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DrCrawdad
09-17-2010, 12:16 AM
FWIW: On Steve Dahl's Podcast 9/16 Pat Boyle (http://www.dahl.com/podcasts/podcast/2010/09/16) said he hears that Ozzie is gone after this season. Potential replacements? Carlton Fisk. Tony Larussa.

LITTLE NELL
09-17-2010, 07:15 AM
If its true, let it be Fisk.

cws05champ
09-17-2010, 08:41 AM
I hope it's true.....but why Fisk. I like Fisk and everything but how about someone with a little more experience? I'm kind of tired of this nepotism (not sure if that's the right word in this case), or loyalty to former players by giving them important positions.

tstrike2000
09-17-2010, 09:06 AM
If Ozzie is gone, is there a reason to rumor about Fisk who has next to no MLB coaching experience?

rdwj
09-17-2010, 09:19 AM
I liked Fisk as a player, but I've heard a lot of stories about him being difficult - and he has no experience. I'd rather have Ozzie.

No problem with LaRussa

soltrain21
09-17-2010, 09:28 AM
I hope it's not Fisk.

Craig Grebeck
09-17-2010, 09:33 AM
I've been hearing whispers about Moose Skowron since May.

asindc
09-17-2010, 09:36 AM
I've been hearing whispers about Moose Skowron since May.

You're joking, right?

Chez
09-17-2010, 09:45 AM
I've been hearing whispers about Moose Skowron since May.

I've heard the same. Minnie Minoso would be his bench coach with Billy Pierce replacing Coop.

Craig Grebeck
09-17-2010, 09:45 AM
You're joking, right?
Yezzir.

Honestly, Skowron seems as likely as LaRussa or Fisk at this point.

TheOldRoman
09-17-2010, 10:25 AM
Eh, I don't know how "in the know" Boyle is. Did he specify whether Ozzie would step down or be fired?

Like Kenny, Ozzie has seemed to have a "I've had enough of this ****" attitude this year, but I always thought Ozzie's ego was so big he would say "I don't care if we win 40 games. I am going to manage and collect paychecks until they fire me." Maybe he is burnt out and wants a year off. I'm sure he would jump at the Marlins job if it were reopened in a year, going into their new stadium and being close to his adopted hometown.

johnnyg83
09-17-2010, 10:33 AM
I hope it's true.....but why Fisk. I like Fisk and everything but how about someone with a little more experience? I'm kind of tired of this nepotism (not sure if that's the right word in this case), or loyalty to former players by giving them important positions.

I like the loyalty to former players. I think it sends a good message to current players and free agents. Granted, you don't want to force it, but it certainly seems to be true from the existing broadcasting and coaching regimes.

jdm2662
09-17-2010, 10:47 AM
The way this season has gone, either one of Kenny or Ozzie was going. So, this would not surprise me. If I had to choose, it would be Ozzie. However, they are both big mouth idiots, but this whole crap with Ozzie's kids was an embarassment.

I wouldn't be against LaRussa, but seriously, Fisk? He's been out of baseball for 17 years, and he doesn't have the personality to be a manager. If he really wants to coach, make him a bench coach.

Noneck
09-17-2010, 11:20 AM
If he really wants to coach, make him a bench coach.

At first in Birmingham and then go from there.

Nellie_Fox
09-17-2010, 11:33 AM
If Fisk wanted to manage, don't you think he'd have done something about it by now? Why would you bring in a guy who's been out of baseball for this long? Do you think he knows the league, and the players? What makes anybody think he would make a good manager? Shouldn't you at least be a bench coach someplace first?

khan
09-17-2010, 11:35 AM
I wouldn't be sad if either or BOTH of Ozzie and Kenny are gone this offseason. They've had their chances, and they've come up wanting for the past 5 seasons. It may well be time to change directions in either one of their roles.

OTOH, I wouldn't mind if they stayed, IF some of their idiotic tendencies could be beaten out of their ego-soaked skulls. I rather doubt that they have the mental and emotional maturity to take an accurate accounting of their strengths and weaknesses and work on them, however. In any case, JR is uber-loyal, and values loyalty to a fault in many cases. I doubt either one of these egomaniacs will be going anywhere anytime soon.


[Cue the sheeple and ozzpologists to come to the defense of their heroes.]

Nellie_Fox
09-17-2010, 11:37 AM
[Cue the sheeple and ozzpologists to come to the defense of their heroes.]Nicely played. Dismiss anybody who might disagree with you before they even speak by calling them names. Well done.

hi im skot
09-17-2010, 11:45 AM
Joe Girardi!

Bobby Thigpen
09-17-2010, 11:48 AM
Nicely played. Dismiss anybody who might disagree with you before they even speak by calling them names. Well done.
You haven't noticed that this is how our society works now? Anyone that doesn't agree with you is obviously a company line towing sheeple.

Duh.

Bobby Thigpen
09-17-2010, 11:51 AM
And frankly, I'd like to see Ozzie and KW back simply because the alternatives or lack thereof scare me. A change could easily mean a return to the days of the mid to late 80s just as easily as it could be for the better.

hoosiersoxfan
09-17-2010, 12:05 PM
Lou Piniella!

TheOldRoman
09-17-2010, 12:06 PM
Nicely played. Dismiss anybody who might disagree with you before they even speak by calling them names. Well done.Yep, and as for the "sheeple" who blindly disagree with the Sox at every step, over-praise the Twins and denigrate the Sox... Well, the Sox won't win the World Series this year, so I guess that makes them right (even though the Sox overperformed their expectations). Of course, should the Sox win a championship again soon, we will classify it as an abberation and mock anyone who cites that as a success of management.

asindc
09-17-2010, 12:10 PM
And frankly, I'd like to see Ozzie and KW back simply because the alternatives or lack thereof scare me. A change could easily mean a return to the days of the mid to late 80s just as easily as it could be for the better.

This is a point I've been stressing during the many debates on this topic the past two seasons. It is always much, much easier to fire someone than it is to hire a replacement who will make the firing worthwhile.

Boondock Saint
09-17-2010, 12:17 PM
Ugh. If it's gonna be Fisk, I'd rather have Ozzie.

sox1970
09-17-2010, 12:27 PM
I'm surprised Boyle would come out with this considering the Sox are part owners of CSN.

As far as Fisk, I'm calling bull. They aren't going to hire a 63 year old first time manager. Give me a break.

LaRussa? No thanks.

I think when the dust settles, Ozzie and Kenny are both back next year.

Madvora
09-17-2010, 12:27 PM
Lou Piniella!
Hey, why don't we take Ryne Sandburg?

hi im skot
09-17-2010, 12:28 PM
Ugh. If it's gonna be Fisk, I'd rather have Ozzie.

Yeah, I can't see Fisk being someone you'd enjoy playing for.

Also, I don't know how much trust I put in Pat Boyle and his sources.

Someone here recently mentioned Dave Martinez's name; I could see him joining the fold if Ozzie is indeed done. I'd be surprised if he is, though.

russ99
09-17-2010, 12:28 PM
And frankly, I'd like to see Ozzie and KW back simply because the alternatives or lack thereof scare me. A change could easily mean a return to the days of the mid to late 80s just as easily as it could be for the better.

Completelty agree. People love to call me an "Ozzapologist", but I certainly prefer our current management team over any other I've seen since I've been a Sox fan, going back to the early 70s.

Also, I think Kenny's ability to push Jerry's buttons and keep him from running the team with yesmen as he did pre-2000 has a lot to do with the success of this club the last 10 years, and is vastly understated.

Sure, the Kenny/Ozzie relationship is chaotic at times, but if it wasn't it would be a heck of a lot more boring.

hi im skot
09-17-2010, 12:28 PM
I'm surprised Boyle would come out with this considering the Sox are part owners of CSN.

As far as Fisk, I'm calling bull. They aren't going to hire a 63 year old first time manager. Give me a break.

LaRussa? No thanks.

I think when the dust settles, Ozzie and Kenny are both back next year.

I agree with you on all points.

GoGoCrede
09-17-2010, 12:30 PM
Ugh. If it's gonna be Fisk, I'd rather have Ozzie.

Agreed 100%.

hoosiersoxfan
09-17-2010, 12:36 PM
Hey, why don't we take Ryne Sandburg?

Could you imagine if the Cubs hired someone other than Sandburg and he ever ended up on the southside managing. I can't even fathom what the Cubs fans reactions would be like.

Craig Grebeck
09-17-2010, 12:37 PM
It won't be Fisk. I highly doubt that the team wants a high-profile guy if Ozzie hits the road. Of course, I doubt Fisk will say the boneheaded/insensitive **** Ozzie says.

Craig Grebeck
09-17-2010, 12:38 PM
Could you imagine if the Cubs hired someone other than Sandburg and he ever ended up on the southside managing. I can't even fathom what the Cubs fans reactions would be like.
I know more than one Cubs fan who thinks Sandberg would be a very, very, very bad choice.

tebman
09-17-2010, 12:39 PM
What's Terry Bevington doing? :duck:

GoGoCrede
09-17-2010, 12:39 PM
I hope it won't be Joey Cora.

GoGoCrede
09-17-2010, 12:40 PM
What's Terry Bevington doing? :duck:

Don't even JOKE about that. :tongue:

hoosiersoxfan
09-17-2010, 12:40 PM
Any chance they let Joey Cora take over? He seems bound to get a shot somewhere eventually.

ChiSoxGirl
09-17-2010, 12:41 PM
What's Terry Bevington doing? :duck:

A certain troll that we all know and hate has been spewing man love for Terry Bevington for awhile now, claiming he was the best manager the Sox - and baseball - have ever seen. Clearly, there is zero rationale behind that statement. And, considering the source, that should surprise no one.

GoGoCrede
09-17-2010, 12:42 PM
A certain troll that we all know and hate has been spewing man love for Terry Bevington for awhile now, claiming he was the best manager the Sox - and baseball - have ever seen. Clearly, there is zero rationale behind that statement. And, considering the source, that should surprise no one.

I wasn't watching then, but isn't he the infamous guy who called for a pitching change with nobody up in the pen?

SI1020
09-17-2010, 12:47 PM
This is a point I've been stressing during the many debates on this topic the past two seasons. It is always much, much easier to fire someone than it is to hire a replacement who will make the firing worthwhile. You are absolutely correct, but sometimes a change is necessary anyway. I think it would be best for everyone if Ozzie worked elsewhere next year. I wonder if Ozzie himself has come to the same conclusion.

Domeshot17
09-17-2010, 12:50 PM
I would love to have Larussa back. My only problem would be it would almost certainly mean Dave Duncan replaces Coop as the pitching coach. Its probably a lateral move, but Coop has a good repore with the current staff.

If Ozzie gets a free pass because of 2005, Larussa can't be a downgrade, can he?

khan
09-17-2010, 12:53 PM
Nicely played. Dismiss anybody who might disagree with you before they even speak by calling them names. Well done.
There is the contingent that simply refuse to disagree with management about ANYTHING. Even when one or both are CLEARLY in the wrong. These are sheeple and ozzpologists.

We as fans have been around for much longer than both Ozzie and Kenny, and we will continue to be around well after they are both gone. We have both the right and the responsibility to hold them accountable.

Yep, and as for the "sheeple" who blindly disagree with the Sox at every step, over-praise the Twins and denigrate the Sox...
I don't know ANYONE that "blindly disagree with the Sox at every step, over-praise the Twins and denigrate the Sox" anywhere on WSI. Hyperbole, much?

For my part, I praise KW and Ozzie where they should be praised, and I criticize them when they should. I merely don't like supporting ego-soaked maniacs that say and do stupid things. I don't think that two guys that have said and done stupid things should be blindly supported because of something that happened HALF A DECADE ago.

Completelty agree. People love to call me an "Ozzapologist", but I certainly prefer our current management team over any other I've seen since I've been a Sox fan, going back to the early 70s.

Great. So since you've seen ****ty SOX teams, it's OK to miss out on the playoffs in 80% of the past 5 seasons?

Sorry, but I've lived through some lean times, and I didn't like them. I didn't like seeing my favorite team make stupid decisions that ended up making the team suck. I liked winning the WS. But guess what:

2005 is FIVE ****ING YEARS AGO. At some point, the management has to RE-earn that trust and respect by putting out a winning side again. Clearly, KW and Ozzie have come up wanting in 4 years out of 5, even if you use the middling benchmark of making the playoffs out of the middling ALC.

The "In Kenny/Ozzie We Trust" types are the kind of people who enjoyed watching their kid finish #1 in his class 5 years ago, only to see him finish with Cs and Ds in 4 of the 5 following years. In other words, to praise his kid for something he did YEARS ago, while he fails to live up to his expectations NOW.

You can be happy with 1 playoff appearance every 5 seasons if you want, and that's cool. I, on the other hand, believe we as fans should hold this team to a higher standard than that. [Again, 2005 is FIVE YEARS AGO.]

SI1020
09-17-2010, 12:59 PM
Nicely played. Dismiss anybody who might disagree with you before they even speak by calling them names. Well done. It works both ways. My posts are sometimes met with outright disdain, without an attempt at rational criticism. It's just the nature of message boards. There is the anonymity of the medium, the nastiness of the times, and the sense of how irrelevant we as men are becoming in the world today. Mix it all together and you get a lot of nasty discourse on the internet. This place still has more decent dialogue than most others. End of rant.

Bobby Thigpen
09-17-2010, 01:16 PM
There is the contingent that simply refuse to disagree with management about ANYTHING. Even when one or both are CLEARLY in the wrong. These are sheeple and ozzpologists.

We as fans have been around for much longer than both Ozzie and Kenny, and we will continue to be around well after they are both gone. We have both the right and the responsibility to hold them accountable.


I don't know ANYONE that "blindly disagree with the Sox at every step, over-praise the Twins and denigrate the Sox" anywhere on WSI. Hyperbole, much?

For my part, I praise KW and Ozzie where they should be praised, and I criticize them when they should. I merely don't like supporting ego-soaked maniacs that say and do stupid things. I don't think that two guys that have said and done stupid things should be blindly supported because of something that happened HALF A DECADE ago.


Great. So since you've seen ****ty SOX teams, it's OK to miss out on the playoffs in 80% of the past 5 seasons?

Sorry, but I've lived through some lean times, and I didn't like them. I didn't like seeing my favorite team make stupid decisions that ended up making the team suck. I liked winning the WS. But guess what:

2005 is FIVE ****ING YEARS AGO. At some point, the management has to RE-earn that trust and respect by putting out a winning side again. Clearly, KW and Ozzie have come up wanting in 4 years out of 5, even if you use the middling benchmark of making the playoffs out of the middling ALC.

The "In Kenny/Ozzie We Trust" types are the kind of people who enjoyed watching their kid finish #1 in his class 5 years ago, only to see him finish with Cs and Ds in 4 of the 5 following years. In other words, to praise his kid for something he did YEARS ago, while he fails to live up to his expectations NOW.

You can be happy with 1 playoff appearance every 5 seasons if you want, and that's cool. I, on the other hand, believe we as fans should hold this team to a higher standard than that. [Again, 2005 is FIVE YEARS AGO.]
You act like 5 years ago is so long ago.

This is a fan base that suffered through an 88 year drought. I'll gladly take 5 over 88 any day.

SoxSpeed22
09-17-2010, 01:26 PM
The finger pointers abilities to block out 2008 still amazes me.
If Ozzie is going to be gone, it will be because he leaves on his own. He's talked about retirement plenty of times.

asindc
09-17-2010, 01:37 PM
There is the contingent that simply refuse to disagree with management about ANYTHING. Even when one or both are CLEARLY in the wrong. These are sheeple and ozzpologists.

We as fans have been around for much longer than both Ozzie and Kenny, and we will continue to be around well after they are both gone. We have both the right and the responsibility to hold them accountable.


I don't know ANYONE that "blindly disagree with the Sox at every step, over-praise the Twins and denigrate the Sox" anywhere on WSI. Hyperbole, much?

For my part, I praise KW and Ozzie where they should be praised, and I criticize them when they should. I merely don't like supporting ego-soaked maniacs that say and do stupid things. I don't think that two guys that have said and done stupid things should be blindly supported because of something that happened HALF A DECADE ago.


Great. So since you've seen ****ty SOX teams, it's OK to miss out on the playoffs in 80% of the past 5 seasons?

Sorry, but I've lived through some lean times, and I didn't like them. I didn't like seeing my favorite team make stupid decisions that ended up making the team suck. I liked winning the WS. But guess what:

2005 is FIVE ****ING YEARS AGO. At some point, the management has to RE-earn that trust and respect by putting out a winning side again. Clearly, KW and Ozzie have come up wanting in 4 years out of 5, even if you use the middling benchmark of making the playoffs out of the middling ALC.

The "In Kenny/Ozzie We Trust" types are the kind of people who enjoyed watching their kid finish #1 in his class 5 years ago, only to see him finish with Cs and Ds in 4 of the 5 following years. In other words, to praise his kid for something he did YEARS ago, while he fails to live up to his expectations NOW.

You can be happy with 1 playoff appearance every 5 seasons if you want, and that's cool. I, on the other hand, believe we as fans should hold this team to a higher standard than that. [Again, 2005 is FIVE YEARS AGO.]

Since in your apparently typical eagerness to hurl insults you have not bothered to edit your post, I'm left to conclude that you missed the incongruency of the two bolded statements appearing in the same post. Irony escape you much?

No one posting here has expressed happiness about having made the playoffs only once in the past five years. What you seem to have mistaken as happiness is just disagreement about what should be done to improve the team.

russ99
09-17-2010, 01:44 PM
There is the contingent that simply refuse to disagree with management about ANYTHING. Even when one or both are CLEARLY in the wrong. These are sheeple and ozzpologists.

We as fans have been around for much longer than both Ozzie and Kenny, and we will continue to be around well after they are both gone. We have both the right and the responsibility to hold them accountable.


I don't know ANYONE that "blindly disagree with the Sox at every step, over-praise the Twins and denigrate the Sox" anywhere on WSI. Hyperbole, much?

For my part, I praise KW and Ozzie where they should be praised, and I criticize them when they should. I merely don't like supporting ego-soaked maniacs that say and do stupid things. I don't think that two guys that have said and done stupid things should be blindly supported because of something that happened HALF A DECADE ago.


Great. So since you've seen ****ty SOX teams, it's OK to miss out on the playoffs in 80% of the past 5 seasons?

Sorry, but I've lived through some lean times, and I didn't like them. I didn't like seeing my favorite team make stupid decisions that ended up making the team suck. I liked winning the WS. But guess what:

2005 is FIVE ****ING YEARS AGO. At some point, the management has to RE-earn that trust and respect by putting out a winning side again. Clearly, KW and Ozzie have come up wanting in 4 years out of 5, even if you use the middling benchmark of making the playoffs out of the middling ALC.

The "In Kenny/Ozzie We Trust" types are the kind of people who enjoyed watching their kid finish #1 in his class 5 years ago, only to see him finish with Cs and Ds in 4 of the 5 following years. In other words, to praise his kid for something he did YEARS ago, while he fails to live up to his expectations NOW.

You can be happy with 1 playoff appearance every 5 seasons if you want, and that's cool. I, on the other hand, believe we as fans should hold this team to a higher standard than that. [Again, 2005 is FIVE YEARS AGO.]

See, this is the problem here.

You're acting like a Cubs, Yankees and Red Sox fan blindly expecting your team to with the Series every single year and when they don't then everyone's an idiot and all players/coaches/management should get fired or traded.

Talk to me again when you have any sense of reality of what is considered a successful major league team.

By your reckoning, 29 of the 30 teams is a failure every year. That's not being a fan, that's being ridiculous.

khan
09-17-2010, 02:05 PM
You act like 5 years ago is so long ago.

This is a fan base that suffered through an 88 year drought. I'll gladly take 5 over 88 any day.
So would I. But I also don't like missing the playoffs in 80% of the seasons since then. Given that the ALC has been a weak division in most of the seasons since 2005, 1 playoff berth out of 5 seasons is unacceptable.

The finger pointers abilities to block out 2008 still amazes me.
I don't know if this is directed at me. But, go back and read my post. I did say "80% of the seasons since 2005," which does account for 2008.

In fact, I've referred to this in several different places.

Since in your apparently typical eagerness to hurl insults you have not bothered to edit your post, I'm left to conclude that you missed the incongruency of the two bolded statements appearing in the same post. Irony escape you much?

In another thread, I actually asked Tdog and russ to repost anything they've posted in the past ~6 months that was in any way critical of the front office or the field manager. That was awhile ago, and I'm still waiting.

I have praised the SOX when they do things well, and I have criticized them when they do stupid things also. Therein lies the difference. It isn't an "insult," by the way: I disagree with their point of view, but I don't attack them.

By their nature of never disagreeing with the team, they live up to their nomenclature.

No one posting here has expressed happiness about having made the playoffs only once in the past five years.
Actually, Russ99 posted, "...People love to call me an "Ozzapologist", but I certainly prefer our current management team over any other I've seen since I've been a Sox fan, going back to the early 70s..."

In other words, since Ozzie isn't as stupid as Terry Bevington, he's happy with Ozzie. Since the SOX's record under Ozzie is better than it was under the dim bulbs of yesteryear, that's "good enough."

Also, since KW is better than Hawk was as GM, it's peachy-keen in russ99's world.


Sorry, but that sounds like comparing the current guys to the ****heads of the past. I prefer to compare the current guys' work to the best in the business. I prefer to compare the current SOX team against other current successful teams, NOT the bad teams of the past.

By Russ' measurement, simply being a D- student is "good enough," even if you've got "A" level intellect and ability.


Talk to me again when you have any sense of reality of what is considered a successful major league team.

By your reckoning, 29 of the 30 teams is a failure every year. That's not being a fan, that's being ridiculous.

Reading is a skill. Here's my previous post. Try to read and understand the bolded/underlined part again:

..."2005 is FIVE ****ING YEARS AGO. At some point, the management has to RE-earn that trust and respect by putting out a winning side again. Clearly, KW and Ozzie have come up wanting in 4 years out of 5, even if you use the middling benchmark of making the playoffs out of the middling ALC."...


Sounds like I used the benchmark of making the playoffs out of the middling ALC.


Meanwhile, you're stuck on the idea that Ozzie/KW are better than a pile of failures, so they should hold their jobs in perpetuity. I suggest you raise your standards a bit.

russ99
09-17-2010, 02:09 PM
Reading is a skill. Here's my previous post. Try to read and understand the bolded/underlined part again:

..."2005 is FIVE ****ING YEARS AGO. At some point, the management has to RE-earn that trust and respect by putting out a winning side again. Clearly, KW and Ozzie have come up wanting in 4 years out of 5, even if you use the middling benchmark of making the playoffs out of the middling ALC."...


Sounds like I used the benchmark of making the playoffs out of the middline ALC.


Meanwhile, you're stuck on the idea that Ozzie is better than Bevington, so he should hold his job in perpetuity. I suggest you raise your standards a bit.

Not whatsover. He's got a contract. If the team and/or Ozzie decides to part ways afterwards, fine.

But there's no guarantee the next guy won't be Terry Bevington. Baseball managers factor into the success of the team more than head coaches of any other sport.

And for those who expect a World Series every year or two, go follow the Yankees. They spend ridiculous amounts of money on players they don't need, make the playoffs every year or so, and fire managers and staff at the drop of a hat. After 40+ years of watching Sox baseball, you'd be a lot happier with them, trust me.

dickallen15
09-17-2010, 02:13 PM
See, this is the problem here.

You're acting like a Cubs, Yankees and Red Sox fan blindly expecting your team to with the Series every single year and when they don't then everyone's an idiot and all players/coaches/management should get fired or traded.

Talk to me again when you have any sense of reality of what is considered a successful major league team.

By your reckoning, 29 of the 30 teams is a failure every year. That's not being a fan, that's being ridiculous.
KW has been the Sox GM 10 years. They made the playoffs 2 times. There are 5 teams in the AL Central plus the possibility of wild card. 14 AL teams, 3 playoff spots. That's a little better than 1 out of 5. You may like all he brings to the table but the results, especially considering the advantages he's had over the other AL Central teams financially during his tenure are average save for the World Series. Now if a ball doesn't roll through Tony Graffinino's legs and El Duque, a guy KW didn't even want on the postseason roster doesn't do an escape act in Boston, a couple of situations KW really had nothing to do with, maybe the Sox don't get out of round one. But he did his job, which IMO is getting his team the ability to make the playoffs. What happens during the playoffs has nothing to do with the GM.

Ozzie has been here 7 years. I believe Manuel was here 7 year and won 86 his final season before he was launched. I don't think Ozzie will get launched, I suppose he may if KW really can't stand him, but it may be time for him to leave and he may know that better than anyone else.

khan
09-17-2010, 02:13 PM
And for those who expect a World Series every year or two, go follow the Yankees. They spend ridiculous amounts of money on players they don't need, make the playoffs every year or so, and fire managers and staff at the drop of a hat. After 40+ years of watching Sox baseball, you'd be a lot happier with them, trust me.

Holy ****! Maybe you really can't read, or refuse to do so. I apologize to you.


And this is literally RIGHT AFTER I re-posted the following:

..."2005 is FIVE ****ING YEARS AGO. At some point, the management has to RE-earn that trust and respect by putting out a winning side again. Clearly, KW and Ozzie have come up wanting in 4 years out of 5, even if you use the middling benchmark of making the playoffs out of the middling ALC."...

My benchmark is a little lower than winning the world series every year or two. Wow.

asindc
09-17-2010, 02:24 PM
So would I. But I also don't like missing the playoffs in 80% of the seasons since then. Given that the ALC has been a weak division in most of the seasons since 2005, 1 playoff berth out of 5 seasons is unacceptable.,,

... I have praised the SOX when they do things well, and I have criticized them when they do stupid things also. Therein lies the difference. It isn't an "insult," by the way: I disagree with their point of view, but I don't attack them.

By their nature of never disagreeing with the team, they live up to their nomenclature...

... Actually, Russ99 posted, "...People love to call me an "Ozzapologist", but I certainly prefer our current management team over any other I've seen since I've been a Sox fan, going back to the early 70s..."

In other words, since Ozzie isn't as stupid as Terry Bevington, he's happy with Ozzie. Since the SOX's record under Ozzie is better than it was under the dim bulbs of yesteryear, that's "good enough..."

...Sorry, but that sounds like comparing the current guys to the ****heads of the past. I prefer to compare the current guys' work to the best in the business. I prefer to compare the current SOX team against other current successful teams, NOT the bad teams of the past...

... Meanwhile, you're stuck on the idea that Ozzie/KW are better than a pile of failures, so they should hold his job in perpetuity. I suggest you raise your standards a bit.

"Sheeple" and "Ozzpologists" certainly aren't flattering terms.

You and I read russ' posts differently, then. He has a higher opinion of KW and Ozzie than you (with your opinion of them being so low, I imagine most Sox fans have a higher opinion of them than you do), but I read no satisfaction with the results of the past five years in his posts. The difference seems to be how much direct accountability you would attribute to KW and Ozzie for the 2006-2010 record versus others in the organization (i.e., players, owners, coaches, etc.) and how the team should be improved.

I agree with the third bolded point above, but then I would be surprised if you could find anyone who posts here who disagrees with it. To be clear, disagreeing on who to blame and how best to improve the team is not the same as disagreeing with that statement.

khan
09-17-2010, 02:24 PM
KW has been the Sox GM 10 years. They made the playoffs 2 times. There are 5 teams in the AL Central plus the possibility of wild card. 14 AL teams, 3 playoff spots. That's a little better than 1 out of 5. You may like all he brings to the table but the results, especially considering the advantages he's had over the other AL Central teams financially during his tenure are average save for the World Series.

Thank you for posting this. This is well-stated. KW's tenure has brought a less-than-expected frequency for playoff appearances.

Ozzie has been here 7 years. I believe Manuel was here 7 year and won 86 his final season before he was launched. I don't think Ozzie will get launched, I suppose he may if KW really can't stand him, but it may be time for him to leave and he may know that better than anyone else.

I also agree with this. I have also stated that I wouldn't mind if both return, IF they can bridge some of their weaknesses. However, I doubt that KW/OG will, inasmuch as I doubt that either will be gone by next season.

tebman
09-17-2010, 02:26 PM
I wasn't watching then, but isn't he the infamous guy who called for a pitching change with nobody up in the pen?

Yep, that's our own Terry Bevington. One of my favorites was listening to part of his press conference when he was named manager. He repeatedly said he had confidence, in the hitting, in the bench, in the bullpen, and on and on. A reporter asked what makes him so confident, and he said (paraphrasing), "You know why I'm confident? Because I'm confident."

:scratch:

AlexRios51
09-17-2010, 02:34 PM
FWIW: On Steve Dahl's Podcast 9/16 Pat Boyle (http://www.dahl.com/podcasts/podcast/2010/09/16) said he hears that Ozzie is gone after this season. Potential replacements? Carlton Fisk. Tony Larussa.
:bandance:

khan
09-17-2010, 02:40 PM
"Sheeple" and "Ozzpologists" certainly aren't flattering terms.


You and I read russ' posts differently, then. He has a higher opinion of KW and Ozzie than you
This is true, in fact, up to the point that he has [thus far] been unable to produce ANY EVIDENCE of him ever disagreeing with Ozzie or KW. In fact, I'd suggest that this is evidence of an artificially high opinion of guys that haven't been significant outperformers in their jobs.

(with your opinion of them being so low, I imagine most Sox fans have a higher opinion of them than you do), but I read no satisfaction with the results of the past five years in his posts.
1. Russ has stated over and over that "he's seen bad teams since the 70s, so KW/OG are OK." If that isn't implicit satisfaction, I don't know what is satisfaction. On the other hand, since he's NEVER disagreed [to my knowledge, anyway] with KW/OG, it is a fairly clear sign of satisfaction.

2. Honestly, I think that KW is average at his job, when you consider the clear financial advantages he's enjoyed over the majority of the division opponents. For every great move or great decision he makes, he's made at least as many dumb ones. Unfortunately, his ego leads himself to have an inflated sense of accomplishment, which has made him less of a GM than his talents/abilities suggest he should be.

The results are fairly evident after a decade of KW's tenure.

3. I think that Ozzie is an above-average field manager, but "not much" above average. However, much like Mike Ditka 25 years ago, his ego makes him believe that he's the best at his job in the history of the game. Unfortunately, much like with KW, this weakness makes his degree of success and effectiveness much less than a man of his abilites and talent.

I also think that the results are reflective of his accomplishments. Like KW, he should be better than he is.


The difference seems to be how much direct accountability you would attribute to KW and Ozzie for the 2006-2010 record versus others in the organization (i.e., players, owners, coaches, etc.) and how the team should be improved.
1. Since the front office and field manager decide who is in the roster and how the roster is utilized, I'd say that they should be held more accountable than they have been.

Inasmuch as we have a distaste for players that put out a poor effort, I have a distaste for decisionmakers that make decisions emotionally instead of rationally. I also have a distaste for ongoing and repeated STUPID decisions.

2. I have not had much disagreement with the degree of committment by ownership. $110M should be sufficient to win this division.

3. I think that I've been fair with the players. Some simply aren't good enough, and never should have been here. [See Teahen and Kotsay as examples.] But I do not see poor effort on the part of the players. Thus, they're trying their best, but it was stupid to have a team assembled in this way.

Now, if players were visibly dogging it, I think we'd all see it. And I'd be among the first to call them out for dogging it.

I agree with the third bolded point above, but then I would be surprised if you could find anyone who posts here who disagrees with it. To be clear, disagreeing on who to blame and how best to improve the team is not the same as disagreeing with that statement.
I understand. But no one is infallible. It is merely interesting that some NEVER disagree with certain members of the SOX organization, despite this law of human nature.

At least one poster has used a lesser measuring stick [the previous ****ty GMs/managers of the past] instead of more valid measures.

doublem23
09-17-2010, 02:42 PM
If Ozzie gets a free pass because of 2005, Larussa can't be a downgrade, can he?

Sure, as soon as LaRussa wins anything with a team that's not roided out of its mind.

russ99
09-17-2010, 02:51 PM
To the point that he has [thus far] been unable to produce ANY EVIDENCE of him ever disagreeing with Ozzie or KW. In fact, I'd suggest that this is evidence of an artificially high opinion of guys that haven't been significant outperformers in their jobs.

2. Honestly, I think that KW is average at his job, when you consider the clear financial advantages he's enjoyed over the majority of the division opponents. For every great move or great decision he makes, he's made at least as many dumb ones. Unfortunately, his ego leads himself to have an inflated sense of accomplishment, which has made him less of a GM than his talents/abilities suggest he should be.

The results are fairly evident after a decade of KW's tenure.

3. I think that Ozzie is an above-average field manager, but "not much" above average. However, much like Mike Ditka 25 years ago, his ego makes him believe that he's the best at his job in the history of the game. Unfortunately, much like with KW, this weakness makes his degree of success and effectiveness much less than a man of his abilites and talent.

I also think that the results are reflective of his accomplishments. Like KW, he should be better than he is.

1. Since the front office and field manager decide who is in the roster and how the roster is utilized, I'd say that they should be held more accountable than they have been.

Inasmuch as we have a distaste for players that put out a poor effort, I have a distaste for decisionmakers that make decisions emotionally instead of rationally. I also have a distaste for ongoing and repeated STUPID decisions.

2. I have not had much disagreement with the degree of committment by ownership. $110M should be sufficient to win this division.

3. I think that I've been fair with the players. Some simply aren't good enough, and never should have been here. [See Teahen and Kotsay as examples.] But I do not see poor effort on the part of the players. Thus, they're trying their best, but it was stupid to have a team assembled in this way.

Now, if players were visibly dogging it, I think we'd all see it. And I'd be among the first to call them out for dogging it.


I understand. But no one is infallible. It is merely interesting that some NEVER disagree with certain members of the SOX organization, despite this law of human nature.

At least one poster has used a lesser measuring stick [the previous ****ty GMs/managers of the past] instead of more valid measures.

If financial advantages are such an important factor in a successful team, the Cubs would win every year.

What measures do you use to compare the Sox management team?

1. Russ has stated over and over that "he's seen bad teams since the 70s, so KW/OG are OK." If that isn't implicit satisfaction, I don't know what is satisfaction. On the other hand, since he's NEVER disagreed [to my knowledge, anyway] with KW/OG, it is a fairly clear sign of satisfaction.

Dude, please drop this crap. Why the heck do I have to explain myself to you? This board is about the baseball club, not my opinions. And I've critcized Ozzie, Kenny and Jerry plenty in the last 7 years, but I don't have to show anything to someone so critical and bitter.

EDIT - forget this, I'm not lowering myself to this level.

cards press box
09-17-2010, 03:19 PM
I wouldn't be against LaRussa.

I wouldn't like to see LaRussa come back. I wasn't a big fan when he was here and I'm not crazy about his tenure with the A's when steroid use was running rampant and he apparently didn't do much about it.

I don't think Ozzie will leave unless he wants to do so. I simply cannot imagine Jerry Reinsdorf firing either Ozzie or KW. If, however, Ozzie decides to leave, I think the next manager will be a current major league bench coach: either Joey Cora or Tampa's Dave Martinez. Because Cora is already here, I would give him the edge.

You haven't noticed that this is how our society works now? Anyone that doesn't agree with you is obviously a company line towing sheeple.

Duh.

That is not a cheery thought but perhaps an accurate one. Too bad for all of us.

Someone here recently mentioned Dave Martinez's name; I could see him joining the fold if Ozzie is indeed done. I'd be surprised if he is, though.

Agree on all counts.

Completelty agree. People love to call me an "Ozzapologist", but I certainly prefer our current management team over any other I've seen since I've been a Sox fan, going back to the early 70s.

Also, I think Kenny's ability to push Jerry's buttons and keep him from running the team with yesmen as he did pre-2000 has a lot to do with the success of this club the last 10 years, and is vastly understated.

Sure, the Kenny/Ozzie relationship is chaotic at times, but if it wasn't it would be a heck of a lot more boring.

I like the current management team, too, and I also remember some bad teams in the '70's and '80's. Consider this -- if Jake Peavy didn't the lat injury (and while he's had past injuries, the lat was a freak injury), if Carlos Quentin just approached the 2008 Quentin and if Delmon Young didn't have a break out year this year, then the Sox would be a lot better than 5-13 against Minny and would be in a dogfight with Minnesota for the division. But Peavy did get hurt, Quentin has been enigmatic and Young has played great (even if he made an obnoxious slide into home in Minnesota). Does that justify turning out the management team? I don't think so.

canOcorn
09-17-2010, 03:26 PM
Sure, as soon as LaRussa wins anything with a team that's not roided out of its mind.

The 2006 Cardinals were roided out of their mind? :scratch:

Craig Grebeck
09-17-2010, 03:51 PM
Get a guy who will do the job and maintain a somewhat low profile. Christ. Is that so hard?

I wouldn't go near LaRussa with a ten foot pole.

Nellie_Fox
09-17-2010, 04:02 PM
Get a guy who will do the job and maintain a somewhat low profile. Christ. Is that so hard?

I wouldn't go near LaRussa with a ten foot pole.It doesn't matter who it is. The first time he doesn't win the division, we'll start hearing "somebody has to be held accountable for this. He has to go. Anything would be better. He's obviously lost the team."

khan
09-17-2010, 04:06 PM
If financial advantages are such an important factor in a successful team, the Cubs would win every year.
This would be true, IF their front office was even average. They're so far below average that it has effectively nullified their financial advantages.

Stated another way, stupid management has prevented them from succeeding to a degree that parallels their expected level.


What measures do you use to compare the Sox management team?
1. Above all else, Frequency with which the SOX get into the playoffs. What happened in the past is in the past.

2. The quality of the team's performance relative to their competitors in the current season. [In other words, since the 2010 SOX don't play the 1989 SOX, I don't compare the current management to that of 21 years ago. I compare the current management of the SOX to the current management of other 2010 MLB clubs.]

What do you use?

Dude, please drop this crap. Why the heck do I have to explain myself to you? This board is about the baseball club, not my opinions. And I've critcized Ozzie, Kenny and Jerry plenty in the last 7 years, but I don't have to show anything to someone so critical and bitter.
Look, you're clearly not a bad guy, nor a dumb guy. You simply seem to have some opinions without any real basis for them.

SOXSINCE'70
09-17-2010, 04:10 PM
Joe Girardi!

I'm a Casey Stengel fan myself.:D::roflmao:

SOXSINCE'70
09-17-2010, 04:18 PM
Yep, that's our own Terry Bevington. One of my favorites was listening to part of his press conference when he was named manager. He repeatedly said he had confidence, in the hitting, in the bench, in the bullpen, and on and on. A reporter asked what makes him so confident, and he said (paraphrasing), "You know why I'm confident? Because I'm confident."

:scratch:

My favorite Bevington moment occurred during that tumutuous '97 season in Seattle.Many older WSI er's should remember this one:
Robin Ventura hit a ball down the third base line.Literally right on the chalk,IIRC.The question:Was the ball fair or foul??
I'll never forget Terry's reply.
To paraphrase:

"Robin says it's fair, Lou (Pinella) says it's foul.. Foul or fair?"

tstrike2000
09-17-2010, 04:31 PM
What's Terry Bevington doing? :duck:

He's looking out of his front window waiting for the pizza he forgot to order in the first place.

doublem23
09-17-2010, 04:43 PM
It doesn't matter who it is. The first time he doesn't win the division, we'll start hearing "somebody has to be held accountable for this. He has to go. Anything would be better. He's obviously lost the team."

Seriously, I love how apparently all you need to be an MLB manager is a bullet point on your resume that reads "I'll do a good job," and that'd be sufficient.

hdog1017
09-17-2010, 04:53 PM
I don't find Pat Boyle to be a credible source. Yeah, Ozzie might not be back, but I don't think Boyle has any inside info.

There are tons of MLB "insiders" (Heyman, Gammons, Stark, etc) that I would trust over Boyle.

dickallen15
09-17-2010, 04:59 PM
Seriously, I love how apparently all you need to be an MLB manager is a bullet point on your resume that reads "I'll do a good job," and that'd be sufficient.

I don't think the White Sox have hired a manager with previous MLB managerial experience since Jeff Torborg over 20 years ago.

asindc
09-17-2010, 05:06 PM
He's looking out of his front window waiting for the pizza he forgot to order in the first place.

Well played, sir.

asindc
09-17-2010, 05:08 PM
I don't find Pat Boyle to be a credible source. Yeah, Ozzie might not be back, but I don't think Boyle has any inside info.

There are tons of MLB "insiders" (Heyman, Gammons, Stark, etc) that I would trust over Boyle.

My first reaction to the the thread title was, "What's a Pat Boyle?"

Foulke You
09-17-2010, 05:45 PM
IF Ozzie were to be relieved of his duties, I have a feeling LaRussa might be the one to step in because of his relationship with Reinsdorf as well as his displeasure with the situation in St Louis. I wouldn't be too opposed to LaRussa like some people are. At least it is a manager with a lot of division titles and World Series Championships under his belt.

I know I might take some heat for this, but I also think Eric Wedge might be a good manager for us too. He knows the AL Central pretty well and he got a lot out of those low payroll Indians teams. I always felt he was the scapegoat for Cleveland's upper management's failures.

I agree with a lot of other posters about Fisk not being the right choice. I love the guy, but there is nothing that makes me think he would be a good choice to be a manager in today's game. He also has zero experience. Just because a guy is a great former player, doesn't mean he will be a good manager.

1989
09-17-2010, 05:51 PM
Fredi Gonzalez

Foulke You
09-17-2010, 05:56 PM
Fredi Gonzalez
Yeah, he would be a good candidate too although he probably is going to take over for Bobby Cox in Atlanta.

nccwsfan
09-17-2010, 07:04 PM
Completelty agree. People love to call me an "Ozzapologist", but I certainly prefer our current management team over any other I've seen since I've been a Sox fan, going back to the early 70s.

Also, I think Kenny's ability to push Jerry's buttons and keep him from running the team with yesmen as he did pre-2000 has a lot to do with the success of this club the last 10 years, and is vastly understated.

Sure, the Kenny/Ozzie relationship is chaotic at times, but if it wasn't it would be a heck of a lot more boring.

I'm with you Russ. Whether you like/dislike Ozzie, Kenny, or both- there is no debate that this has been the most successful era in White Sox baseball since the 1910's. Could it be better? Sure, but some should be careful what they wish for....

Still shudder to think of some of those late 80's teams.

PS- no to Fisk and no to LaRussa.

A. Cavatica
09-17-2010, 07:38 PM
And frankly, I'd like to see Ozzie and KW back simply because the alternatives or lack thereof scare me. A change could easily mean a return to the days of the mid to late 80s just as easily as it could be for the better.

Core players have gotten old, and all the talent in the minor league system has been traded. A new manager is just the start of the rebuilding that needs to be done.

rainbow6
09-17-2010, 08:14 PM
So would I. But I also don't like missing the playoffs in 80% of the seasons since then. Given that the ALC has been a weak division in most of the seasons since 2005, 1 playoff berth out of 5 seasons is unacceptable.

I'm too lazy to look this up but didn't the Tigers have close the best record in the league in '06? And the Sox won 90 that year (or close to it?)

Aren't the Twins close to having the best record in the AL this year?

And we won a the division in '08? So in the five seasons since the WS we won a division crown and would have had (close to) the BEST record in the AL to win the division in two other years.

Doesn't sound like the cakewalk you are making it out to be.

EDIT: just double checked - in '07 the godamn Indians had the best record in the AL. The "weak" division argument is put to rest.

And if Pat Boyle actually mentioned Fisk as a serious name he "heard" as a candidate to replace Guillen and crediblilty he may have had dried up.

Brian26
09-17-2010, 08:21 PM
It doesn't matter who it is. The first time he doesn't win the division, we'll start hearing "somebody has to be held accountable for this. He has to go. Anything would be better. He's obviously lost the team."

How about the 4th or 5th time he doesn't win the division?

Brian26
09-17-2010, 08:23 PM
I don't find Pat Boyle to be a credible source. Yeah, Ozzie might not be back, but I don't think Boyle has any inside info.

There are tons of MLB "insiders" (Heyman, Gammons, Stark, etc) that I would trust over Boyle.

Pat Boyle is no more of a credible source than most of the people posting here. In fact, he probably lurks here.

russ99
09-17-2010, 08:38 PM
Pat Boyle is no more of a credible source than most of the people posting here. In fact, he probably lurks here.

In Pat Boyle's defense, I listened to that podcast today (I'm a regular listener, but behind about a week) and he said "He heard rumblings", which doesn't seem the sure thing some are making it out to be.

SI1020
09-17-2010, 09:55 PM
The 2006 Cardinals were roided out of their mind? :scratch: I don't believe the late 80s A's were roided out of their minds either. Maybe I'm stupid and naive but I don't believe the steroid thing reached a real critical mass in MLB until after the 94 strike. I'm not sure McGwire was heavily into it until that time period. Canseco, I don't know. He may have been one of the trailblazers.

SI1020
09-17-2010, 10:07 PM
You act like 5 years ago is so long ago.

This is a fan base that suffered through an 88 year drought. I'll gladly take 5 over 88 any day. This is the kind of post that really depresses me. It reinforces my opinion that we as a fan base really do have low expectations. 1918-2010 equals 93 baseball seasons in which 92 World Series will have been played, and our White Sox have won exactly 1 of them. Wow that's impressive. Since KW, Ozzie and JR gave us that 1 we have to bow at their altar forever. No thanks. The team and the organization need a major overhaul. If the regime in place can do it, more power to them. If not, get some new blood in there that can.

Tragg
09-17-2010, 10:09 PM
I don't see it but I'm not in Chicago.
Whichever one of these characters is responsible for these crummy trades for veterans is the one who should go.

Nelfox02
09-17-2010, 10:26 PM
This is the kind of post that really depresses me. It reinforces my opinion that we as a fan base really do have low expectations.


I agree that having low expectations sucks, but sometimes it is hard having high expectations being a fan of this team.

SI1020
09-17-2010, 10:40 PM
I agree that having low expectations sucks, but sometimes it is hard having high expectations being a fan of this team. It's just flat out hard period being a fan of this team.

palehozenychicty
09-18-2010, 10:55 AM
KW has been the Sox GM 10 years. They made the playoffs 2 times. There are 5 teams in the AL Central plus the possibility of wild card. 14 AL teams, 3 playoff spots. That's a little better than 1 out of 5. You may like all he brings to the table but the results, especially considering the advantages he's had over the other AL Central teams financially during his tenure are average save for the World Series. Now if a ball doesn't roll through Tony Graffinino's legs and El Duque, a guy KW didn't even want on the postseason roster doesn't do an escape act in Boston, a couple of situations KW really had nothing to do with, maybe the Sox don't get out of round one. But he did his job, which IMO is getting his team the ability to make the playoffs. What happens during the playoffs has nothing to do with the GM.

Ozzie has been here 7 years. I believe Manuel was here 7 year and won 86 his final season before he was launched. I don't think Ozzie will get launched, I suppose he may if KW really can't stand him, but it may be time for him to leave and he may know that better than anyone else.

This is the one thing that frustrates many who follow this team. Prior to the opening of Target Center, we had an opportunity to really take over this division over the last five years and have not done that. Now I'm not so sure with the Twins able to generate revenue. The Sox may have to change their modus operandi.

As for Ozzie, I love him, and he loves this franchise. We all know that. I think he's improved as a manager over the years. The players like him. But who knows what will happen this offseason? After a very inconsistent year and the reality show, with the sons' tweets, and the Marlins looking for a manager, this could be his perfect storm to move. I have no problem with him staying, but we'll see.

SI1020
09-18-2010, 12:54 PM
I think he's improved as a manager over the years. The players like him. But who knows what will happen this offseason? After a very inconsistent year and the reality show, with the sons' tweets, and the Marlins looking for a manager, this could be his perfect storm to move. I have no problem with him staying, but we'll see. I disagree. I think he has regressed as a manager.

tstrike2000
09-18-2010, 01:31 PM
I disagree. I think he has regressed as a manager.

We all have dissenting opinions about the management. After 10+ years, notwithstanding '01, it would really be nice to see the Sox put together a nice roll in August and September. Fortunately, we had a big enough lead in '05 to withstand losing those months, otherwise it's really a tired song and dance.

WhiteSox5187
09-18-2010, 02:43 PM
We all have dissenting opinions about the management. After 10+ years, notwithstanding '01, it would really be nice to see the Sox put together a nice roll in August and September. Fortunately, we had a big enough lead in '05 to withstand losing those months, otherwise it's really a tired song and dance.

We only had one losing month that season and that was August, September we played .586 baseball, the problem was that Cleveland played out of their mind those two months playing both at a .700 clip.

soxfanreggie
09-18-2010, 02:47 PM
I think that Fisk's stint as a volunteer assistant at ISU (for a season) will be his only coaching gig. If Ozzie does go, I hope we have a good option to replace him. I don't think they'd look internal at Buddy Bell with his record (even with years at KC being rough), but maybe they'd look at another ex ALC manager - Eric Wedge.

Other candidates could be Tim Wallach - currently Dodgers AAA skipper, with Mattingly named to replace Torre, he could be willing to leave and Joey Cora. The other names you hear for openings: Willie Randolph, Bobby Valentiene, etc. just don't seem to fit. If somehow Fredi Gonzalez doesn't end up in Atlanta, I would like to bring him in for an interview.

If Cora would get the nod, I could see him keeping Cooper. That is if Ozzie gets canned and Joey doesn't end up in a place like Seattle or Milwaukee.

Mohoney
09-22-2010, 05:55 PM
Sure, as soon as LaRussa wins anything with a team that's not roided out of its mind.

Thank you for posting this. I don't want that enabler anywhere near this franchise.

PatK
09-23-2010, 02:46 PM
The 2006 Cardinals were roided out of their mind? :scratch:

They sure were.

Have you ever seen Dave Eckstein? The guy just screams "steroid abuser".

downstairs
09-23-2010, 03:58 PM
I've been a fan of the Sox since 1981. This is by far our best management team- from owner down to manager- in that time. Maybe ever.

We're consistently in the hunt, and very very few years are we "out of it in July".

Lots of second place and close third place finishes is a bit heartbreaking, but come on... remember the '80s?

CubsfansareDRUNK
09-24-2010, 12:08 AM
Psh, I'll take LaRussa.

WhiteSoxOnly
09-24-2010, 12:25 AM
Psh, I'll take LaRussa.

This,especially after the Guillen Family soap opera bull****.Enough
already.If Ozzie leaves,go after this guy.

Bobby Thigpen
09-24-2010, 03:14 PM
This,especially after the Guillen Family soap opera bull****.Enough
already.If Ozzie leaves,go after this guy.
Ya.

I mean, LaRussa's never had any controversy...

dickallen15
09-24-2010, 04:12 PM
I've been a fan of the Sox since 1981. This is by far our best management team- from owner down to manager- in that time. Maybe ever.

We're consistently in the hunt, and very very few years are we "out of it in July".

Lots of second place and close third place finishes is a bit heartbreaking, but come on... remember the '80s?


Its an entirely different situation. The White Sox for 4 or 5 years in a row had the lowest payroll in baseball. How do you think this current management would fare under that circumstance?

TheOldRoman
09-24-2010, 04:26 PM
Its an entirely different situation. The White Sox for 4 or 5 years in a row had the lowest payroll in baseball. How do you think this current management would fare under that circumstance?Are you actually acknowledging the Sox spend money?:o: Aren't you going to claim once again that the team slashed payroll before last season more than any team other than the Padres (not true), that a payroll slash is coming next year or that they could spend so much more but always have to assure a profit?

Dub25
09-26-2010, 11:27 PM
Ya.

I mean, LaRussa's never had any controversy...

You mean falling asleep drunk at a stop light is not controversy???