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GoSox2K3
09-22-2010, 12:10 PM
Under his current deal, the Sox have an option for 2012 (which automatically vests if the Sox win the division next year). Apparently, Ozzie wants more than that.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/ct-spt-0922-white-sox-as-chicago--20100921,0,2031227.story

I haven't been a "Fire Ozzie" guy, but wouldn't be sorry to see him go. This team has been underachieving for 4 1/2 years now. Players come and go and it's the same results. ...It's time for a change.

DirtySox
09-22-2010, 12:15 PM
Transition the GM and the manager at the same time. Win win. It needs to be done.

Rockin Robin
09-22-2010, 12:15 PM
I've defended Ozzie for years but honestly, I'm just exhausted. What I wouldn't give for a Gardenhire/Maddon type. Boring, a little crusty, just wins.

kittle42
09-22-2010, 12:21 PM
I'll extend him an invitation to manage elsewhere.

Johnny Mostil
09-22-2010, 12:21 PM
I thought Margalus had an interesting perspective here (http://soxmachine.com/2010/09/22/flag-half-mast-white-sox-coaching-staff-half-hearted/).

I don't know the circumstances, and am not necessarily a "Fire Ozzie" guy, but the timing on this seems, um, impolitic . . .

soltrain21
09-22-2010, 12:23 PM
I would really like to hear a no bull**** answer from Kenny/Ozzie on how this organization is going in the "right direction" and what, exactly, that direction is - because I don't see one.

DirtySox
09-22-2010, 12:23 PM
I thought Margalus had an interesting perspective here (http://soxmachine.com/2010/09/22/flag-half-mast-white-sox-coaching-staff-half-hearted/).

I don't know the circumstances, and am not necessarily a "Fire Ozzie" guy, but the timing on this seems, um, impolitic . . .

Read that this morning with my coffee. <3 Sox Machine. Very good piece.

Johnny Mostil
09-22-2010, 12:25 PM
Read that this morning with my coffee. <3 Sox Machine. Very good piece.

Loved his line on how the season is like a Bell curve . . .

veeter
09-22-2010, 12:26 PM
Sounds like a guy who knows he's on the hot seat. Let Ozzie go, keep Kenny.

soltrain21
09-22-2010, 12:27 PM
Sounds like a guy who knows he's on the hot seat. Let Ozzie go, keep Kenny.

He is acting like the on again off again girlfriend who threatens to leave anytime a fight pops up and then comes back saying how much she cares.

It never ends well.

Hitmen77
09-22-2010, 12:30 PM
I would really like to hear a no bull**** answer from Kenny/Ozzie on how this organization is going in the "right direction" and what, exactly, that direction is - because I don't see one.

+1.

Ozzie's teams have under performed since mid-2006. Even the 2008 division winners stumbled in the 2nd half and needed a miracle finish to salvage that season.

His "no Thome" decision was a huge failure only made better by his team totally falling apart in September to make the issue moot.

What does Ozzie bring to this team?

Craig Grebeck
09-22-2010, 12:37 PM
Ozzie is an intolerable goof. Just shut up and manage.

TheOldRoman
09-22-2010, 12:38 PM
First off, I think Ozzie is thinking about bolting to the Marlins (I'm sure someone within the organization let him know unofficially that they would take him). I think he is going for this as a last ditch effort and will leave if he doesn't get an extension.

Secondly, this is ****ing ridiculous. Your team is in the midst of an epic laydown. They completely gave up while 4.5 games back of first place. The day after they are eliminated from playoff contention you don't go public complaining that you want a ****ing extension.

Craig Grebeck
09-22-2010, 12:40 PM
First off, I think Ozzie is thinking about bolting to the Marlins (I'm sure someone within the organization let him know unofficially that they would take him). I think he is going for this as a last ditch effort and will leave if he doesn't get an extension.

Secondly, this is ****ing ridiculous. Your team is in the midst of an epic laydown. They completely gave up while 4.5 games back of first place. The day after they are eliminated from playoff contention you don't go public complaining that you want a ****ing extension.
I think the Marlins would be extremely, extremely, extremely excited to get Guillen. I don't blame them. That is an organization that needs some new blood, some energy, etc. Guillen gets old, but he's entertaining as hell at first.

He'll get some more people out to the ballpark, and keep that team on the front page. Good for him, them, etc. He's a better fit there than here.

And I concur: bad timing.

soltrain21
09-22-2010, 12:41 PM
First off, I think Ozzie is thinking about bolting to the Marlins (I'm sure someone within the organization let him know unofficially that they would take him). I think he is going for this as a last ditch effort and will leave if he doesn't get an extension.

Secondly, this is ****ing ridiculous. Your team is in the midst of an epic laydown. They completely gave up while 4.5 games back of first place. The day after they are eliminated from playoff contention you don't go public complaining that you want a ****ing extension.

Cmon, man! Everything is for a reason with Ozzie. He is taking the pressure off the team!

VMSNS
09-22-2010, 12:43 PM
LOL @ Ozzie wanting a contract extension after his team has played absolute horse**** baseball for the past two months.

This team desperately needs to go in a new direction, and Ozzie is not the person we need to right the ship.

MeteorsSox4367
09-22-2010, 12:50 PM
I liked Ozzie as a player and as a manager. Hell, the Sox won a World Series under him, so I'll always be grateful for that.

But if he were to leave, it wouldn't break my heart.

The whole DH thing this season with not signing Thome was a mess and Kotsay and Jones didn't work. Plus, all the crap with Ozzie's son is something that I think a lot of people couldn't give a damn about.

Like someone else posted, give me someone like Gardenhire or Maddon who isn't as colorful as Ozzie, but wins.

If Ozzie is the Sox' manager on Opening Day next season, that's fine. But if he's managing the Marlins, that's cool, too.

Dan H
09-22-2010, 12:52 PM
Ozzie may be trying to force Reinsdorf's hand, and if that's the case, I think he will be leaving soon. Usually when managers push like this, ownership pushes back.

I am convinced that Ozzie is on the way out. He is not part of any solution to the team's ills. Problem is, I don't know if Williams or Reinsdorf are any part of the solution, either.

Tragg
09-22-2010, 12:58 PM
He's certainly earned it with his yoeoman work the last month.

palehozenychicty
09-22-2010, 12:59 PM
I love Ozzie, but it's just time. I think Kenny should step aside too. They gave us 2005, but their reign has been mostly underachievements and mediocrity. We've had many great moments, but I think this franchise, in this market, can do better.

WhiteSox5187
09-22-2010, 01:06 PM
This has been the most exhausting year when it comes to Ozzie and I think he deserves some credit for keeping his team in it when they were 9.5 out and 9 games under .500, but he also deserves some blame for the complete and total collapse that we have witnessed this week as the team has just checked out mentally. I think that Ozzie is a good manager and does a good job out of getting the most out of his teams (the only year his team really under achieved in my opinion was in 2006 and that was a result of the pitching being completely exhausted and several bullpen guys having career years in 2005). If he wins the division next year I'd have no problem extending him. But if there is another year like this, maybe it's time for him to go to Florida.

wassagstdu
09-22-2010, 01:08 PM
There is no way Ozzie is (or should be) getting an extension right now. I think he is asking for an invitation to go to Florida. Like several other posters, I have been Ozzie's most determined supporter and fan since he was the Sox rookie shortstop. Now I say let him go. The Sox will never field the kind of team he wants to manage as long as they play in the Cell. And he should be fired for his stupid, uncalled for remarks about organ music on the day the Sox were honoring a true White Sox treasure, Nancy Faust.

And while they are at it, they might consider firing KW's ass for (a) waging a war of egos with his manager at the team's expense, and (b) the Swisher double fiasco and a few almost equally incomprehensible moves (taking on an over the hill 'roider who anyone could predict would take time to get back to hitting, that time being the critical period for which he was acquired, instead of one of the relievers that the Twins grabbed.)

Madvora
09-22-2010, 01:09 PM
This may be the most pathetic time to ask for an extension I have ever seen. Your team has just completely fallen apart to the same division rival again and you have lost 8 games in a row.

russ99
09-22-2010, 01:09 PM
I want Ozzie to come back, but even I agree the timing here is all wrong.

Seems a typical Cowley ploy to stir the dirt.

I like Kenny's idea of a playoff team in 2011 to lock in Ozzie's option/extension.

Noneck
09-22-2010, 01:11 PM
If he doesn't like the 2012 option based on winning the division in 2011, he shouldn't have signed that contract.

SI1020
09-22-2010, 01:12 PM
I want Ozzie to come back, but even I agree the timing here is all wrong.

Seems a typical Cowley ploy to stir the dirt.

I like Kenny's idea of a playoff team in 2011 to lock in Ozzie's option/extension. What a surprise. On another note I agree with Dan H and wassagstdu.

soltrain21
09-22-2010, 01:15 PM
I want Ozzie to come back, but even I agree the timing here is all wrong.

Seems a typical Cowley ploy to stir the dirt.

I like Kenny's idea of a playoff team in 2011 to lock in Ozzie's option/extension.

Except they were direct quotes from Ozzie, and the small fact that Cowley didn't write it...

russ99
09-22-2010, 01:15 PM
What a surprise. On another note I agree with Dan H and wassagstdu.

My tolerance for this crap is at an end. Form your own damn opinion, don't comment on mine.

SI1020
09-22-2010, 01:18 PM
My tolerance for this crap is at an end. Form your own damn opinion, don't comment on mine. I have formed mine, you just don't like it.

TomBradley72
09-22-2010, 01:18 PM
Except they were direct quotes from Ozzie, and the small fact that Cowley didn't write it...

Or that's it's also in the USA Today and the Tribune.

Somehow Joe Cowley is responsible for what Ozzie says directly to the media?

TomBradley72
09-22-2010, 01:20 PM
My tolerance for this crap is at an end. Form your own damn opinion, don't comment on mine.

I'm pretty sure the whole idea of a message board is folks responding to each others ideas & opinions.

Send an email to yourself if you don't want anyone to respond.

kobo
09-22-2010, 01:20 PM
Secondly, this is ****ing ridiculous. Your team is in the midst of an epic laydown. They completely gave up while 4.5 games back of first place. The day after they are eliminated from playoff contention you don't go public complaining that you want a ****ing extension.
I haven't paid much attention to the Sox since last Tuesday's game against the Twins, but I know they keep losing. And right now, Guillen should be more concerned with getting the team to at least finish above .500 and play good baseball these last couple weeks rather than wanting a contract extension. And what has he done to even earn that extension? Forget 2005, that's 5 years ago and doesn't mean squat anymore. His teams have made the postseason once since that time, and they were lucky to get there. I'm fed up with Guillen and Williams at this point, I'm tired of hearing about Oney bashing the organization on Twitter, tired of KW trading multiple prospects away for aging players or for players who he thinks can do things they haven't done elsewhere. This season has been exhausting from a fan standpoint. So many ups and downs this year coupled with all the drama and the bad moves, I'm glad the season is almost over.

Red Barchetta
09-22-2010, 01:21 PM
I've defended Ozzie for years but honestly, I'm just exhausted. What I wouldn't give for a Gardenhire/Maddon type. Boring, a little crusty, just wins.

I agree. Many teams reflect their manager's personality. The SOX unfortunately are either hot or cold with no level of consistency. I can't believe the team that played in June and July was the same team that played in April, May, August and September...

Harry Potter
09-22-2010, 01:24 PM
Send an email to yourself if you don't want anyone to respond.

:rolling:

Nicely done

Johnny Mostil
09-22-2010, 01:29 PM
Or that's it's also in the USA Today and the Tribune.

Somehow Joe Cowley is responsible for what Ozzie says directly to the media?

And, FWIW, Ozzie has been posting these stories on his Facebook page (looking for fan sympathy?).

Do I recall correctly that his last extension came as that ugly 2007 season was winding down? The man is all about timing, eh?

khan
09-22-2010, 01:33 PM
Really bad/stupid timing by Ozzie. This is just moronic on his part.

At the same time, it's no surprise [to this observer, anyway] that the Ozzpologists are already out in force manufacturing excuses for their hero. [Exactly WHY do Ozzpologists think that Cowley wrote this, when it's in the trib, the USA Today, and ORIGINATED on The Score?]


For my part, I've been a fan of Ozzie's work as a player and as a manager. He's done great things here. And his Fire and Passion for the White Sox is unequalled. His talent as a manager and his knowledge of the game is excellent.

Having said that, I believe that his ego and relative lack of education makes him accomplish less than he should; It also makes him do stupid **** like this. I believe that his affinity for ****ty players [like Kotsay] is a weakness. I believe that he has a poor ability to scout his own team at times. I believe that he does not always deploy his team's assets appropriately.

I also believe he's made some colossal blunders in this year alone [and in other years]. Besides the Kotsay instead of Thome thing, his insistence on PLAYING Kotsay/AJ instead of the youngsters at this point is beyond excuses, IMO.


All told, if he stays, he'd better change some of his ways if he wants to be the type of manager he COULD be. If he goes, I wouldn't be surprised if HE succeeds elsewhere, AND the SOX find a manager AS GOOD, if not BETTER than he.

Hitmen77
09-22-2010, 01:47 PM
I want Ozzie to come back, but even I agree the timing here is all wrong.

Seems a typical Cowley ploy to stir the dirt.

I like Kenny's idea of a playoff team in 2011 to lock in Ozzie's option/extension.

:?: The article is from the Chicago Tribune.

Corlose 15
09-22-2010, 01:48 PM
I think it's perfectly fine for Ozzie to ask what the organization's long term plans or for him going forward since him having to win the division for an option to kick in does place a lot of pressure on him. Furthermore, it puts him into a position where the players are directly playing for his job and he probably doesn't want that to be the situation.


That said, now isn't the time for him to bring it up.

dickallen15
09-22-2010, 01:52 PM
I think it's perfectly fine for Ozzie to ask what the organization's long term plans or for him going forward since him having to win the division for an option to kick in does place a lot of pressure on him. Furthermore, it puts him into a position where the players are directly playing for his job and he probably doesn't want that to be the situation.


That said, now isn't the time for him to bring it up.

Just like everyone else, if he does the job he was hired to do, win, his words, not mine, he will always have a job. Why would a team commit long term to him when he very easily can alienate anyone in a heartbeat?

The Ozzie guys should consider themselves lucky he has lasted this long, and he's contractually obligated to the White Sox next season and if they win the division 2012 as well. I'm sure there are a lot of people that would love to be in his position. If its not good enough for him, which I find hard to believe what with how many times he's pointed out he's rich and doesn't need the money, he can go someplace else. The soap opera has to end for everyone's sake.

kittle42
09-22-2010, 01:53 PM
My tolerance for this crap is at an end. Form your own damn opinion, don't comment on mine.

But your opinion is so bad...:cool:

Corlose 15
09-22-2010, 02:06 PM
Just like everyone else, if he does the job he was hired to do, win, his words, not mine, he will always have a job. Why would a team commit long term to him when he very easily can alienate anyone in a heartbeat?

The Ozzie guys should consider themselves lucky he has lasted this long, and he's contractually obligated to the White Sox next season and if they win the division 2012 as well. I'm sure there are a lot of people that would love to be in his position. If its not good enough for him, which I find hard to believe what with how many times he's pointed out he's rich and doesn't need the money, he can go someplace else. The soap opera has to end for everyone's sake.

Right, and like everyone else, he has the right to ask his employer what his long term prospects at the company/organization are.

DirtySox
09-22-2010, 02:07 PM
http://a2.twimg.com/profile_images/925738614/DSCN1905_normal.JPG (http://twitter.com/ChuckGarfien) ChuckGarfien (http://twitter.com/ChuckGarfien)
Ozzie Guillen doesn't need to win division in 2011 for team option to kick in. Sox can choose to bring him back for 2012 regardless. 1 minute ago (http://twitter.com/ChuckGarfien/status/25233359010) via TweetDeck (http://www.tweetdeck.com/)

LITTLE NELL
09-22-2010, 02:10 PM
Gee, I started a thread on this at 6:30 this AM and it got sent to the Roadhouse.
What gives?

dickallen15
09-22-2010, 02:21 PM
Right, and like everyone else, he has the right to ask his employer what his long term prospects at the company/organization are.
And if they tell him that can't promise him anything past next year? He can quit? He has a contract for next year. If they win, he automatically has a job in 2012. They can exercise the option anyway.

Sorry, but this is how baseball works. Walter Alston never had more than a one year contract. LaRussa has signed 7 or 8 contracts with St. Louis. Why does Ozzie need such a long committment unless some other team is perhaps offering that to him through back channels?

He talks about how much money he has and how he really doesn't need the job all the time. Why does he need to know what's happening in 2013 and beyond right now?

The guy always talks out of both sides of his mouth. I for one, am now hoping this is the time it blows up in his face.

twinsuck
09-22-2010, 02:30 PM
hell no.

Dan H
09-22-2010, 02:35 PM
Right, and like everyone else, he has the right to ask his employer what his long term prospects at the company/organization are.

I agree; he does have that right. However, this should be done privately. Otherwise, it appears to be more manipulation than anything else, espeically when done through the media.

Ozzie has to know that being fired is part of being a manager. And he must know his relationship with Williams is not workable. There is a motive to this public calling out. He wants out.

soltrain21
09-22-2010, 02:41 PM
I agree; he does have that right. However, this should be done privately. Otherwise, it appears to be more manipulation than anything else, espeically when done through the media.

Ozzie has to know that being fired is part of being a manager. And he must know his relationship with Williams is not workable. There is a motive to this public calling out. He wants out.

That is what I'm thinking, too.

SoxSpeed22
09-22-2010, 02:50 PM
It wouldn't surprise me if he ends up in Florida. One of the problems with this year was that a lot of them had their minds on something else. I think Ozzie is trying to see how badly the Sox want to keep him. It doesn't seem like it's that much. I can handle changes, if Kenny gets promoted, I can handle that too.
Edit: When you two men as stubborn as Ozzie and Kenny working together, eventually there's going to be fallout from it.

Corlose 15
09-22-2010, 03:07 PM
I agree; he does have that right. However, this should be done privately. Otherwise, it appears to be more manipulation than anything else, espeically when done through the media.

Ozzie has to know that being fired is part of being a manager. And he must know his relationship with Williams is not workable. There is a motive to this public calling out. He wants out.

Not only should this have been done privately but he should have waited until the off-season.

And if they tell him that can't promise him anything past next year? He can quit?

Of course he can quit. He can quit whenever he wants to for whatever reason. If he did the Sox wouldn't be obligated to pay him.

whitem0nkey
09-22-2010, 03:09 PM
I like Ozzie and would like to keep him, but if were in a position that its either KW or Ozzie I want to keep KW.

tsoxman
09-22-2010, 03:12 PM
And while they are at it, they might consider firing KW's ass for (a) waging a war of egos with his manager at the team's expense, and (b) the Swisher double fiasco and a few almost equally incomprehensible moves (taking on an over the hill 'roider who anyone could predict would take time to get back to hitting, that time being the critical period for which he was acquired, instead of one of the relievers that the Twins grabbed.)
Agree. Make the move now so that the new GM can pick his own manager while he still has some pieces to work with. From a personnel standpoint, this notion that you can sustain a winning team through the pickup of retreads and the leveraging of farmhands is complete garbage.

Rockabilly
09-22-2010, 03:23 PM
http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/george-ofman-thats-all-she-wrote/2010/09/ozzie-as-good-as-gone.html

Ozzie to Fla?

doublem23
09-22-2010, 03:26 PM
http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/george-ofman-thats-all-she-wrote/2010/09/ozzie-as-good-as-gone.html

George Offman connecting the dots that Ozzie owns a home in Miami and, hey, Miami has a baseball team! And he used to coach for them!

Wow, he's only like, 3 years behind the curve on that one. No wonder he has to blog for that collection of garbage the Trib keeps hawking.

Rockabilly
09-22-2010, 03:31 PM
If Ozzie does leave the Sox. I want Dave Martinez as the new Sox Mgr.

doublem23
09-22-2010, 03:33 PM
If Ozzie does leave the Sox. I want Dave Martinez as the new Sox Mgr.

Has Dave Martinez ever managed a game before?

Hitmen77
09-22-2010, 03:36 PM
Cmon, man! Everything is for a reason with Ozzie. He is taking the pressure off the team!

....or perhaps this is just a fabricated controversy for a new segment of the Sox reality show on MLB Network!

kobo
09-22-2010, 03:39 PM
If Ozzie does leave the Sox. I want Dave Martinez as the new Sox Mgr.
How about Joe Torre?

downstairs
09-22-2010, 03:44 PM
I like Ozzie, but its pretty classless to bring this up at this point. Especially the day after we're eliminated. And lost our 8th in a row.

Bring it up in a few weeks when the Sox season is over.

VMSNS
09-22-2010, 03:50 PM
I like Ozzie, but its pretty classless to bring this up at this point. Especially the day after we're eliminated. And lost our 8th in a row.

Bring it up in a few weeks when the Sox season is over.

In case you haven't noticed, Ozzie is pretty much the poster child for classless behavior.

TheOldRoman
09-22-2010, 03:59 PM
I like Ozzie, but its pretty classless to bring this up at this point. Especially the day after we're eliminated. And lost our 8th in a row.

Bring it up in a few weeks when the Sox season is over.I don't think it is classless. I think this is merely extremely stupid and devoid of tact. This is like saying "Hey boss, I just blew the multi million dollar international account because I showed up to the meeting drunk and exposed myself. Sorry about that. Anyway, I am gonna need a raise."

Rockabilly
09-22-2010, 04:02 PM
Has Dave Martinez ever managed a game before?

Actually, I believe he has.

DickAllen72
09-22-2010, 04:24 PM
Under his current deal, the Sox have an option for 2012 (which automatically vests if the Sox win the division next year). Apparently, Ozzie wants more than that.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/ct-spt-0922-white-sox-as-chicago--20100921,0,2031227.story

I haven't been a "Fire Ozzie" guy, but wouldn't be sorry to see him go. This team has been underachieving for 4 1/2 years now. Players come and go and it's the same results. ...It's time for a change.
He says he wants an extension as the Sox are currently on an eight game losing streak. Talk about arrogance. Talk about bad timing. Either he thinks he's "entitled" to be the Sox manager for life or he's trying to bring things to a head so that the Sox let him out of the final year of his contract.

I hope the Sox tell him that if he wants to resign go ahead but don't try to apply for another job anywhere in baseball for the next year. But JR won't do that. He'll kiss Ozzie's ass and either force KW to give him an extension or he'll let Ozzie take another manager's job somewhere assuming some other team is stupid enough to give him one.

Of course the best thing would be if JR just let's KW fire Ozzie next month.

tstrike2000
09-22-2010, 04:46 PM
Extension, what? Extension cord maybe to put around Oney's hands and mouth so he can never be heard from again.

happydude
09-22-2010, 05:11 PM
I agree; he does have that right. However, this should be done privately. Otherwise, it appears to be more manipulation than anything else, espeically when done through the media.

Ozzie has to know that being fired is part of being a manager. And he must know his relationship with Williams is not workable. There is a motive to this public calling out. He wants out.

That is what I'm thinking, too.

I agree with you guys. Ozzie may be crass but he's not stupid; he realizes the inappropriateness of the introduction of this issue at this point in time.

Someone earlier, it may have been Soltrain, made reference to relationships between lovers and I believe that is a good analogy.

Ozzie has been with the Sox, essentially, since he was a kid. It may be that he wants to go to Miami but is experiencing some mixed feelings due to his history here. Forcing the organization to, in essence, push him out may allow him to follow his current desires with a clearer conscience than if he simply resigned.

TheOldRoman
09-22-2010, 05:28 PM
I agree with you guys. Ozzie may be crass but he's not stupid; he realizes the inappropriateness of the introduction of this issue at this point in time.

Someone earlier, it may have been Soltrain, made reference to relationships between lovers and I believe that is a good analogy.

Ozzie has been with the Sox, essentially, since he was a kid. It may be that he wants to go to Miami but is experiencing some mixed feelings due to his history here. Forcing the organization to, in essence, push him out may allow him to follow his current desires with a clearer conscience than if he simply resigned.
:ozzie
"I, whoo... this is hard. This spring I will be taking my talents to South Beach."

happydude
09-22-2010, 05:31 PM
:ozzie
"I, whoo... this is hard. This spring I will be taking my talents to South Beach."

Lol!

mjmcend
09-22-2010, 05:35 PM
I agree with you guys. Ozzie may be crass but he's not stupid; he realizes the inappropriateness of the introduction of this issue at this point in time.

He is not stupid. He is just an ass. He wants to be fired so he can collect two paychecks or take a year's paid vacation.

I believe he chose the date deliberately and did it through the media to stir up as much **** as possible. **** him.

MtGrnwdSoxFan
09-22-2010, 06:34 PM
I was never a "Fire Ozzie" guy, until recently. How about we get a manager who doesn't bow to their team's biggest rivals and constantly kiss their ass? How about a manager who says "Our first goal is to beat everyone else in the AL Central, especially the Twins" and works to achieve that end?

Obviously, Ozzie's strategy of "killing the Twins with kindness" leaves a LOT to be desired. Also, his insistence of having these craptacular players play almost a full season before deducing "oh, maybe we need someone better...but I'll still play them whenever I can".

It's gotten old to me, and I hope Ozzie is shown the door soon after this season ends.

happydude
09-22-2010, 07:37 PM
I was never a "Fire Ozzie" guy, until recently. How about we get a manager who doesn't bow to their team's biggest rivals and constantly kiss their ass? How about a manager who says "Our first goal is to beat everyone else in the AL Central, especially the Twins" and works to achieve that end?

Obviously, Ozzie's strategy of "killing the Twins with kindness" leaves a LOT to be desired. Also, his insistence of having these craptacular players play almost a full season before deducing "oh, maybe we need someone better...but I'll still play them whenever I can".

It's gotten old to me, and I hope Ozzie is shown the door soon after this season ends.

This one aspect of Ozzie's "approach" has been my biggest gripe for years running; between he and Hawk I just can't stand it. At first I just assumed he was praising them as some kind of psychological ploy to kick start our team but over time it has simply become nauseating.

cards press box
09-22-2010, 08:07 PM
I've defended Ozzie for years but honestly, I'm just exhausted. What I wouldn't give for a Gardenhire/Maddon type. Boring, a little crusty, just wins.

It is a paradox but the strengths that a manager brings to a ballclub will often make the manager expendable. For example, many teams hired Billy Martin as their manager to light a fire under a lethargic club. Billy's fire and hustle usually worked for a while and his teams always played better initially. Unfortunately, Martin's act also got old after a while. His teams would stop listening to him and the club would eventually need to bring in a new skipper, ususally someone a lot more low key. The best example of this was the Yankees hiring Martin, firing him and bringing in Bob Lemon.

And that is ususally the way it works with managers. It is very rare for a manager to have the best skills of both the laid back managers and the fiery guys and to endure for more than a decade. After all, how many managers last with one club for ten years or more? Walter Alston did it. Al Lopez did with the Sox. Casey Stengel did but he had Mantle and Berra and those Yanks won every year.

Jerry Manuel was probably too laid back and the fiery Ozzie Guillen replaced him. If Ozzie goes, I suspect that the next Sox manager will be a low key one.

If Ozzie does leave the Sox. I want Dave Martinez as the new Sox Mgr.

If Ozzie leaves, Dave Martinez, Joe Maddon or Joey Cora all seem to be viable alternatives.

soltrain21
09-22-2010, 08:08 PM
It is a paradox but the strengths that a manager brings to a ballclub will often make the manager expendable. For example, many teams hired Billy Martin as their manager to light a fire under a lethargic club. Billy's fire and hustle usually worked for a while and his teams always played better initially. Unfortunately, Martin's act also got old after a while. His teams would stop listening to him and the club would eventually need to bring in a new skipper, ususally someone a lot more low key. The best example of this was the Yankees hiring Martin, firing him and bringing in Bob Lemon.

And that is ususally the way it works with managers. It is very rare for a manager to have the best skills of both the laid back managers and the fiery guys and to endure for more than a decade. After all, how many managers last with one club for ten years or more? Walter Alston did it. Al Lopez did with the Sox. Casey Stengel did but he had Mantle and Berra and those Yanks won every year.

Jerry Manuel was probably too laid back and the fiery Ozzie Guillen replaced him. If Ozzie goes, I suspect that the next Sox manager will be a low key one.



If Ozzie leaves, Dave Martinez, Joe Maddon or Joey Cora all seem to be viable alternatives.


Why would Joe Maddon come here?

Daver
09-22-2010, 08:10 PM
The Fire Ozzie tag was created at my request the day Ozzie was hired, for what it is worth.

Brian26
09-22-2010, 08:21 PM
If Ozzie leaves, Dave Martinez, Joe Maddon or Joey Cora all seem to be viable alternatives.


Why would Joe Maddon come here?

Maddon is available? Give him a blank check, and I'll go pick him up at the airport.

Red Barchetta
09-22-2010, 09:08 PM
Maddon is available? Give him a blank check, and I'll go pick him up at the airport.

I live in Sarasota. I will pick him up and drive him to the airport if you can coordinate the pickup in Chicago! :D:

TheOldRoman
09-22-2010, 09:11 PM
The Fire Ozzie tag was created at my request the day Ozzie was hired, for what it is worth.:rolleyes: Because you had such a large sample size to judge that he was a horrible manager?

A. Cavatica
09-22-2010, 09:12 PM
Ozzie did lead us to the NL pennant in 2010.

veeter
09-22-2010, 09:17 PM
:rolleyes: Because you had such a large sample size to judge that he was a horrible manager?Maybe Daver was one of many, many people who were slightly offended when Ozzie said he didn't owe the fans anything, when he was a player.

CLR01
09-22-2010, 09:25 PM
Give him a 5 year extension in Miami, please. Bum

Tragg
09-22-2010, 09:31 PM
If Ozzie leaves, Dave Martinez, Joe Maddon or Joey Cora all seem to be viable alternatives.[/FONT][/COLOR]


I've got to stop eating while reading the internet.

Almost had to get someone to give me the Heimlich Maneuver.

asindc
09-22-2010, 09:50 PM
I liked Ozzie as a player and as a manager. Hell, the Sox won a World Series under him, so I'll always be grateful for that.

But if he were to leave, it wouldn't break my heart...

... If Ozzie is the Sox' manager on Opening Day next season, that's fine. But if he's managing the Marlins, that's cool, too.

My sentiments exactly, and I like Ozzie and don't mind most of his off-field antics.

Domeshot17
09-22-2010, 10:01 PM
I am all for a new manager. We have missed the playoffs 4 out of 5 years. That is pretty bad. Obviously, he and his family are a major distraction to the organization and his inability to get along with our GM is bad for the team. Add that to his off field blow ups (say what you want about being well times, you don't see any other ELITE managers doing this) and his losing mentality (always praising the twins) and it is just time for a change.

That said, I think Joey Cora will make a great manager, but not here. We need someone to completely change the culture in the clubhouse.

Daver
09-22-2010, 10:31 PM
:rolleyes: Because you had such a large sample size to judge that he was a horrible manager?

I watched his entire career as a player with the White Sox, none of it convinced me he had any business managing a team, and despite winning a World Series I still have that opinion. Ozzie was not a smart ballplayer, he didn't get any smarter when he hung up his spikes.

Frater Perdurabo
09-22-2010, 10:50 PM
I watched his entire career as a player with the White Sox, none of it convinced me he had any business managing a team, and despite winning a World Series I still have that opinion. Ozzie was not a smart ballplayer, he didn't get any smarter when he hung up his spikes.

I don't think he's gotten smarter during his managerial tenure, either.

I'm still willing to give him one more year. If he doesn't win the division in 2011, he needs to be canned.

PaleHoser
09-22-2010, 11:22 PM
Ozzie needs to go to Florida. The Marlins will be close to home and he'll get to manage in the National League.

Sox should consider hiring Harold Baines. He won't say a word and maybe he can teach our boys how to hit in the clutch.

thomas35forever
09-23-2010, 01:02 AM
I won't give my opinion on this, but the more stories I hear, the less likely I would be surprised if Ozzie is managing in Florida next spring.

cards press box
09-23-2010, 03:00 AM
Why would Joe Maddon come here?

Maddon is available? Give him a blank check, and I'll go pick him up at the airport.

I have no idea whether Maddon is available. I mentioned him as an example of the type of low key manager who should logically succeed Ozzie. Maddon is having a great run in Tampa and no doubt wants to win a championship there. But, you know, managers have won it all and decided to move on to greener pastures before. For example, Johnny Keane won the World Series with the 1964 Cardinals and immediately left to manage the losing team in that series, the New York Yankees.

I could see where Maddon would tire of having to face Goliath (the Yankee$, top payroll in MLB at $206 million) and the 3/4 Goliath (the Red Cubs, #2 in MLB at $160 million) every year with the team built on a $70 million budget, good for 19th the majors. I'm not blaming the Tampa management -- no one could draw well in that park. Tampa has had a great and productive farm system but free agency and arbitration make it very difficult to compete without a comparable budget to the teams in your division. Crawford will almost certainly leave after this year, as will Carlos Pena. B.J. Upton is getting close to his free agent year.

It's possible that Maddon may someday want to manage a team with greater financial resources than Tampa. The White Sox fall in that category.

I've got to stop eating while reading the internet.

Almost had to get someone to give me the Heimlich Maneuver.

Why? If the Sox believe that the team has stopped listening to Ozzie (and, as fans, we have absolutely no idea whether the players have tuned Ozzie out or whether management believes that to be the case), then Cora seems to be a logical successor.

Cora, like Dave Martinez and Maddon, is way more low key than Ozzie. Cora appears to have the patience to be a good teacher. The 2010 Sox have one of the best keystone combo's we have seen around here in quite a while. Cora played a major role in helping Beckham become a top 2nd baseman. Cora is: (a) smart, (b) not edgy, (c) a good teacher and (d) patient. I think he would make a very good manager, either here or somewhere else.

kufram
09-23-2010, 04:33 AM
I think Ozzie is great sometimes. He makes me laugh. He's fantastic for the media. He clearly loves the Sox. You can't take away the fact that he managed a World Series winner no matter how badly you want to. He's obviously well liked by his players... well, most of them.

A bit of a circus act but then Chicago is a bit of a circus.

If he leaves I will miss his quick wit and the laughs. If we get somebody like Joe Madden (we won't) then I won't miss him for long.

I like Joey Cora but I'm not sure a rookie manager is a good idea.

daveeym
09-23-2010, 08:58 AM
Just like everyone else, if he does the job he was hired to do, win, his words, not mine, he will always have a job. Why would a team commit long term to him when he very easily can alienate anyone in a heartbeat?

The Ozzie guys should consider themselves lucky he has lasted this long, and he's contractually obligated to the White Sox next season and if they win the division 2012 as well. I'm sure there are a lot of people that would love to be in his position. If its not good enough for him, which I find hard to believe what with how many times he's pointed out he's rich and doesn't need the money, he can go someplace else. The soap opera has to end for everyone's sake.

First rule of thumb, anyone who needs to frequently remind you of how rich they are isn't. I'd imagine his bar tab at Carmicheals alone has him up to his waist in debt. Then add on what his twittiot son has probably cost him and he's up to his neck.

roylestillman
09-23-2010, 10:36 AM
I have never been an Ozzie basher, and most of the time have defended him. I don't blame him for feeling out his options condsidering all the managerial openings that will be out there this year. I think the pros and cons lay out this way.

Let him go:

Almost like the nonsense up north, I think Ozzie is a believer in curses We can't win against the Twins. We play awful on the west coast. We don't play well until it warms up. All may have a grain of truth but to announce it in the pre-game interview before a series just sets up the defeat. The "Minnesota is better than we are" statement before the last series with the Twins was about the last straw for me. It plays with the players minds. It gives them excuses and it certainly gives the manager a way to cover his ass when it becomes a reality.

It is time for fresh ideas. Loyalty is a wonderful thing, but I think the insular nature of the Sox right now allows little in the way of innovation or criticism. On the players side, I do believe Ozzie through the years has played favorites and kept a permanent doghouse based on personal relationships and perceived loyalty.

This is not the National League. The AL plays under a different set of rules and one should set up one's team and manage in a way to maximize the advantages of those rules, and while you're at it, the home field. I'm not saying that Thome was the answer this year, but the revolving door of mediocracy didn't work.

Nepotism is a bad idea in politics and in business. That whole draft issue with Ozzie's son was an enourmous distraction and probably ended any hope of Kenny and Ozzie working together. The fact that Kenny had previously drafted his own son higher made matters worse. It's a basic conflict of interest and just results in bad feelings.

Keep him:

Ozzie can be one of the best at getting the most out of his players. The success of Bobby Jenks can be directly related to how he handled him in 2005, standing by him in the post season after he blew that save and bringing him back in the next game shored up his confidence all the way through this year. Calling Beckham "Bacon" as if he didn't know who he was was a way of taking him down a peg or two to get him ready for the disappointment that would come from going from college ball to the majors. I think he is a genius at customizing his approach to young players based on their personalities. Just don't get in his doghouse.

Any publicity is good publicity. The pre or post game Ozzie interview is as much of a staple on the evening news as the weather. Do you remember that with Jerry Manuel? He draws cameras like moths to a flame, keeping the Sox in the public eye and in return selling tickets. This also results in keeping the cameras and pressure away from players.

Weighing these factors as well as others, I'm afraid I fall on the side of let him go. I think he will win with another team. I bet that team can be the Marlins.

I shudder to think who our next manager will be given Jerry's track record in this matter.

FielderJones
09-23-2010, 10:41 AM
Weighing these factors as well as others, I'm afraid I fall on the side of let him go. I think he will win with another team. I bet that team can be the Marlins.

I shudder to think who our next manager will be given Jerry's track record in this matter.

:scratch: This makes no sense. Based on the crap we've had in the past, and the likelihood of getting more in the future, you want to let Ozzie go?

I don't get how having a revolving door at manager is good for a team's postseason prospects.

DirtySox
09-23-2010, 11:36 AM
Both Kenny and Jerry have said that if Ozzie wants out, he can walk.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/ct-spt-0923-haugh-white-sox-chicago--20100922,0,5908151.column

tstrike2000
09-23-2010, 11:46 AM
Both Kenny and Jerry have said that if Ozzie wants out, he can walk.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/ct-spt-0923-haugh-white-sox-chicago--20100922,0,5908151.column

I'll hold the door.

Rocky Soprano
09-23-2010, 11:53 AM
Both Kenny and Jerry have said that if Ozzie wants out, he can walk.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/ct-spt-0923-haugh-white-sox-chicago--20100922,0,5908151.column

Great article and great move by KW and Jerry.
The ball is in Ozzie's court and I think his ego is too large to back down from his demands of getting an extension. He wants to go to Miami and the Sox don't care.

I hope the door hits him in the ass on the way out.

dickallen15
09-23-2010, 11:55 AM
Great article and great move by KW and Jerry.
The ball is in Ozzie's court and I think his ego is too large to back down from his demands of getting an extension. He wants to go to Miami and the Sox don't care.

I hope the door hits him in the ass on the way out.

No, he'll cave and be back. Ozzie is trying to be macho and it looks like it will backfire. His tune will totally change when the message is delivered.

Rocky Soprano
09-23-2010, 12:01 PM
No, he'll cave and be back. Ozzie is trying to be macho and it looks like it will backfire. His tune will totally change when the message is delivered.

I don't know if Ozzie can handle being back next year knowing that if he doesn't win the division next year that it all but stamps his ticket out of here. You know the media will be bringing that up all year long and I don't think Ozzie can work under those circumstances. He keeps saying he doesn't care about the money but wants some security, so I take it that if Miami offers a long term deal he will bolt and then say that the Sox didn't want to include him in their long term plans and he had to look out for his family.

TheOldRoman
09-23-2010, 12:26 PM
If this is the end, and hopefully it is, I hope it goes down quickly. I don't want this crap dragging on.

kufram
09-23-2010, 12:36 PM
Of course anyone can read anything they want into comments made by people to the press. None of it actually means anything. Ozzie might have been planting manipulative seeds or he just might have been answering a media question Ozzie-style... with whatever came into his head at the time.

I'm not convinced we have The Great OG/KW War that some believe in. What I do know is that OG, KW, and JR have a long history and they will probably work out what it is going to be when the time comes pretty amicably.

Anybody that has the choice of a 1-2 ¥ear contract, even with friends, or a long term contract... is going to go for long term. Who wouldn't?

I, for one, would like to know who the possible replacements were before letting my manager go.

russ99
09-23-2010, 12:41 PM
Great article and great move by KW and Jerry.
The ball is in Ozzie's court and I think his ego is too large to back down from his demands of getting an extension. He wants to go to Miami and the Sox don't care.

I hope the door hits him in the ass on the way out.

Read the article. Some people just love to put words in his mouth.

All he wanted to know is if he was wanted here after all the rumors going around about him being fired.

He got that from Jerry and Kenny, issue over.

RedHeadPaleHoser
09-23-2010, 12:45 PM
If this is the end, and hopefully it is, I hope it goes down quickly. I don't want this crap dragging on.

+1

You have a contract through next season. Honor it and shut up.

If JR and KW want this to be over now, let him go, give him his $ and move on. We don't need drama in the front office when all we want is wins on the field.

khan
09-23-2010, 12:47 PM
Read the article. Some people just love to put words in his mouth.

All he wanted to know is if he was wanted here after all the rumors going around about him being fired.

He got that from Jerry and Kenny, issue over.

Holy Dog ****!!!

The original quotes came DIRECTLY from Ozzie's mouth! Neither Cowley, nor any other writer practiced any form of ventriloquism to create these quotes. NO ONE, other than Ozzie, said these stupid things at this stupid time. HE HIMSELF made this mess, and no one else.

How far are you willing to contort reality to suit your skewed view?

Domeshot17
09-23-2010, 12:48 PM
The bottom line is Ozzie has done nothing to earn his extension. I actually like the Win the central or go home approach next year. Make Ozzie back up his talk, and if he misses the playoffs for the 5th time in 6 years, he deserves to be axed.

Just because we can't be the Yankees or Red Sox doesn't mean we should be content being some mediocre club that makes the playoffs once or twice a decade.

RedHeadPaleHoser
09-23-2010, 12:51 PM
Just because we can't be the Yankees or Red Sox doesn't mean we should be content being some mediocre club that makes the playoffs once or twice a decade.

Well said.

russ99
09-23-2010, 12:54 PM
Holy Dog ****!!!

The original quotes came DIRECTLY from Ozzie's mouth! Neither Cowley, nor any other writer practiced any form of ventriloquism to create these quotes. NO ONE, other than Ozzie, said these stupid things at this stupid time. HE HIMSELF made this mess, and no one else.

How far are you willing to contort reality to suit your skewed view?

Did you read the three paragraphs starting ""He's the general manager"?

How is that skewing the view? Nothing in there says he's bolting to Florida. But all the other parts written by the sportswriter are supposition, and not what Ozzie said.

It's obvious you want him to leave, so anyone who thinks otherwise is skewing reality.

Rocky Soprano
09-23-2010, 12:55 PM
Read the article. Some people just love to put words in his mouth.

All he wanted to know is if he was wanted here after all the rumors going around about him being fired.

He got that from Jerry and Kenny, issue over.


I read the article and that is why I said it was great.
Your blind love for Ozzie is as crazy as Oney is.

dickallen15
09-23-2010, 12:56 PM
Read the article. Some people just love to put words in his mouth.

All he wanted to know is if he was wanted here after all the rumors going around about him being fired.

He got that from Jerry and Kenny, issue over.

Is there anything Ozzie Guillen could possibly do that you would find fault with? If it was as simple as you say, why wouldn't he just go ask JR and KW, people he deals with everyday, what the deal was? He used the press. Its no consipracy against Ozzie. He was the one who started it because apparently as rich as he is and as much as he doesn't need the money, which he has told us many, many times, he's paranoid about being around one year. He needs to stop acting like a child starved for attention.

One of the columns actually made a good point. What would Ozzie say about a player crying about an extension while having a poor year in the middle of a slump? If CQ started griping about security right now, what do you suppose Ozzeroo would say? The same rules apparently don't apply to him.

russ99
09-23-2010, 01:08 PM
Is there anything Ozzie Guillen could possibly do that you would find fault with? If it was as simple as you say, why wouldn't he just go ask JR and KW, people he deals with everyday, what the deal was? He used the press. Its no consipracy against Ozzie. He was the one who started it because apparently as rich as he is and as much as he doesn't need the money, which he has told us many, many times, he's paranoid about being around one year. He needs to stop acting like a child starved for attention.

Of course I find fault with things Ozzie says and does, but in this case I'm looking at the big picture, which is we're much worse off without Ozzie than with him, despite his foibles.

For example: His comment about Nancy, his reliance on lefty-righty matchups when that doesn't often work, Running Jenks out when it's obvious he's playing hurt and Omar in the lineup when it was obvious he was wearing down, his Sunday lineups etc.

One of the columns actually made a good point. What would Ozzie say about a player crying about an extension while having a poor year in the middle of a slump? If CQ started griping about security right now, what do you suppose Ozzeroo would say? The same rules apparently don't apply to him.

That's a valid point, but that this is being brought up isn't entirely on him, with all the reports going around that he was going to be fired.

How would you react if that happened with your job? Would you go to the boss and ask for clarity?

Sadly in sports these days those things are aired out in the press when usually they should not be, partially of which is due to Ozzie and the team being in Oakland and Kenny and Jerry in Chicago.

And I agree, Ozzie's said his case, this should be discussed further in private.

SI1020
09-23-2010, 01:10 PM
Did you read the three paragraphs starting ""He's the general manager"?

How is that skewing the view? Nothing in there says he's bolting to Florida. But all the other parts written by the sportswriter are supposition, and not what Ozzie said.

It's obvious you want him to leave, so anyone who thinks otherwise is skewing reality. What is this then?

I want Ozzie to come back, but even I agree the timing here is all wrong.

Seems a typical Cowley ploy to stir the dirt.

I like Kenny's idea of a playoff team in 2011 to lock in Ozzie's option/extension.

russ99
09-23-2010, 01:13 PM
What is this then?

Yesterday's article, which was by Cowley in the Sun-Times. And yes, I still like Kenny's idea about the option.

dickallen15
09-23-2010, 01:14 PM
Of course I find fault with things Ozzie says and does, but in this case I'm looking at the big picture, which is we're much worse off without Ozzie than with him, despite his foibles.

For example: His comment about Nancy, his reliance on lefty-righty matchups when that doesn't often work, Running Jenks out when it's obvious he's playing hurt and Omar in the lineup when it was obvious he was wearing down, his Sunday lineups etc.



That's a valid point, but that this is being brought up isn't entirely on him, with all the reports going around that he was going to be fired.

How would you react if that happened with your job? Would you go to the boss and ask for clarity?

Sadly in sports these days those things are aired out in the press when usually they should not be, partially of which is due to Ozzie and the team being in Oakland and Kenny and Jerry in Chicago.

And I agree, Ozzie's said his case, this should be discussed further in private.
It has nothing to do with the Sox in Oakland. They were in Chicago last week, Ozzie has a cellphone, there are no excuses for Ozzie airing his piece unless he's looking for press and public support.

If anything, I think this tells us Oney and Ozzie Jr. cost Ozzie a lot more money than he anticipated. Maybe he should tell them the bank is closed.

As far as I can tell Ozzie has a contract worth pretty decent money for next year and a team option after that. You asked me if I would ask for clarity? Perhaps, I don't know, I'm not on a contract, but I would ask my boss, not air it out for the whole company to view.

khan
09-23-2010, 01:17 PM
Did you read the three paragraphs starting ""He's the general manager"?
And did you hear Ozzie say [in the ORIGINAL INTERVIEW] that there would be other doors open to him? Again, OZZIE caused this whole bull****.

How is that skewing the view? Nothing in there says he's bolting to Florida. But all the other parts written by the sportswriter are supposition, and not what Ozzie said.
What Ozzie could have said was, "I'm the manager of the Chicago White Sox until I hear otherwise. I love it here, and I want to win here again."

Instead, he made it all about his own avarice and his own ambitions, not that of the team.


It's obvious you want him to leave, so anyone who thinks otherwise is skewing reality.
And it's obvious you haven't bothered to listen to the original interview, so you are [once again] forming an uninformed opinion.

I DID listen to the original interview twice. [So as to give Ozzie the benefit of the doubt.] There is NO mistaking that he is in the wrong here [to a reasonable person, anyway]. There is NO mistaking that he is putting himself first and the team second.


Again, for the record, I am ambivalent about Ozzie's return. Anyone who has read my repsonses to this story would know that, unless you read imaginary posts instead of REAL posts.

If he stays, he needs to grow his ass up, and act like a man, not an adolescent. If he stays, he needs to change some of his ways. [And the same goes for KW, too, BTW.]

If he goes, there will be quality baseball men available to step in.

russ99
09-23-2010, 01:22 PM
And did you hear Ozzie say [in the ORIGINAL INTERVIEW] that there would be other doors open to him? Again, OZZIE caused this whole bull****.

What Ozzie could have said was, "I'm the manager of the Chicago White Sox until I hear otherwise. I love it here, and I want to win here again."

Instead, he made it all about his own avarice and his own ambitions, not that of the team.

And it's obvious you haven't bothered to listen to the original interview, so you are [once again] forming an uninformed opinion.

I DID listen to the original interview twice. [So as to give Ozzie the benefit of the doubt.] There is NO mistaking that he is in the wrong here [to a reasonable person, anyway]. There is NO mistaking that he is putting himself first and the team second.

Again, for the record, I am ambivalent about Ozzie's return. Anyone who has read my repsonses to this story would know that, unless you read imaginary posts instead of REAL posts.

If he stays, he needs to grow his ass up, and act like a man, not an adolescent. If he stays, he needs to change some of his ways. [And the same goes for KW, too, BTW.]

If he goes, there will be quality baseball men available to step in.


Unreal. Read this article:

http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2010/09/ozzie-guillen-i-want-to-be-here-as-long-as-i-can.html

How is this about Ozzie's avarice and ambitions?

The guy wants job security, plain and simple. I'm hopeful one year with reasonable conditions for the second are enough for him.

BTW: real posts are people having informed opinions and reasonably discussing them, not this angry mob that wants Ozzie tarred and feathered before he's driven out of town.

khan
09-23-2010, 01:23 PM
For example: His comment about Nancy, his reliance on lefty-righty matchups when that doesn't often work, Running Jenks out when it's obvious he's playing hurt and Omar in the lineup when it was obvious he was wearing down, his Sunday lineups etc.
WOW! I'm not kidding, but this is the FIRST TIME I've seen you post anything remotely critical of Ozzie. Congradulations! You're evolving!

That's a valid point, but that this is being brought up isn't entirely on him, with all the reports going around that he was going to be fired.

How would you react if that happened with your job? Would you go to the boss and ask for clarity?

Sadly in sports these days those things are aired out in the press when usually they should not be, partially of which is due to Ozzie and the team being in Oakland and Kenny and Jerry in Chicago.

And I agree, Ozzie's said his case, this should be discussed further in private.
But Ozzie didn't do that, did he, O double-talking Ozziephile? He used the press to put HIMSELF first, and the team second.

Yet, you posted that others are "putting words in his mouth," or "Cowley's stirring up dirt," among other ridiculous and baseless contortions of reality.


Just accept the fact that Ozzie [once again] ****ed up, and move on. Whether he stays or goes is immaterial, IMO. He should just shut his pie hole, work HARD, and then be a BIG BOY and talk to JR and KW LIKE A MAN.

khan
09-23-2010, 01:28 PM
Unreal. Read this article:

http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2010/09/ozzie-guillen-i-want-to-be-here-as-long-as-i-can.html

How is this about Ozzie's avarice and ambitions?
Better yet: Go to the Score's website, and listen to Ozzie [once again] embarass himself. Had he NEVER opened his pie hole in the FIRST PLACE, he'd have no reason for the Mea Culpa you're referring to here.

Have you even bothered to listen to HIS WORDS yet? Or are you living in a dream world where that didn't happen?


The guy wants job security, plain and simple. I'm hopeful one year with reasonable conditions for the second are enough for him.
So he should have been a BIG BOY, and taken his ass down to JR's and KW's offices and discussed that. IN PRIVATE. Not via the press.

For ****'s sake he's supposedly a man pushing FIFTY YEARS OLD, not a 14 year old high schooler!

BTW: real posts are people having informed opinions and reasonably discussing them, not this angry mob that wants Ozzie tarred and feathered before he's driven out of town.
Yes, so go listen to Ozzie run his pie hole, and then you'll be informed. You clearly haven't done so.

You also have a hard time reading real posts, because I haven't called for Ozzie being tarred, feathered, or driven out of town. In fact, the post of mine you quoted stated:

..."Again, for the record, I am ambivalent about Ozzie's return. Anyone who has read my repsonses to this story would know that, unless you read imaginary posts instead of REAL posts.

If he stays, he needs to grow his ass up, and act like a man, not an adolescent. If he stays, he needs to change some of his ways. [And the same goes for KW, too, BTW.]

If he goes, there will be quality baseball men available to step in."

GoGoCrede
09-23-2010, 01:33 PM
What is this thread I don't even

dickallen15
09-23-2010, 01:41 PM
Unreal. Read this article:

http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2010/09/ozzie-guillen-i-want-to-be-here-as-long-as-i-can.html

How is this about Ozzie's avarice and ambitions?

The guy wants job security, plain and simple. I'm hopeful one year with reasonable conditions for the second are enough for him.

BTW: real posts are people having informed opinions and reasonably discussing them, not this angry mob that wants Ozzie tarred and feathered before he's driven out of town.
If he needs more security to work the balance of his contract, why did he agree to the contract in the first place? A deal is a deal, if he doesn't like it, leave. The Sox will be better off with a manager not so concerned about his bank account.

Domeshot17
09-23-2010, 01:45 PM
I am guessing Scott Linebrink wants more Job Security as well....I am sure Bobby Jenks would take some....

If we make the players earn their contracts on performance presently (both Jenks and Linebrink were ELITE back end RP 4 years ago) I don't see how the coach is any different.

jdm2662
09-23-2010, 01:46 PM
I am guessing Scott Linebrink wants more Job Security as well....

So would I. It doesn't mean I will get it...

soltrain21
09-23-2010, 02:01 PM
Yesterday's article, which was by Cowley in the Sun-Times. And yes, I still like Kenny's idea about the option.

STILL?! Cowley didn't write that ****ing article yesterday and it wasn't in the Sun Times. Now you are just flat out trying to lie about things that we can EASILY know is wrong.

russ99
09-23-2010, 02:22 PM
STILL?! Cowley didn't write that ****ing article yesterday and it wasn't in the Sun Times. Now you are just flat out trying to lie about things that we can EASILY know is wrong.

I buy the Sun-Times every day, and yesterday there was an article by Cowley about that, alongside one that was a straight report. So, how is that wrong??

Besides, I'm done talking about this stuff, why the hell do I need to justify myself 15 times in one thread?

This board is about the Sox, not about me.

soltrain21
09-23-2010, 02:27 PM
I buy the Sun-Times every day, and yesterday there was an article by Cowley about that, alongside one that was a straight report. So, how is that wrong??

Besides, I'm done talking about this stuff, why the hell do I need to justify myself 15 times in one thread?

This board is about the Sox, not about me.

Because the article every single person in here has been talking about is not Cowleys article and it featured direct quotes from Ozzie. You've been trying to spin it as bad journalism against Oz when it's not.

Nellie_Fox
09-23-2010, 02:36 PM
I don't know if Ozzie can handle being back next year knowing that if he doesn't win the division next year that it all but stamps his ticket out of here.Where do you get that? From WSI posters? Because I haven't heard KW or Reinsdorf say anything like that.

TheOldRoman
09-23-2010, 02:57 PM
Where do you get that? From WSI posters? Because I haven't heard KW or Reinsdorf say anything like that.Kenny isn't going on record with anything, but him ready to let Ozzie go into a lame duck year says enough. The only way Ozzie sticks around in 2012 is if the Sox win the division next year, causing the option to kick in. If anything short of a division title was good enough to keep him around longer they would be looking at doing the extension.

Rocky Soprano
09-23-2010, 03:35 PM
Kenny isn't going on record with anything, but him ready to let Ozzie go into a lame duck year says enough. The only way Ozzie sticks around in 2012 is if the Sox win the division next year, causing the option to kick in. If anything short of a division title was good enough to keep him around longer they would be looking at doing the extension.

Exactly how I see things.
Nellie, I am saying I.

Tragg
09-23-2010, 06:52 PM
Why? If the Sox believe that the team has stopped listening to Ozzie (and, as fans, we have absolutely no idea whether the players have tuned Ozzie out or whether management believes that to be the case), then Cora seems to be a logical successor.


I don't think "stop listening to Ozzie" is the problem. I think it is old, tired players, handpicked by Ozzie and Kenny that are the problem.

Cora's done a decent job as Ozzie's chief yes-man I guess. But I'd prefer someone fresh.

A. Cavatica
09-23-2010, 09:03 PM
If (shudder) Ozzie is back I hope KW gives him a whole team of Mark Kotsays. Make sure that option doesn't vest.

CLR01
09-23-2010, 09:19 PM
...Williams' loud candor in Guillen's office upset the manager enough that Guillen was seen marching through the building to Reinsdorf's office as upset as some ever have seen him....

:tantrum: :whiner: :tantrum: :whiner: :tantrum:


What a spoiled little baby.

MtGrnwdSoxFan
09-23-2010, 09:24 PM
If (shudder) Ozzie is back I hope KW gives him a whole team of Mark Kotsays. Make sure that option doesn't vest.

Yeah, because we'd rather set Ozzie up to fail and set the franchise back 5 years rather than contend for a playoff spot. The fans will surely eat that one up.

Also, I think Kenny's hide is on the line as much as Ozzie's is, so if that's the case, Kenny will get the best players he can and tell Ozzie "If you want to stick around here, you'll play these guys."

I hope he's gone next year. I really do. But if they make the decision to stick with him, I'll back them on it. However, I would do it with the caveat that if he fails to get the team ready for divisional games, he WILL be gone in-season...Ozzie and the Sox have been putrid against the Central the last couple of years, and that is the main reason why we're sitting on our asses playing out the string instead of being in a neck-and-neck struggle for the ALC crown with the Twins right now.

Viva Medias B's
09-23-2010, 09:43 PM
The more I think about this, the more convinced I become that both of them should be gone. We need a housecleaning.

captain54
09-24-2010, 01:18 AM
The more I think about this, the more convinced I become that both of them should be gone. We need a housecleaning.

I would completely agree with you, except the JR Regime also hired Hawk as the GM and Terry Bevington as the manager some years back, so I shudder to think who might possibly replace KW and Ozzie if they are launched.

DirtySox
09-24-2010, 12:02 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v691/DertyFoot/5018921315_19555838fd_b.jpg

Domeshot17
09-24-2010, 12:19 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v691/dertyfoot/5018921315_19555838fd_b.jpg

qft potw

TheOldRoman
09-24-2010, 01:08 PM
qft potwzomg ino lol ttly

canOcorn
09-24-2010, 01:14 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v691/DertyFoot/5018921315_19555838fd_b.jpg

Looks like Carl gets it.

SoxandtheCityTee
09-24-2010, 04:37 PM
Cash is nice, but with Ozzie I'm not sure it's the only thing. Ever work as part of a team on a project that in the end didn't come off well? Some people hide, avoiding the boss, thinking maybe everyone will forget they were involved. Others buckle down, say let's do better next time, let the mistakes go.

Then there's the one person who stomps into the boss's office and demands a public vote of confidence, a raise, or both. "If you think this was all my fault tell me right now, and if you don't, then I want you to say that to everyone!" The rest of the team shakes their heads.

Meanwhile: Kenny got divorced this year. Whatever you think of him (and I had to force myself to watch some parts of The Club) it can be a very stressful experience and, for some people, there's a profound feeling of failure. Maybe KW's not in the mood right now, if ever he was, for the drama. Bad timing all around.

DirtySox
09-25-2010, 07:49 PM
http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/1130468780/9-15_20Lachat_20cowley_201_normal.jpg (http://twitter.com/cst_sox) cst_sox (http://twitter.com/cst_sox)
Oz said the Cubs are an option if the Sox don't want him. The days of the Chairman having to be dead for that to happen are over. 13 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/cst_sox/status/25540160823) via ÜberTwitter (http://www.ubertwitter.com/bb/download.php)

http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/1130468780/9-15_20Lachat_20cowley_201_normal.jpg (http://twitter.com/cst_sox) cst_sox (http://twitter.com/cst_sox)
"As soon as you get divorced then you are free to do what you want - yes I would [go the the Cubs] ... '' Oz 1 minute ago (http://twitter.com/cst_sox/status/25541384229) via tweetz (http://blueonionsoftware.com/tweetz.aspx)

Viva Medias B's
09-25-2010, 07:54 PM
If Ozzie stays for 2011, would KW "not go all out" to build a team capable of winning the AL Central?

SoxandtheCityTee
09-25-2010, 08:16 PM
http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/1130468780/9-15_20Lachat_20cowley_201_normal.jpg (http://twitter.com/cst_sox) cst_sox (http://twitter.com/cst_sox)
Oz said the Cubs are an option if the Sox don't want him. The days of the Chairman having to be dead for that to happen are over. 13 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/cst_sox/status/25540160823) via ÜberTwitter (http://www.ubertwitter.com/bb/download.php)

http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/1130468780/9-15_20Lachat_20cowley_201_normal.jpg (http://twitter.com/cst_sox) cst_sox (http://twitter.com/cst_sox)
"As soon as you get divorced then you are free to do what you want - yes I would [go the the Cubs] ... '' Oz 1 minute ago (http://twitter.com/cst_sox/status/25541384229) via tweetz (http://blueonionsoftware.com/tweetz.aspx)


What the hell? Is this thing spinning out of control faster than the team's season did, or was there stuff building up all year that wasn't publicly known? Or is it all just a joke? It's getting unfunny.

Viva Medias B's
09-25-2010, 09:07 PM
These ego trips by KW and Ozzie are ruining this team. I WISH BOTH WOULD GO AWAY!!!!

Domeshot17
09-25-2010, 09:19 PM
:bandance::bandance::bandance:Mark Kotsay says his future does not lie in Chicago!!!!! :bandance::bandance::bandance:

A. Cavatica
09-25-2010, 09:21 PM
:bandance::bandance::bandance:Mark Kotsay says his future does not lie in Chicago!!!!! :bandance::bandance::bandance:

He's going with Ozzie to the Marlins?

soltrain21
09-25-2010, 09:24 PM
http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/1130468780/9-15_20Lachat_20cowley_201_normal.jpg (http://twitter.com/cst_sox) cst_sox (http://twitter.com/cst_sox)
Oz said the Cubs are an option if the Sox don't want him. The days of the Chairman having to be dead for that to happen are over. 13 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/cst_sox/status/25540160823) via ÜberTwitter (http://www.ubertwitter.com/bb/download.php)

http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/1130468780/9-15_20Lachat_20cowley_201_normal.jpg (http://twitter.com/cst_sox) cst_sox (http://twitter.com/cst_sox)
"As soon as you get divorced then you are free to do what you want - yes I would [go the the Cubs] ... '' Oz 1 minute ago (http://twitter.com/cst_sox/status/25541384229) via tweetz (http://blueonionsoftware.com/tweetz.aspx)

Now he is just saying ****. Get rid of him. His obnoxiousness has reached a new level, and that's saying something.

soltrain21
09-26-2010, 12:01 AM
Okay, just actually saw the interview. Go away, Ozzie. You sound like a ****ing whiny baby brat.

LongLiveFisk
09-26-2010, 12:03 AM
Cubs fans wouldn't want him. They want "Ryno".

Andy T Clown
09-26-2010, 12:07 AM
This is all driven by the sports guys on TV. Ozzie is just trying to answer their questions and it is getting spun out of control.

Rikirk
09-26-2010, 12:10 AM
Give him back to the Marlins.

Rocky Soprano
09-26-2010, 12:12 AM
This is all driven by the sports guys on TV. Ozzie is just trying to answer their questions and it is getting spun out of control.

:rolleyes:

Yeah Ozzie being a dumb ass with diarrhea of the mouth has nothing to do with it.

CLR01
09-26-2010, 12:22 AM
This is all driven by the sports guys on TV. Ozzie is just trying to answer their questions and it is getting spun out of control.


This is all being driven because Ozzie is ****ing spoiled baby. It's not the media's fault he is too stupid to give the PC answer.

GoGoCrede
09-26-2010, 12:27 AM
What the hell is going on? I feel so far behind. Ozzie wants to go to the Cubs? Cool. Be sure to take Oney with you (since Oney did mention how much more loyal Cubs fans are, anyway)

P.S. Can Cowley go with him?

Nellie_Fox
09-26-2010, 12:50 AM
Jeez, people, cool off. These are seriously taken out of context. Ozzie has said that he would never choose to leave the Sox and go to the Cubs as long as Reinsdorf is alive. He was asked what if Reinsdorf told him he was not wanted on the Sox any more, and he replied that would be different, that he would consider any offer in that case, including the Cubs. That's not the same as saying he wants to manage the Cubs.

hi im skot
09-26-2010, 12:54 AM
Okay, just actually saw the interview. Go away, Ozzie. You sound like a ****ing whiny baby brat.

I think this is a complete non-story. Ozzie got baited by an Anaheim reporter and he totally went for it.

Ozzie is right -- if the White Sox decide not to keep him around, then sure, he should be able to take a job with whomever offers him a job, be it the Cubs or someone else.

I'm tired of the Ozzie/KW sideshow, but I really can't fault Guillen for this, especially since it's really just a make-story by someone stuck having to write about two non-playoff teams.

GoGoCrede
09-26-2010, 12:57 AM
Jeez, people, cool off. These are seriously taken out of context. Ozzie has said that he would never choose to leave the Sox and go to the Cubs as long as Reinsdorf is alive. He was asked what if Reinsdorf told him he was not wanted on the Sox any more, and he replied that would be different, that he would consider any offer in that case, including the Cubs. That's not the same as saying he wants to manage the Cubs.

I'll be sure to read the article next time. :redface: Sorry, Ozzie (but I meant what I said about hoping Cowley goes with him).

JB98
09-26-2010, 01:54 AM
I think this is a complete non-story. Ozzie got baited by an Anaheim reporter and he totally went for it.

Ozzie is right -- if the White Sox decide not to keep him around, then sure, he should be able to take a job with whomever offers him a job, be it the Cubs or someone else.

I'm tired of the Ozzie/KW sideshow, but I really can't fault Guillen for this, especially since it's really just a make-story by someone stuck having to write about two non-playoff teams.

Agree 100 percent. This is not a story. Alas, there are column inches that need to be filled, and these latest remarks by Ozzie will fill them.

LITTLE NELL
09-26-2010, 07:24 AM
I'm sick of Ozzie and his BS. Show this buffoon the door.
Let him go to the Cubs , they deserve each other.

asindc
09-26-2010, 12:01 PM
Yawn.

SoxandtheCityTee
09-26-2010, 12:14 PM
Agree 100 percent. This is not a story. Alas, there are column inches that need to be filled, and these latest remarks by Ozzie will fill them.


OK, that's better. I can't remember things being this nuts even in the Season Horribilus of 2007. I guess we have The Twitter (as Betty White says in that movie preview) to thank in additon to the usual suspects.

DickAllen72
09-26-2010, 12:18 PM
These ego trips by KW and Ozzie are ruining this team. I WISH BOTH WOULD GO AWAY!!!!
KW has nothing to do with the garbage in the media the past couple of weeks. This is all on Ozzie. So far KW is handling this latest nonsense from Ozzie the right way.

I hope JR lets KW fire Ozzie in October.

A. Cavatica
09-26-2010, 12:46 PM
KW has nothing to do with the garbage in the media the past couple of weeks. This is all on Ozzie. So far KW is handling this latest nonsense from Ozzie the right way.

I hope JR lets KW fire Ozzie in October.

Why wait?

russ99
09-27-2010, 09:34 AM
KW has nothing to do with the garbage in the media the past couple of weeks. This is all on Ozzie. So far KW is handling this latest nonsense from Ozzie the right way.

I hope JR lets KW fire Ozzie in October.

How is giving the manager an ultimatum considered nothing? He could have waited until the offseason for his "no extension unless we win next year" stance, which he also trumpeted to the media.

And once Ozzie made it known that he didn't know if he was wanted, Kenny could have nipped that in the bud, but he allowed it to fester in the media, which of course is primarily Ozzie's fault.

Sorry, but Kenny's not blameless here. His runaway ego is a significant part of why things are a mess with this team.

That's why I'm for either both staying (preferably) or none staying. If Ozzie goes, Kenny gets on an even bigger power trip. If Kenny goes, Ozzie thinks he can boss around everyone. Neither will work. If they both stay, both should be on notice for next season.

Hitmen77
09-27-2010, 09:58 AM
How is giving the manager an ultimatum considered nothing? He could have waited until the offseason for his "no extension unless we win next year" stance, which he also trumpeted to the media.

And once Ozzie made it known that he didn't know if he was wanted, Kenny could have nipped that in the bud, but he allowed it to fester in the media, which of course is primarily Ozzie's fault.

Sorry, but Kenny's not blameless here. His runaway ego is a significant part of why things are a mess with this team.

That's why I'm for either both staying (preferably) or none staying. If Ozzie goes, Kenny gets on an even bigger power trip. If Kenny goes, Ozzie thinks he can boss around everyone. Neither will work. If they both stay, both should be on notice for next season.

:rolleyes: KW not giving Ozzie an extension right now for 2012 is NOT "an ultimatum."

Rocky Soprano
09-27-2010, 10:05 AM
How is giving the manager an ultimatum considered nothing? He could have waited until the offseason for his "no extension unless we win next year" stance, which he also trumpeted to the media.

And once Ozzie made it known that he didn't know if he was wanted, Kenny could have nipped that in the bud, but he allowed it to fester in the media, which of course is primarily Ozzie's fault.

Sorry, but Kenny's not blameless here. His runaway ego is a significant part of why things are a mess with this team.

That's why I'm for either both staying (preferably) or none staying. If Ozzie goes, Kenny gets on an even bigger power trip. If Kenny goes, Ozzie thinks he can boss around everyone. Neither will work. If they both stay, both should be on notice for next season.

Wow!

Ozzie is the one that should have waited until the offseason to discuss his wishes for an extension. It his mouth that caused all of this. He's the one that signed the current contract so how about be a man of your word and honor it.

Your BLIND love for everything Ozzie is sickening.

russ99
09-27-2010, 10:13 AM
Wow!

Ozzie is the one that should have waited until the offseason to discuss his wishes for an extension. It his mouth that caused all of this. He's the one that signed the current contract so how about be a man of your word and honor it.

Your BLIND love for everything Ozzie is sickening.

Oh, please. The man wanted to know if he was going to be fired. Everything else has spiraled out of control due to poor handling of the situation by all involved - yes including Ozzie.

You love to play the Ozzie is a dunce and a bigmouth angle, but if things were handled right, it wouldn't have gotten to where it is now.

As for your other comment - whatever. I'm done with this board if everything I post is deemed tainted by some kind of bias, which is ridiculous. Might I add, that accusation can be leveled at yourself too.

Obviously, nobody can play the devil's advocate or have an opposing viewpoint here but must be in lockstep with the hateful majority.

Rocky Soprano
09-27-2010, 11:38 AM
Oh, please. The man wanted to know if he was going to be fired. Everything else has spiraled out of control due to poor handling of the situation by all involved - yes including Ozzie.

You love to play the Ozzie is a dunce and a bigmouth angle, but if things were handled right, it wouldn't have gotten to where it is now.

As for your other comment - whatever. I'm done with this board if everything I post is deemed tainted by some kind of bias, which is ridiculous. Might I add, that accusation can be leveled at yourself too.

Obviously, nobody can play the devil's advocate or have an opposing viewpoint here but must be in lockstep with the hateful majority.

You honestly think that Ozzie showed good judgement in asking for an extension or wanting to know if he was going to be fired now? The Sox had just choked the season away and it was the right time for him to want to have answers? He couldn't have waited a couple more weeks and asked in private?

You said it yourself, if things were handle right things wouldn't have gotten to where it is now. Who's the one that opened his mouth?

The only bias I have is that I want to see the Sox win. If that means shaking things up and moving people around so be it. I don't follow anyone on the Sox blindly.

SI1020
09-27-2010, 11:44 AM
As for your other comment - whatever. I'm done with this board if everything I post is deemed tainted by some kind of bias, which is ridiculous. Might I add, that accusation can be leveled at yourself too.
I disagree strongly with your stance on Ozzie. That being said sometimes we just have an affinity for a person, place or thing that is currently the subject of strong criticism. Why not just keep posting if you want to, and leave if you want to, but not let others dictate your choice. I've had my share of :rolleyes: and :rolling: directed at some of my posts. So what. If you like Ozzie then you like Ozzie. Up until fairly recently you had lots of company.

kobo
09-27-2010, 12:30 PM
How is giving the manager an ultimatum considered nothing? He could have waited until the offseason for his "no extension unless we win next year" stance, which he also trumpeted to the media.

And once Ozzie made it known that he didn't know if he was wanted, Kenny could have nipped that in the bud, but he allowed it to fester in the media, which of course is primarily Ozzie's fault.

Sorry, but Kenny's not blameless here. His runaway ego is a significant part of why things are a mess with this team.

That's why I'm for either both staying (preferably) or none staying. If Ozzie goes, Kenny gets on an even bigger power trip. If Kenny goes, Ozzie thinks he can boss around everyone. Neither will work. If they both stay, both should be on notice for next season.
An ultimatum? KW simply informed the media that Ozzie still has a contract for next season and that if the Sox win the division next year then the option year of 2012 will vest and Ozzie will be here in 2012. How is that an ultimatum when it's the contract Guillen signed?

Kenny is not blameless, that is correct, but Ozzie is the one who started this mess, and in my opinion chose a very bad time to open his mouth. The team was on a 8 game losing streak, they blew their chance to be in the race for the AL Central division title, and Ozzie starts going off about his future and being wanted, etc. In other words, Me Me Me at a time when he should have been focused on the team and getting them to play decent baseball the final couple weeks of the season. And while we praise Ozzie for the job he does by deflecting media attention away from his players, we should also be critical when he makes things about himself.

russ99
09-27-2010, 12:31 PM
I disagree strongly with your stance on Ozzie. That being said sometimes we just have an affinity for a person, place or thing that is currently the subject of strong criticism. Why not just keep posting if you want to, and leave if you want to, but not let others dictate your choice. I've had my share of :rolleyes: and :rolling: directed at some of my posts. So what. If you like Ozzie then you like Ozzie. Up until fairly recently you had lots of company.

I don't mind dissent or disagreement, as that drives the conversation but this name calling and assuming every one of my posts is "ruined" and not worthy of consideration or called out as such is what bothers me. Ya know, we're all Sox fans here, regardless of how we differ in opinion.

I'll take your advice, thanks for posting that.

asindc
09-27-2010, 12:57 PM
An ultimatum? KW simply informed the media that Ozzie still has a contract for next season and that if the Sox win the division next year then the option year of 2012 will vest and Ozzie will be here in 2012. How is that an ultimatum when it's the contract Guillen signed?

Kenny is not blameless, that is correct, but Ozzie is the one who started this mess, and in my opinion chose a very bad time to open his mouth. The team was on a 8 game losing streak, they blew their chance to be in the race for the AL Central division title, and Ozzie starts going off about his future and being wanted, etc. In other words, Me Me Me at a time when he should have been focused on the team and getting them to play decent baseball the final couple weeks of the season. And while we praise Ozzie for the job he does by deflecting media attention away from his players, we should also be critical when he makes things about himself.

I agree with this assessment. I generally like the way Ozzie handles the media, but his talking about this at this point was unnecessary and pointless.

kufram
09-27-2010, 01:04 PM
Never in the history of WSI conflict has so much been said about so little by so many

hi im skot
09-27-2010, 01:16 PM
You honestly think that Ozzie showed good judgement in asking for an extension or wanting to know if he was going to be fired now? The Sox had just choked the season away and it was the right time for him to want to have answers? He couldn't have waited a couple more weeks and asked in private?

People seem to forget that Ozzie did the exact same thing in the summer of '07. He got his contract before the end of the season.

guillensdisciple
09-27-2010, 01:23 PM
I strongly hope that we re sigh Ozzie.

kufram
09-27-2010, 01:59 PM
I agree with this assessment. I generally like the way Ozzie handles the media, but his talking about this at this point was unnecessary and pointless.


Note that the media has been talking about Ozzie, not the 6 game losing streak. I also note that the losing streak became a winning streak. Hmmm... maybe Ozzie is good at what he does. Naaa... couldn't be... he's too stoopid.

SoxandtheCityTee
09-27-2010, 02:09 PM
People seem to forget that Ozzie did the exact same thing in the summer of '07. He got his contract before the end of the season.

You are right, I did forget that. So it's consistent with his personality. I just don't remember Williams commenting in 2007 I guess; it all seemed to've happened more quietly. Certainly more quietly on this site. Or maybe I've repressed it. :D:

Nellie_Fox
09-27-2010, 02:28 PM
If you like Ozzie then you like Ozzie. Up until fairly recently you had lots of company.Actually, I think he still does, it's just that people are wearying of arguing about it, and those who want Ozzie gone feel more strongly about it so they've dominated the conversation.

Rocky Soprano
09-27-2010, 04:22 PM
Note that the media has been talking about Ozzie, not the 6 game losing streak. I also note that the losing streak became a winning streak. Hmmm... maybe Ozzie is good at what he does. Naaa... couldn't be... he's too stoopid.

Playoffs here we come, thank you Ozzie's mouth!

kufram
09-27-2010, 04:34 PM
Playoffs here we come, thank you Ozzie's mouth!


Well, winning any baseball game is better than, you know, losing.

soltrain21
09-27-2010, 05:06 PM
Well, winning any baseball game is better than, you know, losing.

So if his big mouth gets the credit for "taking pressure off the team" when they are completely ****ing out of it then shouldn't his mouth get the blame for constantly losing to the Twins since he praises them so much?

dickallen15
09-27-2010, 05:12 PM
So if his big mouth gets the credit for "taking pressure off the team" when they are completely ****ing out of it then shouldn't his mouth get the blame for constantly losing to the Twins since he praises them so much?

I wonder if he realizes if he truly believes the Sox are now winning meaningless games because Ozzie "took the pressure" off them by crying about an extension, if the 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 to 1 chance it actually is true is true, then the Sox can never have Ozzie happy or the pressure will be back on. Its really unbelievable how far people will go in their support of him and how effective he is.

DirtySox
09-27-2010, 05:39 PM
http://a2.twimg.com/profile_images/925738614/DSCN1905_normal.JPG
ChuckGarfien (http://twitter.com/#%21/ChuckGarfien)
Ozzie Guillen says he will be back with the White Sox next season.
1 minute ago (http://twitter.com/#%21/ChuckGarfien/status/25723237500) Favorite (http://twitter.com/#) Retweet (http://twitter.com/#) Reply (http://twitter.com/#)



Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

hi im skot
09-27-2010, 05:43 PM
http://a2.twimg.com/profile_images/925738614/DSCN1905_normal.JPG
ChuckGarfien (http://twitter.com/#%21/ChuckGarfien)
Ozzie Guillen says he will be back with the White Sox next season.


This is shocking news to approximately no one.

JermaineDye05
09-27-2010, 05:45 PM
This is shocking news to approximately no one.

Except for Joe Cowley.

Oh wait, I guess he doesn't really count as a person.

hi im skot
09-27-2010, 05:50 PM
Except for Joe Cowley.

Oh wait, I guess he doesn't really count as a person.

Cowley was calling for both KW and Ozzie to be back.