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thomas35forever
10-14-2010, 11:41 PM
http://blog.seattletimes.nwsource.com/mariners/bartman.jpg

chisoxfanatic
10-14-2010, 11:49 PM
Time sure flies by...I was at Elroy's, a bar near ISU in downtown Bloomington while watching that game. I was 1 of only 3 people in the bar rooting for the Marlins (the other two were a Sox fan and a Cardinals fan). We high-fived each other. I watched Game 7 in my dorm, yelled "Cubs lose!" out of my window, and heard someone yell back "**** you!" 5 seconds later...Awesomeness!

The next day on the ISU campus felt MUCH better. A few days before, I was walking by myself from my dorm to do some research at the library and decided to wear my Frank Thomas jersey and a Sox hat. A few guys wearing Cubs hats booed me, even though I didn't even bother them. I made sure I wore the Sox hat around campus again the day after they were eliminated.

WhiteSox5187
10-15-2010, 12:01 AM
I was watching that game with my brother and when that happened I turned to him and said "Wouldn't it be funny if the Marlins came back to win this game and people pointed to that?"

Noneck
10-15-2010, 12:03 AM
I remember talking to all my friends prior to game 6 of this series. We all went through the 60's with the yanks skunking the Sox and some went through the 50's also. We talked about what can we hope for, the cubs or the yanks. To me that was like choosing between hanging or a guillotine. All I said was remember 1984, thank god I was right.

hi im skot
10-15-2010, 12:09 AM
Yep, seven years since Mark Prior couldn't get an out and Alex Gonzalez couldn't field an easy double play.

GoGoCrede
10-15-2010, 12:40 AM
I REALLY wish I'd been on WSI when that happened. I read the gamethread from that night, and it was hilarious.

DumpJerry
10-15-2010, 01:37 AM
I wish people would forget that night.

All it did was perpetuate the victimhood that Cub fans bask in. Gave them something else to whine about with a smile.

Alou has since said he would not have been able to catch that ball anyway.

MarySwiss
10-15-2010, 02:43 AM
I wish people would forget that night.

All it did was perpetuate the victimhood that Cub fans bask in. Gave them something else to whine about with a smile.

Alou has since said he would not have been able to catch that ball anyway.
Agree wholeheartedly. And I still feel sorry for that poor guy. Any other team in any other stadium, this would have died by now.

cards press box
10-15-2010, 03:01 AM
Alou has since said he would not have been able to catch that ball anyway.

That is not exactly right. It is true that Alou told two kids in an elevator that he probably wouldn't have caught the ball. But that was a passing comment. Alou was being more polite than anything else.

Juice16
10-15-2010, 07:26 AM
That is not exactly right. It is true that Alou told two kids in an elevator that he probably wouldn't have caught the ball. But that was a passing comment. Alou was being more polite than anything else.

There was a newspaper article written around the 5 year anniversary where Alou said he felt sorry for Bartman and admitted he would not have caught the ball.

C-Dawg
10-15-2010, 09:15 AM
I had already admitted defeat and gone to bed that night (and the next night too) about 8:30. I didn't want to see the Cubs celebration! It is kind of funny to think back on it now; the morning after Game 7 I woke up about 4AM after a fitful night of sleep. I kept dreaming everything was going to be all right because the Cubs had lost, but then I'd awaken suddenly and I knew it was just a dream. Finally at 4AM I got out of bed and turned on my computer. Hmmm, nothing on my home page or whatever I was using at the time. I clicked on CBS Sportsline and the first thing I saw there was the victory celebration in the Marlins locker room! It was great!

jdm2662
10-15-2010, 09:25 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhc5iNGuDbc

I was bowling with jcw218 and another friend. After the first out in the eighth, I turn to them and said "Guys, they are going to the World Series. We are just going to have to deal with it." Opps.

Got to love all the morons involved. If Alex Gonzalez makes the play and gets one out, AT THE VERY LEAST, they get out of the inning tied. The SAC FLY to score the fourth run would've been the third out. Yep, let's blame everything on a fan.

asindc
10-15-2010, 09:31 AM
Yep, seven years since Mark Prior couldn't get an out and Alex Gonzalez couldn't field an easy double play.

This. Though I admit that I sensed the impending doom had just been initiated at the Bartman moment. I also remember thinking they need to escort that poor guy out of the park.

Moses_Scurry
10-15-2010, 09:35 AM
Watching that sequence again just reinforces the monumental idiocy of anybody who blames Bartman for what happened. They had a 3 RUN LEAD with one person on base. Plus they had an out already. It's not like the next guy after the play came up and hit a 3 run homer. They gave up hit after hit after hit with Gonzales being the true goat.

g0g0
10-15-2010, 11:19 AM
Watching that sequence again just reinforces the monumental idiocy of anybody who blames Bartman for what happened. They had a 3 RUN LEAD with one person on base. Plus they had an out already. It's not like the next guy after the play came up and hit a 3 run homer. They gave up hit after hit after hit with Gonzales being the true goat.

+1

The Bartman incident was just an easy headline/scapegoat and it spiraled out of control. (Though Alou's reaction was a bit childish.)

soxfan43
10-15-2010, 11:28 AM
This. Though I admit that I sensed the impending doom had just been initiated at the Bartman moment. I also remember thinking they need to escort that poor guy out of the park.

That was my initial reaction as well. I was in college in Ohio at the time and at a house party watching it. So many random people not from Chicago started popping up around campus wearing Cubs stuff, which drove me crazy. or the Cubs. I had a bunch of people giving him crap for that by the end of the night. I felt bad for my friends that were true Cubs fans but I loved laughing in the face of all the band wagoners. Absolutely loved it.

FielderJones
10-15-2010, 11:48 AM
As that first out was made in the 8th I remember feeling absolutely sick. The Cubs were going to sweep up all the bandwagoners, get national attention, and the Sox would probably move out of town.

Thanks to Cub ineptness, and not Bartman, the outcome was slightly different. :D:

russ99
10-15-2010, 11:52 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhc5iNGuDbc

I was bowling with jcw218 and another friend. After the first out in the eighth, I turn to them and said "Guys, they are going to the World Series. We are just going to have to deal with it." Opps.

Got to love all the morons involved. If Alex Gonzalez makes the play and gets one out, AT THE VERY LEAST, they get out of the inning tied. The SAC FLY to score the fourth run would've been the third out. Yep, let's blame everything on a fan.

Not to mention they had their ace on the mound the next day with a lead and blew it. Ironic, that the "blame Bartman" idiots always conveniently forget that.

VenturaFan23
10-15-2010, 11:53 AM
Yep, seven years since Mark Prior couldn't get an out and Alex Gonzalez couldn't field an easy double play.

Yeah, that's the way other normal baseball fans saw it too.

Orta 4-6-3
10-15-2010, 12:01 PM
If Alex Gonzalez doesn't boot that double play ball, nobody knows Bartman's name today. Yet somehow, Gonzalez gets off scot free, and it's all Bartman's fault.

There was an excellent documentary on Winston Churchill on Channel 11 that night, which was able to keep my occupied when I wasn't briefly (and worriedly) switching to the game to get the score. By the eighth, I had resigned myself to the Cubs winning, consoling myself with thoughts of "Well, at least I had '84", and "The Yankees will beat them in the Series, the Yankees will beat them in the Series".

I was learning about Sir Winston when the Bartman incident happened, but I saw the Gonzalez error (I believe I shredded a vocal cord with a joyous yell), and all the wonderful events that followed, sitting there, almost stunned, mouth agape, as my wildest anti-Cub dreams were exceeded.

jdm2662
10-15-2010, 12:19 PM
Not to mention they had their ace on the mound the next day with a lead and blew it. Ironic, that the "blame Bartman" idiots always conveniently forget that.

Yeah, and instead of using Matt Clement for three innings, Dusty said it wasn't fair to his bullpen dudes. Meanwhile, McKeon used both Brad Penny and Josh Beckett in game seven. I also remember Torre using both David Wells and Mike Mussina in their game seven as well.

DumpJerry
10-15-2010, 12:19 PM
People keep forgetting how, during that rally, Sammy tried to be Superman and threw the ball to Home instead of the cut-off man. That opened the floodgates.

I blame Dusty Baker for the mess. As soon as I saw Alou yell at the fans and then the camera cut to Prior yelling at LF, I said the Cubs just lost the game because they let a minor situation get in their heads. Baker should have trotted out to the Mound to calm down the young and inexperienced Mark Prior to get his head back in it and to give the other guys a moment or two to get the incident behind them. Instead, he pulled a Jerry Manuel and sat in the dugout and let the players spin the foul ball in their heads and allowed the Marlins take advantage of the distraction.

One thing Cub fans always overlook when they blame this game for keeping them from The Promised Land is that it tied up the NLCS. They still had a home game the next day with Kerry Wood pitching. They even had a lead at one point in Game 7.......

But yeah, the TV guys announcing the "Cubs are X number of outs from the World Series" during game 6 was enough for me to take my CIA-issued Cyanide pill.

slavko
10-15-2010, 01:01 PM
Not to mention they had their ace on the mound the next day with a lead and blew it. Ironic, that the "blame Bartman" idiots always conveniently forget that.

Three games in a row, the Z the J and the K going and they lose them all. Good call above on Dusty for not settling down the situation, like whose job was it? And the ball was ruled out-of-play by the LF umpire who pointed to the stands as it was in the air. It "came back" into the field of play as foul pops sometimes do.

Still, they overcame the Brant Brown play in County Stadium a few years back, but not this time. Saw that one on an exercise bike at the "Y," the shreiking and moaning from the other gym rats was hilarious. IIRC, they beat Dusty's Giants in game 163.

Noneck
10-15-2010, 01:18 PM
Good call above on Dusty for not settling down the situation, like whose job was it?

Johnnie Bakers responsibility was to watch that his human shield didnt run on the field again, so he could be ready for his shielding duties at post game press conferences.

guillensdisciple
10-15-2010, 01:44 PM
You gotta give it to the Marlins too. That post season, they were ridiculous in come backs and Ivan Rodriguez was at his playoff prime back then.

DumpJerry
10-15-2010, 01:48 PM
I think the Marlin's Third Base Coach deked Gonzales on that ground ball. I've heard that guy is prone to doing that to players........:redneck

chisoxfanatic
10-15-2010, 02:29 PM
Watching that sequence again just reinforces the monumental idiocy of anybody who blames Bartman for what happened. They had a 3 RUN LEAD with one person on base. Plus they had an out already. It's not like the next guy after the play came up and hit a 3 run homer. They gave up hit after hit after hit with Gonzales being the true goat.
Does anyone expect a Cubs fan to actually blame the players? They never hold their players accountable.

RedHeadPaleHoser
10-15-2010, 02:41 PM
Yep, seven years since Mark Prior couldn't get an out and Alex Gonzalez couldn't field an easy double play.

AND the Cubs had another shot in Game 7 - with Wood on the mound.

EDIT - was better said before my post.

GoGoCrede
10-15-2010, 02:48 PM
I wish people would forget that night.

All it did was perpetuate the victimhood that Cub fans bask in. Gave them something else to whine about with a smile.

Alou has since said he would not have been able to catch that ball anyway.

Apparently he recently took that statement back, saying he would have caught it. Douche.

rdwj
10-15-2010, 02:57 PM
I blame the whole Cub loss on a friend of mine who is a Cub fan. I got a call from him asking if I was "watching sports history" minutes before the Bartman thing. He didn't know how accurate that statement really was.

I waited until the series was REALLY over before my return call of joy.

chisoxjtrain
10-15-2010, 03:21 PM
On Halloween that year, I dressed up as Bartman in my high school. I almost got my ass kicked many times that day.

C-Dawg
10-15-2010, 04:05 PM
But yeah, the TV guys announcing the "Cubs are X number of outs from the World Series" during game 6 was enough for me to take my CIA-issued Cyanide pill.

That's what makes the collapse so epic. They were going to the Series! They were there! Then came the Mother Of All Chokes. What were they, up like 3-1 in that game? And they led for awhile in Game 7 too; pathetic.

Every time I hear "Its Our Turn" or "Its Gonna Happen", I just think, they've HAD their turn. And blew it big time.

jdm2662
10-15-2010, 04:45 PM
That's what makes the collapse so epic. They were going to the Series! They were there! Then came the Mother Of All Chokes. What were they, up like 3-1 in that game? And they led for awhile in Game 7 too; pathetic.

Every time I hear "Its Our Turn" or "Its Gonna Happen", I just think, they've HAD their turn. And blew it big time.

After Beckett shut them out in game five, there was no way they were coming home and losing two with both Wood and Prior going...

russ99
10-15-2010, 04:48 PM
That's what makes the collapse so epic. They were going to the Series! They were there! Then came the Mother Of All Chokes. What were they, up like 3-1 in that game? And they led for awhile in Game 7 too; pathetic.

Every time I hear "Its Our Turn" or "Its Gonna Happen", I just think, they've HAD their turn. And blew it big time.

The evil thought I have going around my mind is: if the Cubs weren't so greedy and installed lights for night games, that game would gave been played during the day.

Thus Bartman would have been blinded by the sun and not even reached for the ball... :tongue:

ewokpelts
10-15-2010, 05:04 PM
The evil thought I have going around my mind is: if the Cubs weren't so greedy and installed lights for night games, that game would gave been played during the day.

Thus Bartman would have been blinded by the sun and not even reached for the ball... :tongue:after 1984(when the cubs were slated to lose home field advantage in the WS, and almost lost the right to have playoff games at wrigley), they HAD to install lights.

TDog
10-15-2010, 06:00 PM
I REALLY wish I'd been on WSI when that happened. I read the gamethread from that night, and it was hilarious.

For Game 7, the WSI chat room was very active and enjoying the Cubs' demise. That was entertaining as well. I actually had to work the night of Game 6. I was listening to the game on the radio before going off to a city planning commission meeting, hearing the Marlins score all those runs while in my car. (I was at a stoplight at the corner of Mendenhall Loop and Mendenhall Mall roads in the Mendenhall Valley when the error was committed.) I wasn't on WSI that night. Both nights there was even a spectacular aurora borealis show going on directly overhead as if to celebrate the Cubs' misfortunes.

I disagree, though, that Steve Bartman should have been left alone. He was a dumb fan. People should understand that if they are going to go to baseball games and they are going to do things that might interfere with those games, their actions may haunt them for the rest of their lives.

PaleHoser
10-15-2010, 06:04 PM
Does anyone expect a Cubs fan to actually blame the players? They never hold their players accountable.

I was at the Marlins "home" game that was played against the Expos that was played at The Cell in 2004. Alex Gonzalez was playing SS for the Expos and two bimbos in Cubs gear were sitting right behind the Expos dugout holding up signs professing their love for him the entire game.

:puking:

pearso66
10-15-2010, 09:55 PM
I remember being out to dinner during that game, and when I got home I turned on the TV to see what was going on, I think it was either the batter that hit the ball to Bartman, or the batter before. I thought it was hilarious that was the exact time I turned the game on. It was even funnier Alou's and Prior's reaction to the play.

TommyJohn
10-15-2010, 10:32 PM
For Game 7, the WSI chat room was very active and enjoying the Cubs' demise. That was entertaining as well. I actually had to work the night of Game 6. I was listening to the game on the radio before going off to a city planning commission meeting, hearing the Marlins score all those runs while in my car. (I was at a stoplight at the corner of Mendenhall Loop and Mendenhall Mall roads in the Mendenhall Valley when the error was committed.) I wasn't on WSI that night. Both nights there was even a spectacular aurora borealis show going on directly overhead as if to celebrate the Cubs' misfortunes.

I disagree, though, that Steve Bartman should have been left alone. He was a dumb fan. People should understand that if they are going to go to baseball games and they are going to do things that might interfere with those games, their actions may haunt them for the rest of their lives.

I see. So you agree with the harrassment, death threats, comments about his appearance, driving him into hiding? Or just that he should be blamed. What bull****. They might do things that will haunt them for the rest of their lives? It's a ****ing baseball game. People should have some ****ing goddamn perspective.

Bucky F. Dent
10-15-2010, 10:42 PM
Watching that sequence again just reinforces the monumental idiocy of anybody who blames Bartman for what happened. They had a 3 RUN LEAD with one person on base. Plus they had an out already. It's not like the next guy after the play came up and hit a 3 run homer. They gave up hit after hit after hit with Gonzales being the true goat.

+2 The butchered that entire inning.

hi im skot
10-16-2010, 01:20 AM
I see. So you agree with the harrassment, death threats, comments about his appearance, driving him into hiding? Or just that he should be blamed. What bull****. They might do things that will haunt them for the rest of their lives? It's a ****ing baseball game. People should have some ****ing goddamn perspective.

Thank you.

Sports sure do make people stupid sometimes.

BringHomeDaBacon
10-16-2010, 01:23 AM
On Halloween that year, I dressed up as Bartman in my high school. I almost got my ass kicked many times that day.

How clever

TDog
10-16-2010, 01:46 AM
I see. So you agree with the harrassment, death threats, comments about his appearance, driving him into hiding? Or just that he should be blamed. What bull****. They might do things that will haunt them for the rest of their lives? It's a ****ing baseball game. People should have some ****ing goddamn perspective.

For what Steve Bartman did, all of the harrassment was predictable. It's not right, of course, and it's out of perspective. A lot of things are out of perspective. There are entire sports in this country that are out of perspective. People were wrong to harrass him, but it wasn't as if he was an innocent party.

As a journalist, I would have had no problem in publishing Steve Bartman's name even knowing the harrassment that would follow. People cared deeply about the outcome of the game, and like it or not, Steve Bartman (who will forever be the national posterboy for airhead Cubs fans) was pivotal in the outcome. Even if journalists didn't do their job and publish his name, people would have discovered his identity on their own. Steve Bartman wasn't being harrassed because his name was published. He has been harrassed because he did something no fan should ever do. I've been in the front row of baseball games and avoided interfering with balls in play and screamed at other fans to act likewise. It isn't as if anyone else would have done the same thing in his situation. Only a really dumb fan would do something like that.

If he's being harrassed, publicize the harrassment. Let him serve as an object lesson to educate others on their responsibilities when they go someplace to witness history not to become part of history.

Frater Perdurabo
10-16-2010, 08:13 AM
Don't act like the news media is completely innocent in this thing, TDog.

The Cubs' popularity is the creation of a news media company, perpetuated and grown by the saliva of other lemminglike news media copycats.

Bartman made an innocent mistake. It had major consequences that some found tragic and others found comic.

But a lot of reporters like to use the veil of "professional duty" in an effort to hide their cheerleading. I am not accusing you of this, TDog, because I think you are an ethical journalist. But there are "agenda-driven" reporters out there, especially in the sports media.

luckyboy
10-16-2010, 10:13 AM
The thing that bothers me the most about how he was treated is the fact that he wasn't the only one reaching for the ball. Watch the video again. There were many hands trying to get that ball and where's the hatred towards them? Why aren't their names in the paper as idiot fans in the front row that don't know how not to interfere?

Lundind1
10-16-2010, 10:28 AM
After watching this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhc5iNGuDbc

As for Bartman, I blame the coverage that the incident got. I counted them replaying that no less than 8 times. If they had just glossed over it, most of the dummy fans at home would not have blamed him and it would have been an after thought. But since it was the Fubs, it garnered all world type stuff.

Thank you Mike Mordecai for plating all of those runs with that double. And it all started with none other than our own Juan Pierre.

soltrain21
10-16-2010, 10:34 AM
For what Steve Bartman did, all of the harrassment was predictable. It's not right, of course, and it's out of perspective. A lot of things are out of perspective. There are entire sports in this country that are out of perspective. People were wrong to harrass him, but it wasn't as if he was an innocent party.

As a journalist, I would have had no problem in publishing Steve Bartman's name even knowing the harrassment that would follow. People cared deeply about the outcome of the game, and like it or not, Steve Bartman (who will forever be the national posterboy for airhead Cubs fans) was pivotal in the outcome. Even if journalists didn't do their job and publish his name, people would have discovered his identity on their own. Steve Bartman wasn't being harrassed because his name was published. He has been harrassed because he did something no fan should ever do. I've been in the front row of baseball games and avoided interfering with balls in play and screamed at other fans to act likewise. It isn't as if anyone else would have done the same thing in his situation. Only a really dumb fan would do something like that.

If he's being harrassed, publicize the harrassment. Let him serve as an object lesson to educate others on their responsibilities when they go someplace to witness history not to become part of history.

Oh, Jesus ****ing Christ. The guy didn't do anything wrong and in no way whatsoever has deserved what he has gotten. His life is ruined because he tried to catch a foul ball. He wasn't harassed because his name was published? Well, he sure as **** was harassed a lot more than he should have been.

You think only a very dumb fan would do that? Well, that's funny because I think only a dumb person would be okay with him receiving death threats and getting his life ruined over a foul ball at a baseball game.

TommyJohn
10-16-2010, 10:51 AM
For what Steve Bartman did, all of the harrassment was predictable. It's not right, of course, and it's out of perspective. A lot of things are out of perspective. There are entire sports in this country that are out of perspective. People were wrong to harrass him, but it wasn't as if he was an innocent party.

As a journalist, I would have had no problem in publishing Steve Bartman's name even knowing the harrassment that would follow. People cared deeply about the outcome of the game, and like it or not, Steve Bartman (who will forever be the national posterboy for airhead Cubs fans) was pivotal in the outcome. Even if journalists didn't do their job and publish his name, people would have discovered his identity on their own. Steve Bartman wasn't being harrassed because his name was published. He has been harrassed because he did something no fan should ever do. I've been in the front row of baseball games and avoided interfering with balls in play and screamed at other fans to act likewise. It isn't as if anyone else would have done the same thing in his situation. Only a really dumb fan would do something like that.

If he's being harrassed, publicize the harrassment. Let him serve as an object lesson to educate others on their responsibilities when they go someplace to witness history not to become part of history.

Oh, come on. This is just ridiculous. He did nothing wrong, I'm sorry. I'm sure no fan going after a foul ball could ever think that what he will do would alter the outcome of a game (fans going after a fairly batted ball rolling down the line, that's a different story). Well, now they do, because of that incident. No one wants a foul ball to destroy his/her life and have creeps like Jay Mariotti feverishly obsessing over them for the next several years.

I just can't believe anyone would condone what happened to him. The guy's life was literally in danger. Security had to fight off drunken *******s as they were escorting him out of the park. He received death threats and had to go into hiding. An "impartial" so-called journalist wants to strangle him. All because the Cubs choked HARD. It wasn't his fault and he didn't deserve what happened him. No one does, I don't care how "dumb" they are.

Meanwhile, Cubbie fans continue to take shots at us over William Ligue.

C-Dawg
10-16-2010, 11:00 AM
After watching this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhc5iNGuDbc



WOW! Thanks for finding that, and posting it. I'm sure it'll be taken down unfortunately.

As I mentioned earlier, I'd already admitted defeat and gone to bed before all this happened and as such I'd never seen about 99% of that inning. Even the botched double play I'd never seen. Just the Bartman foul ball a million times. Actually I knew a few Cub fans who taped the games but none would let me borrow the tapes afterward; I'm sure they destroyed or taped over them soon thereafter.

I always like to mention the guy in the gray jacket who was also reaching for the ball. He almost knocked over Bartman! Yet he was the guy pointing at Bartman when all the cameras were on them.

Fenway
10-16-2010, 11:22 AM
http://www.ballhawk.com/NLCS%20G7%20L.JPG

jdm2662
10-16-2010, 01:16 PM
Don't act like the news media is completely innocent in this thing, TDog.

The Cubs' popularity is the creation of a news media company, perpetuated and grown by the saliva of other lemminglike news media copycats.

Bartman made an innocent mistake. It had major consequences that some found tragic and others found comic.

But a lot of reporters like to use the veil of "professional duty" in an effort to hide their cheerleading. I am not accusing you of this, TDog, because I think you are an ethical journalist. But there are "agenda-driven" reporters out there, especially in the sports media.

It's one thing for moron fans to do the things they did. The Cubbie loving tool media members were beyond shameful. Yep, let's ruin a person's life over a stupid baseball game. As a fan, I can talk sports, without bias and can keep perspective no matter what. I also almost never have a scape goat. Why can't some members do this is beyond me. It's your god damn job.

hi im skot
10-16-2010, 01:43 PM
For what Steve Bartman did, all of the harrassment was predictable. It's not right, of course, and it's out of perspective. A lot of things are out of perspective. There are entire sports in this country that are out of perspective. People were wrong to harrass him, but it wasn't as if he was an innocent party.
As a journalist, I would have had no problem in publishing Steve Bartman's name even knowing the harrassment that would follow.Something here just doesn't add up, unless you're essentially admitting that the reporters who published Bartman's name were completely irresponsible douchebags.

People cared deeply about the outcome of the game, and like it or not, Steve Bartman (who will forever be the national posterboy for airhead Cubs fans) was pivotal in the outcome.

Let's not pretend that Bartman wasn't a "real" baseball fan. (http://deadspin.com/5530141/excerpt-from-are-we-winning-a-prayer-for-steve-bartman)

Even if journalists didn't do their job and publish his name, people would have discovered his identity on their own. Wait, so it is a journalist's job to be a destructive *******? Ok, now it all makes sense...

Steve Bartman wasn't being harrassed because his name was published. He has been harrassed because he did something no fan should ever do. I've been in the front row of baseball games and avoided interfering with balls in play and screamed at other fans to act likewise. It isn't as if anyone else would have done the same thing in his situation. Only a really dumb fan would do something like that.Steve Bartman did what 99% of all baseball fans would have done in that situation. However, it's probably tough for you to tell from that view on your high horse.


If he's being harrassed, publicize the harrassment. Let him serve as an object lesson to educate others on their responsibilities when they go someplace to witness history not to become part of history.IT'S A ****ING BASEBALL GAME.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lackjj4hvY1qep94do1_400.gif

Goddammit.

Lundind1
10-16-2010, 02:11 PM
WOW! Thanks for finding that, and posting it. I'm sure it'll be taken down unfortunately.

As I mentioned earlier, I'd already admitted defeat and gone to bed before all this happened and as such I'd never seen about 99% of that inning. Even the botched double play I'd never seen. Just the Bartman foul ball a million times. Actually I knew a few Cub fans who taped the games but none would let me borrow the tapes afterward; I'm sure they destroyed or taped over them soon thereafter.

I always like to mention the guy in the gray jacket who was also reaching for the ball. He almost knocked over Bartman! Yet he was the guy pointing at Bartman when all the cameras were on them.

That is exactly why I posted the link. To show that he was not the only one, but was getting pushed by everyone around him. He just happend to get a hand on the ball. The other thing I wanted to show was that FOX kept replaying it over and over again in that broadcast. Just horrible.

Like I said, if it wasn't over sensationalized, no one would ever know who he was. That, coupled with the fact that Alou acted like a complete ass, made history. Poor guy will live in infamy for many ages.

Everybody makes mistakes whether in play or not, just ask the Sox security guard who had a lapse in judgement on a fair ball.

TommyJohn
10-16-2010, 02:25 PM
It's one thing for moron fans to do the things they did. The Cubbie loving tool media members were beyond shameful. Yep, let's ruin a person's life over a stupid baseball game. As a fan, I can talk sports, without bias and can keep perspective no matter what. I also almost never have a scape goat. Why can't some members do this is beyond me. It's your god damn job.

Agreed. I was thinking of that when I read Lip's article on the Sox and the media-the part that mentioned all the Cub supporters in the media and how they cheer for the Cubs. Members of the media take pride in being so much more intelligent than us inferior specimens, but in the Bartman case they led the parade of douchebaggery. In my opinion, some members of the Chicago media showed their true colors in the aftermath of that game.

Hitmen77
10-16-2010, 02:39 PM
As that first out was made in the 8th I remember feeling absolutely sick. The Cubs were going to sweep up all the bandwagoners, get national attention, and the Sox would probably move out of town.

Thanks to Cub ineptness, and not Bartman, the outcome was slightly different. :D:

The Cubs hype was overwhelmingly bad just before that game. Yes, I can understand Cubs fans and the media being excited (just as Sox fans were excited in 2005), but the two things that were really annoying to me were:

1) All the Cubs fans who insisted that I had to root for the Cubs because they were a Chicago team. All the people who made comments about me being the only Sox fan left and that I was being a sore loser for not supporting the Cubs.

2) The media acting like the Cubs already had the pennant all wrapped up before all the games were played.

The thing is, when 2005 came along, I'm sure Cubs fans were miserable too. But where were all the people crowing about "you HAVE TO support a Chicago team"? Poof!!! Those people were all gone hiding in the woodwork. Suddenly, it was all about Cubs fans sticking to their principles through thick and thin. In summary, Sox fans were sore losers and made to feel like lone holdouts in 2003 for not rooting for the Cubs but Cubs fans were proudly sticking with their team and not supporting the Sox in 2005. Can you say "double standard"?!:mad:

As far as the media hype, maybe after 2003 they learned their lesson and weren't so quick to crown the Sox as pennant winners or world champs before the final outs were made. I was happy with the media coverage in Oct. 2005 and I'm glad they didn't get ahead of themselves like they did for the Cubs 2 years earlier ......of course, that didn't stop the "It's Gonna Happen" campaign in 2008. :rolleyes:

I think we Sox fans really dodged a bullet in 2003. I know 2005 was hell for Cubs fans, but at least their team owns this market. If the Cubs had won it all in 2003, the Sox would never have been able to live up to that and would have been cemented in the "irrelevant" status by the media. Even winning in 2005 would have been covered as "yawn....been there, done that" by the media IMO.

Hitmen77
10-16-2010, 02:44 PM
I disagree, though, that Steve Bartman should have been left alone. He was a dumb fan. People should understand that if they are going to go to baseball games and they are going to do things that might interfere with those games, their actions may haunt them for the rest of their lives.
:thud:

As a journalist, I would have had no problem in publishing Steve Bartman's name even knowing the harrassment that would follow.

If he's being harrassed, publicize the harrassment. Let him serve as an object lesson to educate others on their responsibilities when they go someplace to witness history not to become part of history.

:shakehead:

I see. So you agree with the harrassment, death threats, comments about his appearance, driving him into hiding? Or just that he should be blamed. What bull****. They might do things that will haunt them for the rest of their lives? It's a ****ing baseball game. People should have some ****ing goddamn perspective.

Steve Bartman did what 99% of all baseball fans would have done in that situation. .....


IT'S A ****ING BASEBALL GAME.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lackjj4hvY1qep94do1_400.gif

Goddammit.

Well said, both of you. :clap:

TDog
10-16-2010, 03:05 PM
Don't act like the news media is completely innocent in this thing, TDog.

The Cubs' popularity is the creation of a news media company, perpetuated and grown by the saliva of other lemminglike news media copycats.

Bartman made an innocent mistake. It had major consequences that some found tragic and others found comic.

But a lot of reporters like to use the veil of "professional duty" in an effort to hide their cheerleading. I am not accusing you of this, TDog, because I think you are an ethical journalist. But there are "agenda-driven" reporters out there, especially in the sports media.

The Cubs popularity is the creation of marketing. Sports media has more to do with marketing that journalism (although practically, if marketing is an intersection of journalism and business). I was defending the responsibility of publicizing the identity of the idiot fan whose idiotic actions were followed by the inevitable Cubs collapse. It is hilarious that he seems to have gotten into the Cubs heads enough that the collapse followed, but he became the news story.

The media is pretty much irrelevant now, and expanding on that would get political. The media to a great extent has been replaced, some would say "democratized," by the Internet, which would have been all over Steve Bartman whether responsible news outlets reported it or not.

Steve Bartman acted like an idiot. He did an idiotic thing. It wasn't an innocent mistake. His actions reflected poorly on Cubs fans. Cubs fans treatment of Steve Bartman reflected poorly on Cubs fans. Steve Bartman isn't a victim. Although his harassment is out of proportion to his crime, he is responsible for his harassment.

Hitmen77
10-16-2010, 03:05 PM
The thing that bothers me the most about how he was treated is the fact that he wasn't the only one reaching for the ball. Watch the video again. There were many hands trying to get that ball and where's the hatred towards them? Why aren't their names in the paper as idiot fans in the front row that don't know how not to interfere?

Put 80% of the fans in that seat that they'd do the exact same thing. That video doesn't lie.

I wonder if Bartman would have been singled out like he did if Alou hadn't reacted to him the way he did. Typical Cubs and Cub hype to find a scapegoat and ignore the failures of the players on the field.

TommyJohn
10-16-2010, 03:09 PM
As far as the media hype, maybe after 2003 they learned their lesson and weren't so quick to crown the Sox as pennant winners or world champs before the final outs were made. I was happy with the media coverage in Oct. 2005 and I'm glad they didn't get ahead of themselves like they did for the Cubs 2 years earlier


Boy, they sure didn't. Remember all those articles about the 1969 Cubs, 1993 Giants and 1964 Phillies?

TommyJohn
10-16-2010, 03:11 PM
Steve Bartman acted like an idiot. He did an idiotic thing. It wasn't an innocent mistake. His actions reflected poorly on Cubs fans. Cubs fans treatment of Steve Bartman reflected poorly on Cubs fans. Steve Bartman isn't a victim. Although his harassment is out of proportion to his crime, he is responsible for his harassment.I give up. You are beyond hope. Are one of those journalists who sees us as inferior and stupid? Or is Lester Munson your mentor? Good Lord.

C-Dawg
10-16-2010, 03:14 PM
1) All the Cubs fans who insisted that I had to root for the Cubs because they were a Chicago team. All the people who made comments about me being the only Sox fan left and that I was being a sore loser for not supporting the Cubs.

I saw this in person back in 1983-1984. I was a Sox fan first and foremost but after the heartbreak in 1983 I would have been fine with a Cub World Series in 1984. Unfortunately every Cub fan I knew at the time said "Oh, no, we remember from last year; you're a SOX FAN! Don't go rooting for the Cubs and spoil our success!" I decided that was VERY rude and I decided I'd never root for the Cubs, ever again. The behavior of the media and many other Cub fans since then have reinforced my dislike of the team.


2) The media acting like the Cubs already had the pennant all wrapped up before all the games were played. The thing is, when 2005 came along, I'm sure Cubs fans were miserable too. But where were all the people crowing about "you HAVE TO support a Chicago team"?

Even worse were those in the media rooting against the Sox. John Kruk said something to the effect of "well, some would say that after 1919, they should never be allowed back into the Series..." (Gee, John, did you feel that way when you were ON the Sox?), and don't forget Eric Zorn openly rooting in his column for the Indians to overtake the Sox.

TommyJohn
10-16-2010, 03:26 PM
I saw this in person back in 1983-1984. I was a Sox fan first and foremost but after the heartbreak in 1983 I would have been fine with a Cub World Series in 1984. Unfortunately every Cub fan I knew at the time said "Oh, no, we remember from last year; you're a SOX FAN! Don't go rooting for the Cubs and spoil our success!" I decided that was VERY rude and I decided I'd never root for the Cubs, ever again. The behavior of the media and many other Cub fans since then have reinforced my dislike of the team.



Even worse were those in the media rooting against the Sox. John Kruk said something to the effect of "well, some would say that after 1919, they should never be allowed back into the Series..." (Gee, John, did you feel that way when you were ON the Sox?), and don't forget Eric Zorn openly rooting in his column for the Indians to overtake the Sox.

The most excited most of the media members got in 2005 was when the Indians started gaining on the Sox in September-as evidenced by this quote from a September, 2005 article by Paul Ladewski of the Southtown:


"To say the least, the gloom-and-doomers are a far cry from the giddy bunch who flashed "Ya Gotta Believe" signs in the Wrigley Field press box only two years ago. There is no such joy at U.S. Cellular these days, only a bunch of long faces after Joe Crede hit his clutch home run in the middle game of the series. Ya Gotta Bereave, indeed."

TommyJohn
10-16-2010, 03:28 PM
Even worse were those in the media rooting against the Sox. John Kruk said something to the effect of "well, some would say that after 1919, they should never be allowed back into the Series..."

I just cannot stand this brainless crap, seriously. It is just beyond stupid.

SI1020
10-16-2010, 03:42 PM
The Cubs popularity is the creation of marketing. Sports media has more to do with marketing that journalism (although practically, if marketing is an intersection of journalism and business). I was defending the responsibility of publicizing the identity of the idiot fan whose idiotic actions were followed by the inevitable Cubs collapse. It is hilarious that he seems to have gotten into the Cubs heads enough that the collapse followed, but he became the news story.

The media is pretty much irrelevant now, and expanding on that would get political. The media to a great extent has been replaced, some would say "democratized," by the Internet, which would have been all over Steve Bartman whether responsible news outlets reported it or not.

Steve Bartman acted like an idiot. He did an idiotic thing. It wasn't an innocent mistake. His actions reflected poorly on Cubs fans. Cubs fans treatment of Steve Bartman reflected poorly on Cubs fans. Steve Bartman isn't a victim. Although his harassment is out of proportion to his crime, he is responsible for his harassment. Good heavens are you ever one hell fire and brimstone judgemental person. I hope you're never around me when I make a mistake.

Frater Perdurabo
10-16-2010, 03:48 PM
Although his harassment is out of proportion to his crime, he is responsible for his harassment.

That's like blaming a girl who wore a tight skirt for getting raped.

Bartman is responsible for interfering with a foul ball that Alou probably would have caight for the second out of that inning.

Bartman is not responsible for the despicable, deplorable, disgusting, and frequently criminal actions of others, or the despecable words written and said by irresponsible ****wads in the news media - like Jay Mariotti - who hide behind their unearned privilege and wrap themselves in the First Amendment when they'd sooner wipe their butts with the Constitution than actually do any real journalism.

The Cub players, not Bartman, are responsible for their choke, and the Marlins are responsible for getting timely hits and taking advantage of the Cubs' stupid errors, poor play and weak-mindedness.

The real story of that series is the weak-mindedness of that Cubs team and their fans. These are the same lemminglike sheeple who prior to Bartman blamed a ****ing goat for their failures. Now they blame one of their own. ****idiots. And the news and sports media buy into, and perpetuate, that mindless idiocy.

A journalism who properly embraces the adversarial role the media is supposed to play would ask these fans, "Do you really blame a billy goat and a fan for keeping the Cubs from postseason success? What kind of IQ must you have to believe that? What do you think is responsible for the chokes in 2007 and 2008? The Tooth Fairy?"

SI1020
10-16-2010, 03:54 PM
Bartman is responsible for interfering with a foul ball that Alou probably would have caight for the second out of that inning.
Like many of us I've watched that play more times than I care to admit and while I believe the ball was definitely catchable I'm of the mind that it is more likely that it wouldn't have been caught. Of course that is merely my opinion and the rest of your post was as the British say spot on.

TDog
10-16-2010, 04:00 PM
I give up. You are beyond hope. Are one of those journalists who sees us as inferior and stupid? Or is Lester Munson your mentor? Good Lord.

I have never met any White Sox fan who would admit they would purposely interfer with a potential out for his team with his team five outs away from going to the World Series. I have never met anyone who would admit to doing so, because they knew it would be a stupid thing to do. Just in case you are stupid enough to do something like that, they warn you before the game not to do that.

If I am a Cubs fan in that situation, my priority isn't reaching out for the baseball. It's hoping Alou catches the ball. I have avoided interfering with plays in meaningless games.

If not doing something that could get me ejected from a game makes me superior to people who would do such a stupid thing, I plead guilty.

pearso66
10-16-2010, 05:30 PM
I have never met any White Sox fan who would admit they would purposely interfer with a potential out for his team with his team five outs away from going to the World Series. I have never met anyone who would admit to doing so, because they knew it would be a stupid thing to do. Just in case you are stupid enough to do something like that, they warn you before the game not to do that.

If I am a Cubs fan in that situation, my priority isn't reaching out for the baseball. It's hoping Alou catches the ball. I have avoided interfering with plays in meaningless games.

If not doing something that could get me ejected from a game makes me superior to people who would do such a stupid thing, I plead guilty.

He didn't purposely interfere with a potential out. He was going to catch a foul ball. A thing a lot of people try to do. How many times have you seen a person grab a ball that was just fair? What about the kid in the Baltimore/Yankee game many years ago. They aren't there to purposely interfere with the players, they want to take home a piece of history. My guess is Bartman along with the people next to him were thinking "I'm going to catch this foul ball from the game the Cubs clinch the NL and make it to the World Series. I GUARANTEE he wasn't thinking "Alou is going to catch this ball, I must block him from doing this." I know you're going to say that's not what you said, but you said no Sox fan would admit that they would purposely interfere with a possible out. To me that's what it sounds like you are saying whether you mean it or not.

It's a shame what the city did to Bartman, and even after the Cubs and Cubs fans did that to him, he remained a Cubs fan. Of course he couldn't show his face around the city for at least a year after that. He was blamed for the Cubs not winning the World Series. That one ball didn't even affect the at bat. If Alou hadn't caught it, it would have been the same count, and Prior had another shot at striking out/getting the batter out. The score was still 3-0 at that point, he didn't give up 8 runs in that inning. I still don't get your point that he got what he deserved. He did nothing wrong, and I have seen what he did happen at US Cellular, but of course only an idiot fan would do that.

In this case, I can't believe in 05 in Houston that those fans let Uribe dive into the stands without trying to knock the ball out. But I thank them for that.

gogosox675
10-16-2010, 06:37 PM
I have never met any White Sox fan who would admit they would purposely interfer with a potential out for his team with his team five outs away from going to the World Series. I have never met anyone who would admit to doing so, because they knew it would be a stupid thing to do. Just in case you are stupid enough to do something like that, they warn you before the game not to do that.

If I am a Cubs fan in that situation, my priority isn't reaching out for the baseball. It's hoping Alou catches the ball. I have avoided interfering with plays in meaningless games.

If not doing something that could get me ejected from a game makes me superior to people who would do such a stupid thing, I plead guilty.

:rolleyes: x 1000.

TDog
10-16-2010, 06:53 PM
He didn't purposely interfere with a potential out. He was going to catch a foul ball. A thing a lot of people try to do. How many times have you seen a person grab a ball that was just fair? What about the kid in the Baltimore/Yankee game many years ago. They aren't there to purposely interfere with the players, they want to take home a piece of history. My guess is Bartman along with the people next to him were thinking "I'm going to catch this foul ball from the game the Cubs clinch the NL and make it to the World Series. I GUARANTEE he wasn't thinking "Alou is going to catch this ball, I must block him from doing this." I know you're going to say that's not what you said, but you said no Sox fan would admit that they would purposely interfere with a possible out. To me that's what it sounds like you are saying whether you mean it or not.

It's a shame what the city did to Bartman, and even after the Cubs and Cubs fans did that to him, he remained a Cubs fan. Of course he couldn't show his face around the city for at least a year after that. He was blamed for the Cubs not winning the World Series. That one ball didn't even affect the at bat. If Alou hadn't caught it, it would have been the same count, and Prior had another shot at striking out/getting the batter out. The score was still 3-0 at that point, he didn't give up 8 runs in that inning. I still don't get your point that he got what he deserved. He did nothing wrong, and I have seen what he did happen at US Cellular, but of course only an idiot fan would do that.

In this case, I can't believe in 05 in Houston that those fans let Uribe dive into the stands without trying to knock the ball out. But I thank them for that.

If a player goes into the stands, all bets are off. You can rip a player's glove off. It might anger the player, but that's the fans territory. The natural reaction of the Astros fans that night was to get out of the way that night, but they couldn't have been called for interference if they had knocked the ball from his glove.

There are a lot of idiot fans who interfer with balls that are in play in the field of play. They aren't thinking they should interfer, they are being idiots, thinking how cool it would be to get a baseball (even among the idiots in Wrigley, in foul territory, you don't have to throw it back). Read the game logs and people call them idiots. Watch the games and the announcers (whatever city you're in) call them idiots and demand their ejection. Ed Farmer's language in the past has been a lot stronger than mine in this thread. Usually it doesn't involve a play that could be an out, but rather an extra base, perhaps a run on the umpire's judgment. When the fans are ejected, if it hurts the home team, they are harassed as they are being taken out by security.

I don't see how anyone can defend a fan interfering with a ball that is in play, especially in the Bartman circumstances. The incident wasn't an accident. It was an overt act.

I haven't defended the people who harassed Steve Bartman, only argued that he should have expected to be harassed under the circumstances. If he weren't being an idiot, he wouldn't be harassed.

I haven't said Steve Bartman was to blame for the Cubs losing. I suspect the Cubs had a mental collapse after the incident that wouldn't have occurred if the incident had not taken place. But it's like the kid the nuns told you about whose eye fell out after he got hit with a snowball. If that's all it took to knock the kid's eye out, it was probably going to fall out anyway.

If the Steve Bartman incident had been a White Sox incident instead of a Cubs incident, with the same results, a part of extending a long championship drought, I have no doubt the harassment would have been there anyway.

As it is, this was just a Cubs fan being stupid and inspiring stupid Cubs fans to harass him.

hi im skot
10-16-2010, 07:04 PM
If a player goes into the stands, all bets are off. You can rip a player's glove off. It might anger the player, but that's the fans territory. The natural reaction of the Astros fans that night was to get out of the way that night, but they couldn't have been called for interference if they had knocked the ball from his glove.

There are a lot of idiot fans who interfer with balls that are in play in the field of play. They aren't thinking they should interfer, they are being idiots, thinking how cool it would be to get a baseball (even among the idiots in Wrigley, in foul territory, you don't have to throw it back). Read the game logs and people call them idiots. Watch the games and the announcers (whatever city you're in) call them idiots and demand their ejection. Ed Farmer's language in the past has been a lot stronger than mine in this thread. Usually it doesn't involve a play that could be an out, but rather an extra base, perhaps a run on the umpire's judgment. When the fans are ejected, if it hurts the home team, they are harassed as they are being taken out by security.

I don't see how anyone can defend a fan interfering with a ball that is in play, especially in the Bartman circumstances. The incident wasn't an accident. It was an overt act.

I haven't defended the people who harassed Steve Bartman, only argued that he should have expected to be harassed under the circumstances. If he weren't being an idiot, he wouldn't be harassed.

I haven't said Steve Bartman was to blame for the Cubs losing. I suspect the Cubs had a mental collapse after the incident that wouldn't have occurred if the incident had not taken place. But it's like the kid the nuns told you about whose eye fell out after he got hit with a snowball. If that's all it took to knock the kid's eye out, it was probably going to fall out anyway.

If the Steve Bartman incident had been a White Sox incident instead of a Cubs incident, with the same results, a part of extending a long championship drought, I have no doubt the harassment would have been there anyway.

As it is, this was just a Cubs fan being stupid and inspiring stupid Cubs fans to harass him.

There's no way you actually believe all the nonsense you've spewed in this thread.

:dtroll:

DirtySox
10-16-2010, 07:10 PM
There's no way you actually believe all the nonsense you've spewed in this thread.

:dtroll:


You wouldn't understand. It's a TDog thing.

SI1020
10-16-2010, 07:19 PM
I don't see how anyone can defend a fan interfering with a ball that is in play, especially in the Bartman circumstances. The incident wasn't an accident. It was an overt act.
Good grief you can't be serious. It wasn't an overt act. It was a reflexive act of instinct that not only Bartman, but a bunch of other fans around him had. Another thing, these seats were not at ground level. It's harder to tell where a fan in the stands space ends and a player's begins. Talk about using a bazooka to kill a gnat.

Frontman
10-16-2010, 07:53 PM
Seriously; they should stop mentioning its anniversary.

slavko
10-16-2010, 08:31 PM
In this case, I can't believe in 05 in Houston that those fans let Uribe dive into the stands without trying to knock the ball out. But I thank them for that.


IIRC, Those first row seats in Houston were a little BELOW field level so that 6'0" (listed but I think he's shorter) Juan Uribe was a couple feet higher than them. Also, there seemed to be some space between the seats and the railing. Also, those fans were sitting down, disheartened, down 3 games- none, unlikely to stand up. Gotta check my DVD of the game.

BTW, an old friend recently admitted to me that he was in that crowd (see video) milling around on Waveland waiting for something he'd been wanting for 58 years (and he's older than that). He walked home after the 8 runs and saw the end of the game on TV. Hasn't given a **** about the Cubs since then. Thanks for the video link.

DumpJerry
10-16-2010, 08:39 PM
In this case, I can't believe in 05 in Houston that those fans let Uribe dive into the stands without trying to knock the ball out. But I thank them for that.
Well, those weren't Astro fans. Seats that close to the field are taken over by MLB. Those people got their tickets from our bud Bud. Nobody is going to jeopardize being cut off from future WS tickets for a $7.00 baseball.

However, back to the theme of this thread, when the Dodgers' Bullpen piled into the stands to duke it out with the Cub fans who were taking their hats, I have it on 100% reliable authority that the "fans" who instigated the incident were employees of the Tribune Company. :rolleyes:

voodoochile
10-16-2010, 08:49 PM
So I guess that makes it only 6 years 364 days since a lifelong baseball fanatic named Steve got one of the rawest deals in the history of raw deals...

Brian26
10-16-2010, 09:02 PM
Good grief you can't be serious. It wasn't an overt act. It was a reflexive act of instinct that not only Bartman, but a bunch of other fans around him had. Another thing, these seats were not at ground level. It's harder to tell where a fan in the stands space ends and a player's begins. Talk about using a bazooka to kill a gnat.

I agree. You see this all the time at games. You see it at the Cell often. People pick up balls since the railing is so low, and sometimes you'll immediately see someone drop the ball and put their hands up like "aw man, what-was-I-thinking!"

The Bartman thing is funny, but, yeah, he just got lost in the moment. There wasn't enough time for him to realize what he was doing.

hi im skot
10-16-2010, 09:09 PM
You wouldn't understand. It's a TDog thing.

Neither would any rational human being.

DumpJerry
10-16-2010, 10:08 PM
You wouldn't understand. It's a TDog thing.

Neither would any rational human being.
Enough of the personal attacks.

Dan H
10-17-2010, 12:12 PM
People keep forgetting how, during that rally, Sammy tried to be Superman and threw the ball to Home instead of the cut-off man. That opened the floodgates.

I blame Dusty Baker for the mess. As soon as I saw Alou yell at the fans and then the camera cut to Prior yelling at LF, I said the Cubs just lost the game because they let a minor situation get in their heads. Baker should have trotted out to the Mound to calm down the young and inexperienced Mark Prior to get his head back in it and to give the other guys a moment or two to get the incident behind them. Instead, he pulled a Jerry Manuel and sat in the dugout and let the players spin the foul ball in their heads and allowed the Marlins take advantage of the distraction.

One thing Cub fans always overlook when they blame this game for keeping them from The Promised Land is that it tied up the NLCS. They still had a home game the next day with Kerry Wood pitching. They even had a lead at one point in Game 7.......

But yeah, the TV guys announcing the "Cubs are X number of outs from the World Series" during game 6 was enough for me to take my CIA-issued Cyanide pill.

I agree completely about Baker. They had five outs to go and seemed to forget about that. He should have went out to slow things down, and get his team back into focus. As far as blaming Bartman goes, what happened in the other 101 years?

DumpJerry
10-17-2010, 01:52 PM
I agree completely about Baker. They had five outs to go and seemed to forget about that. He should have went out to slow things down, and get his team back into focus. As far as blaming Bartman goes, what happened in the other 101 years?
The same thing that happened that night.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_yKSo5xPjLpM/TBgpI5F5XNI/AAAAAAAANLA/QcKjQQwWvU4/s1600/ozzie-guillen-choke.jpg

cws05champ
10-17-2010, 08:07 PM
I agree. You see this all the time at games. You see it at the Cell often. People pick up balls since the railing is so low, and sometimes you'll immediately see someone drop the ball and put their hands up like "aw man, what-was-I-thinking!"

The Bartman thing is funny, but, yeah, he just got lost in the moment. There wasn't enough time for him to realize what he was doing.
I think most people that go to games are not die hards like most on here....so it's easy to say we wouldn't do that. Because most of us on here have been to many games and understand the ground rules very well. Just your run of the mill person who goes that is not into baseball that much would be apt to have a quick reaction to pick up a ball or go for a foul ball (even though they are told not to interfere before the game).

Myself, if I'm any position close to the field like that I have a conscience thought about it before the game and tell my family the rules.

Anyway, I'm glad it worked out the way it did for the Cubs and their fans...couldn't have happened to a better bunch of band wagon fans!! I was at work function in the suburbs in a big ballroom. After the presentations they turned the game on two huge projections screens around the 6th inning. I felt ill....but started to feel better about a half hour later :D: Only me and two other people out of about 200 people had big smiles on their faces after the inning. Some friends that I knew were die hard Cub fans I felt really bad for, but whenever you meet a Chad or Trixie that sympathy quickly fades.

jdm2662
10-18-2010, 03:34 PM
Seriously; they should stop mentioning its anniversary.

As long as Cubbie loving tool David Kaplan hosts CTL, it's going to happen.

Frontman
10-18-2010, 06:38 PM
As long as Cubbie loving tool David Kaplan hosts CTL, it's going to happen.

Even national media mention it. ESPN and MLB Network bring it up every year as well.

Leave the man alone already.

Smokey Burg
10-19-2010, 01:15 PM
My interest with the cubs had been on the wane for several years before this incident occurred. After this incident when an entire MLB franchise and a major media corporation blamed a single, little, nerdy guy for nearly a century of futility, I decided I had enough. I could not tolerate the cubs and the Tribune Co. haranguing on a guy who just wanted to watch his favorite team in a playoff game. Made me sick.

Mendoza Line
10-19-2010, 01:39 PM
I think the most sickening thing is that TV stations and newspapers made sure everyone knew his name the next morning, knowing full well that some idiots might try to hurt him.

soxfanatlanta
10-19-2010, 02:48 PM
Will Leitch devoted a chapter to that in his book, Are We Winning? He did a fantastic job imagining what was going through Bartman's head that night.

I feel for Bartman.

MtGrnwdSoxFan
10-19-2010, 03:16 PM
I think the most sickening thing is that TV stations and newspapers made sure everyone knew his name the next morning, knowing full well that some idiots might try to hurt him.

Didn't someone also publish his address too?

There's no excuse for that kind of irresponsible, ****-stirring journalism, especially when dealing with a fanbase that WOULD physically hurt him over a goddamn baseball game.

What's done is done, people need to remember, they have a GREAT chance in '07 to make it up, and what did they do? **** their pants in 3 games to an inferior team.

downstairs
10-22-2010, 05:07 PM
Didn't someone also publish his address too?

There's no excuse for that kind of irresponsible, ****-stirring journalism, especially when dealing with a fanbase that WOULD physically hurt him over a goddamn baseball game.

What's done is done, people need to remember, they have a GREAT chance in '07 to make it up, and what did they do? **** their pants in 3 games to an inferior team.

And the Cubs should have stood up big-time for their fan. Not just off-handedly, but with a press release and/or ad in the Trib. And they should have made Alou sign it too (and I bet he would, as he later said that it wasn't nearly the biggest deal in that inning).

If its a player, like Buckner in 1986, I can see letting him get whatever he gets. (And they forgave him in 2004.)

downstairs
10-22-2010, 05:14 PM
Oh, side point for those that care: The Bartman 30 for 30 that was supposed to play next Tuesday has been delayed.

While I'd never watch a documentary on Bartman usually, I'm totally giving this one a chance because the 30 for 30 films have been absolutely stellar- even ones with subjects I didn't know or care about.

(Even if you don't like NASCAR, check out the Tim Richmond one. Trust me, very emotional.)