PDA

View Full Version : Sox interested in Rasmus


JermaineDye05
10-30-2010, 01:43 AM
Who wouldn't be?

Link (http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/2848394,CST-SPT-sox30.article)

It's Cowley though, so TFWIW.

DirtySox
10-30-2010, 02:04 AM
Who wouldn't be?

Bingo. I'd wager he stays in St. Louis though.

guillensdisciple
10-30-2010, 02:29 AM
If there is a deal that needs to be made to really make this team impenetrable, this is it. Or a move like this. WE have to get another quality bat.

Rockabilly
10-30-2010, 09:21 AM
http://dave-andriesen.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22297882/25554357

Props goes out to anyone that makes fun out of Cowley..

I hope that the Sox do get Rasmus.

DirtySox
10-30-2010, 10:31 AM
http://a3.twimg.com/profile_images/396680359/EM-1E_thumb_normal.gif
JoeStrauss (http://twitter.com/#%21/JoeStrauss) Joe Strauss
Quentin for Raz' stuff been percolating since end of season. According to one Cardinal FO type: "Gotta do better than that." #Fail (http://twitter.com/#%21/search?q=%23Fail)
12 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/#%21/JoeStrauss/status/29192328885)


Pretty much.

Marqhead
10-30-2010, 11:21 AM
Have Rasmus and LaRussa settled their differences? I thought that was the main reason why he might be on his way out of St. Louis.

tm1119
10-30-2010, 11:43 AM
Quentin + ......? Who do we have that they would actually want? The only way I could see something getting done would be John Danks for Rasmus. We would then have an OF of Pierre in LF, Rasmus in CF, and Rios in right with CQ at DH. We would then have a hole for a 5th starter...could Sale conceivably start next season? Dont know just a thought.

DirtySox
10-30-2010, 12:22 PM
http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2010/10/high-hurdles-face-sox-in-efforts-to-land-rasmus.html

Supposedly St. Louis scouts were watching Sox prospects in the AFL. Probably just routine scouting, but Eduardo would definitely be in play for a trade. He's been getting glowing scouting reports and is blocked by Alexei for the foreseeable future. He's becoming a valuable trade chip. Mitchell could be part of any possible deal as well.

Brian26
10-30-2010, 12:39 PM
Get it done, Kenny.

If Quentin hits 60 HRs in St. Louis, I'll be happy for him with no regrets. I just don't think the Sox can rely on him right now.

Foulke You
10-30-2010, 12:46 PM
We would then have an OF of Pierre in LF, Rasmus in CF.
I don't know too much about Rasmus defensively but is he really a better defensive option in CF than Rios? I'd hate to move Alex out of the CF spot. He plays so well out there and covers a ton of ground, plus it is his natural outfield position.

Foulke You
10-30-2010, 12:48 PM
Have Rasmus and LaRussa settled their differences? I thought that was the main reason why he might be on his way out of St. Louis.
St. Louis media reported in July that Rasmus was unhappy in St. Louis and demanded a trade. If there was a rift between Rasmus and LaRussa, this could be a reason why they might explore trading him.

JermaineDye05
10-30-2010, 12:57 PM
St. Louis media reported in July that Rasmus was unhappy in St. Louis and demanded a trade. If there was a rift between Rasmus and LaRussa, this could be a reason why they might explore trading him.

Pujols wasn't too happy about it either.

canOcorn
10-30-2010, 01:17 PM
Who wouldn't be?

Link (http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/2848394,CST-SPT-sox30.article)

It's Cowley though, so TFWIW.

Ozzie still crying that dumping Thome wasn't his idea. :rolleyes:

JermaineDye05
10-30-2010, 01:41 PM
Ozzie still crying that dumping Thome wasn't his idea. :rolleyes:

Do you have proof contrary to that? The only people that know the truth are Jerry, Kenny, and Ozzie.

MtGrnwdSoxFan
10-30-2010, 01:46 PM
Ozzie still crying that dumping Thome wasn't his idea. :rolleyes:

That's a crock and a half. The "rotating DH" WAS his idea, ergo, him claiming that he wouldn't be able to find Thome at bats is deciding to get rid of Thome.

Lord knows Kotsay was the pure DH we needed. :rolleyes:

1989
10-30-2010, 02:48 PM
I thought Cowley was done?

Lip Man 1
10-30-2010, 04:11 PM
He's still the Sox beat writer until January 1st then he moves over to a different assignment with the Sun-Times sports department.

Lip

JermaineDye05
10-30-2010, 04:27 PM
he's still the sox beat writer until january 1st then he moves over to a different assignment with the sun-times sports department.

Lip

tmz?

Marqhead
10-30-2010, 04:59 PM
Ozzie for Rasmus. Get it done KW.

MtGrnwdSoxFan
10-30-2010, 05:29 PM
Ozzie for Rasmus. Get it done KW.

I wish.

Quentin and Buehrle for Rasmus and a AA pitcher...although I'd be hesitant about dealing Buehrle until we know that Peavy is going to be back healthy. But if it gets us a solid left-handed bat, I'd have to think hard about that one.

Brian26
10-30-2010, 05:40 PM
Do you have proof contrary to that? The only people that know the truth are Jerry, Kenny, and Ozzie.

Are you serious? Kenny was ready to announce the Thome re-signing at Soxfest, but Guillen was whining about it in his hotel room and made the final decision the Monday after Soxfest to say no to Thome.

DickAllen72
10-30-2010, 05:42 PM
I wish.

Quentin and Buehrle for Rasmus and a AA pitcher...although I'd be hesitant about dealing Buehrle until we know that Peavy is going to be back healthy. But if it gets us a solid left-handed bat, I'd have to think hard about that one.
Why in the world would the Cardinals do that deal?

Maybe Quentin and Sale would spark their interest, but they do not want to take on Buehrle's $14M plus Quentin's full salary for a young cheap productive player that would be in demand by many other teams. Remember, they are going to need to come up with a boatload of money to keep Pujols around.

MtGrnwdSoxFan
10-30-2010, 06:08 PM
Why in the world would the Cardinals do that deal?

Maybe Quentin and Sale would spark their interest, but they do not want to take on Buehrle's $14M plus Quentin's full salary for a young cheap productive player that would be in demand by many other teams. Remember, they are going to need to come up with a boatload of money to keep Pujols around.

The Cardinals won't care if they have to sell off half of Busch Stadium and the Gateway Arch. They're signing Pujols, no matter what he demands.

And what if one of Pujols' demands would be trading Rasmus, since Pujols doesn't want him on the team due to Rasmus' trade demand? I'm not saying that the Sox' offer would be certain to land him, but I think the Cardinals would definitely give it some thought. Buehrle has publicly said he'd love to pitch for St. Louis, and if the Sox can pitch in some dough to offset his contract somewhat (since it doesn't look like they're going to do squat in FA), I highly doubt that would interfere with the Cards signing Pujols.

It's not like Buehrle is a bad pitcher, either. He might even boost his numbers going to the NL.

cards press box
10-31-2010, 12:57 AM
Wow, does this mean that this crazy (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=2631221#post2631221) offseason prediction might actually come true? If the Sox could get Colby Rasmus, that would be great. Rasmus could very well be the power hitting lefty outfielder that the Sox have sought for a very long time.

On a side note, I caught a lot of grief (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=123485&page=4) for suggesting that a Carlos Quentin/Adrian Gonzalez deal could make sense for both the Sox and Padres this offseason. I have to say that I would rather see the Sox get 4+ years of Rasmus (at least 4 years and maybe more if they signed him long term) than one year of Gonzalez. Only one thing to say about that: WEEEE! (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=123622)

soltrain21
10-31-2010, 01:18 AM
Wow, does this mean that this crazy (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=2631221#post2631221) offseason prediction might actually come true? If the Sox could get Colby Rasmus, that would be great. Rasmus could very well be the power hitting lefty outfielder that the Sox have sought for a very long time.

On a side note, I caught a lot of grief (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=123485&page=4) for suggesting that a Carlos Quentin/Adrian Gonzalez deal could make sense for both the Sox and Padres this offseason. I have to say that I would rather see the Sox get 4+ years of Rasmus (at least 4 years and maybe more if they signed him long term) than one year of Gonzalez. Only one thing to say about that: WEEEE! (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=123622)

The grief was deserved. And you act as if the Cards would take a straight up deal for Rasmus/TCQ. No way that happens. Sox would be giving other pieces. Hell, a Cardinals front office guy said we'd have to do better than that deal.

And your Mark for closer idea? Yeah, still terrible.

cards press box
10-31-2010, 01:30 AM
The grief was deserved. And you act as if the Cards would take a straight up deal for Rasmus/TCQ. No way that happens. Sox would be giving other pieces. Hell, a Cardinals front office guy said we'd have to do better than that deal.

And your Mark for closer idea? Yeah, still terrible.

Wait a second -- two points on this Cardinals rumor. (1) I never said that the Cards would do a Quentin/Rasmus deal straight up. (2) It was the press (http://www.sportingnews.com/mlb/story/2010-10-30/white-sox-eyeing-cardinals-center-fielder-colby-rasmus) that reported that those two players would be the centerpiece of the proposed deal.

As for Mark Buehrle becoming the closer, I was simply trying to think outside the box for a solution to the obvious problem of Buehrle wearing down every season and not pitching effectively in August and September. I previously wrote a post (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=2628704#post2628704) about this problem. I haven't heard any other proposed solutions and I simply thought that if Jenks was non-tendered and the Sox found themselves with 6 or 7 starters (Peavy, Buehrle, Danks, Floyd, E. Jackson, F. Garcia and Sale), then moving Buehrle to closer is a potentially elegant solution that they should consider. Sorry for offending the sensibilities of virtually all of North America.

fox23
10-31-2010, 02:39 AM
Sorry for offending the sensibilities of virtually all of North America.

At least you understand your folly now.

JermaineDye05
10-31-2010, 02:16 PM
Well, if the Sox wind up with Rasmus, I guess that pretty much means we won't be getting Pujols. Somehow I figured that wasn't going to happen anyways.

russ99
10-31-2010, 02:26 PM
The Cardinals won't care if they have to sell off half of Busch Stadium and the Gateway Arch. They're signing Pujols, no matter what he demands.

And what if one of Pujols' demands would be trading Rasmus, since Pujols doesn't want him on the team due to Rasmus' trade demand? I'm not saying that the Sox' offer would be certain to land him, but I think the Cardinals would definitely give it some thought. Buehrle has publicly said he'd love to pitch for St. Louis, and if the Sox can pitch in some dough to offset his contract somewhat (since it doesn't look like they're going to do squat in FA), I highly doubt that would interfere with the Cards signing Pujols.

It's not like Buehrle is a bad pitcher, either. He might even boost his numbers going to the NL.

I think this deal is wishful. Wishful that the Cards will take our players for a potential impact player in Rasmus, and wishful that St. Louis would want 2 years of Buerhle at $14.5 without the Sox throwing in considerable salary.

Then there's the issue of if Peavy is healthy and is Sale ready to start right away, which are big question marks.

I also doubt the Sox can get anything of real value for Quentin at this point, due to his salary, his poor "Cust-like" 2010 numbers, and his constant injury and headcase status. May be better to keep him for another year at DH than sell low just to deal him.

pearso66
10-31-2010, 02:58 PM
I think the only way the Sox get Rasmus is to start with Quentin and one of the 3 pitchers, Floyd/Danks/Jackson. I doubt the Sox would give up Danks, and I think the Cards would rather have Floyd than Jackson given price and how Jackson fared in the NL last season. Then the Sox would have to give up probably 1 more prospect, and I don't know who that would be. I don't think the Sox would give up Danks straight up for Rasmus but I have a feeling that's where the Cardinals start.

kjhanson
10-31-2010, 02:59 PM
The hard-on that some people here have for Rasmus is overwhelmingly perplexing.

I understand he's a 24 year-old LH bat who had an .859 OPS last year. That's all good. What's not good, and in fact, is downright disgusting, is him striking out in 32% of at-bats! It's one thing if he's driving in 100 runs and hitting 30 homers, but 23/66 on the power numbers is embarrassing for someone who strikes out that much. With RISP, he struck out 41% of at-bats. That's Mark Reynolds territory. And his RISP, 2 outs? How about .213 with 29 Ks in 61 ABs. Yes, he struck out every other time, on average, when his team needed him to drive in a big run. And if you like your late and close stats, he hit .203 with a gaudy .328 SLG%.

JermaineDye05
10-31-2010, 03:05 PM
The hard-on that some people here have for Rasmus is overwhelmingly perplexing.

I understand he's a 24 year-old LH bat who had an .859 OPS last year. That's all good. What's not good, and in fact, is downright disgusting, is him striking out in 32% of at-bats! It's one thing if he's driving in 100 runs and hitting 30 homers, but 23/66 on the power numbers is embarrassing for someone who strikes out that much. With RISP, he struck out 41% of at-bats. That's Mark Reynolds territory. And his RISP, 2 outs? How about .213 with 29 Ks in 61 ABs. Yes, he struck out every other time, on average, when his team needed him to drive in a big run. And if you like your late and close stats, he hit .203 with a gaudy .328 SLG%.

I'll put this out there. Though it doesn't really address your strikeout concerns, it's certainly worth noting.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/parkfactor

He'd be moving from Busch to US Cellular. That could certainly boost those power numbers.

Plus, it doesn't hurt that he's outstanding in the outfield. Our outfield defense gets a major boost if he joins the equation. I mean if you put him and Rios together, not too many balls are going to be falling. Also, if Kenny were somehow able to sign Crawford too . . . wow. However, I don't know what happens to Pierre then. I guess he would become another expensive bench guy or is moved for bullpen help. I think it's one or the other for the Sox with regards to Rasmus and Crawford. I doubt they get both. Getting one will be hard enough.

Frater Perdurabo
10-31-2010, 04:36 PM
I'll put this out there. Though it doesn't really address your strikeout concerns, it's certainly worth noting.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/parkfactor

He'd be moving from Busch to US Cellular. That could certainly boost those power numbers.

Plus, it doesn't hurt that he's outstanding in the outfield. Our outfield defense gets a major boost if he joins the equation. I mean if you put him and Rios together, not too many balls are going to be falling. Also, if Kenny were somehow able to sign Crawford too . . . wow. However, I don't know what happens to Pierre then. I guess he would become another expensive bench guy or is moved for bullpen help. I think it's one or the other for the Sox with regards to Rasmus and Crawford. I doubt they get both. Getting one will be hard enough.

It's almost scary how different the team would be if the Sox added Rasmus and Crawford and lost Quentin. You almost have to have Pierre DH and be the fourth OF. Also, adding Crawford almost guarantees you can't afford to re-sign Paulie, so are you comfortable with Viciedo at first and as your primary RH power threat? Or do you start Teahen at first?

DirtySox
10-31-2010, 04:44 PM
I'll put this out there. Though it doesn't really address your strikeout concerns, it's certainly worth noting.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/parkfactor

He'd be moving from Busch to US Cellular. That could certainly boost those power numbers.

Plus, it doesn't hurt that he's outstanding in the outfield. Our outfield defense gets a major boost if he joins the equation. I mean if you put him and Rios together, not too many balls are going to be falling. Also, if Kenny were somehow able to sign Crawford too . . . wow. However, I don't know what happens to Pierre then. I guess he would become another expensive bench guy or is moved for bullpen help. I think it's one or the other for the Sox with regards to Rasmus and Crawford. I doubt they get both. Getting one will be hard enough.

Crawford is a pipe-dream. Rasmus could happen though.

kobo
10-31-2010, 04:55 PM
I think this deal is wishful. Wishful that the Cards will take our players for a potential impact player in Rasmus, and wishful that St. Louis would want 2 years of Buerhle at $14.5 without the Sox throwing in considerable salary.

Then there's the issue of if Peavy is healthy and is Sale ready to start right away, which are big question marks.

I also doubt the Sox can get anything of real value for Quentin at this point, due to his salary, his poor "Cust-like" 2010 numbers, and his constant injury and headcase status. May be better to keep him for another year at DH than sell low just to deal him.
If the Sox trade Buehrle the trade has to be approved by Buehrle as he has 10 and 5 rights. And the window for the option year to kick in if traded is gone. I posted about this a couple months ago in another thread. That 5th year was only if he was traded by July 15 of this year. It no longer applies.

http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2005/01/chicago-white-sox.html

russ99
11-01-2010, 08:52 AM
If the Sox trade Buehrle the trade has to be approved by Buehrle as he has 10 and 5 rights. And the window for the option year to kick in if traded is gone. I posted about this a couple months ago in another thread. That 5th year was only if he was traded by July 15 of this year. It no longer applies.

http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2005/01/chicago-white-sox.html

Really... That's interesting, I didn't know that clause expired.

As for the 10-5 rights, It's pretty safe to assume Mark would approve a deal to St. Louis, which was his favorite team growing up. He's quoted he wanted to play there if he wasn't with the Sox.

Vestigio
11-01-2010, 09:23 AM
Crawford is a pipe-dream. Rasmus could happen though.

This is why I'd want the Sox to get a deal done with the Cards before Crawford chooses to sign with a team. Rasmus may be a plan B or plan C for some teams who failed in the Crawford sweepstakes. The sooner the Sox make the deal, the better.

dickallen15
11-01-2010, 09:51 AM
Really... That's interesting, I didn't know that clause expired.

As for the 10-5 rights, It's pretty safe to assume Mark would approve a deal to St. Louis, which was his favorite team growing up. He's quoted he wanted to play there if he wasn't with the Sox.
Its also safe to assume a team trying to make room for a huge Pujols extension isn't going to want Buehrle's $15 million a year salary for a cheap young player. Rasmus isn't going to be a White Sox unless you get Beckham involved.

dickallen15
11-01-2010, 09:52 AM
This is why I'd want the Sox to get a deal done with the Cards before Crawford chooses to sign with a team. Rasmus may be a plan B or plan C for some teams who failed in the Crawford sweepstakes. The sooner the Sox make the deal, the better.

Rasmus to the Sox is almost as slim as the chances the Cubs ever need a trophy case.

Balfanman
11-01-2010, 10:54 AM
Its also safe to assume a team trying to make room for a huge Pujols extension isn't going to want Buehrle's $15 million a year salary for a cheap young player. Rasmus isn't going to be a White Sox unless you get Beckham involved.

But after 1 year of Buehrle, his contract expires. The Cardinals (for example) could then sign him to a cheaper deal and then have money for Pujols before his extention would kick in.

I don't know if a deal like this is going to happen or not, but I would not say that the chances are slim.

cards press box
11-01-2010, 05:16 PM
Its also safe to assume a team trying to make room for a huge Pujols extension isn't going to want Buehrle's $15 million a year salary for a cheap young player. Rasmus isn't going to be a White Sox unless you get Beckham involved.

The Sox are not going to deal Gordon Beckham. As for Rasmus, the Cardinals only deal him if they are convinced that he cannot co-exist with Tony LaRussa. I know that the Cardinals have said that everyone has "buried the hatchet" but, come on, what do you expect them to say? They are not going to come out and admit that the two guys despise each other, are they?

If the Cards believe that they have to deal Rasmus, then they will. The Sox are a logical trade partner but they are not going to go beyond Carlos Quentin and maybe a low level prospect.

DirtySox
11-01-2010, 06:11 PM
If the Cards believe that they have to deal Rasmus, then they will. The Sox are a logical trade partner but they are not going to go beyond Carlos Quentin and maybe a low level prospect.

What?

Carlos Quentin is almost a non tender candidate. He will assuredly be one after next season if he posts up his similar lackluster numbers while playing terribly awful defense again.

Rasmus for Quentin isn't even close to a fair trade. It's a laughably one-sided proposal and is being treated as such by almost everyone. Many other teams will be calling if Rasmus is indeed on the table, and I guarantee St. Louis can do better then Carlos Quentin and a throw-in prospect.

Tragg
11-01-2010, 06:15 PM
Rasmus to the Sox is almost as slim as the chances the Cubs ever need a trophy case.
Is it really that slim? Aren't the redbirds a little annoyed at him?
I think the redbirds are looking to trade him. And Williams has been known to pile it on to get his man.

Ranger
11-01-2010, 06:34 PM
The hard-on that some people here have for Rasmus is overwhelmingly perplexing.

I understand he's a 24 year-old LH bat who had an .859 OPS last year. That's all good. What's not good, and in fact, is downright disgusting, is him striking out in 32% of at-bats! It's one thing if he's driving in 100 runs and hitting 30 homers, but 23/66 on the power numbers is embarrassing for someone who strikes out that much. With RISP, he struck out 41% of at-bats. That's Mark Reynolds territory. And his RISP, 2 outs? How about .213 with 29 Ks in 61 ABs. Yes, he struck out every other time, on average, when his team needed him to drive in a big run. And if you like your late and close stats, he hit .203 with a gaudy .328 SLG%.

He's also played just 2 seasons of MLB. Let's cut the kid some slack and allow some room for growth. But since we're using a small sample size, his OBP was .361 last year. The type of outs you make are irrelevant if you're otherwise getting on base at a good percentage.

cards press box
11-01-2010, 06:37 PM
Many other teams will be calling if Rasmus is indeed on the table, and I guarantee St. Louis can do better then Carlos Quentin and a throw-in prospect.

Maybe so but St. Louis did scout Quentin at the end of last year. Who knows, they may believe he has more upside than many posters at WSI do today. Don't forget, 2008 was only two years ago.

DirtySox
11-01-2010, 06:38 PM
Maybe so but St. Louis did scout Quentin at the end of last year. Who knows, they may believe he has more upside than many posters at WSI do today. Don't forget, 2008 was only two years ago.

I wouldn't discount Carlos being in the deal, but there clearly would have to be more to it.

Daver
11-01-2010, 06:47 PM
He's also played just 2 seasons of MLB. Let's cut the kid some slack and allow some room for growth. But since we're using a small sample size, his OBP was .361 last year. The type of outs you make are irrelevant if you're otherwise getting on base at a good percentage.

On base percentage is a stat that lies more than most, because it is used as a measure of productivity when it does not actually measure it, a walk is not as good as a hit in many scenarios.

BringHomeDaBacon
11-01-2010, 07:40 PM
On base percentage is a stat that lies more than most, because it is used as a measure of productivity when it does not actually measure it, a walk is not as good as a hit in many scenarios.

Nothing about the stat implies that a walk is good as a hit. Your statement is like saying batting average is a stat that lies because a single is not as good as a homerun. If you think either is lying it's because you dont understand what it's telling you.

Daver
11-01-2010, 07:56 PM
Nothing about the stat implies that a walk is good as a hit. Your statement is like saying batting average is a stat that lies because a single is not as good as a homerun. If you think either is lying it's because you dont understand what it's telling you.

I understand that you couldn't understand my post, is there anything else you would like to enlighten me on?

JermaineDye05
11-01-2010, 10:26 PM
Let the offseason begin. I hope KW does like he did last season and not waste time starting the offseason. Let's just hope he acquires someone a bit better than Mark Teahen.

MtGrnwdSoxFan
11-01-2010, 10:46 PM
Let the offseason begin. I hope KW does like he did last season and not waste time starting the offseason. Let's just hope he acquires someone a bit better than Mark Teahen.

We could sign Darren Oliver's used jockstrap from 1993, and I'd consider that a better signing than Mark Teahen.

In other words, Kenny would REALLY have to try to make a boneheaded signing to make the Teahen signing seem good.

Carolina Kenny
11-02-2010, 09:16 AM
Let the offseason begin. I hope KW does like he did last season and not waste time starting the offseason. Let's just hope he acquires someone a bit better than Mark Teahen.

I hate Mark Teahen and always will. Imagine if we had still had Uribe last year playing third base.

russ99
11-02-2010, 10:07 AM
I hate Mark Teahen and always will. Imagine if we had still had Uribe last year playing third base.

Uribe - .248/.310./440 (vs. NL pitching)

Teahen - .258/.327/.382 (vs. AL pitching)

Really how much difference is there at the plate? And for the record, both had $3,250,000 salaries after the Royals cash sent in the trade is applied.

Not saying that Teahan had a good year by any means, but can we drop all this about how much various Sox players suck until the 2011 roster is settled?

Just saying - 2010 is over, and this constant negativity will get us nowhere.

dickallen15
11-02-2010, 10:13 AM
Uribe - .248/.310./440 (vs. NL pitching)

Teahen - .258/.327/.382 (vs. AL pitching)

Really how much difference is there at the plate? And for the record, both had $3,250,000 salaries after the Royals cash sent in the trade is applied.

Not saying that Teahan had a good year by any means, but can we drop all this about how much various Sox players suck until the 2011 roster is settled?

Just saying - 2010 is over, and this constant negativity will get us nowhere.

I guess you put zero value in defense.

DirtySox
11-02-2010, 10:44 AM
I guess you put zero value in defense.

This.

The Teahen trade was fine, but the extension was horrible. He sucks and it was an awful deal. The negativity can continue as it is warranted in this case.

Carolina Kenny
11-02-2010, 11:11 AM
This.

The Teahen trade was fine, but the extension was horrible. He sucks and it was an awful deal. The negativity can continue as it is warranted in this case.

Uribe is one of the finest defensive 3rd baseman in MLB. He can still play SS and 2nd as well. He has also now been on (2) World Series Winners.
Teahen spent most of his career in last place with the Royals.
He has no acceptable defensive position.

ie: Teahen is a waste

JermaineDye05
11-02-2010, 11:19 AM
Uribe is one of the finest defensive 3rd baseman in MLB. He can still play SS and 2nd as well. He has also now been on (2) World Series Winners.
Teahen spent most of his career in last place with the Royals.
He has no acceptable defensive position.

ie: Teahen is a waste

Let's not lose our heads now. He's good and certainly better than Teahen, but he's no David Wright/Scott Rolen/Adrian Beltre down there.

Cap
11-02-2010, 03:27 PM
From what I heard is its going to take someone like Danks or Floyd to finish the deal along with Quentin. What do you all think about that? It scares me. I would hate seeing Quentin and Danks out in the NL dominating the league while we search for a DH and pitching.

If it were just Quentin for Rasmus, I'd take it for sure, and maybe a prospect or two going the Cards way. It's not like we have many to give away though.

JermaineDye05
11-02-2010, 03:32 PM
From what I heard is its going to take someone like Danks or Floyd to finish the deal along with Quentin. What do you all think about that? It scares me. I would hate seeing Quentin and Danks out in the NL dominating the league while we search for a DH and pitching.

If it were just Quentin for Rasmus, I'd take it for sure, and maybe a prospect or two going the Cards way. It's not like we have many to give away though.

Floyd/Quentin? I'd do it.

Cap
11-02-2010, 03:41 PM
Floyd/Quentin? I'd do it.Really? I thought it was just Cards fans over-hyping Rasmus a little bit. I just don't believe the Sox pitching is as deep as a lot of people think. If someone could guarantee me Freddy or Sale could step up, I would probably reconsider.

Like KW always says he is, I'm in win now mode, and I would rather dominate the trade than make it even. :redface:
Kind of like what free agency is, except you lose somebody.

MtGrnwdSoxFan
11-02-2010, 04:03 PM
Floyd/Quentin? I'd do that deal yesterday. Floyd looks to be breaking down a bit, and I'm not sure how he'll hold up next year.

Danks/Quentin? Eh....I'm not sure I'm THAT high on Rasmus.

BringHomeDaBacon
11-02-2010, 04:53 PM
Uribe is one of the finest defensive 3rd baseman in MLB. He can still play SS and 2nd as well. He has also now been on (2) World Series Winners.
Teahen spent most of his career in last place with the Royals.
He has no acceptable defensive position.

ie: Teahen is a waste

Correction: "He has also now been AN EVERYDAY PLAYER for (2) World Series Winners."

The Giants paid him $1 million in 2009 and $3.25 mil in 2010 on one year contracts. He's a free agent again. Meanwhile, KW saw fit to lock up Mark Teahen for $3.75 in 2010, $4.75 in 2011, and $5.5 in 2012.

KMcMahon817
11-03-2010, 09:17 AM
Floyd/Quentin? I'd do that deal yesterday. Floyd looks to be breaking down a bit, and I'm not sure how he'll hold up next year.

Danks/Quentin? Eh....I'm not sure I'm THAT high on Rasmus.

Woah, this is getting out of hand.

I am ALL IN for Rasmus, but at the price of Quentin AND Floyd? WOW! No thanks!!! That is overpaying ridiulously. I am no GM, but I think a Carlos-Rasmus trade would be fair, but throwing a top 30 pitcher in the league in there too, WAY, WAY, WAY too much for a kid who has had one good season. Which by the way was still not as productive as Carlos' season in a "bad year".

DirtySox
11-03-2010, 09:58 AM
Woah, this is getting out of hand.

I am ALL IN for Rasmus, but at the price of Quentin AND Floyd? WOW! No thanks!!! That is overpaying ridiulously. I am no GM, but I think a Carlos-Rasmus trade would be fair, but throwing a top 30 pitcher in the league in there too, WAY, WAY, WAY too much for a kid who has had one good season. Which by the way was still not as productive as Carlos' season in a "bad year".

Carlos for Rasmus isn't even close to fair. Why on earth would the Cardinals want a headcase of a player who is getting expensive, has had one good season, and is one of the worst OF in baseball? Rasmus has oodles of surplus value. Carlos has none. The notion that Quentin straight up for Rasmus is reasonable is preposterous.

Cap
11-03-2010, 11:00 AM
Carlos for Rasmus isn't even close to fair. Why on earth would the Cardinals want a headcase of a player who is getting expensive, has had one good season, and is one of the worst OF in baseball? Rasmus has oodles of surplus value. Carlos has none. The notion that Quentin straight up for Rasmus is reasonable is preposterous.I think he's worth much more to the Sox just because they can have a DH. I don't know if they plan on ever letting him DH, but he is a lot more valuable to an AL them than any NL team. I think that's why some think adding one of our starting pitchers would be too much, at least that's my reasoning. Floyd showed signs of being something great last year, and wasn't something bothering him towards the end of the season?

It would definitely take more than just Carlos, but I never like the idea of giving up anyone good. You think they'd want Teahen and Linebrink? :P

DirtySox
11-03-2010, 11:11 AM
I think he's worth much more to the Sox just because they can have a DH. I don't know if they plan on ever letting him DH, but he is a lot more valuable to an AL them than any NL team. I think that's why some think adding one of our starting pitchers would be too much... at least that's my reasoning.

It would definitely take more than just Carlos, but I never like the idea of giving up anyone good. You think they'd want Teahen and Linebrink? :P

No disagreements here.

I also think that some people are discounting the fact that Rasmus is highly desirable to almost every team out there. The White Sox aren't going to be the only team inquiring on Colby.

khan
11-03-2010, 11:38 AM
Floyd/Quentin? I'd do that deal yesterday. Floyd looks to be breaking down a bit, and I'm not sure how he'll hold up next year.

Danks/Quentin? Eh....I'm not sure I'm THAT high on Rasmus.
There is some evidence to support the bolded part:

Floyd in the 1st half of 2010:
111.1IP; 111H; 33BB; 1.293WHIP; 90K; 7.276K/9IP

Floyd in the 2nd half of 2010:
76.0IP; 88H; 25BB; 1.487WHIP; 61K; 7.224K/9IP


In 2010, his numbers DEFINITELY worsened in the 2nd half of the season. Moreover, the trend line in his last 3 seasons might support your view as well:

2008: 206.1IP; 1.260WHIP; 6.325K/9IP
2009: 193.0IP; 1.228WHIP; 7.601K/9IP
2010: 187.1IP; 1.372WHIP; 7.225K/9IP


Woah, this is getting out of hand.

I am ALL IN for Rasmus, but at the price of Quentin AND Floyd? WOW! No thanks!!! That is overpaying ridiulously. I am no GM, but I think a Carlos-Rasmus trade would be fair, but throwing a top 30 pitcher in the league in there too, WAY, WAY, WAY too much for a kid who has had one good season. Which by the way was still not as productive as Carlos' season in a "bad year".
I kind of doubt that Floyd would be considered to be a top 30 pitcher in the league. Can you show some evidence to compel us to agree with this view?

And again, let's set aside our affinity for our favorite players for a moment, and really look at what they do on the field, not who they are. I've gotten tired of just blindly accepting KW's/the media's lazy view that this pitching staff is "one of the best in the league," when the numbers/performances/outcomes suggest otherwise.

kjhanson
11-03-2010, 12:26 PM
He's also played just 2 seasons of MLB. Let's cut the kid some slack and allow some room for growth. But since we're using a small sample size, his OBP was .361 last year. The type of outs you make are irrelevant if you're otherwise getting on base at a good percentage.

Typically, growth implies some type of upward trajectory. It does not mean striking out 20% of ABs your rookie year and then striking out 32% of ABs your second year. That is actually the opposite growth. And the sample sizes are plenty ample to make that comparison - and to assess his productivity at this level - he's had two years of 450+ ABs.

As far as your final statement, that is another way of saying "It's OK if you strikeout as long as you walk". You're missing one key element of that statement. It should go, "It's OK if you strikeout as long as you walk AND you drive in a lot of runs". If you're only going to drive in 118 runs in 938 ABs, your outs better be of the "in-play" variety. The phrase "all or nothing" in this instance is better worded "something OK or nothing".

Foulke You
11-03-2010, 03:22 PM
There is some evidence to support the bolded part:

Floyd in the 1st half of 2010:
111.1IP; 111H; 33BB; 1.293WHIP; 90K; 7.276K/9IP

Floyd in the 2nd half of 2010:
76.0IP; 88H; 25BB; 1.487WHIP; 61K; 7.224K/9IP


In 2010, his numbers DEFINITELY worsened in the 2nd half of the season. Moreover, the trend line in his last 3 seasons might support your view as well:

2008: 206.1IP; 1.260WHIP; 6.325K/9IP
2009: 193.0IP; 1.228WHIP; 7.601K/9IP
2010: 187.1IP; 1.372WHIP; 7.225K/9IP

Floyd's problem has always been putting together a consistent season. Gavin is just all over the place the last few years and the numbers seem to support that. Gavin's pattern is that he comes out of the gate slow in April, pitches great during the mid Summer, then starts to break down again in August and ends up in September with nagging injuries. I'm not sure if his lack of consistency is a downward trend, however, I won't dismiss that as a possibility given his nagging September injuries the last few years. I believe Gavin's biggest issue has always been maintaining control of that 12-6 curve ball which has always been his bread and butter. When he is getting it over, he is nasty.

KMcMahon817
11-03-2010, 08:46 PM
Carlos for Rasmus isn't even close to fair. Why on earth would the Cardinals want a headcase of a player who is getting expensive, has had one good season, and is one of the worst OF in baseball? Rasmus has oodles of surplus value. Carlos has none. The notion that Quentin straight up for Rasmus is reasonable is preposterous.

Don't get me wrong, I am just as frustrated with Carlos' production the last two years as the next guy. But, the guy has hit just under 50 home runs since 2008, when he was a freak injury away from being the AL MVP. I realize that Carlos has a screw loose, or really too tight, but I am a firm believer that he has more value than many here seem to think. I know he isn't a good fielder, but he is passable.

I don't think the Cards would trade Rasmus straight up for Carlos either. Why would they? But Rasmus' trade value has to be slightly depressed and maybe Carlos would be the best offer for immediate production that the Cards get. And if not, heck, I'd be willing to throw in Escobar. He is one prospect that probably isn't going to be seeing a starting role with the SOX in the next two years.

And to say that Carlos has no "surplus value" is silly. The guy has 40 hr/100 rbi potential easy if he stays healthy, and stays away from his "in between" bug that he seems to catch every so often. That is two big ifs, but we've all seen Carlos do it before. He has value, believe it or not.

Either way, trading Carlos and Floyd for Rasmus is preposterous.

KMcMahon817
11-03-2010, 08:57 PM
I kind of doubt that Floyd would be considered to be a top 30 pitcher in the league. Can you show some evidence to compel us to agree with this view?

And again, let's set aside our affinity for our favorite players for a moment, and really look at what they do on the field, not who they are. I've gotten tired of just blindly accepting KW's/the media's lazy view that this pitching staff is "one of the best in the league," when the numbers/performances/outcomes suggest otherwise.

First of all, since does one need to have footnotes to sources when they post in a rumor thread? It is exactly that, a small rumor that we are all discussing. I personally like the pitching staff and I think that losing Peavy last year really hurt the group as a whole. The addition of Jackson due to the loss of Peavy only improves the rotation for next year.

I really believed that the staff in the top three in baseball to start the year. I wouldn't say I will jump in the boat again this offseason, but I can assure that 20 or more teams would take the SOX staff over theirs.

As for Floyd, saying he is a top 30 pitcher may be a bit aggressive after his finish to last season. But Floyd in the top 50 is far from crazy talk. And you love your sources, so here's one: http://fantasybaseball.fanhouse.com/2010/02/09/fantasy-baseball-2010-starting-pitcher-rankings-pre-camp-versio/ .The rankings are prior to the 2010 season, but this particular source has Floyd ranked as the 39th best pitcher in the league. :dtroll:

soltrain21
11-03-2010, 09:12 PM
First of all, since does one need to have footnotes to sources when they post in a rumor thread? It is exactly that, a small rumor that we are all discussing. I personally like the pitching staff and I think that losing Peavy last year really hurt the group as a whole. The addition of Jackson due to the loss of Peavy only improves the rotation for next year.

I really believed that the staff in the top three in baseball to start the year. I wouldn't say I will jump in the boat again this offseason, but I can assure that 20 or more teams would take the SOX staff over theirs.

As for Floyd, saying he is a top 30 pitcher may be a bit aggressive after his finish to last season. But Floyd in the top 50 is far from crazy talk. And you love your sources, so here's one: http://fantasybaseball.fanhouse.com/2010/02/09/fantasy-baseball-2010-starting-pitcher-rankings-pre-camp-versio/ .The rankings are prior to the 2010 season, but this particular source has Floyd ranked as the 39th best pitcher in the league. :dtroll:

Fantasy baseball? Cmon.

KMcMahon817
11-03-2010, 11:31 PM
Fantasy baseball? Cmon.

It was obviously a joke with the "do I really need sources" comment and dancing chewbaca...

Dibbs
11-03-2010, 11:59 PM
People on here talking about getting Rasmus for Quentin would be equivalent to a Cardinals board talking about getting Beckham for Ryan Ludwick in 2009. It is not going to happen. I'm sure they might consider Floyd and Quentin, but I wouldn't want the Sox to do that.

russ99
11-04-2010, 12:24 PM
Don't get me wrong, I am just as frustrated with Carlos' production the last two years as the next guy. But, the guy has hit just under 50 home runs since 2008, when he was a freak injury away from being the AL MVP. I realize that Carlos has a screw loose, or really too tight, but I am a firm believer that he has more value than many here seem to think. I know he isn't a good fielder, but he is passable.

And to say that Carlos has no "surplus value" is silly. The guy has 40 hr/100 rbi potential easy if he stays healthy, and stays away from his "in between" bug that he seems to catch every so often. That is two big ifs, but we've all seen Carlos do it before. He has value, believe it or not.


Those are pretty big ifs, and the constant seasonal performance from Carlos and the wishful performance are getting farther apart every season.

In 2010 Quentin had Jack Cust numbers, not MVP numbers. Nobody wants to give away a potential MVP, but at some point it has to be about what can help the team this year and not about potential that only can be realized if everything works out perfectly.

But if the Sox can sign him and keep his salary low prior to arbitration, I'm all for bringing back Carlos next year, but IMO he should be our DH if he can mentally handle it, as he'd be a bigger help to the team and have a better chance to put together a healthy season by not playing the field every day.

khan
11-05-2010, 12:49 PM
First of all, since does one need to have footnotes to sources when they post in a rumor thread? It is exactly that, a small rumor that we are all discussing. I personally like the pitching staff and I think that losing Peavy last year really hurt the group as a whole. The addition of Jackson due to the loss of Peavy only improves the rotation for next year.
I agree with some of this, but disagree with the stupid idea of adding $8.5M to an already-bloated group of salaries to the starting rotation.


I also really believed that the staff in the top three in baseball to start the year. I wouldn't say I will jump in the boat again this offseason, but I can assure that 20 or more teams would take the SOX staff over theirs.
I too believed the hype before the season, but in looking at the numbers, believe me, [to coin a phrase] I won't be fooled again.

Having said that, with a lack of a closer at this point,
perhaps a lack of a RHP setup man [and don't point to Santos' 1.5 WHIP and overrate him],
perhaps a lack of a true ACE if Peavy is unavailable,
a lack of a LH setup man if Thornton becomes the closer,
a lack of a long man in the bullpen,
a declining and expensive Mark Buehrle,
and inconsistent pitchers in Floyd and Jackson,

I'm not too sure that "20 teams would take the SOX's pitching staff" in totality. Sure, there are things to really like, but there are just as many things to dislike.


As for Floyd, saying he is a top 30 pitcher may be a bit aggressive after his finish to last season.
Thank you for agreeing with me.

But Floyd in the top 50 is far from crazy talk.
Who said anything about "top 50?"

And you love your sources, so here's one: http://fantasybaseball.fanhouse.com/2010/02/09/fantasy-baseball-2010-starting-pitcher-rankings-pre-camp-versio/ .The rankings are prior to the 2010 season, but this particular source has Floyd ranked as the 39th best pitcher in the league. :dtroll:


Trolling? Please. Spare your fanboy view of Floyd, and look at the numbers. All I asked is if you could support your opinion about Gavin Floyd, and you couldn't even do that.

Your source is faulted [as you admitted], in that it does NOT include his mediocre 2010 season, with the especially-craptacular 2nd half. And at that, he WASN'T ranked among the "top 30 pitchers in the league," as you had proclaimed, BEFORE the 2010 season.

KMcMahon817
11-05-2010, 01:03 PM
I agree with some of this, but disagree with the stupid idea of adding $8.5M to an already-bloated group of salaries to the starting rotation.



I too believed the hype before the season, but in looking at the numbers, believe me, [to coin a phrase] I won't be fooled again.

Having said that, with a lack of a closer at this point,
perhaps a lack of a RHP setup man [and don't point to Santos' 1.5 WHIP and overrate him],
perhaps a lack of a true ACE if Peavy is unavailable,
a lack of a LH setup man if Thornton becomes the closer,
a lack of a long man in the bullpen,
a declining and expensive Mark Buehrle,
and inconsistent pitchers in Floyd and Jackson,

I'm not too sure that "20 teams would take the SOX's pitching staff" in totality. Sure, there are things to really like, but there are just as many things to dislike.



Thank you for agreeing with me.


Who said anything about "top 50?"




Trolling? Please. Spare your fanboy view of Floyd, and look at the numbers. All I asked is if you could support your opinion about Gavin Floyd, and you couldn't even do that.

Your source is faulted [as you admitted], in that it does NOT include his mediocre 2010 season, with the especially-craptacular 2nd half. And at that, he WASN'T ranked among the "top 30 pitchers in the league," as you had proclaimed, BEFORE the 2010 season.

You crack me up. I hardly have a "fanboy" view of Floyd. I like Floyd but I don't love him. Everything doesn't have to be an argument man; I think Floyd is a very solid middle of the rotation starter, you may not, fine. I don't need to cite sources to your approval in a rumor thread. Get over yourself.

BringHomeDaBacon
11-05-2010, 01:15 PM
You crack me up. I hardly have a "fanboy" view of Floyd. I like Floyd but I don't love him. Everything doesn't have to be an argument man; I think Floyd is a very solid middle of the rotation starter, you may not, fine. I don't need to cite sources to your approval in a rumor thread. Get over yourself.

You did refer to Floyd as a top 30 starter which by definition would classify him as more than a middle of the rotation starter. If you think he's top 30 then you sir, are passing along a fanboy view. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

KMcMahon817
11-05-2010, 01:18 PM
You did refer to Floyd as a top 30 starter which by definition would classify him as more than a middle of the rotation starter. If you think he's top 30 then you sir, are passing along a fanboy view. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Fair enough. I have clearly taken back my top 30 statement. That was a split second ranking; top 50 is more accurate and more how I really feel.

khan
11-05-2010, 01:30 PM
You crack me up. I hardly have a "fanboy" view of Floyd. I like Floyd but I don't love him. Everything doesn't have to be an argument man; I think Floyd is a very solid middle of the rotation starter, you may not, fine. I don't need to cite sources to your approval in a rumor thread. Get over yourself.
Actually, I very politely asked you to support your view. In fact, as I re-read my original post, I was open to agreeing with you, if you could "show some evidence to compel us to agree with this view."

[Note that this quotation comes directly from my original post.]


Then, YOU [not me] decided that it was an "argument," and that somehow, me asking you to support your view is trolling.


Since you could not support your view, AND you fail to understand what is "an argument" and what is "a troll," I suggest that you should be the one to "get over yourself."

KMcMahon817
11-05-2010, 01:41 PM
Actually, I very politely asked you to support your view. In fact, as I re-read my original post, I was open to agreeing with you, if you could "show some evidence to compel us to agree with this view."

[Note that this quotation comes directly from my original post.]


Then, YOU [not me] decided that it was an "argument," and that somehow, me asking you to support your view is trolling.


Since you could not support your view, AND you fail to understand what is "an argument" and what is "a troll," I suggest that you should be the one to "get over yourself."

It was an opinion. I don't need to show you any evidence for an opinion. I have since said that top 30 was probably an inaccurate original guesstimate.

And I have a full understanding of what an argument is. But, thanks for the advice. :rolleyes:

khan
11-05-2010, 01:42 PM
It was an opinion. I don't need to show you any evidence for an opinion. I have since said that top 30 was probably an inaccurate original guesstimate.

And I have a full understanding of what an argument is. But, thanks for the advice. :rolleyes:

You're welcome. I'm happy to help you in your understanding of the game.

KMcMahon817
11-05-2010, 01:46 PM
You're welcome. I'm happy to help you in your understanding of the game.

ha.

Nellie_Fox
11-05-2010, 01:52 PM
You're welcome. I'm happy to help you in your understanding of the game.Because no one understands it like khan. We all bask in the glow of his wisdom emitting from the computer monitor.

KMcMahon817
11-05-2010, 09:46 PM
Because no one understands it like khan. We all bask in the glow of his wisdom emitting from the computer monitor.

:tiphat: