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View Full Version : Sox willing to trade Floyd


Sockinchisox
11-17-2010, 02:01 PM
http://twitter.com/Joelsherman1/status/4971994374209536

JermaineDye05
11-17-2010, 02:03 PM
http://twitter.com/Joelsherman1/status/4971994374209536

Makes sense. I figured he would have been a key part to any deal that might have involved Prince Fielder.

DirtySox
11-17-2010, 02:04 PM
Not surprised. He still has tons of potential and has significant surplus value with his contract. He could fetch a nice return. That opens another hole in the rotation if he is moved though.

KMcMahon817
11-17-2010, 02:10 PM
Not surprised. He still has tons of potential and has significant surplus value with his contract. He could fetch a nice return. That opens another hole in the rotation if he is moved though.

I don't want to create a hole in rotation with the uncertainty around Peavy. I'd rather deal Floyd in June or July when Peavy is back and Sale is stretched out.

With that said, I say hang onto Floyd for one more year at least. He gets a bit more expensive after this season. He is still pretty cheap in 2011.

soltrain21
11-17-2010, 02:11 PM
Makes sense if you plan on signing Garcia for cheap and using Sale while Peavy recovers. Peavy replaces either Garcia or Sale when he comes back.

DumpJerry
11-17-2010, 02:20 PM
http://twitter.com/Joelsherman1/status/4971994374209536
What is this based on? Something he heard from the Sox or a team who would like to get Gavin?

Moses_Scurry
11-17-2010, 03:21 PM
Makes sense if you plan on signing Garcia for cheap and using Sale while Peavy recovers. Peavy replaces either Garcia or Sale when he comes back.

I'm on board with this as long as Floyd gets a good return and the return fills some needs. A rotation of Danks, Buehrle, Jackson, Garcia, and Sale will probably work fine until Peavy comes back. Floyd has a habit of stinking in the early months, so Sale or Garcia can't be much worse. They would just have to be sure they can get Garcia back. They should probably sign him before they trade Floyd away.

PalehosePlanet
11-17-2010, 03:32 PM
Every team should be willing to discuss any of their players. How is this news? Every player has a price.

MtGrnwdSoxFan
11-17-2010, 07:22 PM
Quick, someone hide this thread from GoGoCrede.

But seriously, if there's one starter on this team that's tradeable, it's Floyd. He's young and shows flashes of brilliance, but has a habit of sucking in the opening part of the season and getting hurt at the end.

He's also got a decent contract, so he should be an attractive piece to any team looking for pitching help.

Tragg
11-17-2010, 07:40 PM
Trade him as a piece of a rent? Pass

Boondock Saint
11-17-2010, 08:04 PM
Trade him as a piece of a rent? Pass

The tweet didn't mention any players other than Floyd.

y2j2785
11-17-2010, 08:23 PM
Apparently Rockies are interested

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/11/rockies-inquire-on-justin-upton-gavin-floyd.html

soltrain21
11-17-2010, 08:32 PM
Apparently Rockies are interested

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/11/rockies-inquire-on-justin-upton-gavin-floyd.html

Ian Stewart?

http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm47/GuruSY/BooThisMan.gif

doublem23
11-17-2010, 08:49 PM
Ian Stewart?

http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm47/GuruSY/BooThisMan.gif

Seriously. Floyd may be frustratingly inconsistent (or consistently frustrating) but he's overall a good SP. Ian Stewart for Floyd is a joke.

MtGrnwdSoxFan
11-17-2010, 09:14 PM
Seriously. Floyd may be frustratingly inconsistent (or consistently frustrating) but he's overall a good SP. Ian Stewart for Floyd is a joke.

(Benefit of the doubt mode)

Well, the article doesn't explicitly state that they were going to do a one-for-one swap, it just states that they have interest in each other's players.

PalehosePlanet
11-17-2010, 10:23 PM
Apparently Rockies are interested

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/11/rockies-inquire-on-justin-upton-gavin-floyd.html

The article has a quote from the Rockies owner saying that they would be very reluctant to give up young players in trades. They are supposedly interested in Justin Upton and Gavin Floyd.

Question? Do they expect to land Upton or Gavin by trading older players to acquire them? Good luck with that.

Another rumor that makes no sense.

TDog
11-17-2010, 10:40 PM
The White Sox don't have enough starting pitching as it is.

Brian26
11-18-2010, 11:09 PM
This was reported on the Score around 8pm. Supposedly the Sox are looking at 3B Ian Stewart in exchange for Gavin Floyd.

FWIW.

doublem23
11-18-2010, 11:11 PM
This was reported on the Score around 8pm. Supposedly the Sox are looking at 3B Ian Stewart in exchange for Gavin Floyd.

FWIW.

That was covered in some other thread. All I can say is :puking:

I know Gavin can be a headache, but he's still a good young starter (and it's not like we have a ton of arms lying around) and Ian Stewart is the best you can get for him?

:chunks

Domeshot17
11-18-2010, 11:12 PM
I would think we could do better. Gavin isn't much more than a solid 2 or 3, but Stewart is a sub .250 hitter with a sub .800 ops in Coors. Might as well have kept Josh Fields.

Marqhead
11-18-2010, 11:14 PM
First off, terrible deal.

Second, does this mean the Sox don't have confidence in Morel? How is Stewart with the glove?

Brian26
11-18-2010, 11:14 PM
That was covered in some other thread.


Oops. I see it now. Threads shall merge...

doublem23
11-18-2010, 11:27 PM
I would think we could do better. Gavin isn't much more than a solid 2 or 3, but Stewart is a sub .250 hitter with a sub .800 ops in Coors. Might as well have kept Josh Fields.

Yeah, I'm not expecting Carlos Gonzalez in return, but Stewart is awful. If they want to throw him in a deal just because they hate him and he sucks, fine, whatever, but if he's the centerpiece of your deal, wow, we'd better be giving up a lot less.

WhiteSox5187
11-18-2010, 11:51 PM
Well, I haven't gotten any texts from ESPN which is usually quick to report these things, but this is a terrible trade idea. Flat out terrible.

MtGrnwdSoxFan
11-19-2010, 03:13 AM
Yeah, I'm not expecting Carlos Gonzalez in return, but Stewart is awful. If they want to throw him in a deal just because they hate him and he sucks, fine, whatever, but if he's the centerpiece of your deal, wow, we'd better be giving up a lot less.

Really...he's the beta version of Mark Teahen, only we'd be giving up a LOT more for him. We REALLY want two Mark Teahens on this team? Don't the fans hate having ONE enough?

If this happens, I will officially want Kenny fired. I'm not Floyd's biggest fan, but we can do WORLDS better than this tripe.

Boondock Saint
11-19-2010, 03:20 AM
I would think we could do better. Gavin isn't much more than a solid 2 or 3, but Stewart is a sub .250 hitter with a sub .800 ops in Coors. Might as well have kept Josh Fields.

:bundy

GoGoCrede
11-19-2010, 04:25 AM
:o::shocked::shocked::shocked:

Please God no. Not my Gavin!

asindc
11-19-2010, 08:46 AM
This was reported on the Score around 8pm. Supposedly the Sox are looking at 3B Ian Stewart in exchange for Gavin Floyd.

FWIW.

Do we really know for sure it is the Sox doing the wanting here? Seems more likely that Colorado wants this deal.

Moses_Scurry
11-19-2010, 09:16 AM
Kenny has three more months to trade Floyd. I don't get why he would be in such a hurry. I don't believe that he would trade Floyd for Stewart.

SephClone89
11-19-2010, 09:51 AM
Why would you trade Floyd? Especially with Peavy likely out for the beginning of the season...

doublem23
11-19-2010, 09:54 AM
Why would you trade Floyd? Especially with Peavy likely out for the beginning of the season...

Because there's a litany of holes on this roster and he's one of our few bargaining chips.

aryzner
11-19-2010, 09:56 AM
The proposed deal makes me want to vomit in terror.

russ99
11-19-2010, 10:01 AM
The proposed deal makes me want to vomit in terror.

Scary. How much more would we really get from Stewart than we would out of Morel?

I'm the first one to decry putting rookies in the lineup, but having one of them who's a decent fielder at 3B and batting in the 9 spot won't hurt, when we have so many other holes we need to fill with quality big-league players.

I hope Kenny's smarter than this. But I'm also starting to wonder if Kenny thinks he's smarter than he really is - based on the last few offseasons.

The only other thought is that maybe Kenny's pulling a bait and switch. See what interest there is for a mid-rotation younger starter, then when Danks won't sign an extension, offer Danks and ask for more than teams wanted to give up for Floyd.

Lillian
11-25-2010, 08:34 AM
This is some interesting scouting information on Stewart:

http://sports.espn.go.com/fantasy/baseball/flb/story?page=mlbdk2k1030qrockies

It's surprising to read, from several sources, that he is regarded as a good defensive player. That wasn't the impression that I got reading the posts in this thread. Could we be wrong about his glove?

soltrain21
11-25-2010, 09:53 AM
This is some interesting scouting information on Stewart:

http://sports.espn.go.com/fantasy/baseball/flb/story?page=mlbdk2k1030qrockies

It's surprising to read, from several sources, that he is regarded as a good defensive player. That wasn't the impression that I got reading the posts in this thread. Could we be wrong about his glove?

Still doesn't make sense. Morel would be just as good if not better.

Lillian
11-25-2010, 01:12 PM
Still doesn't make sense. Morel would be just as good if not better.

Yes, Morel is a very good defensive third baseman, but the Sox are looking for a left handed power bat, and Morel is neither left handed, nor a power hitter.

SOXfnNlansing
11-25-2010, 02:09 PM
Stewart strikes out almost 1/3 of his AB's. No thanks.

Tragg
11-25-2010, 03:52 PM
Trading Floyd is fine..there are holes on this roster. But 3b isn't one of them.

gr8mexico
11-25-2010, 05:14 PM
Trading Floyd is fine..there are holes on this roster. But 3b isn't one of them.
True but by trading for Ian Stewart it adds a LH bat and a pretty good defensive player with experience.
Now the Sox can use Morel as a trading chip and use the money that was suppose to go to Gavin to add another bat.
They need to get rid of Quentin and Floyd and over pay for Crawford.
Crawford is a game changer and with an OF of Crawford and Rios the OF will be set.

PalehosePlanet
11-25-2010, 10:00 PM
Still doesn't make sense. Morel would be just as good if not better.

What if the plan is to move Stewart to 1B?

I personally think that Stewart has a chance to be a damn good, all-star caliber, type of player. He has 40 HR a year power potential, and is a pretty good all around athlete with above average speed. He is bull strong, to all fields.

Having said that, however, Gavin is too much to give up considering we'd be trading for Stewart's potential rather than his current production.

I wonder if we can get Stewart for something other than Gavin?

cards press box
11-26-2010, 12:58 PM
What if the plan is to move Stewart to 1B?

I personally think that Stewart has a chance to be a damn good, all-star caliber, type of player. He has 40 HR a year power potential, and is a pretty good all around athlete with above average speed. He is bull strong, to all fields.

Having said that, however, Gavin is too much to give up considering we'd be trading for Stewart's potential rather than his current production.

I wonder if we can get Stewart for something other than Gavin?

I think the concept of moving Ian Stewart to 1B is an excellent one. He has played 3B and some 2B during his career and I suspect that he would play 1B well. Stewart does have big-time power potential and is definitely on the ascent. An infield of Morel at 3B, A. Ramirez at SS, Beckham at 2B and Stewart at 1B could be top notch for a number of years.

If the Rockies give up Stewart, they are going to want Floyd. I agree that a straight up Floyd for Stewart deal tilts too much toward the Rockies. Perhaps the Rockies could throw another player in. Rockie outfielder Dexter Fowler did not have a great year last year but he, too, has a ton of potential and could be fixture in CF for years to come. If the Sox could: (a) pull off a Floyd for Stewart and Fowler deal, (b) sign Hideki Matsui to DH, (c) re-sign AJ and (d) the deal Carlos Quentin for pitching (bullpen help?), the Sox could have the following lineup:

Pierre LF
Beckham 2B
Rios RF
Stewart 1B
A. Ramirez SS
Matsui DH
Morel 3B
AJ C
Fowler CF

If the Sox don't sign Matsui but find a way to bring Paul Konerko back, perhaps this would be the lineup:

Pierre LF
Beckham 2B
Rios RF
Konerko DH
Stewart 1B
A. Ramirez SS
AJ C
Morel 3B
Fowler CF

Any thoughts on all this?

dickallen15
11-26-2010, 01:12 PM
I think the concept of moving Ian Stewart to 1B is an excellent one. He has played 3B and some 2B during his career and I suspect that he would play 1B well. Stewart does have big-time power potential and is definitely on the ascent. An infield of Morel at 3B, A. Ramirez at SS, Beckham at 2B and Stewart at 1B could be top notch for a number of years.

If the Rockies give up Stewart, they are going to want Floyd. I agree that a straight up Floyd for Stewart deal tilts too much toward the Rockies. Perhaps the Rockies could throw another player in. Rockie outfielder Dexter Fowler did not have a great year last year but he, too, has a ton of potential and could be fixture in CF for years to come. If the Sox could: (a) pull off a Floyd for Stewart and Fowler deal, (b) sign Hideki Matsui to DH, (c) re-sign AJ and (d) the deal Carlos Quentin for pitching (bullpen help?), the Sox could have the following lineup:

Pierre LF
Beckham 2B
Rios RF
Stewart 1B
A. Ramirez SS
Matsui DH
Morel 3B
AJ C
Fowler CF

If the Sox don't sign Matsui but find a way to bring Paul Konerko back, perhaps this would be the lineup:

Pierre LF
Beckham 2B
Rios RF
Konerko DH
Stewart 1B
A. Ramirez SS
AJ C
Morel 3B
Fowler CF

Any thoughts on all this?
Did you see Fowler's and Stewart's numbers outside of Coors Field?

PalehosePlanet
11-26-2010, 01:31 PM
Did you see Fowler's and Stewart's numbers outside of Coors Field?

Yes, but maybe you didn't. Stewart 2010: road OPS is .802, home is .757.

He is a typical buy-low, post hype, top notch prospect, that KW goes after (e.g. Danks, Quentin, Floyd, etc...)

dickallen15
11-26-2010, 01:50 PM
Yes, but maybe you didn't. Stewart 2010: road OPS is .802, home is .757.

He is a typical buy-low, post hype, top notch prospect, that KW goes after (e.g. Danks, Quentin, Floyd, etc...)

A couple things, I see you didn't mention Fowler's splits. Also, if its trading Gavin Floyd and his very reasonable contract, how is this a buy-low deal?

Also, Danks wasn't buy low. Brandon McCarthy had a lot of value. Neither was Quentin. Chris Carter is still considered an excellent prospect. Floyd was acquired for Freddy Garcia. What am I missing about these guys being typical buy-low prospects?

PalehosePlanet
11-26-2010, 02:04 PM
A couple things, I see you didn't mention Fowler's splits. Also, if its trading Gavin Floyd and his very reasonable contract, how is this a buy-low deal?

Also, Danks wasn't buy low. Brandon McCarthy had a lot of value. Neither was Quentin. Chris Carter is still considered an excellent prospect. Floyd was acquired for Freddy Garcia. What am I missing about these guys being typical buy-low prospects?

First off, I wasn't advocating Fowler (although not a bad idea), I was saying that I'd like to have Stewart and his potential, but not at the price of Gavin.

Second, yes, all of the players mentioned were buy low. Danks was not pitching well in AA, Floyd was not pitching well for the Phills, and Carlos had a bad sophmore season due to the shoulder injury. All were first round picks and their respective organizations were getting impatient.

Yes, we gave up something to get these guys, but they would have been untouchable had they been performing up to their expectations.

KW tried to do the same thing with Homer Bailey and the Reds a couple of years ago.

CardsPressBox brought Fowler into the conversation because, like me, he likes Stewart but feels that Gavin straight-up is too much for us to give. Thus the Fowler suggestion --- as a conversation piece.

dickallen15
11-26-2010, 02:33 PM
First off, I wasn't advocating Fowler (although not a bad idea), I was saying that I'd like to have Stewart and his potential, but not at the price of Gavin.

Second, yes, all of the players mentioned were buy low. Danks was not pitching well in AA, Floyd was not pitching well for the Phills, and Carlos had a bad sophmore season due to the shoulder injury. All were first round picks and their respective organizations were getting impatient.

Yes, we gave up something to get these guys, but they would have been untouchable had they been performing up to their expectations.

KW tried to do the same thing with Homer Bailey and the Reds a couple of years ago.

CardsPressBox brought Fowler into the conversation because, like me, he likes Stewart but feels that Gavin straight-up is too much for us to give. Thus the Fowler suggestion --- as a conversation piece.
Its not buy low if you are paying a steep price for their services. If Floyd pitched every month like he does June and July, he would not be available. So technically, using the criteria provided, Colorado could say they were buying low, correct? Then each team would be buy low. That doesn't make much sense to me.

PalehosePlanet
11-26-2010, 03:02 PM
Its not buy low if you are paying a steep price for their services. If Floyd pitched every month like he does June and July, he would not be available. So technically, using the criteria provided, Colorado could say they were buying low, correct? Then each team would be buy low. That doesn't make much sense to me.

If you consider Freddy at minus 10 mph on his fastball and at 10 million a year, to much to give up for Gavin and Gio, and a mediocre McCarthy for Danks and Massett, a steep price then you and I have clearly different definitions of the word steep. In fact Freddy was a great salary dump as well at the time.

Carter was a good, not great, single A prospect at 1B at the time of the Quentin trade. Quentin should have cost more. The previous winter 3 Chris Carter's would not have gotten us Quentin.

Now, back to the subject at hand. Since Stewart has not reached his potential and is not a Coors only player -- leaving Gavin out of the equation -- would you want the Sox to acquire him or not?

dickallen15
11-26-2010, 03:06 PM
If you consider Freddy at minus 10 mph on his fastball and at 10 million a year, to much to give up for Gavin and Gio, and a mediocre McCarthy for Danks and Massett, a steep price then you and I have clearly different definitions of the word steep. In fact Freddy was a great salary dump as well at the time.

Carter was a good, not great, single A prospect at 1B at the time of the Quentin trade. Quentin should have cost more. The previous winter 3 Chris Carter's would not have gotten us Quentin.

Now, back to the subject at hand. Since Stewart has not reached his potential and is not a Coors only player -- leaving Gavin out of the equation -- would you want the Sox to acquire him or not?
It depends on the cost. There's a lot more players who never pan out who were supposed to be stars, than actual stars. You can call Freddy and McCarthy mediocre when they were traded, but at that time, they had high value. Very high value. You can't say McCarthy wasn't highly thought of. If Texas didn't offer John Danks, McCarthy probably doesn't get traded.Texas apparently loved him. If Floyd never amounted to much would he have been a no brainer for Philadelphia to trade?

NLaloosh
11-27-2010, 01:08 PM
It's sad that the Sox really have no prospects left to trade to fill their holes so they have to look at trading a very solid young starting pitcher that they really can't afford to lose.

I hope they don't deal him because they have just enough as it is. And, in 2012 they will have even less. Peavy will always be a big question mark and they are stuck with that salary for years.

They have nothing coming up in the minors and it's no sure thing that Sale will be a solid starting pitcher immediately.

cards press box
11-28-2010, 02:25 AM
It's sad that the Sox really have no prospects left to trade to fill their holes . . .

I don't agree. The Sox brought Gordon Beckham, Alexei Ramirez and Brent Morel to the big leagues. That is 3/4 of the Sox infield next year. The Sox also converted Sergio Santos into a pitcher and he is likely the Sox future closer.

Right now, the Sox have a full infield except for 1B and hopefully they re-sign Paul Konerko. They won't need a catcher if they re-sign AJ. The Sox have an outfield of Juan Pierre, Alex Rios and Carlos Quentin. Quentin still has a ton of offensive potential and can be an MVP candidate if he can relax a little bit. The Sox need a DH, that's true, but there a lot of candidates out there that the Sox can probably afford, like Hideki Matsui.

The starting pitching is strong and if the Sox re-sign J.J, Putz, they have the trio of Santos, Putz and Matt Thornton to build around in the bullpen. Linebrink was bad last year but Tony Pena pitched o.k. Yes, the other spots in the bullpen may need some tweaking but that cab be done.

The Sox were an 88 win team last year and don't have a lot of holes that won't be largely filled by signing Konerko, AJ and Putz. Let's see whether the Sox can do so and, if some of those players sign elsewhere, do the Sox have a plan B?

Peavy will always be a big question mark and they are stuck with that salary for years. . . and it's no sure thing that Sale will be a solid starting pitcher immediately.

I disagree on both counts. Peavy has never had an injury similar to the lat muscle tear he had last year. According to the doctors from Rush, Peavy should make a full recovery. So far, the Sox say he is ahead of schedule on his rehabilitation and let's hope that continues. To me, Peavy is similar to Jermaine Dye in that both had unusual injuries that did not foreshadow other unusual but unrelated injuries. Dye worked out well for the Sox and, hopefully, Peavy will, too.

As for Sale, he looked outstanding in the big leagues last year, similar to a young Randy Johnson. I am very optimistic that he will be a #1 pitcher for the White Sox in the near future.

NLaloosh
11-28-2010, 03:17 AM
I don't agree. The Sox brought Gordon Beckham, Alexei Ramirez and Brent Morel to the big leagues. That is 3/4 of the Sox infield next year. The Sox also converted Sergio Santos into a pitcher and he is likely the Sox future closer.

Right now, the Sox have a full infield except for 1B and hopefully they re-sign Paul Konerko. They won't need a catcher if they re-sign AJ. The Sox have an outfield of Juan Pierre, Alex Rios and Carlos Quentin. Quentin still has a ton of offensive potential and can be an MVP candidate if he can relax a little bit. The Sox need a DH, that's true, but there a lot of candidates out there that the Sox can probably afford, like Hideki Matsui.

The starting pitching is strong and if the Sox re-sign J.J, Putz, they have the trio of Santos, Putz and Matt Thornton to build around in the bullpen. Linebrink was bad last year but Tony Pena pitched o.k. Yes, the other spots in the bullpen may need some tweaking but that cab be done.

The Sox were an 88 win team last year and don't have a lot of holes that won't be largely filled by signing Konerko, AJ and Putz. Let's see whether the Sox can do so and, if some of those players sign elsewhere, do the Sox have a plan B?



I disagree on both counts. Peavy has never had an injury similar to the lat muscle tear he had last year. According to the doctors from Rush, Peavy should make a full recovery. So far, the Sox say he is ahead of schedule on his rehabilitation and let's hope that continues. To me, Peavy is similar to Jermaine Dye in that both had unusual injuries that did not foreshadow other unusual but unrelated injuries. Dye worked out well for the Sox and, hopefully, Peavy will, too.

As for Sale, he looked outstanding in the big leagues last year, similar to a young Randy Johnson. I am very optimistic that he will be a #1 pitcher for the White Sox in the near future.

LOL

So, your answer is the Sox are fine as long as they sign Konerko, Putz, A.J. and a good DH! Okay, I agree with that. Only they won"t because they can't afford that.

russ99
11-28-2010, 08:59 AM
LOL

So, your answer is the Sox are fine as long as they sign Konerko, Putz, A.J. and a good DH! Okay, I agree with that. Only they won"t because they can't afford that.

We'll see, it's fairly feasable.

If Paul and A.J. come back at the same salary or a small pay cut for a long term deal, that still leaves $7.5M of Jenks salary to spend.

The Sox could end up a bit more than last year's payroll to re-sign Putz and add a lower cost FA DH like Matsui or Guerrero. If Kenny wants to spend more, he can move Quentin or a starter for a lower-salaried MLB player.

I don't think the Sox are going this route, but you never know.

cards press box
11-28-2010, 09:01 PM
LOL

So, your answer is the Sox are fine as long as they sign Konerko, Putz, A.J. and a good DH! Okay, I agree with that. Only they won"t because they can't afford that.

I don't agree with this, either. As Russ points out, the Sox will likely non-tender Bobby Jenks. Scott Linebrink comes off the books after this season, as do Edwin Jackson and Mark Buerhle. Linebrink won't be back; if the Sox still have Jackson by the end of 2011, they either sign him to a contract for two or more years or offer him arbitration and let him walk; don't know what the Sox will do with Buerhle.

Consequently, the notion of the Sox re-signing Konerko for two or three year deal and AJ for a two year deal does not seem outlandish to me at all. As for adding a good hitting lefty DH, Matsui's contract last year with L.A. was 1 year/$6 million. I think the Sox could afford that, as well as Konerko and AJ.

DirtySox
11-28-2010, 09:32 PM
Consequently, the notion of the Sox re-signing Konerko for two or three year deal and AJ for a two year deal does not seem outlandish to me at all. As for adding a good hitting lefty DH, Matsui's contract last year with L.A. was 1 year/$6 million. I think the Sox could afford that, as well as Konerko and AJ.

I'm not so sure they can afford all 3 players. Many articles this off-season have been throwing around a figure of $15 to $16 million available to spend. Maybe they are incorrect, but I would be quite surprised to see Konerko, AJ, and Matsui all signed unless some salary is shipped out via trade.

NLaloosh
11-28-2010, 10:28 PM
I don't agree with this, either. As Russ points out, the Sox will likely non-tender Bobby Jenks. Scott Linebrink comes off the books after this season, as do Edwin Jackson and Mark Buerhle. Linebrink won't be back; if the Sox still have Jackson by the end of 2011, they either sign him to a contract for two or more years or offer him arbitration and let him walk; don't know what the Sox will do with Buerhle.

Consequently, the notion of the Sox re-signing Konerko for two or three year deal and AJ for a two year deal does not seem outlandish to me at all. As for adding a good hitting lefty DH, Matsui's contract last year with L.A. was 1 year/$6 million. I think the Sox could afford that, as well as Konerko and AJ.

What do Linebrink, Buehrle and Jackson's salaries have to do with anything? We're not talking about 2012. For 2011 there's NO chance that the Sox will sign Putz, Konerko, A.J. and a decent DH without unloading some salary - in addition to the already expected departure of Jenks.

Not a chance their payroll is going up to $ 120 mil. Putz and Konerko will have nice offers to match. And, this year you can't sign Huff or Thome for $ 2 or 3 mil. Prices are much higher. Also, Matsui is a drop off in talent. He doesn't have much left. They need to do better than that,

russ99
11-28-2010, 11:33 PM
What do Linebrink, Buehrle and Jackson's salaries have to do with anything? We're not talking about 2012. For 2011 there's NO chance that the Sox will sign Putz, Konerko, A.J. and a decent DH without unloading some salary - in addition to the already expected departure of Jenks.

Not a chance their payroll is going up to $ 120 mil. Putz and Konerko will have nice offers to match. And, this year you can't sign Huff or Thome for $ 2 or 3 mil. Prices are much higher. Also, Matsui is a drop off in talent. He doesn't have much left. They need to do better than that,

My point was that it was feasable (but unlikely) with the payroll going a bit higher and all players sign a Sox-friendly contract in return for extra years.

If we have to match a competitive market-value offer in order to keep Konerko and Putz, IMO we're not going to re-sign them, which is why we offered arb in the first place, compensation.

I think the Sox should look for a younger but similar producing alternatives for both players, preferably at the same or lower cost.

We ended with a $110M payroll. The only raises given out so far were marginal ones for Thornton and Vizquel, and Manny, A.J., Paul, Putz, Garcia, Kotsay and Jones are off the books with Jenks surely to come off as well. Kenny should have some cash to spend, which is why he made the offer to Victor Martinez.

The Sox don't need to go to $120M to fix this team, staying at or slightly raising it from $110 and being creative will do the trick. Hopefully Jerry isn't dumb enough to both cut payroll and raise ticket prices the same offseason.

cards press box
11-28-2010, 11:42 PM
I'm not so sure they can afford all 3 players. Many articles this off-season have been throwing around a figure of $15 to $16 million available to spend. Maybe they are incorrect, but I would be quite surprised to see Konerko, AJ, and Matsui all signed unless some salary is shipped out via trade.

Do you mean some salary in addition to what the Sox save by non-tendering Jenks?

cards press box
11-29-2010, 12:12 AM
What do Linebrink, Buehrle and Jackson's salaries have to do with anything? We're not talking about 2012.

If the Sox sign Konerko and/or AJ to multi-year deals, salaries could be structured so that the Sox take a greater hit in 2012 than 2011 on those contracts.

Not a chance their payroll is going up to $ 120 mil. Putz and Konerko will have nice offers to match.

I agree that Putz should have a somewhat active market. What is, after all, the going rate for pitchers who could close or pitch set-up? I think the Tiger contract for Benoit was an aberration and some analysts, like Terry Pluto from the Cleveland Plain Dealer, thought the deal was plain dumb (http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/blog/index.ssf/2010/11/terry_plutos_talkin_about_the_25.html). There a lot of set-up men on the market. I don't know what Putz will command.

Is it all clear what kind of market exists for Konerko? I thought the Giants might make an offer but they obviously won't now, as they just re-signed Aubrey Huff for a deal that pays less per year than Konerko's expiring contract. The rumors are that Arizona is not interested in Konerko. Texas is a possibility, I suppose, but I don't think they will outbid the Sox.

And, this year you can't sign Huff or Thome for $ 2 or 3 mil. Prices are much higher. Also, Matsui is a drop off in talent. He doesn't have much left. They need to do better than that,

What is the factual basis for this assumption? There are only so many positions for first basemen and DH's. The market determined the 2009 contracts for both Huff and Thome. Have you noticed the glut of first basemen and DH's in this year's free agent market?

Check out the following first basemen on the market other than Paul Konerko:

Lance Berkman (NYY)
Adam LaRoche (Ariz)
Derek Lee (Atl)
Adam Dunn (Was)
Russell Branyan (Sea)
Troy Glaus (Atl)
Nick Johnson (NYY)
Lyle Overbay (Tor)
Carlos Pena (TB)
Ty Wigginton (Bal)

How about the following DH's

Manny Ramirez (CWS)
Vladimir Guerrero (Tex)
Hideki Matsui (LAA)
Johnny Damon (Det)
Jim Thome (Min)
Magglio Ordonez (Det)
Brad Hawpe (TB)

Pat Burrell, Miguel Tejada and Scott Podsednik are free agents, too. I'm sure there are other non-tendered players that I'm not recalling but no need to belabor the point which is this: the Sox should not have to break the bank to get a lefty hitting DH. The market will play itself out and, in the meantime, the Sox will likely see if they can make a bigger splash. For example, if the Yanks miss out on Cliff Lee, would anybody be shocked if they dealt Curtis Granderson to the Sox for Cliff Floyd? I don't know if the Sox could get one of the Yankee minor league catchers in such a deal but, if they could, that would be nice.

DirtySox
11-29-2010, 12:33 AM
Do you mean some salary in addition to what the Sox save by non-tendering Jenks?

Indeed. It seems to be a foregone conclusion that Jenks is gone. Also, there is much doubt over whether the Sox actually formally offered Victor a contract.

Hopefully I'm wrong, but I really don't get a sense that Kenny has tons of payroll flexibility.

A. Cavatica
11-29-2010, 10:20 PM
For example, if the Yanks miss out on Cliff Lee, would anybody be shocked if they dealt Curtis Granderson to the Sox for Cliff Floyd?

I would be shocked. I didn't even know Cliff Floyd un-retired.

JermaineDye05
11-30-2010, 12:33 AM
Sox would want Stewart and Dexter Fowler.

Link (http://twitter.com/TracyRingolsby/status/9456719818129408)

I like Fowler. I don't know if I like him enough to give up Gavin though. Not when I'm sure we could get more for him.

DirtySox
11-30-2010, 12:35 AM
Sox would want Stewart and Dexter Fowler.

Link (http://twitter.com/TracyRingolsby/status/9456719818129408)

I like Fowler. I don't know if I like him enough to give up Gavin though. Not when I'm sure we could get more for him.

I too like Fowler, but want nothing to do with Stewart.

JermaineDye05
11-30-2010, 12:45 AM
I too like Fowler, but want nothing to do with Stewart.

I think the only thing that's probably accurate in the reports is that the Rockies like Floyd.

I figure that the names that come up are ones that somehow would fit with the Sox.

Stewart isn't necessarily good, but he's probably better than Mark Teahen. People may like Brent Morel better, but the fact is that he's still a question mark.

Sox have a gaping hole at DH and an addition of Fowler would not only improve the outfield defense vastly, but it would then fill the hole at DH with Carlos.

This is in no way advocating the trade. I'm just saying I can see why these names would come up. Whether they are in fact what KW is asking for from the Rockies, if there are in fact talks going on that is, we'll never know until a trade actually happens.

cards press box
11-30-2010, 01:09 AM
I would be shocked. I didn't even know Cliff Floyd un-retired.

Cliff Floyd? What where was my mind drifting? I must have been having a flashback to the mid-90's and Les Expos.


Did you see Fowler's and Stewart's numbers outside of Coors Field?

I had a feeling (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=124445&page=3) that any deal involving Gavin Floyd and the Rockies would include Ian Stewart and Dexter Fowler. As I said before, I agree with Palehose Planet that if the Sox acquire Stewart, they very likely will move him across the diamond to 1B.