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LITTLE NELL
09-24-2010, 05:13 PM
As of today the Twins have the best record in MLB, who would have thunk it.
I hope they continue their winning ways against the Tigers or else we may be looking
at 3rd place.

Red Barchetta
09-24-2010, 05:20 PM
To be honest, 2nd or 3rd place doesn't mean anything to me. Of course, I would like to see the SOX have a winning record, however both the SOX and Tigers will be watching the Twins play in the post season.

The Twins have quietly put together a very good season that might even gain them home field advantage over the Yankees and/or Rays. Hopefully they won't get swept out of the ALDS like that did in their last two playoff appearances.

SOX ADDICT '73
09-24-2010, 05:33 PM
Hopefully they won't get swept out of the ALDS like that did in their last two playoff appearances.
On the contrary, I am hoping for this to happen with positively every fiber of my being.

cards press box
09-24-2010, 06:38 PM
On the contrary, I am hoping for this to happen with positively every fiber of my being.

And I think it will happen. The Yankees play three at home against Boston this weekend and then finish the regular season with three at Toronto and three at Boston. Tampa plays three at home against Seattle this weekend, three at home against Baltimore and then finish the regular season with four at Kansas City. The Twins play three games at Detroit, three games at Kansas City and then four at home against Toronto to end the regular season.

I like Tampa's chances to not only win the AL East but to have the best record in the league. In that scenario, the Twins would play the wild card winner, the Yankees. And I expect that the Yankees will beat them yet again but will then lose to Tampa in the ALCS. By the way, a Yankee sweep of the Twins would give Ron Gardenhire a sparkling 6-27 record in the post-season.

Look for a rematch of the 2008 World Series: Tampa v. Philadelphia.

MtGrnwdSoxFan
09-24-2010, 06:47 PM
And I think it will happen. The Yankees play three at home against Boston this weekend and then finish the regular season with three at Toronto and three at Boston. Tampa plays three at home against Seattle this weekend, three at home against Baltimore and then finish the regular season with four at Kansas City. The Twins play three games at Detroit, three games at Kansas City and then four at home against Toronto to end the regular season.

I like Tampa's chances to not only win the AL East but to have the best record in the league. In that scenario, the Twins would play the wild card winner, the Yankees. And I expect that the Yankees will beat them yet again but will then lose to Tampa in the ALCS. By the way, a Yankee sweep of the Twins would give Ron Gardenhire a sparkling 6-27 record in the post-season.

Look for a rematch of the 2008 World Series: Tampa v. Philadelphia.

Gardy's record would be 6-21 if that happened....he's currently 6-18.

Tampa has the cupcake schedule to end all cupcake schedules to close out the season. I'd be surprised if they didn't end up with the best record in the AL.

Although, I hope Philly doesn't make it out of the NL...I'd rather see the Reds or the Giants (or the Rockies if they can pull their heads out of their asses).

Joliet_Sox
09-24-2010, 07:05 PM
Twins = perennial 1 and done.

MAYBE if Morneau was healthy and MAYBE if they get lucky and play the Rays round 1 they MIGHT advance to the ALCS, but the Yankees own them and that will not change this year.

Go Rangers!!!

Tragg
09-24-2010, 07:48 PM
Hopefully they won't get swept out of the ALDS like that did in their last two playoff appearances.

I hope they do exactly that.
**** the Twins.

SoxSpeed22
09-24-2010, 07:53 PM
Go Tampa. Win the division so the Yankees can kick the Twins asses in the ALDS.

g0g0
09-24-2010, 07:56 PM
As long as Boston and NY are out of the picture I'm fine with anybody winning it this year who's in the mix right now. Would love the Padres to get off their ass and finish strong. How much would a Padres/Twins series kill TV revenue LOL!

Red Barchetta
09-24-2010, 08:35 PM
I hate the Twins as much as anyone on this board, however its no wonder there is such an east coast media bias if the Central Division can't put up any post-season competition. With the Rays now a contender, I'm sure the "great minds" out east are trying to get the playoffs expanded so the AL East could have 3 teams in the post season and Boston can rejoin the party.

Bob Roarman
09-25-2010, 07:53 AM
As long as Boston and NY are out of the picture I'm fine with anybody winning it this year who's in the mix right now. Would love the Padres to get off their ass and finish strong. How much would a Padres/Twins series kill TV revenue LOL!

Maybe as much as White Sox/Astros? LOLZ!

doublem23
09-25-2010, 08:25 AM
Maybe as much as White Sox/Astros? LOLZ!

For accuracy's sake, you could have at least picked the lowest rated Series of all time, Red Sox/Rockies, but then that wouldn't be "edgy" enough, or whatever shtick you're trying to play.

Frater Perdurabo
09-25-2010, 08:31 AM
There would be some value in the Twins winning it all.

It would force the Sox to recognize that the Twins are a vastly superior team: better players, better coaches, better scouts, better fundamentals, etc.

It might force the Sox to realize they need to get serious and not make dumb decisions like relying on Mark Kotsay as the primary DH.

Bob Roarman
09-25-2010, 09:01 AM
For accuracy's sake, you could have at least picked the lowest rated Series of all time, Red Sox/Rockies, but then that wouldn't be "edgy" enough, or whatever shtick you're trying to play.

No man, that's not it at all. I must have missed the e-mail, the memo, the letter that gave the order to hate the Twins to the point of making statements that even if it completely incriminates the White Sox as well go ahead and do it anyway just because. It might be stupid and hypocritical, but go ahead. I just don't see how we have any room to criticize any other team on something like that.

SOX ADDICT '73
09-25-2010, 10:23 AM
It would force the Sox to recognize that the Twins are a vastly superior team: better players, better coaches, better scouts, better fundamentals, etc.
If they haven't figured this out by now, there's no helping them.

Bottom line, there's only one team whose World Series Championship would cause me more anguish than the Twins, and that's the Cubs. I'd be totally okay with the Yankees and Red Sox taking turns for the next ten years as long as those other two teams remain failures.

LongLiveFisk
09-25-2010, 10:46 AM
Well I guess they've earned it after the way they have played lately, but that doesn't mean I don't want them to fall on their asses in the playoffs.

GoSox2K3
09-25-2010, 11:22 AM
They've earned it. They've won a ton of games without their star closer and without an MVP-caliber player.

Maybe the Sox can respond this time by building a better organization instead of constantly kissing the Twins' asses over how great they are.

If part of their answer for this year was Mark Teahen at 3B and Mark Kotsay at DH, that's not even close to being on the right track.

AnkleSox
09-25-2010, 11:28 AM
I hope they do exactly that.
**** the Twins.

I'm on this bandwagon.

**** the Twins.

cards press box
09-25-2010, 12:24 PM
Gardy's record would be 6-21 if that happened....he's currently 6-18.

Tampa has the cupcake schedule to end all cupcake schedules to close out the season. I'd be surprised if they didn't end up with the best record in the AL.

Although, I hope Philly doesn't make it out of the NL...I'd rather see the Reds or the Giants (or the Rockies if they can pull their heads out of their asses).

Yeah, you're right -- Gardenhire's post-season record is 6-18. Sorry for the mistake. In looking at the Twins' results in the playoffs in the Gardy era, I notice two things. First, the Twins have certainly done well in the regular season in this era, no doubt about it. Second, it is equally obvious that The Twins have been a complete and utter bust in the post-season in the same era.

In 2002, the Twins beat Oakland in the ALDS 3-2 but lost to L.A. 1-4 for a combined mark of 4-6. That, believe it or not, is the high water mark in the Gardenhire era.

In 2003, the Twins went 1-3 against the Yankees. In 2004, the Twins once again went 1-3 against the Yankees. In 2006, the Twins went 0-3 against Oakland. In 2009, the Twins went 0-3 against the Yankees.

The Twins are 6-18 in the postseason under Gardy and an amazing 2-9 against the Yankees, their likely opponent in the ALDS this year.

If the Twins bow out again in the first round, I wonder if any prominent sabremetricians will start to wonder why Minnesota does well in the regular season but not the post-season. I have my own theory -- teams that dominate in the post-season always seem to have some starter (or starters) pitching at a Cy Young level. Jose Contreras certainly pitched that way for the Sox in the second half of 2005 and in the post-season that year. In some of the Gardy years, the Twins had Johan Santana (who incidentally was the winning pitcher in both of the Twins' post-season victories over the Yankees in the Gardy era) but the Yankees just had more quality depth in their rotation.

This year's Twins have Francisco Liriano, a fine pitcher but not the dominant one he used to be. After that, they have Carl Pavano and Brian Duensing. None of those guys are in the conversation for the Cy Young. CC Sabathia is and David Price is, too.

I would take the Tampa rotation for sure and probably the Yankees rotation over the Twins' starters. And, once again, I expect to see the Twins bow out early.

tstrike2000
09-25-2010, 01:48 PM
Never liked the Twins and never will. Please go 3 games and out. Thank you.

LoveYourSuit
09-25-2010, 02:28 PM
I cannot cheer for the Yankees, the same for the Twins.

That is going to be hard for me.

Thome might make me want to cheer for the Twins when the time comes.

WhiteSox5187
09-25-2010, 03:04 PM
While the Twins might have the best record in baseball they are not the best team. The Yankees and Rays are far better than the Twins are and with Liriano potentially hurt, their only "shut down" starter might be gone. If the Twins pitch like they did against us, it will be three and out. The Rays, Yankees or Rangers won't consistently leave the bases loaded.

CubsfansareDRUNK
09-25-2010, 06:02 PM
I hate the Twins and want them to lose as much as the next guy, but I really don't think there's any reason to believe they'll just get swept out in the first round. They're hot as hell and they'll carry that momentum into the playoffs.

WhiteSox5187
09-25-2010, 06:51 PM
I hate the Twins and want them to lose as much as the next guy, but I really don't think there's any reason to believe they'll just get swept out in the first round. They're hot as hell and they'll carry that momentum into the playoffs.

The law of averages dictates that they will have to cool off and they have had a lot of lucky win and have been feasting against a lot of bottom feeders, they won't be doing that in the playoffs. Their pitching leaves a LOT to be desired, if Liriano lets guys on (like he did against us) they're going to come around and score.

SoxandtheCityTee
09-25-2010, 07:26 PM
Is it really that hard to understand that some people, as I do, just hate the Twinkies, and will continue to do so even (especially!) if they sweep the ALDS, the ALCS and the World Series? I didn't get a memo, it's not because I'm registered at WSI, it doesn't mean I'm incapable of recognizing baseball talent, and I'm not asking anyone else to hate them. I would hate them even if I were the only person on earth to do so -- which will never happen. It's a matter of personal taste. I won't tell anyone else how to feel. Maybe people could just root for whoever they want and we can root against whoever we want. For crying out loud.

Patrick134
09-25-2010, 08:15 PM
I cannot cheer for the Yankees, the same for the Twins.

That is going to be hard for me.

Thome might make me want to cheer for the Twins when the time comes.


I dunno. when the yankees win, it's like ho hum, they bought another one, so it gets forgotten pretty much.

guillensdisciple
09-25-2010, 10:13 PM
They couldn't make enough middle finger smileys to show my love for the Twins.

SOXSINCE'70
09-26-2010, 08:05 PM
Look for a rematch of the 2008 World Series: Tampa v. Philadelphia.

I hope the result is the same:

GO PHILLIES!!!:bandance::bandance:

Oblong
09-27-2010, 09:51 AM
.

If the Twins bow out again in the first round, I wonder if any prominent sabremetricians will start to wonder why Minnesota does well in the regular season but not the post-season. I have my own theory -- teams that dominate in the post-season always seem to have some starter (or starters) pitching at a Cy Young level. Jose Contreras certainly pitched that way for the Sox in the second half of 2005 and in the post-season that year. In some of the Gardy years, the Twins had Johan Santana (who incidentally was the winning pitcher in both of the Twins' post-season victories over the Yankees in the Gardy era) but the Yankees just had more quality depth in their rotation.

This year's Twins have Francisco Liriano, a fine pitcher but not the dominant one he used to be. After that, they have Carl Pavano and Brian Duensing. None of those guys are in the conversation for the Cy Young. CC Sabathia is and David Price is, too.

I would take the Tampa rotation for sure and probably the Yankees rotation over the Twins' starters. And, once again, I expect to see the Twins bow out early.

I don't think it takes a sabermetrician. It's won't be a common theme or thread. The 2002 team is not the same as the 2009 or 2010 team. You have to look at each series on an individual basis. In 2002 they lost to the team that would win the WS. In 2003 they lost to the Yankees who won 101 games during the season. In 2004 they again lost a 101 win Yankee team, 2 of the 3 losses were by 1 run (one walk off, and the other in 11 innings). The 2006 loss was the real stinker because I didn't think Oakland was very good. Last year they again lost to another great Yankee team after winning game 163 on a Tues night, extra inning game, then flying to play the next afternoon.

I don't think it's because of a "Twins way" of playing things, it's just the way it happens. Too many good Yankee teams in their way. In a short series all it takes is 1 or 2 hitters to get cold or a bullpen guy to blow up and the series turns. I won't call it luck, it's baseball.

cards press box
09-27-2010, 10:08 AM
I don't think it takes a sabermetrician. It's won't be a common theme or thread. The 2002 team is not the same as the 2009 or 2010 team. You have to look at each series on an individual basis. In 2002 they lost to the team that would win the WS. In 2003 they lost to the Yankees who won 101 games during the season. In 2004 they again lost a 101 win Yankee team, 2 of the 3 losses were by 1 run (one walk off, and the other in 11 innings). The 2006 loss was the real stinker because I didn't think Oakland was very good. Last year they again lost to another great Yankee team after winning game 163 on a Tues night, extra inning game, then flying to play the next afternoon.

I don't think it's because of a "Twins way" of playing things, it's just the way it happens. Too many good Yankee teams in their way. In a short series all it takes is 1 or 2 hitters to get cold or a bullpen guy to blow up and the series turns. I won't call it luck, it's baseball.

But any team that makes the playoffs faces other teams that are very good. The 2005 White Sox, for example, faced a Boston team that won 95 games and then faced an L.A. team that also won 95 games.

I agree that every year is different but 6-18 (and 2-12 since 2003) may well be a trend. The 2010 Twins are the best team in the Joe Mauer era and I'll be interested to see if the trend continues.

gogosox675
09-27-2010, 11:13 AM
I don't think it takes a sabermetrician. It's won't be a common theme or thread. The 2002 team is not the same as the 2009 or 2010 team. You have to look at each series on an individual basis. In 2002 they lost to the team that would win the WS. In 2003 they lost to the Yankees who won 101 games during the season. In 2004 they again lost a 101 win Yankee team, 2 of the 3 losses were by 1 run (one walk off, and the other in 11 innings). The 2006 loss was the real stinker because I didn't think Oakland was very good. Last year they again lost to another great Yankee team after winning game 163 on a Tues night, extra inning game, then flying to play the next afternoon.

I don't think it's because of a "Twins way" of playing things, it's just the way it happens. Too many good Yankee teams in their way. In a short series all it takes is 1 or 2 hitters to get cold or a bullpen guy to blow up and the series turns. I won't call it luck, it's baseball.

That's what I thought, too. I remember thinking they had a chance to make some noise in the playoffs that year and they fell flat on their face. I guess that's the Twins for you. :D:

Oblong
09-27-2010, 11:40 AM
But any team that makes the playoffs faces other teams that are very good. The 2005 White Sox, for example, faced a Boston team that won 95 games and then faced an L.A. team that also won 95 games.

I agree that every year is different but 6-18 (and 2-12 since 2003) may well be a trend. The 2010 Twins are the best team in the Joe Mauer era and I'll be interested to see if the trend continues.

I don't see how it can be a trend when you look at the turnover over the years. Heck, the guys left from the 2006 team are:

Mauer
Morneau (probably out the rest of year)
Punto
Cuddyer
Kubel
Liriano
Neshak
Crain
Guerrier
Nathan (out this year).

Of the 8 guys that will play, 4 position players and 4 pitchers.

It's not basketball or hockey where a few guys can really dominate the makeup of a team and flow of the game. What happened 4, 6, 7, and 8 years ago is irrelevant in evaluating a 2010 team.


That said, the expectations this year are high for the Twins and if they do not do something serious in the playoffs then their fans have every right to complain. They are 1 game out of having the best record in baseball and have had 10 days or so to set their rotation up and prepare for the playoffs.

cards press box
09-27-2010, 12:09 PM
I don't see how it can be a trend when you look at the turnover over the years. Heck, the guys left from the 2006 team are:

Mauer
Morneau (probably out the rest of year)
Punto
Cuddyer
Kubel
Liriano
Neshak
Crain
Guerrier
Nathan (out this year).

Of the 8 guys that will play, 4 position players and 4 pitchers.

It's not basketball or hockey where a few guys can really dominate the makeup of a team and flow of the game. What happened 4, 6, 7, and 8 years ago is irrelevant in evaluating a 2010 team.


That said, the expectations this year are high for the Twins and if they do not do something serious in the playoffs then their fans have every right to complain. They are 1 game out of having the best record in baseball and have had 10 days or so to set their rotation up and prepare for the playoffs.

But there are two constants in all these Twins teams: Ron Gardenhire and upper Twins management. For years, analysts wondered how Billy Beane's A's teams did so well in the regular season but poorly in the playoffs. Beane himself offered the earthy explanation that "my **** doesn't work in the playoffs." Is the same true with the Twins and their philosophy of how to build a ballclub?

In other words, I wonder whether the construction of these Twins' clubs, particularly in the starting rotation has anything to do with their constant early exits from the playoffs. By the way, I do not discount the notion that the Twins have just had the bad luck to draw the Yankees a number of times. Then again, other teams have drawn the Yankees -- the Angels come readily to mind -- and have defeated them. The Twins just haven't.

jdm2662
09-27-2010, 12:25 PM
But there are two constants in all these Twins teams: Ron Gardenhire and upper Twins management. For years, analysts wondered how Billy Beane's A's teams did so well in the regular season but poorly in the playoffs. Beane himself offered the earthy explanation that "my **** doesn't work in the playoffs." Is the same true with the Twins and their philosophy of how to build a ballclub?

In other words, I wonder whether the construction of these Twins' clubs, particularly in the starting rotation has anything to do with their constant early exits from the playoffs. By the way, I do not discount the notion that the Twins have just had the bad luck to draw the Yankees a number of times. Then again, other teams have drawn the Yankees -- the Angels come readily to mind -- and have defeated them. The Twins just haven't.

In 2006, Radke was pitching with his shoulder connected by gum, Liarano, who flat out dominated the league and was a big reason that started their run, was hurt, and their hitting took the series off. I remember Santana pitching into the 9th inning in game 1 down 2-1 before giving up a HR to Frank in the ninth.

In other years, the Twins dominated their division, and did enough against everyone else to win the division. Come playoff time, the teams they dominated were no where to be found. The Twins pounded the division yet again this year, but those teams won't be around come playoff time. We will see if the hex is still there.

asindc
09-27-2010, 01:28 PM
...Is the same true with the Twins and their philosophy of how to build a ballclub?

In other words, I wonder whether the construction of these Twins' clubs, particularly in the starting rotation has anything to do with their constant early exits from the playoffs. By the way, I do not discount the notion that the Twins have just had the bad luck to draw the Yankees a number of times. Then again, other teams have drawn the Yankees -- the Angels come readily to mind -- and have defeated them. The Twins just haven't.

...In other years, the Twins dominated their division, and did enough against everyone else to win the division. Come playoff time, the teams they dominated were no where to be found. The Twins pounded the division yet again this year, but those teams won't be around come playoff time. We will see if the hex is still there.

I have often said that Minny's organizational approach is less conducive to winning championships than it is to winning divisions. They obviously scout and develop players better than anyone else in the AL Central, perhaps the entire AL. That scouting and developing is seemingly not just geared towards their own players, but also scouting the competition. I think that is why they have the best record within the the division over the past decade. They take time to understand their opponents and exploit their weaknesses.

There is only but so much scouting an organization can do, so my guess is that they have made a conscious choice to know their AL Central opponents better than other teams. [This is where the "fire KW and Ozzie" proponents might step in and say "this is why we need a new management team, we should be doing this as well." No argument here about the need for the Sox to get better at this.] I think Minny does this to compensate for the traditional lack of bringing in top shelf talent by either FA or trade, or at least as much as other contending teams. They seem to be moving towards more aggressiveness with regard to that, though. That compensation has not been enough over recent years to overcome the raw talent gap between them and other contending teams, though, with the exception of their well-scouted AL Central rivals.

#1swisher
09-28-2010, 08:15 PM
They lost "the edge"

http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/229211-gardy-rips-into-lackluster-twins?xid=FanHouse

**** the Twinkies

SoxandtheCityTee
09-28-2010, 10:31 PM
Gardy himself thinks they suck. What can I add?