PDA

View Full Version : McCarthy outrighted off Rangers 40-Man


JermaineDye05
11-05-2010, 08:55 PM
Link (http://trsullivan.mlblogs.com/archives/2010/11/german_mathis_mccarthy_outrigh.html)

Kenny's deal looks better and better each year. It's unfortunate for Brandon because he really had a lot of promise. He certainly had the stuff and makeup to be a good starter. Unfortunately, his body just wouldn't cooperate.

tm1119
11-05-2010, 10:18 PM
He posted a 3.36 ERA and 4:1 K/BB ratio in 56 IP in AAA the only time he was healthy in 2010. Kinda surprised they didnt keep him just based on that. Really wouldnt be a bad pick up. I think hes almost destined for the bullpen at his point in his career, at least for a while until he can prove himself. I would welcome him back, but Im sure some bad team will pick him up and put him in the rotation on the off chance he can succeed based on his pedigree.

JermaineDye05
11-05-2010, 10:51 PM
He posted a 3.36 ERA and 4:1 K/BB ratio in 56 IP in AAA the only time he was healthy in 2010. Kinda surprised they didnt keep him just based on that. Really wouldnt be a bad pick up. I think hes almost destined for the bullpen at his point in his career, at least for a while until he can prove himself. I would welcome him back, but Im sure some bad team will pick him up and put him in the rotation on the off chance he can succeed based on his pedigree.

I could see him on the Royals.

LoveYourSuit
11-05-2010, 11:06 PM
i could see him on the royals.


potw

cards press box
11-06-2010, 11:02 AM
He posted a 3.36 ERA and 4:1 K/BB ratio in 56 IP in AAA the only time he was healthy in 2010. Kinda surprised they didnt keep him just based on that. Really wouldnt be a bad pick up. I think hes almost destined for the bullpen at his point in his career, at least for a while until he can prove himself. I would welcome him back, but Im sure some bad team will pick him up and put him in the rotation on the off chance he can succeed based on his pedigree.

The Sox seem to do as a good of job of keeping players healthy as any other team. I wouldn't mind seeing the Sox bring Brandon back and the Sox might be a good fit for him.

slavko
11-06-2010, 11:25 AM
I could see him on the Royals.


Sometimes the train goes in the other direction on that track.

johnnyg83
11-06-2010, 04:16 PM
Royals farm system is loaded. And no, I'm not currently.

DirtySox
11-06-2010, 04:43 PM
Royals farm system is loaded. And no, I'm not currently.

Yes. It is stacked. I'm very jealous. Looking forward to seeing Hosmer, Montgomery, and Giavotella tonight.

Frater Perdurabo
11-06-2010, 09:37 PM
I wouldn't mind seeing the Sox bring Brandon back and the Sox might be a good fit for him.

Surprised no one has yet posted, "Coop'll fix him!" :D:

Zisk77
11-06-2010, 09:43 PM
Surprised no one has yet posted, "Coop'll fix him!" :D:


You just did. :scratch:

DumpJerry
11-06-2010, 11:54 PM
Royals farm system is loaded. And no, I'm not currently.
:anderson:
We're good. No need for any more bodies.

khan
11-08-2010, 12:19 PM
Sign him up.


Its not like the SOX just have an embarrassment of riches in terms of able arms in the organization.


He'd come cheaply, in any case.

Chez
11-08-2010, 12:49 PM
How many of us were outraged when KW traded McCarthy to Texas for Danks and Masset? I know I was. Boy, was I wrong about that trade!

RealFan
11-08-2010, 01:50 PM
Though surprised, I definitely wasn't outraged or even upset. I figured that KW and team know a lot more about what they are doing than I do. Even though I was thrilled with that August 2005 win by McCarthy over the Red Sox on the road, I knew then that one performance does not a career make (it took me 30 years to figure this out).

The Rangers probably saw that performance and others like it and made the trade. At the time I was hoping it would be a win win as I knew nothing about what we were getting in return. Obviously this is one that ended up very one sided.

asindc
11-08-2010, 01:53 PM
Though surprised, I definitely wasn't outraged or even upset. I figured that KW and team know a lot more about what they are doing than I do. Even though I was thrilled with that August 2005 win by McCarthy over the Red Sox on the road, I knew then that one performance does not a career make (it took me 30 years to figure this out).

The Rangers probably saw that performance and others like it and made the trade. At the time I was hoping it would be a win win as I knew nothing about what we were getting in return. Obviously this is one that ended up very one sided.

Why would you think that?

TDog
11-08-2010, 02:32 PM
I could see him on the Royals.

It's more likely he will sign with the Pirates or Nationals, have some success in the bullpen and end up being traded to the Twins at the deadline.

Foulke You
11-08-2010, 04:45 PM
It's more likely he will sign with the Pirates or Nationals, have some success in the bullpen and end up being traded to the Twins at the deadline.
Where he'll have 7 holds against us in the second half of the season with an E.R.A. of 1.09 :tongue:

MtGrnwdSoxFan
11-08-2010, 04:58 PM
Where he'll have 7 holds against us in the second half of the season with an E.R.A. of 1.09 :tongue:

...and get shelled against everyone else.

TDog
11-08-2010, 05:05 PM
Where he'll have 7 holds against us in the second half of the season with an E.R.A. of 1.09 :tongue:

It might feel that way sometimes, but the White Sox hit .344 off Jon Rauch this year and also hit over .300 against Matt Capps, who the Twins acquired from the Nationals after the Pirates let him go (and whose story more closely fits my suggested future for McCarthy).

tacosalbarojas
11-10-2010, 06:10 PM
How many of us were outraged when KW traded McCarthy to Texas for Danks and Masset? I know I was. Boy, was I wrong about that trade!
Phil Rogers still is outraged!

Frontman
11-10-2010, 06:18 PM
Unless someone gives him a chance as a starter; he's done. His defense of how he struggled here in 2006 was coming out of the pen; and his defenders would cite how its a different mentality coming into a game with runners already on.

Wish the kid well; but he turned out to be a lot more hype than actual skill.

doublem23
11-10-2010, 06:26 PM
Sign him up.


Its not like the SOX just have an embarrassment of riches in terms of able arms in the organization.


He'd come cheaply, in any case.

Yeah, I agree, he had success and stayed healthy while here, maybe the Sox just know something about McCarthy that the Rangers don't.

Really, what is there to lose?

khan
11-11-2010, 11:14 AM
Yeah, I agree, he had success and stayed healthy while here, maybe the Sox just know something about McCarthy that the Rangers don't.

Really, what is there to lose?

I'm trying to list chapter and verse of the SOX's depth @ SP in the farm system beyond Sale, and I'm coming up a little short right now.

He can't be much worse than Harrell or Torres were, can he? And he isn't exactly a high-priced target, either...

russ99
11-11-2010, 11:20 AM
I'm trying to list chapter and verse of the SOX's depth @ SP in the farm system beyond Sale, and I'm coming up a little short right now.

He can't be much worse than Harrell or Torres were, can he? And he isn't exactly a high-priced target, either...

What about Leesman and Carter? I think McCarthy's done as a starter, but I wouldn't mind him for the Charlotte pen.

I'd hope the Sox are looking to add a few starters in the Rule V minor league draft this year, since we have some spots open on the 40 man. A few 6 year FAs who have some history of success wouldn't hurt either.

khan
11-11-2010, 11:27 AM
What about Leesman and Carter?

I'd hope the Sox are looking to add a few starters in the Rule V minor league draft this year, since we have some spots open on the 40 man.

I can agree to all of this. [I was disappointed that the SOX didn't make a play for Cesar Carrillo from Mt. Carmel as minor league depth, for example.]

I find it odd that this team deemed it the right thing to denude the organization of each and every SP prospect available, while spending $50M on what has been a middle-of-the-road starting rotation.

voodoochile
11-11-2010, 11:46 AM
I can agree to all of this. [I was disappointed that the SOX didn't make a play for Cesar Carrillo from Mt. Carmel as minor league depth, for example.]

I find it odd that this team deemed it the right thing to denude the organization of each and every SP prospect available, while spending $50M on what has been a middle-of-the-road starting rotation.

Well to some extent that's hindsight and it's also only been one year. Certainly everyone was licking their chops at the thought of the starting rotation last year and should be again for this coming year even more so (provided Peavy comes back and can pitch).

On the surface it looks like the Sox don't need any pitching this coming year and possibly not until the end of 2012 and then even for 2013 they have at least 3 starters signed or under team control.

A lot can happen to a minor league system in 3 years as the draft and rapid rise of Sale attests.

Chez
11-11-2010, 11:47 AM
Didn't Ozzie and Kenny have some issues with McCarthy's "commitment to baseball" in 2006? I believe he used to be a late night running mate of Brian Anderson's.

DirtySox
11-11-2010, 11:49 AM
I'm trying to list chapter and verse of the SOX's depth @ SP in the farm system beyond Sale, and I'm coming up a little short right now.

He can't be much worse than Harrell or Torres were, can he? And he isn't exactly a high-priced target, either...

Harrell is pretty much it. Torres isn't with the Sox anymore, and will be pitching in Japan.

Russ noted Carter and Lessman, but Carter is a relief pitcher and Leesman is probably bullpen fodder as well. 5th starter is probably his ceiling. There is really noone else close.

cws05champ
11-11-2010, 12:14 PM
Harrell is pretty much it. Torres isn't with the Sox anymore, and will be pitching in Japan.

Russ noted Carter and Lessman, but Carter is a relief pitcher and Leesman is probably bullpen fodder as well. 5th starter is probably his ceiling. There is really noone else close.
If there's one thing we do have depth in is relief pitching prospects or guys that profile best as relievers. Anthony Carter, Santos Rodriguez, Remenowsky, Bellamy, Nate Jones, Santeliz and Deunte Heath.

We'll have to see how Addison Reed and Jacob Petrika progress this year as well. We really need to get back into the Int'l market , draft and develop better.

Hindsight is always 20/20 but having Hudson, Richard, Sale would look really good for the future right now.

DirtySox
11-11-2010, 12:28 PM
If there's one thing we do have depth in is relief pitching prospects or guys that profile best as relievers. Anthony Carter, Santos Rodriguez, Remenowsky, Bellamy, Nate Jones, Santeliz and Deunte Heath.

We'll have to see how Addison Reed and Jacob Petrika progress this year as well. We really need to get back into the Int'l market , draft and develop better.

Hindsight is always 20/20 but having Hudson, Richard, Sale would look really good for the future right now.

No doubt on all of this. I'm not all that high on Carter, Jones, or Heath though. Santeliz is currently a free agent as well. Don't forget Infante either. I'd imagine he will be given much consideration for a bullpen spot next season.

As you stated, the international scouting and signing absolutely needs to pick up. They have no presence there at the moment (for varying reasons). The last Latin signing was Miguel Gonzalez in 2008. I was pleased to read in the Wilder piece that Laumann and Krause are/were on a scouting trip there.

cws05champ
11-11-2010, 12:32 PM
No doubt on all of this. I'm not all that high on Carter, Jones, or Heath though. Santeliz is currently a free agent as well. Don't forget Infante either. I'd imagine he will be given much consideration for a bullpen spot next season.

As you stated, the international scouting and signing absolutely needs to pick up. They have no presence there at the moment (for varying reasons). The last Latin signing was Miguel Gonzalez in 2008. I was pleased to read in the Wilder piece that Laumann and Krause are/were on a scouting trip there.
I remembered Infante who will probably be on the 2011 roster, but just forgot to put him down for some reason. I liked what I saw of him last year....

DirtySox
11-11-2010, 12:38 PM
I remembered Infante who will probably be on the 2011 roster, but just forgot to put him down for some reason. I liked what I saw of him last year....

As did I. Mid to upper 90's fastball and a good but inconsistent curveball. If the control evens out he could be a nice addition to the pen. We need to see more relief prospects panning out. Santos was a nice start.

khan
11-11-2010, 01:27 PM
Well to some extent that's hindsight and it's also only been one year. Certainly everyone was licking their chops at the thought of the starting rotation last year and should be again for this coming year even more so (provided Peavy comes back and can pitch).
With every passing year, I've come to believe what the team says less and less. With weak and stupid media coverage in this town, I find that I have to filter what I read more and more.

Having said that, I suppose you're correct in that we should look hopefully to the prospect of the 2011 pitching staff.


On the surface it looks like the Sox don't need any pitching this coming year and possibly not until the end of 2012 and then even for 2013 they have at least 3 starters signed or under team control.

I disagree. With:

1. Buehrle becoming less effective as he ages,
2. Peavy just a sneeze away from his NEXT injury,
3. Jackson [Should he SHOCK us and pitch adequately in 2011] will be GONE due to his capricious and avaricious agent,
4. Floyd becoming less consistent since getting paid, and
5. Danks probably out the door, since KW stupidly added Jackson's obese salary to the payroll,

I think the SOX need to re-load NOW, rather than wait for this "good-on-paper" pitching staff to be broken up in 2012 or 2013.

A lot can happen to a minor league system in 3 years as the draft and rapid rise of Sale attests.
Agreed, to some degree. And to your point, KW can hit the "gimmes" in the draft as in Sale and Beckham. But he's been pretty consistent in wetting the bed beyond that, unfortunately.

I suppose I'd be more comfortable having MORE than just Sale in reserve, as a hedge against another Peavy injury, or ineffectiveness by another pitcher.

khan
11-11-2010, 01:32 PM
Harrell is pretty much it. Torres isn't with the Sox anymore, and will be pitching in Japan.

Russ noted Carter and Lessman, but Carter is a relief pitcher and Leesman is probably bullpen fodder as well. 5th starter is probably his ceiling. There is really noone else close.
Oh, I'm aware of all of this.

I guess I'm saying that if KW added McCarthy, exactly WHOSE progress would he block? I'd see a McCarthy signing as a "can't hurt/could help as depth" type of acquisition, given the ****tiness of the SP depth in the system.

Nellie_Fox
11-11-2010, 03:30 PM
3. Jackson [Should he SHOCK us and pitch adequately in 2011] will be GONE due to his capricious and avaricious agent,
4. Floyd becoming less consistent since getting paid, and
5. Danks probably out the door, since KW stupidly added Jackson's obese salary to the payroll,So, tell us khan, what do you think of the Jackson acquisition? I don't think you've ever made your feelings clear on it.

Milw
11-12-2010, 01:01 PM
Yes. It is stacked. I'm very jealous. Looking forward to seeing Hosmer, Montgomery, and Giavotella tonight.
I'd love to have a stacked farm system. I'd rather have a competitive major league club, however. Pretty sure Royals fans would trade places with us in a heartbeat.

SI1020
11-12-2010, 01:16 PM
I'd love to have a stacked farm system. I'd rather have a competitive major league club, however. Pretty sure Royals fans would trade places with us in a heartbeat. Stacked farm systems can lead to competitive teams. Sooner or later the Sox lack of success in drafting and developing players is going to bite them. Then there will be a "rebuilding" phase whether we want to or not.

DirtySox
11-12-2010, 01:33 PM
I'd love to have a stacked farm system. I'd rather have a competitive major league club, however. Pretty sure Royals fans would trade places with us in a heartbeat.

I don't understand why this notion is constantly expressed. Why must a team either have a good major league club OR a good farm system? Both can be achieved. Certainly the Royals system has benefited from early 1st round picks (Hosmer, Moustakous) but the system is buoyed by just as many later talents that they have discovered and developed.

I don't think the Sox should have an elite farm system similar to the Royals current situation, but it's not a stretch to desire a competitive major league club with an at least average minor league system.

TDog
11-12-2010, 03:52 PM
...

I disagree. With:

1. Buehrle becoming less effective as he ages,
2. Peavy just a sneeze away from his NEXT injury,
3. Jackson [Should he SHOCK us and pitch adequately in 2011] will be GONE due to his capricious and avaricious agent,
4. Floyd becoming less consistent since getting paid, and
5. Danks probably out the door, since KW stupidly added Jackson's obese salary to the payroll, ....

This section of the post caught my eye first, and I thought it was a sensible post, until I saw the punctuation in the first line.

It seems your default is assuming the White Sox management is stupid and your opinions are corollaries of that theorem.

khan
11-12-2010, 04:00 PM
This section of the post caught my eye first, and I thought it was a sensible post, until I saw the punctuation in the first line.
Actually, I didn't like the punctuation when I posted it either. But, it was intended to catch one's eye moreso than to be grammatically accurate.

It seems your default is assuming the White Sox management is stupid and your opinions are corollaries of that theorem.

No, my default is that KW has made some good decisions, and some bad decisions as well. [Of course, since I'm not a pollyanna who worships at the altar of KW, you assume that I see KW as stupid.]


I merely believe that KW has made some stupid decisions of late. "Going for it" by picking up Jackson and Manny in 2010 makes for good quotes in the newspapers, and it makes fanboys out of the lesser-informed.

But if adding those salaries to a team that was ill-equipped to win the WS in 2010 costs re-signing Danks or costs the ability to improve this team in other ways in future seasons, I view that as stupid.

cards press box
11-12-2010, 04:43 PM
Jackson [Should he SHOCK us and pitch adequately in 2011]

Why would it shock anyone if Edwin Jackson pitches well in 2011? Look at his stats (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/jacksed01.shtml) after he came to the Sox last year and worked with Don Cooper on his mechanics: Jackson made 11 starts and went 4-2 with an ERA of 3.24. His WHIP was 1.21. His K/BB ratio was 4.28/1. He averaged 9.2 K's per 9 innings. He pitched quite well for the Sox in 2010.

Look, I have no idea whether he stays with the Sox long term. He has a contract that most analysts would characterize as either market level or below market level. The Sox could: (i) deal him before the 2011 season, (ii) trade him before July 31, (iii) keep him all season, (iv) sign him to an extension beyond 2011 or (v) offer him arbitration and take the draft picks when he leaves to sign a multi-year deal. In any of those scenarios, the Sox get some value. We'll just have to wait and see what that value is.

fox23
11-12-2010, 05:02 PM
Why would it shock anyone if Edwin Jackson pitches well in 2011? Look at his stats (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/jacksed01.shtml) after he came to the Sox last year and worked with Don Cooper on his mechanics: Jackson made 11 starts and went 4-2 with an ERA of 3.24. His WHIP was 1.21. His K/BB ratio was 4.28/1. He averaged 9.2 K's per 9 innings. He pitched quite well for the Sox in 2010.

Look, I have no idea whether he stays with the Sox long term. He has a contract that most analysts would characterize as either market level or below market level. The Sox could: (i) deal him before the 2011 season, (ii) trade him before July 31, (iii) keep him all season, (iv) sign him to an extension beyond 2011 or (v) offer him arbitration and take the draft picks when he leaves to sign a multi-year deal. In any of those scenarios, the Sox get some value. We'll just have to wait and see what that value is.

Don't even bother trying to debate or use things like logic and reason, its just not worth it.

khan
11-12-2010, 05:18 PM
Why would it shock anyone if Edwin Jackson pitches well in 2011?
I think it would be shocking because Jackson's career stats read like a conga line of good-bad, good-bad, good-bad.

His one "good year" was 2009, where he was lights out for half a season [1.060 WHIP], and then [in part] cost the tiggers the ALC as he crapped his pants in the 2nd half [1.527 WHIP].

And even for as "good" as Jackson was with the SOX, he had a GREAT august with a 1.036 WHIP, followed by an ordinary sept/Oct with a 1.383 WHIP. If you look inside the numbers, it isn't a history of "slumps" so much as it is a history of pants-crapping.

Look at his numbers for yourself. Look at the splits. Look at the inconsistency. I think they speak for themselves, personally. Remember, there have been fans in 4 other MLB towns that have believed as you do in the past about Jackson. All have come away disappointed in his inconsistency.


Look at his stats (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/jacksed01.shtml) after he came to the Sox last year and worked with Don Cooper on his mechanics: Jackson made 11 starts and went 4-2 with an ERA of 3.24. His WHIP was 1.21. His K/BB ratio was 4.28/1. He averaged 9.2 K's per 9 innings. He pitched quite well for the Sox in 2010.
Again, he was GREAT for August [1.036 WHIP], and ordinary in Sept/Oct [1.386 WHIP]. I'd buy into the "coop fixed him" line, but Coop hasn't fixed EVERY pitcher he's tried to fix, and no pitching coach could.

Again, Jackson has been a 4 team reject. This isn't the FIRST time someone's tried to "fix" Jackson.

Look, I have no idea whether he stays with the Sox long term. He has a contract that most analysts would characterize as either market level or below market level.
IMO, this is entirely immaterial to the specific situation that the SOX are in right now. You have to consider the extant ~$40M in committed salaries to 3 other SPs. You also have to consider that the SOX probably aren't going to spend to fix all the other holes in the roster [C, 1B, RF, perhaps 3B, Closer, RH setup, etc....] WITH Jackson's $8.5M in the roster.

Because of a relative lack of resources, Jackson is a luxury that THIS team probably can't afford. For other teams, Jackson WOULD be affordable, IMO.


The Sox could: (i) deal him before the 2011 season, (ii) trade him before July 31, (iii) keep him all season, (iv) sign him to an extension beyond 2011 or (v) offer him arbitration and take the draft picks when he leaves to sign a multi-year deal. In any of those scenarios, the Sox get some value. We'll just have to wait and see what that value is.
We'd also likely have to watch the team suck eggs in 2011, if they keep the $8.5M on the roster, IMO. [Due to possibly not having suitable solutions at C, 1B, perhaps 3rd, DH, RF, closer, and elsewhere...]

Also, do you REALLY want to have a potential arb case with Boras on the other side of the table? Personally, I don't. I think it would be better to trade him NOW, so that there is some salary relief to enable KW to fix more of the holes in the roster.

cards press box
11-14-2010, 01:49 PM
I'd buy into the "coop fixed him" line, but Coop hasn't fixed EVERY pitcher he's tried to fix, and no pitching coach could.

Again, Jackson has been a 4 team reject. This isn't the FIRST time someone's tried to "fix" Jackson.


But Don Cooper never worked with Edwin Jackson before. It appears to me that Coop simplified his delivery and emphasized his strenghts as a power pitcher. There is no reason to think that Jackson's improvement resulting from Coop's modifications won't continue in the 2011 season.

One thing that I like about Jackson is that he does add a top flight power arm to the Sox rotation. Putting Jackson aside, the Sox' best strikeout pitcher is Jake Peavy. I'm sure we all hope that Peavy comes back at 100% but I guess that we'll have to wait and see about that. Jackson gives the Sox a legitimate strikeout pitcher in the rotation and that's a good thing.


Also, do you REALLY want to have a potential arb case with Boras on the other side of the table?

That is just not going to happen. If the Sox do not give Jackson a multi-year extension after 2011, then some other team will sign him to contract of 2+ years. Durable, hard throwers in the prime of their career just don't grow on trees. Jackson, no doubt, wants a multi-year contract and I cannot imagine that he won't get one.

If Jackson is on the Sox roster and unsigned at the end of 2011, I cannot imagine that the Sox would not offer him arbitration. It would be a poor business decision to not do so.