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View Full Version : *Official* 9/21 "R.I.P. 2010 White Sox" Postgame Thread


thomas35forever
09-22-2010, 12:37 AM
jzduPKYz3uk

MtGrnwdSoxFan
09-22-2010, 12:37 AM
Well, that's that.

Thanks for the memories, White Sox. Better luck next year.

soltrain21
09-22-2010, 12:38 AM
What a joke.

SoxSpeed22
09-22-2010, 12:40 AM
Cut and paste what I wrote in the lineup thread.
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=2625591#post2625591

OmahaSoxFan
09-22-2010, 12:41 AM
Well, that's that.

Thanks for the memories, White Sox. Better luck next year.

:whiner::whiner::whiner:

A season that started like crap, gave us a heck of a ride during that winning streak and great run through the Inter-league schedule, and then fell off on the end...

This team showed life this summer, but once September hit... this team died like a dog... just sad...

Once again owned by the division, you can't win **** unless you find any way to beat the Twins and Tigers, and find a way to consistently beat the Royals and Indians... but as is the case, the Sox couldn't do it in 2010...

R.I.P 2010 White Sox, it was definitely a rollercoaster ride...

And here's to another first-round Twins exit... :gulp: **** 'em!

Tragg
09-22-2010, 12:42 AM
Guillen's got to be on his way out, the way he's managing this team. MB throwing 110, Kotsay and Vizquel playing but young players ride the pine. The team is completely tanking, and he plays those who quit 3 weeks ago. He's not taking his job seriously in the least.

AlexRios51
09-22-2010, 12:46 AM
Guillen's got to be on his way out, the way he's managing this team. MB throwing 110, Kotsay and Vizquel playing but young players ride the pine. The team is completely tanking, and he plays those who quit 3 weeks ago. He's not taking his job seriously in the least.
I don't see how it doesn't happen. If it doesn't I will start a ****ing rally for kennys head next year.

OmahaSoxFan
09-22-2010, 12:48 AM
Guillen's got to be on his way out, the way he's managing this team. MB throwing 110, Kotsay and Vizquel playing but young players ride the pine. The team is completely tanking, and he plays those who quit 3 weeks ago. He's not taking his job seriously in the least.

I have been a fan of Ozzie from day one of him becoming a member of the Chicago White Sox, from his playing days to his current role as manager of the team.

Outside of 2005 and 2008, his teams have tanked during the latter months of the season... I think it's time for Ozzie to go... this year in itself has been a microcosm of Ozzie's affect on this team...

And seriously, can Man Ram just go away... didn't like him before he became a member of the White Sox, didn't like when Kenny picked him up, and now after watching his crappy at-bats, I wish he would just go away... just please do not retain him next year... along with Mark Kotsay... (too bad we are stuck with Scott Linebrink and Mark Teahan, would be nice to see them unloaded as well).

SoxSpeed22
09-22-2010, 12:48 AM
I don't see how it doesn't happen. If it doesn't I will start a ****ing rally for kennys head next year.That's not Kenny's call, otherwise it would've happened around May, at least according to some reports. Firing coaches goes through Jerry.

AlexRios51
09-22-2010, 12:52 AM
That's not Kenny's call, otherwise it would've happened around May, at least according to some reports. Firing coaches goes through Jerry.
It's his call he just has to convince JR to do it, hell get rid of both of them. We have a pretty good guy waiting to take over KW job.

thomas35forever
09-22-2010, 12:56 AM
It's his call he just has to convince JR to do it, hell get rid of both of them. We have a pretty good guy waiting to take over KW job.
Don't tell me it's Rick Hahn.

AlexRios51
09-22-2010, 12:58 AM
Don't tell me it's Rick Hahn.
O yeah, :bandance:

thomas35forever
09-22-2010, 12:58 AM
O yeah, :bandance:
No promoting from within if we go in a different direction.

palehozenychicty
09-22-2010, 01:02 AM
I don't even know where to begin. This season was truly a sandwich of inside gooey, sweet taste, and bitter, stale outsides.

AlexRios51
09-22-2010, 01:02 AM
No promoting from within if we go in a different direction.
I just want ozzie gone, but that may only happen if Kenny goes too. So I see no problem with promoting Hahn.

captain54
09-22-2010, 01:03 AM
All you can say about the White Sox and the organization at this point is, they are the essence of mediocrity.....things could be better, but they could be worse....they've had some great moments this season, but some equally crappy one

they might be just about in the middle of the pack in all statistical categories....not one of the elite teams, but not one of the bottom feeders..

It all adds up to one big yawn....

the only drama and entertainment now is how the organization handles some critical decisions for next year

JB98
09-22-2010, 01:21 AM
The effort the last four or five ballgames reflects poorly on everyone involved with the team.

Hegewisch
09-22-2010, 01:27 AM
I am deeply saddened by how the last 2-3 weeks have went. And, I am puzzled.:scratch::scratch::scratch:



I do know I HATE The Twins More Than The Cubs Now !!!:angry:

GoGoCrede
09-22-2010, 01:30 AM
Oh well, at least they're making it easier for me to slowly wean myself off baseball in preparation for the long offseason.

Soxman219
09-22-2010, 01:35 AM
Another year, another White Sox choke late in the season, another Twins ALC crown and 3 and out. Rinse and Repeat. Makes me so angry! Watch the W.Sox win games now that the seasons over.

Boondock Saint
09-22-2010, 01:41 AM
Another year, another White Sox choke late in the season, another Twins ALC crown and 3 and out. Rinse and Repeat. Makes me so angry! Watch the W.Sox win games now that the seasons over.

Where have you been the last two weeks? Our only two wins in that span have been against the Royals. When we got swept by the Twins, I thought, "Just get to 90". A week ago, I thought, "Just get to 85". Now, I'm just hoping to finish above .500.

captain54
09-22-2010, 01:55 AM
I am deeply saddened by how the last 2-3 weeks have went. And, I am puzzled.:scratch::scratch::scratch:





you know, the White Sox were in 1st place about 6 weeks ago....

what's even more unbelievable is that they had a 7 game winning streak during that period..

the last 6 weeks have been one of the more disappointing in recent memory....

Rikirk
09-22-2010, 02:01 AM
please god.....someone steamroll the Twins in the ALCS

Hegewisch
09-22-2010, 02:01 AM
you know, the White Sox were in 1st place about 6 weeks ago....

what's even more unbelievable is that they had a 7 game winning streak during that period..

the last 6 weeks have been one of the more disappointing in recent memory....

Well, for my first year as a season ticket holder (split) this has been a hell of a roller coaster ride.:o: I have been baptized by fire. I guess you real old time sox folks would simply tell me, "Welcome To Our World !!!":whiner:

(and, just think my son in law who lives in Jackson, Michigan and a Tiger fan was tellling me 6 weeks ago:"You sure picked the right year to get sox season tickets. They could go all the way !)

Rikirk
09-22-2010, 02:08 AM
For Christmas...
I want a manager that doesnt kiss ass to the frakkin Twins.

mcsoxfan
09-22-2010, 02:24 AM
Are we all clear now that what happened in June was a mirage?

The Sox will probably end up third and then it's look out below in 2011.

Stay competitive until the first regular season Bears game is typically what Reinsdorf has managed to do. Reinsdorf has said he will not lose money in order to win championships.

Well, given the fact he has won only 1 in some 28 years tells me he's made a hell of a lot of money.

Even the most strident of you Reinsdorf loyalists have to admit 2005 was an aberration. The Sox have come no where near that fluke of a team since.

And recall that team had to overcome some horrific managing by Guillen to win a division they should have won with 1983 type ease. A once in a lifetime string of pitching excellence and a memorable grand slam by Konkero are the reasons why we even won that one.

The future is not very bright.

mcsoxfan
09-22-2010, 02:28 AM
For Christmas...
I want a manager that doesnt kiss ass to the frakkin Twins.

I want a real sportsman for an owner - not someone who uses the team I love as a tax write off for his wealthy investors.

Boondock Saint
09-22-2010, 02:39 AM
I want a real sportsman for an owner - not someone who uses the team I love as a tax write off for his wealthy investors.

Yeah, I'm sure that's exactly what's happening.

CubsfansareDRUNK
09-22-2010, 02:49 AM
You know it's bad when the top play on whitesox.com is a Morel ground out...

Dan H
09-22-2010, 03:08 AM
Are we all clear now that what happened in June was a mirage?

The Sox will probably end up third and then it's look out below in 2011.

Stay competitive until the first regular season Bears game is typically what Reinsdorf has managed to do. Reinsdorf has said he will not lose money in order to win championships.

Well, given the fact he has won only 1 in some 28 years tells me he's made a hell of a lot of money.

Even the most strident of you Reinsdorf loyalists have to admit 2005 was an aberration. The Sox have come no where near that fluke of a team since.

And recall that team had to overcome some horrific managing by Guillen to win a division they should have won with 1983 type ease. A once in a lifetime string of pitching excellence and a memorable grand slam by Konkero are the reasons why we even won that one.

The future is not very bright.

2005 is beginning to look like an aberration. The 2008 division-winning team couldn't win 90 even with the extra game with the Twins. Otherwise, the decade has been a pretty ordinary one.

If Reinsdorf is really serious about winning, some real changes have to be made. That means the leadership has to change. If both Williams and Guillen are in place for 2011, that means he is happy with his one World Series. Hell, George Steinbrenner would have fired Ozzie three times by now.

WhiteSox5187
09-22-2010, 03:40 AM
2005 is beginning to look like an aberration. The 2008 division-winning team couldn't win 90 even with the extra game with the Twins. Otherwise, the decade has been a pretty ordinary one.

If Reinsdorf is really serious about winning, some real changes have to be made. That means the leadership has to change. If both Williams and Guillen are in place for 2011, that means he is happy with his one World Series. Hell, George Steinbrenner would have fired Ozzie three times by now.

And hired him back at least four times.

I am really starting to think that we need to totally redo the whole organization from the top down.

pudge
09-22-2010, 04:25 AM
This season was just a fog to me. I found myself uninterested far more than interested. The laughable comparisons to 1983 only made it more annoying. This organization has some work to do. Here's to coming out in 2011 and actually being ready to play ball.

Rikirk
09-22-2010, 04:58 AM
WhiteSox5187 I am really starting to think that we need to totally redo the whole organization from the top down.

I think ive been saying that for the past couple of days too...

doublem23
09-22-2010, 07:03 AM
I want a real sportsman for an owner - not someone who uses the team I love as a tax write off for his wealthy investors.

Will you shut the hell up? The Sox have the top payroll in their division and Jerry's let Kenny dig deeper into his wallet as the year has gone on to add pieces. The only member of this organization doing his job right now is Reinsdorf.

Jesus ****ing Christ. Come up with an original comment.

LITTLE NELL
09-22-2010, 07:12 AM
Its time to blow this team up.
Keep PK, Rios, Alexei, Thornton and the starting 5, the rest can go including the biggest clown in town, Ozzie.

doublem23
09-22-2010, 07:14 AM
Are we all clear now that what happened in June was a mirage?

The Sox will probably end up third and then it's look out below in 2011.

Everyone was predicting the Sox would be finishing in last in May and that 2011 would be a disaster, so pardon me if I don't exactly take your sage predictions as fact.

Stay competitive until the first regular season Bears game is typically what Reinsdorf has managed to do. Reinsdorf has said he will not lose money in order to win championships.

No owners are losing money, dude, if you think any new owner would come in and spend lavishly in ways Reinsdorf has not, YOU ARE A GOD DAMN MORON. Oh yeah, plus, it's not allowed by the MLB.

Well, given the fact he has won only 1 in some 28 years tells me he's made a hell of a lot of money.

Even the most strident of you Reinsdorf loyalists have to admit 2005 was an aberration. The Sox have come no where near that fluke of a team since.

Most championship seasons are flukes. The Sox were a championship caliber team from 2004-2006, that were done in by injuries in '04 and were unfortunately in the same division as two better teams in 2006.

The Cardinals were a fluke in 2006, the Astros run to the World Series in 2005 was a fluke. The Tigers in 2006, Rockies in 2007, etc. All flukes.

And recall that team had to overcome some horrific managing by Guillen to win a division they should have won with 1983 type ease. A once in a lifetime string of pitching excellence and a memorable grand slam by Konkero are the reasons why we even won that one.

The future is not very bright.

I disagree, this Sox teams looked real bad coming into the season (to me) and they were competitive until the last few weeks of the season. There's going to be some tough decisions but you seem to be confusing us with the Pirates or Royals.

doublem23
09-22-2010, 07:15 AM
I think ive been saying that for the past couple of days too...

Past couple of days?

:rolling:

Holy ****, guys. Holy ****.

harwar
09-22-2010, 07:17 AM
I want a real sportsman for an owner - not someone who uses the team I love as a tax write off for his wealthy investors.

I don't think that you could find anyone that loves the game of baseball more than Jerry Reinsdorf ..

doublem23
09-22-2010, 07:20 AM
I don't think that you could find anyone that loves the game of baseball more than Jerry Reinsdorf ..

It doesn't even ****ing matter, anybody who actually knows what the hell they're talking about, as opposed to our poster friend who likes to use our forums as to air his personal vendetta against Jerry Reinsdorf, would know that the MLB doesn't allow its teams to operate in the red.

harwar
09-22-2010, 07:50 AM
It doesn't even ****ing matter

Maybe it does matter to me because it's my opinion on what he said ..

g0g0
09-22-2010, 08:12 AM
RIP. Great mid-summer run but just couldn't keep it up. Definitely didn't have the eye of the tiger with their backs against the wall at the end. Better luck next year!

tstrike2000
09-22-2010, 08:21 AM
This team just has nothing. There's been no hitting, pitching, passion, etc, etc, etc. Besides being out of gas in every sense of the meaning, watching this team lately just resembles a lot of Kenny Williams built teams, veteran hot garbage stacked 12 feet high taking up roster spots.

ChiSoxGirl
09-22-2010, 08:22 AM
Is it wrong of me to hate this team right now? I have free Club Level tickets to Monday night's game against the Red Sox and, for the first time in my life, don't want to go to the ballpark. I'm going to be sacrificing sleep and spending a school night at home to watch this crap? Indeed. I'll have to operate on far less sleep than I need the next day because I'll be at the game of a team that doesn't even give a damn anymore? Great. :mad:

dwitt76
09-22-2010, 08:25 AM
3rd place and .500 are in sight. Dont stop now boys.

russ99
09-22-2010, 09:24 AM
For Christmas...
I want a manager that doesnt kiss ass to the frakkin Twins.

For Christmas I want a hitter that can drive guys in with 2 outs and the bases loaded.

If Santa wants to be extra nice, also a hitting coach who can get these guys to stop hacking at every pitch trying to hit a home run and go the opposite way and drive a guy in once in a while.

Can't understand the need to blame going around here, other than the need to vent. We all knew this was a flawed roster from day one. I'm glad they had the streaks they had.

The Sox aren't as good as we thought during the streaks, and not as bad as April/May and the last week and a half.

doublem23
09-22-2010, 09:30 AM
Can't understand the need to blame going around here, other than the need to vent. We all knew this was a flawed roster from day one. I'm glad they had the streaks they had.

It was also Ozzie's roster.

Viva Medias B's
09-22-2010, 09:32 AM
I don't know who should go. Kenny? Ozzie? Both? Neither? All I want is for us to be an organization that knows how to develop talent, plug holes, and win. You know, like Minnesota does.

soltrain21
09-22-2010, 09:34 AM
I don't know who should go. Kenny? Ozzie? Both? Neither? All I want is for us to be an organization that knows how to develop talent, plug holes, and win. You know, like Minnesota does.

Our minors might be in the worst state it's been in in a while. And that's really, really saying something.

russ99
09-22-2010, 09:41 AM
It was also Ozzie's roster.

Really... Since when is Ozzie the GM? He made the call on one guy. Besides, Kenny had to get bottom-barrel FAs due to payroll restrictions, and we got bit by more severe injuries than usual. It is what it is.

Hopefully we'll see more of a roster shake-up this offseason.

Hitmen77
09-22-2010, 09:45 AM
8 in a row! Don't stop now boys!
:whiteflag::whiteflag::whiteflag::whiteflag:
:whiteflag::whiteflag::whiteflag::whiteflag:


Here's some questions I have at this point:
- Why is Buehrle out there for 110 pitches when the games don't matter any more?
- Why are Viciedo and Flowers on the bench instead of seeing some live pitching and getting some more experience.
- What happened to Buehrle, Danks, and Floyd? Have they just run out of gas or are these guys not as good as we'd like to think? This is NOT encouraging for 2011.
- Is that Carlos Quentin trade looking like a total steal for Kenny and the Sox anymore?

Craig Grebeck
09-22-2010, 09:51 AM
Really... Since when is Ozzie the GM? He made the call on one guy. Besides, Kenny had to get bottom-barrel FAs due to payroll restrictions, and we got bit by more severe injuries than usual. It is what it is.

Hopefully we'll see more of a roster shake-up this offseason.
Which is why they should clean house altogether. If Ozzie is dumb enough to believe in Kotsay/Jones as a viable DH platoon, he should have no significant role in this organization.

KW has left the farm in shambles, which makes the "severe injuries" line all the worse. Injuries happen -- that's why you have a good farm system.

doublem23
09-22-2010, 09:54 AM
KW has left the farm in shambles, which makes the "severe injuries" line all the worse. Injuries happen -- that's why you have a good farm system.

What severe injuries did we even suffer? Peavy's missed most of the season, all right, but otherwise I don't really have much.

I guess Teahen was out for quite a bit of the season, but (not coincidentally) that was also when we played our best baseball.

slavko
09-22-2010, 09:55 AM
I want a real sportsman for an owner - not someone who uses the team I love as a tax write off for his wealthy investors.

If it's a tax writeoff for the investors, which is probably BS because they're making money according to your other post, it can't be deducted currently because partnership losses are Passive under the IRC. Unless you're a CPA and a lawyer too?

Will you shut the hell up? The Sox have the top payroll in their division and Jerry's let Kenny dig deeper into his wallet as the year has gone on to add pieces. The only member of this organization doing his job right now is Reinsdorf.

Jesus ****ing Christ. Come up with an original comment.

Confusing the issue with facts again.

This team just has nothing. There's been no hitting, pitching, passion, etc, etc, etc. Besides being out of gas in every sense of the meaning, watching this team lately just resembles a lot of Kenny Williams built teams, veteran hot garbage stacked 12 feet high taking up roster spots.

And keeping that going is the manager's job, IMO.

Finally, those of you who assured me that Manny was not another Griffey: Go woo-woo yourselves.

doublem23
09-22-2010, 09:57 AM
Confusing the issue with facts again.

Oh well then please enlighten me what more an owner is supposed to do other than cut checks and give his management team the payroll to be competitive.

Rocky Soprano
09-22-2010, 10:06 AM
It's his call he just has to convince JR to do it, hell get rid of both of them. We have a pretty good guy waiting to take over KW job.

How in the world do you know that Hahn would do a pretty good job?

I fail to see why anyone that dislikes what KW has done would be so happy to give the job to his assistant.

Let's fire Ozzie and hire one of his sons!

slavko
09-22-2010, 10:09 AM
Oh well then please enlighten me what more an owner is supposed to do other than cut checks and give his management team the payroll to be competitive.

We agree. I should have "tealed" my post.

wilburaga
09-22-2010, 10:11 AM
If it's a tax writeoff for the investors, which is probably BS because they're making money according to your other post, it can't be deducted currently because partnership losses are Passive under the IRC. Unless you're a CPA and a lawyer too?



Confusing the issue with facts again.



And keeping that going is the manager's job, IMO.

Finally, those of you who assured me that Manny was not another Griffey: Go woo-woo yourselves.

I just woo-wooed myself. I feel much better.

ChiSoxGal85
09-22-2010, 10:48 AM
For Christmas I want a hitter that can drive guys in with 2 outs and the bases loaded.

For Christmas, I want hitters that can drive in guys late in the season with bases loaded and no outs. Or 1 out. Matter of fact, anytime at all would be good.

They look completely out of gas.

The 2010 Sox roller coaster ride: April/May: Forget it, wait til next year
June: Huh, the guys can play
July: Wow, first place, they could do it
August: Uh, oh, crashing back to earth
September: Complete suckage in nearly every respect.
This crap was more painful to me than if they had stunk the entire season. Got my hopes up and then dashed 'em to pieces...ouch. :mad:

Chez
09-22-2010, 11:05 AM
It's disappointing to see the Sox end the season like this. Many posters have accuused the team of giving up, rolling over or mailing it in. While that seems to be the prevailing sentiment, I have a hard time imagining, for example, a hitter not bearing down with runners on base simply because his team has been eliminated from the race. Maybe it's a concentration or focus issue that comes with falling out of contention. If so, where is our so-called "veteran leadership" in the clubhouse -- Paulie, A.J. Omar, Buehrle etc.? While the games are now meaningless in the standings, I'd like to see them finish strong.

soxinem1
09-22-2010, 11:35 AM
Guillen's got to be on his way out, the way he's managing this team. MB throwing 110, Kotsay and Vizquel playing but young players ride the pine. The team is completely tanking, and he plays those who quit 3 weeks ago. He's not taking his job seriously in the least.

He's auditioning for the Marlins job.

When Wes Helms gets 510 AB's in 2011 we can say 'I told ya so!!'

Craig Grebeck
09-22-2010, 11:38 AM
How in the world do you know that Hahn would do a pretty good job?

I fail to see why anyone that dislikes what KW has done would be so happy to give the job to his assistant.

Let's fire Ozzie and hire one of his sons!
I guess you believe that Hahn agrees with everything KW does or they have the exact same ideology. I don't believe that.

doublem23
09-22-2010, 11:47 AM
I guess you believe that Hahn agrees with everything KW does or they have the exact same ideology. I don't believe that.

I admit that I don't know that much about Hahn, but I did have the pleasure of sitting on a conference call with him at the start of this year, and the guy couldn't stop telling us what a great move it was to bring in Mark Teahen and ink him to that deal to avoid arbitration.

So I'm not sold.

Craig Grebeck
09-22-2010, 11:51 AM
I admit that I don't know that much about Hahn, but I did have the pleasure of sitting on a conference call with him at the start of this year, and the guy couldn't stop telling us what a great move it was to bring in Mark Teahen and ink him to that deal to avoid arbitration.

So I'm not sold.
I'm guessing Hahn went with the scouts on Teahen. I'm not sure.

Still, given that KW just gave up Daniel Hudson for 1.45 years of Edwin Jackson, I'm willing to go with a guy who is a little more patient.

Tragg
09-22-2010, 11:52 AM
I'm guessing Hahn went with the scouts on Teahen. I'm not sure.
Those scouts need new careers.
If, indeed, it was the eye of the scouts that were relied upon.

dickallen15
09-22-2010, 11:56 AM
Those scouts need new careers.
If, indeed, it was the eye of the scouts that were relied upon.

I'm pretty sure Teahen was a Buddy Bell idea.

Rocky Soprano
09-22-2010, 12:00 PM
I guess you believe that Hahn agrees with everything KW does or they have the exact same ideology. I don't believe that.

He may not agree with everything KW does, the truth is that we really don't know. I just don't understand the ideology behind giving the job to KW's assistant.

October26
09-22-2010, 12:47 PM
For Christmas, I want hitters that can drive in guys late in the season with bases loaded and no outs. Or 1 out. Matter of fact, anytime at all would be good.

They look completely out of gas.

The 2010 Sox roller coaster ride:
April/May: Forget it, wait til next year
June: Huh, the guys can play
July: Wow, first place, they could do it
August: Uh, oh, crashing back to earth
September: Complete suckage in nearly every respect.
This crap was more painful to me than if they had stunk the entire season. Got my hopes up and then dashed 'em to pieces...ouch. :mad:


Wow - you read my mind. Excellent points on the Sox roller coaster ride that was 2010. I agree with you 100% and am also very :mad:!

SI1020
09-22-2010, 12:54 PM
Is Hahn perceived as more of a SABR kind of guy? Maybe that would make him seen more favorably by some.

WhiteSox5187
09-22-2010, 01:18 PM
I admit that I don't know that much about Hahn, but I did have the pleasure of sitting on a conference call with him at the start of this year, and the guy couldn't stop telling us what a great move it was to bring in Mark Teahen and ink him to that deal to avoid arbitration.

So I'm not sold.

Did you think he was going to say "Yea, Teahen isn't that good, I don't know why we got him and the decision to extend him was just beyond stupid. What was my boss thinking?!"

doublem23
09-22-2010, 01:31 PM
Did you think he was going to say "Yea, Teahen isn't that good, I don't know why we got him and the decision to extend him was just beyond stupid. What was my boss thinking?!"

No, but his level of defense of that move was different than others. It was like he was taking it personally if you questioned the Teahen trade.

khan
09-22-2010, 01:59 PM
I don't give a **** how bad the young guys are, but they have needed to START every game. I'm nauseated by the inclusion of Vizquel, AJ, Pierre, and Kotsay instead of Lillibridge, Flowers, De Aza, and Viciedo.

These "games" don't matter any more. The veterans look like they've quit. More importantly, the SOX need to find out if any one of these youngsters is worth a damn.

At the same time, there is NO good reason for Buehrle to start any more, nor is there a good reason for Garcia or Floyd to start any more. I don't give a **** how bad Torres and Harrell may be, but they have to pitch to see if they can have a role here. Moreover, if there are ANY other pitchers in Charlotte that have any designs on being here in 2011, they need to be up. [Marquez, Dolsi, WHOEVER...]

And yes, both KW and Ozzie have disgusted me with their failures, their stupid decisions, and despite all of this, their egos. I wouldn't be sad if they are gone after this season. If they stay, they'd better change their ways.


About the game: I was saddened by Morel swinging at two pitches in the dirt with the bases loaded. Someone has to tell him to NOT help out the pitcher by doing this. Someone, ANYONE in the coaching staff has to tell him to force the pitcher to throw him something hittable. To work the count.

Where were Ozzie or Walker on this? Where was the supposed "veteran leadership" in this team? Where's the pride in putting out a professional effort? That they let Morel do this was pathetic at best.

SI1020
09-22-2010, 02:22 PM
About the game: I was saddened by Morel swinging at two pitches in the dirt with the bases loaded. Someone has to tell him to NOT help out the pitcher by doing this. Someone, ANYONE in the coaching staff has to tell him to force the pitcher to throw him something hittable. To work the count.

Where were Ozzie or Walker on this? Where was the supposed "veteran leadership" in this team? Where's the pride in putting out a professional effort? That they let Morel do this was pathetic at best. This is a good point that I think needs to be addressed by Sox management. Players come and go but the same lack of plate discipline continues to frustrate us. I'm sorry but I have to believe this is where managing and coaching come in, and this is where the Sox have failed miserably.

Tragg
09-22-2010, 02:51 PM
I'm pretty sure Teahen was a Buddy Bell idea.
He's done wonders for our farm system too.

When was Bell scouting Teahen? Several years ago as a Royal?

hi im skot
09-22-2010, 02:57 PM
I don't give a **** how bad the young guys are, but they have needed to START every game. I'm nauseated by the inclusion of Vizquel, AJ, Pierre, and Kotsay instead of Lillibridge, Flowers, De Aza, and Viciedo.

These "games" don't matter any more. The veterans look like they've quit. More importantly, the SOX need to find out if any one of these youngsters is worth a damn.

At the same time, there is NO good reason for Buehrle to start any more, nor is there a good reason for Garcia or Floyd to start any more. I don't give a **** how bad Torres and Harrell may be, but they have to pitch to see if they can have a role here. Moreover, if there are ANY other pitchers in Charlotte that have any designs on being here in 2011, they need to be up. [Marquez, Dolsi, WHOEVER...]

And yes, both KW and Ozzie have disgusted me with their failures, their stupid decisions, and despite all of this, their egos. I wouldn't be sad if they are gone after this season. If they stay, they'd better change their ways.


About the game: I was saddened by Morel swinging at two pitches in the dirt with the bases loaded. Someone has to tell him to NOT help out the pitcher by doing this. Someone, ANYONE in the coaching staff has to tell him to force the pitcher to throw him something hittable. To work the count.

Where were Ozzie or Walker on this? Where was the supposed "veteran leadership" in this team? Where's the pride in putting out a professional effort? That they let Morel do this was pathetic at best.

Life is hard.

doublem23
09-22-2010, 02:59 PM
About the game: I was saddened by Morel swinging at two pitches in the dirt with the bases loaded. Someone has to tell him to NOT help out the pitcher by doing this. Someone, ANYONE in the coaching staff has to tell him to force the pitcher to throw him something hittable. To work the count.

Where were Ozzie or Walker on this? Where was the supposed "veteran leadership" in this team? Where's the pride in putting out a professional effort? That they let Morel do this was pathetic at best.

Are you ****ing for real? You're telling me a professional baseball player, a guy who has been playing his entire life, needs to be coddled at the Major League level and told not to swing at balls in the dirt?

Jeez, man, the guy got fooled and swung at two bad pitched. Happens to young guys. Happens to old guys. If you don't like Ozzie and the coaching staff, I can't ague much with that, but at least keep your arguments sane, please.

khan
09-22-2010, 03:10 PM
Are you ****ing for real? You're telling me a professional baseball player, a guy who has been playing his entire life, needs to be coddled at the Major League level and told not to swing at balls in the dirt?

Look, I can agree to your general statement here. The players are human and make mistakes, as we all do.


However, your post did not account for the bases loaded and one out part of the specific AB. It also did not account for the overall trend [of late] for this team to fail in these situations.

IMO, this was a teachable moment for the player, and a coachable moment for the team. I still believe that this teachable and coachable moment was wasted. As a result, it reflects poorly on the coaching staff, the veteran leadership, as well as Morel.

hi im skot
09-22-2010, 03:11 PM
Look, I can agree to your general statement here. The players are human and make mistakes, as we all do.


However, your post did not account for the bases loaded and one out part of the specific AB. It also did not account for the overall trend [of late] for this team to fail in these situations.

IMO, this was a teachable moment for the player, and a coachable moment for the team. I still believe that this teachable and coachable moment was wasted. As a result, it reflects poorly on the coaching staff, the veteran leadership, as well as Morel.

:hawk

"Stretch!"

khan
09-22-2010, 03:15 PM
:hawk

"Stretch!"

How so?

If a player swings at pitches out of the dirt, that's one thing.

But given that the bases were loaded in that AB, and pitchers are not as likely to throw out of the zone in a bases loaded situation, it is MORE incumbent on the hitter to be disciplined.

Do you disagree? If so, why?

JB98
09-22-2010, 03:15 PM
I just shake my head in dismay when I see people criticize Ozzie for allowing Buehrle to pitch. There are legitimate criticisms of Ozzie being made on this board, but that isn't one.

Buehrle isn't hurt. Let the man pitch. Floyd is hurt. He's the guy you shut down. We can't shut everyone down. Somebody has to pitch, you know?

And anyone who wants to see more of Torres and Harrell is out of their ****ing mind. Those guys are organizational filler, nothing more, nothing less. If either of them has a role on the 2011 Sox, that will be a clear sign the pitching staff is an arm or two short.

I wish we had more young pitchers to take a look at here in September, but we don't. That's not Ozzie's fault. That is the GM's fault. I'm probably in the minority here, but if one of KW or Ozzie has to go, see ya, KW. He's mortgaged the future for the present for much too long, and it's starting to catch up with this organization. The second-half fades are the result of a lack of depth in the organization. It's happening every year now.

It's hard to win with a team of mercenaries every year. At some point, you gotta start developing your own. How sad is it that Sale and Morel are the only second-half callups that deserve to play?

doublem23
09-22-2010, 03:20 PM
IMO, this was a teachable moment for the player, and a coachable moment for the team. I still believe that this teachable and coachable moment was wasted. As a result, it reflects poorly on the coaching staff, the veteran leadership, as well as Morel.

And how do you know that Walk and the coaching staff haven't been spending any time with our guy Morel watching tape of the at bat trying to help him identify whatever it was that so throughly fooled him?

Dude, chill the **** out, you're basically just screaming into the wind now, hoping someone will listen to you.

It's OZZIE'S fault the SOX wear those black uniforms all the time.
It's WALKER'S fault the park in Oakland is so god damn ugly.
It's KENNY'S fault Jim from HR accidentally got me a regular Coke at lunch instead of the DIET COKE I asked for.

:chillpill:

hi im skot
09-22-2010, 03:21 PM
And how do you know that Walk and the coaching staff haven't been spending any time with our guy Morel watching tape of the at bat trying to help him identify whatever it was that so throughly fooled him?

Dude, chill the **** out, you're basically just screaming into the wind now, hoping someone will listen to you.

It's OZZIE'S fault the SOX wear those black uniforms all the time.
It's WALKER'S fault the park in Oakland is so god damn ugly.
It's KENNY'S fault Jim from HR accidentally got me a regular Coke at lunch instead of the DIET COKE I asked for.

:chillpill:

To be fair, Jim from HR is kind of an *******.

doublem23
09-22-2010, 03:29 PM
To be fair, Jim from HR is kind of an *******.

Coop'll fix him.

kufram
09-22-2010, 03:41 PM
I don't give a **** how bad the young guys are, but they have needed to START every game. I'm nauseated by the inclusion of Vizquel, AJ, Pierre, and Kotsay instead of Lillibridge, Flowers, De Aza, and Viciedo.

These "games" don't matter any more. The veterans look like they've quit. More importantly, the SOX need to find out if any one of these youngsters is worth a damn.

At the same time, there is NO good reason for Buehrle to start any more, nor is there a good reason for Garcia or Floyd to start any more. I don't give a **** how bad Torres and Harrell may be, but they have to pitch to see if they can have a role here. Moreover, if there are ANY other pitchers in Charlotte that have any designs on being here in 2011, they need to be up. [Marquez, Dolsi, WHOEVER...]

And yes, both KW and Ozzie have disgusted me with their failures, their stupid decisions, and despite all of this, their egos. I wouldn't be sad if they are gone after this season. If they stay, they'd better change their ways.


About the game: I was saddened by Morel swinging at two pitches in the dirt with the bases loaded. Someone has to tell him to NOT help out the pitcher by doing this. Someone, ANYONE in the coaching staff has to tell him to force the pitcher to throw him something hittable. To work the count.

Where were Ozzie or Walker on this? Where was the supposed "veteran leadership" in this team? Where's the pride in putting out a professional effort? That they let Morel do this was pathetic at best.


Kettle...black?

khan
09-22-2010, 03:48 PM
And how do you know that Walk and the coaching staff haven't been spending any time with our guy Morel watching tape of the at bat trying to help him identify whatever it was that so throughly fooled him?
And how do you know that they did? There has been a disturbing trend in SOX youngsters coming up with poor strike zone recognition and general plate indiscipline. [Not only Morel, but also Viciedo, and Flowers as well.]

Therefore, one would be inclined to believe that this should be a chance to teach the lad, and to coach the team. This would be a chance for Ozzie, Walker, et. al would recognize that they still need to help him on this issue.

After all, we're always led to believe that the batting coach [for example] can help the young player, but does basically nothing for the veteran. As Morel is a youngster, here's a golden opportunity to help him.


Dude, chill the **** out, you're basically just screaming into the wind now, hoping someone will listen to you.
1. My OP stated that I was "saddened" by his indiscipline.

2. If I'm "screaming" about anything, it's Ozzie's misuse of garbage time in this and in previous seasons, NOT this AB. These are different issues. [Go back and read my posts in this thread if you disagree.]

It's OZZIE'S fault the SOX wear those black uniforms all the time.
It's WALKER'S fault the park in Oakland is so god damn ugly.
It's KENNY'S fault Jim from HR accidentally got me a regular Coke at lunch instead of the DIET COKE I asked for.

:chillpill:
Umm, OK. If you can find examples of me posting any of these things, let us know.

If not, then you're getting into "imaginary" posts of mine that never occurred on these boards.

doublem23
09-22-2010, 03:59 PM
Umm, OK. If you can find examples of me posting any of these things, let us know.

If not, then you're getting into "imaginary" posts of mine that never occurred on these boards.

It's OZZIE'S fault Doub is making **** up.

DickAllen72
09-22-2010, 04:40 PM
I admit that I don't know that much about Hahn, but I did have the pleasure of sitting on a conference call with him at the start of this year, and the guy couldn't stop telling us what a great move it was to bring in Mark Teahen and ink him to that deal to avoid arbitration.

So I'm not sold.
I remember reading an article before the 2006 spring training season began which quoted Hahn speaking of the newly required Rob Mackowiak, "This guy can really play some centerfield."

So I'm not sold either.

I say keep KW and let him fire Ozzie and hire whomever he really wants. Then re-assess KW after a couple of years.

Nellie_Fox
09-22-2010, 04:48 PM
IMO, this was a teachable moment for the player, and a coachable moment for the team. I still believe that this teachable and coachable moment was wasted. As a result, it reflects poorly on the coaching staff, the veteran leadership, as well as Morel.How in the hell do you know what the coaches did or did not tell him before or after the at bat? Were you in the dugout? Were you in the clubhouse? Do you really believe that no one has ever said "Hey, Morel, don't swing at pitches in the dirt with the bases loaded!" This argument is right up there with the poster a few years ago who said that the pitchers needed to learn to give up one run fewer than their team scored for them.

Seriously, did you expect them to run out to home plate during the AB and give him instruction like it was tee-ball?

SI1020
09-22-2010, 05:21 PM
I see there was a firestorm here that I don't have time to read. I still think khan has a point so I'll take a little beating too. For years now, I've watched Sox hitters have the same ****ty approach time and time again. Swing at crap. Swing for the fences when a litlle hit will do. Let a pitcher with no stuff off the hook by not working him properly. Time and again. Year in and year out and you can't question the coaching staff? I say bulll**** to that. Now you have a young guy in Morel that looks like he actually does have some potential, and that's not common in the Sox farm system. It tears your gut a little bit to see him make the same mistakes at the plate. The Sox need a complete overhaul from top to bottom.