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View Full Version : Sox to begin negotiating with AJ soon?


chisoxfanatic
11-04-2010, 05:28 PM
I just saw this posted on Facebook: http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20101104&content_id=15999676&vkey=news_cws&c_id=cws&partnerId=rss_cws

This sounds like positive news to me. Both AJ and Paulie are guys I need to have re-signed if this offseason were to be positive in my personal eyes. I know his hitting declined this season, but he still brought great intangibles and really knows how to handle our pitching staff.

I have every ounce of confidence in KW to get something done.

DirtySox
11-04-2010, 06:22 PM
I think the Sox not negotiating during the exclusive window is rather telling.

DickAllen72
11-04-2010, 06:39 PM
If the Sox wind up with Tyler Flowers on the 25 man roster they will have made a huge mistake.

I hope they re-sign AJ. But if they don't, they better replace him with someone better. I doubt they can do better than AJ for any less than what Pierzynski would cost them.

palehozenychicty
11-05-2010, 03:21 AM
I hope they resign him too, but not for more than two years. Catchers don't age well. In fact, Posada lasting as long as he has with all of those postseason games is amazing.

DumpJerry
11-05-2010, 08:42 AM
I hope they resign him too, but not for more than two years. Catchers don't age well. In fact, Posada lasting as long as he has with all of those postseason games is amazing.
Posada spends a lot of time on the DL and being the DH.

Joe Mauer's days as the Backstop are numbered to ensure the Twins get their money's worth. He'll be the Full-time DH within four years.

tm1119
11-05-2010, 09:36 AM
If the Sox wind up with Tyler Flowers on the 25 man roster they will have made a huge mistake.

I hope they re-sign AJ. But if they don't, they better replace him with someone better. I doubt they can do better than AJ for any less than what Pierzynski would cost them.

AJ made 6.25M last year, how much of a paycut do you really think he's gonna take? I agree that there isn't much else out there, but if AJ is still asking anywhere near that 6M mark last year I can't imagine how anyone could justify
overpaying him like that with the holes we have on this team.

Sam Spade
11-05-2010, 11:09 AM
Posada spends a lot of time on the DL and being the DH.

Joe Mauer's days as the Backstop are numbered to ensure the Twins get their money's worth. He'll be the Full-time DH within four years.
I don't think they get their money's worth unless he is behind the plate.

WhiteSoxFTW
11-05-2010, 11:14 AM
I do NOT want AJ back. He was downright awful at the plate, and his "intangibles" are overstated. I've heard Steve Stone say that Castro is a much better "game caller" than AJ.

But, here's the catch...if we don't get AJ, I don't think there are many options out there. Unless they make a trade that includes a starting C, they are going to have to sign AJ to a 1 year deal at probably more than he is worth.

tm1119
11-05-2010, 12:18 PM
Would just like to go over the FA catchers available besides AJ to prove a point

Barajas(type B)- made 500k lasy year- .731 OPS
John Buck(type B)- made 2M last year- .802 OPS
Torrealba- made 75k last year- .721 OPS

AJ- made 6.75M last year- .688 OPS

The 3 that I mentioned are vet catchers that have plenty of "intangibles" to last this long as MLB catchers. Obviously someone has to give with AJ's salary this year. Would any other team in the MLB give him more than say 2M this year? Honestly can't see it happening. I can see us passing on AJ for a while and then bringing him back for for cheap late.

DirtySox
11-05-2010, 12:28 PM
Would just like to go over the FA catchers available besides AJ to prove a point

Barajas(type B)- made 500k lasy year- .731 OPS
John Buck(type B)- made 2M last year- .802 OPS
Torrealba- made 75k last year- .721 OPS

AJ- made 6.75M last year- .688 OPS

The 3 that I mentioned are vet catchers that have plenty of "intangibles" to last this long as MLB catchers. Obviously someone has to give with AJ's salary this year. Would any other team in the MLB give him more than say 2M this year? Honestly can't see it happening. I can see us passing on AJ for a while and then bringing him back for for cheap late.

Olivo is almost a lock to be a free agent as well. Hard to see him accepting arbitration when Arencibia and Molina are already there. He's a Type B. (Not that it matters. Signing a "B" doesn't lose the Sox a pick)

Chez
11-05-2010, 12:47 PM
This is A.J.'s last chance at a big contract. I think A.J. wants (and will get) a multi-year deal. I don't think the Sox are willing to go more than two years with him. If A.J. gets a 3-4 year offer from another club, he'll take it -- and he should.

dickallen15
11-05-2010, 12:55 PM
Would just like to go over the FA catchers available besides AJ to prove a point

Barajas(type B)- made 500k lasy year- .731 OPS
John Buck(type B)- made 2M last year- .802 OPS
Torrealba- made 75k last year- .721 OPS

AJ- made 6.75M last year- .688 OPS

The 3 that I mentioned are vet catchers that have plenty of "intangibles" to last this long as MLB catchers. Obviously someone has to give with AJ's salary this year. Would any other team in the MLB give him more than say 2M this year? Honestly can't see it happening. I can see us passing on AJ for a while and then bringing him back for for cheap late.

If you just go by 2010 stats, those 3 are all viable options, but they all had better years than normal and will be getting raises. AJP still has better career numbers than all 3 and has been extremely durable. He also was pretty good after a horrid 1st couple months of the season, so I don't think age has quite caught up with him. If you can get him cheaper, by all means, but if he'll sign for what he was making for a year or 2, why not? He's definitely the best option.

WhiteSoxFTW
11-05-2010, 01:01 PM
Would just like to go over the FA catchers available besides AJ to prove a point

Barajas(type B)- made 500k lasy year- .731 OPS
John Buck(type B)- made 2M last year- .802 OPS
Torrealba- made 75k last year- .721 OPS

AJ- made 6.75M last year- .688 OPS

The 3 that I mentioned are vet catchers that have plenty of "intangibles" to last this long as MLB catchers. Obviously someone has to give with AJ's salary this year. Would any other team in the MLB give him more than say 2M this year? Honestly can't see it happening. I can see us passing on AJ for a while and then bringing him back for for cheap late.

I was just researching the same thing. Here is the full list of 2011 free agents: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/09/2011-mlb-free-agents.html.

I was thinking about John Buck as an alternative.


Year Age Tm G PA AB R H 2B HR RBI BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS OPS+
2010 29 TOR 118 437 409 53 115 25 20 66 16 111 .281 .314 .489 .802 115

Provided by Baseball-Reference.com (http://www.baseball-reference.com/about/sharing.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool): View Original Table (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/buckjo01.shtml?sr&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool#batting_standard)
Generated 11/5/2010.

Madvora
11-05-2010, 01:03 PM
If AJ leaves, Comiskey will be the only place in the MLB that doesn't boo him.

WhiteSoxFTW
11-05-2010, 01:05 PM
If AJ leaves, Comiskey will be the only place in the MLB that doesn't boo him.

Um, isn't it that only place that doesn't boo him now? Hell, I boo'd him quietly at times this year. He was downright terrible most the season.

tm1119
11-05-2010, 01:13 PM
AJ has had 2 good years('06 and '09) in the past 7 that would warrant him making anything close to 6M a year. The other 5 years since '04 he's been no better than Barajas, Olivo, Buck, Torrealba, or most platoon level catchers in the mlb really. Other than that his career #'s are completely skewed by what he was doing in the prime of his career. He's clearly not that same player. You're really willing to pay 6M a year for a guy who you can almost pencil in for .270/.310/.420 with 10 hrs? I could see if we were a winning team and he's played a big part of that, but we're talking about a team that hasn't won a playoff series in 5 years. He's clearly not an important piece to any working puzzle here in Chicago anymore. Thanks for '05 AJ, but unless you're willing to take a pay cut of close to a 3rd of you're salary than I'm sayin peace.

Of course this is my opinion and I think he actually will get resigned for way more money than any other team would be willing to pay him.

dickallen15
11-05-2010, 01:39 PM
By not trying to lock AJ up prior to his becoming a FA, its pretty apparent the Sox are looking for a bargain behind the plate in 2011. They probably figure they could give AJ what he's been making if all the other cheap options come up empty.

DirtySox
11-05-2010, 01:45 PM
By not trying to lock AJ up prior to his becoming a FA, its pretty apparent the Sox are looking for a bargain behind the plate in 2011.

That's my perception as well. I figured he would be the priority during the window and the most likely to return.

dickallen15
11-05-2010, 01:55 PM
That's my perception as well. I figured he would be the priority during the window and the most likely to return.
The bargain very well could be AJ if no team wants to pay him. His type A status may scare away the rest of the teams pursuing him, although if the Sox aren't even negotiating with him, I would think the chances they offer him arb are about zero.

chisoxfanatic
11-05-2010, 02:32 PM
The bargain very well could be AJ if no team wants to pay him. His type A status may scare away the rest of the teams pursuing him, although if the Sox aren't even negotiating with him, I would think the chances they offer him arb are about zero.
I've heard the term "type A status" before...What does this mean? Is it like a restricted free agent in that the team must get compensation if another team signs him?

DirtySox
11-05-2010, 02:36 PM
I've heard the term "type A status" before...What does this mean? Is it like a restricted free agent in that the team must get compensation if another team signs him?

The dates are wrong since its from 2009, but everything else is correct.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/12/free-agent-arbitration-primer.html

AJ might not even be offered arbitration by the Sox, therefore we won't know about the draft pick compensation aspect until this year's deadline of November 23rd.

Edit: Also the top 18 picks are protected this year because 3 teams didn't sign their 1st round picks from 2010.

southside rocks
11-05-2010, 05:03 PM
I think the Sox not negotiating during the exclusive window is rather telling.

Why? If AJ wants to see what his value is on the open market, he pretty much has to let that exclusive time expire, and see what offers he gets from other teams. He's not a Konerko or a Buehrle, whose value is unquestioned -- he's a very good catcher who's getting up there in years now, and the market has been quite unusual for older players in recent years. If he doesn't want to undersell himself, or price himself out (as JD did last year), he needs to get the bids so he can set his ask.

I hope he re-signs with the Sox, but I don't think that the Sox don't want him just because they haven't signed him today.

wassagstdu
11-05-2010, 05:38 PM
Catcher and shortstop are two positions that the stats do not begin to tell the story on. The Sox should bring AJ back, no question in my mind. But that means making a fair and reasonable offer, not a blank check. I am puzzled by the fact that the Sox made no offer during the exclusive period, but then they may know that AJ wants to see if he can get 4 y first.

TaylorStSox
11-05-2010, 05:51 PM
Catcher and shortstop are two positions that the stats do not begin to tell the story on. The Sox should bring AJ back, no question in my mind. But that means making a fair and reasonable offer, not a blank check. I am puzzled by the fact that the Sox made no offer during the exclusive period, but then they may know that AJ wants to see if he can get 4 y first.

Four years? I have a better chance at getting a spring invite. I really think people are letting their love for AJ blind the fact that he isnt good anymore. What are the intangibles? Swinging at every first pitch in critical situations. Calming the pen down during pressure situations? Calling a great game while our very talented starting staff underachieves? I really dont get it. Can somebody please point out these intangibles?

Daver
11-05-2010, 06:47 PM
Can somebody please point out these intangibles?

He knows the game better than both the current manager and bench coach?

TaylorStSox
11-05-2010, 07:23 PM
He knows the game better than both the current manager and bench coach?

Apparently so does half the internet. That doesnt mean i'm going to pay them $6 million a year to "call a good game" and hit like ****.

Daver
11-05-2010, 07:31 PM
Apparently so does half the internet. That doesnt mean i'm going to pay them $6 million a year to "call a good game" and hit like ****.


The next game AJ calls will be his first.

And I don't think the Sox expect YOU to pay him, but if you are offering I'm sure they will take you up on it.

chisoxfanatic
11-05-2010, 08:29 PM
What makes any of you think AJ would command a $6 million contract? I'm inclined to believe he'd take a nice discount to stay here...Not in a way where he would make under 7 figures, but still I don't see him as being super greedy.

DirtySox
11-05-2010, 08:47 PM
What makes any of you think AJ would command a $6 million contract? I'm inclined to believe he'd take a nice discount to stay here...Not in a way where he would make under 7 figures, but still I don't see him as being super greedy.

He's already stated he won't be giving a hometown discount.

asindc
11-05-2010, 10:44 PM
Catcher and shortstop are two positions that the stats do not begin to tell the story on. The Sox should bring AJ back, no question in my mind. But that means making a fair and reasonable offer, not a blank check. I am puzzled by the fact that the Sox made no offer during the exclusive period, but then they may know that AJ wants to see if he can get 4 y first.

AJ is on crack if he thinks anyone is going to give him a four year deal.

russ99
11-06-2010, 09:39 AM
The dates are wrong since its from 2009, but everything else is correct.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/12/free-agent-arbitration-primer.html

AJ might not even be offered arbitration by the Sox, therefore we won't know about the draft pick compensation aspect until this year's deadline of November 23rd.

Edit: Also the top 18 picks are protected this year because 3 teams didn't sign their 1st round picks from 2010.

It's a bit strange that the deadline for offering arbitration is so much later than the free agency opening date this year.

A bunch of guys who could be offered arbitration by their current teams have a good chance of signing with other teams well before that date.

DirtySox
11-06-2010, 12:42 PM
It's a bit strange that the deadline for offering arbitration is so much later than the free agency opening date this year.

A bunch of guys who could be offered arbitration by their current teams have a good chance of signing with other teams well before that date.

If a player signs before the arbitration deadline that player's previous team will automatically receive compensation. (As long as they were an A or B) I don't expect a player like AJ to sign before the 23rd.

southside rocks
11-06-2010, 01:40 PM
Apparently so does half the internet. That doesnt mean i'm going to pay them $6 million a year to "call a good game" and hit like ****.

You do know that AJ Pierzynski has a career .284 batting average, don't you? :rolleyes:

soltrain21
11-06-2010, 01:45 PM
You do know that AJ Pierzynski has a career .284 batting average, don't you? :rolleyes:


You do know people, especially catchers, get old and eventually don't deserve money they previously made, don't you? :rolleyes:

TaylorStSox
11-06-2010, 01:47 PM
You do know that AJ Pierzynski has a career .284 batting average, don't you? :rolleyes:

He's also a 34 year old who put up a .688 ops last year.

Daver
11-06-2010, 03:06 PM
He's also a 34 year old who put up a .688 ops last year.

There is a very good chance that the starting third baseman is going to be in his mid forties.

DirtySox
11-06-2010, 03:09 PM
There is a very good chance that the starting third baseman is going to be in his mid forties.

Steering away from our usual stats conflict, do you want to see Morel awarded the starting 3B position? Do you think he needs more seasoning?

TaylorStSox
11-06-2010, 04:00 PM
There is a very good chance that the starting third baseman is going to be in his mid forties.

So your comparing AJ to a HOF shortstop? Whats your point? Also theres no way in hell that happens.

BringHomeDaBacon
11-06-2010, 05:30 PM
So your comparing AJ to a HOF shortstop? Whats your point? Also theres no way in hell that happens.

I'm sure that's what most people would have said before last season regarding the possibility of Omar and Kotsay making a combined 750 plate appearances.

dickallen15
11-06-2010, 06:03 PM
He's also a 34 year old who put up a .688 ops last year.
Yes, but he was much better after May, so I don't think it was father time. The pitching staff likes throwing to him. Catcher isn't all OPS. It isn't necessarily having a cannon throwing to second. There's a lot of psychology at that postion. Its what I think AJ is better at than most. BTW, The AL champions catchers combined for a .608 OPS in 2010.

Daver
11-06-2010, 06:07 PM
So your comparing AJ to a HOF shortstop? Whats your point? Also theres no way in hell that happens.

No, you are, I'm merely pointing out that the age thing is kind of a silly point to try and make.

russ99
11-06-2010, 06:48 PM
I'm sure that's what most people would have said before last season regarding the possibility of Omar and Kotsay making a combined 750 plate appearances.

Until we spend like the Yankees or Red Sox, we're not going to have solid players at every position, like only the Yankees and Red Sox do.

Look at our World Series champs. Tons of question marks that came together at the right time. That goes double for the Giants this year.

Playing devil's advocate, what's do the stat guys consider as an acceptable OPS (or wOBA) at each position for the Sox?

soltrain21
11-06-2010, 07:28 PM
Until we spend like the Yankees or Red Sox, we're not going to have solid players at every position, like only the Yankees and Red Sox do.

Look at our World Series champs. Tons of question marks that came together at the right time. That goes double for the Giants this year.

Playing devil's advocate, what's do the stat guys consider as an acceptable OPS (or wOBA) at each position for the Sox?

I'm sorry, our payroll is over 100 million dollars. We should have better than Mark Kotsay.

And we don't have to spend like the Yankees or Red Sox. We could, you know, develop players and not have to spend so much in free agency, which winds up making us fill holes with "lightening in a bottle" type of guys.

Daver
11-06-2010, 07:32 PM
I'm sorry, our payroll is over 100 million dollars. We should have better than Mark Kotsay.

And we don't have to spend like the Yankees or Red Sox. We could, you know, develop players and not have to spend so much in free agency, which winds up making us fill holes with "lightening in a bottle" type of guys.

Developing talent is much more expensive than signing mid tier free agents.

TaylorStSox
11-06-2010, 07:45 PM
Yes, but he was much better after May, so I don't think it was father time. The pitching staff likes throwing to him. Catcher isn't all OPS. It isn't necessarily having a cannon throwing to second. There's a lot of psychology at that postion. Its what I think AJ is better at than most. BTW, The AL champions catchers combined for a .608 OPS in 2010.

Obviously I would rather have a stud defender over a Victor Martinez. My point is that AJ is neither.

Brian26
11-06-2010, 08:14 PM
No, you are, I'm merely pointing out that the age thing is kind of a silly point to try and make.

Especially when you consider this franchise saw Fisk play productive baseball into his 40s. I'm not comparing AJ to Fisk, BTW.

tm1119
11-06-2010, 08:14 PM
Yes, but he was much better after May, so I don't think it was father time. The pitching staff likes throwing to him. Catcher isn't all OPS. It isn't necessarily having a cannon throwing to second. There's a lot of psychology at that postion. Its what I think AJ is better at than most. BTW, The AL champions catchers combined for a .608 OPS in 2010.

And the World Series champ's catcher had an OPS of .862.....Youre point is irrelevant and the fact that 1 team happened to succeed with sub par catching is reaching at best. I dont think anyone(or at least me) is debating that we are going to get a good hitting catcher behind the plate next year. Its highly unlikely. The point that Im trying to make is that you dont pay someone way more than they are worth, regardless of how long hes been on the team. AJ's production is worth 3-4M a year in a good year, hes coming off of a sub par year and is only getting older. You dont pay someone like that the 5 or 6 M like AJ surely is going to ask for. Would you rather have just AJ at 12 M for the next 2 years or a Castro/Barajas catching combo + the return of Putz for that same amount? Pretty easy for me really.

Daver
11-06-2010, 08:19 PM
And the World Series champ's catcher had an OPS of .862.....Youre point is irrelevant and the fact that 1 team happened to succeed with sub par catching is reaching at best. I dont think anyone(or at least me) is debating that we are going to get a good hitting catcher behind the plate next year. Its highly unlikely. The point that Im trying to make is that you dont pay someone way more than they are worth, regardless of how long hes been on the team. AJ's production is worth 3-4M a year in a good year, hes coming off of a sub par year and is only getting older. You dont pay someone like that the 5 or 6 M like AJ surely is going to ask for. Would you rather have just AJ at 12 M for the next 2 years or a Castro/Barajas catching combo + the return of Putz for that same amount? Pretty easy for me really.

What qualifies you to dictate what any given player is worth?

tm1119
11-06-2010, 08:30 PM
What qualifies you to dictate what any given player is worth?

Common sense.....Sorry I dont believe in the magic fairy dust that AJ sprinkles on himself to give him great "intangibles" like you do. Our pitching staff has ranked in 26th, 25th, 11th, 7th, and 18th from '06-this year, yet you claim he is so great at handling a pitching staff. Our team as a whole hasnt won a playoff series since '06 either. And AJ has been sub par at the plate by any standards as well. So please enlighten me on these intangibles that AJ brings to the team that makes him so valuable. Id love to hear it.

Daver
11-06-2010, 08:31 PM
Common sense.....Sorry I dont believe in the magic fairy dust that AJ sprinkles on himself to give him great "intangibles" like you do. Our pitching staff has ranked in 26th, 25th, 11th, 7th, and 18th from '06-this year, yet you claim he is so great at handling a pitching staff. Our team as a whole hasnt won a playoff series since '06 either. And AJ has been sub par at the plate by any standards as well. So please enlighten me on these intangibles that AJ brings to the team that makes him so valuable. Id love to hear it.

How many pitches did AJ throw last season?

tm1119
11-06-2010, 08:37 PM
How many pitches did AJ throw last season?

Soooo.....youre saying that AJ has absolutely nothing to do with the pitching staff then?....What the heck is your point? Do you realize how little sense you make?
And that pitching staff you mentioned was highly regarded and highly paid. Dont act like they were a bunch of bums who stink and made AJ look bad.

Daver
11-06-2010, 08:49 PM
Soooo.....youre saying that AJ has absolutely nothing to do with the pitching staff then?....What the heck is your point? Do you realize how little sense you make?
And that pitching staff you mentioned was highly regarded and highly paid. Dont act like they were a bunch of bums who stink and made AJ look bad.

I don't think you have any clue what a catcher does let alone how it relates to the pitching staff, but then again I don't think you have a clue about a lot of things.

A catchers job is to study hitters tendencies, and to call pitches based on those tendencies as the situation warrants, he has no control over how those pitches are thrown, but you'll notice AJ rarely gets nodded off.

Based on your perception that AJ is to blame for the mediocre staff performance, are you also going to try and blame him for Peavy getting hurt? It fits right in line with the rest of your misguided ideas.

tm1119
11-06-2010, 09:11 PM
I don't think you have any clue what a catcher does let alone how it relates to the pitching staff, but then again I don't think you have a clue about a lot of things.

A catchers job is to study hitters tendencies, and to call pitches based on those tendencies as the situation warrants, he has no control over how those pitches are thrown, but you'll notice AJ rarely gets nodded off.

Based on your perception that AJ is to blame for the mediocre staff performance, are you also going to try and blame him for Peavy getting hurt? It fits right in line with the rest of your misguided ideas.

Where would you like me start on YOURE clueless and misguided post?
Do you realize how far scouting is advanced in the modern MLB? There are charts and graphs depicting every batters strengths, weaknesses, and tendencies already made up by a large department of scouting. The players really have very little to do. They go into games knowing what to throw to who in what situation. Of course AJ is watching film though, so is every pitcher and every other catcher.
But regardless of that fact, youre still completely contradicting yourself. Youre more or less saying that a catcher has very little to do with how a pitching staff performs because its purely based on whether the pitchers make the pitches or not. Yet, we're saying that we should keep AJ based on his influence on the pitching staff? Do you not see how little sense that makes? Unless, of course, youre blind love for AJ makes you think that he is 1 of the only catchers that is capable of calling a game. If thats the case, then Im done arguing with you because its pointless.

Daver
11-06-2010, 09:21 PM
Where would you like me start on YOURE clueless and misguided post?
Do you realize how far scouting is advanced in the modern MLB? There are charts and graphs depicting every batters strengths, weaknesses, and tendencies already made up by a large department of scouting. The players really have very little to do. They go into games knowing what to throw to who in what situation. Of course AJ is watching film though, so is every pitcher and every other catcher.
But regardless of that fact, youre still completely contradicting yourself. Youre more or less saying that a catcher has very little to do with how a pitching staff performs because its purely based on whether the pitchers make the pitches or not. Yet, we're saying that we should keep AJ based on his influence on the pitching staff? Do you not see how little sense that makes? Unless, of course, youre blind love for AJ makes you think that he is 1 of the only catchers that is capable of calling a game. If thats the case, then Im done arguing with you because its pointless.

I never said anything about AJ's influence on the pitching staff, and I don't appreciate having words put in my mouth.

tm1119
11-06-2010, 09:27 PM
I never said anything about AJ's influence on the pitching staff, and I don't appreciate having words put in my mouth.

Ok lets not get all sensitive now. So AJ has intangibles that make him very valuable to the team is what you said before correct? Hence why you are an advocate of keeping him. So if those intangibles dont pertain to the pitching staff......then exactly what do these intangibles do? And this is a dead serious question because you have still yet to answer it.

Daver
11-06-2010, 09:40 PM
Ok lets not get all sensitive now. So AJ has intangibles that make him very valuable to the team is what you said before correct? Hence why you are an advocate of keeping him. So if those intangibles dont pertain to the pitching staff......then exactly what do these intangibles do? And this is a dead serious question because you have still yet to answer it.

I never said that either.

I said that he is more valuable than any of the FA's on the market that would replace him, because of a lot of things, a lot of which have to do with the fact that he knows the game better than the manager and the bench coach.

And I have answered it many times, I can't force you to pay attention.

Brian26
11-06-2010, 09:42 PM
Where would you like me start on YOURE clueless and misguided post?

"Your". Not "Youre" or "You're".

Please continue calling Daver clueless though.

tm1119
11-06-2010, 10:04 PM
I never said that either.

I said that he is more valuable than any of the FA's on the market that would replace him, because of a lot of things, a lot of which have to do with the fact that he knows the game better than the manager and the bench coach.

And I have answered it many times, I can't force you to pay attention.

So youre saying that because we have a bad coach(which I agree with) that we should overpay for a subpar catcher? Still doesnt make sense. Maybe, I would agree with you if we were a winning team and AJ's influence was apparent, but the fact is is that we have not won a playoff series since '06. The intangibles that AJ posses have not worked whatsoever on this team since our miracle run in '05. Theres no reason to hold on to to a player like AJ at this point, other than pure sentiment.

And Brian, he called me clueless 1st if you notice. It was completely sarcastic. Thanks for pointing out my 1 spelling mistake too. Hope you feel better about yourself now.

Daver
11-06-2010, 10:24 PM
So youre saying that because we have a bad coach(which I agree with) that we should overpay for a subpar catcher? Still doesnt make sense. Maybe, I would agree with you if we were a winning team and AJ's influence was apparent, but the fact is is that we have not won a playoff series since '06. The intangibles that AJ posses have not worked whatsoever on this team since our miracle run in '05. Theres no reason to hold on to to a player like AJ at this point, other than pure sentiment.

And Brian, he called me clueless 1st if you notice. It was completely sarcastic. Thanks for pointing out my 1 spelling mistake too. Hope you feel better about yourself now.

Well, I never really endorsed re-signing AJ at any point in this thread (reading comprehension is a skill you should probably work on, if you are capable) I just pointed out a few simple things that make him more attractive than some of the players available via free agency.

And at no point in this thread did I call you clueless, remember what I said about putting words in my mouth.

tm1119
11-06-2010, 10:40 PM
Well, I never really endorsed re-signing AJ at any point in this thread (reading comprehension is a skill you should probably work on, if you are capable) I just pointed out a few simple things that make him more attractive than some of the players available via free agency.

And at no point in this thread did I call you clueless, remember what I said about putting words in my mouth.

Daver: "but then again I don't think you have a clue about a lot of things."

Yes, that is calling someone clueless in so many words. Stop acting like you're above it when, again, you just took another cheap shot at me. Its cool with me, I like the argument, but dont act like youre innocent in the banter and ban me again for no reason.

And just so we are clear, you endorse signing AJ at somewhere around this years salary of 6.75 million just because he is better than the free agent options that would make 1/4 of his salary? Because, if you had any reading comprehension skills, you would know that that was pretty much the entire argument of this thread.

Daver
11-06-2010, 10:43 PM
Daver: "but then again I don't think you have a clue about a lot of things."

Yes, that is calling someone clueless in so many words. Stop acting like you're above it when, again, you just took another cheap shot at me. Its cool with me, I like the argument, but dont act like youre innocent in the banter and ban me again for no reason.

And just so we are clear, you endorse signing AJ at somewhere around this years salary of 6.75 million just because he is better than the free agent options that would make 1/4 of his salary? Because, if you had any reading comprehension skills, you would know that that was pretty much the entire argument of this thread.

Where did I endorse signing him for any sum?

tm1119
11-06-2010, 10:53 PM
Where did I endorse signing him for any sum?

It was a question. Hence the question mark. (see i can make cheap sarcastic remarks too, its fun.)

Daver
11-06-2010, 11:02 PM
It was a question. Hence the question mark. (see i can make cheap sarcastic remarks too, its fun.)

What remark did I make that was sarcasm?

tm1119
11-06-2010, 11:13 PM
What remark did I make that was sarcasm?

Youre too much man. Fine you win, I'll say it just because I know its what you want to read. Just get back to me when you learn something about baseball.

TaylorStSox
11-06-2010, 11:19 PM
I think it's pretty simple. AJ had a horrible year. He's overpaid. He's not very good defensively, certainly not a plus defender. These "intangibles" that he brings are not helping an underachieving staff. We need to make some changes. Letting AJ walk seems like a good place to start. Hell, sign Buck or Olivo and let Coop call pitches. At this point in AJ's career the only thing he has over those guys is that he hits from the left side.
I'm not even sure you offer him arbitration. I cant see anybody signing him to a multi year deal, especially if they have give up picks.

Sam Spade
11-07-2010, 01:42 AM
Please continue calling Daver clueless though.

Someone had to do it.

I hate teal.

Daver
11-07-2010, 11:13 PM
Youre too much man. Fine you win, I'll say it just because I know its what you want to read. Just get back to me when you learn something about baseball.

Get back to me when you have the wit to debate your point, as opposed to shooting down points you think I might have tried to make.

I try to avoid debates with idiots, they will usually just drag you down their level and then pummel you with experience, suffice it to say you are no exception.

tm1119
11-08-2010, 01:30 AM
Get back to me when you have the wit to debate your point, as opposed to shooting down points you think I might have tried to make.

I try to avoid debates with idiots, they will usually just drag you down their level and then pummel you with experience, suffice it to say you are no exception.

I would respond to this, but youre a complete hypocrite that would ban me for making a similar post. Not that I care about this website, but I would like to stick around and continue to prove how wrong you about just about everything. Continue to have fun abusing the power you have on an internet message board though. Hope it gets you through your day.

voodoochile
11-08-2010, 02:19 AM
I would respond to this, but youre a complete hypocrite that would ban me for making a similar post. Not that I care about this website, but I would like to stick around and continue to prove how wrong you about just about everything. Continue to have fun abusing the power you have on an internet message board though. Hope it gets you through your day.

Funny thing... I actually do. Since you don't care and your only reason for coming here is to pick fights with Daver, I'll solve the problem.

And remember, he didn't ban you...

I did...

voodoochile
11-08-2010, 02:21 AM
Oh and I'm not going to split this thread, it's completely devolved at this moment in time. Feel free to start a new AJ negotiation thread as news becomes available.