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sox_fan_4life
06-27-2002, 08:55 PM
I have said it before. If they stop playing by either strike or walkout I am done with this sport. It is very plain to me that everyone involved has forgotten the most important people in sports, the fan. They are there to entertain us, without us they are probably all working in some factory somewhere. Everyone involved takes the fan for granted. Thank God football is right around the corner.


espn (http://msn.espn.go.com/mlb/news/2002/0627/1399788.html)


Thursday, June 27

Remlinger says work stoppage may be unavoidable

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ESPN.com news services


NEW YORK -- Atlanta Braves assistant union representative Mike Remlinger believes Major League Baseball is heading for a work stoppage.

Remlinger sat in on Wednesday's negotiating session between the players' association and the owners, and did not come out of it with a good feeling.

"I see this headed in one place and one place only," Remlinger told the Atlanta Journal-Constitution. "Unfortunately there are owners out there who don't feel like we will take that step. The reality is, if we have to, we will."

Remlinger attended the session in New York City along with Braves' union representative Tom Glavine, teammate Damian Moss and injured veteran B.J. Surhoff. Mets player representative Al Leiter was also there.

"I think things went well, but I still feel there's a lot of things that need to be done," Remlinger told the newspaper.

Remlinger admitted to the newspaper that the players have talked about possible strike dates the last few days.

"It's not the most pleasant thing to sit and talk about," he told the newspaper, "because everybody wants to get a deal done and keep playing. But that (strike) is our only form of leverage without a deal."

The players' union believes owners will unilaterally change economic rules after the World Series if no compromise is reached. A strike would be the ninth work stoppage in baseball since 1972. Just eight years ago, the World Series was canceled for the first time ever due to a work stoppage.

oldcomiskey
06-27-2002, 11:16 PM
then you are done with it

Daver
06-27-2002, 11:32 PM
Bud has already been quoted that he will take a hard line stance on payroll control,and that the time is now to "fix" the mistakes of the past,well I got news for you,the players ain't buying it,and don't feel that they should concede to the owners for the mistakes that they have made.I doubt we will see any games after mid August,because Bud has decided that the time is now to put his agenda ahead of the game.

Baseball needs an independent commisioner in a big way,someone that is willing to let the owners live by their stupid decisions instead of rushing to bail them out,yes I am talking about you ,Jeff Loria,MLB could have avoided all of this by simply allowing the Expos to go bankrupt.Bud was solely responsible for NOT letting that happen,and instead chose to buy out Loria,AND loan him,from MLB funds,the difference he needed to buy the Marlins.Who's kidding who?

I nominate Jesse Ventura as commisioner of baseball.

SoxxoS
06-27-2002, 11:45 PM
I guess you really aren't a Soxfan 4 life then, huh? :)

sox_fan_4life
06-28-2002, 07:01 AM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
I guess you really aren't a Soxfan 4 life then, huh? :)

I have loved and followed the Sox for as long as I can remember. I will always follow the Sox. But I will not be a fan of baseball.

kevingrt
06-28-2002, 08:17 AM
The likelyhood of a work stoppage keeps on rising and my love for the game keeps on lowering...

But I'll always love the Sox.

oldcomiskey
06-28-2002, 09:14 AM
thats a better way of putting it

DrWatson27
06-28-2002, 09:18 AM
Originally posted by sox_fan_4life
I have said it before. If they stop playing by either strike or walkout I am done with this sport.

You'll be back just like the thousands of people who said the same thing (myself included) in 1994. Why? because you love the game and it's in your blood. No matter how maddening the owners & players make it for fans it's the game itself the keeps bringing us back. Once you become a fan of the game you can't escape it. It's the sight of a home run or great play, the crack of the ball hitting the bat or the smack of a leather glove. The smell of hot dogs, cut grass and that ballpark smell (you know that smell). But for me it's the way baseball weaves a story game by game, inning by inning, pitch by pitch. If you love baseball this stuff gets ingrained in you head.
I tried staying away after 94. I was good for a while then I started going to my little brothers little league games. Then I started going to Kane County Cougars minor league games, hey it's the big paid pros and owners that I'm mad at not these low level guys-that's how I justified it in my head. But having experienced the skill and speed, and power of the "big club" left me knowing that the game was played so much better at the higher level, and I wanted to see the game at it's best. I stayed away for one season but that's it.

Will I be pissed when MLB goes on strike? Hell yes. Will I damn the sport and vow to never return? I might in my rage. Will I be back? It may take a year or it may take more but someday the action, the sounds, the sights, and the smells will lure me back. It could be the Sox actually producing a great team or someone simply giving me free tickets-but I will return, just like every other true baseball fan will. And this is why the players and owners don't worry about a stoppage. They are the ultimate baseball fans, it's their life so they know we will come back.

A stoppage will hurt the sport but the sport is to great to die. And diehard baseball fans like many on this board will make sure it never fades away.

SoxxoS
06-28-2002, 09:47 AM
Originally posted by DrWatson27
You'll be back just like the thousands of people who said the same thing (myself included) in 1994. Why? because you love the game and it's in your blood. No matter how maddening the owners & players make it for fans it's the game itself the keeps bringing us back. Once you become a fan of the game you can't escape it..

Dont tell the Owners union about that. I am actually in favor of a strike. Anything to get the possibility of a salary cap and/or the Yankees to not have a 350 million dollar payroll and win the AL pennant every year. If this sport was like football or basketball, with salary caps, the White Sox would do really well b/c they are good at evaluating young talent for the most part. Frank Thomas, Mags, CLee, Durham, Garland, Buerhle, Wright, are all home-grown talant, which when they came up, didnt make much money. Hence, having a salary cap would really help the White Sox. It would also help teams like the Twins, A's, Cubs, Cincy, etc. So, thats why I wouldnt mind having a strike if it accomplished something...

DrWatson27
06-28-2002, 09:57 AM
I would LOVE to see a salary cap in baseball but that's the one thing the union is dead set against. And based on past happenings the union never loses so I just don't see this happening. I really can't see anything constructive happening that lasts a long time until an independant (read: get rid of Selig)commisioner is appointed. :(:

MarkEdward
06-28-2002, 12:46 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS


Dont tell the Owners union about that. I am actually in favor of a strike. Anything to get the possibility of a salary cap and/or the Yankees to not have a 350 million dollar payroll and win the AL pennant every year. If this sport was like football or basketball, with salary caps, the White Sox would do really well b/c they are good at evaluating young talent for the most part. Frank Thomas, Mags, CLee, Durham, Garland, Buerhle, Wright, are all home-grown talant, which when they came up, didnt make much money. Hence, having a salary cap would really help the White Sox. It would also help teams like the Twins, A's, Cubs, Cincy, etc. So, thats why I wouldnt mind having a strike if it accomplished something...


Um, doesn't the fact that the Reds and Twins, both in first place, kind of refute your argument that baseball teams *need* a salary cap to compete? Heck, the Athletics and Sox are in second place, and the Cubs almost won their division last year. Baseball is very competitively balanced.

soxtalker
06-28-2002, 01:44 PM
I haven't really seen a good in-depth analysis of the effects of a salary cap. I don't really have one of those, but here are a few thoughts off the top of my head.

The main plus that I can see in a salary cap is that it might limit (or slow down the rate of increase) in ticket, parking, etc. prices. But that probably depends on each owner and club situation.

As far as it putting the Sox in a more competitive situation, the comment about the Reds and Twins is a good one. Also, I'm not sure that the Sox are that good about stocking and using their farm system. Two years ago I might have said "yes", but after KW's trades in the past two years, we're left with a pretty depleted organization. There is also the disturbing series of problems with promising pitchers developing arm injuries. On the acquisition side, we did not sign a couple of players in the 90's who might have been a big help (Weaver and Hill).

One of the things that I've noticed about the Yankees is that they've become much smarter about their farm system; several players were developed internally. Now, if there was a salary cap, the Yankees could still be expected to pull in more money than other major league teams. (I don't think that we're talking about anything approaching the profit-sharing setup of the NFL.) Steinbrenner could take it as profit, but he has shown an intense desire to win. So I would expect him to look for other ways to gain an advantage. One of these would probably be to focus even more on farm-system player acquisition (e.g., improved scouting around the world) and development.

Now, one might prefer a situation like that to the current one in which lots of money goes to a few major league players. In fact, I probably would, since I find minor league player development fascinating. Even if the Sox were losing, I used to love to monitor the progress of our minor leaguers in Baseball America, and look with hope to the future. (I don't really have that option currently.) But I wouldn't expect a salary cap to automatically provide a level playing field.

I'd love to hear other thoughts.

MarkEdward
06-28-2002, 02:43 PM
Originally posted by soxtalker
I haven't really seen a good in-depth analysis of the effects of a salary cap. I don't really have one of those, but here are a few thoughts off the top of my head.

The main plus that I can see in a salary cap is that it might limit (or slow down the rate of increase) in ticket, parking, etc. prices. But that probably depends on each owner and club situation.

As far as it putting the Sox in a more competitive situation, the comment about the Reds and Twins is a good one. Also, I'm not sure that the Sox are that good about stocking and using their farm system. Two years ago I might have said "yes", but after KW's trades in the past two years, we're left with a pretty depleted organization. There is also the disturbing series of problems with promising pitchers developing arm injuries. On the acquisition side, we did not sign a couple of players in the 90's who might have been a big help (Weaver and Hill).

One of the things that I've noticed about the Yankees is that they've become much smarter about their farm system; several players were developed internally. Now, if there was a salary cap, the Yankees could still be expected to pull in more money than other major league teams. (I don't think that we're talking about anything approaching the profit-sharing setup of the NFL.) Steinbrenner could take it as profit, but he has shown an intense desire to win. So I would expect him to look for other ways to gain an advantage. One of these would probably be to focus even more on farm-system player acquisition (e.g., improved scouting around the world) and development.

Now, one might prefer a situation like that to the current one in which lots of money goes to a few major league players. In fact, I probably would, since I find minor league player development fascinating. Even if the Sox were losing, I used to love to monitor the progress of our minor leaguers in Baseball America, and look with hope to the future. (I don't really have that option currently.) But I wouldn't expect a salary cap to automatically provide a level playing field.

I'd love to hear other thoughts.

Player salaries don't affect ticket prices. Even if players were making 5$ a year, ticket prices would remain the same. Otherwise, a very good post. The Yankees focused on their farm system and scouting, and it payed off for them.

KruseControl04
06-28-2002, 03:36 PM
Don't get me wrong, I don't want to be a strike, but ifs it's the only way for the players and owners to come to an agreement, so be it. There are a lot of problems in baseball. We need some kind of a better form of revenue sharing to help level the playing field. I'm not sure what I think of a salary cap though. One of the things I've always liked about baseball is that if the team is good enough to make the money, then they should be able to dish out the money to pay the good players. I recomend Fair Ball: A Fan's Case for Baseball by Bob Costas for anynone who wants to read more about baseball's financial woes. I did a report about the book last year. The book is a little dated, but it still contains some good information. And Bob Costas does present a few interesting ideas. I don't agree with all of them, but I think that a few of them would definatly help the game.