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WhiteSoxFTW
11-03-2010, 10:29 AM
It was officially announced by Brooks Boyer on the Mully and Hanley show this morning on WSCR.

http://blogs.southtownstar.com/whitesox/2010/11/sox_wscr_announce_5-year_deal.html

WhiteSoxFTW
11-03-2010, 10:33 AM
I, for one, am extremely excited about this. 1999-2005 were dark days for White Sox radio. The 1000AM signal was lower at night, so I couldn't hear any evening games with ANY clarity at all during those years. This deal is a big win for us "downstate" fans. I get WSCR in Bloomington loud and clear.

:bandance:

ewokpelts
11-03-2010, 11:10 AM
so 5 more years of ed farmer? oh boy.....


btw, this deal dosent mean much, as you can listen to a game over your phone, online, or on xm with no problems.

WhiteSoxFTW
11-03-2010, 11:28 AM
so 5 more years of ed farmer? oh boy.....


btw, this deal dosent mean much, as you can listen to a game over your phone, online, or on xm with no problems.

A lot of people don't have "fancy" cell phones or XM radio. Plus, I'm not always at my computer when I want to listen to a game. I'm often outside during the summer or in the car. I would imagine there are quite a few others like me, especially fans who aren't young adults with the newest technology.

The more people you can reach with your FREE broadcast, the better. So, I believe you should give the White Sox more credit.

soxfanreggie
11-03-2010, 11:55 AM
I, for one, am extremely excited about this. 1999-2005 were dark days for White Sox radio. The 1000AM signal was lower at night, so I couldn't hear any evening games with ANY clarity at all during those years. This deal is a big win for us "downstate" fans. I get WSCR in Bloomington loud and clear.

:bandance:

I am very happy with WSCR's signal. I remember heading to Nebraska, and I had WSCR going in western Iowa. I dislike when they crank the signals down here in FL. What was once crystal clear is half static at night.

ewokpelts
11-03-2010, 11:58 AM
A lot of people don't have "fancy" cell phones or XM radio. Plus, I'm not always at my computer when I want to listen to a game. I'm often outside during the summer or in the car. I would imagine there are quite a few others like me, especially fans who aren't young adults with the newest technology.

The more people you can reach with your FREE broadcast, the better. So, I believe you should give the White Sox more credit.
you're also assuming that the sox care about out of state listeners. they should focus thier efforts on thier market, which is chicago and northwest indiana, not nebraska or kentucky.

fm serves the local market better, if you ask me.

Ex-Chicagoan
11-03-2010, 12:20 PM
fm serves the local market better, if you ask me.

How so, exactly? Which FM station should drop its music programming to carry baseball? Or are you proposing that an FM signal go all-sports?

Selfishly, I am thrilled to hear this, as 670 puts in a good signal here over the lake. I can get it in my car just fine, which is where I listen to ballgames. All those fancy Internet options don't work well while I drive.

doublem23
11-03-2010, 12:28 PM
you're also assuming that the sox care about out of state listeners. they should focus thier efforts on thier market, which is chicago and northwest indiana, not nebraska or kentucky.

fm serves the local market better, if you ask me.

How is that possible? Is there some mystery spot in the city that doesn't pick up AM but will pick up FM? Everyone in Chicago knows 670 is one of the 2 major sports stations along with 1000, as long as the Sox are on one of those, they should be fine in the local market. And, since 670 give more of our downstate friends a chance to listen to Sox games on the radio, it only sweetens the pot.

shenk16
11-03-2010, 12:29 PM
so 5 more years of ed farmer? oh boy.....

What's not to like about Farmer? He knows and teaches the game throughout the broadcast. I miss the old Rooney and Farmer days.

doublem23
11-03-2010, 12:32 PM
What's not to like about Farmer? He knows and teaches the game throughout the broadcast. I miss the old Rooney and Farmer days.

We've rehashed the Farmer argument numerous times, but the concensus at WSI generally seems to be Farmer is OK when he's got a good partner to keep him in line, like Rooney or Stone, but when he thinks he's the lead horse, as he did with Singleton and he does with DJ, he's just brutal.

Chris Singleton was an absolutely terrible radio guy for the Sox and now, he's one of the better talking heads at ESPN. Add that one up.

I personally miss the Rooney/Farmer days, too, but now that Rooney is gone, I wouldn't cry if Ed followed.

shenk16
11-03-2010, 12:41 PM
Any suggestions as to who people would like to replace him? I like the fact that Farmer played in the organization, although I guess with that thought process also comes the DJ's, Ventura's, and Thomas'.

fox23
11-03-2010, 12:44 PM
How is that possible? Is there some mystery spot in the city that doesn't pick up AM but will pick up FM? Everyone in Chicago knows 670 is one of the 2 major sports stations along with 1000, as long as the Sox are on one of those, they should be fine in the local market. And, since 670 give more of our downstate friends a chance to listen to Sox games on the radio, it only sweetens the pot.

I can't get AM in my office downtown, but I can get FM.

But overall, it is much better to keep them on AM for everyone than move to FM.

KenBerryGrab
11-03-2010, 12:53 PM
This is great news. There actually are Sox fans in neighboring states. We come in for four to six games a year, with a family of four.

Viva Medias B's
11-03-2010, 12:53 PM
It is always a good move to have ballgames on a 50,000-watt clear channel signal station like WSCR. That is the same reason the Cardinals returned to KMOX after catching hell from Cardinal Nation over their games being on weak KTRS.

Sockinchisox
11-03-2010, 03:10 PM
As part of the agreement the Sox are going to launch and HD radio channel.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20101103&content_id=15973596&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb

manders_01
11-03-2010, 03:10 PM
They're also launching an HD station: Link (http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20101103&content_id=15973596&vkey=news_cws&c_id=cws)

mzh
11-03-2010, 03:10 PM
Any suggestions as to who people would like to replace him? I like the fact that Farmer played in the organization, although I guess with that thought process also comes the DJ's, Ventura's, and Thomas'.
I can't remember whether it was Farmer or DJ who was on vacation at the time, but listening to Paciorek was pretty fun for a couple weeks this year. Wouldn't mind having him rejoin the crew.

Balfanman
11-03-2010, 03:35 PM
A lot of people don't have "fancy" cell phones or XM radio. Plus, I'm not always at my computer when I want to listen to a game. I'm often outside during the summer or in the car. I would imagine there are quite a few others like me, especially fans who aren't young adults with the newest technology.

The more people you can reach with your FREE broadcast, the better. So, I believe you should give the White Sox more credit.

Agree 100%! I live 2 hours away from the Cell and listen almost exclusively to the games on radio. I could not watch 1 game on T.V. last year, but listened to all 162 on WSCR. In the ESPN days I barely got them at all after 9:00 pm. FM stinks too, unless a local station is an affilliate.

Balfanman
11-03-2010, 03:40 PM
Any suggestions as to who people would like to replace him? I like the fact that Farmer played in the organization, although I guess with that thought process also comes the DJ's, Ventura's, and Thomas'.

I like Ed Farmer too, although I will agree that John Rooney was the best.

Don't forget that Steve Stone played for the Sox as well.

Balfanman
11-03-2010, 03:44 PM
I can't remember whether it was Farmer or DJ who was on vacation at the time, but listening to Paciorek was pretty fun for a couple weeks this year. Wouldn't mind having him rejoin the crew.

I loved Paciorek and wish that there was a way to bring him back. I don't mind DJ., and he is better when he is away from Farmer & Hawk, but I prefer Paciorek and Farmer together on radio.

Mendoza Line
11-03-2010, 04:47 PM
The HD station will be a 24/7 White Sox station? That's awesome!

tebman
11-03-2010, 05:21 PM
I can't get AM in my office downtown, but I can get FM.

But overall, it is much better to keep them on AM for everyone than move to FM.

I agree. AM radio is old-school, but it's still the champ in blanketing enormous areas at low cost. Eventually we'll all have WiFi/iPod/Blackberry gadgets that will pick up internet everywhere, but until that becomes universal, AM broadcast is by far the easiest way to broadcast a ballgame.

AM reception in steel-frame buildings has been a problem since the 1920s, but if you can get a loop of wire next to a window and loop the other end of the wire around am AM radio, you'll get the signal. Simple and cheap.

The HD channel they're talking about is a good idea too, because so far there hasn't been much reason to listen to HD channels, let alone buy a radio that can pick it up. Now they just need to abandon the idea of HD on the AM band because all it does is add a lot of hiss for a limited reception area. Let AM do what it does best and let the FM HD channels do what they can do best.

Hitmen77
11-03-2010, 05:40 PM
This may be a dumb question, but what is HD radio? I've heard station talk about the fact that they have HD broadcasts but I really don't know anything about it.

Is HD radio free (with the proper equipment)? Do most new radios (cars and home) come with the ability to pick up HD? Do this stations broadcast in a better quality sound...or are they just subchannels to existing radio stations with the same quality? Do many people listen to HD radio or is this an obscure thing that isn't catching on?

I'll hang up and listen for the response. :D:

downstairs
11-03-2010, 06:17 PM
This may be a dumb question, but what is HD radio? I've heard station talk about the fact that they have HD broadcasts but I really don't know anything about it.

Is HD radio free (with the proper equipment)? Do most new radios (cars and home) come with the ability to pick up HD? Do this stations broadcast in a better quality sound...or are they just subchannels to existing radio stations with the same quality? Do many people listen to HD radio or is this an obscure thing that isn't catching on?

I'll hang up and listen for the response. :D:

Its sort of a gimmick since no one really wants it.

What it does allow is, like over-the-air HD TV, a station to split their signal among 2-3 actual channels. Not sure if you use over-the-air HD, but some local networks have a channel just for weather, the main channel, and sometimes even a third channel to run re-runs of the news.

So, this is why the White Sox can easily have their own "station" because its really just a split from someone else's station.

chisoxfanatic
11-03-2010, 06:18 PM
you're also assuming that the sox care about out of state listeners. they should focus thier efforts on thier market, which is chicago and northwest indiana, not nebraska or kentucky.

fm serves the local market better, if you ask me.
I think it's a great thing that the broadcasts can reach a very large range of people...Just think of all the extra interest will be developed because of that exposure.

DumpJerry
11-03-2010, 06:43 PM
you're also assuming that the sox care about out of state listeners. they should focus thier efforts on thier market, which is chicago and northwest indiana, not nebraska or kentucky.

fm serves the local market better, if you ask me.
This post makes no sense. How is having a 50,000 watt station not focusing their efforts on "their market?" You can get the Sox game on the radio in Chicago all the time since there are no blackout rules for local broadcasts.

What is wrong with allowing a game to be heard in other states? It does not dilute the quality of the broadcast if there are people in Omaha listening to the game.

Since you want to be asked, how does FM serve a local market better? In my office, I get AM with no problems, but FM does not come in. Never mind the guy in the office next to mine has the opposite problem with virtually the same radio.

Brian26
11-03-2010, 11:09 PM
I, for one, am extremely excited about this. 1999-2005 were dark days for White Sox radio.

Funny. I consider 2006-2010 as the dark days of Sox radio.

But, hey, let's keep congratulating the radio outlet than ran John Rooney out of town because they couldn't afford to give him a respectful offer, instead actually proposing a decrease in his salary after his working for the Sox for 17 seasons. Meanwhile, during the same time, they opened up the coffers to fund Mike North's circus in the morning.

Brian26
11-03-2010, 11:10 PM
How is that possible? Is there some mystery spot in the city that doesn't pick up AM but will pick up FM?

Pretty much any building downtown that has concrete and steel. I thought you lived in the city? :tongue:

manders_01
11-04-2010, 12:25 AM
The HD station will be a 24/7 White Sox station? That's awesome!

No, it will be Sox & Bulls plus "the business of sports."

slavko
11-04-2010, 12:58 AM
Funny. I consider 2006-2010 as the dark days of Sox radio.

But, hey, let's keep congratulating the radio outlet than ran John Rooney out of town because they couldn't afford to give him a respectful offer, instead actually proposing a decrease in his salary after his working for the Sox for 17 seasons. Meanwhile, during the same time, they opened up the coffers to fund Mike North's circus in the morning.

Brought a chuckle. Not totally true since John wanted to go home. But what the hey, it's the Internet. (Opened those coffers wiiiiiiiide.)

cnw8052
11-04-2010, 01:26 AM
I agree. This is awesome news. We in the northwestern part of IL have the same issues with weak AM1000.

I, for one, am extremely excited about this. 1999-2005 were dark days for White Sox radio. The 1000AM signal was lower at night, so I couldn't hear any evening games with ANY clarity at all during those years. This deal is a big win for us "downstate" fans. I get WSCR in Bloomington loud and clear.

:bandance:

cnw8052
11-04-2010, 01:30 AM
Well they're not doing the best job to focus on their market IMO, otherwise WCIU games would be available for those of us considered in the Chicago market, but too far from the city to get it. There are plenty of Sox fans out here in northwestern IL.

IMO, the more listeners/viewers you can reach, the better.

you're also assuming that the sox care about out of state listeners. they should focus thier efforts on thier market, which is chicago and northwest indiana, not nebraska or kentucky.

fm serves the local market better, if you ask me.

LoveYourSuit
11-04-2010, 01:31 AM
Funny. I consider 2006-2010 as the dark days of Sox radio.

But, hey, let's keep congratulating the radio outlet than ran John Rooney out of town because they couldn't afford to give him a respectful offer, instead actually proposing a decrease in his salary after his working for the Sox for 17 seasons. Meanwhile, during the same time, they opened up the coffers to fund Mike North's circus in the morning.


Rooney had no interest in coming back. He was going home to Stl. That is his dream job.

You honesty think JR and the Sox would have allowed WSCR to run him out of town for money? No way. The Sox have a ton of pull on who calls their games, reason DJ found a job right away after being bounced off the TV.

DumpJerry
11-04-2010, 07:51 AM
Rooney had no interest in coming back. He was going home to Stl. That is his dream job.

You honesty think JR and the Sox would have allowed WSCR to run him out of town for money? No way. The Sox have a ton of pull on who calls their games, reason DJ found a job right away after being bounced off the TV.
The broadcast team is not on the Sox' payroll. Hiring decisions for The Score runs through a bunch of management types at the home office for the company that owns The Score in New York

SOXSINCE'70
11-04-2010, 08:41 AM
I miss the old Rooney and Farmer days.

So do I.:(:

doublem23
11-04-2010, 09:14 AM
Pretty much any building downtown that has concrete and steel. I thought you lived in the city? :tongue:

:shrug:

I work in a relatively short building (only 23 floors) and I get all local FM and AM channels fine on my little radio.

LoveYourSuit
11-04-2010, 09:36 AM
The broadcast team is not on the Sox' payroll. Hiring decisions for The Score runs through a bunch of management types at the home office for the company that owns The Score in New York


They are business partners. The Sox have plenty of say on who calls their games.

So you and Brain are suggesting that due to the Score's Cheapness Rooney walked and the Sox did nothing about it?

ewokpelts
11-04-2010, 12:27 PM
The HD station will be a 24/7 White Sox station? That's awesome!sox and bulls, but ran by the sox.

Lip Man 1
11-04-2010, 12:28 PM
From my interview with Brooks Boyer:

BB: “We have a significant amount of input. If we don’t want someone or if say WSCR radio doesn’t want someone, either party can veto the choice. It’s a collaborative process, both of us have a large say in the matter. For example, and I’m just using this name, not that he was ever a candidate, if WSCR radio came to us and said we want Mike North in the Sox broadcasting booth, we’d say no. Why would we want someone who is going to knock our product or be very critical of it?”

“Regarding the specifics on Chris, it’s no secret that it came down to either him or Tommy John. There was a mutual feeling among us and WSCR that we wanted a fresh voice. Tommy and Ed were both pitchers and both played in the same era. The game had changed a lot since they were playing. We felt it would be better to have Ed’s perspective on the game and Chris’ who played at a different time in a different position and certainly Chris, like Tommy, was a member of the Sox family.”

“The process that time started when we put together a list of ten to fifteen names, WCSR radio put together a list of ten to fifteen names and then we interviewed candidates. We’d speak with them, then WSCR radio interviewed them, then we interviewed some candidates together before we made a choice.”

“Both Chris and Ed are employees of WSCR radio, not the White Sox.”

Lip

ewokpelts
11-04-2010, 12:30 PM
I think it's a great thing that the broadcasts can reach a very large range of people...Just think of all the extra interest will be developed because of that exposure.ok. fair enough. but IF someone found out about the sox on a high powered am signal, it's almost by chance the further you get away from the sox bradcast territory. a guy in his truck in wyoming MAY catch a game here and there, but will that make him buy a sox shirt? or come to chicago and see a game? prolly not.

Bump34
11-04-2010, 12:49 PM
From my interview with Brooks Boyer:

BB: “We have a significant amount of input. If we don’t want someone or if say WSCR radio doesn’t want someone, either party can veto the choice. It’s a collaborative process, both of us have a large say in the matter. For example, and I’m just using this name, not that he was ever a candidate, if WSCR radio came to us and said we want Mike North in the Sox broadcasting booth, we’d say no. Why would we want someone who is going to knock our product or be very critical of it?”

“Regarding the specifics on Chris, it’s no secret that it came down to either him or Tommy John. There was a mutual feeling among us and WSCR that we wanted a fresh voice. Tommy and Ed were both pitchers and both played in the same era. The game had changed a lot since they were playing. We felt it would be better to have Ed’s perspective on the game and Chris’ who played at a different time in a different position and certainly Chris, like Tommy, was a member of the Sox family.”

“The process that time started when we put together a list of ten to fifteen names, WCSR radio put together a list of ten to fifteen names and then we interviewed candidates. We’d speak with them, then WSCR radio interviewed them, then we interviewed some candidates together before we made a choice.”

“Both Chris and Ed are employees of WSCR radio, not the White Sox.”

Lip

They may technically be employees of WSCR... but the part of the rights money is usually funneled back to the team so that they can write the check and the announcers are still part of the MLB non field personnel pension plan etc...

MeteorsSox4367
11-04-2010, 12:56 PM
On the subject of Sox radio, it would be nice to hear someone like, oh I don't know, Bump34, as one of the voices.

Has MLB experience, Chicago guy, Sox fan...Maybe someday someone will make this happen.

Here's hoping.

gregoriop
11-04-2010, 01:48 PM
On the subject of Sox radio, it would be nice to hear someone like, oh I don't know, Bump34, as one of the voices.

Has MLB experience, Chicago guy, Sox fan...Maybe someday someone will make this happen.

Here's hoping.


Whatever happened to that experiment with putting alternate people on the SAP audio channel on TV? I don't remember how that went...probably not well if it hasn't been mentioned again.

DumpJerry
11-04-2010, 02:27 PM
ok. fair enough. but IF someone found out about the sox on a high powered am signal, it's almost by chance the further you get away from the sox bradcast territory. a guy in his truck in wyoming MAY catch a game here and there, but will that make him buy a sox shirt? or come to chicago and see a game? prolly not.
You know what, you're 100% correct about the effect a nationwide broadcast has on a team's fanbase. I have no idea why the Cubs wasted their time in the 80's going on that superstation known as WGN because they did not benefit one bit having people in the far-flung reaches of the USA being able to watch the Cubs pretty much any time they played.

The Cubs should have gone on Channel 44 instead. Does not get more local than that.

LoveYourSuit
11-04-2010, 02:34 PM
You know what, you're 100% correct about the effect a nationwide broadcast has on a team's fanbase. I have no idea why the Cubs wasted their time in the 80's going on that superstation known as WGN because they did not benefit one bit having people in the far-flung reaches of the USA being able to watch the Cubs pretty much any time they played.

The Cubs should have gone on Channel 44 instead. Does not get more local than that.

I think in this era of so many other media avenues like the internet and Sat Radio, it doen't make that much of a difference.

What the Cubs had with WGN in a time where you had about 20 some TV stations, that makes a current AM radio situation look like an ant compared to a mountain (WGN TV).

DumpJerry
11-04-2010, 02:35 PM
I think in this era of so many other media avenues like the internet and Sat Radio, it doen't make that much of a difference.

What the Cubs had with WGN in a time where you had about 20 some TV stations, that makes a current AM radio situation look like an ant compared to a mountain (WGN TV).
You misunderstood my point.

LoveYourSuit
11-04-2010, 02:41 PM
You misunderstood my point.


Just saying the arguement about reaching far beyond our state lines on an AM frequency these days is not a big deal.

Can it help, yes. But to the magnitude of what WGN TV did for the Cubs in the 80s, I don't think so.

tebman
11-04-2010, 02:46 PM
This may be a dumb question, but what is HD radio? I've heard station talk about the fact that they have HD broadcasts but I really don't know anything about it.

Is HD radio free (with the proper equipment)? Do most new radios (cars and home) come with the ability to pick up HD? Do this stations broadcast in a better quality sound...or are they just subchannels to existing radio stations with the same quality? Do many people listen to HD radio or is this an obscure thing that isn't catching on?

I'll hang up and listen for the response. :D:

Its sort of a gimmick since no one really wants it.

What it does allow is, like over-the-air HD TV, a station to split their signal among 2-3 actual channels. Not sure if you use over-the-air HD, but some local networks have a channel just for weather, the main channel, and sometimes even a third channel to run re-runs of the news.

So, this is why the White Sox can easily have their own "station" because its really just a split from someone else's station.

downstairs already explained it, and he's right: it's a gimmick. A digital signal with alternate programming is transmitted on top of the existing analog FM signal. If you have a radio that's equipped to decode the "HD" signal you can get the alternate program(s). Nice concept, but the range is limited because the piggyback digital signal is much weaker than the regular analog signal.

There's also an "HD" version for AM, but the bandwidth isn't great enough to allow alternate programs. The digital signal from an AM station is a clearer version of the same program on the regular signal. It too has limited range, so if you're listening to it and you get more than a few miles from the transmitter, the radio switches back to analog. It's really clunky.

Besides that, the piggyback digital signal creates an annoying hiss in the background of the regular signal and a roaring hiss in the frequencies either side of the analog signal. Next time you're in your car, listen to WSCR at 670, then switch to either 660 or 680 -- if the "HD" is turned on, there'll be a roaring hiss on those two frequencies from WSCR's digital baggage. It's a real problem at night when AM signals travel thousands of miles and the hiss finds its way into New Jersey while somebody's trying to listen to WFAN on 660.

AM "HD" radio needs to go the way of New Coke.

ewokpelts
11-04-2010, 02:48 PM
You know what, you're 100% correct about the effect a nationwide broadcast has on a team's fanbase. I have no idea why the Cubs wasted their time in the 80's going on that superstation known as WGN because they did not benefit one bit having people in the far-flung reaches of the USA being able to watch the Cubs pretty much any time they played.

The Cubs should have gone on Channel 44 instead. Does not get more local than that.tv and radio are different beasts. cubs benefited from the rise of cable tv. just like the braves. am radio in 2010 is nowhere near important as it was in 1982. and werent the sox on 670 back in the 80's and 90's ? when it was wbbm? and how did that impact the sox brand? not much at ALL.

tebman
11-04-2010, 02:57 PM
tv and radio are different beasts. cubs benefited from the rise of cable tv. just like the braves. am radio in 2010 is nowhere near important as it was in 1982. and werent the sox on 670 back in the 80's and 90's ? when it was wbbm? and how did that impact the sox brand? not much at ALL.

Here's the difference between WMVP and WSCR. These are coverage maps for both stations at night, showing a conservative estimate of groundwave coverage. Skywave coverage is many times wider but it varies depending on atmospheric conditions, so it's not predicted in these figures.

The big difference is that WSCR is spraying a maximum-power signal in all directions and typically covers a couple dozen states at night. WMVP is directional to the east, and so if you live west of DeKalb you're not going to hear it much at all. The Sox and their advertisers can enjoy a wider audience on WSCR.

Of course, if the Sox have a lousy season it wouldn't matter what signal they're on.



http://www.radio-locator.com/pats/WSCR_AM_LU.gif



http://www.radio-locator.com/pats/WMVP_AM_LN.gif

Sad
11-04-2010, 03:01 PM
tv and radio are different beasts. cubs benefited from the rise of cable tv. just like the braves. am radio in 2010 is nowhere near important as it was in 1982. and werent the sox on 670 back in the 80's and 90's ? when it was wbbm? and how did that impact the sox brand? not much at ALL.

I think it was WMAQ back then...

tebman
11-04-2010, 03:04 PM
I think it was WMAQ back then...

Yes it was. 670 was WMAQ from 1922-2000, and it's been WSCR since then.

DumpJerry
11-04-2010, 04:15 PM
tv and radio are different beasts. cubs benefited from the rise of cable tv. just like the braves. am radio in 2010 is nowhere near important as it was in 1982. and werent the sox on 670 back in the 80's and 90's ? when it was wbbm? and how did that impact the sox brand? not much at ALL.
You're still ignoring my point of why is it so bad they are on a 50,000 watt station the reaches people who can't hop in the car and buy a ticket 10 minutes before first pitch. You complain that they are not taking care of the local market by being on AM and not FM, but are you aware of people in the Chicago area who don't listen to Sox games on the radio because they are not on FM radio? Of course not, since AM is accessible in the entire area.

So, my question to you is how are the Sox hurting themselves by being on AM? Other than Hubbard's Cave and the half second I'm under an underpass, I have no trouble listening to the Sox game in my car in the Chicago area.

And, yes, 670 used to be WMAQ. WBBM has always been at 780, but since you're the radio expert, I'm sure you knew that already.

DumpJerry
11-04-2010, 04:19 PM
Here's the difference between WMVP and WSCR. These are coverage maps for both stations at night, showing a conservative estimate of groundwave coverage. Skywave coverage is many times wider but it varies depending on atmospheric conditions, so it's not predicted in these figures.

The big difference is that WSCR is spraying a maximum-power signal in all directions and typically covers a couple dozen states at night. WMVP is directional to the east, and so if you live west of DeKalb you're not going to hear it much at all. The Sox and their advertisers can enjoy a wider audience on WSCR.

Of course, if the Sox have a lousy season it wouldn't matter what signal they're on.



http://www.radio-locator.com/pats/WSCR_AM_LU.gif



http://www.radio-locator.com/pats/WMVP_AM_LN.gif
I recall a few years back when the AM1000 contract was up for renewal (and not renewed), Fenway explained that AM1000 in Chicago has to go directional east because the AM1000 station in, I believe, Seattle was a clear station that came pretty far east of Seattle and Chicago's AM1000 signal would interfere if it went west.

Ex-Chicagoan
11-04-2010, 04:24 PM
downstairs already explained it, and he's right: it's a gimmick. A digital signal with alternate programming is transmitted on top of the existing analog FM signal. If you have a radio that's equipped to decode the "HD" signal you can get the alternate program(s). Nice concept, but the range is limited because the piggyback digital signal is much weaker than the regular analog signal.

There's also an "HD" version for AM, but the bandwidth isn't great enough to allow alternate programs. The digital signal from an AM station is a clearer version of the same program on the regular signal. It too has limited range, so if you're listening to it and you get more than a few miles from the transmitter, the radio switches back to analog. It's really clunky.

Besides that, the piggyback digital signal creates an annoying hiss in the background of the regular signal and a roaring hiss in the frequencies either side of the analog signal. Next time you're in your car, listen to WSCR at 670, then switch to either 660 or 680 -- if the "HD" is turned on, there'll be a roaring hiss on those two frequencies from WSCR's digital baggage. It's a real problem at night when AM signals travel thousands of miles and the hiss finds its way into New Jersey while somebody's trying to listen to WFAN on 660.

AM "HD" radio needs to go the way of New Coke.

Very well said, tebman. We finally turned the HD off on our AM since it actually was making the signal worse for those without the HD tuners. In our case, it added a high-pitched hiss behind the audio, and the shrink in bandwidth just wasn't worth it.

I used to be able to get a number of long-range signals at night and several ballgames. I can still the Chicago 50kw signals, but not without some IBOC hash around 'em.

ewokpelts
11-04-2010, 04:27 PM
You're still ignoring my point of why is it so bad they are on a 50,000 watt station the reaches people who can't hop in the car and buy a ticket 10 minutes before first pitch. You complain that they are not taking care of the local market by being on AM and not FM, but are you aware of people in the Chicago area who don't listen to Sox games on the radio because they are not on FM radio? Of course not, since AM is accessible in the entire area.

So, my question to you is how are the Sox hurting themselves by being on AM? Other than Hubbard's Cave and the half second I'm under an underpass, I have no trouble listening to the Sox game in my car in the Chicago area.

And, yes, 670 used to be WMAQ. WBBM has always been at 780, but since you're the radio expert, I'm sure you knew that already.



Ok. how about this.


Do you listen to the radio at home?

The answer most people would give is not regularly.

And if you wer enot going to the game, but wanted to follow it, would you listen to it on the radio or watch it on tv?

i'm willing to bet that most people answer "tv".

so the 50,000 watt station has no bearing when you can just turn on the tv and WATCH the game.

this is where WGN/the cubs succeeded. people WATCH games more often than listen to then.
the cubs going national worked becuase they were on TV. wgn radio has always had a strong signal, but it didnt help the cubs get new fans. being on tv IN HOMES did.

tebman
11-04-2010, 04:32 PM
I recall a few years back when the AM1000 contract was up for renewal (and not renewed), Fenway explained that AM1000 in Chicago has to go directional east because the AM1000 station in, I believe, Seattle was a clear station that came pretty far east of Seattle and Chicago's AM1000 signal would interfere if it went west.

'Tis true. KOMO in Seattle is also on 1000 and at night it chokes its eastbound signal, while WMVP (the former WCFL) chokes its westbound signal. That was set up way back in the 1930s so that their signals would stay out of each other's way.

In the 1930s then-WCFL built its transmitter in far-west and lightly-populated Downers Grove so that the signal would be strong over Chicago. Seventy years later the population has spread far west of Downers Grove and WMVP is stuck with aiming its signal away from half its audience at night.

Viva Medias B's
11-04-2010, 04:42 PM
Funny. I consider 2006-2010 as the dark days of Sox radio.

But, hey, let's keep congratulating the radio outlet than ran John Rooney out of town because they couldn't afford to give him a respectful offer, instead actually proposing a decrease in his salary after his working for the Sox for 17 seasons. Meanwhile, during the same time, they opened up the coffers to fund Mike North's circus in the morning.

REVISIONIST HISTORY: Rooney wanted to go to St. Louis.

DumpJerry
11-04-2010, 04:51 PM
Ok. how about this.


Do you listen to the radio at home?

The answer most people would give is not regularly.

And if you wer enot going to the game, but wanted to follow it, would you listen to it on the radio or watch it on tv?

i'm willing to bet that most people answer "tv".

so the 50,000 watt station has no bearing when you can just turn on the tv and WATCH the game.

this is where WGN/the cubs succeeded. people WATCH games more often than listen to then.
the cubs going national worked becuase they were on TV. wgn radio has always had a strong signal, but it didnt help the cubs get new fans. being on tv IN HOMES did.
I listen to the radio at home since I do not have a TV in every room. But more to the point, what does television viewing habits have to do with your position that the Sox are hurting themselves being on AM and not FM? Admit it, you took a position before you fully thought it through and rather than saying "never mind," you keep diverting the discussion.

thechico
11-04-2010, 04:53 PM
Just saying the arguement about reaching far beyond our state lines on an AM frequency these days is not a big deal.

Can it help, yes. But to the magnitude of what WGN TV did for the Cubs in the 80s, I don't think so.

Doesn't matter if it was the 80s, or WGN.
For DECADES the Cubs got the widest coverage via free broadcast, while the Sox played around on low power, UHF, and later (shudder) pay tv. Sad to say, growing up in the 70s/80s in Downers Grove, I would have been a Cubs fan if my dad hadn't set me straight. UHF was lousy by us, and most games were during/after bedtime. During summer days, the Cubs were on, the Sox weren't. The first Sox game I ever was the first game I went to.
More coverage. Less cost.
And, FWIW, I got AM1000 OK, not great, when I lived 3.5 hours away in Indiana. Must have been my radio, the broadcast pattern, or both.

tebman
11-04-2010, 05:03 PM
Very well said, tebman. We finally turned the HD off on our AM since it actually was making the signal worse for those without the HD tuners. In our case, it added a high-pitched hiss behind the audio, and the shrink in bandwidth just wasn't worth it.

I used to be able to get a number of long-range signals at night and several ballgames. I can still the Chicago 50kw signals, but not without some IBOC hash around 'em.

To briefly hijack the thread, we should explain that IBOC (In-Band, On-Channel) is the generic name for the technology. "HD Radio" is a brand name owned by iBiquity, the company that makes the digital-radio equipment. A lot of development and equipment expense has gone into this and the backers clearly want it to work. Maybe with future tweaks the FM version could be made more reliable but the AM version just causes more problems than it solves. The notion of a dedicated White Sox channel on an FM subsignal is a good one because at least it's an original idea.

As to the question of whether it's better to have baseball on AM or FM stations, it's mostly a matter of how easily do the teams want to reach the largest number of people with audio play-by-play. Obviously if there's a choice most people would watch it on TV, but for those environments where that's not an option (in the car, at a picnic, working in the yard, jogging, etc.), simple AM broadcast is the most reliable. FM has higher bandwidth and sounds crisper, but this isn't music: it's a spoken description of a ballgame.

Full-power AM does one thing well, and that's cover wide areas using low-cost receivers. FM does high-fidelity sound well with a more limited range. IBOC is a third wheel that's been clumsily grafted on to both services in a vain effort to compete with satellite radio. And some years from now none of this will matter because wireless internet will be so pervasive that only techie dinosaurs like me will pine for broadcast radio. Maybe we'll all have iPad caps that automatically choose from among any of a thousand streaming ballgames! :cool:

Brian26
11-04-2010, 07:53 PM
They are business partners. The Sox have plenty of say on who calls their games.

So you and Brain are suggesting that due to the Score's Cheapness Rooney walked and the Sox did nothing about it?

Partially, yes. See below.

REVISIONIST HISTORY: Rooney wanted to go to St. Louis.

The only revisionist history has been on the part of the Sox. When this story broke before the end of the 2005 season, the Sox avoided any liability by stating the negotiations were being performed by WSCR. Long after Rooney was gone and the heat had died down, the Sox finally started to admit that they were part of the process (see Lip's interview).

I've said this before. I don't disagree that Rooney wanted to go back to St. Louis. The truth is that the Sox did nothing to try to keep him here. It has been documented that he was offered a decrease in salary as part of the contract in 2006. That's insane.

The only comparison I can make is to Mark Buehrle. It's long been documented that he wouldn't mind going back home to St. Louis to pitch. He made nine million for the Sox in 2007. This would be like the Sox offering him $6.5 million to come back and pitch in 2008. After he would decline that offer, the Sox would claim the Levy Brothers were in charge of negotiations and had no control over it. Then, two years later, the Sox would say they were part of the process, but Buehrle really wanted to go to St. Louis and there was nothing they could do to stop him.

I've always thought the radio pbp is the most important broadcaster for the team, far more important than the tv guys. He's the guy you can listen to in your car, on your headphones when you're mowing the lawn, or in bed at night when you're falling asleep. After 17 years with the team and being rated, with Farmer, as the best radio team in MLB, the Sox's response in September of 2005 was that WSCR was "handling the negotiations." Unacceptable. Reinsdorf himself should have been part of the negotiations, not Mitch Rosen or some CBS suit in New York.

Whether it was arrogance, a cost-cutting move, or just plain ignorance about the value of Rooney, the move to let him walk away without a fight was a huge blunder on the part of the Sox that, to this day, has not been corrected.

I generally like Brooks, but this is one point that I think he's full of **** about. And, with as much class as Rooney has shown through the years, I don't expect to ever see him embarrass the Sox about the subject.

cnw8052
11-04-2010, 08:25 PM
This isn't exactly true either. I HAVE to listen to the games on the radio when they "hide" games on WCIU. Comcast doesn't carry WCIU here in the western half of Illinois. As you can see in the maps posted, AM1000 doesn't come out here either. We ARE in the Chicago market, so we should get the radio/TV here. WSCR provides that on the radio side.

Our local AM station does carry the Sox games as part of the Sox radio network, but when the game ends, they pull the plug without broadcasting the post-game show. So a strong AM signal on 670 is very welcome here.

So to the people that say the broadcasts shouldn't go beyond the state lines, fine, but they should at least cover the fanbase region, and AM 1000 does NOT do that IMO.

Ok. how about this.


Do you listen to the radio at home?

The answer most people would give is not regularly.

And if you wer enot going to the game, but wanted to follow it, would you listen to it on the radio or watch it on tv?

i'm willing to bet that most people answer "tv".

so the 50,000 watt station has no bearing when you can just turn on the tv and WATCH the game.

this is where WGN/the cubs succeeded. people WATCH games more often than listen to then.
the cubs going national worked becuase they were on TV. wgn radio has always had a strong signal, but it didnt help the cubs get new fans. being on tv IN HOMES did.

RockJock07
11-04-2010, 11:59 PM
Funny this topic came up because I live outside Memphis and this evening I went to go pick up dinner at about 7pm and started my car to switch to 680 AM (ESPN radio here) and stopped at 670 because i heard it load and clear. Hub was on talking bears.

Memphis is over 8 hours for downtown Chicago. When i travel back and forth i usually lose 670 in Effingham.

interesting, sorry to get off topic a bit I just thought i would share that.

ewokpelts
11-05-2010, 09:42 AM
I listen to the radio at home since I do not have a TV in every room. But more to the point, what does television viewing habits have to do with your position that the Sox are hurting themselves being on AM and not FM? Admit it, you took a position before you fully thought it through and rather than saying "never mind," you keep diverting the discussion.YOU brought the cubs/wgn angle into this. i'm merely responding to it.

WhiteSoxFTW
11-05-2010, 10:43 AM
you're also assuming that the sox care about out of state listeners. they should focus thier efforts on thier market, which is chicago and northwest indiana, not nebraska or kentucky.

fm serves the local market better, if you ask me.

I was never talking about out of state. I was talking about DOWNSTATE ILLINOIS. Geez. I love how Chicago people always assume that the people that matter are all north of I-80. :angry:

WhiteSoxFTW
11-05-2010, 10:58 AM
Well they're not doing the best job to focus on their market IMO, otherwise WCIU games would be available for those of us considered in the Chicago market, but too far from the city to get it. There are plenty of Sox fans out here in northwestern IL.

IMO, the more listeners/viewers you can reach, the better.

I am with you on the WCIU thing. I HATE HATE HATE WCIU. :angry: I am too far to get the games, but too close to watch WCIU games on any the Extra Innings TV package or online MLB.TV.

Since I miss all WCIU games on TV, having a crystal clear AM signal to listen to games on WSCR is that much more important.

Ranger
11-06-2010, 02:12 AM
I can't get AM in my office downtown, but I can get FM.

But overall, it is much better to keep them on AM for everyone than move to FM.

Pretty much any building downtown that has concrete and steel. I thought you lived in the city? :tongue:

Yeah, it's pretty tough to pick up an AM signal in any downtown area. FM sounds better and is short range, AM signal is exactly the opposite.

hawkjt
11-12-2010, 11:43 AM
I was never talking about out of state. I was talking about DOWNSTATE ILLINOIS. Geez. I love how Chicago people always assume that the people that matter are all north of I-80. :angry:

It is funny,because when the Sox switched to AM1000,I called Rob Gallas to complain that my Sox fan buddies in Iowa could no longer get the games,and he replied'' our fans are in the chicago area only''

I was horrified to hear a marketing director flatly dismiss the concept of servicing far-flung fans. My buddies always made the trip in for a couple of Sox games every year,but were so pissed they cut it to once a year. Nice job,Rob.

This is great news. As far as the coverage map...I have gotten the Score in out at my parents,which is 420 miles due west in western Iowa. That is one helluva signal. Great news for Sox fans thruout the midwest.

Nellie_Fox
11-12-2010, 02:17 PM
It is funny,because when the Sox switched to AM1000,I called Rob Gallas to complain that my Sox fan buddies in Iowa could no longer get the games,and he replied'' our fans are in the chicago area only''

I was horrified to hear a marketing director flatly dismiss the concept of servicing far-flung fans. My buddies always made the trip in for a couple of Sox games every year,but were so pissed they cut it to once a year. Nice job,Rob.

This is great news. As far as the coverage map...I have gotten the Score in out at my parents,which is 420 miles due west in western Iowa. That is one helluva signal. Great news for Sox fans thruout the midwest.I get The Score pretty reliably after dark in south-central Minnesota.

ewokpelts
11-12-2010, 02:36 PM
so what's the point of the white sox radio network if everyone wants to listen on the score?

vinny
11-12-2010, 03:14 PM
Ok. how about this.


Do you listen to the radio at home?

The answer most people would give is not regularly.

And if you wer enot going to the game, but wanted to follow it, would you listen to it on the radio or watch it on tv?

i'm willing to bet that most people answer "tv".

so the 50,000 watt station has no bearing when you can just turn on the tv and WATCH the game.

this is where WGN/the cubs succeeded. people WATCH games more often than listen to then.
the cubs going national worked becuase they were on TV. wgn radio has always had a strong signal, but it didnt help the cubs get new fans. being on tv IN HOMES did.

Me personally, I live in the city and don't have cable or satellite. So if the Sox aren't on WGN or WCIU, radio is my only choice. Plus I can put the headphone radio on and walk around the house, comment on WSI, cut the grass, whatever, during the game.

I think while I may be in the minority, it's not an insignificant minority.


so what's the point of the white sox radio network if everyone wants to listen on the score?
Daytime coverage of games outside Chicago?

Nellie_Fox
11-12-2010, 03:29 PM
so what's the point of the white sox radio network if everyone wants to listen on the score?I don't even know what other stations are on the "network," but I'm assuming that they're small, low-powered stations. The reach of The Score allows coverage in areas where there are no "network" stations available.

TheOldRoman
11-12-2010, 04:45 PM
I don't even know what other stations are on the "network," but I'm assuming that they're small, low-powered stations. The reach of The Score allows coverage in areas where there are no "network" stations available.I hated WCIU games when I was at school in Champaign. This was in the AM1000 days, and it was nothing but static even at night. The Sox had a Champaign network affiliate listed on their website, but I think it was out of date. Every time I tried to get Sox games it was either smooth jazz or black church broadcasts. Maybe they only caried weekend games, I don't know. I wouldn't be surprised if other areas had stations listed as being in the Sox network which failed to air games regularly because even poorly rated local shows would do better. There proabably aren't enough Sox fans in southern Illinois to make it worthwhile for stations to carry games, but the Score could still reach fans in that area.

Ex-Chicagoan
11-12-2010, 05:30 PM
I don't even know what other stations are on the "network," but I'm assuming that they're small, low-powered stations. The reach of The Score allows coverage in areas where there are no "network" stations available.

WROK/Rockford was in the network when I was there. While not necessarily a powerhouse, it was, for many years, the #1 station in its area.

Viva Medias B's
11-12-2010, 05:47 PM
Years back, the White Sox used to share WTAX-AM in Springfield with the Cardinals.

tsoxman
11-13-2010, 07:24 AM
Partially, yes. See below.



The only revisionist history has been on the part of the Sox. When this story broke before the end of the 2005 season, the Sox avoided any liability by stating the negotiations were being performed by WSCR. Long after Rooney was gone and the heat had died down, the Sox finally started to admit that they were part of the process (see Lip's interview).

I've said this before. I don't disagree that Rooney wanted to go back to St. Louis. The truth is that the Sox did nothing to try to keep him here. It has been documented that he was offered a decrease in salary as part of the contract in 2006. That's insane.

The only comparison I can make is to Mark Buehrle. It's long been documented that he wouldn't mind going back home to St. Louis to pitch. He made nine million for the Sox in 2007. This would be like the Sox offering him $6.5 million to come back and pitch in 2008. After he would decline that offer, the Sox would claim the Levy Brothers were in charge of negotiations and had no control over it. Then, two years later, the Sox would say they were part of the process, but Buehrle really wanted to go to St. Louis and there was nothing they could do to stop him.

I've always thought the radio pbp is the most important broadcaster for the team, far more important than the tv guys. He's the guy you can listen to in your car, on your headphones when you're mowing the lawn, or in bed at night when you're falling asleep. After 17 years with the team and being rated, with Farmer, as the best radio team in MLB, the Sox's response in September of 2005 was that WSCR was "handling the negotiations." Unacceptable. Reinsdorf himself should have been part of the negotiations, not Mitch Rosen or some CBS suit in New York.

Whether it was arrogance, a cost-cutting move, or just plain ignorance about the value of Rooney, the move to let him walk away without a fight was a huge blunder on the part of the Sox that, to this day, has not been corrected.

I generally like Brooks, but this is one point that I think he's full of **** about. And, with as much class as Rooney has shown through the years, I don't expect to ever see him embarrass the Sox about the subject.
Well said, Brian.

Dub25
11-13-2010, 11:28 PM
so 5 more years of ed farmer? oh boy.....


btw, this deal dosent mean much, as you can listen to a game over your phone, online, or on xm with no problems.

Doesn't really matter what station the Sox are on, Farmer would still be in the booth. He was when Rooney made the final call in 2005 when they were still on ESPN1000. They went to the Score the following season.

RustyKuntz
02-18-2011, 04:16 PM
Has anybody heard anything lately about the all-White Sox HD radio station that was announced in November? 104.3-3, I believe.

Here is the original announcement
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20101103&content_id=15973596&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb

Is it broadcasting? If not, is there a start date?

Soxfest
02-19-2011, 04:23 PM
:smile:i like it!

Whitesox029
02-19-2011, 06:10 PM
How is that possible? Is there some mystery spot in the city that doesn't pick up AM but will pick up FM? Everyone in Chicago knows 670 is one of the 2 major sports stations along with 1000, as long as the Sox are on one of those, they should be fine in the local market. And, since 670 give more of our downstate friends a chance to listen to Sox games on the radio, it only sweetens the pot.
The people who are from downstate can go suck a lemon as far as I'm concerned. My roommate worked at a Dick's Sporting Goods in Champaign, and they didn't carry White Sox merchandise because they only got shipments for "local teams": the Cardinals and the Cubs. Ironically, he said a majority of the staff were Sox fans.

This is a victory for displaced Chicagoans downstate, for college or otherwise. You can't get Chicago FM in Champaign, for example, or even AM 1000 at night.
so 5 more years of ed farmer? oh boy.....


btw, this deal dosent mean much, as you can listen to a game over your phone, online, or on xm with no problems.
You can't listen to MLB games on any of those services without paying for some kind of subscription. The Score's web stream plays alternative or recorded programming during Sox games. I've never listened to a Sox radio broadcast on anything but a real radio.
And honestly, even if my phone could stream games, I'd rather press two buttons on my car stereo than fumble with my phone while driving.

spongyfungy
02-19-2011, 08:57 PM
Can't you listen to White Sox on their radio network? The list says WBCP-AM 1580 carries games in Champaign

http://mlb.mlb.com/cws/schedule/radio_affiliates.jsp

Whitesox029
02-19-2011, 09:03 PM
Can't you listen to White Sox on their radio network? The list says WBCP-AM 1580 carries games in Champaign

http://mlb.mlb.com/cws/schedule/radio_affiliates.jsp
Supposedly yes, but that station's signal is practically nonexistent. I couldn't even get it to come in enough to be able to recognize the broadcasters' voices. Besides, there was no need to once I figured out that the flagship station comes in loud and clear at all times of day down there, at least on a car radio.

RustyKuntz
02-22-2011, 02:26 PM
So...nobody knows if the new all-White Sox radio station is broadcasting yet?

According to the release:
As part of this new agreement, the White Sox will launch a HD channel on 104.3-3. According to club vice president and chief marketing officer Brooks Boyer, the new channel will focus on White Sox programming and Bulls programming, factoring in chairman Jerry Reinsdorf's two teams, as well as the business of sports, with content created exclusively by the club.

I don't have an HD Radio...so I was wondering if someone on here did.

Guess not. :(: