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voodoochile
09-12-2010, 11:38 PM
You know he's quietly putting together a solid season for the number of AB he's had. Yeah, his BA still is bad, but his OPS is over .800 again and he's got 19 HR in ~310 PA.

Maybe he's strictly a platoon player offensively now, but he's still got some value and is still clearly a plus defender.

Noneck
09-12-2010, 11:41 PM
I would like to see him again for a 1yr deal on the cheap.

hi im skot
09-12-2010, 11:42 PM
I was a pretty harsh critic of Jones going into the season, but I've enjoyed having him on the team this year. If he wants to come back with a platoon/bench role, I'd love to see him back in Chicago.

esbrechtel
09-12-2010, 11:43 PM
I was a pretty harsh critic of Jones going into the season, but I've enjoyed having him on the team this year. If he wants to come back with a platoon/bench role, I'd love to see him back in Chicago.
I feel the same way.

twinsuck
09-12-2010, 11:45 PM
meh, I wouldn't have a problem with signing him on the cheap for next year as long as he's not a everyday player.

voodoochile
09-12-2010, 11:47 PM
I was a pretty harsh critic of Jones going into the season, but I've enjoyed having him on the team this year. If he wants to come back with a platoon/bench role, I'd love to see him back in Chicago.

Him and Teahen could split time at the DH role next year. That wouldn't suck completely.

hi im skot
09-12-2010, 11:51 PM
Him and Teahen could split time at the DH role next year. That wouldn't suck completely.

Having Teahen on the roster would suck in every way, shape and form.

voodoochile
09-12-2010, 11:58 PM
Having Teahen on the roster would suck in every way, shape and form.

Well they maybe stuck with hims so maybe he can backup 1B and spend some time as LH DH option though his three year splits against RHP are only .746 OPS so maybe not. Andrew could be the DH against LHP and back up OF slots - or give Rios/TCQ a day off to DH and play their position.

No it's not ideal, but it's better than it was this year and maybe the option available if they want to keep PK.

VMSNS
09-12-2010, 11:58 PM
Andruw has hit 19 HR and has almost 50 RBIs, not to mention he plays great defense. Not bad for only $500K.

There was an article on the White Sox homepage not to long ago about Andruw. He said he wanted to be back with the White Sox for next season and that he really likes it here. He wants to be an everyday player, and thinks his batting average will get much higher if he gets regular ABs everyday. However, he said he understands his role on this years club and is glad to fill it.

I wouldn't mind signing him to another 1-year deal for cheap. He seems like a great teammate and he always looks like he's having fun out there. Honestly, the team needs more competitive and assertive personalities like Andruw, Peavy, and Beckham. My only issue with Jones is that he seems to want to hit a HR on every pitch. I think if he just backed off and tweaked his approach a little bit, he could start hitting for a respectable average. But, the guy wants to be an impact player and he wants to make a difference on the team, so you can't really blame him, I guess.

doublem23
09-13-2010, 12:05 AM
Please make Andruw Jones go away

delben91
09-13-2010, 12:08 AM
Please make Andruw Jones go away

But then who will be 2011's Mark Kotsay? :dunno:

Rdy2PlayBall
09-13-2010, 12:10 AM
I know every player wants to be an every day player, but I can honestly imagine him coming back to Chicago to be a 4th outfielder/pinch hitter. He's actually been pretty productive and can be a great power threat off the bench. I hope he comes back.

CWSpalehoseCWS
09-13-2010, 12:35 AM
But then who will be 2011's Mark Kotsay? :dunno:
Mark Kotsay himself. My God, how horrible that would be.

Dibbs
09-13-2010, 12:38 AM
I still can't figure out how Kotsay got so many more ABs than Jones in the DH spot this year. Jones would have hit at least 35+ HRs this year. Ozzie is a moron.

The more I think of it, I can't believe Kotsay actually was a DH more than one or two times all year. That is beyond crazy. The guy can't hit! Even crazier, people defend Ozzie on it.

hi im skot
09-13-2010, 12:46 AM
I still can't figure out how Kotsay got so many more ABs than Jones in the DH spot this year. Jones would have hit at least 35+ HRs this year. Ozzie is a moron.

The more I think of it, I can't believe Kotsay actually was a DH more than one or two times all year. That is beyond crazy. The guy can't hit! Even crazier, people defend Ozzie on it.

I don't consider myself a Crazy Ozzie Defender, but Mark Kotsay hits left handed, while Jones hits from the right side. I think that's got a lot to do with it.

Dibbs
09-13-2010, 12:50 AM
I don't consider myself a Crazy Ozzie Defender, but Mark Kotsay hits left handed, while Jones hits from the right side. I think that's got a lot to do with it.

Kotsay bats left handed, he never hits.

LoveYourSuit
09-13-2010, 12:51 AM
Him and Teahen could split time at the DH role next year. That wouldn't suck completely.

Not this again, please no.

If I hear the word platoon for any position in the line up next year I will seriously vomit.

1989
09-13-2010, 01:02 AM
Him and Teahen could split time at the DH role next year. That wouldn't suck completely.

I'm completely fine with this so long as it saves us the money to sign Adrian Beltre for 3B, an elite glove with a plus bat.

Foulke You
09-13-2010, 01:29 AM
I'm completely fine with this so long as it saves us the money to sign Adrian Beltre for 3B, an elite glove with a plus bat.
Brandon Inge would fit that bill pretty well too and he is entering free agency. He might be a bit cheaper than Beltre as well.

doublem23
09-13-2010, 01:32 AM
Brandon Inge would fit that bill pretty well too and he is entering free agency. He might be a bit cheaper than Beltre as well.

Brandon Inge is awful at baseball. I'd rather give 3B to Morel.

Foulke You
09-13-2010, 01:32 AM
I still can't figure out how Kotsay got so many more ABs than Jones in the DH spot this year. Jones would have hit at least 35+ HRs this year. Ozzie is a moron.

The more I think of it, I can't believe Kotsay actually was a DH more than one or two times all year. That is beyond crazy. The guy can't hit! Even crazier, people defend Ozzie on it.
I've also wondered what Andruw's production would have been if he was playing every day. You would have to think 30HR 85RBI would have been likely. I've also wondered if his sporadic play caused his swing to get out of whack for a periods of time. This is a guy who was used to playing every day. Some guys are "timing" guys who need the PT to refine their swings. He is worth bringing back for his outfield defense alone.

1989
09-13-2010, 01:35 AM
Brandon Inge would fit that bill pretty well too and he is entering free agency. He might be a bit cheaper than Beltre as well.

If it comes down between Beltre and Inge, I don't care how much money it takes, get Beltre.

Foulke You
09-13-2010, 01:38 AM
Brandon Inge is awful at baseball. I'd rather give 3B to Morel.
Inge is a poor man's Beltre. He has some pop in his bat but more importantly plays great defense at 3B. He is also very versatile and can play just about anywhere on the diamond. The high strikeout total is a downer and the fact that he is injury prone hurts his stock a bit. Other than that, I think he would be a good value pick up for 3B. Just my .02

LoveYourSuit
09-13-2010, 01:39 AM
If it comes down between Beltre and Inge, I don't care how much money it takes, get Beltre.


Get Beltre and Dunn and dump Paulie and others.

Me, a very happy White Sox fan.

I don't think we have the $$$ to put this payroll in the $120 million range.

But if we could:

Pierre LF
Beckham 2B
Rios CF
Dunn DH
Beltre 3B
Quentin RF
Viciedo 1B
Ramirez SS
AJ C

hi im skot
09-13-2010, 01:54 AM
Kotsay bats left handed, he never hits.

http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/storage/4/1402509/rimshot.gif

doublem23
09-13-2010, 01:58 AM
Inge is a poor man's Beltre. He has some pop in his bat but more importantly plays great defense at 3B. He is also very versatile and can play just about anywhere on the diamond. The high strikeout total is a downer and the fact that he is injury prone hurts his stock a bit. Other than that, I think he would be a good value pick up for 3B. Just my .02

I gotta disagree man, Inge's career OPS+ is 85. 85! FWIW, Gordon Beckham's OPS+ this season is 86.

Don't confuse his longevity with quality, it's actually rather amazing that he's managed to stick around Detroit this long. He's ridden an OK 2004 season and the 2006 season when he hit 27 HR into a 10-year career. He will be 34 in May and is on the decline, a decline, IMO, that will be sharp and painful.

Rdy2PlayBall
09-13-2010, 02:01 AM
If it comes down between Beltre and Inge, I don't care how much money it takes, get Beltre.If the Sox can get Beltre and resign everybody of importance (including Manny), I would reserve my playoff tickets opening day. Even if they just get a decent DH, I would do the same. The Sox have a great core, and are probably only a couple players away from going up to the next level. Is Beltre even in the Sox radar though?

Foulke You
09-13-2010, 02:27 AM
I gotta disagree man, Inge's career OPS+ is 85. 85! FWIW, Gordon Beckham's OPS+ this season is 86.

Don't confuse his longevity with quality, it's actually rather amazing that he's managed to stick around Detroit this long. He's ridden an OK 2004 season and the 2006 season when he hit 27 HR into a 10-year career. He will be 34 in May and is on the decline, a decline, IMO, that will be sharp and painful.
I wouldn't sign him long term given his age but I think he is a solid stop gap if the price is right. As pleasant a surprise as Omar has been this year for us, Inge's 2010 run production smokes Omar's. This Sox lineup needs a dose of extra base hit and run production. Inge has 26 doubles, 11 HRs, and 63 RBI compared to Omar's 10 doubles, 2 HRs, and 28 RBI and would give you no discernable downgrade in defense. In fact, Inge has a stronger arm than Omar right now. He is no Beltre, but I look at Inge as a realistic upgrade from the Teahen/Omar duo we have right now.

Another thing to consider is that Comerica is not very favorable to right handed power. Brandon has been around long enough to have played when the left center field sign read 390FT in the Grand Canyon of Comerica. He *could* get a slight bump in power production at The Cell.

LITTLE NELL
09-13-2010, 06:09 AM
Having Teahen on the roster would suck in every way, shape and form.

Don't want to hijack the thread but who is going to take Teabag off our hands.

Frater Perdurabo
09-13-2010, 07:29 AM
Him and Teahen could split time at the DH role next year. That wouldn't suck completely.

It's too bad we couldn't have Thome and Jones "platoon" this year.

doublem23
09-13-2010, 08:11 AM
I wouldn't sign him long term given his age but I think he is a solid stop gap if the price is right. As pleasant a surprise as Omar has been this year for us, Inge's 2010 run production smokes Omar's. This Sox lineup needs a dose of extra base hit and run production. Inge has 26 doubles, 11 HRs, and 63 RBI compared to Omar's 10 doubles, 2 HRs, and 28 RBI and would give you no discernable downgrade in defense. In fact, Inge has a stronger arm than Omar right now. He is no Beltre, but I look at Inge as a realistic upgrade from the Teahen/Omar duo we have right now.

Another thing to consider is that Comerica is not very favorable to right handed power. Brandon has been around long enough to have played when the left center field sign read 390FT in the Grand Canyon of Comerica. He *could* get a slight bump in power production at The Cell.

I personally think in Morel, the Sox have a guy who can essentially replicate Inge's production for probably a fraction of the cost, and considering the numerous other holes that need to be filled in, I'm not interested in seeing Inge signed here. If the Sox want to make a splash at 3B, that's cool, but bringing in another aging, mediocre vet and hoping to catch lightning in a bottle again doesn't make any sense to me.

SCCWS
09-13-2010, 08:29 AM
If it comes down between Beltre and Inge, I don't care how much money it takes, get Beltre.

Beltre has had a great year. But he is not leaving Boston. He is in love w the Green Monster. We need to find another realistic 3rd base target.

asindc
09-13-2010, 09:52 AM
I wouldn't sign him long term given his age but I think he is a solid stop gap if the price is right. As pleasant a surprise as Omar has been this year for us, Inge's 2010 run production smokes Omar's. This Sox lineup needs a dose of extra base hit and run production. Inge has 26 doubles, 11 HRs, and 63 RBI compared to Omar's 10 doubles, 2 HRs, and 28 RBI and would give you no discernable downgrade in defense. In fact, Inge has a stronger arm than Omar right now. He is no Beltre, but I look at Inge as a realistic upgrade from the Teahen/Omar duo we have right now.

Another thing to consider is that Comerica is not very favorable to right handed power. Brandon has been around long enough to have played when the left center field sign read 390FT in the Grand Canyon of Comerica. He *could* get a slight bump in power production at The Cell.

You might want to talk to some Detroit fans about Inge's defense before concluding that it would come close to what Omar has given us this year. Inge has a chronically-bad back which severely limits his range. He fields the ball rather cleanly for the most part, but even as a stop-gap we would be taking step back defensively from Omar or Morel. Inge would have the potential to be next year's Kotsay if KW signed him.

As for Andruw, I think he has earned his money, despite his HR-or-nothing batting approach. He is easily our 2nd-best defensive OF, and if he got 450 ABs next year, I would expect 25-HR, 80-RBI performance from him. How that would translate to OPS, I don't know, but those numbers represent offensive production, no matter what your stance is on statistics.

asindc
09-13-2010, 09:54 AM
Beltre has had a great year. But he is not leaving Boston. He is in love w the Green Monster. We need to find another realistic 3rd base target.

That's not a sure thing. The talk around Boston since the beginning of this year is that they are seriously considering reducing payroll for the first time in years. The word is that they want to stop playing high-priced FA musical chairs.

Chez
09-13-2010, 09:56 AM
Jones as a fourth outfielder makes sense. Any other role in 2011 does not.

psyclonis
09-13-2010, 11:39 AM
what's with the Andruw hate? I'd sign him to a 6M/2 extension as the full time RF...
compared to Teahen's salary.. that's a bargain.

Foulke You
09-13-2010, 11:54 AM
I personally think in Morel, the Sox have a guy who can essentially replicate Inge's production for probably a fraction of the cost, and considering the numerous other holes that need to be filled in, I'm not interested in seeing Inge signed here. If the Sox want to make a splash at 3B, that's cool, but bringing in another aging, mediocre vet and hoping to catch lightning in a bottle again doesn't make any sense to me.
I like what I've seen from Morel, but I guess I normally am a bit skeptical of White Sox "can't miss" prospects because we've seen so many fail. Josh Fields was supposed to be a no brainer at 3B a couple years ago too. It's asking a lot to hand over the keys to the starting 3B job to a guy with a couple weeks of MLB experience and expect the kind of Major League production that Inge could give you. I guess I wouldn't be horrified at the prospect of starting Morel at 3B next year because he seems to have the tools, but I certainly would be nervous about it. In the end, I think the Sox will be going with a Morel/Vizquel combo next year. With Teahen's salary already on the books for next year, I don't see the Sox making any type of major 3B free agent signing.

Foulke You
09-13-2010, 11:56 AM
You might want to talk to some Detroit fans about Inge's defense before concluding that it would come close to what Omar has given us this year. Inge has a chronically-bad back which severely limits his range. He fields the ball rather cleanly for the most part, but even as a stop-gap we would be taking step back defensively from Omar or Morel. Inge would have the potential to be next year's Kotsay if KW signed him.
The Brandon Inge I saw last week didn't look like he had any mobility or range issues whatsoever. He made at least 4 spectacular plays look easy in that series alone taking what looked like sure infield hits away from Sox hitters. He might not have Vizquel's soft hands but his arm is better and I believe his range is at least comparable.

MtGrnwdSoxFan
09-13-2010, 12:01 PM
I like what I've seen from Morel, but I guess I normally am a bit skeptical of White Sox "can't miss" prospects because we've seen so many fail. Josh Fields was supposed to be a no brainer at 3B a couple years ago too. It's asking a lot to hand over the keys to the starting 3B job to a guy with a couple weeks of MLB experience and expect the kind of Major League production that Inge could give you. I guess I wouldn't be horrified at the prospect of starting Morel at 3B next year because he seems to have the tools, but I certainly would be nervous about it. In the end, I think the Sox will be going with a Morel/Vizquel combo next year. With Teahen's salary already on the books for next year, I don't see the Sox making any type of major 3B free agent signing.

Has Vizquel given any indication as to whether he's retiring or not next year? If he does decide to retire and with Teahen's apparent Iron Glove, I would think that Morel and Teahen end up platooning, with Morel starting out as a late-inning defensive replacement...hopefully Morel can steal the job during the season, or even better, in Spring Training.

:chunks:

^ me thinking about Teahen playing 3B for the next two years

Foulke You
09-13-2010, 12:23 PM
Has Vizquel given any indication as to whether he's retiring or not next year? If he does decide to retire and with Teahen's apparent Iron Glove, I would think that Morel and Teahen end up platooning, with Morel starting out as a late-inning defensive replacement...hopefully Morel can steal the job during the season, or even better, in Spring Training.

:chunks:

^ me thinking about Teahen playing 3B for the next two years
When Omar was in the reserve role early this season, he was talking about retiring but I believe later in the season after he got to start more, he was hinting that he would come back. As good as Omar has played for us this year, I would still be a bit uncomfortable with him starting every day at 3B next year. Omar is going to be 44 years old in April of 2011. I'd be open to him sharing time with Morel or someone else, but I think it would be a mistake to expect Omar to play in 120-130 games next year. Father Time has to catch up with him sooner or later.

asindc
09-13-2010, 12:58 PM
The Brandon Inge I saw last week didn't look like he had any mobility or range issues whatsoever. He made at least 4 spectacular plays look easy in that series alone taking what looked like sure infield hits away from Sox hitters. He might not have Vizquel's soft hands but his arm is better and I believe his range is at least comparable.

I'm mostly just passing on what many Detroit fans have told me the past 2-3 seasons about his defense and overall play. In fact, they were hoping Cabrera could actually play 3B so Inge would not have to.

tacosalbarojas
09-13-2010, 01:16 PM
I'm mostly just passing on what many Detroit fans have told me the past 2-3 seasons about his defense and overall play. In fact, they were hoping Cabrera could actually play 3B so Inge would not have to.
I see what foulke sees when he plays against us; maybe he just gets up for our games? Wouldn't be the first one...lol.

KMcMahon817
09-13-2010, 02:30 PM
You know he's quietly putting together a solid season for the number of AB he's had. Yeah, his BA still is bad, but his OPS is over .800 again and he's got 19 HR in ~310 PA.

Maybe he's strictly a platoon player offensively now, but he's still got some value and is still clearly a plus defender.


Voodoo,

I remember a discussion we had in maybe mid Mayish about Andruw. He was hot, still hitting at or above .300 and you were suggesting that he would command a large contract (somewhere in the range of 10-12 mill per year for 3 or 4 season) and that he was worth it. Well, it sure is interesting looking back on that now. Andruw, or Mandruw as I like to call him, has had quite a solid year. He plays a great D and is a great power bat coming off the bench. I also love the way he loves to play the game. The man is always smiling, and to me, that's refreshing. When you play a game for a living, you should have fun, and Andruw definitely does.

With that said, I hope he is back on the Sox next year. I think he should work a bit on 1B this off season just so that Oz can use him in a few more situations. But, he definitely won't be getting that big pay day we were discussing earlier in the season. But I could see a 1.5-2 million dollar contract, with a few incentives, and an option for 2012.

WhiteSox5187
09-13-2010, 03:41 PM
The Brandon Inge I saw last week didn't look like he had any mobility or range issues whatsoever. He made at least 4 spectacular plays look easy in that series alone taking what looked like sure infield hits away from Sox hitters. He might not have Vizquel's soft hands but his arm is better and I believe his range is at least comparable.

The problem with Inge is the fact that his knees are about shot. There was a period of time where he was a very good defensive third baseman with some pop in his bat in a very pitcher friendly park. But he keeps having knee problems and I think he is about down.

When Omar was in the reserve role early this season, he was talking about retiring but I believe later in the season after he got to start more, he was hinting that he would come back. As good as Omar has played for us this year, I would still be a bit uncomfortable with him starting every day at 3B next year. Omar is going to be 44 years old in April of 2011. I'd be open to him sharing time with Morel or someone else, but I think it would be a mistake to expect Omar to play in 120-130 games next year. Father Time has to catch up with him sooner or later.

I have no problem if Omar (or Jones for that matter) are back on the team next year, but if the Sox are planning on the same production from Omar they got out of him this year then they're nuts. My two cents is that Omar has a bit left in the tank and can still throw some leather and more importantly can teach guys how to be good fielders, but I don't think he can be an effective starter any more.

fram40
09-13-2010, 04:56 PM
I see what foulke sees when he plays against us; maybe he just gets up for our games? Wouldn't be the first one...lol.

The Inge that plays against the White Sox seems to be a superstar, yet Tiger fans do not like the guy.

bunty_doghunter
09-13-2010, 06:01 PM
We need to find another realistic 3rd base target.
Nick Punto! :tongue:

MtGrnwdSoxFan
09-13-2010, 06:32 PM
Nick Punto! :tongue:

This post is the reason why we can't have nice things around here.

Foulke You
09-13-2010, 07:05 PM
I have no problem if Omar (or Jones for that matter) are back on the team next year, but if the Sox are planning on the same production from Omar they got out of him this year then they're nuts. My two cents is that Omar has a bit left in the tank and can still throw some leather and more importantly can teach guys how to be good fielders, but I don't think he can be an effective starter any more.
That is pretty much how I feel about Omar coming back too. I'd like to have him, but the Sox shouldn't plan on having the same production out of him next year. Let him be a role player like we originally planned. I just think it would be a mistake to count on a 44 year old as your every day starter.

Tragg
09-13-2010, 08:39 PM
Him and Teahen could split time at the DH role next year. That wouldn't suck completely.
What about Quentin?

I don't have a problem bringing Jones back in the right role.

Morel might be able to handle 3b.

We need an elite right fielder!

Carolina Kenny
09-13-2010, 09:52 PM
You know he's quietly putting together a solid season for the number of AB he's had. Yeah, his BA still is bad, but his OPS is over .800 again and he's got 19 HR in ~310 PA.

Maybe he's strictly a platoon player offensively now, but he's still got some value and is still clearly a plus defender.

As usual you are right on. I was thinking the same thing. As a platoon and against certain pitching match ups, I like me some Jones.

He is not Gold Glove caliber anymore, but he is decent enough, and as a vetern fourth outfielder, he still has value.

Taliesinrk
09-14-2010, 05:50 PM
I would guess that there's a team out there that would offer Jones the opportunity to compete for a starting job next season. He may not want to play for that team, but if he wanted to be an everyday player, I think he's shown this year that he's still got it (and can play the field). I can't see (and hope that) the Sox won't offer that to him, and because of this, I'm not sure he's a fit for next season.

russ99
09-14-2010, 06:09 PM
I still can't figure out how Kotsay got so many more ABs than Jones in the DH spot this year. Jones would have hit at least 35+ HRs this year. Ozzie is a moron.

The more I think of it, I can't believe Kotsay actually was a DH more than one or two times all year. That is beyond crazy. The guy can't hit! Even crazier, people defend Ozzie on it.

Simple. Kotsay's a lefty, and Jones had a hideous May and June, much more so than the rest of the team. And yes, relying on lefthanders to break up the lineup and going with matchups to the letter is a weakness that Ozzie continues to stick to.

I was going to call this out in the Thome thread, but us getting Jones and the Twins getting Thome were the exact same move at the time. Inexpensive low-risk move that a player could be better than he showed last year. They got lucky, we didn't.

KMcMahon817
09-14-2010, 06:58 PM
Simple. Kotsay's a lefty, and Jones had a hideous May and June, much more so than the rest of the team. And yes, relying on lefthanders to break up the lineup and going with matchups to the letter is a weakness that Ozzie continues to stick to.

I was going to call this out in the Thome thread, but us getting Jones and the Twins getting Thome were the exact same move at the time. Inexpensive low-risk move that a player could be better than he showed last year. They got lucky, we didn't.

:rolleyes:Yeah, because 23 HRs and 54 RBI is SOOOOOO much better than 19 HRs and 46 RBI. Give me a break.

This whole Thome thing is a joke. Andruw has been a very similar player.

WhiteSox5187
09-14-2010, 07:16 PM
Simple. Kotsay's a lefty, and Jones had a hideous May and June, much more so than the rest of the team. And yes, relying on lefthanders to break up the lineup and going with matchups to the letter is a weakness that Ozzie continues to stick to.

I was going to call this out in the Thome thread, but us getting Jones and the Twins getting Thome were the exact same move at the time. Inexpensive low-risk move that a player could be better than he showed last year. They got lucky, we didn't.

No it's not, Jones was brought in not just to be a DH but to be a part time outfielder which was something Thome couldn't do.

JB98
09-14-2010, 07:18 PM
:rolleyes:Yeah, because 23 HRs and 54 RBI is SOOOOOO much better than 19 HRs and 46 RBI. Give me a break.

This whole Thome thing is a joke. Andruw has been a very similar player.

I can't agree with that. Thome's OPS is 1.040. Andruw's is .824.

Thome has hit better than Jones this year. The main benefit to having Jones on the roster is his ability to play all three outfield positions. Jones still has power, but he's not a particularly good hitter anymore.

I don't think Thome and Jones are similar players at all.

voodoochile
09-14-2010, 07:38 PM
I can't agree with that. Thome's OPS is 1.040. Andruw's is .824.

Thome has hit better than Jones this year. The main benefit to having Jones on the roster is his ability to play all three outfield positions. Jones still has power, but he's not a particularly good hitter anymore.

I don't think Thome and Jones are similar players at all.

Well how much more benefit from Thome would the Sox actually have received - and I'm talking in a big picture way now.

Thome has 44 R, 53RBI and 23 HR - net Runs Created = 74 in 306 PA and no defensive contributions at all.

Jones has 41 R, 46 RBI and 19 HR - net Runs Created = 68 in 312 PA with a fair amount of time spelling people in the OF.

Some of Thome's offensive contributions are mitigated by his lack of speed (though apparently he has 2 triples this year :o: ). Obviously Thome has a much better slash line but hasn't produced that many more runs for the Twinkies this season and again, he's made no defensive contributions at all.

The Sox needed a power LHH more than they need another RH slugger this year so yes from that perspective, Thome would have added an element that has been missing from the Sox this year and if the Sox were to bring him back and let him platoon with Jones next year at the DH, they might indeed have the best of both worlds, but at the moment the difference between them isn't that measurable in terms of outcome.

Domeshot17
09-14-2010, 07:47 PM
Well how much more benefit from Thome would the Sox actually have received - and I'm talking in a big picture way now.

Thome has 44 R, 53RBI and 23 HR - net Runs Created = 74 in 306 PA and no defensive contributions at all.

Jones has 41 R, 46 RBI and 19 HR - net Runs Created = 68 in 312 PA with a fair amount of time spelling people in the OF.

Some of Thome's offensive contributions are mitigated by his lack of speed (though apparently he has 2 triples this year :o: ). Obviously Thome has a much better slash line but hasn't produced that many more runs for the Twinkies this season and again, he's made no defensive contributions at all.

The Sox needed a power LHH more than they need another RH slugger this year so yes from that perspective, Thome would have added an element that has been missing from the Sox this year and if the Sox were to bring him back and let him platoon with Jones next year at the DH, they might indeed have the best of both worlds, but at the moment the difference between them isn't that measurable in terms of outcome.

The truth is, had we went with Thome and Andruw, we could be looking at a platoon that put up over 40 homers, over 100 rbis and 100 runs. Andruw wasn't the WRONG END of this platoon.

KMcMahon817
09-14-2010, 08:01 PM
Well how much more benefit from Thome would the Sox actually have received - and I'm talking in a big picture way now.

Thome has 44 R, 53RBI and 23 HR - net Runs Created = 74 in 306 PA and no defensive contributions at all.

Jones has 41 R, 46 RBI and 19 HR - net Runs Created = 68 in 312 PA with a fair amount of time spelling people in the OF.

Some of Thome's offensive contributions are mitigated by his lack of speed (though apparently he has 2 triples this year :o: ). Obviously Thome has a much better slash line but hasn't produced that many more runs for the Twinkies this season and again, he's made no defensive contributions at all.

The Sox needed a power LHH more than they need another RH slugger this year so yes from that perspective, Thome would have added an element that has been missing from the Sox this year and if the Sox were to bring him back and let him platoon with Jones next year at the DH, they might indeed have the best of both worlds, but at the moment the difference between them isn't that measurable in terms of outcome.

That's pretty much exactly what I meant, thank you. They really have been comparable, and if someone denies that, they are doing so just out of spite for whatever reason.

KMcMahon817
09-14-2010, 08:07 PM
I can't agree with that. Thome's OPS is 1.040. Andruw's is .824.

Thome has hit better than Jones this year. The main benefit to having Jones on the roster is his ability to play all three outfield positions. Jones still has power, but he's not a particularly good hitter anymore.

I don't think Thome and Jones are similar players at all.

Read Voodoo's post. He said it much prettier than I did.

Frater Perdurabo
09-14-2010, 08:11 PM
The truth is, had we went with Thome and Andruw, we could be looking at a platoon that put up over 40 homers, over 100 rbis and 100 runs. Andruw wasn't the WRONG END of this platoon.

Exactly. Jones and Thome platooning in the six-hole in the lineup really would have made our offense click.

Domeshot17
09-14-2010, 08:13 PM
That's pretty much exactly what I meant, thank you. They really have been comparable, and if someone denies that, they are doing so just out of spite for whatever reason.

Not entirely, You would have to account for how many runners thome moved from first to third on his extra hits, protection in the lineup, and when the hits came. Andruw Jones has earned his 500K or whatever this season, but he hasn't made anyone in this lineup or on this team better. Thome has. Thome has basically allowed the twins to not miss Morneau. That is massive.

JB98
09-14-2010, 08:16 PM
That's pretty much exactly what I meant, thank you. They really have been comparable, and if someone denies that, they are doing so just out of spite for whatever reason.

Well, I'm not going to bother responding any further then.

I don't have spite for Andruw Jones or anyone else. That's just silly.

KMcMahon817
09-14-2010, 08:38 PM
Well, I'm not going to bother responding any further then.

I don't have spite for Andruw Jones or anyone else. That's just silly.

I didn't mean anything personal JB. Just think the Thome thing is blown out of proportion around here. The guy has hit well and has had some HUGE hits, but I think Andruw Jones helps put alot of that into perspective. Their power numbers are similar. Thome on the SOX probably would have helped, but who knows. It just gets old.

russ99
09-14-2010, 11:14 PM
Exactly. Jones and Thome platooning in the six-hole in the lineup really would have made our offense click.

Yeah, those 150+ Ks and sub .250 batting averages and all the GIDPs would have really energized the lineup. :rolleyes:

But hey, pretty homers are more important than wins.

Frater Perdurabo
09-15-2010, 07:02 AM
Yeah, those 150+ Ks and sub .250 batting averages and all the GIDPs would have really energized the lineup. :rolleyes:

But hey, pretty homers are more important than wins.

Yeah, I hate home runs too. Run production is so overrated. I much prefer Kotsay's popups and GIDPs to accompany the low batting average.