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manders_01
09-09-2010, 11:37 PM
No, not the awesome late 80's movie starting Jodie Foster... :D:

I need a little help on this one. I didn't see the game, just this highlight but maybe you guys can help. I don't think it's any secret that the slight nuances of baseball can sometimes evade me. I just don't understand how Masset gets so confused. There's no runner at second, why does he even look that way? Does the crowd start cheering when they see Nelson go and Masset thinks it's cheers behind him? Here's the play. (http://colorado.rockies.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=11891685&topic_id=8878968&c_id=col)

Don't get me wrong, I'm obviously very happy at the results. :cool:

MtGrnwdSoxFan
09-09-2010, 11:52 PM
No, not the awesome late 80's movie starting Jodie Foster... :D:

I need a little help on this one. I didn't see the game, just this highlight but maybe you guys can help. I don't think it's any secret that the slight nuances of baseball can sometimes evade me. I just don't understand how Masset gets so confused. There's no runner at second, why does he even look that way? Does the crowd start cheering when they see Nelson go and Masset thinks it's cheers behind him? Here's the play. (http://colorado.rockies.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=11891685&topic_id=8878968&c_id=col)

Don't get me wrong, I'm obviously very happy at the results. :cool:

...because Nick Masset is bad at baseball?

Believe me, I was not sorry to see him leave the Sox in '08 in the Griffey trade.

However, I'm glad to see that the Rockies are getting hot...I picked them to win the NL West, and they're my favorite NL team.

Pablo_Honey
09-09-2010, 11:52 PM
While there was nobody at second, there was a runner at 1st. It's very common to see guys stealing second; on the other hand, you very rarely see guys stealing home (When they do, it's fun to watch :smile:). So Masset probably assumed naturally that it was the guy at first going to second.

manders_01
09-09-2010, 11:54 PM
While there was nobody at second, there was a runner at 1st. It's very common to see guys stealing second; on the other hand, you very rarely see guys stealing home (When they do, it's fun to watch :smile:). So Masset probably assumed naturally that it was the guy at first going to second.

Okay, I hadn't thought about that but it makes sense. Especially the way he spins around. Thanks!

harwar
09-10-2010, 06:17 AM
yea, Masset was totally ignoring Nelson at 3rd and focusing on keeping Mora at 1st from going .. he must have been fairly shocked when he spun around to nail him trying to steal 2nd, only to see him just standing there .. it was weird because he spun to his right and must have looked right past Nelson .. i really like the Rockies and i watch them as much as the White Sox .. i lived in Colorado for years and i just wish that they had a MLB team when i was there ..

DumpJerry
09-10-2010, 06:37 AM
Coop's fixings wore off.

slavko
09-10-2010, 10:18 AM
What's the catcher doing in front of home plate to receive the throw? Does that have to be called a ball or strike?

Zisk77
09-10-2010, 11:18 AM
What's the catcher doing in front of home plate to receive the throw? Does that have to be called a ball or strike?

The pitcher stepped off the rubber, so it was a throw home and not a pitch so the catcher could move up and the batter can't interfere.

Massett probably heard the 3b yell step off with the runner going and Massett figured the balk steal was on which is why he spun. He should still freeze the runner on 3b with a fake before spinning...bad fundamentals.

fram40
09-10-2010, 04:09 PM
What's the catcher doing in front of home plate to receive the throw? Does that have to be called a ball or strike?

But I've seen a lot of replays on a straight steal that seems to be a legal picth and the catcher jumps out too early in an attempt to catch and tag. It almost seems that Yogi Berra leaps out too early on a legal pitch when Jackie Robinson steals home in te hWS.

What happens if the batter swings? I don't believe I have ever seen a batter swing on an attempted straight steal of home.

I have never seen a straight steal of home live, in person. I did see an attempted steal of home in the WS sometime in the '80 (by a Cardinal, I think)>? A very exciting play

downstairs
09-10-2010, 04:34 PM
But I've seen a lot of replays on a straight steal that seems to be a legal picth and the catcher jumps out too early in an attempt to catch and tag. It almost seems that Yogi Berra leaps out too early on a legal pitch when Jackie Robinson steals home in te hWS.

What happens if the batter swings? I don't believe I have ever seen a batter swing on an attempted straight steal of home.

I have never seen a straight steal of home live, in person. I did see an attempted steal of home in the WS sometime in the '80 (by a Cardinal, I think)>? A very exciting play


I saw the Yogi think right now. You never see if the pitcher is off the rubber. However, the batter appears to be in a stance to hit, and Yogi absolutely jumps out.

Maybe its not interferrence if the batter doesn't swing and hit him somehow? Maybe the batter could have taken a (light, not dangerous) swing and tapped Berra?

However-you'd never WANT to do that. You want to give your runner a chance to score. Getting interferrence would send Jackie back to thrid and I guess get you first for free?

All in all, there's no real reason to swing on an attempted steal of home.

TDog
09-10-2010, 04:50 PM
The pitcher stepped off the rubber, so it was a throw home and not a pitch so the catcher could move up and the batter can't interfere.

Massett probably heard the 3b yell step off with the runner going and Massett figured the balk steal was on which is why he spun. He should still freeze the runner on 3b with a fake before spinning...bad fundamentals.


Masset stepped off the rubber when he turned toward second. When he threw home, had the batter swung at the pitch and made contact with the catcher (or the catcher moved to avoid being hit), he would have been called out and the runners sent back to their bases.

On the other hand, if a catcher steps in front of the plate to take a pitch on a suicide squeeze and the batter swings hard and hits the catcher in the back of the head, the batter is awarded first base, even if it appears to be intentionally done. If the pitcher throws to the plate while standing on the rubber, the hitter has every right to the ball. Whether Masset is on the rubber defines whether the ball coming home is a legal pitch.

Frankly, I'm surprised Masset didn't balk on that play as flustered as he seemed. When he came in to pitch against the Giants this summer and his ERA was over 7, I could see he hasn't been doing well since leaving the American League.

Pablo_Honey
09-10-2010, 05:13 PM
When he came in to pitch against the Giants this summer and his ERA was over 7, I could see he hasn't been doing well since leaving the American League.
Actually it's quite the opposite. He's kept his ERA below 3.5 since leaving us. Maybe the NL really is just that bad because the guy was equivalent to Tony Pena of 2010 when he pitched for us.

TDog
09-10-2010, 05:24 PM
Actually it's quite the opposite. He's kept his ERA below 3.5 since leaving us. Maybe the NL really is just that bad because the guy was equivalent to Tony Pena of 2010 when he pitched for us.

They play by different rules, but there isn't much difference between the leagues, and with the young stars in the National League, the National League will probably be stronger overall than the National League in a few years, although that could change with free-agent signings and trades.

Individual players' successes and failures don't prove anything, though. You can't say that because Edwin Jackson is pitching better in the American League than he did in the National League this year (and his no-hitter was against an American League team during interleague play) that he proves the National League is stronger.

I know that when I've seen Masset pitch for the Reds he doesn't seem to be the pitcher he was with the White Sox.

Pablo_Honey
09-10-2010, 06:22 PM
They play by different rules, but there isn't much difference between the leagues, and with the young stars in the National League, the National League will probably be stronger overall than the National League in a few years, although that could change with free-agent signings and trades.

Individual players' successes and failures don't prove anything, though. You can't say that because Edwin Jackson is pitching better in the American League than he did in the National League this year (and his no-hitter was against an American League team during interleague play) that he proves the National League is stronger.

I know that when I've seen Masset pitch for the Reds he doesn't seem to be the pitcher he was with the White Sox.
Yeah, you do have a point. I guess it's just that I hear more about guys who go from being average in AL to great in NL (Off the top of my head: Arroyo, Lilly, Doug Davis for some time) than you do the other way round. I don't follow the Reds so I don't know whether or not he tweaked something that helped him have this much success, but if he did, it's weird Coop couldn't figure it out and the Reds did (Masset pulled a 180 as soon as he put on that Reds uniform).