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DirtySox
11-21-2010, 11:33 PM
We are coming up on one of the most significant offseason dates. The deadline for teams to offer arbitration to players who filed for free agency is November 23rd at Midnight EST. The players offered arbitration have until November 30th to accept or decline.

The White Sox will have to decide whether to offer arbitration to 4 impending free agents that qualify for compensation.

-Paul Konerko: Type A

-AJ Pierzynski: Type A

-Manny Ramirez: Type A

-JJ Putz: Type B

Manny will assuredly not be offered arbitration, as he will almost certainly accept and be awarded significantly more than his market value.

Konerko will very likely be offered arbitration as he seems intent on exploring the free agent market for a multi-year contract. The organization probably wouldn't mind him accepting either.

Putz will also likely be offered arbitration as he stands to test the market for a multi-year deal and will have many suitors. Even if he does accept arbitration, it would be beneficial to the Sox as they have bullpen holes to fill.

AJ is the wildcard and warrants the most discussion. The Sox obviously have an opening at the catcher position so one would think offering arbitration would be a win-win situation. Either he returns at near market value for 1 year, or the Sox receive compensatory picks if he declines and eventually signs elsewhere. Some seem to think that AJ accepting and thereby receiving around $6 million would substantially hinder the club in making further moves, thus making it a very risky move.

Any potential draft pick compensation would be quite valuable in a very strong 2011 draft class, especially considering the state of the farm system. It is also potentially useful to recoup any draft picks the Sox would lose for signing a Type A free agent this offseason. Since the White Sox first round pick (23rd) falls outside the protected range, the pick would be forfeited in any Type A signing (Dunn?). Either way, Tuesday will play a big part in how the offseason shapes up. The decision to offer arbitration to AJ could be quite telling in how Kenny goes about shaping the rest of the roster.

Feel free to weigh in on the AJ issue.

DirtySox
11-21-2010, 11:40 PM
Here is a quick primer on the FA arbitration/compensation system:

A player who accepts arbitration is considered "signed" by his former team at a salary determined by an arbitration panel at a later date unless an agreement is reached between the team and player before the scheduled hearing date. Very few potential free agents accept arbitration. In 2008, only 2 of 24 free agents accepted arbitration. In 2009, 3 of 23 accepted. This is in large part due to how selective teams are in offering. Generally, an offer is only extended to a player if it is almost certain he will test the market, or if that player is still very desirable to his previous club at a reasonable amount of money. A player who declines arbitration is free to explore free agency as he wishes, though a Type A maintains the stigma of draft pick forfeiture.

Potential free agents are ranked as Type A, Type B, or nothing. Free agent type is determined by a formula generated by the Elias Sports Bureau. Players are separated into the following groups:

Group 1: 1B, OF, DH
Group 2: 2B, 3B, SS
Group 3: C
Group 4: SP
Group 5: RP

All active MLB players are thereby ranked through the formula using varying metrics from the previous 2 seasons, depending on group. Those players that filed for free agency are then compared to all other players present at their position. If a player is in the top 20% of his position, he is considered a "Type A." A player that is outside the top 20%, but inside the top 40% are classified as "Type B."

The two free agent types are noteworthy because of potential draft pick compensation and forfeiture. A team will be awarded draft pick compensation if they offer arbitration to a qualifying impending free agent, and the player declines and proceeds to sign elsewhere.

- a declining Type A will award his former team the 1st round pick (if unprotected) of the eventual signing team, as well as a pick in the supplemental round (between round 1 and 2). If the 1st round pick of the signing team falls in the top 18 picks (protected), the signing team forfeits its 2nd round pick instead.

- a declining Type B results in the former team receiving a draft pick in the supplemental round when the player signs elsewhere. The signing team does not forfeit any draft selection.



*Note: Normally the top 15 picks in the 1st round are protected. This year the top 18 are protected as 3 teams failed to sign their 1st round picks from the previous year.*

DumpJerry
11-22-2010, 12:01 AM
AJ is the wildcard and warrants the most discussion.
Only among those who hate him. The Sox would be fools to not offer him Arb. It's a win/win for them. If he accepts, they get an experienced Catcher. If he rejects, they get a first round compensation pick from the Texas Rangers who clearly did not finish in the bottom half of MLB in 2010.

DirtySox
11-22-2010, 12:05 AM
Only among those who hate him. The Sox would be fools to not offer him Arb. It's a win/win for them. If he accepts, they get an experienced Catcher. If he rejects, they get a first round compensation pick from the Texas Rangers who clearly did not finish in the bottom half of MLB in 2010.

Hey now. I'm not a big AJ fan, but I also think it's a no-brainer to offer him arbitration. Especially after Buck signs a 3 year/16 million deal. It has been discussed a bit previously and I'm curious to see if anyone who was against offering have changed their minds.

russ99
11-22-2010, 09:40 AM
I'd offer arb to everyone but Manny.

Not sure if this is correct, but if arb is accepted and they go to a hearing, isn't that a one-year deal? That may be a less expensive way to keep a guy for one more year.
Probably moot, since I doubt anyone accepts based on Buck's and Benoit's deals.

Also, do we know when the non-tender deadline is? Usually it's mid-December, but everything's moved up this year.

I think a big part what the Sox can or can't do this offseason depends on what they do with Jenks.

Lyle Mouton
11-22-2010, 09:48 AM
You couldn't non-tender Jenks fast enough. Get him the hell out of here.

LoveYourSuit
11-22-2010, 10:16 AM
You couldn't non-tender Jenks fast enough. Get him the hell out of here.


I agree. Most of the bullpen meltdowns post 2005 have been lead by his inability to stay healthy. Then you start moving guys out of their roles, it goes down hill from there.


I would rather get a guy less dominant in there but who can stay healthy for the long run. Although I would also question Jenks ability to be dominant these days too.


So for $8 million, no thanks.

DumpJerry
11-22-2010, 10:41 AM
I'd offer arb to everyone but Manny.

Not sure if this is correct, but if arb is accepted and they go to a hearing, isn't that a one-year deal? That may be a less expensive way to keep a guy for one more year.
There's a psychological price for taking a player to a hearing. The team's position at the hearing is "this guy kinda sucks, he's not worth what he wants." That is why so many players sign right before the hearing.

soxinem1
11-22-2010, 11:02 AM
Only among those who hate him. The Sox would be fools to not offer him Arb. It's a win/win for them. If he accepts, they get an experienced Catcher. If he rejects, they get a first round compensation pick from the Texas Rangers who clearly did not finish in the bottom half of MLB in 2010.

I totally agree.

While we would like to have a more complete catcher, there are very few of them around, not to mention available.

The catcher pool to pick from is one of the most unimpressive I have ever seen this year, and it also seems obvious that Tyler Flowers is a reincarnation of Joel Skinner and not ready now, if ever, for prime time.

Additionally, by in large the starting pitchers will remain. I'm not sure if it is smart to keep a veteran staff and plug in some scrubs just because KW is afraid to give AJ a contract.

I could hear Peavy already complaining if he had a crappy catcher to throw to.

After Konerko leaves, with Morel and Viciedo already in the lineup, there will be enough question marks.

There's a psychological price for taking a player to a hearing. The team's position at the hearing is "this guy kinda sucks, he's not worth what he wants." That is why so many players sign right before the hearing.

Another excellent point, however accepting keeps them around.

Lyle Mouton
11-22-2010, 11:02 AM
There's a psychological price for taking a player to a hearing. The team's position at the hearing is "this guy kinda sucks, he's not worth what he wants." That is why so many players sign right before the hearing.
Or their position is, "look at the established salary precedent for players with similar statistics at the same position."

DirtySox
11-22-2010, 11:45 AM
Also, do we know when the non-tender deadline is? Usually it's mid-December, but everything's moved up this year.

December 2nd.

russ99
11-22-2010, 12:07 PM
December 2nd.

Cool. I'd think the only reason the Sox would wait until then on Jenks is the possibility that Kenny's trying to deal him first.

DirtySox
11-22-2010, 12:19 PM
Cool. I'd think the only reason the Sox would wait until then on Jenks is the possibility that Kenny's trying to deal him first.

Indeed. Not sure how that would work though. I'd assume teams have interest in acquiring control of Bobby, but not at what he would make through arbitration.

hi im skot
11-22-2010, 12:27 PM
I could hear Peavy already complaining if he had a crappy catcher to throw to.


Does Peavy have any sort of track record that would suggest he would do such a thing?

doublem23
11-22-2010, 12:29 PM
Does Peavy have any sort of track record that would suggest he would do such a thing?

Yeah, he makes a lot of money and got hurt... THE JERK

hi im skot
11-22-2010, 12:38 PM
Yeah, he makes a lot of money and got hurt... THE JERK

Well played.

I love the blind hatred people have for him.

GoGoCrede
11-22-2010, 01:00 PM
Does Peavy have any sort of track record that would suggest he would do such a thing?


No, he doesn't. Jeez, just because he comes off as a fierce competitor doesn't mean he's an ass to his teammates. I don't get the blind hatred people have for him.

DirtySox
11-22-2010, 01:05 PM
Phil Rogers doesn't think the Sox will offer arbitration to AJ. Phil Rogers is an excellent and well-respected journalist.

hi im skot
11-22-2010, 02:36 PM
No, he doesn't. Jeez, just because he comes off as a fierce competitor doesn't mean he's an ass to his teammates. I don't get the blind hatred people have for him.

Exactly the point I was trying to make.

Balfanman
11-22-2010, 02:49 PM
Phil Rogers doesn't think the Sox will offer arbitration to AJ. Phil Rogers is an excellent and well-respected journalist.

:?:

Domeshot17
11-22-2010, 02:54 PM
I don't get the Peavy hate at all. The guy is a great teammate. The only thing he has said was if the Sox go into full rebuild mode he would like to be dealt as winning was why he waived his NTC to play here. Nothing wrong with that.

DirtySox
11-22-2010, 03:02 PM
I don't like Jake Peavy, but I have no grounds to speak on him as a teammate since I don't know **** about it.

/Continues thread derail

Moses_Scurry
11-22-2010, 03:18 PM
I think the blind hate is because he stunk for all starts except a couple and then got injured.

I don't hate him, but I regret the trade. Hindsight 20/20 thing.

CPditka
11-23-2010, 03:25 PM
After the V-Mart and Buck signings, we really need to offer Arb. to AJ (he should decline). I wouldnt mind Paulie as well. Win-Win on Paulie, picks or another year (albiet at an inflated salary)

keloms
11-23-2010, 04:04 PM
From Paula Faris on NBC 5

NBC5 confirms White Sox have declined arbitration on Catcher AJ Pierzynski.

Sox, however, have offered arbitration to 1B Paul Konerko.

DirtySox
11-23-2010, 04:08 PM
Putz was offered as well.

dickallen15
11-23-2010, 04:09 PM
Not offering arb doesn't mean what it used to mean. The Sox can still negotiate with AJP should they want to. It used to basically mean.......he gone.

downstairs
11-23-2010, 04:14 PM
I don't get the Peavy hate at all. The guy is a great teammate. The only thing he has said was if the Sox go into full rebuild mode he would like to be dealt as winning was why he waived his NTC to play here. Nothing wrong with that.

I, and probably most other posters here, don't hate HIM. They hate the situation. I'm sure he's a nice guy, but the deal thus far is a failure.

AzureJazzMan
11-23-2010, 04:25 PM
Arrrrrgggghhhh!!!!! This makes absolutely NO SENSE that they would NOT offer arbitration to AJ! There is NO EXCUSE for this at all!!! The draft PICKS alone should have slam dunked it, with the ridiculous contracts signed by Buck and Martinez!!! :angry::angry::angry:

seventyseven
11-23-2010, 04:33 PM
phil rogers is an excellent and well-respected journalist.


hahahahahhahahahahaahahaa

CPditka
11-23-2010, 04:34 PM
Arrrrrgggghhhh!!!!! This makes absolutely NO SENSE that they would NOT offer arbitration to AJ! There is NO EXCUSE for this at all!!! The draft PICKS alone should have slam dunked it, with the ridiculous contracts signed by Buck and Martinez!!! :angry::angry::angry:



agreed completely.

beasly213
11-23-2010, 04:49 PM
Arrrrrgggghhhh!!!!! This makes absolutely NO SENSE that they would NOT offer arbitration to AJ! There is NO EXCUSE for this at all!!! The draft PICKS alone should have slam dunked it, with the ridiculous contracts signed by Buck and Martinez!!! :angry::angry::angry:


Huh? They probably did this because they didn't want him to accept it. They probably assume they can sign him for less than he would have gotten in arbitration.

CPditka
11-23-2010, 05:10 PM
Huh? They probably did this because they didn't want him to accept it. They probably assume they can sign him for less than he would have gotten in arbitration.



If we dont sign him the origination will have a lot of egg on our face.

MisterB
11-23-2010, 05:14 PM
It makes perfect sense if they want to sign him for less than $5.4M in 2011, which is the minimum they could sign him for if they offered arbitration.

doublem23
11-23-2010, 05:15 PM
If we dont sign him the origination will have a lot of egg on our face.

Not really, it's not like AJ's that impossible to replace these days. I mean, I guess he hits left-handed, otherwise, he bats a soft .250 and can't throw runners out. Somehow, the franchise will survive.

I would much rather resolve the situation with Konerko before worrying about Pierzynski.

beasly213
11-23-2010, 05:27 PM
Not really, it's not like AJ's that impossible to replace these days. I mean, I guess he hits left-handed, otherwise, he bats a soft .250 and can't throw runners out. Somehow, the franchise will survive.

I would much rather resolve the situation with Konerko before worrying about Pierzynski.

Big time. I still am holding out hope that PK will be back with the Sox.

Sargeant79
11-23-2010, 05:35 PM
I saw the Braves declined to offer arbitration to Derrek Lee. Anyone else think that might help put him in the running to be the White Sox 2011 first baseman?

SoxSpeed22
11-23-2010, 05:51 PM
I saw the Braves declined to offer arbitration to Derrek Lee. Anyone else think that might help put him in the running to be the White Sox 2011 first baseman?
Lee is 34, and looks like he's starting to slow down. A 2 year deal could work for him. He had a great 2009 and will work just fine in a 1B/ DH spot. We will still have to solve the left handed bat, but we could do worse than Lee.

MISoxfan
11-23-2010, 06:08 PM
Not really, it's not like AJ's that impossible to replace these days. I mean, I guess he hits left-handed, otherwise, he bats a soft .250 and can't throw runners out. Somehow, the franchise will survive.

I would much rather resolve the situation with Konerko before worrying about Pierzynski.

A soft .250? He's never even hit that low in his entire career. I should start talking about how he hit .290 last season, its just as close to the truth.

MetroPD
11-23-2010, 06:51 PM
Not really, it's not like AJ's that impossible to replace these days. I mean, I guess he hits left-handed, otherwise, he bats a soft .250 and can't throw runners out. Somehow, the franchise will survive.

I would much rather resolve the situation with Konerko before worrying about Pierzynski.
Spot on 100%
I saw the Braves declined to offer arbitration to Derrek Lee. Anyone else think that might help put him in the running to be the White Sox 2011 first baseman?
What does Lee offer that PK doesn't?

WhiteSox5187
11-23-2010, 06:55 PM
If we dont sign him the origination will have a lot of egg on our face.

That possibility has never stopped the Sox before. I really think we're going to have Tyler Flowers as our starting catcher next year.

LoveYourSuit
11-23-2010, 07:00 PM
Not really, it's not like AJ's that impossible to replace these days. I mean, I guess he hits left-handed, otherwise, he bats a soft .250 and can't throw runners out. Somehow, the franchise will survive.

I would much rather resolve the situation with Konerko before worrying about Pierzynski.


Please remember AJ is one of those Folk Hero creations by us Sox fans despite the guy being very average at baseball.

Marqhead
11-23-2010, 07:05 PM
Please remember AJ is one of those Folk Hero creations by us Sox fans despite the guy being very average at baseball.

I don't think it's so much that as, what better options are out there? If you let AJ get away and end up with a worse option at C next year, I'll be a little upset.

stevemcstud
11-23-2010, 07:40 PM
I would rather have Dayan at 1B than sign Lee, factoring the salary plus potential stats.

Dayan could easily put together a year where he hits .265 25 HR 85 RBI where Lee put together a .260 19 HR 80 RBI.

It is different with Paulie because he had a monster year that Dayan can not duplicate.

Domeshot17
11-23-2010, 08:05 PM
You can't offer AJ arbitration. He is a league average catcher. Offering him means you put a 1 year deal for 6.5-7 mil on the table. We don't want AJ at that price. When he gets a few offers for 2 years at 2 or 3 mil per year, why would he take them when he can make 7 mil in 1 year.

AJ is an aging, declining catcher. He isn't the leader with this group he was with the 05-06 players. Offensively he is easily replaceable, he is a very SMART baseball player, but defensively he is below average.

Daver
11-23-2010, 08:08 PM
That possibility has never stopped the Sox before. I really think we're going to have Tyler Flowers as our starting catcher next year.

That promises to be a hoot.

Noneck
11-23-2010, 08:11 PM
Dayan could easily put together a year where he hits .265 25 HR 85 RBI where Lee put together a .260 19 HR 80 RBI.



And Lee will have a .350 OBP and Viciedo will have one of .270. I would say .265 but he is bound to get hit by a pitch or two.

JermaineDye05
11-23-2010, 08:13 PM
And Lee will have a .350 OBP and Viciedo will have one of .270. I would say .265 but he is bound to get hit by a pitch or two.

I don't know, he'd probably swing at those too.

Noneck
11-23-2010, 08:15 PM
I don't know, he'd probably swing at those too.

Yea, probably so.

russ99
11-23-2010, 08:15 PM
Please remember AJ is one of those Folk Hero creations by us Sox fans despite the guy being very average at baseball.

Compared to who?

I can count on half a hand the AL teams that have better regular catchers than us, based on any factor.

A.J. is below average at throwing runners out. Every other measurable thing he's above average compared to other players at the position, even more so at the things that aren't measurable.

Sure he's getting older, but before his first half slump (that could have been cause by Dye-like contract-related stress) he was one of the most consistent hitters out there.

It seems that in this era some are so in love with home run hitters, they forget what constitutes a good hitter.

Thome25
11-23-2010, 08:33 PM
Compared to who?

I can count on half a hand the AL teams that have better regular catchers than us, based on any factor.

A.J. is below average at throwing runners out. Every other measurable thing he's above average compared to other players at the position, even more so at the things that aren't measurable.

Sure he's getting older, but before his first half slump (that could have been cause by Dye-like contract-related stress) he was one of the most consistent hitters out there.

It seems that in this era some are so in love with home run hitters, they forget what constitutes a good hitter.

Well said. Anyone who says AJ is an average player just does not know what they're talking about.

AJ is easily rated a top 5 player at his position even at his advanced age and somewhat declining skills. That in and of itself suggests that he is more than an average player.

But, considering the source it doesn't surprise me at all.

kittle42
11-23-2010, 09:06 PM
AJ is easily rated a top 5 player at his position even at his advanced age and somewhat declining skills. That in and of itself suggests that he is more than an average player.

I just looked at the numbers (yes, I know the numbers don't say nearly everything), and there is surprisingly a very good argument for this.

WhiteSox5187
11-23-2010, 09:07 PM
Well said. Anyone who says AJ is an average player just does not know what they're talking about.

AJ is easily rated a top 5 player at his position even at his advanced age and somewhat declining skills. That in and of itself suggests that he is more than an average player.

But, considering the source it doesn't surprise me at all.

In a vacuum based solely on offensive numbers, AJ is average. When one considers his position and how he handles the staff, the number of passed balls, etc. he becomes above average. He also had his best year in terms of throwing out base runners since 2003.

Daver
11-23-2010, 09:08 PM
Well said. Anyone who says AJ is an average player just does not know what they're talking about.

AJ is easily rated a top 5 player at his position even at his advanced age and somewhat declining skills. That in and of itself suggests that he is more than an average player.

But, considering the source it doesn't surprise me at all.

There is no way you can spin it that makes AJ a good defensive catcher, he isn't. He is a smart ballplayer, smarter than most, but let's not start spinning tales about his defensive ability.

And bringing offensive stats in to support a debate about the what is truly a defensive position does'nt add much to the debate.

soxinem1
11-23-2010, 09:36 PM
Like AJ or not, I would like to hear his detractors tell us who should replace him.

Please tell me who the feasable trade or FA options are before we are so quick to toss him to the curb.

Additionally, KW has been very weak in filling this position for half of his GM tenure, other than signing AJ. His other trades and signings for this position since he became GM in 2000 were all weak and attempts to catch lightning in a bottle.

Consider this: AJ is the only catcher since Ron Karkovice, and just the second since Carlton Fisk to even have one 400 AB season. That tells a lot.

And while I agree AJ is below par throwing wise, having caught the likes of Garcia, Contreras, El Duque, Peavy (and virtually every reliever), all guys who have no clue how to hold runners, he his solid enough in his other defensive attributes that he should remain our starting catcher.

Sargeant79
11-23-2010, 09:54 PM
What does Lee offer that PK doesn't?

Probably about 5-6 million in 2011 salary savings, and he might come on a 1 or 2 year deal. Paulie will probably get at least a 3 year offer from somebody.

I'm not advocating it...just throwing the question out there. Lee still plays very good defense and probably has another solid offensive year or two in him. If he comes on a 1 or 2 year deal at $5-7 million per, that's not too bad.

I'm guessing Konerko gets at least $10 million per year from someone, and the Sox probably aren't in a position to pay that AND fill all the holes on the roster. And while I don't expect it, it's entirely possible that Konerko's numbers start to decline pretty swiftly over the next few years. Remember, Konerko had probably the best offensive year of his career last year. That's not likely to be duplicated.

DumpJerry
11-23-2010, 10:34 PM
The Sox probably declined on AJ figuring he would be 2010's Jermaine Dye who can be gotten for less than the Arb. price.

Domeshot17
11-23-2010, 11:04 PM
Well said. Anyone who says AJ is an average player just does not know what they're talking about.

AJ is easily rated a top 5 player at his position even at his advanced age and somewhat declining skills. That in and of itself suggests that he is more than an average player.

But, considering the source it doesn't surprise me at all.

Just to be clear:

You would take AJ over Mauer-Posey-Mccann-Victor Martinez-Soto-Napoli-Miguel Montero- and even Carlos Santana or Posada and Ruiz?

I think that list is mostly no brainers, with a couple toss ups (guy like Montero's upside but injury history, Santana being young etc).

Pretty much the only thing outside baseball IQ that makes AJ truly valuable beyond an average catcher is his durability, and no one has brought that up really. He doesn't "call a good game" because the bench calls the game. You can blame every pitcher the Sox ever had, but it doesn't change the fact AJ still is a free pass to 2b. In terms of measurables, he doesn't do anything great, and only a few things good. What he provides in baseball IQ, a catcher with a good arm would make up for in stolen bases cut down and an offensive catcher would make up for in production.

This isn't 2005, AJ isn't likely to bounce back. The same way guys got tired of Thome hitting homers or nothing, I am tired of watching AJ popping a ball up to the 2b and then slamming his bat down in the ground like hes really mad. I know everyone thinks AJ had a good 2nd half, but the guy had a .718 OPS, and 3 less homers than his first half. Home runs are not the end all be all of offense, but neither is batting average.

On top of it all, it just doesn't feel like he relates well to the newer guys on the team. I think if you let Konerko go, you have to let AJ go to break away from 2005. You are probably stuck with Burls until the deal runs out because no one is going to touch him at 15 mil, but sometimes change can be good.

Personally, if you replacements, look at buy low candidates like Ryan Doumit. Guy is basically what AJ was a few years ago. The Pirates just dealt for Chris Snyder and with that money hes gotta play. Salary wise probably costs half of what AJ was and does a lot more.

thomas35forever
11-23-2010, 11:18 PM
That possibility has never stopped the Sox before. I really think we're going to have Tyler Flowers as our starting catcher next year.
Hell no. If he's our catcher, we might as well start looking forward to 2012. I do not want Tyler Flowers anywhere near the big league roster.

KMcMahon817
11-23-2010, 11:25 PM
Just to be clear:

You would take AJ over Mauer-Posey-Mccann-Victor Martinez-Soto-Napoli-Miguel Montero- and even Carlos Santana or Posada and Ruiz?

I think that list is mostly no brainers, with a couple toss ups (guy like Montero's upside but injury history, Santana being young etc).

Pretty much the only thing outside baseball IQ that makes AJ truly valuable beyond an average catcher is his durability, and no one has brought that up really. He doesn't "call a good game" because the bench calls the game. You can blame every pitcher the Sox ever had, but it doesn't change the fact AJ still is a free pass to 2b. In terms of measurables, he doesn't do anything great, and only a few things good. What he provides in baseball IQ, a catcher with a good arm would make up for in stolen bases cut down and an offensive catcher would make up for in production.

This isn't 2005, AJ isn't likely to bounce back. The same way guys got tired of Thome hitting homers or nothing, I am tired of watching AJ popping a ball up to the 2b and then slamming his bat down in the ground like hes really mad. I know everyone thinks AJ had a good 2nd half, but the guy had a .718 OPS, and 3 less homers than his first half. Home runs are not the end all be all of offense, but neither is batting average.

On top of it all, it just doesn't feel like he relates well to the newer guys on the team. I think if you let Konerko go, you have to let AJ go to break away from 2005. You are probably stuck with Burls until the deal runs out because no one is going to touch him at 15 mil, but sometimes change can be good.

Personally, if you replacements, look at buy low candidates like Ryan Doumit. Guy is basically what AJ was a few years ago. The Pirates just dealt for Chris Snyder and with that money hes gotta play. Salary wise probably costs half of what AJ was and does a lot more.

Doumit would be a decent option. Although, AJ may be cheaper. Doumit will probably make close to 6 million in arbitration this year. That 2 or 3 million really shouldn't make much of a difference, but it always seems to with KW's preseason budgets.

Hitmen77
11-23-2010, 11:57 PM
Not really, it's not like AJ's that impossible to replace these days. I mean, I guess he hits left-handed, otherwise, he bats a soft .250 and can't throw runners out. Somehow, the franchise will survive.

I would much rather resolve the situation with Konerko before worrying about Pierzynski.

What other option would the Sox be able to get as our starting catcher?.....and I'm talking about someone who would be an acceptable starting catcher for a competitive ballclub (in other words, not Tyler Flowers).

KenBerryGrab
11-24-2010, 08:25 AM
And Lee will have a .350 OBP ....

No, he won't. He has to cheat to get to any sort of inside fastball. The tank is near E on that guy.

LITTLE NELL
11-24-2010, 09:22 AM
It looks to me that the Sox are down on AJ and it has to be because of his throwing arm. I'm curious if there is a stat on catchers who fail to throw out a runner trying to steal and that runner comes around to score because of that steal. Now if a guy steals 2nd and the next guy hits a triple or a HR I don't think that would count in that stat.

CPditka
11-24-2010, 09:54 AM
Not really, it's not like AJ's that impossible to replace these days. I mean, I guess he hits left-handed, otherwise, he bats a soft .250 and can't throw runners out. Somehow, the franchise will survive.

I would much rather resolve the situation with Konerko before worrying about Pierzynski.


I agree hes not impossible to replace. Thats the point, more than likely he would not accept arb. (Namely because of the outrageous Buck and V-Mart deals) the catcher market is very thin, and someone would offer him a multi year deal. Thus making a 1 year Arb deal w/ the Sox unappealing. He would decline and we would get 2 picks (type A). Our farm sucks, we need it.

And like you said, we can replace him.

Domeshot17
11-24-2010, 09:56 AM
I agree hes not impossible to replace. Thats the point, more than likely he would not accept arb. (Namely because of the outrageous Buck and V-Mart deals) the catcher market is very thin, and someone would offer him a multi year deal. Thus making a 1 year Arb deal w/ the Sox unappealing. He would decline and we would get 2 picks (type A). Our farm sucks, we need it.

And like you said, we can replace him.

No one is going to pay AJ 6.5-7 mil per year. That is what we would have HAD to pay him. It makes far too much sense for him to take the deal where he makes in 1 year what most teams will offer him over the life 2 and hope the economy turns around and he builds his value up over this season.

CPditka
11-24-2010, 05:52 PM
No one is going to pay AJ 6.5-7 mil per year. That is what we would have HAD to pay him. It makes far too much sense for him to take the deal where he makes in 1 year what most teams will offer him over the life 2 and hope the economy turns around and he builds his value up over this season.


We'll have to agree to disagree on this point. I think someone would have paid him. Or more importantly. AJ would have thought someone would pay him.

DirtySox
11-30-2010, 07:36 PM
http://a1.twimg.com/profile_images/934235221/Maria2_normal.jpg
scottmerkin (http://twitter.com/#%21/scottmerkin) Scott Merkin
Putz has officially declined arbitration.
5 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/#%21/scottmerkin/status/9766370992455680)
http://a2.twimg.com/profile_images/1170850498/DSCN1905_normal.JPG
ChuckGarfien (http://twitter.com/#%21/ChuckGarfien) Chuck Garfien
Just got off phone with J-J Putz. He declined arbitration from #WhiteSox (http://twitter.com/#%21/search?q=%23WhiteSox). Has had preliminary talks with 8 or 9 teams, including Sox.
28 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/#%21/ChuckGarfien/status/9760847354142720)


As expected.

JermaineDye05
11-30-2010, 07:38 PM
Putz also said that he's had discussions with the Sox.

JermaineDye05
11-30-2010, 07:40 PM
Cowley saying a source said that Konerko declined too.

So what does that mean for the Sox draft wise?

DirtySox
11-30-2010, 07:41 PM
Cowley saying a source said that Konerko declined too.

So what does that mean for the Sox draft wise?

Nothing until they sign somewhere else.

If Putz signs elsewhere, the Sox will receive a Supplemental pick between the 1st and 2nd round.

If Konerko signs elsewhere the Sox acquire the 1st round pick of the signing team if it doesn't fall in the top 18 picks, and a supplemental pick. If the signing team's 1st round pick falls in the top 18, the Sox receive that team's 2nd round pick and a supplemental pick.

DirtySox
11-30-2010, 11:46 PM
http://a1.twimg.com/profile_images/533041789/Kenny_normal.jpg
Ken_Rosenthal (http://twitter.com/#%21/Ken_Rosenthal) Ken Rosenthal
Union just announced: Only Frasor, Francisco accept arb. LaRoche declines. #BlueJays (http://twitter.com/#%21/search?q=%23BlueJays) #Rangers (http://twitter.com/#%21/search?q=%23Rangers) #Diamondbacks (http://twitter.com/#%21/search?q=%23Diamondbacks). #MLB (http://twitter.com/#%21/search?q=%23MLB)
2 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/#%21/Ken_Rosenthal/status/9829712750710785)
This would indicate Konerko indeed declined.

Rikirk
12-01-2010, 12:03 AM
So if PK declined arb...
Is this a good thing or a bad thing?

DirtySox
12-01-2010, 12:11 AM
So if PK declined arb...
Is this a good thing or a bad thing?

Depends on who you ask and what you want.

Him declining doesn't preclude him from returning to the White Sox. It just means he isn't interested in a 1 year deal at a similar or slightly higher salary then what he made last season.

It also means that the White Sox will receive 2 somewhat high draft picks if he signs elsewhere.