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View Full Version : *Official* 9-10 Morel, Rios, AJ serve up some home cooking, 4-3 win thread


Frater Perdurabo
09-10-2010, 10:35 PM
Nice to win. Discuss it here.

JB98
09-10-2010, 10:35 PM
I turned them off after the sixth and concentrated on work. Now, I see they won. I should do that more often. :D:

vinny
09-10-2010, 10:36 PM
We still got some life! Way to come from behind late!

LongLiveFisk
09-10-2010, 10:36 PM
I kept thinking just get Chen out of there and then anything can happen.

And it did.

Love it!! :bandance: :bandance: :bandance:

MtGrnwdSoxFan
09-10-2010, 10:36 PM
HUGE win!

I'm singing "Come Sale away, come Sale away, come Sale away with meeee....!"

:redneck

Hitmen77
09-10-2010, 10:36 PM
Bench AJ! :redneck


Brent Morel with his 1st major league hit AND HOME RUN!:gulp: Does this guy have a chance to be our starting 3B in 2011?

LongLiveFisk
09-10-2010, 10:36 PM
I turned them off after the sixth and concentrated on work. Now, I see they won. I should do that more often. :D:

I agree. :tongue: :D:

harwar
09-10-2010, 10:37 PM
That was so nerve-wracking .. we're not dead yet ..

Frater Perdurabo
09-10-2010, 10:38 PM
If Sale keeps up the great work, and if Jenks is too expensive and too injury-prone to be offered arbitration and re-signed, why not consider Sale for the closer's role in 2011?

vinny
09-10-2010, 10:38 PM
And Ozzie can have his post-game rant about how we snatched victory from the jaws of Joe West. Awesome.:gulp:

MtGrnwdSoxFan
09-10-2010, 10:38 PM
OK, so JB should always focus on work during games, and we need to send ChiSoxGirl to San Diego somehow...we do those, we'll be playing well into October!

DirtySox
09-10-2010, 10:38 PM
Bench AJ! :redneck


Brent Morel with his 1st major league hit AND HOME RUN!:gulp: Does this guy have a chance to be our starting 3B in 2011?

Yes.

Craig Grebeck
09-10-2010, 10:38 PM
If Sale keeps up the great work, and if Jenks is too expensive and too injury-prone to be offered arbitration and re-signed, why not consider Sale for the closer's role in 2011?
More value as a SP.

soxinem1
09-10-2010, 10:39 PM
Brent Morel with his 1st major league hit AND HOME RUN!:gulp: Does this guy have a chance to be our starting 3B in 2011?

Maybe he should start this year just to prevent Ozzie from putting Teahen there EVER AGAIN!!

thomas35forever
09-10-2010, 10:39 PM
Woo baby, what a win!:bandance:

Don't stop believin', Sox fans! We're not dead yet!:bandance:

Tragg
09-10-2010, 10:39 PM
If Sale keeps up the great work, and if Jenks is too expensive and too injury-prone to be offered arbitration and re-signed, why not consider Sale for the closer's role in 2011?

Because the shelf life is much shorter for a closer than for a starter and first-rate starters are much more valuable.

DirtySox
09-10-2010, 10:40 PM
If Sale keeps up the great work, and if Jenks is too expensive and too injury-prone to be offered arbitration and re-signed, why not consider Sale for the closer's role in 2011?

He's much more valuable as a starter. The Sox said they plan on stretching him out next year. I assume and hope he will be in the minors as Peavy/injury insurance. I think he has a top of the rotation ceiling.

WhiteSox5187
09-10-2010, 10:41 PM
More value as a SP.

I agree, but if he wants to be like David Price was for the Rays in '08, I got no problem with that.

What a great, nerve wracking, tear inducing win. This team might not be that good, but there is no quit in them and that is something that lots of Sox teams of late haven't had.

GoSox2K3
09-10-2010, 10:41 PM
Maybe he should start this year just to prevent Ozzie from putting Teahen there EVER AGAIN!!

Who knows with Ozzie. He might also have Morel ride the pine for the next week after today's big hit.

DickAllen72
09-10-2010, 10:41 PM
Rumors of AJ's demise were greatly exaggerated!

AJ has really been coming on strong later in the season in the heat of a pennant race. That's the mark of a winner and I hope he's back with the Sox next year.

Oh, and screw this umpiring crew and the horse they rode in on.

ChiSoxGal85
09-10-2010, 10:41 PM
Wow. I spent most of this game feeling VERY uncomfortable, between the nonexistent Sox bats and balk calls that SHOULD have be nonexistent.:mad:

AJ continues the hot bat, Morel - first major league HR, great defense by Rios, Putz and Sale continue to come through.

One game at a time, boys...:bandance:

GoSox2K3
09-10-2010, 10:42 PM
Woo baby, what a win!:bandance:

Don't stop believin', Sox fans! We're not dead yet!:bandance:

If this is the start of a 6 game winning streak, then i'll get excited.

voodoochile
09-10-2010, 10:43 PM
So... uh... how was the game thread tonight? :D:

Guess it's safe to post again. Heck of a win and I admit I missed the runs in the 8th while cooking dinner. Maybe I should do more of that too...

5 back, go Sox, Go Toons...

:soxwin:

:)

MtGrnwdSoxFan
09-10-2010, 10:44 PM
Who knows with Ozzie. He might also have Morel ride the pine for the next week after today's big hit.

If Teahen starts tomorrow, I will puke.

If Vizquel starts...well, can't say I disagree with that, since Vizquel is our best defensive infielder.

But if I see Teahen over at third...I will legitimately question Ozzie's sanity.

Tragg
09-10-2010, 10:44 PM
Rumors of AJ's demise were greatly exaggerated!

AJ has really been coming on strong later in the season in the heat of a pennant race. That's the mark of a winner and I hope he's back with the Sox next year.

Oh, and screw this umpiring crew and the horse they rode in on.
He's had some huge doubles in this last week.
He's resign pretty cheap I'd think. I doubt we'll find anyone better.

Frater Perdurabo
09-10-2010, 10:46 PM
More value as a SP.

I agree that long term he would be more valuable as a starter.

However, next year the Sox already have a stout five-man rotation, assuming Peavy is healthy.

Instead of spending 2011 in Birmingham and/or Charlotte, couldn't Sale be the closer for 2011 and then be a starter in 2012?

Would spending a year as a closer at the MLB level hurt his chances long-term of being an effective starting pitcher at the MLB level?

Brian26
09-10-2010, 10:46 PM
Just looking at the replays, Buehrle's first balk looked like a balk. The second one was nowhere near being a balk.

I don't understand how the homeplate umpire could have called either of them. Angel Hernandez should be suspended.

Chez
09-10-2010, 10:48 PM
A very Twins-like victory. Not dead yet!

LongLiveFisk
09-10-2010, 10:48 PM
Just looking at the replays, Buehrle's first balk looked like a balk. The second one was nowhere near being a balk.

I don't understand how the homeplate umpire could have called either of them. Angel Hernandez should be suspended.

Either it's a vendetta or they need training on what constitutes a balk. It's a joke.

harwar
09-10-2010, 10:50 PM
Just looking at the replays, Buehrle's first balk looked like a balk. The second one was nowhere near being a balk.

I don't understand how the homeplate umpire could have called either of them. Angel Hernandez should be suspended.

making Chris take his jewelry off was weird too .. i can't remember the last time i saw that ..

TDog
09-10-2010, 10:50 PM
This umpiring crew seems to not want Buehrle to throw over to first. It not only sends runners to second on balks, but tells the runners on first to get a good lead. It almost cost the White Sox the game. To make matters worse, Pierre was picked off for the White Sox.

Manny Ramirez cost the White Sox a run in the second by not advancing Konerko from second base after the leadoff double. It doesn't matter who you are. In a scoreless game with a runner on second and none out, your job is to get him over to third if you don't get him in. For the second time in two wins (but sadly, five games) the winning run was scored late by a pinch runner running for Manny Ramirez, so there is that.

Sale doesn't inspire my confidence as a closer because he looks so wild. But at least finishing games doesn't seem to unnerve him.

The White Sox obviously haven't given up. The Royals shouldn't have pitched around Manny Ramirez to get to Pierzynski, who is about as hot a hitter as the White Sox have, but they did, and they didn't get to bring out their closer to try to shut down the bottom of the White Sox order in the ninth. It would have been great if Tampa Bay had lost their game after losing their 8-1 lead, but at least the Sox gained on the Twins.

All in all, a great win.

Frater Perdurabo
09-10-2010, 10:50 PM
Either it's a vendetta or they need training on what constitutes a balk. It's a joke.

So basically, these umps are either incompetent, blind, or corrupt. :(:

mcsoxfan
09-10-2010, 10:51 PM
If Sale keeps up the great work, and if Jenks is too expensive and too injury-prone to be offered arbitration and re-signed, why not consider Sale for the closer's role in 2011?

Because Guillen (if he's still here) will try to use him like Mariano Rivera and blow the kid's arm out by the all star break

Zisk77
09-10-2010, 10:52 PM
My title would be the Morel of the story is don't cheat the sox!

I think Sale closes next year and becomes a starter in 2012, unless Peavey can't go that is.

thomas35forever
09-10-2010, 10:52 PM
I agree that long term he would be more valuable as a starter.

However, next year the Sox already have a stout five-man rotation, assuming Peavy is healthy.

Instead of spending 2011 in Birmingham and/or Charlotte, couldn't Sale be the closer for 2011 and then be a starter in 2012?

Would spending a year as a closer at the MLB level hurt his chances long-term of being an effective starting pitcher at the MLB level?
I dunno. Not every pitcher can be John Smoltz.

palehozenychicty
09-10-2010, 10:52 PM
A good win. I really want Morel to become a player. We won't really know until '13.

WhiteSox5187
09-10-2010, 10:53 PM
So basically, these umps are either incompetent, blind, or corrupt. :(:

Other than that though they are fine.

DirtySox
09-10-2010, 10:54 PM
A good win. I really want Morel to become a player. We won't really know until '13.

I'd wager Morel takes over 3B at some point next year.

WhiteSox5187
09-10-2010, 10:54 PM
Because Guillen (if he's still here) will try to use him like Mariano Rivera and blow the kid's arm out by the all star break

How many starters have blown out under Ozzie? Of all his flaws ruining young pitching isn't one of them.

Tragg
09-10-2010, 10:55 PM
I agree that long term he would be more valuable as a starter.

However, next year the Sox already have a stout five-man rotation, assuming Peavy is healthy.

Instead of spending 2011 in Birmingham and/or Charlotte, couldn't Sale be the closer for 2011 and then be a starter in 2012?

Would spending a year as a closer at the MLB level hurt his chances long-term of being an effective starting pitcher at the MLB level?

Trade one for an athletic RF and make Quentin Ozzie's DH who can play the field in a pinch.

Frater Perdurabo
09-10-2010, 10:55 PM
I dunno. Not every pitcher can be John Smoltz.

Not every pitcher. But maybe Sale can. If anyone here can make a compelling case that spending a year closing at the MLB level would limit his ability to maximize his potential as a starting pitcher, then of course I'm willing to listen and change my mind.

But if the choice is between him being an effective closer in 2011 and then starting in 2012 on one hand, and starting in the minors in 2011 and then starting for the Sox in 2012, all things being equal I'd rather choose the former because it would help the both Sox in 2011 and beyond.

johnnyg83
09-10-2010, 10:56 PM
So basically, these umps are either incompetent, blind, or corrupt. :(:

I think Angel Hernandez and West were voted worst two umpires by either the managers or the players by a WIIIIDDDDEEE margin.

Frater Perdurabo
09-10-2010, 10:56 PM
Trade one for an athletic RF and make Quentin Ozzie's DH who can play the field in a pinch.

Why not just sign Carl Crawford and have Quentin DH?

vinny
09-10-2010, 10:57 PM
So basically, these umps are either incompetent, blind, or corrupt. :(:
Don't forget stupid.

sox1970
09-10-2010, 10:57 PM
I'd wager Morel takes over 3B at some point next year.

If he plays his way into the every day lineup the rest of this season, he could be penciled in for opening day. Obviously, he wouldn't get away with an awful spring training, but I could see him beating out Teahen for a starting spot.

delben91
09-10-2010, 10:59 PM
I'd wager Morel takes over 3B at some point next year.

Is Morel strong enough defensively to handle the job? I admit I'm ignorant on that part of his game. Or are we signing up to have another Teahen out there, just younger?

Zisk77
09-10-2010, 11:00 PM
Why not just sign Carl Crawford and have Quentin DH?

$$$$$$$yankee$$$$$

also Crawford doesn't have the arm for RF. If we amazingly signed him your choice is LF or CF moving Rios to RF.

Frater Perdurabo
09-10-2010, 11:00 PM
Is Morel strong enough defensively to handle the job? I admit I'm ignorant on that part of his game. Or are we signing up to have another Teahen out there, just younger?

From what I understand he's a very good fielder. I've seen some comparisons to Crede.

DirtySox
09-10-2010, 11:00 PM
Why not just sign Carl Crawford and have Quentin DH?

Want. Don't see it happening though. I see him signing with New York.

thomas35forever
09-10-2010, 11:00 PM
Don't forget stupid.
http://wavatars.com/albums/avatars/cartoons/dexters-laboratory/thumb-dexter-02.jpghttp://wavatars.com/albums/avatars/cartoons/dexters-laboratory/thumb-dexter-02.jpghttp://images2.fanpop.com/image/photos/13100000/Dexter-dexters-laboratory-13130756-120-109.jpg
"They are stupid. They are stupid. And don't forget, they are stupid."

mcsoxfan
09-10-2010, 11:01 PM
If Teahen starts tomorrow, I will puke.

If Vizquel starts...well, can't say I disagree with that, since Vizquel is our best defensive infielder.

But if I see Teahen over at third...I will legitimately question Ozzie's sanity.

Ozzie will rest Morel tomorrow to keep him fresh for the off-season

DirtySox
09-10-2010, 11:01 PM
Is Morel strong enough defensively to handle the job? I admit I'm ignorant on that part of his game. Or are we signing up to have another Teahen out there, just younger?

Morel is known for his defense. It's his calling card. The bat will be the question.

sox1970
09-10-2010, 11:01 PM
Is Morel strong enough defensively to handle the job? I admit I'm ignorant on that part of his game. Or are we signing up to have another Teahen out there, just younger?

Yes, he's a plus defensive 3rd baseman. That gives him the leg up, even more than the offensive side.

Nelfox02
09-10-2010, 11:01 PM
thank you AJ

thank you KC defense

thank you Sale

honorable mention to burly for keeping us in this one

great to see this team rally, after playing dead for 7 innings.......like Morel's glove at 3B so far too

side note---anyone else going old school tonight and watching "sports writers on TV"?

Frater Perdurabo
09-10-2010, 11:01 PM
Morel is known for his defense. It's his bat that will be a question.

Didn't seem to be in doubt on that homer, though! :D:

DirtySox
09-10-2010, 11:02 PM
Didn't seem to be in doubt on that homer, though! :D:

I didn't expect that at all. Not to CF at least.

MtGrnwdSoxFan
09-10-2010, 11:05 PM
Morel is known for his defense. It's his calling card. The bat will be the question.

So he's Crede 2.0?

mcsoxfan
09-10-2010, 11:06 PM
Want. Don't see it happening though. I see him signing with New York.

I believe the Sox have a legitimate chance to sign Crawford.
He may not necessarily want to play in that fishbowl

DirtySox
09-10-2010, 11:06 PM
So he's Crede 2.0?

Not really. Morel doesn't project to have that much power. He also doesn't take many walks. The comparison is used to death, but he profiles like Joe Randa (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/randajo01.shtml).

Zisk77
09-10-2010, 11:07 PM
So he's Crede 2.0?

Actually Crede's calling card coming out of the minors was his bat...he was a 2 time MVP in the minors.

Craig Grebeck
09-10-2010, 11:07 PM
I agree that long term he would be more valuable as a starter.

However, next year the Sox already have a stout five-man rotation, assuming Peavy is healthy.

Instead of spending 2011 in Birmingham and/or Charlotte, couldn't Sale be the closer for 2011 and then be a starter in 2012?

Would spending a year as a closer at the MLB level hurt his chances long-term of being an effective starting pitcher at the MLB level?
I'd rather he prove he can pitch a starter's workload.

Pablo_Honey
09-10-2010, 11:08 PM
I didn't expect that at all. Not to CF at least.
Morel surely surprised many people with his bat this year. I doubt he will hit as well as he did this year, though. I expect a regression next year even if he hits the minors but he will be fine if he can do something like what Omar did for us this year.

So he's Crede 2.0?
His arm and power aren't Crede level. He's more like a Casey Blake or a Joe Randa.

rookie
09-10-2010, 11:11 PM
Headin home from the game! Thank you so much Sox, AJ, Chris, Mark, Alexei for winning! Thank goodness!:D:

DirtySox
09-10-2010, 11:12 PM
Morel surely surprised many people with his bat this year. I doubt he will hit as well as he did this year, though. I expect a regression next year even if he hits the minors but he will be fine if he can do something like what Omar did for us this year.

Yep. I think Morel will be a solid regular for a while. He won't be a star, but there is nothing wrong with that. The farm system needs to start churning out more players that can adequately fill holes.

doublem23
09-10-2010, 11:12 PM
rfUYuIVbFg0

Nelfox02
09-10-2010, 11:17 PM
Yep. I think Morel will be a solid regular for a while. He won't be a star, but there is nothing wrong with that. The farm system needs to start churning out more players that can adequately fill holes.

yes

dont need an all star at every position, but how about some solid young guys coming out of our system to provide the core of a good baseball team?

I still believe Beckham can fit that bill as well, hopefully a little better than just solid

CubsfansareDRUNK
09-10-2010, 11:29 PM
Equally as important...Twins Lost!!! :bandance::bandance::bandance:

ZombieRob
09-10-2010, 11:31 PM
I'd rather he prove he can pitch a starter's workload.
With that delivery and the velocity, do you think he'd last longer as a starter than a bullpen guy? That delivery he has could cause trouble.

tacosalbarojas
09-10-2010, 11:32 PM
I think Angel Hernandez and West were voted worst two umpires by either the managers or the players by a WIIIIDDDDEEE margin.
To borrow from hoops...we don't want to leave matters in the hands of the umps the next two days.

Four balks to Buehrls this year, all by this crew. This really does need to be addressed by MLB. It's painfully obvious that Joe West and his cronies have a nice little game going on here.

DirtySox
09-10-2010, 11:39 PM
With that delivery and the velocity, do you think he'd last longer as a starter than a bullpen guy? That delivery he has could cause trouble.

The Sox likely wouldn't have drafted him if they didn't think he could be a SP. Pitching mechanics aren't an exact science, so it's hard to definitively say who can or can't sustain a starter's workload until they actually give it a shot. I wouldn't be surprised either way.

ChiSoxGirl
09-10-2010, 11:49 PM
OK, so JB should always focus on work during games, and we need to send ChiSoxGirl to San Diego somehow...we do those, we'll be playing well into October!

Well, my uncle is leaving to go back there in the morning.... Maybe he could sneak me in his suitcase somehow. :wink:

Speaking of my uncle, I went over to my grandma's tonight to spend time with him and her, and when that error was committed in the eighth, I said to him, "Well, get ready for the epic comeback." I had no idea we'd be witnessing it a few minutes later!

The good news about having this umpiring crew now is that they will NOT be working our series with the Twins next week! Could you imagine the repercussions in those games from a stupid balk call?! I shudder at the mere thought of the floodgates opening because of a balk that wasn't. Let's just hope the Sox don't get C.B. Bucknor's crew for that series, though! :o:

I'm going to the game tomorrow night and would REALLY like to see them win; it'll be two months to the day since I've witnessed a Sox victory in person! One more thing... Go Indians!!!!!

tstrike2000
09-10-2010, 11:53 PM
Thank God they pulled this one out. The offense has really scuffled lately and to have this is huge.

chisoxfanatic
09-11-2010, 12:11 AM
Thank God they pulled this one out. The offense has really scuffled lately and to have this is huge.
I still stand by what I said before. :P

GoGoCrede
09-11-2010, 12:14 AM
Didn't catch any of this, but I'm thrilled. Hope lives on for the Southsiders.

Foulke You
09-11-2010, 12:24 AM
I was pretty upset that we couldn't put anything together against Chen, a guy we have hit in the past. Of course, we had hit Bonderman and Porcello well in the past too and that didn't work out...but I'll take it. A win is a win! That AJ double felt soooooo good. Sox are going down swinging at least.

Good thing Hawk wasn't here to witness that Joe West/Angel Hernandez vendetta. It wouldn't have been good for his blood pressure. Even Stone Pony mentioned that perhaps it was good that Hawk wasn't there.:D: That umpiring crew is an absolute joke. Buehrle has been using that same pickoff move for 10 years and this crew has a problem with it. However, I'm pretty sure Angel Hernandez was told by the "Sloth" Joe West to call any pickoff move by Buehrle a balk.

Hitmen77
09-11-2010, 12:29 AM
A good win. I really want Morel to become a player. We won't really know until '13.

Why 2013? :scratch:

Rdy2PlayBall
09-11-2010, 12:47 AM
Why 2013? :scratch:Teahen... what else would people be complaining about?

krispoulin
09-11-2010, 12:54 AM
Hey, "Country Joe West", quit your day job.

johnnyg83
09-11-2010, 12:54 AM
Teahen... what else would people be complaining about?

There's a laundry list.

stevemcstud
09-11-2010, 01:00 AM
Morel is known for his defense. It's his calling card. The bat will be the question.

In 08 the guy hit .375 in Rookie Ball (71 PA) and .297 in A (192 PA)

In 09 he hit .281 in High A

This year he hit .321 in AA (203 PA) and .320 in AAA (324 PA)

I don't really think his bat is in question and I am almost positive he will be starting next year especially with his above average defense.

He doesn't really have HR power but he has been solid in the minors with an .800+ OPS.

GlassSox
09-11-2010, 01:02 AM
We were at the game tonight and it was great to get a come from behind win. Morel's home run was a pleasant surprise. A good night at bat for AJ.

The offense continues to be flat.

stevemcstud
09-11-2010, 01:03 AM
Teahen... what else would people be complaining about?

100 bux Teahen gets traded ala the Nick Swisher trade.

DirtySox
09-11-2010, 01:05 AM
In 08 the guy hit .375 in Rookie Ball (71 PA) and .297 in A (192 PA)

In 09 he hit .281 in High A

This year he hit .321 in AA (203 PA) and .320 in AAA (324 PA)

I don't really think his bat is in question and I am almost positive he will be starting next year especially with his above average defense.

He doesn't really have HR power but he has been solid in the minors with an .800+ OPS.

The bat will be in question as he adjusts to major league pitching. It will also be in question regarding power expectations for a 3B.

I think he will hit enough to be successful, but I don't think he will hitting .300 with a an OPS of .800 or higher. I'm much more confident in the glove versus the bat.

FielderJones
09-11-2010, 01:10 AM
All things considered, a fun game to be at, even if the offense went to sleep for seven innings. The fans woke up pretty well after the second balk call, and they knew who to blame. "Joe West sucks" chant went up after he stared Ozzie into the dugout. Naturally, Chen's first pickoff move was called a balk by 27,000.

What a great hit by AJ after they pitched around Manny. The season's not over just yet, and a lot can happen in 21 games. That's why they play 'em.

hawkjt
09-11-2010, 01:14 AM
What a thrilling comeback. The Sox were absolutely dead in the water with 5 outs to go, then the error lets Alexei get on, and poof...baseball magic.
West and Hernandez should be brought in by MLB and be given their walking papers at the end of this year.
MLB should never have scheduled this crew for the Sox again...***?
It is embarrassing for MLB to have a crew that is so openly biased.
How can they explain that MB has 4 balks all year,all by this crew?
MB has pitched over 200 innings for ten fricking years,and suddenly he is balking only against one crew? Give me a break.

AJ and PK need to be brought back next year.. There are no better alternatives.

Lets hope that Carmona's 3 hit shutout puts the Twins in a funk offensively like Verlander did to the Sox.

Aint over til its over...

JermaineDye05
09-11-2010, 01:38 AM
Wow. After I stopped following the game earlier, I was fairly certain the Sox were on their way to another loss. My suspicions were nearly confirmed by the lack of text message alerts. I am so happy to come back and see the Sox came back late.

Thank you, KC bullpen!

:bandance:

SluggersAway
09-11-2010, 01:43 AM
He doesn't really have HR power...

He says on the day the guy hit his first major league home run! :scratch:

Unbelievable.

guillensdisciple
09-11-2010, 05:32 AM
I guess, in the end, it is my duty to cheer on this team regardless of all the bull**** I have gone through this year.

I guess, in the end, I have no choice but to say **** it.

I guess, in the end, this is my team and will always be my team.

So, I guess, the White Sox will have my faith- 10 games out, 20 games out- does not matter.

**** it Sox, **** it- just go for all of it. I will follow you until the very end,

**** the Twins, **** their team, **** their management, **** their fanbase, **** their city, **** everything about them. **** the fact that they think they can compete, **** the fact that they think they're good, **** everything about them.

It's time for a miracle my friends- time for a big ****ing miracle in Chicago. Time for us to jump for joy once more.


Lets go you ****ing Sox!

LITTLE NELL
09-11-2010, 06:20 AM
In 08 the guy hit .375 in Rookie Ball (71 PA) and .297 in A (192 PA)

In 09 he hit .281 in High A

This year he hit .321 in AA (203 PA) and .320 in AAA (324 PA)

I don't really think his bat is in question and I am almost positive he will be starting next year especially with his above average defense.

He doesn't really have HR power but he has been solid in the minors with an .800+ OPS.

Give me a whole team of guys like this and we go to the playoffs.

Can we get to 3 out by Sunday night and then sweep the Twins?

doublem23
09-11-2010, 07:00 AM
He says on the day the guy hit his first major league home run! :scratch:

Unbelievable.

That has nothing to do with it. Saying Juan Pierre doesn't have MLB power wouldn't be inaccurate, even if you posted it the day he hit his 1 HR this season.

Frater Perdurabo
09-11-2010, 07:33 AM
That has nothing to do with it. Saying Juan Pierre doesn't have MLB power wouldn't be inaccurate, even if you posted it the day he hit his 1 HR this season.

I think Morel has more power than Pierre, though.

doublem23
09-11-2010, 08:25 AM
I think Morel has more power than Pierre, though.

I think most of us posting here have more power than Pierre.

doublem23
09-11-2010, 08:32 AM
The bat will be in question as he adjusts to major league pitching. It will also be in question regarding power expectations for a 3B.

I think he will hit enough to be successful, but I don't think he will hitting .300 with a an OPS of .800 or higher. I'm much more confident in the glove versus the bat.

With Rios, Ramirez, and Bacon at CF, SS, and 2B respectively, the Sox should have enough offense from their standard D-first positions that they can afford to have below position offense from Morel, as long as he can throw some leather around. I mean, Vizquel is having a wonderful season for the Sox and his OPS is barely above .700. Get a MLB-caliber DH here and Morel can learn his way around the big leagues at the bottom of the lineup. This is his 3rd professional season and he's hit everywhere he's gone. I wouldn't mind at all if he was the front-runner to land the 3B spot next year.

The Sox pitching philosophy is to pitch to contact. We need as good of defenders out there as we can find. Look how the season turned around when cement hands Teahen we replaced by Vizquel.

Anything that keeps Teahen buried on the bench is fine with me. God, I hate that guy.

Tragg
09-11-2010, 09:16 AM
100 bux Teahen gets traded ala the Nick Swisher trade.
Is he pissing off Guillen like Swisher did?
Honestly, I don't think they could give Teahen away with that contract. Swisher had a fairly hefty contract too, but was a much better hitter career-wise.

That said, I'm not convinced he's next year's 3B. He's a sunk cost, so let him take the Kotsay role.

hawkjt
09-11-2010, 09:32 AM
Is he pissing off Guillen like Swisher did?
Honestly, I don't think they could give Teahen away with that contract. Swisher had a fairly hefty contract too, but was a much better hitter career-wise.

That said, I'm not convinced he's next year's 3B. He's a sunk cost, so let him take the Kotsay role.

I am going to take a wait and see attitude toward Teahen. Lets face it, the last two times the Sox brought in a guy, ie, Swisher and Rios, they struggled their first year. I was hopeful but not confident that Rios would work out this year...he has come thru bigtime. Swisher went to NY and has been good the last two years.
I do not want to slot Teahen in at third,but I will not write him off as the next ''Kotsay '' guy who can be a lefty DH,relieve PK at 1st,and Carlos in right field. Hopefully,Morel can flourish at 3rd.

Craig Grebeck
09-11-2010, 09:37 AM
I am going to take a wait and see attitude toward Teahen. Lets face it, the last two times the Sox brought in a guy, ie, Swisher and Rios, they struggled their first year. I was hopeful but not confident that Rios would work out this year...he has come thru bigtime. Swisher went to NY and has been good the last two years.
I do not want to slot Teahen in at third,but I will not write him off as the next ''Kotsay '' guy who can be a lefty DH,relieve PK at 1st,and Carlos in right field. Hopefully,Morel can flourish at 3rd.
Why? That's pretty much all he can do. He can't play 3rd everyday, and is not a good enough hitter to justify a full-time position at 1b or RF.

Unless you think he can play second base (OMG HE PLAYED THERE FOR YEARS OH WAIT I DON'T KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT), that's pretty much your only option with Teahen.

SCCWS
09-11-2010, 09:39 AM
With Rios, Ramirez, and Bacon at CF, SS, and 2B respectively, the Sox should have enough offense from their standard D-first positions that they can afford to have below position offense from Morel, as long as he can throw some leather around. I mean, Vizquel is having a wonderful season for the Sox and his OPS is barely above .700. Get a MLB-caliber DH here and Morel can learn his way around the big leagues at the bottom of the lineup. This is his 3rd professional season and he's hit everywhere he's gone. I wouldn't mind at all if he was the front-runner to land the 3B spot next year.



There have been a ton of complaints about the offense on this board. This season, 3b, C, LF and DH ( traditional AL power positions) have produced very limited power numbers. I agree w you that Rios and Ramirez are fine. Not sure what you like about Beckham's offense, but now w 2 seasons under his belt he has been basically a .260 hitter w limited HR production. He is a 9th batter. Last year posters were projecting 25 HR from Beckham this year but he will be lucky to get 12. He has only hit 2 away from the Cell. If Beckham can produce power numbers, you could live w Morel. But knowing LF is not a power position w Pierre and assuming AJ is back, you need to upgrade DH and 3b and hope TCQ gives you power numbers w his less than a full season of play.

SCCWS
09-11-2010, 09:47 AM
With Rios, Ramirez, and Bacon at CF, SS, and 2B respectively, the Sox should have enough offense from their standard D-first positions that they can afford to have below position offense from Morel, as long as he can throw some leather around. I mean, Vizquel is having a wonderful season for the Sox and his OPS is barely above .700. Get a MLB-caliber DH here and Morel can learn his way around the big leagues at the bottom of the lineup. This is his 3rd professional season and he's hit everywhere he's gone. I wouldn't mind at all if he was the front-runner to land the 3B spot next year.



There have been a ton of complaints about the offense on this board. This season, 3b, C, LF and DH ( traditional AL power positions) have produced very limited power numbers. I agree w you that Rios and Ramirez are fine. Not sure what you like about Beckham's offense, but now w 2 seasons under his belt he has been basically a .260 hitter w limited HR production. He is a 9th batter. Last year posters were projecting 25 HR from Beckham this year but he will be lucky to get 12. He has only hit 2 away from the Cell. If Beckham can produce power numbers, you could live w Morel. But knowing LF is not a power position w Pierre and assuming AJ is back, you need to upgrade DH and 3b and hope TCQ gives you power numbers w his less than a full season of play.

Craig Grebeck
09-11-2010, 09:50 AM
There have been a ton of complaints about the offense on this board. This season, 3b, C, LF and DH ( traditional AL power positions) have produced very limited power numbers. I agree w you that Rios and Ramirez are fine. Not sure what you like about Beckham's offense, but now w 2 seasons under his belt he has been basically a .260 hitter w limited HR production. He is a 9th batter. Last year posters were projecting 25 HR from Beckham this year but he will be lucky to get 12. He has only hit 2 away from the Cell. If Beckham can produce power numbers, you could live w Morel. But knowing LF is not a power position w Pierre and assuming AJ is back, you need to upgrade DH and 3b and hope TCQ gives you power numbers w his less than a full season of play.
Haha. What? Jesus Christ. Catcher?

Frater Perdurabo
09-11-2010, 09:55 AM
Why? That's pretty much all he can do. He can't play 3rd everyday, and is not a good enough hitter to justify a full-time position at 1b or RF.

Unless you think he can play second base (OMG HE PLAYED THERE FOR YEARS OH WAIT I DON'T KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT), that's pretty much your only option with Teahen.

Here's something we can all understand:

Mark Teahen (.747 career OPS) = Rob Mackowiak (.736 career OPS)

Decent/average LH hitter who isn't a good fielder

doublem23
09-11-2010, 09:58 AM
There have been a ton of complaints about the offense on this board. This season, 3b, C, LF and DH ( traditional AL power positions) have produced very limited power numbers. I agree w you that Rios and Ramirez are fine. Not sure what you like about Beckham's offense, but now w 2 seasons under his belt he has been basically a .260 hitter w limited HR production. He is a 9th batter. Last year posters were projecting 25 HR from Beckham this year but he will be lucky to get 12. He has only hit 2 away from the Cell. If Beckham can produce power numbers, you could live w Morel. But knowing LF is not a power position w Pierre and assuming AJ is back, you need to upgrade DH and 3b and hope TCQ gives you power numbers w his less than a full season of play.

Obviously, I'm hoping Beckham's 1st half was just a fluke, the process of him learning how to adjust to when the league adjusts to him. He's a 23-year-old kid with a lot of upside, I sincerely doubt he will finish his career as a .261 hitter.

FWIW, Ryne Sandberg's career numbers after his 2nd full MLB season: .265/.313/.360. In his 3rd season, 1984, he won the NL MVP. Young guys, especially those as good as Beckham, tend to get better.

doublem23
09-11-2010, 10:03 AM
100 bux Teahen gets traded ala the Nick Swisher trade.

I would love to believe that, but Swisher was a good player who was coming off a down year, and had a pretty reasonable (not great) contract. Teahen, meanwhile, has had 1 good season in the Majors, in 2006 when he was 24 years old. This year's garbagefest from him is slotting in nicely with his standard career numbers. He is just bad. And he's getting paid an assload to be bad.

The only way the Sox unload him is likely if they eat 90-100% of his remaining salary. I would still like them to do that.

Craig Grebeck
09-11-2010, 10:03 AM
I'd feel comfortable penciling Beckham in for a .270/.330/.420 season. I don't think that's his ceiling, but all things considered, that's not bad for a second baseman.

doublem23
09-11-2010, 10:07 AM
I'd feel comfortable penciling Beckham in for a .270/.330/.420 season. I don't think that's his ceiling, but all things considered, that's not bad for a second baseman.

He's also very sure-handed there. Morel-Ramirez-Beckham-Konerko (assuming he's back, too) would give the Sox a plus-defensive infield that is average offensively, capable of being above average if Bacon and Ramirez could ever figure out a way to put together a full season.

I wouldn't be opposed to the Sox bringing back Omar for 1 more season at his $1 M and change salary and giving Morel one more season in AAA, but aside from that, I don't see that many worthwhile improvements at 3B out there.

Craig Grebeck
09-11-2010, 10:11 AM
He's also very sure-handed there. Morel-Ramirez-Beckham-Konerko (assuming he's back, too) would give the Sox a plus-defensive infield that is average offensively, capable of being above average if Bacon and Ramirez could ever figure out a way to put together a full season.

I wouldn't be opposed to the Sox bringing back Omar for 1 more season at his $1 M and change salary and giving Morel one more season in AAA, but aside from that, I don't see that many worthwhile improvements at 3B out there.
I think relying on Omar as an everyday guy in 2012 would be a nightmare. Even though Morel might take some lumps, I think he'd be a better option. I'd rather have Omar around caddying for Morel. He's a good influence and (obviously) has tremendous versatility.

DickAllen72
09-11-2010, 10:38 AM
To borrow from hoops...we don't want to leave matters in the hands of the umps the next two days.

Four balks to Buehrls this year, all by this crew. This really does need to be addressed by MLB. It's painfully obvious that Joe West and his cronies have a nice little game going on here.
How often do you see the umpire make a pitcher remove a bracelet or a necklace? Yes, it happens from time to time, but was it just coincidence that they made Putz remove his bracelet in the eighth and Sale his necklace in the ninth last night?

Couple that with the two balk calls and it really brings the credibility of Major League Baseball into question if they allow this to continue. JR should be on the phone to his friend Bud Selig to put a stop to this crew now.

Tragg
09-11-2010, 10:39 AM
I am going to take a wait and see attitude toward Teahen. Lets face it, the last two times the Sox brought in a guy, ie, Swisher and Rios, they struggled their first year. I was hopeful but not confident that Rios would work out this year...he has come thru bigtime. Swisher went to NY and has been good the last two years.
I do not want to slot Teahen in at third,but I will not write him off as the next ''Kotsay '' guy who can be a lefty DH,relieve PK at 1st,and Carlos in right field. Hopefully,Morel can flourish at 3rd.
The difference is that Swisher and Rios had some really good years behind them before they came to the Sox.
My guess is that Teahen was a Guillen evaluatee.


The Sox have problems at C, 1B, RF, LF for next year.

But we should have the utility positions set: Teahen, Lillibridge and re-sign Omar for utility infielder. There should be no need to trade for utility level talent.

Domeshot17
09-11-2010, 11:00 AM
You need to upgrade at 3rd and DH next year. I think relying and wishing for Gordon to carry a load next year is a recipe for disaster. The guy probably isn't MVP good like some had believed. He won't post Longoria or Utley numbers. I remember some one once insanely said he could post Jeter numbers. Beckham is showing to be a lot more Howie Kendrick but with a slightly better eye. .270 ish hitter, 10-14 homers a year, 30-35 doubles, low 700 OPS. That is fine, that is a quality second baseman, but not one you can look at and call a cornerstone hitter.

As for this game, **** this Joe West crew. I know last game I refused to blame their calls for the loss, because we still had chances to win, but this is obviously getting petty. It is a real shame the mlb won't do anything about it. Big win. If we can take these next 2, and cleveland can find a way to steal 1 more, atleast it makes the upcoming series with Minnesota matter. If we have a slim chance to leave trailing by 1 or 2, we still have a prayer. But a Sweep is pretty much mandatory at this point of KC.

Domeshot17
09-11-2010, 11:01 AM
The difference is that Swisher and Rios had some really good years behind them before they came to the Sox.
My guess is that Teahen was a Guillen evaluatee.


The Sox have problems at C, 1B, RF, LF for next year.

But we should have the utility positions set: Teahen, Lillibridge and re-sign Omar for utility infielder. There should be no need to trade for utility level talent.

the problem is you can't do that. If you bring back Omar, Ozzie is going to inevitably give him 300-400 abs again.

Domeshot17
09-11-2010, 11:05 AM
He's also very sure-handed there. Morel-Ramirez-Beckham-Konerko (assuming he's back, too) would give the Sox a plus-defensive infield that is average offensively, capable of being above average if Bacon and Ramirez could ever figure out a way to put together a full season.

I wouldn't be opposed to the Sox bringing back Omar for 1 more season at his $1 M and change salary and giving Morel one more season in AAA, but aside from that, I don't see that many worthwhile improvements at 3B out there.

No more no power 3rd base please. I mean, over a full season Omar is looking in the ball park of 15 doubles 50 runs scored 45 rbis and an ops about 700. That is if he continues to get on base at a .360 clip. I know it was nice that he has hit for a good average, but the lack of production from an equally offensive position has hurt us this year. He isn't driving in OR scoring many runs, because he is rarely on second base.

I have no problem with a guy like Morel. He is probably Teahen offensively his rookie year. 260-270 hitter, 25-30 doubles, around 10 homers. But its going to lead to more runs produced, and his glove looks mlb ready.

Craig Grebeck
09-11-2010, 11:06 AM
No more no power 3rd base please. I mean, over a full season Omar is looking in the ball park of 15 doubles 50 runs scored 45 rbis and an ops about 700. That is if he continues to get on base at a .360 clip. I know it was nice that he has hit for a good average, but the lack of production from an equally offensive position has hurt us this year. He isn't driving in OR scoring many runs, because he is rarely on second base.
Morel is a viable option. Upgrade at DH if you want to upgrade offensively.

Edit: sorry Dome, didn't see your edit 'til just now.

DirtySox
09-11-2010, 11:33 AM
With Rios, Ramirez, and Bacon at CF, SS, and 2B respectively, the Sox should have enough offense from their standard D-first positions that they can afford to have below position offense from Morel, as long as he can throw some leather around. I mean, Vizquel is having a wonderful season for the Sox and his OPS is barely above .700. Get a MLB-caliber DH here and Morel can learn his way around the big leagues at the bottom of the lineup. This is his 3rd professional season and he's hit everywhere he's gone. I wouldn't mind at all if he was the front-runner to land the 3B spot next year.

The Sox pitching philosophy is to pitch to contact. We need as good of defenders out there as we can find. Look how the season turned around when cement hands Teahen we replaced by Vizquel.

Anything that keeps Teahen buried on the bench is fine with me. God, I hate that guy.

Agreed.

I sincerely hope he is the starting 3B at some point next year. Hopefully sooner rather then later. I don't think Omar will replicate this year's success.

KMcMahon817
09-11-2010, 11:37 AM
More value as a SP.

Honestly, I agree. I think he could be a filthy starter, but maybe with so much money already committed to next year, they do go with Sale as the closer for one more season, and then have him convert into a starter.

I didn't watch the game. But man, I was pumped when I saw "In play, RUNS" on my phone in the bottom of the 8th when AJ was up. Let's get em again today boys, and continue on our way to a 9-0 homestand. It's still possible...

Dibbs
09-11-2010, 11:38 AM
I waited over five months to see someone in the DH spot that can actually hit a baseball better than me. So Manny, if you are reading this, something other than a single would be nice. Like an RBI or a double or something. Thanks.

FielderJones
09-11-2010, 12:42 PM
How often do you see the umpire make a pitcher remove a bracelet or a necklace? Yes, it happens from time to time, but was it just coincidence that they made Putz remove his bracelet in the eighth and Sale his necklace in the ninth last night?

I was in section 130, behind home plate. That necklace was actually very shiny. So I could see how, with Sale's motion, a batter could get distracted with a flash of light reflecting off that necklace bouncing around. Now, it might have been the crew being jerks, but it also might have been the batter saying something after that first pitch.

That said, I'm not a fan of any type of jewelry being worn while competing in sports.

Tragg
09-11-2010, 12:56 PM
the problem is you can't do that. If you bring back Omar, Ozzie is going to inevitably give him 300-400 abs again.

Any good utility player that shows Ozzie Guillen the proper "respect" is going to be over-played by Ozzie Guillen. No way to stop it.

Craig Grebeck
09-11-2010, 01:08 PM
I call bull**** on this Vizquel "overuse" meme. The guy has been great. He deserves the playing time, especially given the alternatives. Take a look at his usage prior to Teahen going down.

DickAllen72
09-11-2010, 01:11 PM
I was in section 130, behind home plate. That necklace was actually very shiny. So I could see how, with Sale's motion, a batter could get distracted with a flash of light reflecting off that necklace bouncing around. Now, it might have been the crew being jerks, but it also might have been the batter saying something after that first pitch.

That said, I'm not a fan of any type of jewelry being worn while competing in sports.
It's certainly legitimate to make a pitcher remove a piece of distracting jewelry or clothing. But I've seen many a pitcher wear jewelry without it ever being an issue. Usually it would be a batter complaining to the ump and then the ump tells the pitcher to remove the item.

Did KC players complain about the jewelry Putz and Sale were wearing last night or did the umps take it upon themselves to object?

downstairs
09-11-2010, 01:29 PM
Its less exciting when they win must-win games.

1 down, 5 to go. Have to win them all IMHO.

Problem is Minny has a nearly 100% cupcake schedule from here on out. They finish with Toronto (and I guess the final series of the season could always be considered "cupcake" because players are either thinking of the upcoming playoffs or their upcoming golf games).

Taliesinrk
09-11-2010, 01:53 PM
Just looking at the replays, Buehrle's first balk looked like a balk. The second one was nowhere near being a balk.

I don't understand how the homeplate umpire could have called either of them. Angel Hernandez should be suspended.

While I realize the either ump can call the balk, I believe the home-plate umpire often has an easier time doing so because the 1st base umpire's responsibility is the play at 1st base, whereas the homeplate ump can focus solely on the pitcher. technically, each has the same angle (as far as viewing the 45 degree line often used to determine whether the pitcher was going home or to first)... I realize there are many other factors in considering a balk, but the 1st base umpire seems to have more on his plate in making the call.

fram40
09-11-2010, 02:00 PM
West and Hernandez should be brought in by MLB and be given their walking papers at the end of this year.
MLB should never have scheduled this crew for the Sox again...***?
It is embarrassing for MLB to have a crew that is so openly biased.
How can they explain that MB has 4 balks all year,all by this crew?
MB has pitched over 200 innings for ten fricking years,and suddenly he is balking only against one crew? Give me a break.

The thing I would like to know is - does this crew call balks on other lefties with great moves ... such as Andy Petitte? We know that many lefties push the boundaries with their move to first base. But this crew is the only crew to call balks on Buehrle.

If this crew is the only crew to call balks on Buehrle and, in addition, calls balks only on Buehrle - it is pretty damn clear that this crew has a vendetta against the Sox or Guillen or Hawk.

Man, I hate to agree with Hawk's conspiracy theories ...

Tragg
09-11-2010, 02:11 PM
I call bull**** on this Vizquel "overuse" meme. The guy has been great. He deserves the playing time, especially given the alternatives. Take a look at his usage prior to Teahen going down.

I agree he hasn't been overused.....we had no alternative.

Domeshot17
09-11-2010, 02:19 PM
I call bull**** on this Vizquel "overuse" meme. The guy has been great. He deserves the playing time, especially given the alternatives. Take a look at his usage prior to Teahen going down.

I wasn't really griping on this year, Omar did well when we needed him. He has hardly been "great" but he has been fine. That said, I wouldn't trust Ozzie to break in Morel when Omar is around.

The one reason I do want Omar back is to teach Morel how to be a solid infielder. I like Joey Cora, but Cora had Ramirez 2 years, and we NEVER saw any kind of growth defensively until Omar came in. Ozzie was trying to credit cora for his growth, but I think it is obvious its in large part due to Omar. Omar is going to make a hell of a coach/manager one day.

Pablo_Honey
09-11-2010, 02:41 PM
I wasn't really griping on this year, Omar did well when we needed him. He has hardly been "great" but he has been fine. That said, I wouldn't trust Ozzie to break in Morel when Omar is around.
Me neither. Ozzie will start to use Omar as a starter over Morel the moment Morel shows a struggle with his bat and/or glove (Remember Brian Anderson debacle?) Omar has been great for us, no doubt, but the Sox need to continually build up on its young core of players, and they can't do that if they keep bringing in veterans to take playing time away from the youngsters (Yes, if the yongsters hit the wall hard, then we're SOL but that's just the risk we need to take to get better).

Brian26
09-11-2010, 03:05 PM
How often do you see the umpire make a pitcher remove a bracelet or a necklace? Yes, it happens from time to time, but was it just coincidence that they made Putz remove his bracelet in the eighth and Sale his necklace in the ninth last night?

Didn't the ump make him take it off at the request of the KC batter? I don't see what the issue is with this. The balk calls, however, are a joke.

SCCWS
09-11-2010, 03:06 PM
I wasn't really griping on this year, Omar did well when we needed him. He has hardly been "great" but he has been fine. That said, I wouldn't trust Ozzie to break in Morel when Omar is around.

The one reason I do want Omar back is to teach Morel how to be a solid infielder. I like Joey Cora, but Cora had Ramirez 2 years, and we NEVER saw any kind of growth defensively until Omar came in. Ozzie was trying to credit cora for his growth, but I think it is obvious its in large part due to Omar. Omar is going to make a hell of a coach/manager one day.

I think it is reasonable to predict the starting pitching will be better than this season. But offensively:

1. I don't think we can assume Paulie will duplicate this season. It is realistic to expect some drop-off to 25 HR
2. AJ will not be a better hitter. It is reasonable to expect he will decline somewhat offensively.
3. The DH will definitely produce more power regardless what direction they go. Say 25 HR. The DH this year will produce about 12.
4. What we got offensively this season from 2B-SS-LF-CF will be about what we get next year. I realize Rios is probably having a "career year" but I think he will do so again. I don't expect we will get the 35-40 HR we did from TCQ/Jones next year.

So it is reasonable to say that if Omar or Morel play 3b next year, the offense may be about the same. I think they need to do what the other AL contenders do--- get offense from 3B. BOS-TB-NY-TEXAS-DET all get 20+ HR from their 3B. Only Minn and the White Sox do not.

SOXSINCE'70
09-11-2010, 03:40 PM
100 bux Teahen gets traded ala the Nick Swisher trade.

Memo to KW: This time, get something more than a bag of used baseballs.

JermaineDye05
09-11-2010, 04:12 PM
Memo to KW: This time, get something more than a bag of used baseballs.

Nick Swisher had FAR MORE upside than Teahen.

Teahen is not going to get you much because he really doesn't do anything all that well.

A better memo would be: Stop making trades with Kansas City unless they involve Zack Greinke and/or Billy Butler.