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View Full Version : Justin Upton is Available?


Rockabilly
11-15-2010, 09:50 PM
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/dailypitch/post/2010/11/mlb-trade-surprises-justin-and-bj-upton-available-but-not-prince-fielder/1?csp=34

I would love to have Justin on the Sox and would trade Beckham for him

JermaineDye05
11-15-2010, 09:56 PM
Justin Upton is great, but I think it's gonna cost so much that it'd be counter productive trading for him.

doublem23
11-15-2010, 10:08 PM
Justin Upton is great, but I think it's gonna cost so much that it'd be counter productive trading for him.

If he is available, there's no way we'd be able to match what some other teams could offer for him, so it's not worth even talking about.

JermaineDye05
11-15-2010, 10:14 PM
If he is available, there's no way we'd be able to match what some other teams could offer for him, so it's not worth even talking about.

We can match what other teams could offer. I'm fairly certain they'd accept a package centered around Danks and Beckham, but like I said, that's counterproductive.

doublem23
11-15-2010, 10:20 PM
We can match what other teams could offer. I'm fairly certain they'd accept a package centered around Danks and Beckham, but like I said, that's counterproductive.

I'd be willing to bet one of the other 28 teams out there could top that, especially depending on how high or low Arizona is on Beckham after his 2010 season.

goon
11-16-2010, 12:39 AM
I'd be willing to bet one of the other 28 teams out there could top that, especially depending on how high or low Arizona is on Beckham after his 2010 season.

Upton's 2010 wasn't so hot either. The Sox easily have the pieces to get him.

Jpgr91
11-16-2010, 01:34 AM
While he did regress last year (.799 OPS) Justin Upton has a great start to his career arc. Upton posted a .816 OPS at Age 20 and an .899 OPS at Age 21. Upton also has a team friendly team contract until 2015.

The Sox best trading chip would be Gordon Beckham. Beckham and Upton are light years apart. At age 22 Beckham posted a .802 OPS and at Age 23 he posted a .695 OPS. While Beckham was great 2 years ago, his OPS was only .003 points better than Upton in Uptons "worst" year.

There is zero chance that the Sox get Upton.

cards press box
11-16-2010, 03:54 AM
If I were Sox gm, I would not consider trading Gordon Beckham. Trading him now -- when his value is artificially low after a poor first half last season -- would not help the club short term or long term. Right now, the Sox have a great foundation up the middle with Beckham, Alexei Ramirez and Alex Rios. Why mess that up?

One item in the article that intrigued me was the list of players generating interest among the GM's. That list, according to the article, included Bobby Jenks. I had just assumed that the Sox would non-tender Jenks but I suppose that a team interested in Jenks could deal for him now and get at least one year from him (by offering arbitration).

Rockabilly
11-16-2010, 02:02 PM
http://twitter.com/jonmorosi/status/4608452605251584

doublem23
11-16-2010, 02:16 PM
If I were Sox gm, I would not consider trading Gordon Beckham. Trading him now -- when his value is artificially low after a poor first half last season -- would not help the club short term or long term. Right now, the Sox have a great foundation up the middle with Beckham, Alexei Ramirez and Alex Rios. Why mess that up?

One item in the article that intrigued me was the list of players generating interest among the GM's. That list, according to the article, included Bobby Jenks. I had just assumed that the Sox would non-tender Jenks but I suppose that a team interested in Jenks could deal for him now and get at least one year from him (by offering arbitration).

I would trade Beckham for Upton, regardless of what his percieved value is. Of course, since Beckham's stock is low, it'll take some more pieces to make that move, which is the problem.

There are a handful of players out there I'd take over Gordon any day of the week. I wouldn't consider the guy untouchable.

cards press box
11-16-2010, 06:12 PM
I would trade Beckham for Upton, regardless of what his percieved value is. Of course, since Beckham's stock is low, it'll take some more pieces to make that move, which is the problem.

That is exactly the problem. If Beckham's stock is artificially low, and I think it is, then it next to impossible to trade him and receive fair value. That is why the Sox' best bet is to keep him and keep their current middle of the diamond intact.

Jpgr91
11-16-2010, 06:36 PM
That is exactly the problem. If Beckham's stock is artificially low, and I think it is, then it next to impossible to trade him and receive fair value. That is why the Sox' best bet is to keep him and keep their current middle of the diamond intact.

By saying that his stock is artificially low you saying with a degree of certainty that Beckham will be highly productive in the future. In order to asses a players value you need to also factor in possibility that he could continue to regress.

cards press box
11-16-2010, 11:31 PM
By saying that his stock is artificially low you saying with a degree of certainty that Beckham will be highly productive in the future. In order to asses a players value you need to also factor in possibility that he could continue to regress.

You're right -- I am reasonably certain that Gordon Beckham will be highly productive in the future. The first half of 2010 was the first time that he struggled at any level of baseball. Young players (even great young players) sometimes struggle. Robin Ventura did, Ryne Sandburg did. Even Willie Mays did. Beckham struggled last year but rebounded to have a fine second half. I have no reason to think that progress won't continue.

I see Beckham becoming a terrific defensive second baseman, a .280 to .300 hitter with good power (20-25 HR range) and many, many doubles (35-40 range) year in and year out. Fans just need to be patient. Beckham will be the cornerstone of this franchise.

CPditka
11-18-2010, 11:16 AM
Likely landing spot is Red Sox for Ellsbury and Bard.

palehozenychicty
11-19-2010, 12:54 AM
You're right -- I am reasonably certain that Gordon Beckham will be highly productive in the future. The first half of 2010 was the first time that he struggled at any level of baseball. Young players (even great young players) sometimes struggle. Robin Ventura did, Ryne Sandburg did. Even Willie Mays did. Beckham struggled last year but rebounded to have a fine second half. I have no reason to think that progress won't continue.

I see Beckham becoming a terrific defensive second baseman, a .280 to .300 hitter with good power (20-25 HR range) and many, many doubles (35-40 range) year in and year out. Fans just need to be patient. Beckham will be the cornerstone of this franchise.

Thank you. I believe in the guy. He's the guy I'm least worried about. :cool:

As for the Upton chatter, it's real odd that a burgeoning 21 year old star with a reasonable contract has a lot of smoke around him. I know the strikeouts are high, and I think he'll make those adjustments in time. Otherwise, hm....

JermaineDye05
11-19-2010, 12:59 AM
Likely landing spot is Red Sox for Ellsbury and Bard.

No way is Epstein giving both up.

asindc
11-19-2010, 08:50 AM
Likely landing spot is Red Sox for Ellsbury and Bard.

No way is Epstein giving both up.

I was thinking the same thing. If I'm Arizona, I say yes quickly before Boston changes their minds.

Balfanman
11-19-2010, 09:20 AM
Thank you. I believe in the guy. He's the guy I'm least worried about. :cool:

As for the Upton chatter, it's real odd that a burgeoning 21 year old star with a reasonable contract has a lot of smoke around him. I know the strikeouts are high, and I think he'll make those adjustments in time. Otherwise, hm....

Agreed on both points. Isn't Uptons brother (B.J.) considered a bit of a malcontent in Tampa? Maybe that runs in the family?

russ99
11-19-2010, 10:14 AM
Rumor symmetry - 3 way deal?

ARI: Sox prospects, Colorado Prospects + Beckham
COL: Floyd
SOX: Upton and Stewart

Balfanman
11-19-2010, 11:57 AM
Rumor symmetry - 3 way deal?

ARI: Sox prospects, Colorado Prospects + Beckham
COL: Floyd
SOX: Upton and Stewart

YUCK! We give up Floyd, Beckham, & prospects just to get Upton and Stewart? No thanks.

soltrain21
11-19-2010, 12:12 PM
YUCK! We give up Floyd, Beckham, & prospects just to get Upton and Stewart? No thanks.

You must not realize how much Justin Upton would cost. He is fantastic.

doublem23
11-19-2010, 12:22 PM
You must not realize how much Justin Upton would cost. He is fantastic.

Yeah, especially if unloading Floyd allowed the Sox to ink John Danks to a 3-4 year extension, I would be all over this.

Corlose 15
11-19-2010, 12:22 PM
I'm not all that impressed with Ian Stewart and I'd be cautious about trading a starter until we know what we have with Peavy.

Balfanman
11-19-2010, 12:22 PM
You must not realize how much Justin Upton would cost. He is fantastic.

This of course is JMHO, but I believe that Beckham is also going to be a fantastic talent. Maybe not quite Justin Upton good, but not so far behind Upton that it's worth giving up all that. I also believe that Gordon Beckham has great leadership qualities and that is something that the Sox need as Konerko may be gone and Mark Buehrle may not be with the team too much longer either. I do believe that Uptons character has been questioned somewhat.

I also believe that people under value Gavin Floyd. I know that Gavin is not an ace, but he is a quality major league pitcher and that has a lot of value.

Plus prospects! We have so few of those as it is.

DirtySox
11-19-2010, 12:30 PM
The White Sox acquiring Upton is pie in the sky thinking. It's not going to happen.

Domeshot17
11-19-2010, 12:41 PM
This of course is JMHO, but I believe that Beckham is also going to be a fantastic talent. Maybe not quite Justin Upton good, but not so far behind Upton that it's worth giving up all that. I also believe that Gordon Beckham has great leadership qualities and that is something that the Sox need as Konerko may be gone and Mark Buehrle may not be with the team too much longer either. I do believe that Uptons character has been questioned somewhat.

I also believe that people under value Gavin Floyd. I know that Gavin is not an ace, but he is a quality major league pitcher and that has a lot of value.

Plus prospects! We have so few of those as it is.

True but if you can trade a guy who might make an all star game or 2 and a number 3 SP for a guy man think might win an MVP award one day and a fairly decent replacement at 2b and free up the money to keep Danks, it is a no brainer.

doublem23
11-19-2010, 12:43 PM
The White Sox acquiring Upton is pie in the sky thinking. It's not going to happen.

Yeah but else are we going to talk about in November? All the at bats Mark Teahen is going go get? Playing musical chairs with our bullpen until one of them can be an effective closer? Hoping that we don't need to blow out Sale's arm just to get through the 2011 season?

This is much more fun.

DirtySox
11-19-2010, 12:50 PM
Yeah but else are we going to talk about in November? All the at bats Mark Teahen is going go get? Playing musical chairs with our bullpen until one of them can be an effective closer? Hoping that we don't need to blow out Sale's arm just to get through the 2011 season?

This is much more fun.

True enough.

KMcMahon817
11-19-2010, 04:09 PM
Rumor symmetry - 3 way deal?

ARI: Sox prospects, Colorado Prospects + Beckham
COL: Floyd
SOX: Upton and Stewart

Meh. You solve a hole in RF, but you create two in the process (3rd starter, 2B). I like Upton and all, but I am not sure this helps the team in the short run, or really even the long run.

DirtySox
11-19-2010, 04:33 PM
Meh. You solve a hole in RF, but you create two in the process (3rd starter, 2B). I like Upton and all, but I am not sure this helps the team in the short run, or really even the long run.

I feel the same. Kenny doesn't have the prospect bullets to land Upton. He would obviously need to part with some significant major league talent, thereby creating even more holes on the roster. He would then need to fill those vacancies through the FA market where he is limited financially. It is a precarious situation to be in.

doublem23
11-19-2010, 04:46 PM
I feel the same. Kenny doesn't have the prospect bullets to land Upton. He would obviously need to part with some significant major league talent, thereby creating even more holes on the roster. He would then need to fill those vacancies through the FA market where he is limited financially. It is a precarious situation to be in.

True, but you're acquiring a guy who is literally the kind of player you can build a championship-caliber team around. I love Gordon and I wouldn't want to trade him for 99.5% of all the players in the Majors, but Justin Upton is one of them. They guy is 22-years-old and has an OPS+ of 112... in the Majors. Plus he's signed to a pretty reasonable contract until 2015, which is more than enough time (IMO) to start blowing up underperforming parts of this roster and trying to find ways fill those holes. I mean, either way, KW is going to have to throw some crazy stuff together to build a roster, I think it looks a lot better with Upton sitting in the 3-hole.

As for Gavin, I love the guy and I wouldn't mind if he stays but in the past, KW has had a knack for trading away pitchers just as they started to wear down. If Floyd really is available, maybe the Sox know something that they're playing close to their chest?

I the end, however, I think any deal that you wind up with Justin Upton isn't that bad of a deal, unless you somehow wipe out your entire MLB roster.

DirtySox
11-19-2010, 05:10 PM
True, but you're acquiring a guy who is literally the kind of player you can build a championship-caliber team around. I love Gordon and I wouldn't want to trade him for 99.5% of all the players in the Majors, but Justin Upton is one of them. They guy is 22-years-old and has an OPS+ of 112... in the Majors. Plus he's signed to a pretty reasonable contract until 2015, which is more than enough time (IMO) to start blowing up underperforming parts of this roster and trying to find ways fill those holes. I mean, either way, KW is going to have to throw some crazy stuff together to build a roster, I think it looks a lot better with Upton sitting in the 3-hole.

As for Gavin, I love the guy and I wouldn't mind if he stays but in the past, KW has had a knack for trading away pitchers just as they started to wear down. If Floyd really is available, maybe the Sox know something that they're playing close to their chest?

I the end, however, I think any deal that you wind up with Justin Upton isn't that bad of a deal, unless you somehow wipe out your entire MLB roster.

I'm not against moving Beckham for the right player. Upton would be one of those players. If you can indeed acquire him without significantly hurting your chances to compete this year or next year, go for it.

I also have no problem moving Gavin. He is signed to a very team friendly contract and is a 4 fWAR pitcher which is extremely valuable. Couple a huge surplus value with a weak free agent market for pitchers this off-season and you might be able to end up with a pretty nice haul. I'd prefer that haul to include at least one (near MLB ready) cost controlled highly touted prospect though.

BringHomeDaBacon
11-19-2010, 05:36 PM
True, but you're acquiring a guy who is literally the kind of player you can build a championship-caliber team around. I love Gordon and I wouldn't want to trade him for 99.5% of all the players in the Majors, but Justin Upton is one of them. They guy is 22-years-old and has an OPS+ of 112... in the Majors. Plus he's signed to a pretty reasonable contract until 2015, which is more than enough time (IMO) to start blowing up underperforming parts of this roster and trying to find ways fill those holes. I mean, either way, KW is going to have to throw some crazy stuff together to build a roster, I think it looks a lot better with Upton sitting in the 3-hole.

As for Gavin, I love the guy and I wouldn't mind if he stays but in the past, KW has had a knack for trading away pitchers just as they started to wear down. If Floyd really is available, maybe the Sox know something that they're playing close to their chest?

I the end, however, I think any deal that you wind up with Justin Upton isn't that bad of a deal, unless you somehow wipe out your entire MLB roster.

I agree with this. Any speculation about who the top players of this decade are going to be would include J Upton.

KMcMahon817
11-19-2010, 05:43 PM
I'm not against moving Beckham for the right player. Upton would be one of those players. If you can indeed acquire him without significantly hurting your chances to compete this year or next year, go for it.

I also have no problem moving Gavin. He is signed to a very team friendly contract and is a 4 fWAR pitcher which is extremely valuable. Couple a huge surplus value with a weak free agent market for pitchers this off-season and you might be able to end up with a pretty nice haul. I'd prefer that haul to include at least one (near MLB ready) cost controlled highly touted prospect though.

Agreed. But together in a deal for Upton? I just don't see how we could compete this season unless KW spends big. Upton in RF would be outstanding, but our rotation, and infield would be hurting big time without signing 2-3 expensive FA. And really nothing serious coming through the minors besides Sale. I don't know, it would be a really tough call.

doublem23
11-19-2010, 06:24 PM
Agreed. But together in a deal for Upton? I just don't see how we could compete this season unless KW spends big. Upton in RF would be outstanding, but our rotation, and infield would be hurting big time without signing 2-3 expensive FA. And really nothing serious coming through the minors besides Sale. I don't know, it would be a really tough call.

Well, I would also hope if we deal Gordon and Gavin, our 2nd best player in the return would be significantly better than Ian Stewart, even if the #1 is Justin Upton.

BringHomeDaBacon
11-19-2010, 06:48 PM
Agreed. But together in a deal for Upton? I just don't see how we could compete this season unless KW spends big. Upton in RF would be outstanding, but our rotation, and infield would be hurting big time without signing 2-3 expensive FA. And really nothing serious coming through the minors besides Sale. I don't know, it would be a really tough call.

Beckham didn't provide much last year anyway. I'll agree with you ahead of time that he won't be as bad again next season but what he gave last year is easily replaceable. With an OF of Pierre, Rios, Upton, (Quentin DH?) and Alexei at short you can easily get by with a light hitting solid defensive 2b. I'd be more concerned with replacing/resigning PK than the hole at 2b. Although it makes the rotation less solid, you have to give something up to get something of value in return- especially a player with Upton's potential.

DirtySox
11-19-2010, 09:42 PM
If it matters:
http://a1.twimg.com/profile_images/533041789/Kenny_normal.jpg
Ken_Rosenthal (http://twitter.com/#%21/Ken_Rosenthal) Ken Rosenthal
The four teams on Justin Upton's no-trade list: #A (http://twitter.com/#%21/search?q=%23A)'s, #Royals (http://twitter.com/#%21/search?q=%23Royals), #Tigers (http://twitter.com/#%21/search?q=%23Tigers), #Indians (http://twitter.com/#%21/search?q=%23Indians). Can be sent to any other club without his permission. #MLB (http://twitter.com/#%21/search?q=%23MLB)
30 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/#%21/Ken_Rosenthal/status/5805321826074624)

soltrain21
11-19-2010, 09:47 PM
If it matters:


You know, that really goes to show you how ****ty our division is and why the Sox should dominate, but don't.

MtGrnwdSoxFan
11-19-2010, 11:01 PM
If it matters:

That just means that the Twins will trade Nick Punto and the ghost of Lew Ford for Justin Upton.

asindc
11-19-2010, 11:59 PM
You know, that really goes to show you how ****ty our division is and why the Sox should dominate, but don't.

How exactly does that show such? Please explain.

JermaineDye05
11-20-2010, 12:28 AM
How exactly does that show such? Please explain.

Three of the teams are in our division and were not that very good last year. The assumption is that he's not confident that they can win.

BringHomeDaBacon
11-20-2010, 08:55 AM
Three of the teams are in our division and were not that very good last year. The assumption is that he's not confident that they can win.

Not really, the assumption is that he considers them crap cities where he doesn't want to live. If you're point is that the Sox have an advantage over divisional competitors in terms of desirability of home market then you would probably be correct.

asindc
11-21-2010, 03:51 PM
You know, that really goes to show you how ****ty our division is and why the Sox should dominate, but don't.

I think it goes to show that one can speculate about a number of different reasons why Upton would prefer to play in Pittsburgh or Washington, DC rather than Kansas City or Oakland.

How exactly does that show such? Please explain.

Three of the teams are in our division and were not that very good last year. The assumption is that he's not confident that they can win.

If that is the assumption, then you would have to assume he is more confident that the Nats and Pirates will win than he is the A's or the Tigers.

Not really, the assumption is that he considers them crap cities where he doesn't want to live. If you're point is that the Sox have an advantage over divisional competitors in terms of desirability of home market then you would probably be correct.

This is the more likely reason.