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View Full Version : You Can Have Only One: Pierzynski, Putz, or Konerko..Who Do You Keep?


Thome25
11-24-2010, 07:30 AM
Hypothetically speaking of course but, if the White Sox can keep only one of their own big-name free agents which one do you want them to keep?

IMO The odds of keeping all three just isn't going to happen.

Konerko is Konerko.....he's practically a White Sox lifer and I'd love to see him end his career here. But, I think his production is easily replaceable either in the FA market or through a trade.

AJ--My favorite current player and one of my all-time favorite White Sox players ever. (He's on my list with Pudge, Big Frank, Robin, and Thome.) I think he''s ahead of Konerko in this debate. A good catcher who handles the staff well is not that easy to come by.

Putz--I say that if you can sign only one you have to keep Putz. You can never have enough pitching especially good relief pitching.

With our closer spot possibly vacant, I think Putz is a must keep player and that is hard for me to say because I really want to see AJ come back before anyone.


What do you think?

Thome25
11-24-2010, 07:54 AM
Mods-- Could you please change Konerko's name in the title to "Paulie"? I think it would sound better with the 3 "P's"

THANKS!!!

LITTLE NELL
11-24-2010, 09:18 AM
Has to be Paulie.

soxfanreggie
11-24-2010, 09:36 AM
As much as it's important to have good pitching or a leader like Paulie with good offensive production, you also have to look at what replacement players are available.

There are FAs out there that could realistically sign to replace Putz and Paulie (strictly production). While I would love to keep both of them, their production is replaceable. On the catching side, is there someone out there that we could acquire - a legitimate chance - that could give us what AJ can.

TheOldRoman
11-24-2010, 09:42 AM
I refuse to vote until there is an option added for Kotsay.:D:

Domeshot17
11-24-2010, 10:00 AM
AJ doesn't even belong in the conversation. Your choices are a guy who re-established himself as a top flight reliever, a guy who finished top 5 in MVP voting, and an overpaid league average catcher who isn't even in the top 8-10 at his position let alone overall.

Konerko edges out Putz because its harder to replace 100 RBI's then 100 good innings in the pen.

russ99
11-24-2010, 10:12 AM
I'd go for Putz. Good experienced relievers who can close and are <$5M (unless some fool GM pays him more than that) are at a premium.

Huge fan of both Paulie and A.J., but if we can go younger and get the same production, I'd not be upset too much with them leaving.

pearso66
11-24-2010, 10:47 AM
I say Putz, especially if they are going to let Jenks go. They need a closer, and I would like to keep Thornton in the setup role. I think he is far more valuable there than closer.

LoveYourSuit
11-24-2010, 11:16 AM
AJ doesn't even belong in the conversation. Your choices are a guy who re-established himself as a top flight reliever, a guy who finished top 5 in MVP voting, and an overpaid league average catcher who isn't even in the top 8-10 at his position let alone overall.

Konerko edges out Putz because its harder to replace 100 RBI's then 100 good innings in the pen.


I agree with this.

Not speaking of replacement value nor financials, no ****, Paulie is the answer. Now with all the other factors in play and who can the Sox re-invest their money on, that's a different story. I think there are more replacements for a Paul Konerko in the open market than there are for Putz and AJ. But then again, I think our stock on Putz and AJ might be valued too high also. Putz coming back from elbow surgery and seeking a long term closer money deal (risky). AJ being very average for his position and demanding $6-7 million per season.

aryzner
11-24-2010, 11:31 AM
I feel like if there was ever a recent White Sox player that you ditch the whole "baseball is a business" state of mind for, it's Paulie.

My brain says Konerko may not be the best option for the Sox. But my heart says, "I want to see him retire a White Sox." Re-sign Paulie for the fans.

I'm sure many of you will disagree with me, but that's just how I feel about the situation. Just remember that a player typically does not become a fan favorite (as Paul is) by being a bad player.

soxinem1
11-24-2010, 11:38 AM
I refuse to vote until there is an option added for Kotsay.:D:

Dallas McPherson not good enough for you?:D:

I feel like if there was ever a recent White Sox player that you ditch the whole "baseball is a business" state of mind for, it's Paulie.

My brain says Konerko may not be the best option for the Sox. But my heart says, "I want to see him retire a White Sox." Re-sign Paulie for the fans.

I'm sure many of you will disagree with me, but that's just how I feel about the situation. Just remember that a player typically does not become a fan favorite (as Paul is) by being a bad player.

I voted for Konerko, but somehow I have this feeling that mutually he and the team decided will not be back.

After all, he came close to leaving last time coming off a World Series Championship and it took getting a bat like Thome to keep him here. I just don't see that happening this time around.

True, Reinsdorf and Konerko are close, but when some team offers him four years with at least $12 million per season, I just don't see it happening.

voodoochile
11-24-2010, 11:41 AM
Of the three the obvious choice seems to be Paulie, but I'm also torn because he's the easiest piece to replace via FA or in-house.

Putz isn't a factor for me personally. I think he's very replaceable.

AJ brings more to the table defensively and the Sox don't really have a viable in-house option at the moment unless they are going to bring up Flowers and force him to split time with Castro (a very bad idea, IMO). Maybe Castro is willing to be the primary with a bit more rest than AJ had (two days off a week) but in the past he's supposedly balked at the idea.

So, in a vacuum it's Paulie, but I wouldn't be shocked or disappointed in if it's AJ. Putz is gone, time to get over it.

voodoochile
11-24-2010, 11:45 AM
AJ doesn't even belong in the conversation. Your choices are a guy who re-established himself as a top flight reliever, a guy who finished top 5 in MVP voting, and an overpaid league average catcher who isn't even in the top 8-10 at his position let alone overall.

Konerko edges out Putz because its harder to replace 100 RBI's then 100 good innings in the pen.

Putz isn't a 100 IP guy. He broke down last year pitching 54 and he's never topped 80. I'm not sure he's ever going to be "that guy" again. He'll want a 3/15 deal probably and I don't know if it's worth the risk.

voodoochile
11-24-2010, 11:47 AM
True, Reinsdorf and Konerko are close, but when some team offers him four years with at least $12 million per season, I just don't see it happening.

I think the Sox might go that high for him, but won't be shocked if PK gets 5/75 and the Sox won't go there.

If Jeter leaves the yankees they could sign Paulie, move Tex back to third and Rodriquez to SS and slide PK into first. Sick, I know...

Domeshot17
11-24-2010, 11:48 AM
Putz isn't a 100 IP guy. He broke down last year pitching 54 and he's never topped 80. I'm not sure he's ever going to be "that guy" again. He'll want a 3/15 deal probably and I don't know if it's worth the risk.

Sorry, I wasn't saying he was, just in general its tougher to find a 100 RBI guy then a good RP.

voodoochile
11-24-2010, 11:54 AM
Sorry, I wasn't saying he was, just in general its tougher to find a 100 RBI guy then a good RP.

The market does seem to have a bunch of power hitting 1B available at the moment.

thomas35forever
11-24-2010, 11:57 AM
Paulie's the face of the franchise and just had a big year. Case closed.

Thome25
11-24-2010, 12:00 PM
I feel like if there was ever a recent White Sox player that you ditch the whole "baseball is a business" state of mind for, it's Paulie.

My brain says Konerko may not be the best option for the Sox. But my heart says, "I want to see him retire a White Sox." Re-sign Paulie for the fans.

I'm sure many of you will disagree with me, but that's just how I feel about the situation. Just remember that a player typically does not become a fan favorite (as Paul is) by being a bad player.


Konerko is our version of Jeter. Our captain, Model citizen, soft spoken, playoff hero, and puts up good but not spectacular numbers

With that said, we are not a team that has endless $$$ to spend. We could easily replace Paulie's numbers at 1B/DH through free agency and/or trade.

Heck, even the Yanks appear ready to let Jeter walk.

To me, pitching is always the priority and keeping AJ or finding another catcher that brings what AJ does to the table are bigger priorities.

I'd hate to see PK go but, he is more easily replaced than the other two. And with a team that doesn't spend freely, we need to be prepared for 1 or 2 of them (or God Forbid all 3) leaving via free agency.

DirtySox
11-24-2010, 12:04 PM
Putz.

I don't expect Paulie to reproduce what he did last year. AJ is quite fungible despite the blind love people have for him. I don't have much issue with neither returning.

Domeshot17
11-24-2010, 12:18 PM
Konerko is our version of Jeter. Our captain, Model citizen, soft spoken, playoff hero, and puts up good but not spectacular numbers

With that said, we are not a team that has endless $$$ to spend. We could easily replace Paulie's numbers at 1B/DH through free agency and/or trade.

Heck, even the Yanks appear ready to let Jeter walk.

To me, pitching is always the priority and keeping AJ or finding another catcher that brings what AJ does to the table are bigger priorities.

I'd hate to see PK go but, he is more easily replaced than the other two. And with a team that doesn't spend freely, we need to be prepared for 1 or 2 of them (or God Forbid all 3) leaving via free agency.

You can argue PK over his career, but he was top 5 MVP this year. Jeter just had by far the worst year of his career. PK just put up a monster year.

I just don't think he is easily replacable. There are other 1b available, but we already struggled to drive in runs last year with PK. Now we are talking about replacing our best offensive player and adding missing pieces offensively. I just don't know if it makes sense. I don't see how PK's mvp season is easy to replace, but AJ's this irreplacable rock on the team.

The market is rich in relief pitching right now, so Putz isn't that hard to replace and has injury concerns. AJ is clearly on the decline and was very ordinary last year. This just screams no brainer to me. The only way this makes any sense is if you were going after 2 plus players with the PK money, which you won't get. Laroche and Beltre would be awesome but a pipe dream. We would be looking easily at 20+ mil combined for them.

soxinem1
11-24-2010, 12:21 PM
I think the Sox might go that high for him, but won't be shocked if PK gets 5/75 and the Sox won't go there.

If Jeter leaves the yankees they could sign Paulie, move Tex back to third and Rodriquez to SS and slide PK into first. Sick, I know...

Talk about the most rangeless INF in MLB.:smile:

soxinem1
11-24-2010, 12:23 PM
The market does seem to have a bunch of power hitting 1B available at the moment.

Additionally, Konerko's best years of his five year contract were the first and last.

To expect him to produce more than 30 HR and 90 RBI a season the next three or four years is a pipedream.

Thome25
11-24-2010, 12:27 PM
You can argue PK over his career, but he was top 5 MVP this year. Jeter just had by far the worst year of his career. PK just put up a monster year.

I just don't think he is easily replacable. There are other 1b available, but we already struggled to drive in runs last year with PK. Now we are talking about replacing our best offensive player and adding missing pieces offensively. I just don't know if it makes sense. I don't see how PK's mvp season is easy to replace, but AJ's this irreplacable rock on the team.

The market is rich in relief pitching right now, so Putz isn't that hard to replace and has injury concerns. AJ is clearly on the decline and was very ordinary last year. This just screams no brainer to me. The only way this makes any sense is if you were going after 2 plus players with the PK money, which you won't get. Laroche and Beltre would be awesome but a pipe dream. We would be looking easily at 20+ mil combined for them.

I'm not comparing Jeter and PK over last season. I was being much broader than that. I meant over the course of their entire careers. Konerko really is our version of Jeter when you paint the picture with a broader brush.

PK did have a monster year last year. But, will that be the norm for him or the exception? It screams of a player having a career-year in a contract year. He'll most likely decline back into the player he was in years 2,3, and 4 of his last deal. (Which isn't necessarily a bad thing but, isn't irreplaceable either.)

Will he be able to perform like he did in 2010 over the course of a new 3, 4, or 5 year deal as he gets older? And more importantly, will the Sox be able to find someone who can put up compareable numbers in both the short term and in the long run?

To the last two questions above, I say a resounding "NO" and "YES" respectively.

aryzner
11-24-2010, 12:44 PM
This sort of supports the idea of actually wanting to have a career (or contract) year as well, but wasn't Konerko on some sort of new conditioning program that he had never done before for this year? Could that also have contributed to his success?

Or am I thinking of a different player on the Sox? I could have sworn I remembered reading something like that about Paul, though.

Thome25
11-24-2010, 01:43 PM
Bottom line is, I learned that when Frank Thomas' skills started to decline and the Sox learned to get by without his offense, that NO PLAYER is irreplaceable.

Frank is the all-time greatest offensive player and one of the greatest all time and we learned ways to get by offensively without him amd even won a title largely without his services.

If his production is replaceable anyone's is.

konerko 14
11-24-2010, 01:50 PM
Konerko, they should offer a 3 year $33 million deal if he declines arbtitration, with the last year of the deal moving him to DH.

voodoochile
11-24-2010, 01:53 PM
This sort of supports the idea of actually wanting to have a career (or contract) year as well, but wasn't Konerko on some sort of new conditioning program that he had never done before for this year? Could that also have contributed to his success?

Or am I thinking of a different player on the Sox? I could have sworn I remembered reading something like that about Paul, though.

I was just thinking he seems to have found a way to mitigate his thumb issues which plagued him the two previous years and the one flareup I can recall reading about didn't last as long as it has in the past. It maybe that PK will actually have some of his better years in front of him if he can indeed keep that issue under control. Certainly the next 3 he should be fine and continue to put up very solid numbers.

I'm not trying to defend this decision clearly the Sox needed one more bat to start last season (or at least needed to lose Mark Kotsay and give the job to Jones a lot more), but it may also be that the madness that was the rotating DH allowed to keep PK fresher and that helped too. He spent 23 games as a DH last season and had one more where he PH a single time. Add in the 13 games he didn't appear in at all and that's 20%+ of the season he didn't spend in the field.

Moses_Scurry
11-24-2010, 02:01 PM
I picked Paulie, but I think a lot of people are going to be missing AJ if he is not here next summer. I really hope they sign all three.

dickallen15
11-24-2010, 02:03 PM
I was just thinking he seems to have found a way to mitigate his thumb issues which plagued him the two previous years and the one flareup I can recall reading about didn't last as long as it has in the past. It maybe that PK will actually have some of his better years in front of him if he can indeed keep that issue under control. Certainly the next 3 he should be fine and continue to put up very solid numbers.

I'm not trying to defend this decision clearly the Sox needed one more bat to start last season (or at least needed to lose Mark Kotsay and give the job to Jones a lot more), but it may also be that the madness that was the rotating DH allowed to keep PK fresher and that helped too. He spent 23 games as a DH last season and had one more where he PH a single time. Add in the 13 games he didn't appear in at all and that's 20%+ of the season he didn't spend in the field.
He DH'd 18 times in 2009. I can't fathom 5 more games at first base being the reason for the difference in performance. He was healthier in 2010. I think that's the difference.

russ99
11-24-2010, 02:23 PM
Bottom line is, I learned that when Frank Thomas' skills started to decline and the Sox learned to get by without his offense, that NO PLAYER is irreplaceable.

Frank is the all-time greatest offensive player and one of the greatest all time and we learned ways to get by offensively without him amd even won a title largely without his services.

If his production is replaceable anyone's is.

Yep. And Magglio was the face of the franchise before Paul, and they also replaced him fairly easily.

Personally, I'd love to see Paulie to come back and retire with the Sox, but IMO that would take a substantial cut in pay, that Paul justifiably has no intention of doing.

To continue with my line of thinking: if we're going to have to pay top dollar for a 1B, let's pay for a younger one who has potential to improve, not an older one who's on the way to decline, regardless of his numbers last season or his status as a fan favorite.

DirtySox
11-24-2010, 02:39 PM
To continue with my line of thinking: if we're going to have to pay top dollar for a 1B, let's pay for a younger one who has potential to improve, not an older one who's on the way to decline, regardless of his numbers last season or his status as a fan favorite.

That is indeed the way to go, but there really aren't any younger 1B with upside that are out there on the market. This is evidenced in the list below. If there were, they would be snapped up rather quickly. Acquiring such players occurs in trade situations. If Kenny feels that the 2011 team can't be legitimately competitive due to financial constraints, I hope he takes a step back to consider trades that would some youth/talent/upside to the core.

2011 FA 1B:

Lance Berkman
Russell Branyan
Adam Dunn
Jason Giambi
Troy Glaus
Aubrey Huff SF - Resigned by SF, 2 yr, 22m
Nick Johnson
Paul Konerko
Mark Kotsay
Derrek Lee
Adam LaRoche
Mike Lowell
David Ortiz - Option exercised by BOS
Lyle Overbay
Carlos Pena
Mike Sweeney
Ty Wigginton

KMcMahon817
11-24-2010, 02:53 PM
I think the Sox might go that high for him, but won't be shocked if PK gets 5/75 and the Sox won't go there.

If Jeter leaves the yankees they could sign Paulie, move Tex back to third and Rodriquez to SS and slide PK into first. Sick, I know...

That whole message can't be serious can it? First off, there is no way in hell Paulie gets 5/75. Let's be real. He will sign a deal very similar to what Huff just signed. 2 or 3 years at around 12 million. Not only does Paulie probably not want to play for 5 more years, there is no way a GM would offer that. I would be in absolute shock.

As for your Yankees idea, I can assure you that Tex is going nowhere near third base.

Brian26
11-24-2010, 05:04 PM
That whole message can't be serious can it? First off, there is no way in hell Paulie gets 5/75. Let's be real. He will sign a deal very similar to what Huff just signed. 2 or 3 years at around 12 million. Not only does Paulie probably not want to play for 5 more years, there is no way a GM would offer that. I would be in absolute shock.

As for your Yankees idea, I can assure you that Tex is going nowhere near third base.

When did Teixeira play 3B? Wasn't Blalock at third when Tex first came up?

KMcMahon817
11-24-2010, 06:21 PM
When did Teixeira play 3B? Wasn't Blalock at third when Tex first came up?

He played a few innings at 3B his rookie year. He also played a few innings in RF and LF. He'll be the Yankees 1B for some time; he's not moving.

Rohan
11-24-2010, 07:26 PM
It's got to be Konerko. He's got a solid bat that can hit for power & average. He's got the most underrated glove at 1st base in the league, and he's a leader. Class act that cannot be replaced.

KMcMahon817
11-24-2010, 07:58 PM
It's got to be Konerko. He's got a solid bat that can hit for power & average. He's got the most underrated glove at 1st base in the league, and he's a leader. Class act that cannot be replaced.

I agree. It has to be Paulie. If Paulie leaves, we have to replace his production, and add another preferably left handed, power bat in order to compete.

However, with Buck and Martinez off the market, AJ is probably the best available option.

MetroPD
11-24-2010, 11:15 PM
Yep. And Magglio was the face of the franchise before Paul, and they also replaced him fairly easily.


:scratch: When was this? While Mags was popular I don't ever recall him being the face of the franchise.

monkeypants
11-25-2010, 03:10 AM
Keep in mind, the Sox would be paying these available free agents for what they will produce in the future not for what they have done in the past.

Falstaff
11-25-2010, 04:00 AM
Yeah I say keep AJ, he will be most crucial bang for bucks. If by July we are in race can pick up fat hitting DH / 1B from another team entering rebuild. Also can save the $$, get better look-see at in-house options. Wasnt Viciendo a possibility as Paulie successor at first? He seems to have the bat.:cool:

doublem23
11-25-2010, 07:07 AM
If by July we are in race can pick up fat hitting DH / 1B from another team entering rebuild.

That was the mantra last off-season, too, and the Sox simply didn't have the pieces to make lucrative offers for those kind of players. All we can do is offer to take on salary, a losing strategy since you A) can't do that forever, B) may as well just sign a guy in the off-season so you have him all year, and C) there are plenty of other big market clubs out there who can offer actual players, too.

tick53
11-25-2010, 08:22 AM
Has to be Paulie.

Amen!

MARTINMVP
11-25-2010, 12:08 PM
Agree that Putz is risky. AJ, who has been a favorite player of mine since 2005, is clearly on the decline. He came across as so average last year.

I won't suggest that Paulie will have the same success that he had last season, but I don't expect him to lay an egg like Jeter or Derick Lee did last year. I'd hate to lose his offensive production, especially since we already did have a hard time bringing in runs.

I vote to keep Paulie and for at least one more year, if not longer, retain the face of our franchise.

Railsplitter
11-25-2010, 12:46 PM
Paulie

Though if Paulie comes back, he'll probably end at DH more than first base.

TheCommander
11-25-2010, 02:04 PM
Yep. And Magglio was the face of the franchise before Paul

:hurt
*Cough BULL**** Cough*

guillensdisciple
11-25-2010, 03:08 PM
None, it's time to go in a new direction.

Nellie_Fox
11-26-2010, 12:45 AM
Wasnt Viciendo a possibility as Paulie successor at first? He seems to have the bat.Not unless he develops some semblance of discipline at the plate he doesn't.

Dan H
11-27-2010, 09:41 AM
I say keep Konerko, but that is only my heart speaking. It will be a sad day when he leaves the organization even if someone with similar skills replaces him.

gobears1987
11-27-2010, 01:13 PM
Viciedo is definitely not major league ready. Aside from his problematic defense, he needs to be able to take a pitch. If the Sox lose PK, they need someone who can be a rock in the middle of the line-up and Viciedo is not that right now. Viciedo needs regular at bats in Charlotte so that he can train his eye to take pitches. Two BBs in 104 PAs won't cut it. He's young so he definitely has time to develop into a fine player. He may one day become a useful player, but he sure isn't there yet.

RCWHITESOX
11-30-2010, 12:26 AM
AJ doesn't even belong in the conversation. Your choices are a guy who re-established himself as a top flight reliever, a guy who finished top 5 in MVP voting, and an overpaid league average catcher who isn't even in the top 8-10 at his position let alone overall.

Konerko edges out Putz because its harder to replace 100 RBI's then 100 good innings in the pen.

I have to disagree. AJ's value is keeping the pitching staff in line. I'm sure if you asked the pitching staff they would sure know his value. I really hope they somehow manage to keep all 3.

MetroPD
11-30-2010, 05:56 AM
I have to disagree. AJ's value is keeping the pitching staff in line. I'm sure if you asked the pitching staff they would sure know his value. I really hope they somehow manage to keep all 3.
Like he kept our middle relievers and closers in line? Our starting pitching is quite good with or without AJ. Lets not forget that 2nd base is pretty much a free pass to any runner who reaches first. While AJ is a good catcher I don't see him being the franchise star some people think he is.

Nellie_Fox
11-30-2010, 11:24 AM
While AJ is a good catcher I don't see him being the franchise star some people think he is.NOBODY has said he's a "franchise star." What a lot of people have said is that they don't see a better option right now.

slavko
11-30-2010, 12:38 PM
Konerko is the obvious choice, but not $60M/4. Viciedo is the future at 1B. If Paul wants 4 year w/no trade it's a problem.

JermaineDye05
11-30-2010, 05:41 PM
Link (http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/news/story?id=5866112&campaign=rss&source=MLBHeadlines)

AJ says Sox would be his first choice.

Then again, on a radio interview, it's not like he's going to say the Sox would be his second or third choice.

EndemicSox
11-30-2010, 06:42 PM
Putz.

I don't expect Paulie to reproduce what he did last year. AJ is quite fungible despite the blind love people have for him. I don't have much issue with neither returning.

Agreed, Paulie probably wont sniff those numbers ever again, classic contract year breakout in the hopes of landing a big deal, not worth the risk at his age either...BUT, if he would take 10-12 million for 3-4 years, I'd be all over that, and so would the Sox. If he starts asking for $15+ per AND years? No way, you pay the 26 year old who just put up a career year, but unless Paulie wants to sign for 1 year, which would probably guarantee "All-Star" Paulie, years and money 'aint worth the risk, especially given what Konerko had put up the three years prior when he wasn't playing for a new contract(OPS average around 110 versus his best ever 158 last year...which almost seems flukish, out of nowhere, but then again, it was his contract year and he was motivated to the max)...

JermaineDye05
11-30-2010, 07:31 PM
Putz declined

soxinem1
11-30-2010, 10:19 PM
Putz declined

Looks like PK is too, according to MLB Trade Rumors.