est.)
Quentin, Carlos - $4M (est.)
Pena, Tony - $1.75M (est.)


I think you are a little light on TCQ and Danks. Danks will surely make $5.5-$6M next year and Carlos will probably be in the $5-5.5 range. So add another $2-3M to your overall figures.

cleanwsox
12-02-2010, 09:18 AM
Locked in:
Peavy, Jake - $16M
Buehrle, Mark - $14M
Rios, Alex - $12.5M
Jackson, Edwin - $8.35M
Linebrink, Scott - $5.5M
Pierre, Juan - $5M (including cash in deal with LA)
Floyd, Gavin - $5M
Teahen, Mark - $4.75M (assuming cash in deal with KC used in 2010)
Thornton, Matt - $3M
Ramirez, Alexei - $2.75M
Vizquel, Omar - $1.75M
Viciedo, Dayan - $1.25M
Castro, Ramon - $1.2M
--------
Total: $82.55M



All those add up to $81.05M

russ99
12-02-2010, 09:31 AM
All those add up to $81.05M

OK, my excel sheet is messed up. I'll edit this later today.

I think you are a little light on TCQ and Danks. Danks will surely make $5.5-$6M next year and Carlos will probably be in the $5-5.5 range. So add another $2-3M to your overall figures.

Carlos isn't getting anywhere near $5 in a hearing (up from $3.2M), and he'd be smart to settle beforehand. His last two seasons are underwhelming as a whole, the Sox would have a strong case for their lower number based on similar players.

Danks could go anywhere from $4.5-$5.5 (based on Josh Johnson's figures last season) though he'd ask for more if it came to a hearing. I'm expecting him to sign for under $5 beforehand, especially if the Sox can get him signed to an extension as planned that buys out a FA year at a premium.

We'll have to see once figures are exchanged in late January.

cws05champ
12-02-2010, 11:36 AM
OK, my excel sheet is messed up. I'll edit this later today.



Carlos isn't getting anywhere near $5 in a hearing (up from $3.2M), and he'd be smart to settle beforehand. His last two seasons are underwhelming as a whole, the Sox would have a strong case for their lower number based on similar players.

Danks could go anywhere from $4.5-$5.5 (based on Josh Johnson's figures last season) though he'd ask for more if it came to a hearing. I'm expecting him to sign for under $5 beforehand, especially if the Sox can get him signed to an extension as planned that buys out a FA year at a premium.

We'll have to see once figures are exchanged in late January.
Danks made $3.5M last year, and had a good year. You can't compare him to Johnson because he was a special case. He was out for year with an injury and made $1.4M the year before(2009). He asked for $5M, the club offered $3M and eventually settled on the 4/$39M. Whereas Danks already sits at $3.5M with 4 yrs of service time and 2nd yr Arbitration.

I think one of the better comps is Wandy Rodriguez...in 2009 he was at $2.6M and came into 2010 with 4 yrs service time and came off a good year (14W, 3.02 ERA). He asked for $7M, club offered $5M and he lost arbitration and got $5M. Considering his 2rd arb # was $2.6M and he lost and still got $5M you have to think Danks will get more. And considering the Sox never go to arbitration, you can easily see the mid point being $6M 1 yr deal unless they get an extension worked out (which I hope they do).

Here are all the arbitration #'s from last year and the deals worked out. I can't really find a good comp for Carlos in there except for maybe Victorino (who is a bit different player than TCQ), and he got a 3/$22M deal from the Phillies.

http://www.bizofbaseball.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=599&Itemid=72

Nelfox02
12-02-2010, 12:06 PM
Sure would be nice not to have to pay that much money to Teahen. Then again, he might be our starting first baseman in 2011. :(:

Cue the angry mob for Kenny/Ozzie Town Hall at Sox Fest when this announcement is made.....

Carolina Kenny
12-02-2010, 12:29 PM
I love the Sox, but if Tea Hen Party is our starting 1st baseman, I will take to the streets in protest.

hi im skot
12-02-2010, 12:56 PM
I love the Sox, but if Tea Hen Party is our starting 1st baseman, I will take to the streets in protest.

:hawk

"STRETCH!"

Hitmen77
12-03-2010, 09:58 AM
EDIT: Updated 12/2 EOD:

Locked in:
Peavy, Jake - $16M
Buehrle, Mark - $14M
Dunn, Adam - $14M (if all 4 years are the same, which I doubt)
Rios, Alex - $12.5M
Jackson, Edwin - $8.35M
Linebrink, Scott - $5.5M
Pierre, Juan - $5M (including cash in deal with LA)
Floyd, Gavin - $5M
Teahen, Mark - $4.75M (assuming cash in deal with KC used in 2010)
Pierzynski, A.J. - $4M
Thornton, Matt - $3M
Ramirez, Alexei - $2.75M
Vizquel, Omar - $1.75M
Viciedo, Dayan - $1.25M
Castro, Ramon - $1.2M
--------
Total: $99.05M

Arb Eligible:
Danks, John - $4.5M (est.)
Quentin, Carlos - $4M (est.)
Pena, Tony - $1.75M (est.)
---------
Total:$10M

League minimum:
Beckham, Gordon
Santos, Sergio
Sale, Chris
Morel, Brent
Lillibridge, Brent
De Aza, Alejandro
--------
Total: $2.6M (est.)

The verdict:
Total Payroll: $111.65M

Still more budget left over for Paulie? Holy cow, Jerry's really going for it.

There's also some money still to spend on the bullpen (either by re-signing Putz or signing another veteran reliever).

Konerko alone would push the payroll to over $120M, but Kenny said they have room for it.

I wonder if someone like Floyd or Quentin gets traded to keep payroll to a certain level. Also, I wonder how much of Peavy's contract is insured if he misses a good amount of time this season.

russ99
12-03-2010, 10:47 AM
There's also some money still to spend on the bullpen (either by re-signing Putz or signing another veteran reliever).

Konerko alone would push the payroll to over $120M, but Kenny said they have room for it.

I wonder if someone like Floyd or Quentin gets traded to keep payroll to a certain level. Also, I wonder how much of Peavy's contract is insured if he misses a good amount of time this season.

I think Peavy has to miss the entire season to have insurance kick in, so I doubt that's an option.

Rumors are the Sox offered Putz $5M, which would be a good price for him, if he goes for it.

I doubt Jerry will go over $120M, as he's only paid out that amount once - in 2006 after we got playoff and Series revenue.

Floyd or Quentin could be dealt, or failing that, Danks could be dealt if they can't lock him up before a hearing.

Plus there's also the chance they could trade Mark or re-sign him at a lower or deferred rate.

soltrain21
12-03-2010, 11:00 AM
I think Peavy has to miss the entire season to have insurance kick in, so I doubt that's an option.

Rumors are the Sox offered Putz $5M, which would be a good price for him, if he goes for it.

I doubt Jerry will go over $120M, as he's only paid out that amount once - in 2006 after we got playoff and Series revenue.

Floyd or Quentin could be dealt, or failing that, Danks could be dealt if they can't lock him up before a hearing.

Plus there's also the chance they could trade Mark or re-sign him at a lower or deferred rate.

I don't want to see it happen, but wonder what kind of haul we'd get for Danks?

WhiteSoxFTW
12-03-2010, 03:42 PM
Russ, AJ's new contract is $2 million in 2011, and $6 million in 2012.

http://view.ed4.net/v/HML41N/XHKAZC/SPQC0PR/V4KZK0/MAILACTION=1&FORMAT=H?partnerId=ed-4308381-171990970

The above link is to the email I just got from the White Sox.

Edit: Also, I haven't seen the numbers but KW said Adam Dunn took money out of year 1 of his contract and moved it to the back end, as well.

sox1970
12-03-2010, 03:49 PM
Dunn is making $12 in 2011. Then $14 in 2012, $15 in 2013 and 2014.

I have them at about $92 right now + Danks, Pena, Quentin, and the under-3 year service time players.

DirtySox
12-03-2010, 04:29 PM
Also:

http://a1.twimg.com/profile_images/934235221/Maria2_normal.jpg
scottmerkin (http://twitter.com/#%21/scottmerkin) Scott Merkin
Just to be clear from earlier Tweet, White Sox saved $2 million off the $5.5 million owed to Linebrink in the trade. So you can do the math
38 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/#%21/scottmerkin/status/10811593751269376)

Marqhead
12-03-2010, 04:58 PM
Also:

http://a1.twimg.com/profile_images/934235221/Maria2_normal.jpg
scottmerkin (http://twitter.com/#%21/scottmerkin) Scott Merkin
Just to be clear from earlier Tweet, White Sox saved $2 million off the $5.5 million owed to Linebrink in the trade. So you can do the math
38 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/#%21/scottmerkin/status/10811593751269376)

Zuh?

I thought all the reports were we only paid $1.5? Is this suggesting we paid $3.5?

DirtySox
12-03-2010, 05:00 PM
Zuh?

I thought all the reports were we only paid $1.5? Is this suggesting we paid $3.5?

Yes. The initial reports are wrong.

Marqhead
12-03-2010, 05:03 PM
Yes. The initial reports are wrong.

Hmmm....Linebrink or 2 million. What's worth more? We need someone for garbage time.

A. Cavatica
12-03-2010, 06:29 PM
After the Sox square up with Danks, we're looking at 50 million for their starting rotation, roughly 45% of their expected payroll spent on 20% of their roster.

It would not surprise me to see one of them gone before Spring Training.

At least it's the right 20%. Starting pitcher > position player.

anewman35
12-03-2010, 08:37 PM
Hmmm....Linebrink or 2 million. What's worth more? We need someone for garbage time.

You can use a minor leaguer making the major league minimum for garbage time. He wouldn't be any worse than Linebrink.

DirtySox
12-03-2010, 08:38 PM
You can use a minor leaguer making the major league minimum for garbage time. He wouldn't be any worse than Linebrink.

Lucas Harrell come on down.

cws05champ
12-03-2010, 09:26 PM
Lucas Harrell come on down.

Dam, just get DJ Carrasco again...he could probably be had for $600K.

TheVulture
12-03-2010, 10:38 PM
Jackson will be well worth the 8.5 million in 2011.

doublem23
12-03-2010, 10:42 PM
Lucas Harrell come on down.

Honestly, and of course, I only saw Harrell in very limited action last year, I think Harrell has the stuff to be a 1-inning kind of guy. I don't think he has enough pitches to stretch out over 6-7 innings every 5 nights, but from what I saw, if he knows he only needs to throw 20 pitches, he can dial up the velocity a little bit and looked like he could be an effective reliever. I remember one at bat against Derek Jeter, he just blew a couple of fastballs right past him. I know, Jeter's getting up there and he's not the same guy he was a few years ago, but he made him look downright silly.

I don't like Harrell as a SP, but I wouldn't mind if he earned a shot at the bullpen. That's probably his ticket to the Majors.

gobears1987
12-04-2010, 07:50 AM
Anyone who spent the last year calling Jerry Reinsdorf and the organization cheap should apologize. If they are throwing $13 MM or more at PK (which is actually a raise over his previous contract) then this team's payroll will be among the highest in baseball.

Hitmen77
12-06-2010, 02:49 PM
According to this story, JR says the Sox final payroll will be "somewhere around" $110 million:

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/Chicago-White-Sox-chairman-Jerry-Reinsdorf-optimistic-about-Paul-Konerko-return-120610

KMcMahon817
12-06-2010, 06:35 PM
According to this story, JR says the Sox final payroll will be "somewhere around" $110 million:

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/Chicago-White-Sox-chairman-Jerry-Reinsdorf-optimistic-about-Paul-Konerko-return-120610

If Paulie is resigned, and the bullpen is addressed with a FA or two, a $110 million payroll will be tough without dealing one of Floyd, Danks, Quentin, etc. I sure hope he pushes it a little closer to $120 million for this season, although unlikely.

soltrain21
12-06-2010, 07:55 PM
If Paulie is resigned, and the bullpen is addressed with a FA or two, a $110 million payroll will be tough without dealing one of Floyd, Danks, Quentin, etc. I sure hope he pushes it a little closer to $120 million for this season, although unlikely.

Honestly I'd like to see Floyd or Quentin moved as long it's a move that A) Gives a little salary relief and B) helps the big league club.

KMcMahon817
12-06-2010, 08:47 PM
Honestly I'd like to see Floyd or Quentin moved as long it's a move that A) Gives a little salary relief and B) helps the big league club.

Any move that involves Quentin would not help the club in my very honest opinion. I have stated this several times on here since seasons end, but there is no way in the world KW could get equal value for Quentin.

For Floyd, it would really depend on the move. He doesn't make much money as is, so the relief would be minimal. While that 5 million or so could probably help to sign a reliever, I don't necessary see that as a good trade off. But, again, it would all depend on the move. I think the rotation would be just fine as Danks, Buehrle, Jackson, Sale, Garcia for a couple until Peavy is back.

However, moving the two in a package together could garner something interesting. I would be more inclined to go that route.

doublem23
12-06-2010, 08:59 PM
Any move that involves Quentin would not help the club in my very honest opinion. I have stated this several times on here since seasons end, but there is no way in the world KW could get equal value for Quentin.

You're not going to get equal value for Quentin, but if we keep him, we won't be getting equal value for him in the amount that he's going to get paid. Dude's going to wind up with a $5-$6 M contract to be a crappy fielder, extremely streaky hitter, and china doll health-wise. He's a candidate for a pure salary dump, if the Sox can dump him hopefully his resources can be put to better use.

KMcMahon817
12-06-2010, 09:03 PM
You're not going to get equal value for Quentin, but if we keep him, we won't be getting equal value for him in the amount that he's going to get paid. Dude's going to wind up with a $5-$6 M contract to be a crappy fielder, extremely streaky hitter, and china doll health-wise. He's a candidate for a pure salary dump, if the Sox can dump him hopefully his resources can be put to better use.

4.5-5 million would be realistic, wouldn't it? I couldn't see his salary nearly doubling in arbitration after last year.

Yes, he is a crappy fielder. Yes, he has had injury issues. And yes, he could revert back to 2008 form and be an MVP candidate. No point in giving up on him yet. One more year of 2010 TCQ, it would be an appropriate time for a salary dump....just not yet. Just my opinion.

And since when is 26 HRS and nearly 90 RBI not worth 5-6 million? That's, like, a steal.

khan
12-08-2010, 09:55 AM
According to this story, JR says the Sox final payroll will be "somewhere around" $110 million:

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/Chicago-White-Sox-chairman-Jerry-Reinsdorf-optimistic-about-Paul-Konerko-return-120610

So much for the $110M...

As I've posted elsewhere, IMO, JR's got to go "all in" and authorize ~$130M, so as to close the gaps in the bullpen at this point. Otherwise, KW will have put together an extremely expensive 2nd place or ALDS losing team.

If the deferred payout part of the deal is in fact true, that could help this year's salary budget if the salary being deferred is from 2011. Having said that, there still has to be an investment in the bullpen, IMO.

asindc
12-08-2010, 09:59 AM
So much for the $110M...

As I've posted elsewhere, IMO, JR's got to go "all in" and authorize ~$130M, so as to close the gaps in the bullpen at this point. Otherwise, KW will have put together an extremely expensive 2nd place or ALDS losing team.

I don't know if the Sox need to spend $20 million this year on four more relievers, but I do agree that they should push past any self-imposed player salary budget to get quality relievers. No half-assing it now that you have signed two of the top 10 FAs on the market and arguably the 2nd best available catcher as well.

khan
12-08-2010, 10:02 AM
I don't know if the Sox need to spend $20 million this year on four more relievers, but I do agree that they should push past any self-imposed player salary budget to get quality relievers. No half-assing it now that you have signed two of the top 10 FAs on the market and arguably the 2nd best available catcher as well.

Agreed. Now I'll have to sit down and calculate where the salary budget is at right now.


Well, that, and scan the FA list for RPs.

hawkjt
12-08-2010, 10:33 AM
The thing with relief pitchers is that you never know if you are going to really get value for bidding on the expensive guys...like Linebrink.

I am going to trust Kenny and co. on bullpen additions. These relievers are just a crap shoot year to year. Go low and get lucky works for me.

khan
12-08-2010, 10:38 AM
The thing with relief pitchers is that you never know if you are going to really get value for bidding on the expensive guys...like Linebrink.

I am going to trust Kenny and co. on bullpen additions. These relievers are just a crap shoot year to year. Go low and get lucky works for me.

So in other words, why bother signing any RPs at all, right?

After all, JJ Putz sucked, and Octavio Dotel sucked, so why repeat THOSE mistakes?

Let's just re-acquire Clevelan Santeliz and Carlos Torres. While we're at it, Lucas Harrell will make a DANDY setup man!

I mean, never mind that JR just authorized a much larger payroll than any of us had hoped for going into the offseason. Let's just repeat the idea from 2007, and use "wishes" and "hopes" and AAAA-types for the bullpen.

russ99
12-08-2010, 10:48 AM
So much for the $110M...

As I've posted elsewhere, IMO, JR's got to go "all in" and authorize ~$130M, so as to close the gaps in the bullpen at this point. Otherwise, KW will have put together an extremely expensive 2nd place or ALDS losing team.

If the deferred payout part of the deal is in fact true, that could help this year's salary budget if the salary being deferred is from 2011. Having said that, there still has to be an investment in the bullpen, IMO.

With Paul, we're around $117M give or take a few million depending on arbitration amounts. Looks like $120M is the budget.

That leaves $2-3M for a reliever unless we deal some salary. We have Thornton, Santos and Pena, so another experienced righty may do the trick, with kids filling the gaps. I doubt the Sox use Sale for the pen in 2011.

Boondock Saint
12-08-2010, 10:53 AM
So in other words, why bother signing any RPs at all, right?

After all, JJ Putz sucked, and Octavio Dotel sucked, so why repeat THOSE mistakes?

Let's just re-acquire Clevelan Santeliz and Carlos Torres. While we're at it, Lucas Harrell will make a DANDY setup man!

I mean, never mind that JR just authorized a much larger payroll than any of us had hoped for going into the offseason. Let's just repeat the idea from 2007, and use "wishes" and "hopes" and AAAA-types for the bullpen.

1) "Go cheap" and "Don't sign anybody at all" are worlds apart.

2) JJ Putz signed for 1 year and $3m. That's hardly a big contract for a former all star who had put up numbers like he did before injury.

3) You keep putting words in people's mouths. Nobody said to just grab guys who have done nothing but suck.

Hitmen77
12-08-2010, 10:54 AM
So much for the $110M...

As I've posted elsewhere, IMO, JR's got to go "all in" and authorize ~$130M, so as to close the gaps in the bullpen at this point. Otherwise, KW will have put together an extremely expensive 2nd place or ALDS losing team.

If the deferred payout part of the deal is in fact true, that could help this year's salary budget if the salary being deferred is from 2011. Having said that, there still has to be an investment in the bullpen, IMO.

That's the thing about that article - the numbers didn't add up. But it was apparently a quote from JR himself and not just some speculation by some reporter.

I also read it to mean, that JR already had re-signing PK in mind when considering final payroll. So he knew a PK contract would be in the ballpark of $12million for '11.

So, we'll see what happens. It looks like payroll is already closing in on $120M. Maybe JR was just being vague about his intentions.

russ99
12-08-2010, 11:06 AM
That's the thing about that article - the numbers didn't add up. But it was apparently a quote from JR himself and not just some speculation by some reporter.

I also read it to mean, that JR already had re-signing PK in mind when considering final payroll. So he knew a PK contract would be in the ballpark of $12million for '11.

So, we'll see what happens. It looks like payroll is already closing in on $120M. Maybe JR was just being vague about his intentions.

I'm basing my $120 estimate on Kenny's comments that Konerko at $15M would leave them with nothing left to spend. But who knows, it could have been a bargaining ploy.

Besides, Jerry's always been willing to go a bit more if needed when Kenny has an acquisition in mind that could be a difference maker.

Still, a month ago the Sox having a $120M payroll was a pipe dream, so maybe $125M isn't one now.

khan
12-08-2010, 11:10 AM
1) "Go cheap" and "Don't sign anybody at all" are worlds apart.

2) JJ Putz signed for 1 year and $3m. That's hardly a big contract for a former all star who had put up numbers like he did before injury.

3) You keep putting words in people's mouths. Nobody said to just grab guys who have done nothing but suck.
Hawkjt stated, ..."The thing with relief pitchers is that you never know if you are going to really get value for bidding on the expensive guys...like Linebrink...

These relievers are just a crap shoot year to year. Go low and get lucky works for me."

For my part, this is a proxy for not bothering to invest in the bullpen at all. "Going low and get lucky" is what the front office tried in 2007. "Going low and get lucky" is not the direction that they should go at this point, since they've spend lavishly elsewhere.

I'll agree that buying "expensive" RPs is no guarantee of success. But talent costs money; Spending some on the bullpen can improve the chances of having a suitable bullpen.

Regardless of an argument on semantics, IMO, they'd better invest in the bullpen, or risk having an incomplete team that is incapable of going far in the playoffs.

hawkjt
12-08-2010, 11:20 AM
I am not saying the Sox should not invest wisely in relievers....just that they do not need to go top tier price-wise.

The Twins have had a good bullpen with Sox-reject Guerier(sp),and Crain, and the big horse last year John ?,another Sox reject who closed for 4 months for them....unremarkable stuff,but he did well enough.

Steve Phillips just said that it is a great buyers market for relievers this year,which means that the price should be decent for the second tier guys that might just have their special year like Polite et al.. in 2005. We burned them out,but they got us to the promise land.

You seem to think that unless Kenny and Jerry cough up top dollar for the top relievers,they are once again going on the cheap.

How many of those Texas relievers were big dollar guys?
Or Giants?
Anonymous young guys,mainly. Big pricetags do not mean big performance for relievers. And how useful was Kerry Wood for the Yanks vs the Rangers? They did not get to him or Mariano much,cus the Rangers were knocking the ball all over the yard in innings 1-7.

khan
12-08-2010, 11:39 AM
I am not saying the Sox should not invest wisely in relievers....just that they do not need to go top tier price-wise.

The Twins have had a good bullpen with Sox-reject Guerier(sp),and Crain, and the big horse last year John ?,another Sox reject who closed for 4 months for them....unremarkable stuff,but he did well enough.
Rauch?

Steve Phillips just said that it is a great buyers market for relievers this year,which means that the price should be decent for the second tier guys that might just have their special year like Polite et al.. in 2005. We burned them out,but they got us to the promise land.
Steve Phillips also sucked at his job, honestly. I'd hope that he's right, but he's shown to be more of a knucklehead, IMO.

You seem to think that unless Kenny and Jerry cough up top dollar for the top relievers,they are once again going on the cheap.
Incorrect. I note a pattern of them assembling an incomplete team in recent years:

Adding Thome/using Anderson as a CFer in '06.
Using craptacular, cheap, unproven "power arms" in the bullpen in '07.
Adding Peavy, but planning to use Fields as the 3rd baseman.
Adding Rios, then using Kotsay as the primary DH just this past season.

Has the "incomplete team" concept worked for the SOX? IMO, no. For this reason [especially in light of the crappy '07 bullpen] I oppose the "go low and get lucky" idea.

How many of those Texas relievers were big dollar guys?
Or Giants?
Anonymous young guys,mainly.
Those two teams had actual aces in the starting rotation, and a closer. As I type this, the SOX have neither of these things. Nor do the SOX have a RH setup man. Nor do the SOX have a LH setup man, if Thornton is the closer. Nor do the SOX have a LOOGY. Nor do the SOX have a long man/spot starter.

IMO, these are too many holes to close "going low and getting lucky." If they have more solutions [particularly at the back end of the 'pen] in-house, then a team can "go low and get lucky" with a pitcher or two, IMO. [As in the case of Santos this past season.]

Big pricetags do not mean big performance for relievers. And how useful was Kerry Wood for the Yanks vs the Rangers? They did not get to him or Mariano much,cus the Rangers were knocking the ball all over the yard in innings 1-7.
While I'll agree that big pricetags don't ALWAYS mean big perfromances, small pricetags usually mean even crappier performances for relievers. We've already lived through that in '07.

There are simply too many holes in the bullpen to use the "go low and get lucky" route, IMO.

russ99
12-16-2010, 01:09 PM
Adding Crain, we're now over $120M for next year. How high will it go?? :o:

Gavin
12-16-2010, 01:11 PM
If you hurry now you can still grab an Ozzie Plan and lock in games all over sections 534, 540, 539, and 538!

DonnieDarko
12-16-2010, 01:17 PM
If you hurry now you can still grab an Ozzie Plan and lock in games all over sections 534, 540, 539, and 538!

If I could afford it, God knows that I would. :(:

guillensdisciple
12-16-2010, 03:03 PM
If I could afford it, God knows that I would. :(:

it's not as bad as you might think. I checked out a 13 gamer for 400 bucks and that was with some reserved and club seats intermixed. Of course, I don't have 400 bucks on me immediately, so that's a complete different option. I wish there was a payment plan on it- then I would definitely commit.

DonnieDarko
12-16-2010, 03:49 PM
...yeah, $400 is waaaaaaaaaay out of my price range. When you survive on minimum wage, getting season tickets aren't really an option. If there was a payment plan for it, I certainly would give it a shot, too.

soxfanreggie
12-17-2010, 12:28 PM
Adding Crain, we're now over $120M for next year. How high will it go?? :o:

They'll probably be a lot more comfortable going a bit higher if we keep selling new season tickets and have a better lapse/cancellation ratio than the past couple years.

russ99
01-11-2011, 10:27 AM
Updated 1/11 after Ohman signing

Locked in:
Peavy, Jake - $16M
Buehrle, Mark - $14M
Rios, Alex - $12.5M
Konerko, Paul - $12M
Dunn, Adam - $12M
Jackson, Edwin - $8.35M
Pierre, Juan - $5M (including cash in deal with LA)
Floyd, Gavin - $5M
Teahen, Mark - $4.75M (assuming cash in deal with KC used in 2010)
Crain, Jesse - $4M
Thornton, Matt - $3M
Ramirez, Alexei - $2.75M
Pierzynski, A.J. - $2M
Vizquel, Omar - $1.75M
Ohman, Will - $1.5M
Viciedo, Dayan - $1.25M
Castro, Ramon - $1.2M
(+$3.5M sent in Linebrink deal)
--------
Total: $110.55M

Arb Eligible:
Danks, John - $5M (est.)
Quentin, Carlos - $4M (est.)
Pena, Tony - $1.75M (est.)
---------
Total:$10.75M

League minimum:
Beckham, Gordon
Santos, Sergio
Sale, Chris
Morel, Brent
Lillibridge, Brent
De Aza, Alejandro
--------
Total: $2.6M (est.)

Total Payroll: $123.9M

dwitt76
01-11-2011, 10:38 AM
Whats another 7 mildo for R Soriano?

russ99
01-11-2011, 11:21 AM
Whats another 7 mildo for R Soriano?

The problem is Boras wants $10M+

If we could sign Soriano for $7M, we'd have signed him already.

cws05champ
01-11-2011, 12:59 PM
Don't we still owe money to Manny ($1.3M/yr) for the next 3 years??

russ99
01-11-2011, 01:11 PM
Don't we still owe money to Manny ($1.3M/yr) for the next 3 years??

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/12/11/the-red-sox-will-be-paying-manny-ramirez-until-2027/

Looks like the Sox may not be on the hook for that... Correct me if I'm wrong, but if claimed on waivers, the Sox were only responsible for the remainder of 2010, not deferred money owed from other teams.

KMcMahon817
01-11-2011, 05:17 PM
http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/12/11/the-red-sox-will-be-paying-manny-ramirez-until-2027/

Looks like the Sox may not be on the hook for that... Correct me if I'm wrong, but if claimed on waivers, the Sox were only responsible for the remainder of 2010, not deferred money owed from other teams.

http://images.fanpop.com/images/image_uploads/Chirs-chris-farley-286287_298_381.jpg
That is correct.

cws05champ
01-18-2011, 01:01 PM
Carlos isn't getting anywhere near $5 in a hearing (up from $3.2M), and he'd be smart to settle beforehand. His last two seasons are underwhelming as a whole, the Sox would have a strong case for their lower number based on similar players.

Danks could go anywhere from $4.5-$5.5 (based on Josh Johnson's figures last season) though he'd ask for more if it came to a hearing. I'm expecting him to sign for under $5 beforehand, especially if the Sox can get him signed to an extension as planned that buys out a FA year at a premium.

We'll have to see once figures are exchanged in late January.

Danks made $3.5M last year, and had a good year. You can't compare him to Johnson because he was a special case. He was out for year with an injury and made $1.4M the year before(2009). He asked for $5M, the club offered $3M and eventually settled on the 4/$39M. Whereas Danks already sits at $3.5M with 4 yrs of service time and 2nd yr Arbitration.

I think one of the better comps is Wandy Rodriguez...in 2009 he was at $2.6M and came into 2010 with 4 yrs service time and came off a good year (14W, 3.02 ERA). He asked for $7M, club offered $5M and he lost arbitration and got $5M. Considering his 2rd arb # was $2.6M and he lost and still got $5M you have to think Danks will get more. And considering the Sox never go to arbitration, you can easily see the mid point being $6M 1 yr deal unless they get an extension worked out (which I hope they do).

Here are all the arbitration #'s from last year and the deals worked out. I can't really find a good comp for Carlos in there except for maybe Victorino (who is a bit different player than TCQ), and he got a 3/$22M deal from the Phillies.

http://www.bizofbaseball.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=599&Itemid=72
As I had said before the Arb figures at $4.5M for Danks was low and will be about $ 6M. We'll see if Carlos comes in around $5-5.5M today or after arbitration.

salty99
01-18-2011, 01:03 PM
as i had said before the arb figures at $4.5m for danks was low and will be about $ 6m. We'll see if carlos comes in around $5-5.5m today or after arbitration.

q 5.05m

Hitmen77
01-18-2011, 01:15 PM
Updated 1/11 after Ohman signing

--------
Total: $110.55M

Arb Eligible:
Danks, John - $5M (est.)
Quentin, Carlos - $4M (est.)
Pena, Tony - $1.75M (est.)
---------
Total:$10.75M



Total Payroll: $123.9M

The arbitration-eligible total turns out to be $12.65M for these 3 players.

russ99
01-18-2011, 02:06 PM
Updated 1/18 after all arb potentials re-sign

Locked in:
Peavy, Jake - $16M
Buehrle, Mark - $14M
Rios, Alex - $12.5M
Konerko, Paul - $12M
Dunn, Adam - $12M
Jackson, Edwin - $8.35M
Danks, John - $6M
Quentin, Carlos - $5.05M
Pierre, Juan - $5M (including cash in deal with LA)
Floyd, Gavin - $5M
Teahen, Mark - $4.75M (assuming cash in deal with KC used in 2010)
Crain, Jesse - $4M
Thornton, Matt - $3M
Ramirez, Alexei - $2.75M
Pierzynski, A.J. - $2M
Vizquel, Omar - $1.75M
Pena, Tony - $1.6M
Ohman, Will - $1.5M
Viciedo, Dayan - $1.25M
Castro, Ramon - $1.2M
(+$3.5M sent in Linebrink deal)
--------
Total: $123.2M

Close to league minimum:
Beckham, Gordon
Santos, Sergio
Sale, Chris
Morel, Brent
Lillibridge, Brent
De Aza, Alejandro
Humber, Phil
--------
Total: $3.5M (est.)

Total Payroll: $126.7M

$3.3M left over? :wink: