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View Full Version : Poll: Extension for Ozzie or Have Him Leave?


Hitmen77
09-22-2010, 08:56 PM
If it turns out that Ozzie will only return for 2011 if he's given a 2-year extension, what do you want to see happen?

(sorry Mods, I couldn't see a way to add this poll to the existing thread:redface:)

soltrain21
09-22-2010, 09:01 PM
At this point I'm going with leave. I was completely okay with him staying OR going before, but now I'm over him.

WhiteSox5187
09-22-2010, 09:04 PM
It's too early. If the Sox win the division in 2011 they should bring him back and for more than just one year.

VMSNS
09-22-2010, 09:06 PM
Absolutely not. The organization needs to move forward, without Ozzie and his antics.

Thanks for 2005, Oz. But I won't be upset when/if you leave.

Frater Perdurabo
09-22-2010, 09:47 PM
I'm going to impose my "playoffs every three years" minimum standard.

If Ozzie wants to come back in 2011, I'm OK with that. After winning the division in 2008, he earned latitude for 2009, 2010 and 2011. But if he doesn't win the division in 2011, he should not come back for 2012.

If he DOES win the division in 2011, he earns another three years in which to win at least one more division title: 2012, 2013 and 2014.

Basically, when you win the division, you get three more years to win another division title. I think that's an acceptable minimum standard for the big-market Sox in the AL Central, with several small-market clubs as rivals.

Of course, if he does NOT want to come back, then he should be allowed to leave.

DrCrawdad
09-22-2010, 09:48 PM
IMHO the title should be, "Have or Heave Him?"

Boondock Saint
09-22-2010, 09:50 PM
He makes way too many stupid decisions for my liking.

The Dude
09-22-2010, 09:51 PM
Give him the ol' heave ho!:gulp:

Noneck
09-22-2010, 10:00 PM
Neither, Let him abide by his contract.

DumpJerry
09-22-2010, 10:07 PM
:rolleyes:
It's a good thing WSI did not exist in the 1970's.

CLR01
09-22-2010, 10:51 PM
:rolleyes: Did the fans not have opinions in the 70's?

DumpJerry
09-22-2010, 11:00 PM
:rolleyes: Did the fans not have opinions in the 70's?
Yes, we did.

Craig Grebeck
09-23-2010, 03:33 AM
Yes, we did.
You don't have a point.

DumpJerry
09-23-2010, 07:05 AM
You don't have a point.
If you actually knew anything about the White Sox, you would realize I do.

SluggersAway
09-23-2010, 07:11 AM
The Ozzie show is tiresome and overextended it is time to let him go. KW as well.

Go White Sox
09-23-2010, 07:12 AM
Let him finish out his contract for next year and then make the decision....

SI1020
09-23-2010, 07:18 AM
If you actually knew anything about the White Sox, you would realize I do. I've been a Sox fan since Eisenhower was President and I don't get your point. It is very early in the morning so maybe that will serve as a suitable excuse for appearing to not know anything about the team.

Edit: After Chuck Tanner left the Sox, they were managed by Paul Richards, Bob Lemon, Larry Doby, Don Kessinger and finally Tony LaRussa before some stability was restored.

Craig Grebeck
09-23-2010, 07:40 AM
If you actually knew anything about the White Sox, you would realize I do.
Jesus. A little heavy on the condescension, aren't we?

The 1976 White Sox have nothing to do with the state of the franchise in 2010. Nothing.

SCCWS
09-23-2010, 07:59 AM
I'm going to impose my "playoffs every three years" minimum standard.

If Ozzie wants to come back in 2011, I'm OK with that. After winning the division in 2008, he earned latitude for 2009, 2010 and 2011. But if he doesn't win the division in 2011, he should not come back for 2012.

If he DOES win the division in 2011, he earns another three years in which to win at least one more division title: 2012, 2013 and 2014.

Basically, when you win the division, you get three more years to win another division title. I think that's an acceptable minimum standard for the big-market Sox in the AL Central, with several small-market clubs as rivals.

Of course, if he does NOT want to come back, then he should be allowed to leave.

If the Sox in 2011 don't win the division but get the wildcard what happens??

Rocky Soprano
09-23-2010, 08:02 AM
I will pack his bags, drive him to the airport, and make sure he and his dumb ass son get on the first flight out to Miami.

nccwsfan
09-23-2010, 08:18 AM
I'm going to impose my "playoffs every three years" minimum standard.

If Ozzie wants to come back in 2011, I'm OK with that. After winning the division in 2008, he earned latitude for 2009, 2010 and 2011. But if he doesn't win the division in 2011, he should not come back for 2012.

If he DOES win the division in 2011, he earns another three years in which to win at least one more division title: 2012, 2013 and 2014.

Basically, when you win the division, you get three more years to win another division title. I think that's an acceptable minimum standard for the big-market Sox in the AL Central, with several small-market clubs as rivals.

Of course, if he does NOT want to come back, then he should be allowed to leave.

I think this is reasonable and accurate, with the exception that a playoff berth is required. Whether Ozzie will want to stay here without an extension is the question. I also imagine that Kenny will put his team in place as well (i.e. a bonafide DH, more balanced lineup, etc.).

russ99
09-23-2010, 08:19 AM
Absolutely not. The organization needs to move forward, without Ozzie and his antics.

Thanks for 2005, Oz. But I won't be upset when/if you leave.

I want a good manager, antics or not. Cutting Ozzie loose is another chance for Jerry to cheap out, like with Del Negro and the Bulls.

Besides, this poll needs a third option, Ozzie back in 2011, let's see about extension.

Hitmen77
09-23-2010, 08:26 AM
I want a good manager, antics or not. Cutting Ozzie loose is another chance for Jerry to cheap out, like with Del Negro and the Bulls.

Besides, this poll needs a third option, Ozzie back in 2011, let's see about extension.

No. The point of this poll is in response to the news stories that suggest that without an extension, Ozzie might not come back next year. This isn't meant to be a general "fire Ozzie" opinion poll with multiple options.

The question is: If indeed bringing Ozzie back for 2011 is contingent on giving him an extension (as he is hinting), then "Yes or No" - give in to his extension demands or let him leave.

nccwsfan
09-23-2010, 08:28 AM
Jesus. A little heavy on the condescension, aren't we?

The 1976 White Sox have nothing to do with the state of the franchise in 2010. Nothing.

It doesn't, but his point shows how high the bar has been raised since 2005. The KW/Ozzie regime has been unquestionably the most successful one in White Sox history, and for those longtime fans who went through years of incredibly irrelevant baseball (save for a few years) it's a little humorous to see people calling for the managers head two years removed from division championship #2 where the team rose from 9 games out on 6/9 to get back in the race only to lose out to a superior Twins team.

Ozzie staying or going is not a pointless argument though...

Craig Grebeck
09-23-2010, 08:32 AM
It doesn't, but his point shows how high the bar has been raised since 2005. The KW/Ozzie regime has been unquestionably the most successful one in White Sox history, and for those longtime fans who went through years of incredibly irrelevant baseball (save for a few years) it's a little humorous to see people calling for the managers head two years removed from division championship #2 where the team rose from 9 games out on 6/9 to get back in the race only to lose out to a superior Twins team.

Ozzie staying or going is not a pointless argument though...
And his observation is just dripping with the sort of "You weren't around when things were bad, ergo, I A BETTER FAN MAKE!" garbage.

I don't care what the White Sox did in the 1970s. I truly don't. I wasn't alive. Not important to me. Dick Allen was cool -- smoked cigarettes, saved the Sox, etc. Good. I bet it was a thrill for people who were around. I'm glad for them. The rest of the decade sucked, so I've heard.

I care about 2011 and the future. The past is gone.

nccwsfan
09-23-2010, 08:38 AM
And his observation is just dripping with the sort of "You weren't around when things were bad, ergo, I A BETTER FAN MAKE!" garbage.

I don't care what the White Sox did in the 1970s. I truly don't. I wasn't alive. Not important to me. Dick Allen was cool -- smoked cigarettes, saved the Sox, etc. Good. I bet it was a thrill for people who were around. I'm glad for them. The rest of the decade sucked, so I've heard.

I care about 2011 and the future. The past is gone.

As do a lot of us, but it was still a little humorous to read. It will be an interesting offseason for the White Sox.

russ99
09-23-2010, 09:33 AM
And his observation is just dripping with the sort of "You weren't around when things were bad, ergo, I A BETTER FAN MAKE!" garbage.

I don't care what the White Sox did in the 1970s. I truly don't. I wasn't alive. Not important to me. Dick Allen was cool -- smoked cigarettes, saved the Sox, etc. Good. I bet it was a thrill for people who were around. I'm glad for them. The rest of the decade sucked, so I've heard.

I care about 2011 and the future. The past is gone.

Very good points. I care about 2011 and beyond too, and don't want to backslide to pre-2000 suckitude.

But I can't understand those who think that one title has set the bar as high as the Red Sox and Yankees. IMO, that's akin to us becoming more like their fans.

Some sense of where we've been should also be part of the equation.

guillensdisciple
09-23-2010, 09:37 AM
It's too early. If the Sox win the division in 2011 they should bring him back and for more than just one year.

I'll take this route. What direction do we go with after this is my question? People want a fresh start, but why? This has worked before. Let it run out and see. If it does not by next year then can it.

DumpJerry
09-23-2010, 09:55 AM
Jesus. A little heavy on the condescension, aren't we?

The 1976 White Sox have nothing to do with the state of the franchise in 2010. Nothing.
There were several seasons in the 70's which make any one of Ozzie's teams (including 2007) look like world beaters. Not sure why you picked 1976 as the only year in the 70's.

beasly213
09-23-2010, 10:01 AM
I'm so sick of Ozzie and Kenny acting like two high school girls. I want them both to stay but if Ozzie goes then fire Kenny too. It's all about power and with a new manager Kenny will make sure he has all the power. I prefer a manager and GM that challenge eachother not fight like a couple of 14 year olds.

SI1020
09-23-2010, 10:14 AM
The KW/Ozzie regime has been unquestionably the most successful one in White Sox history, and for those longtime fans who went through years of incredibly irrelevant baseball (save for a few years) it's a little humorous to see people calling for the managers head two years removed from division championship #2 where the team rose from 9 games out on 6/9 to get back in the race only to lose out to a superior Twins team.

Ozzie staying or going is not a pointless argument though... One of the most successful to be sure. The history is pretty bleak.

Rocky Soprano
09-23-2010, 10:29 AM
I want a good manager, antics or not. Cutting Ozzie loose is another chance for Jerry to cheap out, like with Del Negro and the Bulls.

Besides, this poll needs a third option, Ozzie back in 2011, let's see about extension.

With the generous budget that the Sox have been given every year for the past few years how can people still call Jerry cheap?

34 Inch Stick
09-23-2010, 10:56 AM
The most I would want is for them to guarantee his 2012 option. There really is no reason to give him to much security. I wouldn't be afraid if he chose to walk.

Noneck
09-23-2010, 11:31 AM
How often has reinsdorf knuckled under to an employee of his to extend or renegotiate a contract?

khan
09-23-2010, 12:06 PM
Very good points. I care about 2011 and beyond too, and don't want to backslide to pre-2000 suckitude.
I can agree with you on this.

But I can't understand those who think that one title has set the bar as high as the Red Sox and Yankees. IMO, that's akin to us becoming more like their fans.
On the other hand, I can't understand those who think that something that happend half a decade ago means that the bar should be set as low as the Indians and the Royals. IMO, that's akin to accepting mediocrity.

Some sense of where we've been should also be part of the equation.

I agree. America loves a winner, and so do we as White Sox fans. None of us celebrate the 1997 team that finished 1 game under .500. None of us had EMOTIONAL reactions with our family and friends about the 2002 team that was EXACTLY .500. None of us wax poetic about the 1991 or 2001 teams that were middlingly above .500.

But we DO cherish and remember the 2005 champions, and want to experience that again before we all take a dirt nap. As a result, the expectations SHOULD BE raised, not lowered for this club.


At the same time, neither KW, nor Ozzie, nor JR THEMSELVES state the team's goal is to be middlingly >.500 in a season. Surely, JR's financial committment in recent years, KW's [at times foolish] aggressiveness, and Ozzie's desire to win would instruct fans to expect MORE than a ~.500 season.

I see NO REASON why the SOX can't/shouldn't be a more regular participant in post-season baseball. How in the WORLD is that at all unreasonable?


...That is, unless you're the type of guy who cheers his kids when they DON'T have to repeat the 7th grade due to underachievement...

soxfanreggie
09-23-2010, 12:37 PM
Let him finish out his contract for next year and then make the decision....

This is what I would go for. I just wish people in sports with guaranteed contracts would live up to them. If you're signed through 2012 and can't work out an extension or change with the team, well, then you're stuck.

If the Sox are willing to let him go now, without penalty, then that's fine. I would hope Ozzie is not the type of person who would say, "Well fine, then I'm just going to not care...", but I'm not part of those negotiations.

dickallen15
09-23-2010, 12:39 PM
He has a contract for next year with a team option that becomes automatic if the Sox win the division in 2012. If that's not good enough for him, I'd let him walk and would wonder why he agreed to the contract in the first place.

Go White Sox
09-23-2010, 01:00 PM
I agree. America loves a winner, and so do we as White Sox fans. None of us celebrate the 1997 team that finished 1 game under .500. None of us had EMOTIONAL reactions with our family and friends about the 2002 team that was EXACTLY .500. None of us wax poetic about the 1991 or 2001 teams that were middlingly above .500.

But we DO cherish and remember the 2005 champions, and want to experience that again before we all take a dirt nap. As a result, the expectations SHOULD BE raised, not lowered for this club.


At the same time, neither KW, nor Ozzie, nor JR THEMSELVES state the team's goal is to be middlingly >.500 in a season. Surely, JR's financial committment in recent years, KW's [at times foolish] aggressiveness, and Ozzie's desire to win would instruct fans to expect MORE than a ~.500 season.

I see NO REASON why the SOX can't/shouldn't be a more regular participant in post-season baseball. How in the WORLD is that at all unreasonable?


...That is, unless you're the type of guy who cheers his kids when they DON'T have to repeat the 7th grade due to underachievement...

Im gonna have to disagree with you i cherish mediocre White Sox teams...Yes the 2005 team i cherish the most but after that i loved the 2001 Team which finished 83-79 i loved the old-time Jerseys every sunday and Jose Canseco bopping a few Home Runs, same thing with the 02-04 teams who were mediocre also and the 07 who busted their tails every night. I cherish all these teams more then this years team or the 08 team which won the division. To me the teams from 01-05 and 07 and 09 had more likeable players then the 06,08 and 10 teams

TomBradley72
09-23-2010, 01:13 PM
Im gonna have to disagree with you i cherish mediocre White Sox teams...Yes the 2005 team i cherish the most but after that i loved the 2001 Team which finished 83-79 i loved the old-time Jerseys every sunday and Jose Canseco bopping a few Home Runs, same thing with the 02-04 teams who were mediocre also and the 07 who busted their tails every night. I cherish all these teams more then this years team or the 08 team which won the division. To me the teams from 01-05 and 07 and 09 had more likeable players then the 06,08 and 10 teams

The 2008 team had an incredible 3 day run (Cleveland-Detroit-Minnesota) of "elimination" games that they won to get into the post season...how can you prefer 2007 (one of the worst teams in the last 30 years) or the 2003 team (completely choked/quit in September)?

TomBradley72
09-23-2010, 01:15 PM
I think Ozzie is a good manager and was successful overall with the White Sox....my only major quarrel with him was Machowiak in CF in 2006 and Kotsay at DH this year.

But 7 seasons is a long tenure for a manager...and I think he's run his course. With the circus that he brings to the party along with the idea of an entire 2011 with more drama in the mix...I think it's time for a change.

Dan H
09-23-2010, 01:37 PM
It doesn't, but his point shows how high the bar has been raised since 2005. The KW/Ozzie regime has been unquestionably the most successful one in White Sox history, and for those longtime fans who went through years of incredibly irrelevant baseball (save for a few years) it's a little humorous to see people calling for the managers head two years removed from division championship #2 where the team rose from 9 games out on 6/9 to get back in the race only to lose out to a superior Twins team.

Ozzie staying or going is not a pointless argument though...

The bar has been raised, and it's about time. For too long, Chicago baseball fans have been accepting of lousy baseball, and that is exactly what we got.

The Guillen/Williams team was succesful - for one solid year. Since then the team has been very inconsistent. The two didn't do well at all this year. Williams should have put a better team on the field and Guillen should have done a better job managing what was given him. It is true that Sox game back from 9 games out. They also went from 3 1/2 ahead to 12 out. Both Guillen and Williams need to go. The Twins being better was only half the reason the Sox didn't win this year.

If the White Sox don't make some serious changes, then the franchise isn't serious about winning.

kaufsox
09-23-2010, 02:12 PM
Meh, I like Ozzie, he's done an above average job during his tenure here and I'd be glad if he stayed through 2012. In baseball, sports in general, longevity isn't really a regular thing. I mean Ozzie's been here seven years and he's already in the top ten, if not top five of managers who have been with one team. Coaches/managers just don't last all that long and if Ozzie goes, meh. I'm still cheering for the Sox either way. The one thing I don't care about is the off field stuff, especially concerning his kids. I don't care if Ozzie junior is blowing eightballs and staring in pornos, just as long as the White Sox are playing competitive baseball. Further, I really don't care what Ozzie senior says, as long as the team is competing for a playoff spot. Either way, go Sox!

Go White Sox
09-23-2010, 03:54 PM
The 2008 team had an incredible 3 day run (Cleveland-Detroit-Minnesota) of "elimination" games that they won to get into the post season...how can you prefer 2007 (one of the worst teams in the last 30 years) or the 2003 team (completely choked/quit in September)?

i know i was there for the cleveland and Game 163, but to me that team personality wise was meh, im not saying the 07 and 03 were better im just saying i liked the players those yrs more and that the previous poster should realize that Winning Teams are not the only teams that are appreciated.

Tragg
09-23-2010, 05:47 PM
The KW/Ozzie regime has been unquestionably the most successful one in White Sox history

They also have far and away more resources than any other regime, except for Scheuler's regime....and it's somewhat debatable how much more successful this one is than that (other than the WS distinction). Remember, we lost a likely playoff appearance in the 94 strike, and we would have made the playoffs more often, had there been 3 divisions and a wild card.

The 60s and 70s teams were operated with paper cups and a string.

And then I think one could make a case that they've lost their touch. Williams' trades since the Quentin trade have been a big net negative. Guillen says DHs need to play defense and the GM agrees. They're mis-evaluating a lot of talent. They're just not sharp.

nccwsfan
09-23-2010, 08:15 PM
They also have far and away more resources than any other regime, except for Scheuler's regime....and it's somewhat debatable how much more successful this one is than that (other than the WS distinction). Remember, we lost a likely playoff appearance in the 94 strike, and we would have made the playoffs more often, had there been 3 divisions and a wild card.

The 60s and 70s teams were operated with paper cups and a string.

And then I think one could make a case that they've lost their touch. Williams' trades since the Quentin trade have been a big net negative. Guillen says DHs need to play defense and the GM agrees. They're mis-evaluating a lot of talent. They're just not sharp.

With the exception of 2007 the White Sox under Ozzie have played meaningful games in late August/September. 6 out of 7 seasons isn't bad and I'm hard pressed to think of another era (maybe 1910's) when this team had a sustained run of good baseball, although even pro-Ozzie guys like myself have to admit that there should have been better results.

The early 90's teams were good but had a shorter window along with some disappointing seasons (91' and 92'). Unfortunately we'll never know how 94' would have played out, so IMO 2 division titles and 1 WS qualifies as the greatest run in team history to date.

I'm willing to give Ozzie and Kenny 2011, but it's playoff or change.

Frater Perdurabo
09-23-2010, 09:16 PM
If the Sox in 2011 don't win the division but get the wildcard what happens??

Then he gets another three years. It's a playoff appearance. That's what counts.

asindc
09-23-2010, 10:13 PM
They also have far and away more resources than any other regime, except for Scheuler's regime....and it's somewhat debatable how much more successful this one is than that (other than the WS distinction). Remember, we lost a likely playoff appearance in the 94 strike, and we would have made the playoffs more often, had there been 3 divisions and a wild card.

The 60s and 70s teams were operated with paper cups and a string.

And then I think one could make a case that they've lost their touch. Williams' trades since the Quentin trade have been a big net negative. Guillen says DHs need to play defense and the GM agrees. They're mis-evaluating a lot of talent. They're just not sharp.

Whether KW and/or Ozzie is replaced matters to me only to the extent that the moves are not lateral (or worse) and are done to significantly improve the team, but if you think any other management team in Sox history surpasses what they have achieved, you clearly are biased.

LITTLE NELL
09-24-2010, 06:18 AM
I think Ozzie is a good manager and was successful overall with the White Sox....my only major quarrel with him was Machowiak in CF in 2006 and Kotsay at DH this year.

But 7 seasons is a long tenure for a manager...and I think he's run hiscourse . With the circus that he brings to the party along with the idea of an entire 2011 with more drama in the mix...I think it's time for a change.

The great managers stay as long as they want. Walt Alston, Tommy Lasorda are a couple that come to mind. Al Lopez could have stayed with the Sox but he left for health reasons

GoSox2K3
09-24-2010, 11:41 AM
It might be time for Ozzie to go. 2005 seems to be the outlier in his 7 years as managers.

His constant running of his mouth seems fun at first, but after a while it becomes like listening to a vuvuzela.

kaufsox
09-24-2010, 03:55 PM
[/I][/B]

The great managers stay as long as they want. Walt Alston, Tommy Lasorda are a couple that come to mind. Al Lopez could have stayed with the Sox but he left for health reasons


First, by and large the exception, not the rule. Second, both of your examples are from bygone eras, Ozzie has one of the longest tenures in baseball right now.

chisox12
09-24-2010, 04:11 PM
It might be time for Ozzie to go. 2005 seems to be the outlier in his 7 years as managers.

His constant running of his mouth seems fun at first, but after a while it becomes like listening to a vuvuzela.


What about Kenny Williams constantly running his mouth?? Yes, Ozzie talks a lot, but Kenny isn't much better. These media battles that these two seem to constantly have is like listening to a couple of stubborn children. Obviously, someone has to go. Personally, I'd rather see Kenny go than Ozzie but I seem to be the minority around here with that.

JB98
09-24-2010, 06:13 PM
What about Kenny Williams constantly running his mouth?? Yes, Ozzie talks a lot, but Kenny isn't much better. These media battles that these two seem to constantly have is like listening to a couple of stubborn children. Obviously, someone has to go. Personally, I'd rather see Kenny go than Ozzie but I seem to be the minority around here with that.

You are in the minority, but I'll stand with you.

I'm not calling for either KW or Ozzie to go, but if one has to go, I'd prefer KW be the one to leave.

Ozzie can only manage the roster he has. The roster isn't good enough. That's the GM's fault.

Rdy2PlayBall
09-24-2010, 06:55 PM
I think the best thing for this team, short term, is to just keep Ozzie. The team has a chance to be good next year, even if its for the wild card. I just hope KW doesn't use the money card again this offseason. He loves to raise the spending during the season, but not the offseason. I'd rather be ready in April than ready in late June.

A. Cavatica
09-24-2010, 08:07 PM
I think the best thing for this team, short term, is to just keep Ozzie.

Because the team doesn't need to get any better?

Rdy2PlayBall
09-24-2010, 08:16 PM
Because the team doesn't need to get any better?
I can't wait to quote you in the future, with just one of your sentences, just trying to make you look foolish. If you read the end of my post, I clearly believe KW needs to get things done this offseason....

GoSox2K3
09-24-2010, 08:30 PM
What about Kenny Williams constantly running his mouth?? Yes, Ozzie talks a lot, but Kenny isn't much better. These media battles that these two seem to constantly have is like listening to a couple of stubborn children. Obviously, someone has to go. Personally, I'd rather see Kenny go than Ozzie but I seem to be the minority around here with that.

So? What does that have to do with what I said about Ozzie's comments getting old? Does Kenny running his mouth give Ozzie a free pass on his performance? :?:

White Sox Baseball: Our manager can shoot his mouth off as long as the GM is bad too!:rolleyes:

Domeshot17
09-24-2010, 08:39 PM
Kenny never said he would pay his kid 50 grand to stay away from the Sox. Kenny's other son doesn't run his spoiled little kid mouth on twitter every 7 seconds bashing the Sox. Kenny's M.O. sucks, build a .500 team and hope for the best, but atleast you really know he cares about the White Sox. It makes him, I don't know, Tolerable. Ozzie has spent 7 years trashing the fans, calling the fans out, making an ass out him self to the media, he is as much a circus side show as he is a manager. You don't see any other manager doing that.

Tragg
09-24-2010, 09:52 PM
Guillen's managed this team like an ass the last month of the season. His abject refusal to even attempt to give young players experience is worthy of no-extension, at the very least.
And then whining about his contract, while the team has quit for the season....

but if you think any other management team in Sox history surpasses what they have achieved, you clearly are biased.
I don't think I said that.
However, the Sox were a bottom budget team, prior to JR buying the team; and they didn't move into the top tier budget wise until KW took over. So I'd say that ignoring the massive effects of the budget differentials in comparing one managerial era to another is clearly biased.

mcsoxfan
09-24-2010, 10:12 PM
I'm sick of Reinsdorf and his nursery.
We're the laughing stock of baseball.
If this was an investor-owned company, he would have been long gone.

mcsoxfan
09-24-2010, 10:16 PM
First, by and large the exception, not the rule. Second, both of your examples are from bygone eras, Ozzie has one of the longest tenures in baseball right now.

Speaks more to lack of overall managerial talent in baseball.

mcsoxfan
09-24-2010, 10:22 PM
I'm so sick of Ozzie and Kenny acting like two high school girls. I want them both to stay but if Ozzie goes then fire Kenny too. It's all about power and with a new manager Kenny will make sure he has all the power. I prefer a manager and GM that challenge eachother not fight like a couple of 14 year olds.

I want an owner who wouldn't even think of hiring clowns like the ones we got.

DumpJerry
09-24-2010, 10:23 PM
It might be time for Ozzie to go. 2005 seems to be the outlier in his 7 years as managers.

His constant running of his mouth seems fun at first, but after a while it becomes like listening to a vuvuzela.

You might want to review your notes from your Stats class. 2007 looks like the outlier, if there is one. Two losing seasons in seven years with an overall .526 winning percentage as Manager does not make 2005 an outlier.

I think it is great Ozzie runs his mouth. It keeps media heat off the players so they can concentrate on the game.

I'm sick of Reinsdorf and his nursery.
We're the laughing stock of baseball.
If this was an investor-owned company, he would have been long gone.
The Sox are an investor owned team. There are about 50 individual equal investors organized by Reinsdorf. Reinsdorf's share is the same size as all the other investors' share.

You were thinking of the Cubs when you posted about the laughing stock of baseball.

DumpJerry
09-24-2010, 10:26 PM
Guillen's managed this team like an ass the last month of the season. His abject refusal to even attempt to give young players experience is worthy of no-extension, at the very least.
And then whining about his contract, while the team has quit for the season.
Brent Morel, Chris Sale and Gordon Beckham would dispute that.

mcsoxfan
09-24-2010, 10:29 PM
I can't wait to quote you in the future, with just one of your sentences, just trying to make you look foolish. If you read the end of my post, I clearly believe KW needs to get things done this offseason....

The slop they have now is no better than third best in the central and probably 4th best in the West and definitely 5th best in the East.
Turn on MLB Network and watch some really good teams play and ask yourself how the Sox compare to them.
It's downright embarrassing.

Reinsdorf-Williams-Guillen are living off a string of unbelievable pitching performances in October 2005 that haven't been and probably will never be duplicated by another Sox staff again.
That is their claim to fame.
Two damn weeks out of 28 years of ownership.
That's it and that's all.

Sam Spade
09-24-2010, 10:49 PM
He certainly does not deserve an extension after this year. If he wants to leave, he can leave (as if my blessing means something).

Sam Spade
09-24-2010, 10:51 PM
You might want to review your notes from your Stats class. 2007 looks like the outlier, if there is one. Two losing seasons in seven years with an overall .526 winning percentage as Manager does not make 2005 an outlier.

I think it is great Ozzie runs his mouth. It keeps media heat off the players so they can concentrate on the game.


The Sox are an investor owned team. There are about 50 individual equal investors organized by Reinsdorf. Reinsdorf's share is the same size as all the other investors' share.

You were thinking of the Cubs when you posted about the laughing stock of baseball.

I didn't think anyone knew how big any particular member's share except reinsdorf's was (I've read 2.5%). Where did you read about the other members shares?

DumpJerry
09-24-2010, 11:49 PM
I didn't think anyone knew how big any particular member's share except reinsdorf's was (I've read 2.5%). Where did you read about the other members shares?
It's been written many times. I also met one of them once. They have equal shares.

JB98
09-25-2010, 12:10 AM
I'm sick of Reinsdorf and his nursery.
We're the laughing stock of baseball.
If this was an investor-owned company, he would have been long gone.

The Pittsburgh Pirates are the laughingstock of baseball. Let's not resort to childish hyperbole here.

hawkjt
09-25-2010, 01:37 AM
Ozzie blinked. Cowley tweeted tonite that Ozzie says he never asked for an extension,only to know where he stands. This sounds like Ozzie is trying to take the heat down a notch after all the headlines. I think Ozzie will be back next year,under his current deal, alongside Kenny. And I am fine with that. These guys have given us teams that have a fighting chance every year cept for 07.

Craig Grebeck
09-25-2010, 08:34 AM
I think it is great Ozzie runs his mouth. It keeps media heat off the players so they can concentrate on the game.

Or the players have to constantly field questions like "How about Ozzie calling Mariotti a ******?" or "What do you think about Ozzie calling out the fans and telling them to root for the Cubs?"

DumpJerry
09-25-2010, 08:42 AM
Or the players have to constantly field questions like "How about Ozzie calling Mariotti a ******?" or "What do you think about Ozzie calling out the fans and telling them to root for the Cubs?"
That's fine. It's when the players become the story because of something they did off the field is when they get distracted. Ozzie takes the distraction off them.

Craig Grebeck
09-25-2010, 08:48 AM
That's fine. It's when the players become the story because of something they did off the field is when they get distracted. Ozzie takes the distraction off them.
No he does not.

Also, how many times in recent history pre-Ozzie was this an issue? And how many times since Ozzie was hired have Sox players done things off the field worthy of distraction?

nsolo
09-25-2010, 09:21 AM
I want a good manager, antics or not. Cutting Ozzie loose is another chance for Jerry to cheap out, like with Del Negro and the Bulls.

Besides, this poll needs a third option, Ozzie back in 2011, let's see about extension.

Thunder Stealer. If Ozzie leaves, and Kenny stays, who would be the new manager at a price point to be approved by Jerry? Someone Kenny would want may be too expensive.

If both Ozzie and Kenny are gone, there would be two positions to be filled on the cheap.

I'd like to see them both leave. Ozzie and Co. are drama queens while Kenny's going for broke approach had produced a band of misfits and has beens that struggle to play .500 ball.

Without change, I predict more of the same. Because of this, I'm willing to take the chance of seeing new leadership,

dickallen15
09-25-2010, 09:49 AM
It surprises me how many people makeOzzie's possible departure a death sentence for the White Sox. A return to losing 90 games a year. Really, since JR took over in 81, the run from 81-85 is about what the run has been under Ozzie except 2005 the team won, and 1983 the did not. 86 was the year of Hawk and it was bad, but really not all his fault as some big pieces, Burns, who was traded to NY and never pitched again and Seaver, who whined his way out of town were never the same. That team was destined to fail. The team then went on a planned rebuilding spree, which was quite successful. A few years of growing pains, but again, 90-94 was a pretty good run.

Jeff Torborg left after 3 seasons, 2 pretty good ones in 1990 and 1991, replaced by Gene LaMont, who actually has a higher winning percentage as a White Sox manager than Ozzie Guillen. LaMont gets canned 30 games into 1995 replaced by the idiot of all idiots Bevington, and yet Bevington was able to win 85 games in 1996. Then whipping boy Jerry Manuel takes over. A right below .500 1998, a rebuild in 1999 and a division title in 2000. Struggles in 2001 and 2002 although each team was at least .500, and 2003 the year he was fired, the Sox won 86 which is actually more games than they won Ozzie's first season.

If the rosters are the same whether Ozzie is managing or not, there isn't going to be a 15-25 game drop in the number of White Sox wins just because of the new manager, and if you think JR wants to go cheap, isn't that exactly what he did when he brought Ozzie in?

GoSox2K3
09-25-2010, 10:16 AM
You might want to review your notes from your Stats class. 2007 looks like the outlier, if there is one. Two losing seasons in seven years with an overall .526 winning percentage as Manager does not make 2005 an outlier.

2010: Team fades miserably in 2nd half (not good)
2009: Team fades miserably in 2nd half (not good)
2008: Successful season
2007: Train wreck of a season
2006: Team fades miserably. Below .500 in 2nd half and blew a big wild card lead to finish 3rd.

Um, yeah, I need to review my notes. The team has looked pretty good more often than not in the last 4 1/2 years. :rolleyes:

I think it is great Ozzie runs his mouth. It keeps media heat off the players so they can concentrate on the game.Wow, you seriously can't believe that old excuse anymore.:o: Ozzie is such a diabolical genius that he rips on Jim Thome and Nancy Faust to take the heat off the players! ....and the on-field result these last two months have been astounding!

By the way, my vuvuzela comment was in honor of Ozzie's wonderful comment from about a week ago....but at least I now know that when he says that, it's to take the heat off the players!:rolling:

soltrain21
09-25-2010, 10:49 AM
That's fine. It's when the players become the story because of something they did off the field is when they get distracted. Ozzie takes the distraction off them.

When does that EVER happen? I must've missed all the drunk driving and raping the players are doing. Unless Ozzie is THAT good at deflecting attention to them.

Tragg
09-25-2010, 12:10 PM
Brent Morel, Chris Sale and Gordon Beckham would dispute that.
Players a blind man can see can play.

But development, even in garbage time? Forget it.

As far as his taking heat off of the players, maybe they need a little heat. Maybe this team has lacked some fire and leadership from the players.

Nellie_Fox
09-25-2010, 02:05 PM
Or the players have to constantly field questions like "How about Ozzie calling Mariotti a ******?" You're the only one who keeps bringing that up.

Craig Grebeck
09-25-2010, 02:06 PM
You're the only one who keeps bringing that up.
It was an example of a past issue in the clubhouse.

Edit: and I really have no problem bringing up the fact that Ozzie made the most embarrassing gaffe I've heard in, hell, forever. Ozzie should have been canned four seconds after he uttered that slur.

Nellie_Fox
09-25-2010, 02:18 PM
It was an example of a past issue in the clubhouse.

Edit: and I really have no problem bringing up the fact that Ozzie made the most embarrassing gaffe I've heard in, hell, forever. Ozzie should have been canned four seconds after he uttered that slur.That's your opinion. That doesn't even make my top-ten of worst things I've heard sports people say.

Craig Grebeck
09-25-2010, 02:20 PM
That's your opinion. That doesn't even make my top-ten of worst things I've heard sports people say.
I'm curious what could top it, personally.

Sam Spade
09-25-2010, 02:32 PM
My opinion - Calling mariotti what he did is akin to calling someone an n-word in the 60s. The gay civil rights movement is still not fully developed or widely accepted. Its not any less disgusting to be associated with Ozzie with that in my mind.

DumpJerry
09-25-2010, 02:43 PM
No he does not.

Also, how many times in recent history pre-Ozzie was this an issue? And how many times since Ozzie was hired have Sox players done things off the field worthy of distraction?
:anderson::bashbro
Yeah, baseball players never do anything off-field that would cause embarrassment to the team or distract us from performing on the field because the media wants to know what the heck we did in our private time.

It never happens. Before or since Ozzie became Manager.

Domeshot17
09-25-2010, 03:59 PM
:anderson::bashbro
Yeah, baseball players never do anything off-field that would cause embarrassment to the team or distract us from performing on the field because the media wants to know what the heck we did in our private time.

It never happens. Before or since Ozzie became Manager.



Really? This is the best you can do. I would have to agree with Craig Grebeck here.... Ozzie using a homosexual slur tops Brian Anderson and Brandon Mccarthy staying out too late at the bars, or Anderson beating the **** out of Ozzie's kid.

And did Ozzie have some big rant to take the pressure off the Sox when Canseco was here? The way I remember it Canseco wasn't half bad during his short stint, and came out with the steroids after retiring.....

Ozzie got off so easy for the slur. Minor League Manager's have been fired for using that, I can't even think of another manager recently making any kind of comments like that. The only thing that jumps to mind was Marge Schott.

DumpJerry
09-25-2010, 04:03 PM
Really? This is the best you can do. I would have to agree with Craig Grebeck here.... Ozzie using a homosexual slur tops Brian Anderson and Brandon Mccarthy staying out too late at the bars, or Anderson beating the **** out of Ozzie's kid.

And did Ozzie have some big rant to take the pressure off the Sox when Canseco was here? The way I remember it Canseco wasn't half bad during his short stint, and came out with the steroids after retiring.....
Who said anything about McCarthy? I know people who encountered BA at clubs and bars and all I have to say is if I had a sister and if he even tried to enter a building she was in, I would beat the **** out of him so badly, there wouldn't be any DNA to identify his remains.

DickAllen72
09-25-2010, 04:06 PM
My opinion - Calling mariotti what he did is akin to calling someone an n-word in the 60s. The gay civil rights movement is still not fully developed or widely accepted. Its not any less disgusting to be associated with Ozzie with that in my mind.
That's your opinion and you're entitled to it but that doesn't make it correct.

Ozzie has said and done a lot more stupid things than that. And Marriotti is a bigger jerk than Ozzie.

That said, I think it's time for the Sox and Ozzie to part ways. Let KW hire someone of his own choosing to replace him.

Craig Grebeck
09-25-2010, 07:05 PM
:anderson::bashbro
Yeah, baseball players never do anything off-field that would cause embarrassment to the team or distract us from performing on the field because the media wants to know what the heck we did in our private time.

It never happens. Before or since Ozzie became Manager.
That's all you've got? A steroid freak and a young guy who hit the bars too much? Ozzie keeps the pressure off of these sorts of people by...I don't know, saying **** this and **** that all the time?

He's a genius.

Edit: also, good to see keeping the pressure off of Brian Anderson did this team so much good.

JB98
09-25-2010, 11:21 PM
I'm curious what could top it, personally.

:rolling:

That's not even the most offensive thing Ozzie has said.

I wasn't offended by that remark, personally. You would think the most offensive comment of all time would bother me at least a little bit.

DumpJerry
09-26-2010, 01:30 AM
That's all you've got? A steroid freak and a young guy who hit the bars too much? Ozzie keeps the pressure off of these sorts of people by...I don't know, saying **** this and **** that all the time?

He's a genius.

Edit: also, good to see keeping the pressure off of Brian Anderson did this team so much good.
I'm sorry if my posts are too much for you to understand them. Oh well. It's not that important that I have to convince you anything.

Craig Grebeck
09-26-2010, 06:07 AM
I'm sorry if my posts are too much for you to understand them. Oh well. It's not that important that I have to convince you anything.
You could actually clarify your position instead of being so arrogant. I'm just trying to get to the bottom of this "Ozzie keeps the pressure off of the guys!" stuff.

doublem23
09-26-2010, 06:27 AM
That's your opinion. That doesn't even make my top-ten of worst things I've heard sports people say.

Seriously, if we were going to fire everyone in sports who utters that word in a derogatory way, man, we'd have high school coaches in the big leagues in minutes.

Of course, Ozzie let it slip publicly, but hey, he took the punishment, did the MLB-mandated sensitivity course (because, shockingly, not everyone is raised in a PC freakout environment) and hasn't slipped up since.

OH NO, SOMEBODY MADE A MISTAKE. BURN HIM AT THE STAKE.

Sheesh.

DumpJerry
09-26-2010, 07:42 AM
You could actually clarify your position instead of being so arrogant. I'm just trying to get to the bottom of this "Ozzie keeps the pressure off of the guys!" stuff.
I clarified it and others you can't, or don't want to, understand. I can't help you any more than that.

Craig Grebeck
09-26-2010, 07:43 AM
I clarified it and others you can't, or don't want to, understand. I can't help you any more than that.
And I asked you a further question. Is Brian Anderson the only guy on the White Sox since 2004 who had off-the-field problems? How much good did Ozzie do him with his ranting and raving?

It's an honest question.

DumpJerry
09-26-2010, 07:44 AM
And I asked you a further question. Is Brian Anderson the only guy on the White Sox since 2004 who had off-the-field problems? How much good did Ozzie do him with his ranting and raving?

It's an honest question.
You missed my point completely. I'm done leading you to the water.

Craig Grebeck
09-26-2010, 07:48 AM
You missed my point completely. I'm done leading you to the water.
How did I miss it? I'm honestly curious.

Was your point this?

Yeah, baseball players never do anything off-field that would cause embarrassment to the team or distract us from performing on the field because the media wants to know what the heck we did in our private time.

Or this?

Who said anything about McCarthy? I know people who encountered BA at clubs and bars and all I have to say is if I had a sister and if he even tried to enter a building she was in, I would beat the **** out of him so badly, there wouldn't be any DNA to identify his remains.

Or this?

That's fine. It's when the players become the story because of something they did off the field is when they get distracted. Ozzie takes the distraction off them.

I really am curious where I missed the point. I just want to know how or why you think Ozzie takes the pressure off the guys. That's all. No need to condescend.

SCCWS
09-26-2010, 10:35 AM
It surprises me how many people makeOzzie's possible departure a death sentence for the White Sox. A return to losing 90 games a year. Really, since JR took over in 81, the run from 81-85 is about what the run has been under Ozzie except 2005 the team won, and 1983 the did not. 86 was the year of Hawk and it was bad, but really not all his fault as some big pieces, Burns, who was traded to NY and never pitched again and Seaver, who whined his way out of town were never the same. That team was destined to fail. The team then went on a planned rebuilding spree, which was quite successful. A few years of growing pains, but again, 90-94 was a pretty good run.

Jeff Torborg left after 3 seasons, 2 pretty good ones in 1990 and 1991, replaced by Gene LaMont, who actually has a higher winning percentage as a White Sox manager than Ozzie Guillen. LaMont gets canned 30 games into 1995 replaced by the idiot of all idiots Bevington, and yet Bevington was able to win 85 games in 1996. Then whipping boy Jerry Manuel takes over. A right below .500 1998, a rebuild in 1999 and a division title in 2000. Struggles in 2001 and 2002 although each team was at least .500, and 2003 the year he was fired, the Sox won 86 which is actually more games than they won Ozzie's first season.

If the rosters are the same whether Ozzie is managing or not, there isn't going to be a 15-25 game drop in the number of White Sox wins just because of the new manager, and if you think JR wants to go cheap, isn't that exactly what he did when he brought Ozzie in?

I agree that if Ozzie leaves, the team will not revert to 90 losses. As you point out, the White Sox since LaRussa left have played about .525 under 6 different managers. Of the 6 Fregosi and Bevington were below that average.

Baseball loves to hire retreads as we see Baltimore scooping of Showalter and his career.517. A guy Texas couldn't wait to get rid of. Getting ride of Ozzie though will probably only bring in another guy someone else dumped. Just like we probably won't see 90 loss seasons by dumping Ozzie we may not see division titles either.

Put a solid team on the field and most experienced mangers with some luck will win. Put a mediocre team on the field and most experienced mangers will lose. Jerry Manuel had a very good year in Chicago and some very average years. Now he is in New York and he had a very good year followed by 2 very average. 9 years and he is a .511 manager.

He may be available. Booby Valentine??? He was mentioned for Marlins last year and Orioles this year. Career .510. Lou Pinella??? .517. Ozzie has less experience which may be why he is higher at .527.
If we traded a .300 hitter, I think we would want equal value back. If we dump Ozzie only to get a guy someone else got rid of, I think we are better off not making a change. Ozzie has that intangible not many other guys have, he has won it all.

If Ozzie is removed, management better have a plan for a viable alternative. Lets hope that plan is not the famous line from Casablanca...............................

asindc
09-26-2010, 10:49 AM
I agree that if Ozzie leaves, the team will not revert to 90 losses. As you point out, the White Sox since LaRussa left have played about .525 under 6 different managers. Of the 6 Fregosi and Bevington were below that average.

Baseball loves to hire retreads as we see Baltimore scooping of Showalter and his career.517. A guy Texas couldn't wait to get rid of. Getting ride of Ozzie though will probably only bring in another guy someone else dumped. Just like we probably won't see 90 loss seasons by dumping Ozzie we may not see division titles either.

Put a solid team on the field and most experienced mangers with some luck will win. Put a mediocre team on the field and most experienced mangers will lose. Jerry Manuel had a very good year in Chicago and some very average years. Now he is in New York and he had a very good year followed by 2 very average. 9 years and he is a .511 manager.

He may be available. Booby Valentine??? He was mentioned for Marlins last year and Orioles this year. Career .510. Lou Pinella??? .517. Ozzie has less experience which may be why he is higher at .527.
If we traded a .300 hitter, I think we would want equal value back. If we dump Ozzie only to get a guy someone else got rid of, I think we are better off not making a change. Ozzie has that intangible not many other guys have, he has won it all.

If Ozzie is removed, management better have a plan for a viable alternative. Lets hope that plan is not the famous line from Casablanca.............................. .

This is the point I've been making all along on this issue. I think some people assume that just making a change will at Manager and/or GM will produce significantly better results. If that is not the assumption, then why make the change in the first place?

Craig Grebeck
09-26-2010, 10:52 AM
This is the point I've been making all along on this issue. I think some people assume that just making a change will at Manager and/or GM will produce significantly better results. If that is not the assumption, then why make the change in the first place?
Because people believe the White Sox can do better. Why did people want Jerry Manuel gone?

asindc
09-26-2010, 11:10 AM
Because people believe the White Sox can do better. Why did people want Jerry Manuel gone?

As I have been saying, I'm not against firing either one of them IF it is done to significantly improve the team, but several posters have said more than once that they want change for the sake of change. SCCWS' post says it quite well, I think. I just don't want a "check out the new boss, same as the old boss" type move. That would be pointless IMO.

Craig Grebeck
09-26-2010, 11:18 AM
As I have been saying, I'm not against firing either one of them IF it is done to significantly improve the team, but several posters have said more than once that they want change for the sake of change. SCCWS' post says it quite well, I think. I just don't want a "check out the new boss, same as the old boss" type move. That would be pointless IMO.
Well of course. But when your general manager has produced the worst farm system in baseball and one division title in five years (two in six, two in ten, etc.), are people wrong to say "Hey, let's see if we can't change the direction of the organization?"

When your manager is out in the press all the time making inflammatory/provocative statements about the organization, and his two idiot sons are poisoning the airwaves, I can't blame people for wanting Ozzie gone for the sake of his personality. I actually quite like Ozzie's handling of the pitching staff. I just want him out of personnel decisions altogether.

russ99
09-26-2010, 11:20 AM
And I asked you a further question. Is Brian Anderson the only guy on the White Sox since 2004 who had off-the-field problems? How much good did Ozzie do him with his ranting and raving?

It's an honest question.

You just solidified my theory that many around here dislike Ozzie because Anderson supposedly was given a raw deal.

Which is of course, ludicrous. Anderson put himself in that position with his attitude, lack of work ethic and poor performance.

Craig Grebeck
09-26-2010, 11:30 AM
You just solidified my theory that many around here dislike Ozzie because Anderson supposedly was given a raw deal.

Which is of course, ludicrous. Anderson put himself in that position with his attitude, lack of work ethic and poor performance.
Jesus. Did you follow the conversation at all up to my post? DJ brought up BA. I'm trying to figure out what DJ meant in his posts.

I don't have any thoughts one way or the other about BA.

A. Cavatica
09-26-2010, 11:53 AM
.527 (is that his career average?) seems awfully low, given the talent and Ozzie had to work with. Especially the pitchers. Yes, there were holes every year -- but good managers find a way to cover up for them, and Ozzie wasn't very good at figuring out who his best nine were.

soltrain21
09-26-2010, 12:08 PM
You just solidified my theory that many around here dislike Ozzie because Anderson supposedly was given a raw deal.

Which is of course, ludicrous. Anderson put himself in that position with his attitude, lack of work ethic and poor performance.

Wow. Not even close to the actual conversation that is going on here.

asindc
09-26-2010, 01:03 PM
Well of course. But when your general manager has produced the worst farm system in baseball and one division title in five years (two in six, two in ten, etc.), are people wrong to say "Hey, let's see if we can't change the direction of the organization?"

When your manager is out in the press all the time making inflammatory/provocative statements about the organization, and his two idiot sons are poisoning the airwaves, I can't blame people for wanting Ozzie gone for the sake of his personality. I actually quite like Ozzie's handling of the pitching staff. I just want him out of personnel decisions altogether.

You say "of course" as if everyone gets that, but that is not the impression I'm getting from a very vocal minority. Some have suggested firing Ozzie because of his antics only to suggest Bobby Valentine as a successor, which makes me wonder if Ozzie's antics are really why they want him fired. Some have suggested firing KW only to suggest Rick Hahn as his successor, which leads me to believe that they assume Hahn has not played a significant role in the FO moves of the past four seasons. The assumption might be correct, but it is only an assumption. I want something more than an assumption before I join the "fire them now" rally cry.

mcsoxfan
09-26-2010, 01:11 PM
Congraduations to all the Ozzipologists on securing your 'winning' record. I hope it finds you comfort throughout the upcoming White Sox less playoffs.
I hope his dismissal is swift.

russ99
09-26-2010, 07:12 PM
Hopefully everyone involved can meet tomorrow and put this insanity to an end one way or the other.

Regardless how this plays out, it reflects badly on the organization.

Personally I hope Jerry tells both Kenny and Ozzie to bury the hatchet or they're both gone.

Nellie_Fox
09-26-2010, 11:35 PM
Congraduations:shocked::shocked::shocked:

Sox
09-26-2010, 11:38 PM
Ozzie needs to be put on the proverbial slow boat to China to coach little league baseball.