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Rockabilly
11-11-2010, 08:24 PM
http://twitter.com/jonmorosi/status/2776051855925249


I believe PK will sign with the Sox by Thanksgiving.

esbrechtel
11-12-2010, 09:03 AM
Here is to hoping!

beasly213
11-12-2010, 11:15 AM
http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2010/11/11/report-sox-cubs-might-try-to-sign-konerko/

Ken Rosenthal says Sox, Cubs, DBacks, O's and Rangers are all expected to make a push for Paulie.


I highly doubt Paulie would chose the Cubs over the Sox unless the money was insane from the north side of town.

Also doubt he would go to the O's although I could see him signing with the Rangers if he doesn't re sign with the Sox.

Zisk77
11-12-2010, 11:34 AM
Rangers seems curious as I thought they liked Moreland and he's young and cheap. Maybe They are thinking DH with Vlade leaving though?

I don't see the cubs ponying up the $ at the moment.

O's, who knows what that dysfunctional organization is going to do.

D'backs seem a real worry if Paulie wants to stay near home.

esbrechtel
11-12-2010, 11:37 AM
didn't someone say that D'backs are probably out...

TheOldRoman
11-12-2010, 11:39 AM
Rangers seems curious as I thought they liked Moreland and he's young and cheap. Maybe They are thinking DH with Vlade leaving though?

I don't see the cubs ponying up the $ at the moment.

O's, who knows what that dysfunctional organization is going to do.

D'backs seem a real worry if Paulie wants to stay near home.Remember though, Konerko gave his press conference to announce he would test free agency and may or may not want to come back. He said all the things he felt were wrong with the Sox, saying he was tired of second place. He very well might decide to play for Arizona, but we would then know he was full of ****. Arizona would be lucky to sniff third place, and they sure as hell aren't getting anywhere near first. If he wants to play out his remaining years losing in the dessert, more power to him. I just hope he doesn't say he is doing it to win.

guillen4life13
11-12-2010, 11:53 AM
Remember though, Konerko gave his press conference to announce he would test free agency and may or may not want to come back. He said all the things he felt were wrong with the Sox, saying he was tired of second place. He very well might decide to play for Arizona, but we would then know he was full of ****. Arizona would be lucky to sniff third place, and they sure as hell aren't getting anywhere near first. If he wants to play out his remaining years losing in the dessert, more power to him. I just hope he doesn't say he is doing it to win.

I wonder if he'll play in flan or tiramisu.

Can't blame Paulie for possibly wanting to leave. Second place can get a bit annoying, plus even though they won 88 games last year, the Sox seem like a team on the brink of minor rebuild.

PalehosePlanet
11-12-2010, 11:56 AM
Remember though, Konerko gave his press conference to announce he would test free agency and may or may not want to come back. He said all the things he felt were wrong with the Sox, saying he was tired of second place. He very well might decide to play for Arizona, but we would then know he was full of ****. Arizona would be lucky to sniff third place, and they sure as hell aren't getting anywhere near first. If he wants to play out his remaining years losing in the dessert, more power to him. I just hope he doesn't say he is doing it to win.

Yeah, his press conference had a sort of finality to it. He was not only saying good-bye, but even took some thinly veiled shots at KW and Ozzie. Going as far as to say he would maybe take less money to play elsewhere. Of course, after every negative leaning statement, he would soften it in his next sentence, as if to leave the door open for a return.

My take: He was just being diplomatic, by supposedly being open to resigning w/the Sox. He seemed conscious of the fact that he wanted to let us, the fans, down easy. He doesn't want to return.

I think that all of these publications that are listing The Sox as a finalist for his services are merely basing it off of his history with the organization, and not off of his actual thoughts/plans.

If he is our plan A, we need to get plan B in motion immediately.

g0g0
11-12-2010, 01:14 PM
I can't see him going to the Cubs. They've talked about either trying to land a big bat like Dunn or going with one of the kids. Paulie isn't a good fit.

Foulke You
11-12-2010, 03:55 PM
I can't see him going to the Cubs. They've talked about either trying to land a big bat like Dunn or going with one of the kids. Paulie isn't a good fit.
I have to agree. I've heard the Cubs want a left handed first baseman and have a lot of interest in Nick Johnson. Konerko just doesn't seem like a good fit for them.

aryzner
11-12-2010, 04:32 PM
I still think Paulie will be back with the Sox next year.

soxlady8
11-12-2010, 05:07 PM
I hope so too.
I hope Paulie is signed really quick !!

I know he wants to be close to home , but they are not a team that is very good.

chisoxfanatic
11-13-2010, 02:23 PM
I HOPE Paulie's back...Anyone have any idea on the length he wants for a contract? Might he be looking for this to be his final contract before retiring? I'd like for him to get at least a 4-year deal here. When his days are done at 1B, he can DH until he can't hit anymore. I am just hoping he'll finish his career here.

beasly213
11-13-2010, 02:25 PM
I HOPE Paulie's back...Anyone have any idea on the length he wants for a contract? Might he be looking for this to be his final contract before retiring? I'd like for him to get at least a 4-year deal here. When his days are done at 1B, he can DH until he can't hit anymore. I am just hoping he'll finish his career here.

There is no way the Sox will give him a 4 year deal...

I'm thinking 2 with an option for a third at Max.

LongLiveFisk
11-13-2010, 02:40 PM
Come on, PK, stay! The grass isn't greener somewhere else. (And hopefully the money isn't either!)

beasly213
11-27-2010, 10:20 PM
Cowley was on White Sox Weekly today with the Ranger. Said that with the Tigers signing Victor Martinez and Adam Dunn demanding a pretty big price tag he thinks the Sox will be more aggressive in trying to sign Paulie as apposed to before the Tigers signed Martinez.

Also says he is worth more to the Sox than to other teams dollar amount wise. Which I would agree with. Kind of like how Jeter is worth more to the yanks than any other team.

hi im skot
11-27-2010, 10:26 PM
Cowley was on White Sox Weekly today with the Ranger. Said that with the Tigers signing Victor Martinez and Adam Dunn demanding a pretty big price tag he thinks the Sox will be more aggressive in trying to sign Paulie as apposed to before the Tigers signed Martinez.

Also says he is worth more to the Sox than to other teams dollar amount wise. Which I would agree with. Kind of like how Jeter is worth more to the yanks than any other team.

Cowley doesn't even cover the Sox anymore, right?

Foulke You
11-28-2010, 01:18 AM
Cowley doesn't even cover the Sox anymore, right?
I think his obligations to covering the Sox run through 2010. Not sure who the Sun Times is getting to replace him on the Sox beat though.

slavko
11-28-2010, 10:14 AM
If Paul didn't burn his bridges in that unnecessary press conference, he charred them badly. The more I think about it though, he did leave the door open a crack. I wish he hadn't done that presser. He should have learned a little about Under The Radar from Kenny by now.

I don't think he'll be back. They have to find a place for Viciedo to play and when that's the case the older player gets moved. (Durham/Cora, Anderson/Rowand) Signing Paul means no place for Dayan for 3/4 years. That won't work.

Domeshot17
11-28-2010, 10:20 AM
If Paul didn't burn his bridges in that unnecessary press conference, he charred them badly. The more I think about it though, he did leave the door open a crack. I wish he hadn't done that presser. He should have learned a little about Under The Radar from Kenny by now.

I don't think he'll be back. They have to find a place for Viciedo to play and when that's the case the older player gets moved. (Durham/Cora, Anderson/Rowand) Signing Paul means no place for Dayan for 3/4 years. That won't work.

I had no problem with the Presser. Konerko said what most fans were thinking, we are tired of the losing attitude, we are tired of being a 2nd place team and we are tired of being owned by Minnesota.

Food for though, the Last time the Sox had a really good team, like a team that could win the world series without a miracle of events happening, was 2006. That was the year PK demanded we have a better team that 2005 or he walks. Hopefully this works again.

russ99
11-28-2010, 10:53 AM
I don't think he'll be back. They have to find a place for Viciedo to play and when that's the case the older player gets moved. (Durham/Cora, Anderson/Rowand) Signing Paul means no place for Dayan for 3/4 years. That won't work.

Dayan didn't especially look that good here. Sure, he got some key hits at the beginning, but as time went on, pitchers began to figure out how to pitch to him. And he has worse plate patience than Ramirez.

I wouldn't count on him being a regular or the team clearing a spot for him until he shows he can adjust to big league pitching. That goes double for Flowers. I don't mind young players replacing vets that leave to go elsewhere, if those kids actually can play. The jury's still out.

I also wonder if offering arbitration to Paul is taking us out of the market for Dunn, who may sign fairly soon. When's the deadline for a player accepting or denying arbitration? Usually that was 10 days, but the schedule is different this year. We could miss out on Dunn waiting for Paul to say yes or no.

Besides, if the Sox do sign Paul to a long-term deal, he'll be a DH soon enough, which could clear a place for Dayan if he's up to the task.

DirtySox
11-28-2010, 11:24 AM
I also wonder if offering arbitration to Paul is taking us out of the market for Dunn, who may sign fairly soon. When's the deadline for a player accepting or denying arbitration? Usually that was 10 days, but the schedule is different this year. We could miss out on Dunn waiting for Paul to say yes or no.

Tuesday night.

HarryChappas
11-28-2010, 11:39 AM
If Dayan is in our starting lineup with Morel we are looking at a 3rd possibly 4th place. Paulie is still ticked about letting Thome go. He deserves better and should go to a real organization. KENNY and OZZIE MUST GO!!


Dayan didn't especially look that good here. Sure, he got some key hits at the beginning, but as time went on, pitchers began to figure out how to pitch to him. And he has worse plate patience than Ramirez.

I wouldn't count on him being a regular or the team clearing a spot for him until he shows he can adjust to big league pitching. That goes double for Flowers. I don't mind young players replacing vets that leave to go elsewhere, if those kids actually can play. The jury's still out.

I also wonder if offering arbitration to Paul is taking us out of the market for Dunn, who may sign fairly soon. When's the deadline for a player accepting or denying arbitration? Usually that was 10 days, but the schedule is different this year. We could miss out on Dunn waiting for Paul to say yes or no.

Besides, if the Sox do sign Paul to a long-term deal, he'll be a DH soon enough, which could clear a place for Dayan if he's up to the task.

LITTLE NELL
11-28-2010, 01:15 PM
I don't really know if Paulie is upset about finihing 2nd all the time but the Sox do have a WS win in his time here plus winning the division in 2000 and 2008. The Sox also have had one of the best records in MLB since 1999 with I think only 2 losing seasons. Maybe PK should talk to Ernie Banks or a member of the Pirates, Orioles or Royals.

DumpJerry
11-28-2010, 03:36 PM
If Dayan is in our starting lineup with Morel we are looking at a 3rd possibly 4th place. Paulie is still ticked about letting Thome go. He deserves better and should go to a real organization. KENNY and OZZIE MUST GO!!
Since you are a personal friend of Paulie (after all, how would you know how he really feels?), what has he told you about what it would take to keep him? Also, what is a "real" organization? I am not aware of any pro team, baseball or otherwise, that caters to the needs and wishes of a single player instead of the big picture. Well, I can think one-the Colts.

soltrain21
11-28-2010, 03:50 PM
Since you are a personal friend of Paulie (after all, how would you know how he really feels?), what has he told you about what it would take to keep him? Also, what is a "real" organization? I am not aware of any pro team, baseball or otherwise, that caters to the needs and wishes of a single player instead of the big picture. Well, I can think one-the Colts.

Vikings.

spawn
11-28-2010, 04:09 PM
Vikings.
Yep.

DumpJerry
11-28-2010, 04:13 PM
I try to block the Vikings from my mind. Twins, too.

spawn
11-28-2010, 04:27 PM
Since you are a personal friend of Paulie (after all, how would you know how he really feels?), what has he told you about what it would take to keep him?
Well, I had a beers and buffalo wings with Paulie yesterday, and he told me that KW needs to go out and get Cliff Lee and Dunn as his backup, otherwise he's not signing. He also said he needs Crede and Rowand back here as well. He's already pissed off that KW didn't sign Victor Martinez. We then did a couple of shots of Jaegermister and danced with some honeys. Brian Anderson made an appearance later on, and we partied like it was 1999.

DumpJerry
11-28-2010, 04:57 PM
Well, I had a beers and buffalo wings with Paulie yesterday, and he told me that KW needs to go out and get Cliff Lee and Dunn as his backup, otherwise he's not signing. He also said he needs Crede and Rowand back here as well. He's already pissed off that KW didn't sign Victor Martinez. We then did a couple of shots of Jaegermister and danced with some honeys. Brian Anderson made an appearance later on, and we partied like it was 1999.
But no mention of Thome? I thought the poster was exaggerating.

spawn
11-28-2010, 05:16 PM
But no mention of Thome? I thought the poster was exaggerating.
He may have mentioned him, but I was so hammered from all of the shots I just don't remember.

Nellie_Fox
11-28-2010, 11:49 PM
They have to find a place for Viciedo to playNo, they don't. Not until he earns it. He hasn't shown me a thing yet.

DirtySox
11-28-2010, 11:57 PM
No, they don't. Not until he earns it. He hasn't shown me a thing yet.

He's shown me power, but that's about it. Agree though, he still has plenty to work on in the minors. I also wonder how the organization feels about him turning down the request to play winter ball.

doublem23
11-28-2010, 11:58 PM
No, they don't. Not until he earns it. He hasn't shown me a thing yet.

Oh yeah he did. In his limited time, he hit .308/.320/.519 as a 21-year-old. He's still got some kinks to work out but I don't think there's any doubt he's got an MLB-quality bat.

SoxSpeed22
11-29-2010, 12:13 AM
Like I said before, I would rather not see Viciedo starting until 2012. He does have a ton of potential, but a lot of it is unrefined. I would like for him to get full time work at first base in Charlotte next year and improve his pitch recognition.

Nellie_Fox
11-29-2010, 12:46 AM
He hasn't shown me a thing yet.

Oh yeah he did. He may have shown you. He showed me that, once pitchers figured out that he'd swing at anything, they didn't have to pitch to him anymore.

JohnTucker0814
11-29-2010, 06:46 AM
He may have shown you. He showed me that, once pitchers figured out that he'd swing at anything, they didn't have to pitch to him anymore.

You mean the same way they "figured" out how to pitch to the free swinger in Alexei Ramirez... and the same way that the free swinger in Vladimir Guerrero has had a short career.

Just because a guy is a free swinger and doesn't draw walks, doesn't mean he just swings at the first 3 pitches he sees. What it means is he swings and HITS most balls that are around the plate.

I have no problem with some of our young guys learning at the major league level. Every other team in baseball gives their young guys a chance. Should he bat 3rd? NO, he should bat 7th and give him an opportunity!

TheOldRoman
11-29-2010, 08:55 AM
I had no problem with the Presser. Konerko said what most fans were thinking, we are tired of the losing attitude, we are tired of being a 2nd place team and we are tired of being owned by Minnesota.

Food for though, the Last time the Sox had a really good team, like a team that could win the world series without a miracle of events happening, was 2006. That was the year PK demanded we have a better team that 2005 or he walks. Hopefully this works again.So, winning 89 games in 2008 with Contreras and the real American League MVP out the last month of the season didn't mean much, huh? I know that team limped to the finish line, but I don't think it would have taken a miracle had Quentin played the entire season and Vazquez not been asked to pitch every fourth game in September (and start any games in the playoffs).

Domeshot17
11-29-2010, 09:22 AM
So, winning 89 games in 2008 with Contreras and the real American League MVP out the last month of the season didn't mean much, huh? I know that team limped to the finish line, but I don't think it would have taken a miracle had Quentin played the entire season and Vazquez not been asked to pitch every fourth game in September (and start any games in the playoffs).

That 2008 team was no where close to a title contender. Quentin doesn't make much difference in that TB series.

Nellie_Fox
11-29-2010, 10:27 AM
You mean the same way they "figured" out how to pitch to the free swinger in Alexei Ramirez... and the same way that the free swinger in Vladimir Guerrero has had a short career.Alexei had one strikeout in every eight PA's his first season. Guerrero one in nine. Last year, Viciedo had one strikeout in every four PA's. If that's "hitting most balls around the plate" to you, then I'm certain you'll be happy with his performance.

doublem23
11-29-2010, 10:54 AM
That 2008 team was no where close to a title contender. Quentin doesn't make much difference in that TB series.

Quentin made a huge differnce to the Sox in 2008, they scored over a run fewer per game in September with him gone compared to the first five months of the season. Maybe he doesn't have a huge impact on that series, if you look at it in a vacuum, but a healthy Quentin all September probably allows the Sox to win the division outright (at least not have to race all the way to game 163) and therefore allow the Sox to set their play-off pitching staff up for Tampa. You think they would have gone with Vazquez-Buehrle-Danks-Floyd if they didn't have to gas them just to win the division?

Zisk77
11-29-2010, 10:58 AM
That 2008 team was no where close to a title contender. Quentin doesn't make much difference in that TB series.

The first part of your premise might be correct, but the second part is dead wrong. We could have easily won both games in TB with just one clutch hit in each game. We left an inordinate amount of guys on base and lead in both games.

TheOldRoman
11-29-2010, 11:11 AM
The first part of your premise might be correct, but the second part is dead wrong. We could have easily won both games in TB with just one clutch hit in each game. We left an inordinate amount of guys on base and lead in both games.Yep, and as Doublem mentioned above, having Quentin healthy in September means we wrap up the division earlier and can set our playoff roster. Our fourth best starter started the opener, and of course laid an egg. The Sox very easily could have won the Tampa series.

esbrechtel
11-29-2010, 11:37 AM
Quentin would have won the MVP if he was healthy in 2008, I have a hard time believing he "wouldn't have made a difference"

Domeshot17
11-29-2010, 12:04 PM
Here is my thinking on this:

Wise (replacing CQ) homers in game 1, do we expect much more? Maybe Danks moves up to start game 1, so it is a toss up.

Game 2 is STILL Buehrle, and he got knocked around, would CQ make the 4 runs?

Gavin then goes in game 3, he got hit hard, maybe that changes. Sox won this game originally with Danks.

Javy then goes game 4, and he got shelled as well.

I understand the order and such, but moving Gavin up a game probably doesn't change him being hit. The Rays scored 6 runs in the games Javy-Burls-Gavin started. The order they pitched would have been virtually meaningless.

Our LF group that series hit .300 (3 for 10) with a homer and 5 RBI in 4 games. Do we expect Quentin would have done much more? We got GREAT production out of the LF group. Tampa was just the better team.

That was just not a championship calibur team.

TheOldRoman
11-29-2010, 12:57 PM
First off, winning the first game of a 5 game set means a lot in terms of momentum. Maybe the Rays are pressing after losing game 1 at home. The Sox offense is very streaky, maybe winning game 1 puts them on a roll. Buehrle didn't exactly get "shelled". He gave up 2 of the 3 runs scored in the 8th, but he wouldn't have been pitching still if the Sox had the lead at that point. Maybe Gavin gets skipped one start at the end of the season and is fresher for game 3. There are lots of turning points in playoff series. For example, El Duque's inning in game 3 of the ALDS was pivitol. I believe that if the Red Sox won that game, they would have come back and taken the series, fresh off coming back 0-3 the year before. And yet, after two pop-outs and a strikeout, the Red Sox were swept.

You can't say for certain, and nobody here is arguing the 2008 Sox would have won the World Series for sure. A lot of small details (who starts what game) and large details (Quentin and his impact being out of the game) make huge differences. Even if you give Carlos the same line Wise put up (and there is no guarantee he hits at all in the series), hitting .300 with a homer is going to have a much bigger impact on the team coming from the 3 hole than battin 2nd or 8th. Moving everyone else back would also be helpful. The most important aspect is the presence Quentin brought. Guys in front of him got better pitches to hit, guys behind him got to bat with runners on base more often, etc. Small changes make a big difference. To say that a team which won the 89 games and the division without the services of the AL MVP the last month of the season wasn't championship calibur based on 4 games is shortsighted.

Domeshot17
11-29-2010, 01:01 PM
First off, winning the first game of a 5 game set means a lot in terms of momentum. Maybe the Rays are pressing after losing game 1 at home. The Sox offense is very streaky, maybe winning game 1 puts them on a roll. Buehrle didn't exactly get "shelled". He gave up 2 of the 3 runs scored in the 8th, but he wouldn't have been pitching still if the Sox had the lead at that point. Maybe Gavin gets skipped one start at the end of the season and is fresher for game 3. There are lots of turning points in playoff series. For example, El Duque's inning in game 3 of the ALDS was pivitol. I believe that if the Red Sox won that game, they would have come back and taken the series, fresh off coming back 0-3 the year before. And yet, after two pop-outs and a strikeout, the Red Sox were swept.

You can't say for certain, and nobody here is arguing the 2008 Sox would have won the World Series for sure. A lot of small details (who starts what game) and large details (Quentin and his impact being out of the game) make huge differences. Even if you give Carlos the same line Wise put up (and there is no guarantee he hits at all in the series), hitting .300 with a homer is going to have a much bigger impact on the team coming from the 3 hole than battin 2nd or 8th. Moving everyone else back would also be helpful. Small changes make a big difference. To say that a team which won the 89 games and the division without the services of the AL MVP the last month of the season wasn't championship calibur based on 4 games is shortsighted.

Or Maybe Quentin who is known to press tenses up and doesn't hit .300 in the series. Also, I would sometimes agree with you, but Wise's hit were big hits that drove in runs. Carlos wouldn't have hit a 6 run homer because he hits in the middle.

If you look at pure talent of the playoff teams in 2008, the Sox were on the low end. That team would have needed a miracle run to win the title. They didn't have the pitching, and pitching wins in October.

dickallen15
11-29-2010, 01:12 PM
Or Maybe Quentin who is known to press tenses up and doesn't hit .300 in the series. Also, I would sometimes agree with you, but Wise's hit were big hits that drove in runs. Carlos wouldn't have hit a 6 run homer because he hits in the middle.

If you look at pure talent of the playoff teams in 2008, the Sox were on the low end. That team would have needed a miracle run to win the title. They didn't have the pitching, and pitching wins in October.

The playoffs are a crapshoot. If the Giants lost in the first round this year, how many would have been saying exactly what you are implying about the 2008 Whtie Sox? Injuries hurt the Sox that year, but injuries happen. It probably took something out of them the way they had to scramble just to get in the playoffs, and not having your rotation set is a huge dissadvantage.

doublem23
11-29-2010, 01:23 PM
Here is my thinking on this:

Wise (replacing CQ) homers in game 1, do we expect much more? Maybe Danks moves up to start game 1, so it is a toss up.

Game 2 is STILL Buehrle, and he got knocked around, would CQ make the 4 runs?

Gavin then goes in game 3, he got hit hard, maybe that changes. Sox won this game originally with Danks.

Javy then goes game 4, and he got shelled as well.

I understand the order and such, but moving Gavin up a game probably doesn't change him being hit. The Rays scored 6 runs in the games Javy-Burls-Gavin started. The order they pitched would have been virtually meaningless.

Our LF group that series hit .300 (3 for 10) with a homer and 5 RBI in 4 games. Do we expect Quentin would have done much more? We got GREAT production out of the LF group. Tampa was just the better team.

That was just not a championship calibur team.

Buehrle and Floyd, however, had been pitching on short rest in the weeks leading up to the Rays series. There's just no way to say what may or may not have happened, but the Sox were in every game of that TB series even despite having been gassed from their stretch run. Having 2008 TCQ for the month of September and the postseason would have made a big difference. Just getting to the playoffs usually means you can win the World Series.

esbrechtel
11-29-2010, 01:27 PM
buehrle and floyd, however, had been pitching on short rest in the weeks leading up to the rays series. There's just no way to say what may or may not have happened, but the sox were in every game of that tb series even despite having been gassed from their stretch run. Having 2008 tcq for the month of september and the postseason would have made a big difference. Just getting to the playoffs usually means you can win the world series.

+1

TheOldRoman
11-29-2010, 01:32 PM
The playoffs are a crapshoot. If the Giants lost in the first round this year, how many would have been saying exactly what you are implying about the 2008 Whtie Sox? Injuries hurt the Sox that year, but injuries happen. It probably took something out of them the way they had to scramble just to get in the playoffs, and not having your rotation set is a huge dissadvantage.Right. If the Giants lost to the Braves (which very likely would have happened if Brooks Conrad wasn't playin 2B for Atlanta), people would have said "The Giants would have been swept by the Phillies, anyway. Did you see their offense?! How does a team that bad offensively even make the playoffs?! They would stand no chance against the Phillies' staff." You don't know until the games are played, but I think the Sox would have at least been a team to be reckoned with.

BringHomeDaBacon
11-29-2010, 01:35 PM
I don't see the point of playing the "what if" game about TCQ's injury in 2008. When you saddle your wagon to an injury prone player, you can't act surprised when the inevitable injury occurs. With Carlos, injuries are just part of the package. That was part of the reason he was available to the Sox in the first place.

Foulke You
11-29-2010, 02:27 PM
I don't see the point of playing the "what if" game about TCQ's injury in 2008. When you saddle your wagon to an injury prone player, you can't act surprised when the inevitable injury occurs. With Carlos, injuries are just part of the package. That was part of the reason he was available to the Sox in the first place.
The 2008 Quentin injury was the text book definition of "freak injury". He mashed the bat in frustration with his arm and broke his wrist. I don't think that reflects on his durability overall. However, I do understand the point you are making.

BringHomeDaBacon
11-29-2010, 02:51 PM
The 2008 Quentin injury was the text book definition of "freak injury". He mashed the bat in frustration with his arm and broke his wrist. I don't think that reflects on his durability overall. However, I do understand the point you are making.

Normally I would agree with you except with players like Quentin there are no freak injuries, just inevitable injuries.

TDog
11-29-2010, 04:21 PM
That 2008 team was no where close to a title contender. Quentin doesn't make much difference in that TB series.

If the Sox starting pitching had been lined up, the Sox probably would have gone to the World Series. They would have matched up pretty well with the Rays. The Sox missed Quentin, and the only consistent postseason hitter was Wise, but they were certainly a contender.

DumpJerry
11-29-2010, 05:22 PM
:walnuts
Remember me?

Frater Perdurabo
11-29-2010, 07:30 PM
That 2008 team was no where close to a title contender. Quentin doesn't make much difference in that TB series.

But a healthy Quentin might have been the difference in allowing the Sox to win the division outright, without needing Danks to pitch Game 163. If so, then Danks gets to pitch Game 1 and Game 5 against the Rays.

EDIT: Everyone beat me to the punch.

Frater Perdurabo
11-29-2010, 07:33 PM
:walnuts
Remember me?

Yeah. You had a bad 2008. If you hadn't sucked so bad until August, perhaps the Sox could have built a bigger lead in the division and won the division outright. :tongue:

Daver
11-29-2010, 08:08 PM
Yeah. You had a bad 2008. If you hadn't sucked so bad until August, perhaps the Sox could have built a bigger lead in the division and won the division outright. :tongue:
Compared to what speculation?

The pitching speculation or the hitting speculation?

RowanDye
11-29-2010, 08:56 PM
Compared to what speculation?

The pitching speculation or the hitting speculation?

No need to speculate that 2008 was Paulie's worst offensive year.

Frater Perdurabo
11-29-2010, 09:31 PM
No need to speculate that 2008 was Paulie's worst offensive year.

Not as bad as 2003. But 2008 was his second-worst year.

Frater Perdurabo
11-29-2010, 09:41 PM
Compared to what speculation?

The pitching speculation or the hitting speculation?

I'm not even sure what you're asking. Paulie had a bad 2008 at the plate (although he finished strong). Part of that was due to injury. If he had not been hurt and had not had a poor first half, perhaps his bat would have won a few more games in April/May/June/July 2008. Even one more regular season victory would have forestalled Game 163, and thus would have put Danks on track to pitch Game 1 of the ALDS, which would have made a Game 1 win more likely for the Sox than with "Gas Can Vazquez" pitching.

Since this hypothetical results in the change of ONE regular season game, we can find many games in 2008 in which any Sox player failed to get a hit or make a pitch that could have won a winnable game. Therefore, I'm not blaming Paulie for the Sox failure in 2008. However, his injury and poor performance in 2008 are especially glaring due to his otherwise excellent (if at times inconsistent) career both at the plate and in the field.

Brian26
11-29-2010, 10:06 PM
No need to speculate that 2008 was Paulie's worst offensive year.

Without looking up the numbers, I'm certain Konerko's 2003 season was worse than '08.

beasly213
11-30-2010, 12:43 PM
Arbitration decisions are due today..

mlbtraderumors.com has a note that a 1 year deal with a large salary might be appealing to Konerko... Only time will tell.

dickallen15
11-30-2010, 01:31 PM
Arbitration decisions are due today..

mlbtraderumors.com has a note that a 1 year deal with a large salary might be appealing to Konerko... Only time will tell.
I just don't see why he would accept. If the White Sox offered, they apparently are willing to pay up for him for one season. So he could always re-sign for one year at what would have been the arb figure or split the difference, and still have the fact he could sign elsewhere as a negotiating strength. If the Sox are willing to pay him the $15-$16 million he would probably get in arbitration, if he turns that down, I would really doubt the Sox would play hardball with him later if he was willing to re-sign.

DirtySox
11-30-2010, 01:47 PM
I just don't see why he would accept. If the White Sox offered, they apparently are willing to pay up for him for one season. So he could always re-sign for one year at what would have been the arb figure or split the difference, and still have the fact he could sign elsewhere as a negotiating strength. If the Sox are willing to pay him the $15-$16 million he would probably get in arbitration, if he turns that down, I would really doubt the Sox would play hardball with him later if he was willing to re-sign.

I would be shocked if either Konerko or Putz accepted.

soxinem1
11-30-2010, 03:55 PM
I would be shocked if either Konerko or Putz accepted.

Ditto. I think both are gone.

peelwonder
12-01-2010, 02:04 PM
according to MLBTraderumors the Orioles have made a significant offer to Konerko....

DirtySox
12-01-2010, 02:07 PM
according to MLBTraderumors the Orioles have made a significant offer to Konerko....

According to Jim Bowden.

http://a2.twimg.com/profile_images/1091292942/images_normal.jpeg
JimBowdenXMFOX (http://twitter.com/#%21/JimBowdenXMFOX) JIM BOWDEN
BaltimoreOrioles have been aggressive with free agents and despite losing out on Victor Martinez have made significant offer to Paul Konerko
1 hour ago (http://twitter.com/#%21/JimBowdenXMFOX/status/10038124356833281)

NLaloosh
12-01-2010, 02:24 PM
That's great. I hope Baltimore is the competition.

1. He's concerned about the Sox missing the playoffs? Well, there's zero chance with the O's.

2. It's even further away from Arizona.

I think he'll be back with the Sox. The Sox aren't signing Dunn and Paulie will not make them pay top dollar so it will happen.

JermaineDye05
12-01-2010, 02:25 PM
I believe Baltimore made an offer to Konerko back in the 05 offseason but were rejected.

DirtySox
12-01-2010, 02:25 PM
I believe Baltimore made an offer to Konerko back in the 05 offseason but were rejected.

Yar.

CPditka
12-01-2010, 02:37 PM
Baltimores pick is protected.

Id rather Paulie come back.

soltrain21
12-01-2010, 02:52 PM
That's great. I hope Baltimore is the competition.

1. He's concerned about the Sox missing the playoffs? Well, there's zero chance with the O's.

2. It's even further away from Arizona.

I think he'll be back with the Sox. The Sox aren't signing Dunn and Paulie will not make them pay top dollar so it will happen.

He already took one hometown discount, and I thought he said he wasn't doing that this time.

guillen4life13
12-01-2010, 03:23 PM
He already took one hometown discount, and I thought he said he wasn't doing that this time.

He said it's possible that the Sox could offer more money than another team and he's still choose the other team.

Dude just wants to win, I think. At least he's being honest.

JermaineDye05
12-01-2010, 03:43 PM
konerko has drawn significant interest from the #orioles (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23orioles). but an acquaintance opined: "he's not going to go to baltimore.'' 2 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyman/status/10085944233304064) via web Retweeted by 3 people
http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/190827556/jon_heyman_bigger.jpg (http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyman)
SI_JonHeyman (http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyman)

KMcMahon817
12-01-2010, 04:40 PM
He already took one hometown discount, and I thought he said he wasn't doing that this time.

Was he offered more than 5 years 60 million after 05? He very well could have been, I just don't remember.

WhiteSox5187
12-01-2010, 04:47 PM
Was he offered more than 5 years 60 million after 05? He very well could have been, I just don't remember.

I think Baltimore offered Konerko more after '05 and the Angels and the Sox had the same offer.

kittle42
12-01-2010, 05:16 PM
konerko has drawn significant interest from the #orioles (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23orioles). but an acquaintance opined: "he's not going to go to baltimore.''

Who would?

cws05champ
12-01-2010, 05:25 PM
konerko has drawn significant interest from the #orioles (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23orioles). but an acquaintance opined: "he's not going to go to baltimore.'' 2 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyman/status/10085944233304064) via web Retweeted by 3 people
http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/190827556/jon_heyman_bigger.jpg (http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyman)
SI_JonHeyman (http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyman)

And this acquaintance would be you Jon Heyman?

SoxNation05
12-01-2010, 05:29 PM
I think Baltimore offered Konerko more after '05 and the Angels and the Sox had the same offer.

It was AZ who offered more.

Brian26
12-01-2010, 05:51 PM
It was AZ who offered more.

It was Baltimore. The Angels were in the mix too. AZ was not.

SoxNation05
12-01-2010, 09:11 PM
It was Baltimore. The Angels were in the mix too. AZ was not.

Just realized I was thinking about Dye.

palehozenychicty
12-01-2010, 09:51 PM
He would not go to Baltimore. They still don't have the pitching or infield power to compete. Dag, I remember when they were good. Seems like the ice age now.

Balfanman
12-01-2010, 10:20 PM
Just realized I was thinking about Dye.

I think that Dyes offer was fron Texas wasn't it?

JermaineDye05
12-02-2010, 03:51 PM
rumors swirling all over chicago #cubs (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23cubs) are in on konerko. id be stunned if jerry reinsdorf's favorite player leaves him for cubs 6 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyman/status/10449502183886848) via web Retweeted by 11 people
http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/190827556/jon_heyman_bigger.jpg (http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyman)
SI_JonHeyman (http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyman)
Jon Heyman

DirtySox
12-02-2010, 04:16 PM
http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/190827556/jon_heyman_normal.jpg
SI_JonHeyman (http://twitter.com/#%21/SI_JonHeyman) Jon Heyman
#diamondbacks (http://twitter.com/#%21/search?q=%23diamondbacks) appear out of konerko. cant see him going to orioles or cubs, either. got to figure he and jerry reinsdorf work it out
35 seconds ago (http://twitter.com/#%21/SI_JonHeyman/status/10456979604504576)

hi im skot
12-02-2010, 04:19 PM
http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/190827556/jon_heyman_normal.jpg
SI_JonHeyman (http://twitter.com/#%21/SI_JonHeyman) Jon Heyman
#diamondbacks (http://twitter.com/#%21/search?q=%23diamondbacks) appear out of konerko. cant see him going to orioles or cubs, either. got to figure he and jerry reinsdorf work it out
35 seconds ago (http://twitter.com/#%21/SI_JonHeyman/status/10456979604504576)

Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease!

MUsoxfan
12-02-2010, 04:19 PM
There's zero chance he'd go to Baltimore or the Cubs. He'd only play for the Sox, Dbacks, or either LA team.

beasly213
12-02-2010, 04:20 PM
Re Sign Paul! Re Sign Paul!
Re Sign Paul! Re Sign Paul!
Re Sign Paul! Re Sign Paul!
Re Sign Paul! Re Sign Paul!
Re Sign Paul! Re Sign Paul!
Re Sign Paul! Re Sign Paul!

soxlady8
12-02-2010, 04:32 PM
Dear Santa ,

I have been a really really good girl this year.
I don't want any material items.
I honestly just want Paul Konerko to re-sign with my favorite baseball team The Chicago White Sox !!
If anyone can get this done , it can be you Santa -

signed , Soxlady8

esbrechtel
12-02-2010, 04:33 PM
http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/190827556/jon_heyman_normal.jpg
SI_JonHeyman (http://twitter.com/#%21/SI_JonHeyman) Jon Heyman
#diamondbacks (http://twitter.com/#%21/search?q=%23diamondbacks) appear out of konerko. cant see him going to orioles or cubs, either. got to figure he and jerry reinsdorf work it out
35 seconds ago (http://twitter.com/#%21/SI_JonHeyman/status/10456979604504576)

:praying:

WhiteSox5187
12-02-2010, 04:33 PM
Dear Santa ,

I have been a really really good girl this year.
I don't want any material items.
I honestly just want Paul Konerko to re-sign with my favorite baseball team The Chicago White Sox !!
If anyone can get this done , it can be you Santa -

signed , Soxlady8

I would also request a very cheap contract for AJ as well. I would like him back too, partially for sentimental reasons and also because I don't want Flowers to be plan A for behind the plate.

soxlady8
12-02-2010, 04:35 PM
WhiteSox5187--
You are right , we need AJ back too !!

LITTLE NELL
12-02-2010, 04:36 PM
I would also request a very cheap contract for AJ as well. I would like him back too, partially for sentimental reasons and also because I don't want Flowers to be plan A for behind the plate.

I want to keep AJ because we still need another LH bat in the lineup plus he knows our pitchers.

DickAllen72
12-02-2010, 04:36 PM
WhiteSox5187--
You are right , we need AJ back too !!
Absolutely.

DirtySox
12-02-2010, 04:40 PM
http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/1130468780/9-15_20Lachat_20cowley_201_normal.jpg
cst_sox (http://twitter.com/#%21/cst_sox) cst_sox
KW says they have room for both Dunn and Konerko, and that would be the ideal fit.
1 minute ago (http://twitter.com/#%21/cst_sox/status/10462975177531392)

http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/1130468780/9-15_20Lachat_20cowley_201_normal.jpg
cst_sox (http://twitter.com/#%21/cst_sox) cst_sox
They will let PK go through the winter meetings process and then hope to know if it's going to happen.
48 seconds ago (http://twitter.com/#%21/cst_sox/status/10463127304933376)

soltrain21
12-02-2010, 04:42 PM
http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/1130468780/9-15_20Lachat_20cowley_201_normal.jpg
cst_sox (http://twitter.com/#%21/cst_sox) cst_sox
KW says they have room for both Dunn and Konerko, and that would be the ideal fit.
1 minute ago (http://twitter.com/#%21/cst_sox/status/10462975177531392)

http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/1130468780/9-15_20Lachat_20cowley_201_normal.jpg
cst_sox (http://twitter.com/#%21/cst_sox) cst_sox
They will let PK go through the winter meetings process and then hope to know if it's going to happen.
48 seconds ago (http://twitter.com/#%21/cst_sox/status/10463127304933376)


They have to be trading someone, then.

WhiteSox5187
12-02-2010, 04:44 PM
They have to be trading someone, then.

I would assume so. It's all speculation on my part but I would figure a pitcher (either Jackson or Floyd), Quentin and Vicideo. If anyone would take Teahen, he might be gone too.

esbrechtel
12-02-2010, 04:59 PM
My guess would be Floyd....

Randar68
12-02-2010, 05:07 PM
They have to be trading someone, then.

Or work out a back-loaded or partially deferred contract to let some of the 2011 salary clear... (Edwin, Linebrink, Pierre, etc).

It's not out of the realm of possibility, but I am personally more concerned about the bullpen at this point. I think Viciedo/Teahen can be adequate at 1st with Morel at 3rd.

soxinem1
12-02-2010, 05:07 PM
My guess would be Floyd....

No salary relief there. He makes nowhere near what Jackson does, and is under team control for several more seasons.

Quentin and Viciedo to STL for Colby Rasmus, and everyone is happy.

Randar68
12-02-2010, 05:11 PM
Quentin and Viciedo to STL for Colby Rasmus, and everyone is happy.

Haven't been following closely enough to know, but why is Rasmus on the block? You don't have a 24 year old CF'er posting .859 OPS numbers in their second MLB season every day. They have him under control through 2014...

soxinem1
12-02-2010, 05:17 PM
Haven't been following closely enough to know, but why is Rasmus on the block? You don't have a 24 year old CF'er posting .859 OPS numbers in their second MLB season every day. They have him under control through 2014...

The spat between him and LaRussa is well known, and STL supposedly likes Quentin.

If PK resigns, throw in Viciedo since there is no place for him here then, and Teahen too!!

DirtySox
12-02-2010, 05:20 PM
No salary relief there. He makes nowhere near what Jackson does, and is under team control for several more seasons.

Quentin and Viciedo to STL for Colby Rasmus, and everyone is happy.

That isn't even close to enough for Rasmus.

Domeshot17
12-02-2010, 05:24 PM
No salary relief there. He makes nowhere near what Jackson does, and is under team control for several more seasons.

Quentin and Viciedo to STL for Colby Rasmus, and everyone is happy.

Might take Quentin and Floyd for Rasmus.

That said, Konerko could do something smart and sign a 3-4 year deal with the White Sox with 50% deferred after he retires (ala Griffey Jr.)

That would be insane though: Pierre Beckham Rasmus Dunn Konerko Rios Ramirez (Catcher) Morel...Completely sick! Rotation of something along the lines of Peavy-Danks-Buehrle-Jackson-Sale and sign a Veteran arm (maybe Freddy, maybe a guy like Westbrook) to round it out. I know Sale needs some time.

Lillian
12-02-2010, 05:27 PM
I can't imagine that the Sox will trade any of their starting pitching in an effort to achieve salary relief.
They are obviously "going for it" now, and will need all of that pitching depth.

They may try to move Pierre and Teahen to cut payroll, but not any of the 5 starters.
If they trade a starter, I think it will be for bullpen help, but not just to cut payroll.

soltrain21
12-02-2010, 05:33 PM
I can't imagine that the Sox will trade any of their starting pitching in an effort to achieve salary relief.
They are obviously "going for it" now, and will need all of that pitching depth.

They may try to move Pierre and Teahen to cut payroll, but not any of the 5 starters.
If they trade a starter, I think it will be for bullpen help, but not just to cut payroll.

I know you hate Pierre - but they would trade him...why?

DirtySox
12-02-2010, 05:35 PM
I know you hate Pierre - but they would trade him...why?

10 dollars says the answer has the name De Aza in it.

doublem23
12-02-2010, 05:56 PM
That isn't even close to enough for Rasmus.

Who ****ing knows at this point? Yesterday I'd say there's no way the Sox have room to pick up a guy for 4 yrs/$56 M.

Maybe STL is secretly desperate to get rid of Colby. Maybe they love Gavin and Quentin.

DirtySox
12-02-2010, 06:05 PM
Who ****ing knows at this point? Yesterday I'd say there's no way the Sox have room to pick up a guy for 4 yrs/$56 M.

Maybe STL is secretly desperate to get rid of Colby. Maybe they love Gavin and Quentin.

Gavin and Quentin is much closer in value for Colby. What was suggested was Viciedo and Quentin. I have no idea where Dayan would be playing in St. Louis.

russ99
12-02-2010, 06:06 PM
Kenny's handled this perfectly. Both Paul and A.J. are due for a pay cut, we all know this, despite Konerko's numbers last year.

Paul was offered arbitration, he refused. If he goes to Baltimore or Arizona, it's obvious he did it for the cash.

Now Kenny can offer Paul the chance to come back to the team where he's an icon and retire, and have a chance to win - with a better contract for the Sox.

I think catcher's down to A.J. and Olivo, with Russell Martin a possibility if he's non-tendered today. Regardless, that will have to wait, and hopefully everyone's prices go down over time.

One more thought: If someone came to me in spring of 2008 and said the Sox would have Jake Peavy, Adam Dunn, Alex Rios (and to a lesser extent Edwin Jackson) in 2 and a half years, I'd ask what they were smoking. Big props to Jerry and Kenny for stepping up and keeping the Sox a contending team. If the quote is that they have room for both Konerko and Dunn, Jerry's raised the payroll significantly.

Lillian
12-02-2010, 06:07 PM
10 dollars says the answer has the name De Aza in it.

Touche.
Actually, I said that with that lineup, let Rios lead off, and unless they can also trade Teahen, he could play the outfield.
Quentin in Lf, Rios in CF, and Teahen in RF.

doublem23
12-02-2010, 06:08 PM
Gavin and Quentin is much closer in value for Colby. What was suggested was Viciedo and Quentin. I have no idea where Dayan would be playing in St. Louis.

Ah, crossed wires.

I would also like to note that I have no desire to give up on Dayan yet. If he can learn a smidgen of plate discipline, he will be a MONSTER

russ99
12-02-2010, 06:14 PM
Ah, crossed wires.

I would also like to note that I have no desire to give up on Dayan yet. If he can learn a smidgen of plate discipline, he will be a MONSTER

Dayan should be our power bat off the bench and play once/twice a week. AAA isn't as good for him as learning directly from Ozzie, Cora, Vizquel and to a lesser extent Alexei.

DirtySox
12-02-2010, 06:15 PM
Touche.
Actually, I said that with that lineup, let Rios lead off, and unless they can also trade Teahen, he could play the outfield.
Quentin in Lf, Rios in CF, and Teahen in RF.

Sorry, just poking fun. Whenever I see your name, I think of De Aza. :smile:

Lillian
12-02-2010, 06:18 PM
Sorry, just poking fun. Whenever I see your name, I think of De Aza. :smile:

Don't worry, no offense taken.

I think Teahen could be a decent additional left handed bat to fill out, and compliment that lineup.
His defense would not be nearly as big of a liability in RF, as it would be at third.

Domeshot17
12-02-2010, 06:18 PM
Dayan should be our power bat off the bench and play once/twice a week. AAA isn't as good for him as learning directly from Ozzie, Cora, Vizquel and to a lesser extent Alexei.

Dayan needs to stay far far away from Ozzie and Cora. They aren't going to teach him how to hit. He needs to attach himself to Adam Dunn and Omar can translate.

doublem23
12-02-2010, 06:19 PM
Dayan should be our power bat off the bench and play once/twice a week. AAA isn't as good for him as learning directly from Ozzie, Cora, Vizquel and to a lesser extent Alexei.

I don't know about that, Dayan's problems aren't that he isn't fitting in American society, his problem is he swings at everything. I think that still needs to be worked out by playing everyday. He's only 21 years old, a year in AAA wouldn't be exactly out of the ordinary for his age.

KMcMahon817
12-02-2010, 06:24 PM
No salary relief there. He makes nowhere near what Jackson does, and is under team control for several more seasons.

Quentin and Viciedo to STL for Colby Rasmus, and everyone is happy.

And the Cards would have interested in Viciedo because......? They have the best first baseman in baseball.

soxinem1
12-02-2010, 06:42 PM
That isn't even close to enough for Rasmus.

Why? You might get 50-60 HR from the two, and even in an off year Quentin still had the RBI.

Viciedo will hit. He just needs the AB's.

Are we supposed to throw Floyd in too?

doublem23
12-02-2010, 06:44 PM
Why? You might get 50-60 HR from the two, and even in an off year Quentin still had the RBI.

Viciedo will hit. He just needs the AB's.

Are we supposed to throw Floyd in too?

And where does he get them in St. Louis?

DirtySox
12-02-2010, 06:46 PM
Why? You might get 50-60 HR from the two, and even in an off year Quentin still had the RBI.

Viciedo will hit. He just needs the AB's.

Are we supposed to throw Floyd in too?

I don't think the Cards would want Dayan period. Dayan is a butcher defensively, and his obvious home is at 1B. The Cardinals have a decent player there already. Viciedo is nothing but an average prospect until/if he learns some plate discipline. Carlos is a headcase who is also brutal in the field and has disappointed his past 2 seasons offensively. On top of that he is starting to get expensive. The value of both these players combined is not close to what Rasmus is worth.

Floyd and Quentin is a better possibility. Perhaps Floyd, Viciedo (if they think he could play a corner OF spot), and Eduardo Escobar.

JermaineDye05
12-02-2010, 07:32 PM
konerko situation: az is unlikely, he always rejects balt, #cubs (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23cubs) want lefty hitter (pena? laroche?). #chisox (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23chisox) in good spot less than 20 seconds ago (http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyman/status/10506413709201408) via web
http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/190827556/jon_heyman_bigger.jpg (http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyman)
SI_JonHeyman (http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyman)

Randar68
12-02-2010, 11:01 PM
Kenny's handled this perfectly. Both Paul and A.J. are due for a pay cut, we all know this, despite Konerko's numbers last year.

The thing is, I am tempted to let Konerko walk, pick up the draft picks, and sign DLee for like 7-8 million a year (he isn't going to make more than that, is he? meanwhile what is Paulie likely to get... 10-12m?). I can't imagine he will make more than Paulie and he is a better defensive 1B than Paulie to boot. You can DH him to give him some rest on occasion in the AL.

soltrain21
12-02-2010, 11:13 PM
The thing is, I am tempted to let Konerko walk, pick up the draft picks, and sign DLee for like 7-8 million a year (he isn't going to make more than that, is he? meanwhile what is Paulie likely to get... 10-12m?). I can't imagine he will make more than Paulie and he is a better defensive 1B than Paulie to boot. You can DH him to give him some rest on occasion in the AL.

That might work. You could get some bullpen help that way, too. However, I really want walnuts back now.

guillen4life13
12-02-2010, 11:38 PM
The thing is, I am tempted to let Konerko walk, pick up the draft picks, and sign DLee for like 7-8 million a year (he isn't going to make more than that, is he? meanwhile what is Paulie likely to get... 10-12m?). I can't imagine he will make more than Paulie and he is a better defensive 1B than Paulie to boot. You can DH him to give him some rest on occasion in the AL.

Objectively, this seems like a good idea... but Paulie is our guy. I don't want him to leave if they can help it.

If the savings on Lee go towards building up a strong bullpen, I'll be happy with it. I simply can't expect Paulie to duplicate last season's performance ever again. He'll be 35 next season, coming off a career year. The only people who have ever sustained such success past 35 (after arguably his best season as a 34 year old) had extra help. I'm not saying I think Paulie is on the juice, but I'm saying that it would be unreasonable to expect a clean ballplayer to keep up that performance. I actually expect a somewhat significant decline in performance over the coming 2-3 years.

Nellie_Fox
12-03-2010, 12:05 AM
Viciedo will hit. He just needs the AB's.What are you basing this assumption on?

DirtySox
12-03-2010, 12:06 AM
What are you basing this assumption on?

All White Sox prospects pan out.

Daver
12-03-2010, 12:13 AM
All White Sox prospects pan out.

Just look at the last 15 years of first round picks.

DumpJerry
12-03-2010, 12:38 AM
All White Sox prospects pan out.
Like Lance Broadway?

JermaineDye05
12-03-2010, 01:38 AM
Like Lance Broadway?

I think teal was implied.

gf2020
12-03-2010, 03:15 AM
Phil Rogers, ever the wet blanket, says Konerko is still likely gone.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/ct-spt-1203-phil-rogers-on-sox-20101202,0,5318569.column

ZombieRob
12-03-2010, 03:47 AM
Phil Rogers, ever the wet blanket, says Konerko is still likely gone.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/ct-spt-1203-phil-rogers-on-sox-20101202,0,5318569.column
Probably pissed and stewing at the fact is beloved Cubbies didn't get him.

ClutchHarold#3
12-03-2010, 04:10 AM
I think the fact Phil Rogers says PK's gone means he'll be re-signing with the Sox before the weekend's over. This is the same numbskull who, a little while ago, seriously wanted to trade general managers and about 15 players in some genius deal with the Cubs!

Boondock Saint
12-03-2010, 05:30 AM
The Sox are getting "older and less athletic"? I guess Alexei, Morel, Beckham, Rios, Quentin, Danks, Floyd, Jackson, Sale and Santos have to go. Too old, not enough athleticism.

spawn
12-03-2010, 05:57 AM
The Sox are getting "older and less athletic"? I guess Alexei, Morel, Beckham, Rios, Quentin, Danks, Floyd, Jackson, Sale and Santos have to go. Too old, not enough athleticism.

It's Phil Progers. He seems to enjoy being Buzz Killington.

BringHomeDaBacon
12-03-2010, 07:07 AM
The Sox are getting "older and less athletic"? I guess Alexei, Morel, Beckham, Rios, Quentin, Danks, Floyd, Jackson, Sale and Santos have to go. Too old, not enough athleticism.

Those are fairly pathetic examples to rebut that notion. Five are pitchers, one hasn't proven a damn thing and the other's best position is probably DH.

Aside from Alexei, Beckham and Rios there really isn't anyone that qualifies as "young and athletic". As long as they can hit 30-40 HRs (Konerko and Dunn) or are in fact athletic (Pierre) it won't matter much at least next year.

I don't include Morel because I am getting sick and tired of everyone around here acting like he's a sure thing.

Boondock Saint
12-03-2010, 07:26 AM
Those are fairly pathetic examples to rebut that notion. Five are pitchers, one hasn't proven a damn thing and the other's best position is probably DH.

Aside from Alexei, Beckham and Rios there really isn't anyone that qualifies as "young and athletic". As long as they can hit 30-40 HRs (Konerko and Dunn) or are in fact athletic (Pierre) it won't matter much at least next year.

I don't include Morel because I am getting sick and tired of everyone around here acting like he's a sure thing.

1) Young and athletic doesn't mean "Young and athletic position players".

2) "Hasn't proven anything" doesn't mean "Isn't young or athletic".

3) Nobody said anything in this thread about Morel being a sure thing. He's young, and he's athletic. Period.

4) Phil Rogers is a total idiot, and you shouldn't defend his moronic, baseless garbage.

doublem23
12-03-2010, 08:14 AM
Those are fairly pathetic examples to rebut that notion. Five are pitchers, one hasn't proven a damn thing and the other's best position is probably DH.

Aside from Alexei, Beckham and Rios there really isn't anyone that qualifies as "young and athletic". As long as they can hit 30-40 HRs (Konerko and Dunn) or are in fact athletic (Pierre) it won't matter much at least next year.

I don't include Morel because I am getting sick and tired of everyone around here acting like he's a sure thing.

:prozac

johnnyg83
12-03-2010, 08:28 AM
If you're dismissing pitchers, then there are only 13-15 players to talk about. And there are a few roster spots not set yet, so this team could end up younger and "athletic-er" than last year.

And Pierre and Vizquel may not be young age-wise but they're both athletic and play "young."

So the dudes who're neither young nor athletic (and signed):

Castro
AJ
Dunn
Teahan (he's 29)

asindc
12-03-2010, 09:18 AM
Those are fairly pathetic examples to rebut that notion. Five are pitchers, one hasn't proven a damn thing and the other's best position is probably DH.

Aside from Alexei, Beckham and Rios there really isn't anyone that qualifies as "young and athletic". As long as they can hit 30-40 HRs (Konerko and Dunn) or are in fact athletic (Pierre) it won't matter much at least next year.

I don't include Morel because I am getting sick and tired of everyone around here acting like he's a sure thing.

I think it is fairly pathetic that it is not obvious to everyone who follows the Sox that Dunn is younger and more athletic than the person he replaced, Mark Kotsay, so the notion that his signing makes the team older and less athletic is just plain wrong.

beasly213
12-03-2010, 10:41 AM
Ken_Rosenthal





Source: #White (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23White) Sox, Konerko's agent set to meet at winter meetings. Konerko ready to get serious with Sox and other interested clubs

soltrain21
12-03-2010, 11:06 AM
Ken_Rosenthal





Source: #White (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23White) Sox, Konerko's agent set to meet at winter meetings. Konerko ready to get serious with Sox and other interested clubs



Don't even talk to other teams. Cmon, Paulie.

beasly213
12-03-2010, 11:07 AM
Don't even talk to other teams. Cmon, Paulie.

He has said from the start that it won't be all about the money. If he goes to Arizona, Baltimore, or the Cubs we know he's full of it.

Over By There
12-03-2010, 11:18 AM
He has said from the start that it won't be all about the money. If he goes to Arizona, Baltimore, or the Cubs we know he's full of it.

At this point, unless there are other contenders out there that we just haven't heard about, Paulie's little speech would come across as pretty disingenuous if he signed anywhere but with the Sox. It's hard to make an argument that any of the other teams rumored to be interested have a better chance to make the playoffs than the Sox.

spawn
12-03-2010, 11:18 AM
He has said from the start that it won't be all about the money. If he goes to Arizona, Baltimore, or the Cubs we know he's full of it.
If he goes to Arizona, it won't be about the money IMO. The Cubs or Baltimore? Yes.

What other teams could be in the market for his service? I haven't really paid attention to other teams' first base needs.

beasly213
12-03-2010, 11:35 AM
If he goes to Arizona, it won't be about the money IMO. The Cubs or Baltimore? Yes.

What other teams could be in the market for his service? I haven't really paid attention to other teams' first base needs.

I haven't read anyone else is in the market for him but who knows. Thinking of contenders around the league I can't seem to find anyone but you never know what team will come out of no where.

Maybe Kenny and him had talks about improving the team before he comes back. Signing Dunn and AJ shows they are in win now mode for at least the next couple of years.

whitem0nkey
12-03-2010, 11:39 AM
Even if Konerko goes elsewhere, there are capable players available to approximate the production one would reasonably expect from that position.

Domeshot17
12-03-2010, 11:39 AM
If he goes to Arizona, it won't be about the money IMO. The Cubs or Baltimore? Yes.

What other teams could be in the market for his service? I haven't really paid attention to other teams' first base needs.

Possibly not with Baltimore. IIRC his parents and most his family is from that area

PalehosePlanet
12-03-2010, 12:08 PM
I think it is fairly pathetic that it is not obvious to everyone who follows the Sox that Dunn is younger and more athletic than the person he replaced, Mark Kotsay, so the notion that his signing makes the team older and less athletic is just plain wrong.

Exactly! And he's younger and more athletic than Konerko too, should that be the case. I can't believe that BA still has Rogers writing the Sox minor league report and rankings, considering he's totally unqualified.

As for Pauly, I hope he decides either way by the end of the meetings on 12/9, that way we don't miss out on other potential FA's waiting for his answer.

Randar68
12-03-2010, 12:18 PM
Even if Konerko goes elsewhere, there are capable players available to approximate the production one would reasonably expect from that position.

Bingo, I would not be surprised to see DLee sign for one less year and average 2-4m per season less than Konerko. Given that, can you justify signing Konerko over DLee + a proven bullpen if you take emotion out of it?

PalehosePlanet
12-03-2010, 12:21 PM
Bingo, I would not be surprised to see DLee sign for one less year and average 2-4m per season less than Konerko. Given that, can you justify signing Konerko over DLee + a proven bullpen if you take emotion out of it?

IMO, Lee won't get anywhere near Konerko money. My guess is he'll probably do a 1/7 or 2/15 type of deal.

esbrechtel
12-03-2010, 12:29 PM
I am a huge Konerko fan but all emotions aside the recent surgery makes me question what Lee brings to the table.

guillensdisciple
12-03-2010, 12:32 PM
Disappointed that Paulie would even look at other clubs, but hey, not everyone is what they seem.

asindc
12-03-2010, 12:35 PM
Disappointed that Paulie would even look at other clubs, but hey, not everyone is what they seem.

I don't blame him for exploring other options, but I will be upset if he signs with Baltimore, the Cubs, or some other non-contending team after the comments he made this offseason and his failure to consistently earn the level of his contract (one of the many, many reasons the Sox failed in 2006, 2007, and 2009).

CHISOXFAN13
12-03-2010, 12:49 PM
Disappointed that Paulie would even look at other clubs, but hey, not everyone is what they seem.

You wouldn't market yourself to find the best fit possible?

Puhlease.

hi im skot
12-03-2010, 12:51 PM
Disappointed that Paulie would even look at other clubs, but hey, not everyone is what they seem.

Konerko doesn't owe us anything. He has every right to explore other options. He has a family to think about, too.

I love my job and love being in Chicago, but if another company called me today and offered a pretty significant boost in salary, you're goddamn right I'm going to at least look into it.

spawn
12-03-2010, 12:54 PM
Konerko doesn't owe us anything. He has every right to explore other options. He has a family to think about, too.

I love my job and love being in Chicago, but if another company called me today and offered a pretty significant boost in salary, you're goddamn right I'm going to at least look into it.
Yeah, I don't fault him for exploring his options. It's what free agency is all about.

Chez
12-03-2010, 01:00 PM
Bingo, I would not be surprised to see DLee sign for one less year and average 2-4m per season less than Konerko. Given that, can you justify signing Konerko over DLee + a proven bullpen if you take emotion out of it?

Absolutely. Did you watch DLee last season? He can no longer catch up to an average fastball belt high or above. Lee could be this off-season's Jermaine Dye and end up watching the 2011 season from home.

guillensdisciple
12-03-2010, 01:01 PM
I don't blame him for exploring other options, but I will be upset if he signs with Baltimore, the Cubs, or some other non-contending team after the comments he made this offseason and his failure to consistently earn the level of his contract (one of the many, many reasons the Sox failed in 2006, 2007, and 2009).

You wouldn't market yourself to find the best fit possible?

Puhlease.

Konerko doesn't owe us anything. He has every right to explore other options. He has a family to think about, too.

I love my job and love being in Chicago, but if another company called me today and offered a pretty significant boost in salary, you're goddamn right I'm going to at least look into it.

Yeah, I don't fault him for exploring his options. It's what free agency is all about.

I understand what you guys mean, I just have always taken loyalty above all else. You're right though, it's the mans right so forget my post LOL

hi im skot
12-03-2010, 01:10 PM
I understand what you guys mean, I just have always taken loyalty above all else. You're right though, it's the mans right so forget my post LOL

Loyalty to whom?

White Sox fans? The entire organization? His family? Himself?

Konerko is a stand-up guy, no doubt. If he goes somewhere else, I don't blame him one bit.

guillensdisciple
12-03-2010, 01:14 PM
Loyalty to whom?

White Sox fans? The entire organization? His family? Himself?

Konerko is a stand-up guy, no doubt. If he goes somewhere else, I don't blame him one bit.


Organization. I will cheer for him in whatever uniform he chooses, but I know that I would have made a different choice in his shoes if he chooses another club. That's all.

spawn
12-03-2010, 01:17 PM
Organization. I will cheer for him in whatever uniform he chooses, but I know that I would have made a different choice in his shoes if he chooses another club. That's all.
Oh come on now. You're speaking from a fan's perspective. You have no idea what Konerko is thinking, about his relationship with the organization, what his family wants and needs, or his OWN wants and needs. He needs to do what he considers best for him and his family, not what's bext for Sox fans.

hi im skot
12-03-2010, 01:26 PM
Organization. I will cheer for him in whatever uniform he chooses, but I know that I would have made a different choice in his shoes if he chooses another club. That's all.

I think you missed the point I was trying to make.

And spawn is right - we have no idea what's going on behind the scenes. Maybe everything isn't so hunky dory in the clubhouse, or maybe he's got some family issues and distance is making the situation more difficult.

Who knows? Unless he decides to have his own version of "THE DECISION", I can't hate Paul Konerko even a little bit.

Nellie_Fox
12-03-2010, 01:29 PM
Konerko doesn't owe us anything. He has every right to explore other options. He has a family to think about, too.While I absolutely support his right to explore the free market, this always cracks me up when we're talking about pro athletes who've already made more money than they or their descendants could reasonably spend in several generations. Like when Sprewell turned down $13 million a year because "I've got a family to feed." :rolleyes:

spawn
12-03-2010, 01:31 PM
Like when Sprewell turned down $13 million a year because "I've got a family to feed." :rolleyes:
Well, he did. I mean, filet mignon, lobster, eating at the finest restaurants...those things aren't cheap. :redneck

DSpivack
12-03-2010, 01:34 PM
While I absolutely support his right to explore the free market, this always cracks me up when we're talking about pro athletes who've already made more money than they or their descendants could reasonably spend in several generations. Like when Sprewell turned down $13 million a year because "I've got a family to feed." :rolleyes:

Family considerations for him would be going to the Diamondbacks. That I'd understand.

Luke
12-03-2010, 01:38 PM
While I absolutely support his right to explore the free market, this always cracks me up when we're talking about pro athletes who've already made more money than they or their descendants could reasonably spend in several generations. Like when Sprewell turned down $13 million a year because "I've got a family to feed." :rolleyes:

In Paul's case I took family considerations to mean playing for a team that would allow him to spend more time with his family out west, versus providing for them.

kittle42
12-03-2010, 01:42 PM
Organization. I will cheer for him in whatever uniform he chooses, but I know that I would have made a different choice in his shoes if he chooses another club. That's all.

You can't say that unless you've been there.

hi im skot
12-03-2010, 01:44 PM
While I absolutely support his right to explore the free market, this always cracks me up when we're talking about pro athletes who've already made more money than they or their descendants could reasonably spend in several generations. Like when Sprewell turned down $13 million a year because "I've got a family to feed." :rolleyes:

Family considerations for him would be going to the Diamondbacks. That I'd understand.

In Paul's case I took family considerations to mean playing for a team that would allow him to spend more time with his family out west, versus providing for them.

Exactly my point. Konerko already said it has nothing to do with money.

But again, if I can cash out AND be in a better position mentally, I'm interested.

kittle42
12-03-2010, 01:44 PM
While I absolutely support his right to explore the free market, this always cracks me up when we're talking about pro athletes who've already made more money than they or their descendants could reasonably spend in several generations. Like when Sprewell turned down $13 million a year because "I've got a family to feed." :rolleyes:

I was waiting for this post. You spend to your means. When I was working at big law firms, I hardly noticed a difference between the $125k I started with and the $230k I finished with, yet most people would kill for $105k. You spend to your means.

Having been both pretty damn poor and what many would consider rich, I begrudge no athlete, celebrity, etc. for getting more money. A few million to them simply does not mean what it does to 99.9% of the world.

russ99
12-03-2010, 02:01 PM
If Konerko wants to come back, the dude's gotta be kicking himself for not accepting arbitration. He'll never see that kind of raise from the White Sox now with Dunn signed.

DirtySox
12-03-2010, 02:02 PM
If Konerko wants to come back, the dude's gotta be kicking himself for not accepting arbitration. He'll never see that kind of raise from the White Sox now with Dunn signed.

I'd imagine the years and job security are a much bigger draw then the annual amount right now.

Nellie_Fox
12-03-2010, 02:06 PM
Konerko already said it has nothing to do with money.With very few exceptions, that's what they all say.

And for Kittle42, yeah, I could spend my way into needing $250K if I got used to it, but you REALLY have to spend like an idiot to get to where you NEED $15 million a year to maintain your lifestyle.

DirtySox
12-03-2010, 02:08 PM
Probably should be posted in this thread as well, but both Dunn and AJ deferred some of their 1st year contract salary in order to have more room to try and sign PK.

NLaloosh
12-03-2010, 02:25 PM
If I were Paulie I would be insulted. If a .250 hitting DH that strikes out 200 times a year is worth $ 14 mil. a year what's Paulie worth ? $ 25 mil. per?

asindc
12-03-2010, 02:28 PM
If I were Paulie I would be insulted. If a .250 hitting DH that strikes out 200 times a year is worth $ 14 mil. a year what's Paulie worth ? $ 25 mil. per?

No. Konerko has never been consistent as Dunn, and he is four years older.

soltrain21
12-03-2010, 02:30 PM
If I were Paulie I would be insulted. If a .250 hitting DH that strikes out 200 times a year is worth $ 14 mil. a year what's Paulie worth ? $ 25 mil. per?


This is old already.

russ99
12-03-2010, 02:31 PM
No. Konerko has never been consistent as Dunn, and he is four years older.

Paul made $12M each of the last four years, it's not like was he was being paid peanuts.

The rub is if he'll take the same amount or preferably a bit less to come back. Any rumors of teams offering him $14M out in the open market?

beasly213
12-03-2010, 02:42 PM
If I were Paulie I would be insulted. If a .250 hitting DH that strikes out 200 times a year is worth $ 14 mil. a year what's Paulie worth ? $ 25 mil. per?

I disagree with Dan Bernstein on a LOT of his baseball thoughts and points. But one point I agree with him 100% on is the strikeout argument. Being that strikeouts aren't any worse than a pop up or a ground out. An out is an out. Yes strikeouts look bad but people get wayyyyy to caught up in the strikeout numbers.

Lip Man 1
12-03-2010, 02:43 PM
For what it's worth one of the assistant coaches here at Idaho State, Cody Van Fleet played golf in Scottsdale this past summer and his caddie pointed out Konerko's house. It's located on the 9th hole of the course, is three stories high and he has an "Irish Pub" on the 3rd floor which overlooks the golf course.

Caddy told Cody, everyone likes PK out in Scottsdale, that he's a good guy.

Lip

LoveYourSuit
12-03-2010, 02:48 PM
If I were Paulie I would be insulted. If a .250 hitting DH that strikes out 200 times a year is worth $ 14 mil. a year what's Paulie worth ? $ 25 mil. per?


Selective stats once againg to make a stupid ass point :rolleyes:

VMSNS
12-03-2010, 02:48 PM
Pretty much every single article I've read regarding Konerko has asserted that the chances of PK signing with Baltimore are almost zero, even if it's for big money.

Hopefully the White Sox are the main players for him, but I'd bet that Texas and the Angels are going to be the other serious bidders.

dickallen15
12-03-2010, 02:53 PM
I disagree with Dan Bernstein on a LOT of his baseball thoughts and points. But one point I agree with him 100% on is the strikeout argument. Being that strikeouts aren't any worse than a pop up or a ground out. An out is an out. Yes strikeouts look bad but people get wayyyyy to caught up in the strikeout numbers.

Strikeouts suck. Runners don't advance. Fielders don't have to make plays or make errors. You can downplay strikeouts all you want but remember strikeouts "aren't any different from any other out" when the Sox have guys at 2nd and 3rd with nobody out and the next 2 guys up strikeout.

Dunn makes up for his strikeouts with getting on base and hitting the ball out of the park. If he was a .320 OBP guy who hit 12 homers, strikeouts would be a huge issue.

asindc
12-03-2010, 02:57 PM
I disagree with Dan Bernstein on a LOT of his baseball thoughts and points. But one point I agree with him 100% on is the strikeout argument. Being that strikeouts aren't any worse than a pop up or a ground out. An out is an out. Yes strikeouts look bad but people get wayyyyy to caught up in the strikeout numbers.

Strikeouts suck. Runners don't advance. Fielders don't have to make plays or make errors. You can downplay strikeouts all you want but remember strikeouts "aren't any different from any other out" when the Sox have guys at 2nd and 3rd with nobody out and the next 2 guys up strikeout.

Dunn makes up for his strikeouts with getting on base and hitting the ball out of the park. If he was a .320 OBP guy who hit 12 homers, strikeouts would be a huge issue.

While I'm in favor of the Dunn signing whether or not Konerko is re-signed, I wholeheartedly disagree that Ks are for the most part no different than any other out. If you took two different teams and had one of them K at the average rate and the other never strikout, with all else being equal the 'never strikeout' team would without a doubt score more runs.

Daver
12-03-2010, 03:01 PM
An out is an out. Yes strikeouts look bad but people get wayyyyy to caught up in the strikeout numbers.

No.

Putting the ball in play is always the better of the two because anything can happen with a ball in play, but a dropped third strike almost never results in a runner on first.

beasly213
12-03-2010, 03:03 PM
Strikeouts suck. Runners don't advance. Fielders don't have to make plays or make errors. You can downplay strikeouts all you want but remember strikeouts "aren't any different from any other out" when the Sox have guys at 2nd and 3rd with nobody out and the next 2 guys up strikeout.

Dunn makes up for his strikeouts with getting on base and hitting the ball out of the park. If he was a .320 OBP guy who hit 12 homers, strikeouts would be a huge issue.

Ok I agree with you the only time a strikeout is bad is if there is a runner on 2nd/3rd with nobody out or 1 out. BUT it is no worse than hiting a weak grounder to the pitcher, or a pop up to an infielder. You are assuming the balls hit into play always get the runners over. A ball in play isn't always effective.

You said it would be a big issue if he was a .320 on base guy... he's not. He's and almost .400 on base guy.

doublem23
12-03-2010, 03:04 PM
No.

Putting the ball in play is always the better of the two because anything can happen with a ball in play, but a dropped third strike almost never results in a runner on first.

And there are also times when a strikeout is better than a ball in play, like say, when you have a runner on 1st base and less than 2 outs. Ground balls are killers then.

Maybe an out on the ground is a smidgen more productive than a K, but not by much, at all. If the basis of your offense is we're going to make those infielders screw up routine ground balls, you're offense is going to suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck.

beasly213
12-03-2010, 03:05 PM
While I'm in favor of the Dunn signing whether or not Konerko is re-signed, I wholeheartedly disagree that Ks are for the most part no different than any other out. If you took two different teams and had one of them K at the average rate and the other never strikout, with all else being equal the 'never strikeout' team would without a doubt score more runs.

You're assuming those balls put in play are hard hit balls or hit in a place where there is a hole. If you had a team of contact guys like Juan Pierre that never strike out but always put the ball in play and had another team of Dunns that strike out a lot AND have an OBP of almost .400 the ladder team would score more runs.

asindc
12-03-2010, 03:10 PM
You're assuming those balls put in play are hard hit balls or hit in a place where there is a hole. If you had a team of contact guys like Juan Pierre that never strike out but always put the ball in play and had another team of Dunns that strike out a lot AND have an OBP of almost .400 the ladder team would score more runs.

I'm assuming no such thing. When I said, "all else being equal," (which is what the bolded part of your post does not take into account) that meant putting that ball in play also resulted in an out.

soxnut1018
12-03-2010, 03:11 PM
If he was a .320 OBP guy who hit 12 homers, strikeouts would be a huge issue.

This hurts my head.

NLaloosh
12-03-2010, 03:12 PM
Selective stats once againg to make a stupid ass point :rolleyes:

Which points don't you like? That Dunn is a DH while Paulie is a solid fielder? Or that Dunn is a .250 hitter and Paulie hits 30 something points higher? Or that Dunn strikes out twice as often as Konerko (yes, it matters - have you ever heard of moving runners over, sacrifice flies etc.

Or, is it that Dunn has never played on a winning team and has not once finished in the top 20 in MVP voting...he has so many shortcomings it's ridiculous.

The only thing he does as well as Paulie is hit as many homers. Oh yeah, and now he'll be playing in the AL where players performances don't get better but usually worse. He's never played in the pennant race much less playoff games.


You're right. You do make s stupid ass point:rolleyes:

Paulie is the only proffesional hitter that the Sox have (or had). Dunn is fine for the DH spot for the Sox - just not for $ 56 mi. He's not worth NEAR that.

Daver
12-03-2010, 03:15 PM
And there are also times when a strikeout is better than a ball in play, like say, when you have a runner on 1st base and less than 2 outs. Ground balls are killers then.

Maybe an out on the ground is a smidgen more productive than a K, but not by much, at all. If the basis of your offense is we're going to make those infielders screw up routine ground balls, you're offense is going to suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck.

Like the 2010 White Sox?

sox1970
12-03-2010, 03:16 PM
Dunn by year-- 12, 14, 15, 15
AJ- 2 and 6

That frees up 4 mil for next year for Paulie.

Corlose 15
12-03-2010, 03:20 PM
Strikeouts suck. Runners don't advance. Fielders don't have to make plays or make errors. You can downplay strikeouts all you want but remember strikeouts "aren't any different from any other out" when the Sox have guys at 2nd and 3rd with nobody out and the next 2 guys up strikeout.

Dunn makes up for his strikeouts with getting on base and hitting the ball out of the park. If he was a .320 OBP guy who hit 12 homers, strikeouts would be a huge issue.

Exactly. Strikeouts count as one out just the same as anything other, but they're frustrating as hell when they come with a runner on 3rd and less than 2 out.

KenBerryGrab
12-03-2010, 03:25 PM
Strikeouts are better than double-play ground balls.

Nellie_Fox
12-03-2010, 03:37 PM
...strikeouts aren't any worse than a pop up or a ground out. An out is an out. Yes strikeouts look bad but people get wayyyyy to caught up in the strikeout numbers.
I've pointed this out before; this argument is based on a "false dichotomy." The choice isn't between a strikeout and another type of out. The choice is between a strikeout and "not a strikeout." "Not a strikeout" is a walk or the ball put in play.

So, let's say that a guy reduces his strikeouts by fifty in a year. Not all fifty of those will be pop-ups or ground outs. Some will be walks. Those are better than strikeouts. Some will be balls in play, so you can apply his BABIP to those to figure that a significant number of them will be hits. Yes, a few might result in double plays, but I guarantee you that more of those fifty plate appearances will result in an outcome that is better than an out than will result in a double play.

central44
12-03-2010, 03:58 PM
Phil Rogers seems to think that it's "almost certainly not going to happen." :rolleyes:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/ct-spt-1203-phil-rogers-on-sox-20101202,0,5318569.column

Sometimes I think he says stuff just to say it, or be controversial.

beasly213
12-03-2010, 04:06 PM
I've pointed this out before; this argument is based on a "false dichotomy." The choice isn't between a strikeout and another type of out. The choice is between a strikeout and "not a strikeout." "Not a strikeout" is a walk or the ball put in play.

So, let's say that a guy reduces his strikeouts by fifty in a year. Not all fifty of those will be pop-ups or ground outs. Some will be walks. Those are better than strikeouts. Some will be balls in play, so you can apply his BABIP to those to figure that a significant number of them will be hits. Yes, a few might result in double plays, but I guarantee you that more of those fifty plate appearances will result in an outcome that is better than an out than will result in a double play.

There are arguments on both sides of this but really it comes down to the type of player you are talking about.

Adam Dunn strikes out a lot true but he also is on base nearly 40% of the time and hits 40 Home Runs every year.

If you had a guy that struck out a lot and had a low OBP then yes you would want him to be more of a contact hitter rather than swinging for the fences.

soltrain21
12-03-2010, 04:08 PM
Phil Rogers seems to think that it's "almost certainly not going to happen." :rolleyes:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/ct-spt-1203-phil-rogers-on-sox-20101202,0,5318569.column

Sometimes I think he says stuff just to say it, or be controversial.

So, if Dunn isn't "eager to become a DH" then why did he sign his contract backloaded so they could bring back Konerko to, you know, play first base?

Phil Rogers is the dumbest person on the planet. How this clown has a job (let alone one writing about baseball) while other talented people are out there without jobs is beyond me.

beasly213
12-03-2010, 04:11 PM
So, if Dunn isn't "eager to become a DH" then why did he sign his contract backloaded so they could bring back Konerko to, you know, play first base?

Phil Rogers is the dumbest person on the planet. How this clown has a job (let alone one writing about baseball) while other talented people are out there without jobs is beyond me.

Dunn was on B & B. Bernstein flat out asked him if it would be OK if he took all his gloves away from him would he be OK with that. Dunn replied with "Absolutely because if that means we're going to win I'm all for that."

Nellie_Fox
12-03-2010, 04:12 PM
There are arguments on both sides of this but really it comes down to the type of player you are talking about.

Adam Dunn strikes out a lot true but he also is on base nearly 40% of the time and hits 40 Home Runs every year.

If you had a guy that struck out a lot and had a low OBP then yes you would want him to be more of a contact hitter rather than swinging for the fences.But that has nothing to do with the original statement that I was addressing, that being that it doesn't matter whether you strike out or make an out another way, which is a false dichotomy.

Randar68
12-03-2010, 04:15 PM
Absolutely. Did you watch DLee last season? He can no longer catch up to an average fastball belt high or above. Lee could be this off-season's Jermaine Dye and end up watching the 2011 season from home.

Did you watch him in Atlanta? Just had a neck/back issue that never healed all the way with the Cubs.

Meanwhile, PK has a degenerative hip issue and runs like the love child of a penguin and a hippo. So what?

soltrain21
12-03-2010, 04:19 PM
Did you watch him in Atlanta? Just had a neck/back issue that never healed all the way with the Cubs.

Meanwhile, PK has a degenerative hip issue and runs like the love child of a penguin and a hippo. So what?

So you are saying he runs very seductively?

DonnieDarko
12-03-2010, 04:20 PM
Konerko has a degenerative hip disorder? What? :?:

beasly213
12-03-2010, 04:20 PM
But that has nothing to do with the original statement that I was addressing, that being that it doesn't matter whether you strike out or make an out another way, which is a false dichotomy.

So a strike out is different than a foul out behind home plate, a weak ground out to the pitcher or a pop up to an infielder how?

bigsoxfan420
12-03-2010, 04:21 PM
Did you watch him in Atlanta? Just had a neck/back issue that never healed all the way with the Cubs.

Meanwhile, PK has a degenerative hip issue and runs like the love child of a penguin and a hippo. So what?

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3496/3817885458_b7490734a3.jpg

Luke
12-03-2010, 04:31 PM
So a strike out is different than a foul out behind home plate, a weak ground out to the pitcher or a pop up to an infielder how?

What it means is that if a player strikes out 50 less times, those 50 plates appearances aren't automatically replaced with unproductive outs, or even outs for that matter.

Lillian
12-03-2010, 05:10 PM
I've pointed this out before; this argument is based on a "false dichotomy." The choice isn't between a strikeout and another type of out. The choice is between a strikeout and "not a strikeout." "Not a strikeout" is a walk or the ball put in play.

So, let's say that a guy reduces his strikeouts by fifty in a year. Not all fifty of those will be pop-ups or ground outs. Some will be walks. Those are better than strikeouts. Some will be balls in play, so you can apply his BABIP to those to figure that a significant number of them will be hits. Yes, a few might result in double plays, but I guarantee you that more of those fifty plate appearances will result in an outcome that is better than an out than will result in a double play.

Yes, of course, if a strike out were replaced with a ball hit in play, some of those batted balls would result in hits, and sacrifices. However, that simply means that the player's batting average, OBP, and other numbers would improve.
The bottom line is that if a player can get on base, and drive in runs at a sufficient rate, while striking out a great deal of the time, that still makes him a valuable offensive contributor.
Asserting that Dunn would be an even better offensive player if he could put more balls in play is valid. However, as long as he is able to get on base at his career rate of .381, and hit homers and drive in runs, he is a valuable offensive player, even with the high strike outs.

Although not analagous, it reminds me a little of Hawk Harrelson's fallacious argument that Jerry Owens could have raised his average by 50 points, simply by getting one bunt hit per week. Yes, that would have produced 25 hits per year. However, that argument fails to consider the number of failed attempts to bunt his way on. Unless he could have been successful every time he attempted to bunt for a hit, his average would not have been raised by 50 points per season. If he were only successful bunting at the same rate as his attempts to hit his way on in the conventional way, then his average would not be effected at all.

The hitter's stats ultimately reflect the net result of his efforts to reach base, and drive in runs. The strike outs are just one of the ways in which the batter fails to accomplish that. We have to evaluate a players efficiency based upon that final result.

doublem23
12-03-2010, 05:14 PM
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3496/3817885458_b7490734a3.jpg

Man the internet has everything

keloms
12-03-2010, 05:25 PM
Jon Heyman was just on MLB Hot Stove talking about Konerko and said that everybody believes that he wants to stay with the Sox and expects that he'll be re-signing in the neighborhood of 3yrs/$40 million.

Lip Man 1
12-03-2010, 06:27 PM
http://img2.timeinc.net/ew/dynamic/imgs/080401/Bull-Durham-baseball_l.jpg

"Strikeouts are fascist's...throw more ground balls, they're democratic..."

Lip

JermaineDye05
12-03-2010, 06:46 PM
I'm just curious, do other beat writers think Phil Rogers is a joke too?

DirtySox
12-03-2010, 06:51 PM
I'm just curious, do other beat writers think Phil Rogers is a joke too?

Cowley does. So does Brett Ballantini. Both frequently blast his columns on Twitter.

Zisk77
12-03-2010, 06:52 PM
Konerko has a degenerative hip disorder? What? :?:

Yes, which is why he was moved from 3b to 1st base. It was known that long ago and is not news. Doesn't seem to be degenerating all thought much but the other geezers in the old folks home will be moving better then Paulie when the time comes...maybe better now come to think of it.:redneck

beasly213
12-03-2010, 06:57 PM
Jon Heyman was just on MLB Hot Stove talking about Konerko and said that everybody believes that he wants to stay with the Sox and expects that he'll be re-signing in the neighborhood of 3yrs/$40 million.

Heard him and Kenny or at least his agent and Kenny will be meeting on Monday.

Daver
12-03-2010, 07:24 PM
Yes, which is why he was moved from 3b to 1st base. It was known that long ago and is not news. Doesn't seem to be degenerating all thought much but the other geezers in the old folks home will be moving better then Paulie when the time comes...maybe better now come to think of it.:redneck

Actually, it is why he stopped wearing the tools of ignorance and was tried at third, and then moved to first.

beasly213
12-03-2010, 08:13 PM
Actually, it is why he stopped wearing the tools of ignorance and was tried at third, and then moved to first.

What year was it that the Sox thought it was a good idea to have Paulie play third? Man that was bad.

Daver
12-03-2010, 08:32 PM
What year was it that the Sox thought it was a good idea to have Paulie play third? Man that was bad.

The Sox didn't, the Dodgers did.

slavko
12-03-2010, 08:34 PM
What year was it that the Sox thought it was a good idea to have Paulie play third? Man that was bad.

I vaguely remember him playing 3B here and having some good fielding instincts. He played it in LA. Catcher would be tough on a bad hip. He has to be satisfied with running bases like one.

Kidding aside, he found the right position. I'm going to be one of the surprised ones if he re-signs here. It tells me Viciedo doesn't have much of a future with the Sox.

danjames
12-03-2010, 08:52 PM
The Sox didn't, the Dodgers did.


Actually it looks like he played 3B for a few games in '99 and '00 though I don't remember that at all.


http://espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=3747&context=fieldin

SOXSINCE'70
12-03-2010, 09:05 PM
Actually it looks like he played 3B for a few games in '99 and '00 though I don't remember that at all.


http://espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=3747&context=fieldin

I don't remember Konerko playing third either, but I do remember his inside the park home run in Tampa during the 2000 season.He barely beat the throw to the plate.Damn hip!:D:

beasly213
12-03-2010, 09:07 PM
Actually it looks like he played 3B for a few games in '99 and '00 though I don't remember that at all.


http://espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=3747&context=fieldin

I do. They tried it in spring training and he actually played a few games during the season. What were they thinking?

doublem23
12-03-2010, 09:48 PM
I do. They tried it in spring training and he actually played a few games during the season. What were they thinking?

We got to get this kid in the lineup, but we have a Hall of Famer still at 1B.

TDog
12-03-2010, 09:52 PM
I do. They tried it in spring training and he actually played a few games during the season. What were they thinking?

They were thinking they had Frank Thomas at first base. They also had No. 1 draft pick Jeff Liefer, although he didn't play much in the regular season. Greg Norton also moved between first and third before he settled at third. The White Sox had some good young hitters in 2000 and Manuel tried to get as many as he could into the lineup. Carlos Lee was doing as much DHing as Frank Thomas early in the year.

Konerko appeared to be the regular third baseman in April 2000 when the White Sox were leading baseball in runs scored, but I don't know if he ever played third base after that.

WhiteSox5187
12-03-2010, 09:54 PM
Actually, it is why he stopped wearing the tools of ignorance and was tried at third, and then moved to first.

I thought the reason he moved from catcher was because Mike Soscia said that he would be better served playing elsewhere as the Dodgers had Mike Piazza behind the plate.

Also, wasn't Konerko the opening day third baseman in 1999 and was billed as Ventura's replacement?

Lip Man 1
12-03-2010, 10:03 PM
According to the White Sox media guide Norton was the opening day 3rd baseman in 1999. PK was the opening day DH.

Lip

slavko
12-03-2010, 10:11 PM
I don't remember Konerko playing third either, but I do remember his inside the park home run in Tampa during the 2000 season.He barely beat the throw to the plate.Damn hip!:D:

With the guys in the dugout doubled over laughing. I remember it.

russ99
12-03-2010, 10:38 PM
Jon Heyman was just on MLB Hot Stove talking about Konerko and said that everybody believes that he wants to stay with the Sox and expects that he'll be re-signing in the neighborhood of 3yrs/$40 million.

That seems a bit high to me. At most he'd get $13M his first year, but certainly not the second or third. Paul made $12M last year.

Kenny's negotiating from a position of strength here, I don't see him giving that away, no matter how much he wants Paul back.

I don't see them asking Dunn to defer salary in order to pay Paulie more than him in 2010.

Brian26
12-03-2010, 10:45 PM
I don't remember Konerko playing third either, but I do remember his inside the park home run in Tampa during the 2000 season.He barely beat the throw to the plate.Damn hip!:D:

Konerko was the starting 3B for Opening Day 2000.

The starting first baseman? Not Big Frank as you might think. I'm going by memory here, but I think it was Greg Norton.

DirtySox
12-03-2010, 10:47 PM
http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/190827556/jon_heyman_normal.jpg
SI_JonHeyman (http://twitter.com/#%21/SI_JonHeyman) Jon Heyman
competing execs believe konerko will surely stay with the #chisox (http://twitter.com/#%21/search?q=%23chisox). he loves jerry reinsdorf. best guess is $13 mil per yr
37 seconds ago (http://twitter.com/#%21/SI_JonHeyman/status/10917833387020289)

FielderJones
12-03-2010, 11:23 PM
http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/190827556/jon_heyman_normal.jpg
SI_JonHeyman (http://twitter.com/#%21/SI_JonHeyman) Jon Heyman
competing execs believe konerko will surely stay with the #chisox (http://twitter.com/#%21/search?q=%23chisox). he loves jerry reinsdorf. best guess is $13 mil per yr
37 seconds ago (http://twitter.com/#%21/SI_JonHeyman/status/10917833387020289)

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:1T8cKKPDQ-YoMM:http://subrevolt.com/phpnuke/images/submitted_images/picard.jpg&t=1
"Make it so."

soltrain21
12-03-2010, 11:32 PM
http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/190827556/jon_heyman_normal.jpg
SI_JonHeyman (http://twitter.com/#%21/SI_JonHeyman) Jon Heyman
competing execs believe konerko will surely stay with the #chisox (http://twitter.com/#%21/search?q=%23chisox). he loves jerry reinsdorf. best guess is $13 mil per yr
37 seconds ago (http://twitter.com/#%21/SI_JonHeyman/status/10917833387020289)

Awww...

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_4XEv8zxD4Yk/SkDL1BMVBgI/AAAAAAAAAOw/wylF4rOUlMY/s320/i_love_you_this_much.jpg

UofCSoxFan
12-04-2010, 12:16 AM
While I absolutely support his right to explore the free market, this always cracks me up when we're talking about pro athletes who've already made more money than they or their descendants could reasonably spend in several generations. Like when Sprewell turned down $13 million a year because "I've got a family to feed." :rolleyes:

I don't know...quotes like "I have a family to feed" are ridiculous but I don't think its unreasable at all for a person making 70 or 80 million over the course of a career to still think another 3 or 4 million annually makes a differrence.

That is still a lot of money. Some athletes may approach it as "I want to ensure my great grandchildren are taken care of" in which case every bit matters. You also don't know how Konerko spent his money or if he invested it poorly (a lot of people lost a lot of money over the past couple years through rationale conservative investments). Yeah he won't starve if he takes less money with the Sox, but I wouldn't dismiss it as trivial either.

I want Konerko back, but bottem line is he's been paid well by the organization in the past but he's busted his ass everyday to earn that pay. He owes the organization and the fans nothing.

That being said, I think he resigns with the Sox as in doing so he can cement his legacy as one of the best Sox ever (and most likely will get his number 14 retired). However, if he rather go out west or take more money elsewhere, well that is more than his right and it is more than reasonable.

UofCSoxFan
12-04-2010, 12:25 AM
If I were Paulie I would be insulted. If a .250 hitting DH that strikes out 200 times a year is worth $ 14 mil. a year what's Paulie worth ? $ 25 mil. per?

For a power hitter, batting average and k rate are pretty poor stats to evaluate production. I love Paulie and want him back, but Adam Dunn is pretty easily the better hitter of the two. He has a career .900 ops (66th best of all time) That is nuts. Konerko has only been above .900 3 times in his 14 year career.

gobears1987
12-04-2010, 05:35 AM
I vaguely remember him playing 3B here and having some good fielding instincts. He played it in LA. Catcher would be tough on a bad hip. He has to be satisfied with running bases like one.

Kidding aside, he found the right position. I'm going to be one of the surprised ones if he re-signs here. It tells me Viciedo doesn't have much of a future with the Sox.

Konerko's D at 1st is underrated IMO. He isn't a gold glove quality 1st baseman, but his ability to pick throws probably saves Alexei (and every other SS we had) about 10-15 errors a year. That's probably a conservative number now that I think of it. Viciedo at 1st would make me puke. Not just the fact he probably can't even field that position, but also the fact he can't take a walk to save his life and his possible (don't dwell on that number, I just needed to pull one for an example) .280 BA would be accompanied by a .285 OBP.

Lip Man 1
12-04-2010, 10:41 AM
Brian:

Again according to the White Sox media guide, on opening day 2000, PK is listed as the DH. Frank Thomas was at 1st and some guy named Wilson (Craig???) was the starting 3rd baseman.

From 2001 on, PK is listed as the opening day 1st baseman.

Lip

HaroMaster87
12-04-2010, 11:34 AM
Brian:

Again according to the White Sox media guide, on opening day 2000, PK is listed as the DH. Frank Thomas was at 1st and some guy named Wilson (Craig???) was the starting 3rd baseman.

From 2001 on, PK is listed as the opening day 1st baseman.

Lip


Yup, Craig Wilson...here is an "I'm happy for you" moment. I played little league with him and we went to the same HS. East Leyden in Franklin Park...he was unbelievable in little league. Throwing 80 mph and wicked breaking pitches...just about threw a no-hitter every time out. Homerun every time he hit.

I also think he came up in september the year before and had a crazy average and hit a bunch of homeruns IIRC.

Bob

Noneck
12-04-2010, 11:54 AM
Brian:

Again according to the White Sox media guide, on opening day 2000, PK is listed as the DH. Frank Thomas was at 1st and some guy named Wilson (Craig???) was the starting 3rd baseman.

From 2001 on, PK is listed as the opening day 1st baseman.

Lip
Lip,

Baseball reference box score confirms this.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/TEX/TEX200004030.shtml

According to baseball reference Paul started 6 games in 2000 at 3rd.

Rockabilly
12-04-2010, 11:58 AM
http://thecapitalsportsreport.com/2010/12/04/konerko-is-close-to-re-signing-with-the-white-sox-after-turning-down-an-offer-from-the-orioles/

soltrain21
12-04-2010, 12:00 PM
http://thecapitalsportsreport.com/2010/12/04/konerko-is-close-to-re-signing-with-the-white-sox-after-turning-down-an-offer-from-the-orioles/

Jeez. That writer gives zero credit to his source, Jon Heyman. He basically took Heyman's tweets and put it into article form.

What a hack.

spawn
12-04-2010, 12:38 PM
Jeez. That writer gives zero credit to his source, Jon Heyman. He basically took Heyman's tweets and put it into article form.

What a hack.
No kidding. That's just sad.

DumpJerry
12-04-2010, 12:41 PM
Jeez. That writer gives zero credit to his source, Jon Heyman. He basically took Heyman's tweets and put it into article form.

What a hack.
The irony is the pleading copyright notice on it.

SephClone89
12-04-2010, 02:46 PM
Yup, Craig Wilson...here is an "I'm happy for you" moment. I played little league with him and we went to the same HS. East Leyden in Franklin Park...he was unbelievable in little league. Throwing 80 mph and wicked breaking pitches...just about threw a no-hitter every time out. Homerun every time he hit.

I also think he came up in september the year before and had a crazy average and hit a bunch of homeruns IIRC.

Bob

Craig Wilson was my favourite random Sox player as a kid.

Also, a friend/mentor of mine went to East Leyden.

JermaineDye05
12-04-2010, 07:59 PM
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/12/rangers-interested-in-crawford.html

Let's hope they get Lee, therefore losing the money for Konerko.

JermaineDye05
12-05-2010, 12:57 PM
Konerko scheduled to meet with #chisox (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23chisox) chairman reinsdorf tomorrow. Once they hug, thatll be a deal. Very close. Should be $13 mil per. less than 20 seconds ago (http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyman/status/11494103040659456) via web
http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/190827556/jon_heyman_bigger.jpg (http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyman)
SI_JonHeyman (http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyman)

soltrain21
12-05-2010, 12:59 PM
Konerko scheduled to meet with #chisox (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23chisox) chairman reinsdorf tomorrow. Once they hug, thatll be a deal. Very close. Should be $13 mil per. less than 20 seconds ago (http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyman/status/11494103040659456) via web
http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/190827556/jon_heyman_bigger.jpg (http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyman)
SI_JonHeyman (http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyman)

Sox seem to be really going for it. This is awesome.

JermaineDye05
12-05-2010, 01:01 PM
Sox seem to be really going for it. This is awesome.

The only thing that I'm hesitant about is if Konerko really wants to come back. At the end of the year, it sounded like he didn't want to. Although that could be because he didn't like the way the team was shaping up for next year. Now, with Dunn on the team, perhaps he feels differently.

Brian26
12-05-2010, 01:03 PM
The only thing that I'm hesitant about is if Konerko really wants to come back. At the end of the year, it sounded like he didn't want to. Although that could be because he didn't like the way the team was shaping up for next year. Now, with Dunn on the team, perhaps he feels differently.

Or, perhaps he has a brain and a sense of business acumen, unlike, say, Adrian Beltre.