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View Full Version : Selig concedes East Coast bias hurting baseball


Fenway
11-13-2010, 06:57 PM
This column by ESPN Boston writer Howard Bryant will strike a nerve at WSI - I don't quote articles anymore but this demands to be front and center

The problem, Selig has acknowledged, is an over-reliance on the East Coast money generated by the Yankees and Red Sox and a belief by the television world that the baseball nation, Ken Burns-style, cares only about Boston and New York. It is money -- short money, really -- that the networks want, even at the cost of overlooking Lincecum and Cain and Posey, Elvis Andrus and Nelson Cruz and the rest of the game west of Interstate 95.

http://m.espn.go.com/mlb/story?storyId=5797386&pg=1

cws05champ
11-13-2010, 07:04 PM
Good link to the story...

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/commentary/news/story?page=bryant/101112

jamokes
11-13-2010, 07:12 PM
I love it when the World Series involves teams not on the east coast!! Add into the fact that the east coast teams are "favored" by the Hall of Fame. If Billy Pierce played for the Yanks he'd be in the Hall, same for Santo.

TDog
11-13-2010, 07:36 PM
I love it when the World Series involves teams not on the east coast!! Add into the fact that the east coast teams are "favored" by the Hall of Fame. If Billy Pierce played for the Yanks he'd be in the Hall, same for Santo.

If Ron Santo had played for an East Coast team, no one would talk about him belonging in the Hall of Fame because he probably wouldn't have stood out in his career. As it was, he had three teammates who made it to the Hall of Fame without playing for a team based east of Chicago. His Hall of Fame manager managed a lot of years on the East Coast, though.

Considering Billy Pierce finished his career with the Giants, it's rather surprising he isn't in the Hall of Fame, considering the Giants are the most represented team in the Hall of Fame. Of course, the Giants used to be an East Coast team.

The Giants-Dodgers rivalry is and always has been the most heated rivalry in baseball. It was true when they both played in New York and it's true today. Why there continues to be an East Coast bias more than half a century after the Giants and Dodgers moved to the West Coast makes no sense.

Brian26
11-13-2010, 08:35 PM
Studio 42 last night with Costas and George Brett touched on this. People think the Red Sox/Yankees feud is special, but the Yankees and Royals battled in the ACLS in '76, '77, '78, and '80, which spilled over to the pine tar game in '83. That rivalry was a war for just about a decade. New York and KANSAS CITY. This was before ESPN though.

RadioheadRocks
11-13-2010, 08:43 PM
Gee thanks Bud, but that horse left the barn a long ****ing time ago. :rolleyes:

Fenway
11-13-2010, 09:14 PM
If Ron Santo had played for an East Coast team, no one would talk about him belonging in the Hall of Fame because he probably wouldn't have stood out in his career. As it was, he had three teammates who made it to the Hall of Fame without playing for a team based east of Chicago. His Hall of Fame manager managed a lot of years on the East Coast, though.


Considering Billy Pierce finished his career with the Giants, it's rather surprising he isn't in the Hall of Fame, considering the Giants are the most represented team in the Hall of Fame. Of course, the Giants used to be an East Coast team.

The Giants-Dodgers rivalry is and always has been the most heated rivalry in baseball. It was true when they both played in New York and it's true today. Why there continues to be an East Coast bias more than half a century after the Giants and Dodgers moved to the West Coast makes no sense.

Reason is simple - Eastern Time Zone

The NFL exploited the Pacific Time Zone perfectly when the networks created the Sunday TV doubleheader but MLB really has not after 52 years.

The Giants-Dodgers rivalry today seems to be a bigger deal in SF than LA but it is still one of the strongest in MLB.

Bos-NYY has had peaks and valleys where it was very intense in the late 40's, mid to late 70's and now from 1999 to the present. It was always a big deal in New England especially in Connecticut and Rhode Island as with both states having a heavy Italian population there was the link with DiMaggio. The Ruth thing was a non-issue until after 1986.

Studio 42 last night with Costas and George Brett touched on this. People think the Red Sox/Yankees feud is special, but the Yankees and Royals battled in the ACLS in '76, '77, '78, and '80, which spilled over to the pine tar game in '83. That rivalry was a war for just about a decade. New York and KANSAS CITY. This was before ESPN though.

Boston and the Orioles was a big deal for a couple of decades and then Toronto as well. The last 3 years Tampa has jumped in.

You can trace part of the reason Bos, NYY, LAD and CUC became national teams to the old NBC Game of the Week. NBC liked Wrigley and Fenway - you didnt see Gowdy in Cleveland very much. Then came cable and you had WTBS, WGN nationwide with strong regional superstations in WSBK, WPIX, WOR and KTLA.

When Sunday Night Baseball began the concept was they would visit EVERY park once a season.

Royals-NYY was great drama and the fact it most years tilted NYY's way no doubt fueled George Brett's reaction in the pine tar game.

It is a BOS-NYY problem as even the Phillies cant get traction outside of the Delaware Valley. Go 30 miles from Philly and NY kicks in.

WhiteSox5187
11-13-2010, 10:06 PM
Leave it to Selig to identify a problem ten years after it started and the rest of America noticed it.

doublem23
11-14-2010, 12:06 AM
I can't wait for him to tell us about how steroids are hurting the game in 2020.

asindc
11-14-2010, 12:19 AM
This is another example of why MLB needs a Commissioner.

Lip Man 1
11-14-2010, 01:01 AM
Brian:

ESPN began operations in September 1979.

Lip

TDog
11-14-2010, 02:43 AM
...

The Giants-Dodgers rivalry today seems to be a bigger deal in SF than LA but it is still one of the strongest in MLB. ...

The rivalry is different in SoCal than it is in NoCal, but it's no less a big deal. I lived just across the Colorado River from Southern California (technically, I was south of Baja California due to a river bend, but I-8 skirted to the U.S. side of the border on its way to the SoCal beaches). I got LA television for 16 years. Now I have a different perspective living south of Sacramento in the Central Valley. The California rivalry is embedded in political and social attitudes between north and south. Such attitudes exist in both sections of the state, but the people are different.

Of course, when the teams were in New York, the Bobby Thompson home run beat the Dodgers, who had led the division by 12.5 games on Labor Day. And the Giants beat the Dodgers in a playoff to get to the 1962 World Series. And there was Juan Marichal attacking Johnny Roseboro with a bat in 1965. There have been other incidents in the ensuing decades, but nothing anywhere compares to that.

Still, I once saw a man underneath the Golden Gate bridge wearing a shirt that proclaimed Osama Bin Laden was a Dodgers fan. And during the World Series parade a couple of weeks ago, there were spontaneous chants of "beat LA."

There are rivals among teams who are contenders in the same division, i.e. the Yankees and Red Sox. There are rivals that involve a sort of sectionalism, something more at the root of the Cubs-Cardinals rivalry or even the Cubs-Brewers rivalry (which isn't as intense or nasty as the White Sox-Brewers rivalry was back in the A.L. days). There also is the history factor. The Dodgers-Giants have the geography, the division competition and the history.

Real rivalries aren't the creation of the media. They flourish even if the media ignores them.

DSpivack
11-14-2010, 04:51 AM
The rivalry is different in SoCal than it is in NoCal, but it's no less a big deal. I lived just across the Colorado River from Southern California (technically, I was south of Baja California due to a river bend, but I-8 skirted to the U.S. side of the border on its way to the SoCal beaches). I got LA television for 16 years. Now I have a different perspective living south of Sacramento in the Central Valley. The California rivalry is embedded in political and social attitudes between north and south. Such attitudes exist in both sections of the state, but the people are different.

Of course, when the teams were in New York, the Bobby Thompson home run beat the Dodgers, who had led the division by 12.5 games on Labor Day. And the Giants beat the Dodgers in a playoff to get to the 1962 World Series. And there was Juan Marichal attacking Johnny Roseboro with a bat in 1965. There have been other incidents in the ensuing decades, but nothing anywhere compares to that.

Still, I once saw a man underneath the Golden Gate bridge wearing a shirt that proclaimed Osama Bin Laden was a Dodgers fan. And during the World Series parade a couple of weeks ago, there were spontaneous chants of "beat LA."

There are rivals among teams who are contenders in the same division, i.e. the Yankees and Red Sox. There are rivals that involve a sort of sectionalism, something more at the root of the Cubs-Cardinals rivalry or even the Cubs-Brewers rivalry (which isn't as intense or nasty as the White Sox-Brewers rivalry was back in the A.L. days). There also is the history factor. The Dodgers-Giants have the geography, the division competition and the history.

Real rivalries aren't the creation of the media. They flourish even if the media ignores them.

Wasn't there an incident a few years ago where a Giants fan killed a Dodgers fan [or vice versa?] in the Chavez Ravine parking lot, or something like that?

cws05champ
11-14-2010, 08:42 AM
Brian:

ESPN began operations in September 1979.

Lip

Yes, but the point remains the same. The great bias was not as prevalent in the early days of ESPN because they were billing themselves as the "Entire Sports Network", which they were for awhile. You probably remember that in those days they were known for showing Sportscenter, Strongest Man competitions and Australian rules football than any main stream US sports.

Fenway
11-14-2010, 09:18 AM
The rivalry is different in SoCal than it is in NoCal, but it's no less a big deal. I lived just across the Colorado River from Southern California (technically, I was south of Baja California due to a river bend, but I-8 skirted to the U.S. side of the border on its way to the SoCal beaches). I got LA television for 16 years. Now I have a different perspective living south of Sacramento in the Central Valley. The California rivalry is embedded in political and social attitudes between north and south. Such attitudes exist in both sections of the state, but the people are different.

Of course, when the teams were in New York, the Bobby Thompson home run beat the Dodgers, who had led the division by 12.5 games on Labor Day. And the Giants beat the Dodgers in a playoff to get to the 1962 World Series. And there was Juan Marichal attacking Johnny Roseboro with a bat in 1965. There have been other incidents in the ensuing decades, but nothing anywhere compares to that.

Still, I once saw a man underneath the Golden Gate bridge wearing a shirt that proclaimed Osama Bin Laden was a Dodgers fan. And during the World Series parade a couple of weeks ago, there were spontaneous chants of "beat LA."

There are rivals among teams who are contenders in the same division, i.e. the Yankees and Red Sox. There are rivals that involve a sort of sectionalism, something more at the root of the Cubs-Cardinals rivalry or even the Cubs-Brewers rivalry (which isn't as intense or nasty as the White Sox-Brewers rivalry was back in the A.L. days). There also is the history factor. The Dodgers-Giants have the geography, the division competition and the history.

Real rivalries aren't the creation of the media. They flourish even if the media ignores them.

A good example of a rivalry that is rooted in blood and respect is Montreal-Boston in hockey. One would think Montreal fans would consider Toronto a bigger rival but that is not the case.

Nords-Habs bordered on pure hatred similar to what you see in Europe because of political and social reasons.

I respect how the Giants have always embraced their NY roots while the Dodgers under O'Malley tried to forget Brooklyn existed.

In pro sports I would list the great rivals as

NHL
Bos-Mon
Chi-Det
Tor-Det was but NHL killed it

NBA
Celts-Lakers

That seems to stand alone no matter where each team maybe in standings - other great rivalries have been dormant like Bulls-Knicks, Sixers-Boston etc

NFL
Bears-GB
Cowboys-Washington
Cowboys-Giants
Giants-Eagles
Browns-Steelers
Jets-Patriots etc

MLB
Bos-NYY
Cubs-StL
LAD-SF
Mets-Phil

plus your same market rivals tho White Sox-Cubs seems to be the strongest - Mets-NYY forget about each other when they don't play.

ESPN is out of control - and most likely will get the NHL back next season in some form similar to the NBA being on 2 cable outlets.

ESPN is worried about losing MLB completly and Joe Morgan getting canned is part of it. (BTW Selig loves McCarver) MLB Net seems poised to take on even more games and MLB brass and the Mouse do not like each other.

RadioheadRocks
11-14-2010, 10:17 PM
ESPN is worried about losing MLB completly and Joe Morgan getting canned is part of it. (BTW Selig loves McCarver)


Boy, talk about a pair that deserve each other!

gogosox675
11-14-2010, 11:44 PM
A good example of a rivalry that is rooted in blood and respect is Montreal-Boston in hockey. One would think Montreal fans would consider Toronto a bigger rival but that is not the case.

Nords-Habs bordered on pure hatred similar to what you see in Europe because of political and social reasons.

I respect how the Giants have always embraced their NY roots while the Dodgers under O'Malley tried to forget Brooklyn existed.

In pro sports I would list the great rivals as

NHL
Bos-Mon
Chi-Det
Tor-Det was but NHL killed it

NBA
Celts-Lakers

That seems to stand alone no matter where each team maybe in standings - other great rivalries have been dormant like Bulls-Knicks, Sixers-Boston etc

NFL
Bears-GB
Cowboys-Washington
Cowboys-Giants
Giants-Eagles
Browns-Steelers
Jets-Patriots etc

MLB
Bos-NYY
Cubs-StL
LAD-SF
Mets-Phil

plus your same market rivals tho White Sox-Cubs seems to be the strongest - Mets-NYY forget about each other when they don't play.

ESPN is out of control - and most likely will get the NHL back next season in some form similar to the NBA being on 2 cable outlets.

ESPN is worried about losing MLB completly and Joe Morgan getting canned is part of it. (BTW Selig loves McCarver) MLB Net seems poised to take on even more games and MLB brass and the Mouse do not like each other.

Maybe it's just me but I don't remember anybody talking about Lakers/Celtics again until the Big Three came along. Five years ago that rivalry was just as dormant as Bulls/Knicks is today.

Fenway
11-15-2010, 01:08 AM
Maybe it's just me but I don't remember anybody talking about Lakers/Celtics again until the Big Three came along. Five years ago that rivalry was just as dormant as Bulls/Knicks is today.

Fair enough

Bigger question

When does a regional rivaley become national???

Celts-Lakers regular season games were always big in both markets.

I would love to see a Celtics-Bulls rivalry take hold

I do believe and I am too lazy to look it up but I think Chicago was the only NBA team to beat Boston at the old Garden in 85-86

ohh and MJ had a game in playoffs that year.....63????

cards press box
11-15-2010, 04:15 AM
This column by ESPN Boston writer Howard Bryant will strike a nerve at WSI

Man, I hope that MLB does not do something idiotic like add more playoff teams. That is just not a good idea, as there is little drama in determining who the 5th and 6th best team in the Al or NL is. The current playoff format is, in my view, the outer limit of how many teams should make the playoffs.

As for MLB's realization that the East Coast bias hurts the game of baseball and the obvious fact that ESPN (and the awful Baseball Tonight) leads the world in East Coast sports bias, this is the news story equivalent of "dog bites man." It is not news.

I would love to see a Celtics-Bulls rivalry take hold

That seven game series in 2009 was just outstanding. I have a feeling that the Bulls and Celts will play for the Eastern Conference championship next May.