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View Full Version : Minneapolis Star Tribune on Reasons Twins Will "Pare Down"


Nellie_Fox
10-11-2010, 01:48 AM
Payroll reality about to hit the Twins.

http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/104682954.html

Hitmen77
10-11-2010, 10:07 AM
Interesting read. I didn't realize Mauer was going to get an $11 million raise next year. Plus they have a lot of arbitration eligible guys. I'd imagine that Delmon Young will get a nice raise.

....still, I'll believe that the Twins have fallen behind us talent- and performance-wise when I see it.

guillensdisciple
10-11-2010, 12:36 PM
Truly goes to show you how well we did this year. We have our own talent- and it really needs to get over the Twins hump. Jake Peavy is the X-factor. WE need a fiery leader like him in the clubhouse.

samurai_sox
10-11-2010, 03:03 PM
I threw up in my mouth a little when I read one of the comments that said the Twins should go after Paul Konerko.

SoxSpeed22
10-11-2010, 03:30 PM
Target field did increase their revenue. The same thing could happen to them that also happened to the Indians in the 90s. The Jake gave them revenue to work with, they had to pay their core players and then eventually just maxed out their revenues.

JermaineDye05
10-11-2010, 03:36 PM
Truly goes to show you how well we did this year. We have our own talent- and it really needs to get over the Twins hump. Jake Peavy is the X-factor. WE need a fiery leader like him in the clubhouse.

We need him on the field more than we do in the clubhouse. Hopefully he can come back healthy next year.

Red Barchetta
10-11-2010, 03:52 PM
I threw up in my mouth a little when I read one of the comments that said the Twins should go after Paul Konerko.

He is buddies with Thome! :?:

TDog
10-11-2010, 04:13 PM
I threw up in my mouth a little when I read one of the comments that said the Twins should go after Paul Konerko.

I suggested the Twins would go after Paul Konerko last week, I think, in the thread about what will be needed for the Sox to catch the Twins. For all the complaints about the White Sox being gutless, for lack of a more graphic term, the Twins go after ex-White Sox players the way White Sox go after ex-Indians, not that Rauch fits in with that group, but they went after Crede and Thome and while Cabrera wouldn't sign as a free agent, they picked him up in a trade with the A's.

I believe the White Sox need to re-sign Konerko. But as big a Konerko fan as I am, if he does sign with the Twins, I hope he has a miserably bad season, especially against the White Sox.

DumpJerry
10-11-2010, 04:54 PM
If I was a Twins' fan, that list of free agents would keep me up at night. They could lose some serious talent by Opening Day.












Oh wait. We're talking about the Twins. They have 34 future first ballot HoFers at AA and AAA ready to move up.:mad:

GoSox2K3
10-12-2010, 05:41 PM
I suggested the Twins would go after Paul Konerko last week, I think, in the thread about what will be needed for the Sox to catch the Twins. For all the complaints about the White Sox being gutless, for lack of a more graphic term, the Twins go after ex-White Sox players the way White Sox go after ex-Indians, not that Rauch fits in with that group, but they went after Crede and Thome and while Cabrera wouldn't sign as a free agent, they picked him up in a trade with the A's.

I believe the White Sox need to re-sign Konerko. But as big a Konerko fan as I am, if he does sign with the Twins, I hope he has a miserably bad season, especially against the White Sox.

If the Twins knew right now that Morneau's injury is career threatening, then I could see this happening.

But, i'd guess that at this point they aren't assuming that Morneau is finished. If that's the case, I don't know if they'd spend a lot of $$$ on Konerko when they're paying Morneau $14M for each of the next 3 seasons.

soltrain21
10-12-2010, 05:46 PM
Truly goes to show you how well we did this year. We have our own talent- and it really needs to get over the Twins hump. Jake Peavy is the X-factor. WE need a fiery leader like him in the clubhouse.

How does this show that we did well this year? I must be missing that.

guillensdisciple
10-12-2010, 05:54 PM
How does this show that we did well this year? I must be missing that.

Because we improved significantly from the year prior and are not really taking a hit with major players coming off the books. Minnesota could literally lose their complete rotation and some pivotal hitters soon. We've revamped our staff with Jackson and have Peavy coming off the DL for next year. We're looking up, while they're looking down. In a way, they really had to take advantage of their situation this year and we had a process of getting comfortable in our own skin.

DumpJerry
10-12-2010, 06:00 PM
Because we improved significantly from the year prior and are not really taking a hit with major players coming off the books. Minnesota could literally lose their complete rotation and some pivotal hitters soon. We've revamped our staff with Jackson and have Peavy coming off the DL for next year. We're looking up, while they're looking down. In a way, they really had to take advantage of their situation this year and we had a process of getting comfortable in our own skin.
See the bolded statement. We've been saying this for years about the Twins. When will it actually happen?
They lost Torii Hunter. So what?
They lost Johan. Did anyone notice?
They lost Joe Nathan. Tickle me, Elmo.

Dan H
10-12-2010, 06:07 PM
Right now I don't care what happens with the Twins. I just want to see the White Sox take care of their own business. And they have a lot of business to take care of.

soltrain21
10-12-2010, 06:10 PM
Because we improved significantly from the year prior and are not really taking a hit with major players coming off the books. Minnesota could literally lose their complete rotation and some pivotal hitters soon. We've revamped our staff with Jackson and have Peavy coming off the DL for next year. We're looking up, while they're looking down. In a way, they really had to take advantage of their situation this year and we had a process of getting comfortable in our own skin.

How are we looking up? We don't have a 1b, C or rightfielder. The jury is still out on 3b, too.

And that's not even addressing our bullpen.

DumpJerry
10-12-2010, 06:12 PM
Right now I don't care what happens with the Twins. I just want to see the White Sox take care of their own business. And they have a lot of business to take care of.
Bingo. Just win your games and it does not matter what the other teams are doing.

guillensdisciple
10-12-2010, 06:12 PM
See the bolded statement. We've been saying this for years about the Twins. When will it actually happen?
They lost Torii Hunter. So what?
They lost Johan. Did anyone notice?
They lost Joe Nathan. Tickle me, Elmo.


I have no valid rebuke for this except that sooner or later something has to give. It's true with almost everything in life. It gave with the Indians, it gave with the Reds of old with the A's of old etc etc. Unless you have money the likes of Yankees and Red Sox it is impossible to continue to outlast your true potential. Sure they have Gardenhire and a farm system that continues to churn out gold, but they can't continue replacing their best with young ones. Not everyone is going to be as good as the prior one, and not every prospect is a hidden gem.

Their futility in the playoffs is a true showing of their strength, and it is obvious that they are not that great of a team. Mediocre at best, hell like we were throughout the year.

Maybe they were better than us last year, but I am a firm believer that we beat ourselves not they beat us, but that does not who in the standings so I'll let that run its' course.

Again though, one day the Royals will have a solid run- just like the Rays. It might not be for the next 10 years but something always gives. The White Sox seem to be establishing themselves as a power team in the league, with money becoming a non issue, or so it seems. I see us as one of the more stable powers in the A.L. Central. If we can improve our depth in the the farm system we will have something special with a few added signings through free agency (which should not be a problem since our wallets have become increasingly heavier).

DumpJerry
10-12-2010, 06:16 PM
I have no valid rebuke for this except that sooner or later something has to give. It's true with almost everything in life. It gave with the Indians, it gave with the Reds of old with the A's of old etc etc. Unless you have money the likes of Yankees and Red Sox it is impossible to continue to outlast your true potential. Sure they have Gardenhire and a farm system that continues to churn out gold, but they can't continue replacing their best with young ones. Not everyone is going to be as good as the prior one, and not every prospect is a hidden gem.

Their futility in the playoffs is a true showing of their strength, and it is obvious that they are not that great of a team. Mediocre at best, hell like we were throughout the year.

Maybe they were better than us last year, but I am a firm believer that we beat ourselves not they beat us, but that does not who in the standings so I'll let that run its' course.

Again though, one day the Royals will have a solid run- just like the Rays. It might not be for the next 10 years but something always gives. The White Sox seem to be establishing themselves as a power team in the league, with money becoming a non issue, or so it seems. I see us as one of the more stable powers in the A.L. Central. If we can improve our depth in the the farm system we will have something special with a few added signings through free agency (which should not be a problem since our wallets have become increasingly heavier).
It has been said here and elsewhere many times that the Twins are not like other MLB teams. The Twins and the Rays have player developement down to a science. Because of this, they can lose studs and keep on chugging along. Other teams use their prospects to trade for guys who might be on the downward swing of their careers. This is why teams like the Indians go so quickly from knocking on the door of the World Series (2007) to losing 93 games (2010) in only three years. The Red Sox cannot be looked at as a team on the downward spiral based on this year since they got hammered with an extremely high number of season-ending injuries to key players.

guillensdisciple
10-12-2010, 06:18 PM
How are we looking up? We don't have a 1b, C or rightfielder. The jury is still out on 3b, too.

And that's not even addressing our bullpen.


Read the article and compare the issues we're facing to ours. Their rotation is literally collapsing in terms of who is leaving. Their bullpen is losing Guerrier and Capps, who were pivotal for them.

Our rotation stays, we lose Putz and Jenks. Santos is good, we will most likely resign Thornton, Sale is there if needed for an extra year of relief, and with the money that is coming off the books signing another reliever will probably be the case, or resigning some of the ones we're losing.

3b is locked in my opinion since Morel seems to be the organizations fit. Right field and 1b will be adressed through the money that will be coming off the books.

The case here is that the White Sox have the money to take these hits- the Twins are really really strapped and they're taking HUGE hits. We're taking ours too but not to their extent and not for such a long period of time (since Mauer is signed for a very long time and will gut them financially).

guillensdisciple
10-12-2010, 06:21 PM
It has been said here and elsewhere many times that the Twins are not like other MLB teams. The Twins and the Rays have player developement down to a science. Because of this, they can lose studs and keep on chugging along. Other teams use their prospects to trade for guys who might be on the downward swing of their careers. This is why teams like the Indians go so quickly from knocking on the door of the World Series (2007) to losing 93 games (2010) in only three years. The Red Sox cannot be looked at as a team on the downward spiral based on this year since they got hammered with an extremely high number of season-ending injuries to key players.

I can't disagree with you on any of this, except I will claim that the Rays have only shown two years of really good baseball and I don't think they're a good example of it. The Twins I agree with 100 percent, but when was the last time you saw a team have a 20 or 30 year stretch of great baseball with limited pockets and great player development. I just think there comes a point where the lower end of the draft bites you in the ass and player development does not overcome player talent.

soltrain21
10-12-2010, 06:54 PM
Read the article and compare the issues we're facing to ours. Their rotation is literally collapsing in terms of who is leaving. Their bullpen is losing Guerrier and Capps, who were pivotal for them.

Our rotation stays, we lose Putz and Jenks. Santos is good, we will most likely resign Thornton, Sale is there if needed for an extra year of relief, and with the money that is coming off the books signing another reliever will probably be the case, or resigning some of the ones we're losing.

3b is locked in my opinion since Morel seems to be the organizations fit. Right field and 1b will be adressed through the money that will be coming off the books.

The case here is that the White Sox have the money to take these hits- the Twins are really really strapped and they're taking HUGE hits. We're taking ours too but not to their extent and not for such a long period of time (since Mauer is signed for a very long time and will gut them financially).

Most people think the White Sox are cutting costs, and KW's comments seem to fit that mold.

khan
10-13-2010, 01:31 PM
Read the article and compare the issues we're facing to ours. Their rotation is literally collapsing in terms of who is leaving. Their bullpen is losing Guerrier and Capps, who were pivotal for them.
Where have I read the "twins-are-falling-apart" story before?

It SOUNDS familiar, but I can't be sure.....

Our rotation stays, we lose Putz and Jenks. Santos is good, we will most likely resign Thornton, Sale is there if needed for an extra year of relief, and with the money that is coming off the books signing another reliever will probably be the case, or resigning some of the ones we're losing.
1. You mean the rotation that was worse than the twins' this year, despite a $50M pricetag will stay together? The one with the pre-injured $16M man, and the $14M pitcher with the 4.28 ERA and the $8.5M man with the 5+ ERA in the NL?

2. Losing a closer and a RH setup man is neither easy to overcome, nor cheap. [See the linebrink contract as an example of the an attempt to fix this issue via FA.]

3. I wouldn't call Santos' 1.53 WHIP as being "good." He's certainly promising, but let's not hand out All Star appearances, nor busts at Cooperstown-yet.

4. Thornton is 34 years old, and isn't getting any better or younger. I prefer Sale to be the eventual replacement for Buehrle.

In sum, there are as many questions about the SOX pitching staff and the team in general as there are about the twins, IMO.

3b is locked in my opinion since Morel seems to be the organizations fit. Right field and 1b will be adressed through the money that will be coming off the books.
This is certainly hopeful, but I have my reasons to doubt that this will come to pass. [When was there a ex-SOX farmhand hitter to come through the system, and actually perform? And no, Beckham doesn't count for this question.]

The case here is that the White Sox have the money to take these hits- the Twins are really really strapped and they're taking HUGE hits. We're taking ours too but not to their extent and not for such a long period of time (since Mauer is signed for a very long time and will gut them financially).
I can understand why some might view it this way, but there are reasons to believe otherwise as well, IMO. We've seen and heard and read the "demise-of-the-twins" stories over and over and over this past decade, and they still keep kicking the SOX's asses.

KMcMahon817
10-13-2010, 01:44 PM
How are we looking up? We don't have a 1b, C or rightfielder. The jury is still out on 3b, too.

And that's not even addressing our bullpen.

We have a rightfielder. He hit 26 home runs and drove in 87 runs this year.

slavko
10-13-2010, 01:46 PM
Their futility in the playoffs is a true showing of their strength, and it is obvious that they are not that great of a team. Mediocre at best, hell like we were throughout the year.

Again though, one day the Royals will have a solid run- just like the Rays. It might not be for the next 10 years but something always gives.


I've become a believer on the first one. I wasn't before this year, but I'm tired of ignoring the facts.

I've been looking at steady improvement in KC for a while. They're due for a breakthrough. Those fans need it.

Rikirk
10-17-2010, 05:04 PM
PK joining the Twins would be a black day, and a knife in the back.