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View Full Version : Elias Sports Bureau ranks PK, AJ as "Type A" free agents


Frater Perdurabo
10-28-2010, 07:16 PM
According to Mark Gonzalez of the Chicago Tribune (http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2010/10/konerko-pierzysnki-type-a-free-agents.html)

The Sox would be silly not to offer both of them arbitration.

Frater Perdurabo
10-28-2010, 07:21 PM
Credit to russ99 for posting this info first in the Thornton and Castro Back (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=124103) thread, but I thought this deserved it's own thread since Gonzo is now reporting it.

Speaking of Konerko, our favorite rumor site (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/10/official-elias-rankings.html) got their hands on Elias rankings. Konerko, Manny and A.J. are Type A and Putz is a Type B. If we offer arb and they sign elsewhere, the Sox are getting draft picks. If I were Kenny, I'd consider doing so on all of them except maybe Manny.

DirtySox
10-28-2010, 07:24 PM
According to Mark Gonzalez of the Chicago Tribune (http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2010/10/konerko-pierzysnki-type-a-free-agents.html)

The Sox would be silly not to offer both of them arbitration.

Konerko and Putz will undoubtedly be offered arbitration. AJ could go either way. If payroll is being cut the Sox might not be able to risk him accepting. Hopefully he is looking for a multi-year deal and the Sox take the risk of offering it to him and he signs elsewhere.

Draft pick compensation would be quite nice with a very strong 2011 draft class.

Brian26
10-28-2010, 07:55 PM
No way in hell can you offer arbitration to Manny.

WhiteSox5187
10-28-2010, 08:12 PM
No way in hell can you offer arbitration to Manny.

It's a big risk, but I think he is on the record of saying he will file free agency and test the market. At least that is what he was saying at the beginning of the year in LA.

russ99
10-28-2010, 10:09 PM
It's a big risk, but I think he is on the record of saying he will file free agency and test the market. At least that is what he was saying at the beginning of the year in LA.

Yeah, but despite Boras' skills, Manny's going to have to take a pay cut next year. I doubt the Sox would risk him accepting and going to a hearing, but they could always walk away from the ruling.

I think it's 60-40 for A.J. against, with the Sox considering bringing him back, but also for a pay cut. A.J. accepting arb would mess that up.

Akin to Pods, if A.J. wants more than the Sox are offering, they'll look elsewhere, IMO.

Lip Man 1
10-29-2010, 01:14 AM
A.J. has already been quoted on camera late this season as saying he would not offer a hometown discount.

Lip

DirtySox
10-29-2010, 01:36 AM
A.J. has already been quoted on camera late this season as saying he would not offer a hometown discount.

Lip

Nice. Offer that arbitration.

Nellie_Fox
10-29-2010, 02:42 AM
Yeah, but despite Boras' skills, Manny's going to have to take a pay cut next year. I doubt the Sox would risk him accepting and going to a hearing, but they could always walk away from the ruling.I'm no expert on the collective bargaining agreement, but I thought that in MLB, unlike the NHL, you can't "walk away" once you offer arbitration. I thought you have to live with the results.

CPditka
10-29-2010, 09:36 AM
Maybe Im in the minority, but Id offer almost everyone arb. We need draft picks (in a bad way). This would be a great way to restock the farm. The worst case scenario is we overpay for one of our own for a year.

jdm2662
10-29-2010, 10:00 AM
I'm no expert on the collective bargaining agreement, but I thought that in MLB, unlike the NHL, you can't "walk away" once you offer arbitration. I thought you have to live with the results.

You are correct. Once the team offers and the player accepts, the team is stuck. The player, of course, can refuse and look for a better offer.

Balfanman
10-29-2010, 10:22 AM
Maybe Im in the minority, but Id offer almost everyone arb. We need draft picks (in a bad way). This would be a great way to restock the farm. The worst case scenario is we overpay for one of our own for a year.

I would agree to a point. Being "stuck" with Konerko, A. J., or Putz is one thing, I don't think that I want anything to do with Manny Ramirez at that salary.

tm1119
10-29-2010, 12:36 PM
I wouldnt even offer AJ arbitration. 6.25M is way too much for what AJ produces at this point in his career, and theres probably about a 1% chance of anybody giving up a 1st round pick for him. Dont offer arb and offer him a 2 year 6M contract. If he doesnt like it let him walk. I really dont believe that a Castro/Flowers platoon is any worse than AJ anyway.

VMSNS
10-29-2010, 12:48 PM
I wouldnt even offer AJ arbitration. 6.25M is way too much for what AJ produces at this point in his career, and theres probably about a 1% chance of anybody giving up a 1st round pick for him. Dont offer arb and offer him a 2 year 6M contract. If he doesnt like it let him walk. I really dont believe that a Castro/Flowers platoon is any worse than AJ anyway.

Castro doesn't want to start, and Flowers has been unimpressive. Who else are we supposed to use?

khan
10-29-2010, 02:21 PM
Draft pick compensation would be quite nice with a very strong 2011 draft class.

Yes, so that KW can draft more craptacular college pitchers or overdraft guys who are "signable."

Pablo_Honey
10-29-2010, 02:33 PM
I wouldnt even offer AJ arbitration. 6.25M is way too much for what AJ produces at this point in his career, and theres probably about a 1% chance of anybody giving up a 1st round pick for him. Dont offer arb and offer him a 2 year 6M contract. If he doesnt like it let him walk. I really dont believe that a Castro/Flowers platoon is any worse than AJ anyway.
I agree. Considering recent failures to ink multi-year deals by aging veterans, it's quite possible that AJ's agent wants to take arb so I would be hesitant to offer him arb.

Yes, so that KW can draft more craptacular college pitchers or overdraft guys who are "signable."
Yup, that seems to be the inevitable. I'm calling it now: Watch them make a great pick with their first and then go with signability or severe question marks all the way, along with a little sprinkle of family members. Well, who knows, next year's class may be stacked enough that we might get to pick up lesser talents that are actually decent.

khan
10-29-2010, 02:44 PM
Yup, that seems to be the inevitable. I'm calling it now: Watch them make a great pick with their first and then go with signability or severe question marks all the way, along with a little sprinkle of family members. Well, who knows, next year's class may be stacked enough that we might get to pick up lesser talents that are actually decent.
KW has been pretty good hitting the 'gimmes' in recent years [Sale, Beckham], but he hasn't been very good outside the easy-to-pick 1st rounders.

I mean, a blind man on a galloping horse could see that Beckham and Sale had ability when they were picked. But KW picking up compensatory picks hasn't yielded much to my memory.

DirtySox
10-29-2010, 02:50 PM
Yes, so that KW can draft more craptacular college pitchers or overdraft guys who are "signable."

Indeed. I really wonder how much the Sox would budget for the draft if they do end up receiving multiple compensatory picks. Being in the bottom tier for spending (like usual) with plenty of picks in the first 3 rounds would be quite the feat.

CPditka
10-29-2010, 02:57 PM
I would agree to a point. Being "stuck" with Konerko, A. J., or Putz is one thing, I don't think that I want anything to do with Manny Ramirez at that salary.


Agreed.

nitetrain8601
10-29-2010, 08:29 PM
Count me in the I think we would screw up the majority of those picks group. Until the ballclub is willing to go overslot, the Sox won't end up ever having a great draft or even a good one. Just my opinion.

Brian26
10-29-2010, 08:59 PM
Maybe Im in the minority, but Id offer almost everyone arb. We need draft picks (in a bad way). This would be a great way to restock the farm. The worst case scenario is we overpay for one of our own for a year.

Manny made $20 million last year.

Arbitration for Manny is going to be a mess, probably a process the Sox don't want to go through. This is assuming the Sox can't work out a deal with Boras before the hearing.

Daver
10-29-2010, 09:10 PM
Count me in the I think we would screw up the majority of those picks group. Until the ballclub is willing to go overslot, the Sox won't end up ever having a great draft or even a good one. Just my opinion.

The Twins do not overpay for draft picks, nor for the most part do the A's, the Dodgers, the Devil Dogs, or the Marlins to name a few. It is not an issue of slot, it is an issue of scouting, most first round picks never make it to a major league roster, or do and fail. To build through the draft takes the ability to make later round picks that can turn into quality ballplayers, no one does it better than the Twins, and not many are worse than the White Sox, they don't scout enough amateur talent to make any knowledgeable picks after the 15th round from my observations.

Shot in the dark drafting is not really a good way to build a system.

nitetrain8601
10-30-2010, 10:35 AM
The Twins do not overpay for draft picks, nor for the most part do the A's, the Dodgers, the Devil Dogs, or the Marlins to name a few. It is not an issue of slot, it is an issue of scouting, most first round picks never make it to a major league roster, or do and fail. To build through the draft takes the ability to make later round picks that can turn into quality ballplayers, no one does it better than the Twins, and not many are worse than the White Sox, they don't scout enough amateur talent to make any knowledgeable picks after the 15th round from my observations.

Shot in the dark drafting is not really a good way to build a system.

Yes. And the thing is, I don't think the scouting will change as JR likes to be loyal to his guys. So we won't see major changes until he's gone. KW doesn't seem to pressing for major changes in the scouting department neither. So for the time being, we're going to have to go overslot for guys who fall if we want to have good drafts. If not, we're going to end up with 1 player every 5 years who can make a contribution.

tm1119
10-30-2010, 12:35 PM
Castro doesn't want to start, and Flowers has been unimpressive. Who else are we supposed to use?

Theres a plethora of FA catchers that are on par with AJ that would cost half the 6+M AJ would make if/when he offers arb. Barjas, Buck, Torrealba, 2 Molinas, Olivo, and like I said AJ is still an option if he is willing to sign for much less than what he made last year. Theres just no way Im going to pay a guy who barely get on base at a .300 clip and cant slug above .400 6+M dollars. Makes no sense regardless of what position he plays.

Nellie_Fox
10-31-2010, 12:47 AM
There's just no way I'm going to pay a guy who barely get on base at a .300 clip and can't slug above .400 6+M dollars.I don't think anybody's asking you to.

cards press box
10-31-2010, 02:08 AM
According to Mark Gonzalez of the Chicago Tribune (http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2010/10/konerko-pierzysnki-type-a-free-agents.html)

The Sox would be silly not to offer both of them arbitration.

I cannot imagine that the Sox would not offer arbitration to Konerko, A.J. and Putz.

tstrike2000
10-31-2010, 10:15 AM
I cannot imagine that the Sox would not offer arbitration to Konerko, A.J. and Putz.

And a couple of places I read also said Konerko is a priority for the D-Backs. Considering the year he had, he may get an offer he can't refuse from his hometown area.

Daver
10-31-2010, 10:34 AM
I don't think anybody's asking you to.

I'm still trying to figure out why he would use offensive numbers for examples of the most purely defensive position on the field.

tm1119
10-31-2010, 11:27 AM
I'm still trying to figure out why he would use offensive numbers for examples of the most purely defensive position on the field.

Yeah youre right, AJ surely willed our pitching staff to the 18th best ERA in baseball. Surely we would have been doomed without him.

Nellie_Fox
11-01-2010, 12:36 AM
Yeah youre right, AJ surely willed our pitching staff to the 18th best ERA in baseball. Surely we would have been doomed without him.Read Daver's post again. He did not take a position on AJ's defensive value. He merely questioned using offensive numbers to evaluate a defensive position.

tm1119
11-01-2010, 07:16 PM
Read Daver's post again. He did not take a position on AJ's defensive value. He merely questioned using offensive numbers to evaluate a defensive position.

It was assumed based off of prior arguments we have had here.

Daver
11-01-2010, 07:43 PM
It was assumed based off of prior arguments we have had here.

You do know what happens when you assume, right?