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View Full Version : *Official* '... Well, that should just about do it' 9/9 Postgame Thread


TheOldRoman
09-09-2010, 02:19 PM
That sucked.

GoGoCrede
09-09-2010, 02:19 PM
I'm slowly becoming numb to the whole thing. I hate that feeling, it means I'm starting to accept the inevitable. I don't wanna!

cleanwsox
09-09-2010, 02:20 PM
Last one out, shut off the lights.

dwitt76
09-09-2010, 02:20 PM
This team is putting us out of our misery. Magic number for us being elminated 17 and counting.

soltrain21
09-09-2010, 02:20 PM
Yeah. That oughta do it.

salty99
09-09-2010, 02:20 PM
6 back

tdwiek
09-09-2010, 02:21 PM
So this is it, this is where it ends, in crappy Detroit!!! Hell of a season anyway boys!!

soxfanatlanta
09-09-2010, 02:22 PM
What a horse **** series.

Soxman219
09-09-2010, 02:22 PM
It's over.

thomas35forever
09-09-2010, 02:22 PM
Help!
:whiteflag:

Jurr
09-09-2010, 02:23 PM
Yeah, they are just running out of steam. Injuries are starting to pile up.
I had a bad feeling about this series, especially after how hard they scratched and clawed in Boston. Minnesota hit a nice groove at the same time, and it's just about all over.

I'm just thankful we were still talking baseball in September.

1989
09-09-2010, 02:23 PM
Way to choke on applesauce guys. 4 hits each against Cy Young's Bonderman and Porcello? Our offense must have plans they don't want to miss in October.

harwar
09-09-2010, 02:23 PM
I'm not the kind of guy that likes to give up on anything but maybe it's time to start thinking about next year ..

GoGoCrede
09-09-2010, 02:23 PM
So this is it, this is where it ends, in crappy Detroit!!! Hell of a season anyway boys!!

This is why it stings so much! I said this in the postgame thread last night, but after all the fighting and excitement this season, THIS is how it ends? With a rather boring, ho-hum series in Detroit? Sad stuff. Better start winning and fast....but it doesn't look good.

WhiteSox5187
09-09-2010, 02:23 PM
The tragic number is now 17. Even if we sweep the Twins we have to rattle off another ten game winning streak and while I think we will go down fighting, I don't think we have any magic left. When you go 7-3 on a 10 game roadtrip and lose two games in the standings it's just not your year.

SoxSpeed22
09-09-2010, 02:23 PM
****.
Well, we had a good run.
When you go 7-3 on a 10 game roadtrip and lose two games in the standings it's just not your year.
QFT, unfortunately.

doublem23
09-09-2010, 02:24 PM
I can't believe a 7-3 road trip could feel so bad.

salty99
09-09-2010, 02:24 PM
Sox 5-9 hitters went 0-30 last 2 games.

JB98
09-09-2010, 02:24 PM
How many hits did the Sox have today? Four? And half of them were by the oldest man in baseball. Not good enough.

Floyd was not nearly good enough today either, and the defense left something to be desired as well.

The Sox looked tired today. They can't afford to look tired in the situation they are in right now. I think the team has done the best it possibly could with the resources it has, but it just isn't good enough. Normally, we would not be disappointed by a 7-3 road trip, but that's the reality of the situation.

GoGoCrede
09-09-2010, 02:24 PM
I can't believe a 7-3 road trip could feel so bad.

There are just no words. Ughhh. If you would have told me we'd sweep Boston and then suck against Detroit, I'd have laughed.

ChiSoxGal85
09-09-2010, 02:24 PM
I'm slowly becoming numb to the whole thing. I hate that feeling, it means I'm starting to accept the inevitable. I don't wanna!
This. The Sox can't play like that and expect to win the division. Ain't gonna happen. (And I will gladly eat my words if it comes to that.)

Quentin08
09-09-2010, 02:25 PM
At least they gave us an exciting summer. We all thought it was over in June, and then they went on 2 thrilling winning streaks and stayed in a tight race until the last 3 weeks of the season.

TheOldRoman
09-09-2010, 02:27 PM
Way to choke on applesauce guys. 4 hits each against Cy Young's Bonderman and Porcello? Our offense must have plans they don't want to miss in October.The weather must have been too cold in Detroit. Either that or they were trying too hard.

JB98
09-09-2010, 02:27 PM
At least they gave us an exciting summer. We all thought it was over in June, and then they went on 2 thrilling winning streaks and stayed in a tight race until the last 3 weeks of the season.

Agreed. There have been worse seasons.

WhiteSox5187
09-09-2010, 02:27 PM
It sucks because we did play very hard and we fought and fought but our inability to beat the teams we are supposed to beat did us in this year as it did in 2009. I'm sure we will still fight, but, I think it's all for naught. It will take an epic Minnesota collapse combined with us playing out of our heads (we already played .700 ball and STILL lost two games in the standings). I hope the Twins enjoy getting swept, and hopefully next year will be better.

GoGoCrede
09-09-2010, 02:28 PM
This. The Sox can't play like that and expect to win the division. Ain't gonna happen. (And I will gladly eat my words if it comes to that.)

Agreed. I don't want to watch another October where the Twins go three-and-out, as ****ing always.

Law11
09-09-2010, 02:29 PM
Im not putting the nail in em just yet but yes it does look pretty bad.

TheOldRoman
09-09-2010, 02:30 PM
How many hits did the Sox have today? Four? And half of them were by the oldest man in baseball. Not good enough.

Floyd was not nearly good enough today either, and the defense left something to be desired as well.

The Sox looked tired today. They can't afford to look tired in the situation they are in right now. I think the team has done the best it possibly could with the resources it has, but it just isn't good enough. Normally, we would not be disappointed by a 7-3 road trip, but that's the reality of the situation.I completely disagree with this. This team is plenty good enough to beat the Twins. Taking the first two months of the season off goes a long way. Even with Peavy's season ending injury, this team underacheived big time.

kobo
09-09-2010, 02:31 PM
I won't believe anything is over until next week. The Twins are in Cleveland this weekend and the Sox get the Royals at home. There is still hope though it is dwindling. I just also refuse to believe the Twins can continue playing .650 baseball.

soxfanatlanta
09-09-2010, 02:31 PM
Agreed. I don't want to watch another October where the Twins go three-and-out, as ****ing always.

Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't they are prolly going to face the winner of the AL East in the first round (since Texas is backing its way into October)?

If so, then it will be a quick series for them.

Sad
09-09-2010, 02:31 PM
and this season is OVAH!

:whiner:
:mad:

WhiteSox5187
09-09-2010, 02:31 PM
I completely disagree with this. This team is plenty good enough to beat the Twins. Taking the first two months of the season off goes a long way. Even with Peavy's season ending injury, this team underacheived big time.

As much as the mini-collapse of August hurt with the bullpen imploding due to injuries, the fact that we took the first two months off and even then continued to lose to the likes of the Indians and the Royals is what really did us in.

OmahaSoxFan
09-09-2010, 02:32 PM
Outside of the 7 game winning streak, the August and September White Sox looked a lot like the April-May Sox... Rough starts by our pitchers, crap defense, and a lack of hitting. June and July were definitely a treat, but my optimism is wearing razor thin... Stick a fork in the 2010 White Sox, they are pretty much done... Cue another first round exit by the Twits... Ugh!

Maybe Ozzie will realize the end is near and start getting some extra time in for the youngsters such as Viciedo, Morel, etc. Maybe it wouldn't hurt to throw Sale out there for a start (for Freddy), time to get this club ready for next year...

It was a fun season no doubt though, just wish the Twins would have learned how to lose the last few weeks.

GoGoCrede
09-09-2010, 02:32 PM
Way to choke on applesauce guys. 4 hits each against Cy Young's Bonderman and Porcello? Our offense must have plans they don't want to miss in October.

This made me laugh. But really, our starters haven't done a whole lot better. As much as I love them, they really haven't made it easier on the offense. I had hoped the tight race would make them really step it up and give stellar performances, but it really hasn't been that way, save for a few gems here and there. They're probably pretty tired by now, though.

Crestani
09-09-2010, 02:33 PM
As much as the mini-collapse of August hurt with the bullpen imploding due to injuries, the fact that we took the first two months off and even then continued to lose to the likes of the Indians and the Royals is what really did us in.


Not to mention the blown leads against the Twins.

WhiteSox5187
09-09-2010, 02:33 PM
I won't believe anything is over until next week. The Twins are in Cleveland this weekend and the Sox get the Royals at home. There is still hope though it is dwindling. I just also refuse to believe the Twins can continue playing .650 baseball.

The Twins can play .500 ball and still win the division unless the Sox play something like .800 ball. The White Sox need to play out of their minds and they need to beat teams that they are supposed to beat and two of those teams are out west.

WhiteSox5187
09-09-2010, 02:35 PM
This made me laugh. But really, our starters haven't done a whole lot better. As much as I love them, they really haven't made it easier on the offense. I had hoped the tight race would make them really step it up and give stellar performances, but it really hasn't been that way, save for a few gems here and there. They're probably pretty tired by now, though.

Well, Freddy is running on fumes and Danks was done in by Teahen at third and a ball that Rios probably should have gotten in CF last night. Floyd looked bad today, but even there Quentin made a throwing error that allowed two runs to come across.

CubsfansareDRUNK
09-09-2010, 02:35 PM
I'm not giving up

JB98
09-09-2010, 02:36 PM
I completely disagree with this. This team is plenty good enough to beat the Twins. Taking the first two months of the season off goes a long way. Even with Peavy's season ending injury, this team underacheived big time.

Pffftttt....I predicted this team would go 78-84 at the start of the year.

WhiteSox5187
09-09-2010, 02:36 PM
Not to mention the blown leads against the Twins.

Those hurt, but if we were able to beat up on the Royals and Indians like the Twins do we'd be a lot closer in the division.

TheOldRoman
09-09-2010, 02:36 PM
Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't they are prolly going to face the winner of the AL East in the first round (since Texas is backing its way into October)?

If so, then it will be a quick series for them.Texas has the worst record right now so they will get the winner of the East. Either way, yes, whoever gets the Twins will be soaking themselves in champagne three games later.

OmahaSoxFan
09-09-2010, 02:36 PM
Look at all the guests here to watch us Sox fans vent over losing three out of four to Detoilet (81 guests?)...

To you, which I figure most are Twits and Scrubs fans, Buzz Off! LOL!

Dan H
09-09-2010, 02:36 PM
It is always good to have hope, but we need to be realistic. Way too far back with such a short time to go. And to be outscored 20-6 in three games against a team like Detroit only shows that the season is over. I am not even thinking about any possible scenarios about how the team might have a chance. They don't have one.

This has not been a great year for Floyd. He shows some brillance at times and then tanks it for a few starts. Needed something excellent from him today and it didn't happen. There has to be some serious evaluation of this team at year's end.

RedHeadPaleHoser
09-09-2010, 02:37 PM
They don't win the division, fine. Just ****ing sweep the Twins next week and don't let those ****faces celebrate at the Cell.

bunty_doghunter
09-09-2010, 02:38 PM
At least we got Manny!

GoGoCrede
09-09-2010, 02:39 PM
They don't win the division, fine. Just ****ing sweep the Twins next week and don't let those ****faces celebrate at the Cell.

Agreed. Give us that much.

BadBobbyJenks
09-09-2010, 02:39 PM
Our two biggest games of the year and our "Aces" give up 11 total runs.

Absolutely ridiculous.

whitesoxfan
09-09-2010, 02:41 PM
Our aces were horrible, but so were the bats. They just looked lifeless and it seemed like they wanted to get the **** out of there as fast as possible.

Brutal, brutal, brutal.

Crestani
09-09-2010, 02:42 PM
This has not been a great year for Floyd. He shows some brillance at times and then tanks it for a few starts. Needed something excellent from him today and it didn't happen. There has to be some serious evaluation of this team at year's end.


I would not mind a package trade of Floyd and Quentin for....Anybody...Anybody...Bueller, Bueller..!!:scratch:

OmahaSoxFan
09-09-2010, 02:43 PM
Texas has the worst record right now so they will get the winner of the East. Either way, yes, whoever gets the Twins will be soaking themselves in champagne three games later.

Yep, no postseason featuring the Twins, goes withouta 3-0 exit by the Twins... Have fun against NYY or TB, I would bet quite a few dollars that the Twits won't get past the first round. How many games will Capps blow in the first round? At least two, I say...

GoGoCrede
09-09-2010, 02:43 PM
I would not mind a package trade of Floyd and Quentin for....Anybody...Anybody...Bueller, Bueller..!!:scratch:

Hey, let's not get crazy, now. :cool:

TDog
09-09-2010, 02:43 PM
I don't think the season is over. But I don't see an improvement in the offense with a full-time, "professional" DH.

TheOldRoman
09-09-2010, 02:45 PM
Pffftttt....I predicted this team would go 78-84 at the start of the year.... and? Lots of people underestimated this team. They have done this with Quentin being mostly awful, with AJ being mostly awful, Alexei doing nothing in April, Beckham struggling into June and with our vaunted pitching staff taking the first two months off.

BadBobbyJenks
09-09-2010, 02:45 PM
Twins are good folks, they are not going to just roll over in the playoffs because you want them too.

thomas35forever
09-09-2010, 02:46 PM
Twins are good folks, they are not going to just roll over in the playoffs because you want them too.

You think they're going to win the pennant?

TheOldRoman
09-09-2010, 02:47 PM
Yep, no postseason featuring the Twins, goes withouta 3-0 exit by the Twins... Have fun against NYY or TB, I would bet quite a few dollars that the Twits won't get past the first round. How many games will Capps blow in the first round? At least two, I say...Eh, I am inclined to say Capps only blows one save. Fuentes will give up a big homer in the late innings in another game, though. God, I hate rooting for the Yankees. Please, Rays, win the damn division.

GoGoCrede
09-09-2010, 02:47 PM
Twins are good folks, they are not going to just roll over in the playoffs because you want them too.

Yeah, just like last year. Oh....wait.

DirtySox
09-09-2010, 02:47 PM
I don't think the season is over. But I don't see an improvement in the offense with a full-time, "professional" DH.

Small sample size says hi.

Keep up the Kotsay fight though. It's hilarious reading.

Crestani
09-09-2010, 02:48 PM
:smile:Hey, let's not get crazy, now. :cool:


My attempt at humor and I forgot the teal..!!:smile:

sox1970
09-09-2010, 02:49 PM
Twins are good folks, they are not going to just roll over in the playoffs because you want them too.

I'm aggravated by the Twins because I don't think they're this good. But once the playoffs start, I'll be rooting for them and the Rangers. I'd like to see the Yankees go home, and the Rays to lose because their park is crap and they have no fans. Now that the Twins are out of that dome, they aren't as unlikeable as they used to be...in my humble opinion.

soxfanatlanta
09-09-2010, 02:49 PM
Small sample size says hi.

I hope it stays that way; I don't want that head case in the 2011 lineup.

TheOldRoman
09-09-2010, 02:49 PM
Twins are good folks, they are not going to just roll over in the playoffs because you want them too.Why not? It's what they do. And their offense is improved this year, but their pitching staff is Lirano (who is going up against a better pitcher whether it's Price or Sabathia) followed by the smoke and mirrors of Pavano (who will be exposed come playoff time), followed by ??? Their pitching isn't very good.

TheOldRoman
09-09-2010, 02:50 PM
Yeah, just like last year. Oh....wait.Seriously, though. I think this is the year the Twins put it together and win a playoff game. All the pieces are in place.

GoGoCrede
09-09-2010, 02:51 PM
Seriously, though. I think this is the year the Twins put it together and win a playoff game. All the pieces are in place.

Love how you said "game" instead of "series." Whether it was intentional or not, made me laugh.

soxfanatlanta
09-09-2010, 02:51 PM
I'd like to see the Yankees go home, and the Rays to lose because they're park is crap and they have no fans.

:?:

'Cause it's players' fault they play in a state that does not care for baseball?

JB98
09-09-2010, 02:51 PM
... and? Lots of people underestimated this team. They have done this with Quentin being mostly awful, with AJ being mostly awful, Alexei doing nothing in April, Beckham struggling into June and with our vaunted pitching staff taking the first two months off.

And I can counter by saying Konerko had a career year. Vizquel was unexpectedly awesome. He turned back the clock 10 years. Rios has been just outstanding. For the first time in years, there is no black hole in CF. Santos came outta nowhere to pitch brilliantly in relief. Putz was outstanding when he was healthy. Did you have Garcia in double-digit wins? I'll bet you didn't.

Let's not act as if the whole team failed to meet expectations. There are some things that went right. There are some things that went wrong. From my perspective, the net result has been better than expected.

GoGoCrede
09-09-2010, 02:53 PM
:?:

'Cause it's players' fault they play in a state that does not care for baseball?

Agreed. I really like the Rays. It's really too bad that they play where they play. I love seeing another team in that division give the Yankees and Red Sox a run for their money.

BadBobbyJenks
09-09-2010, 02:53 PM
You think they're going to win the pennant?

You quoted my post, did I say that?

sox1970
09-09-2010, 02:54 PM
:?:

'Cause it's players' fault they play in a state that does not care for baseball?

Who said that? I don't root for dome teams.

FielderJones
09-09-2010, 02:54 PM
Twins are good folks, they are not going to just roll over in the playoffs because you want them too.

No, they're going to roll over in the playoffs because that's what they do.

TheOldRoman
09-09-2010, 02:54 PM
Love how you said "game" instead of "series." Whether it was intentional or not, made me laugh.It was not a typo. Getting their first playoff win since 2004 would a much deserved accomplishment for such a great organization.

asindc
09-09-2010, 02:55 PM
Just getting back to the computer after about two hours away. I was hoping to be surprised and not see any "it's over" talk, but alas... I've said all along that if the Twinkees do beat us out for the division title, it will be because their pitching has been better than expected when it matters most. Let's see how the next three weeks unfold before we pull a Dennis Green.

Red Barchetta
09-09-2010, 02:57 PM
Amazing that we go 7-4 on the road trip and lose 2.5 games in the standings. :scratch: Are the Twins really this good? I don't see it.

Hitmen77
09-09-2010, 02:59 PM
I'm aggravated by the Twins because I don't think they're this good. But once the playoffs start, I'll be rooting for them and the Rangers. I'd like to see the Yankees go home, and the Rays to lose because their park is crap and they have no fans. Now that the Twins are out of that dome, they aren't as unlikeable as they used to be...in my humble opinion.

That sounds like Cubs fans talking about the White Sox.

TheOldRoman
09-09-2010, 02:59 PM
And I can counter by saying Konerko had a career year. Vizquel was unexpectedly awesome. He turned back the clock 10 years. Rios has been just outstanding. For the first time in years, there is no black hole in CF. Santos came outta nowhere to pitch brilliantly in relief. Putz was outstanding when he was healthy. Did you have Garcia in double-digit wins? I'll bet you didn't.

Let's not act as if the whole team failed to meet expectations. There are some things that went right. There are some things that went wrong. From my perspective, the net result has been better than expected.I was with you all year on Garcia. Based on what he did last year I figured he would be able to give the Sox a good start 3/4 times. I didn't think he would last the whole year, but yes, I figured he would do well enough to win 10. I also was counting on Putz being this good because he was finally healthy. I obviously didn't know Santos would be this good, that Linebrink wouldn't be able to give us his normal good half-season, or that Teahen would show himself to not be the answer at 3B for the next few years. All in all, if this is it, we had fun and saw a few meaningful September games, but this was another year where the Sox underachieved. Another year where they more or less handed the Twins the division.

ChiSoxGirl
09-09-2010, 03:03 PM
The tragic number is now 17. Even if we sweep the Twins we have to rattle off another ten game winning streak and while I think we will go down fighting, I don't think we have any magic left. When you go 7-3 on a 10 game roadtrip and lose two games in the standings it's just not your year.

You got it. Let the funeral for the 2010 White Sox commence. :whiner:

I can't believe a 7-3 road trip could feel so bad.

Me neither! Ordinarily, we'd be over the moon about winning seven out of ten on a road trip, especially one that had us in Boston for three (two of which were played in the same day). However, things aren't "ordinary" because the rat bastards to the north are playing ridiculous baseball. It's like they forgot how to lose. I hate them now and I'll always hate them.

They don't win the division, fine. Just ****ing sweep the Twins next week and don't let those ****faces celebrate at the Cell.

This... a thousand times over. If they're going to win the division, let Baby Jesus & Co. celebrate elsewhere... like at their new ballpark.

Foulke You
09-09-2010, 03:03 PM
Our aces were horrible, but so were the bats. They just looked lifeless and it seemed like they wanted to get the **** out of there as fast as possible.

Brutal, brutal, brutal.
It was a complete team failure in Detroit in all aspects but the thing that drives me the most crazy about the Sox offense is their inability to make adjustments to starting pitchers. This team is very vulnerable to a pitcher that pounds the zone low with change ups and breaking pitches because every hitter tries to pull everything. All Bonderman and Porcello had to do was throw away, low, away, low, change, slider, change, curve and we had very quick 1-2-3 innings. You have guys like Tom Paciorek in the booth who hasn't seen the team all year going "gee whiz, why aren't they adjusting??!". This is a very good question that I don't have the answer to.

asindc
09-09-2010, 03:09 PM
You got it. Let the funeral for the 2010 White Sox commence. :whiner:



Me neither! Ordinarily, we'd be over the moon about winning seven out of ten on a road trip, especially one that had us in Boston for three (two of which were played in the same day). However, things aren't "ordinary" because the rat bastards to the north are playing ridiculous baseball. It's like they forgot how to lose. I hate them now and I'll always hate them.



This... a thousand times over. If they're going to win the division, let Baby Jesus & Co. celebrate elsewhere... like at their new ballpark.

No matter what happens between now and next Thursday night, the only thing they could possibly be celebrating then is their lead in the division.

TheOldRoman
09-09-2010, 03:11 PM
No matter what happens between now and next Thursday night, the only thing they could possibly be celebrating then is their lead in the division.Do the outfielders still do that little leaping butt bump thing after wins?

sox1970
09-09-2010, 03:12 PM
No matter what happens between now and next Thursday night, the only thing they could possibly be celebrating then is their lead in the division.

I hope the Twins clinch at a hotel in Detroit, watching the Sox lose at 1am in Anaheim on September 25.

downstairs
09-09-2010, 03:14 PM
I can't give up yet only because we could sweep Minny.

If we do that, we need to make up 3 games over 20 non-Minny games. Technically possible.

Lip Man 1
09-09-2010, 03:18 PM
They still have what 22 games left? Win ten or so and have a nice season with 87-88 wins.

Lip

hawkjt
09-09-2010, 03:22 PM
I can't give up yet only because we could sweep Minny.

If we do that, we need to make up 3 games over 20 non-Minny games. Technically possible.

I aint giving up....not til the clock runs out. Baseball is a funny game.
Padres just lost ten games in a row.
Twins look invincible,but they could lose ten in a row also...
Sox need to win 8 games minimum on this homestand...and all three vs the Twins.
Twins face the best starters the Tribe can throw out there...they need to lose a couple in Cleveland,get swept by the Twins,then lose another game or more in Det.

Sox have hit the ball better this year overall. Last year they finished dead last in hitting at .258, and this year they are 4th in hitting at .271.
I would never have predicted that in April and May..
Thing about the AL Central...4 of the top 5 hitting teams in the AL are in the Central..Twins,KC,tigers and Sox.

LITTLE NELL
09-09-2010, 03:28 PM
I was hoping for a 6-4 trip, we go 7-3 and are just about out of it.
Can't give up yet, stranger things have happenned.

SI1020
09-09-2010, 03:31 PM
It is always good to have hope, but we need to be realistic. Way too far back with such a short time to go. And to be outscored 20-6 in three games against a team like Detroit only shows that the season is over. I am not even thinking about any possible scenarios about how the team might have a chance. They don't have one.

This has not been a great year for Floyd. He shows some brillance at times and then tanks it for a few starts. Needed something excellent from him today and it didn't happen. There has to be some serious evaluation of this team at year's end. I've hoped that Floyd and/or Danks would step up and be dominant. It's not happening.

Dan H
09-09-2010, 03:31 PM
I aint giving up....not til the clock runs out. Baseball is a funny game.
Padres just lost ten games in a row.
Twins look invincible,but they could lose ten in a row also...
Sox need to win 8 games minimum on this homestand...and all three vs the Twins.
Twins face the best starters the Tribe can throw out there...they need to lose a couple in Cleveland,get swept by the Twins,then lose another game or more in Det.

Sox have hit the ball better this year overall. Last year they finished dead last in hitting at .258, and this year they are 4th in hitting at .271.
I would never have predicted that in April and May..
Thing about the AL Central...4 of the top 5 hitting teams in the AL are in the Central..Twins,KC,tigers and Sox.

Don't torture yourself like this. Don't do it. Just don't do it.

Craig Grebeck
09-09-2010, 03:33 PM
Flowers, Morel, and De Aza rest of the way.

captain54
09-09-2010, 03:35 PM
I'm not trying to bum anyone out anymore than they already are, but just wanted to show how funny baseball can be.

After all the drama this season, the incredible run during the summer and the recent 7 game streak...

The Sox have only gained 3.5 games in the standings since June 9

SI1020
09-09-2010, 03:37 PM
I don't think the season is over. But I don't see an improvement in the offense with a full-time, "professional" DH. Of course not. Some one that can hit well will never improve a team's offense.

sox1970
09-09-2010, 03:37 PM
I'm not trying to bum anyone out anymore than they already are, but just wanted to show how funny baseball can be.

After all the drama this season, the incredible run during the summer and the recent 7 game streak...

The Sox have only gained 3.5 games in the standings since June 9

Yes, because our 38-13 stretch was nearly matched by the Twins current 37-14 stretch. What can you do? :shrug:

asindc
09-09-2010, 03:37 PM
Flowers, Morel, and De Aza rest of the way.

Those who have followed some of my posts know that I'm not among the "Fire >>insert person in management of your choice<<" crowd, but if Guillen made that decision this early, I would sincerely want him fired.

LoveYourSuit
09-09-2010, 03:38 PM
They still have what 22 games left? Win ten or so and have a nice season with 87-88 wins.

Lip


Lip,

You keep saying this and I don't care for it.

I would rather lose 100 games than lose the division playing .500 plus baseball. Especially with a $100 million + payroll.


"Winning Seasons" does nothing for me.

asindc
09-09-2010, 03:40 PM
Lip,

You keep saying this and I don't care for it.

I would rather lose 100 games than lose the division playing .500 plus baseball. Especially with a $100 million + payroll.


"Winning Seasons" does nothing for me.

You should really have a good discussion with Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Kansas City, and Washington fans. You might see it differently afterwards.

doublem23
09-09-2010, 03:44 PM
You should really have a good discussion with Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Kansas City, and Washington fans. You might see it differently afterwards.

Seriously.

Its frustrating for the year to fizzle out like this, but we played meaningful games into September. There's 15-20 teams that would trade spots with us right now.

102605
09-09-2010, 03:44 PM
Do we get draft picks for Manny?

TheOldRoman
09-09-2010, 03:48 PM
Flowers, Morel, and De Aza rest of the way.If we aren't within 4 after the Twins series, sure. Not yet, though.

LoveYourSuit
09-09-2010, 03:50 PM
You should really have a good discussion with Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Kansas City, and Washington fans. You might see it differently afterwards.


None of those teams mentioned are expected to compete nor tossing the kind of money we toss around for medicore results.


I'm very upset at the way this thing is going to finish. You cannot tell me that with the starting rotations we have had the last 2 seasons we cannot beat out the Twins.

Or perhaps our SPs are overrated? Maybe they are, I guess. Maybe we expect Danks and Gavin to be #1s and #2s but the best they can be are 3s and 4s.

Lip Man 1
09-09-2010, 03:52 PM
Love:

Just wondering how many teams have payrolls in the 90-95-low 100 million range today or above?

It may be "fairly" common in MLB now so I think your point about the size of the payroll may not carry the same weight as it did say ten years ago.

I didn't say I was happy about the way things turned out but considering they were nine under in May and it looked like U.S. Cellular Field would be a ghost town (seriously damaging the potential payroll of the next few years...) this summer, I'm satisfied all things considered with 87-88 wins.

Having lived through 1968 through 1970, 1973 through 1976, 1978 through 1980, 1986 through 1989 and 1995 through 1999, you're damn right I'll take a winning season.

As others have pointed out you can do a hell of a lot worse than eight winning seasons and three playoff appearances in the last 11 years.

That doesn't mean especially after 2005 that the organization nor the fan base should accept that as the standard but it sure beats the alternative.

Just my opinion.

Lip

tstrike2000
09-09-2010, 03:56 PM
Well, hopefully Ozzie and the guys will at least have some fun watching the playoffs from their sofas.

Lip Man 1
09-09-2010, 03:57 PM
Love:

The Sox can't beat the Twins as you put it because Minnesota plays the game much better than the Sox do. They execute better when they have to, the play the fundamentals better than the Sox and to me, more importantly, they are tougher mentally by a longshot than the Sox are.

I never seem to see "excuses" from players and coaches in Minnesota that it's to cold, or they've never seen this pitcher before or we've got time. They play with energy from day one through the end.

Talent is crucial no doubt, you have to have it and both teams do, but the "little things" add up over a 162 game season and in the end Minnesota is able to use those "details" "small things" to a great advantage over the Sox.

Lip

TheOldRoman
09-09-2010, 03:57 PM
None of those teams mentioned are expected to compete nor tossing the kind of money we toss around for medicore results.


I'm very upset at the way this thing is going to finish. You cannot tell me that with the starting rotations we have had the last 2 seasons we cannot beat out the Twins.

Or perhaps our SPs are overrated? Maybe they are, I guess. Maybe we expect Danks and Gavin to be #1s and #2s but the best they can be are 3s and 4s.That isn't true. Both of them have the talent to be aces. So far they have shown flashes of brilliance and pitched poorly at other times. Regardless, even if Danks doesn't take the next step and goes into free agency after two more seasons like this one, he will still get a contract worth over $100 million.

DirtySox
09-09-2010, 03:58 PM
Do we get draft picks for Manny?

If the Sox are crazy enough to offer him arbitration and he is crazy enough to decline it.

LoveYourSuit
09-09-2010, 04:00 PM
Love:

The Sox can't beat the Twins as you put it because Minnesota plays the game much better than the Sox do. They execute better when they have to, the play the fundamentals better than the Sox and to me, more importantly, they are tougher mentally by a longshot than the Sox are.

I never seem to see "excuses" from players and coaches in Minnesota that it's to cold, or they've never seen this pitcher before or we've got time. They play with energy from day one through the end.

Talent is crucial no doubt, you have to have it and both teams do, but the "little things" add up over a 162 game season and in the end Minnesota is able to use those "details" "small things" to a great advantage over the Sox.

Lip

I guess then we have a coaching/management issues.

Lip Man 1
09-09-2010, 04:07 PM
Love:

I think that's a good point. As I've often asked in my interviews, how is it that the Sox talk about the "Twins-way" seemingly year after year but when the season starts, nothing seems to change? (and that includes the minor league philosophy as well...)

The Sox have brought in numerous players over just the past four years, yet they have trouble getting key hits, catching the ball, scoring with less than two out and a guy on 3rd, advancing runners over, the hit and run, the run and hit, bunting etc.

As I've often said, are the players simply "baseball" stupid or is the coaching staff unable to teach these things? I've never got an answer, most of the type the subject responds with "that's a good question..."

Lip

WhiteSoxFTW
09-09-2010, 04:15 PM
Love:

The Sox can't beat the Twins as you put it because Minnesota plays the game much better than the Sox do. They execute better when they have to, the play the fundamentals better than the Sox and to me, more importantly, they are tougher mentally by a longshot than the Sox are.

I never seem to see "excuses" from players and coaches in Minnesota that it's to cold, or they've never seen this pitcher before or we've got time. They play with energy from day one through the end.

Talent is crucial no doubt, you have to have it and both teams do, but the "little things" add up over a 162 game season and in the end Minnesota is able to use those "details" "small things" to a great advantage over the Sox.

Lip

I think that a few comments from veterans players who are new to the team or were with the team a short time speak to that effect. Think of the comments Orlando Cabrera made about the losing attitude/mood in the locker room. Didn't he say something comparing the locker room to a funeral after a single loss? Juan Pierre made a remark (without realizing what he said) this year during the streak about them finally being happy, or something to that effect (*I wish I could find the exact comment he made*).

It seems to be that there were some players in that locker room in 2008 and in early 2010 that contribute to that mentality.

asindc
09-09-2010, 04:17 PM
I think that a few comments from veterans players who are new to the team or were with the team a short time speak to that effect. Think of the comments Orlando Cabrera made about the losing attitude/mood in the locker room. Didn't he say something comparing the locker room to a funeral after a single loss? Juan Pierre made a remark (without realizing what he said) this year during the streak about them finally being happy, or something to that effect (*I wish I could find the exact comment he made*).

It seems to be that there were some players in that locker room in 2008 and in early 2010 that contribute to that mentality.

Much like a postgame loss thread on WSI...

slavko
09-09-2010, 04:18 PM
They can beat the NL. Calls for realignment. Wouldya take back Clayton Richard and Hudson and the money to spend elsewhere Right About Now? Kenny is all in on every hand, but he's playing poker with someone else's money. I wouldn't want him running my business. Not if I had any concern for tomorrow.

TheOldRoman
09-09-2010, 04:22 PM
I think that a few comments from veterans players who are new to the team or were with the team a short time speak to that effect. Think of the comments Orlando Cabrera made about the losing attitude/mood in the locker room. Didn't he say something comparing the locker room to a funeral after a single loss? Juan Pierre made a remark (without realizing what he said) this year during the streak about them finally being happy, or something to that effect (*I wish I could find the exact comment he made*).

It seems to be that there were some players in that locker room in 2008 and in early 2010 that contribute to that mentality.I believe Cabrera's comment was that the clubhouse felt like a morgue in general during losing streaks and that the team had the attitude that it was already defeated when they got to the ballpark.

soxlady8
09-09-2010, 04:26 PM
JB98 said this ----
And I can counter by saying Konerko had a career year. Vizquel was unexpectedly awesome. He turned back the clock 10 years. Rios has been just outstanding. For the first time in years, there is no black hole in CF. Santos came outta nowhere to pitch brilliantly in relief. Putz was outstanding when he was healthy. Did you have Garcia in double-digit wins? I'll bet you didn't.

Let's not act as if the whole team failed to meet expectations. There are some things that went right. There are some things that went wrong. From my perspective, the net result has been better than expected.

great reading , I feel the same way -
I do wave my white flag . I said at 6 games out it was over (well at least in my mind ). The Twins are good. They played well against the Rangers not so long ago. I don't underestimate them at all these days-

KMcMahon817
09-09-2010, 04:33 PM
The tragic number is now 17. Even if we sweep the Twins we have to rattle off another ten game winning streak and while I think we will go down fighting, I don't think we have any magic left. When you go 7-3 on a 10 game roadtrip and lose two games in the standings it's just not your year.

Yeah, it hurts. I am not one to ever give up if there is a statistical chance, but man, 6 back is not good with 22 to go.

However, with the Twins still ahead on the schedule, it is not impossible. Picking up a game in the standings this weekend and sweeping the Twins next week gives this team a pulse. Please SOX????

WhiteSoxFTW
09-09-2010, 04:33 PM
I believe Cabrera's comment was that the clubhouse felt like a morgue in general during losing streaks and that the team had the attitude that it was already defeated when they got to the ballpark.

I have been searching and I found some comments he made to the Score on 9/24/08. He talks about how they "hoped" to win ballgames, not came out there as winners that expected to win.

I know he said stuff after the season, too. But, for the life of me, I cannot find it. I am still looking for Juan Pierre's comments as well.

Joliet_Sox
09-09-2010, 04:43 PM
62-60 against the AL just wont cut it. Im not ready to get off the rollercoaster just yet, as stranger things have happened. However, if Danks doesn't set the tone on Tuesday and get the win then Im throwing in the towel.

LoveYourSuit
09-09-2010, 04:51 PM
So basically we have to win the next 6 games and hope the Twins lose 1 in Cleveleand and our 3?

That puts us at 2 games out which is manageable.

Anything more than 3 games out after the Twins leave town, put a fork in us.

What sucks is that momentum has been killed, watch these KC games not draw well. Come on Sox fans, let's get our asses out there!!!

Dibbs
09-09-2010, 04:57 PM
I never believed in this team for a minute. They have had a much better year than I expected. Let's just make sure we go ahead and get a DH this offseason. Oh, and let's also make sure Mark Kotsay never wears a White Sox uniform again.

Madvora
09-09-2010, 05:01 PM
Geeze. I didn't even know they were playing this afternoon.
I wasn't going to watch anyway.

JB98
09-09-2010, 05:16 PM
I was with you all year on Garcia. Based on what he did last year I figured he would be able to give the Sox a good start 3/4 times. I didn't think he would last the whole year, but yes, I figured he would do well enough to win 10. I also was counting on Putz being this good because he was finally healthy. I obviously didn't know Santos would be this good, that Linebrink wouldn't be able to give us his normal good half-season, or that Teahen would show himself to not be the answer at 3B for the next few years. All in all, if this is it, we had fun and saw a few meaningful September games, but this was another year where the Sox underachieved. Another year where they more or less handed the Twins the division.

I just can't agree with you on this. Nobody, except maybe a few Kool-Aid drinkers (and Ken Rosenthal), had this team winning the division. Most people had this team between 75 and 85 wins. The Sox were a consensus third-place pick entering the season.

During spring training, I was ready to murder Kenny Williams for leaving this lineup two bats short. A 38-12 run midseason and meaningful games into September? That's more than I hoped for. By the second week in April, I was convinced this was going to be a bad team and people were going to get fired.

At least I had some fun following the team this summer. I really thought it was going to be miserable. If you had higher expectations, that's your right. But I feel like I got my money's worth this year.

happydude
09-09-2010, 05:41 PM
I definitely feel as if I got my money's worth, too, particularly given how things seemed going into June.

In the past, I've felt that we were kind of soft and quick to tuck tail; this year I'm proud of the way the team has continued to pick itself off the mat.

We're probably going to win 90 plus games and that's a good year given a roster filled, mostly, with past their prime name players and young players who have yet to reveal what we can reasonably expect from them.

That being said, I have no intention of throwing in the towel with a mere 20 something games left and the possibility of halving this deficit next week. Better teams than the Twins have felt the sting of a late season tank job.

Foulke You
09-09-2010, 05:45 PM
I think that's a good point. As I've often asked in my interviews, how is it that the Sox talk about the "Twins-way" seemingly year after year but when the season starts, nothing seems to change?

This year, the "Twins-way" is mashing the baseball out of the park or slamming it into the huge gaps at Target Field. Other than maybe Orlando Hudson or Denard Span, they don't do the "little things" on offense anymore. The Twins play an AL style offense in the new ballpark. Kubel, Cuddyer, Thome, Hardy, Morneau, etc. are all power hitters. The Twins still have great defense and are getting way more out of that starting rotation than they should but the biggest difference in the offense is that the Twins out slugged the White Sox this year and are no longer the small team from the Metrodome all those years ago. The Sox started the year a bat or two short and it really cost them some games in April and May and a handful in August. It's unfortunate but I'm sure KW won't make the same mistake in 2011. If they keep this rotation intact and add more to the lineup, we should be in contention again next year.

MARTINMVP
09-09-2010, 06:20 PM
Things really went downhill beginning at that series in Baltimore, back in the 2nd week of August, I believe it was. There were a few significant losses, about a week before the 7 game winning streak where I thought I was ready to throw in the towel.

I wouldn't be shocked if the Sox lost 2 out of 3 to the Royals this weekend, and if that happens, I won't have much reason for optimism against the Twins afterwards. Hell, there isn't much reason for optimism at this point.

That said, I have a few ounces of hope that the Sox can somehow steamroll against the Twins next week, and hope that the Twins finally hit their wall. They are due for a good losing streak. If the Sox can win consistently afterwards, there might be a chance.

I might be setting up myself for more unnecessary grief next week, since my logic of hope essentially is as good as pulling a rabbit out of a hat. I'll brace myself for such emotions next week. If the Sox fail to win the series or sweep the Twins, I will be ready to call it a season.

KMcMahon817
09-09-2010, 07:06 PM
They still have what 22 games left? Win ten or so and have a nice season with 87-88 wins.

Lip


Ahhhh hahahahaahhahaha.

soxtalker
09-09-2010, 07:39 PM
Love:

I think that's a good point. As I've often asked in my interviews, how is it that the Sox talk about the "Twins-way" seemingly year after year but when the season starts, nothing seems to change? (and that includes the minor league philosophy as well...)

The Sox have brought in numerous players over just the past four years, yet they have trouble getting key hits, catching the ball, scoring with less than two out and a guy on 3rd, advancing runners over, the hit and run, the run and hit, bunting etc.

As I've often said, are the players simply "baseball" stupid or is the coaching staff unable to teach these things? I've never got an answer, most of the type the subject responds with "that's a good question..."

Lip

It does seem strange to me that they haven't been able or willing to set up some sort of uniform "culture" throughout the entire organization including the minor league system like the Twins. On the other hand, the minor league system has mostly been used to obtain players from other teams, so perhaps it wouldn't even been noticed much.

mcsoxfan
09-09-2010, 07:41 PM
Outside of the 7 game winning streak, the August and September White Sox looked a lot like the April-May Sox... Rough starts by our pitchers, crap defense, and a lack of hitting. June and July were definitely a treat, but my optimism is wearing razor thin... Stick a fork in the 2010 White Sox, they are pretty much done... Cue another first round exit by the Twits... Ugh!

Maybe Ozzie will realize the end is near and start getting some extra time in for the youngsters such as Viciedo, Morel, etc. Maybe it wouldn't hurt to throw Sale out there for a start (for Freddy), time to get this club ready for next year...

It was a fun season no doubt though, just wish the Twins would have learned how to lose the last few weeks.

I hope the end is near for him. I surely won't miss the wasting three bullpen arms to get a 9 outs.

mcsoxfan
09-09-2010, 07:50 PM
They still have what 22 games left? Win ten or so and have a nice season with 87-88 wins.

Lip

But this is why we continue to have mediocre teams . Because the fans consider 87-88 wins a nice season. If this was the nationals or some expansion team fine. The Chicago White Sox are a charter member of the American League. In a market this big, they should be consistently contending to get to the series. But we continue to let ownership get away with it all these years except for one when all the stars aligned.

The White Sox should be an elite major baseball team and they are not but we don't hold ownership accountable. We just criticize the fans who do.

guillensdisciple
09-09-2010, 08:10 PM
Talented team that does not play to its potential. Simple as that. Danks and Gavin are good, but one should be traded for a good option as a hitter. They will not be the aces we will be looking for. A good 3 and 4 on a ace like staff for sure, but they just can't close the deal.

Twins are far less talented, their management gets the most out of their teams. We are more talented and our teams fade like always. It's a shame that it has come to this, because this team could be really damn good. I guess it's time to see another Minnesota misrepresentation in the playoffs.

soltrain21
09-09-2010, 08:12 PM
Talented team that does not play to its potential. Simple as that. Danks and Gavin are good, but one should be traded for a good option as a hitter. They will not be the aces we will be looking for. A good 3 and 4 on a ace like staff for sure, but they just can't close the deal.

Twins are far less talented, their management gets the most out of their teams. We are more talented and our teams fade like always. It's a shame that it has come to this, because this team could be really damn good. I guess it's time to see another Minnesota misrepresentation in the playoffs.

How are the Twins far less talented? They have hitters that go to all fields, make productive outs, and, oh yeah, have a top three hitter in the game.

They have a solid bullpen and, as much as people wanted to hate their starters, they've had a good year.

captain54
09-09-2010, 08:15 PM
. If they keep this rotation intact and add more to the lineup, we should be in contention again next year.

if the closer situation isn't addressed, we won't contend...bottom line

sox1970
09-09-2010, 08:18 PM
if the closer situation isn't addressed, we won't contend...bottom line

Re-sign Putz. I think a back end of Santos, Thornton, and Putz is good enough.

guillensdisciple
09-09-2010, 08:28 PM
How are the Twins far less talented? They have hitters that go to all fields, make productive outs, and, oh yeah, have a top three hitter in the game.

They have a solid bullpen and, as much as people wanted to hate their starters, they've had a good year.

They're really not that great besides the Mauer, Morneau, and Young. everyone else seems to be a player that Gardenhire has transormed.

As for their pitching Liriano and Pavano are it, and God knows where the hell Pavano got his talent back from. Come on man, Liriano is their only real talent. Duensing sucked, Baker sucked, Slowey sucked but he gets everything out of them.

Their bullpen is good when Nathan is in there, but how do you get the best out of Rauch and some of the other names there besides Guerrier?

We have our annual bullpen implosion with solid Relievers like Putz, Santos, Thornton, and Jenks.

We have our starting pitching implode at the beginning of the year, and young talents like Danks and Floyd show nothing in situations where we ABSOLUTELY need them (no blackout bring in, they've done poorly for us for the past month except for that Boston series).

Peavy pitched poorly, Mark pitched poorly, Floyd pitched poorly at the beginning.

our hitting, well, I don't have to explain that. Nothing out of Pierre, Quentin, Ramirez, Beckham. etc.

Something's completely off with this team and its use of talent.

soltrain21
09-09-2010, 08:35 PM
They're really not that great besides the Mauer, Morneau, and Young. everyone else seems to be a player that Gardenhire has transormed.

As for their pitching Liriano and Pavano are it, and God knows where the hell Pavano got his talent back from. Come on man, Liriano is their only real talent. Duensing sucked, Baker sucked, Slowey sucked but he gets everything out of them.

Their bullpen is good when Nathan is in there, but how do you get the best out of Rauch and some of the other names there besides Guerrier?

We have our annual bullpen implosion with solid Relievers like Putz, Santos, Thornton, and Jenks.

We have our starting pitching implode at the beginning of the year, and young talents like Danks and Floyd show nothing in situations where we ABSOLUTELY need them (no blackout bring in, they've done poorly for us for the past month except for that Boston series).

Peavy pitched poorly, Mark pitched poorly, Floyd pitched poorly at the beginning.

our hitting, well, I don't have to explain that. Nothing out of Pierre, Quentin, Ramirez, Beckham. etc.

Something's completely off with this team and its use of talent.

So you are saying he has a bunch of bad players that somehow play well for him? That...doesn't make sense.

guillensdisciple
09-09-2010, 08:40 PM
So you are saying he has a bunch of bad players that somehow play well for him? That...doesn't make sense.


Oh no no no, I mean we're more talented and under perform. He has a good team but I don't think they should be playing as well as they are, or we should play better than we are.

Mohoney
09-09-2010, 08:42 PM
Twins are good folks, they are not going to just roll over in the playoffs because you want them too.

Both Tampa Bay and New York are better and will beat them in either 3 or 4 games. Maybe Liriano wins a game, but that's it.

Noneck
09-09-2010, 08:42 PM
Re-sign Putz

He may be demanding a Linebrink type contract. I doubt he will settle for for a 1yr 3m deal like this year.

Bob Roarman
09-09-2010, 08:53 PM
So you are saying he has a bunch of bad players that somehow play well for him? That...doesn't make sense.

No, no, no, you're missing the point. Besides their two MVP caliber players (one of which has missed half the season) and ace in Liriano and one of the best closers in the game (who hasn't pitched almost the entire year) the Sox are totally better!

Totally! And without A-Rod and Tex and Cano they're better than the Yankees too. And the Rays without Crawford, Longoria and Price!

bunty_doghunter
09-09-2010, 08:54 PM
Oh no no no, I mean we're more talented and under perform. He has a good team but I don't think they should be playing as well as they are, or we should play better than we are.
If you are correct, Ozzy is the problem.

Rdy2PlayBall
09-09-2010, 08:54 PM
He may be demanding a Linebrink type contract. I doubt he will settle for for a 1yr 3m deal like this year.Possibly if all the crap at the end of the season didn't happen... I think he has really lowered his value this last month and a half.

guillensdisciple
09-09-2010, 09:09 PM
No, no, no, you're missing the point. Besides their two MVP caliber players (one of which has missed half the season) and ace in Liriano and one of the best closers in the game (who hasn't pitched almost the entire year) the Sox are totally better!

Totally! And without A-Rod and Tex and Cano they're better than the Yankees too. And the Rays without Crawford, Longoria and Price!

LOL! If only that's what I was saying.

Mauer has been the pnly MVP caliber performer on their team, and they have one staff ace. The Sox have one MVP caliber (KOnerko), and some good back up.

I think you're forgetting that the Twins have done their damage without Morneau. Also, the ace has been missing, and we have four ace like pitchers going who are as talented as Liriano. Hmm, I think my point is pretty clear. Gardhenhire just maxed his team out, even after all the injuries, while we have maintained a low level of performance.

You can put that crap in my mouth, but that's not even close to my point.

You're ****ting me if you honestly think the Twins starters and bullpen are better than ours, and you're ****ting me if you think their hitters are 423232 times better than ours (I am talking without Morneau). I'm saying that Gardenhire made use of them, our management did not.

boiker
09-09-2010, 09:13 PM
Congratulations Twins.

Bob Roarman
09-09-2010, 09:23 PM
No team is "that great" when compared to the Sox or almost any other team when at the start of your comparison you take out 2 or 3 of their best players like they don't count or something. It's pointless to even go on.

guillensdisciple
09-09-2010, 09:33 PM
No team is "that great" when compared to the Sox or almost any other team when at the start of your comparison you take out 2 or 3 of their best players like they don't count or something. It's pointless to even go on.


.... but they've been injured this year.

soltrain21
09-09-2010, 09:35 PM
.... but they've been injured this year.

And they've still been better than us.

Bob Roarman
09-09-2010, 10:30 PM
.... but they've been injured this year.

That's not the point, you're saying the Twins are not all that great no matter what besides this guy, this guy and that guy. And those just happen to be their best players and major strengths of the ball club. Turn around that argument and see how good the Sox look without Konerko (having his career year) or Rios or Danks/Floyd. It ain't pretty.

A. Cavatica
09-09-2010, 10:35 PM
If you are correct, Ozzy is the problem.

Ozzie is one of the problems.

Craig Grebeck
09-09-2010, 10:58 PM
There's nothing wrong with admitting the Twins are more talented.

Lip Man 1
09-09-2010, 11:00 PM
MC:

You may have missed this earlier in the thread:

"I didn't say I was happy about the way things turned out but considering they were nine under in May and it looked like U.S. Cellular Field would be a ghost town (seriously damaging the potential payroll of the next few years...) this summer, I'm satisfied all things considered with 87-88 wins.

Having lived through 1968 through 1970, 1973 through 1976, 1978 through 1980, 1986 through 1989 and 1995 through 1999, you're damn right I'll take a winning season.

As others have pointed out you can do a hell of a lot worse than eight winning seasons and three playoff appearances in the last 11 years.

That doesn't mean especially after 2005 that the organization nor the fan base should accept that as the standard but it sure beats the alternative."

JB:

I posted this at the time but on the MLBN, six of their nine experts picked the Sox. Two said Detroit only Tom Verducchi picked the Twins and he was incredulous that he was the only one. I can't recall now who the six former player / analysist were that said the Sox.

Lip

Rdy2PlayBall
09-09-2010, 11:01 PM
There's nothing wrong with admitting the Twins are more talented.I couldn't agree more. The Sox didn't "give away" the season, they were outplayed. The Twins have won 19 of their last 22 games... that is outstanding.

JB98
09-09-2010, 11:02 PM
MC:

You may have missed this earlier in the thread:

"I didn't say I was happy about the way things turned out but considering they were nine under in May and it looked like U.S. Cellular Field would be a ghost town (seriously damaging the potential payroll of the next few years...) this summer, I'm satisfied all things considered with 87-88 wins.

Having lived through 1968 through 1970, 1973 through 1976, 1978 through 1980, 1986 through 1989 and 1995 through 1999, you're damn right I'll take a winning season.

As others have pointed out you can do a hell of a lot worse than eight winning seasons and three playoff appearances in the last 11 years.

That doesn't mean especially after 2005 that the organization nor the fan base should accept that as the standard but it sure beats the alternative."

JB:

I posted this at the time but on the MLBN, six of their nine experts picked the Sox. Two said Detroit only Tom Verducchi picked the Twins and he was incredulous that he was the only one. I can't recall now who the six former player / analysist were that said the Sox.

Lip

Hmmm. I don't doubt you on that, Lip. But I probably read 6-8 different preview publications, and they ALL picked the Twins.

Craig Grebeck
09-09-2010, 11:03 PM
LOL! If only that's what I was saying.

Mauer has been the pnly MVP caliber performer on their team, and they have one staff ace. The Sox have one MVP caliber (KOnerko), and some good back up.

I think you're forgetting that the Twins have done their damage without Morneau. Also, the ace has been missing, and we have four ace like pitchers going who are as talented as Liriano. Hmm, I think my point is pretty clear. Gardhenhire just maxed his team out, even after all the injuries, while we have maintained a low level of performance.

You can put that crap in my mouth, but that's not even close to my point.

You're ****ting me if you honestly think the Twins starters and bullpen are better than ours, and you're ****ting me if you think their hitters are 423232 times better than ours (I am talking without Morneau). I'm saying that Gardenhire made use of them, our management did not.
I chuckled.

VMSNS
09-10-2010, 12:14 AM
Well, the Sox go out with barely a wimper. It would have been nice to at least go down with guns blazing, but I guess this is what happens when you can't hit 90mph fastballs right down the pipe against Cy Porcello. I commend our team for playing hard during the summer months and doing their best to get to the postseason, but sometimes it's just not meant to be. Going 7-3 on a roadtrip and losing ground just goes to show what we're up against.

The Twinkies are a good team. They have one of the strongest lineups in the AL, but to me, their pitching is just good enough to get by for now. Their luck is bound to change sometime soon. I must admit, it's going to be wonderful watching as the Twins get crushed in the first round of the playoffs.

Overall, it's been a disappointing season for me. The team had so much potential. Unfortunately, they just underperformed way too much during the beginning and now the end of the season. Their performance against garbage teams like KC, Cleveland, and Baltimore was vomit-inducing, and really says a lot about this team's mental stability. Hopefully next season we will address the gaping holes at 3B, RF, and DH and finally put together a great season.

It has now been 5 seasons since the Sox won the WS in 2005. In those 5 seasons, the Sox have made the playoffs once, and that was on the last game of the season. It's time for a new plan, White Sox, because the current one clearly isn't working. It's time to start pointing fingers and holding some people accountable, including Ozzie, Kenny, Walker, the players, or whoever it may be.

Hitmen77
09-10-2010, 08:01 AM
LOL! If only that's what I was saying.

Mauer has been the pnly MVP caliber performer on their team, and they have one staff ace. The Sox have one MVP caliber (KOnerko), and some good back up.

I think you're forgetting that the Twins have done their damage without Morneau. Also, the ace has been missing, and we have four ace like pitchers going who are as talented as Liriano. Hmm, I think my point is pretty clear. Gardhenhire just maxed his team out, even after all the injuries, while we have maintained a low level of performance.



Can we please stop saying this? :gah:

I like Danks and Floyd and I'm glad that they're in our rotation. They are solid starting pitchers. But, I'm sorry, they are not "aces". At times, when they are on a roll, they pitch like aces. But they don't sustain this over the long haul. They didn't pitch like "aces" in 3 games vs. the Twins (6 game swing in the standings) when it really, really mattered.

I love that Mark Buehrle is a member of the Sox rotation, but he's not an ace either.

SI1020
09-10-2010, 08:49 AM
Can we please stop saying this? :gah:

I like Danks and Floyd and I'm glad that they're in our rotation. They are solid starting pitchers. But, I'm sorry, they are not "aces". At times, when they are on a roll, they pitch like aces. But they don't sustain this over the long haul. They didn't pitch like "aces" in 3 games vs. the Twins (6 game swing in the standings) when it really, really mattered.

I love that Mark Buehrle is a member of the Sox rotation, but he's not an ace either. I agree. The Sox don't have any SP better than a #3 in a solid rotation.

TheOldRoman
09-10-2010, 08:51 AM
I agree. The Sox don't have any SP better than a #3 in a solid rotation.That is utterly ridiculous. Name a rotation with three pitchers better than any of the Sox. If you had said a great rotation, that would be questionable, but "solid"? Give me a break.

Craig Grebeck
09-10-2010, 08:54 AM
That is just ridiculous. Name a rotation with three pitchers better than any of the Sox.
Edit: misread the OP.

doublem23
09-10-2010, 09:04 AM
I agree. The Sox don't have any SP better than a #3 in a solid rotation.

John Danks is 9th in the AL in WAR for pitchers.

Law11
09-10-2010, 09:29 AM
pretty simple. lose like we do in our division and the twins win like they do in our division and that sums it up.

palehozenychicty
09-10-2010, 09:48 AM
I'm aggravated by the Twins because I don't think they're this good. But once the playoffs start, I'll be rooting for them and the Rangers. I'd like to see the Yankees go home, and the Rays to lose because their park is crap and they have no fans. Now that the Twins are out of that dome, they aren't as unlikeable as they used to be...in my humble opinion.

The Twins never build a team that's good enough to win in the postseason. I will not root for them. Ever.

SI1020
09-10-2010, 09:49 AM
That is utterly ridiculous. Name a rotation with three pitchers better than any of the Sox. If you had said a great rotation, that would be questionable, but "solid"? Give me a break. What's ridiculous? Was Peavy an ace before he got hurt? Sure he was getting there but his performance was not ace worthy. Buehrle is my favorite player on the Sox and he's had a noteworthy career but at this point he's about a #3. Floyd and Danks have shown signs of taking a step up to real stardom but so far they've been way too inconsistent, and often don't show up in key games. Call me stupid if you like but but they are middle of the order at best. Freddie is what he, an aging veteran who gets by on guile and appears to be nearing the end of the line. I'm not ready to judge Jackson yet. I remember how Peavy got my hopes up with his three great starts at the end of last season. Who knows, maybe he'll end up being a true ace. As for other teams, a number of them have 2 or 3 starters better than any "ace" on the Sox. You want me to do a team by team analysis? Look at the leader board for AL pitchers. Danks is 9th in WAR for pitchers. He's also 9th in hits per 9 and IP. He must be the ace. Buehrle is 8th in walks per 9. Floyd is 9th in batters faced and home runs per 9 innings pitched. In a whole slew of categories there are no Sox pitchers in the top 10, I won't list them all but they include WAR, ERA, Adjusted ERA, wins, winning pct, strikeouts, CG's just to name a few. The Sox rotation is not a bad one, but it's not top of the line pennant worthy.

Craig Grebeck
09-10-2010, 09:50 AM
What's ridiculous? Was Peavy an ace before he got hurt? Sure he was getting there but his performance was not ace worthy. Buehrle is my favorite player on the Sox and he's had a noteworthy career but at this point he's about a #3. Floyd and Danks have shown signs of taking a step up to real stardom but so far they've been way too inconsistent, and often don't show up in key games. Call me stupid if you like but but they are middle of the order at best. Freddie is what he, an aging veteran who gets by on guile and appears to be nearing the end of the line. I'm not ready to judge Jackson yet. I remember how Peavy got my hopes up with his three great starts at the end of last season. Who knows, maybe he'll end up being a true ace. As for other teams, a number of them have 2 or 3 starters better than any "ace" on the Sox. You want me to do a team by team analysis? Look at the leader board for AL pitchers. Danks is 9th in WAR for pitchers. He's also 9th in hits per 9 and IP. He must be the ace. Buehrle is 8th in walks per 9. Floyd is 9th in batters faced and home runs per 9 innings pitched. In a whole slew of categories there are no Sox pitchers in the top 10, I won't list them all but they include WAR, ERA, Adjusted ERA, wins, winning pct, strikeouts, CG's just to name a few. The Sox rotation is not a bad one, but it's not top of the line pennant worthy.
Then name better ones. The rotation, especially with Peavy healthy, is damn good enough. A rotation full of twos and threes is good. Very good. They just need two things: better defense, better offense.

aryzner
09-10-2010, 10:00 AM
The Sox rotation is not a bad one, but it's not top of the line pennant worthy.
I strongly disagree with this statement. A full, healthy Sox rotation of Peavy, Buehrle, Danks, Floyd and Jackson easily has to be within the top 5 if not the top 3 in all of baseball.

Hitmen77
09-10-2010, 10:10 AM
Then name better ones. The rotation, especially with Peavy healthy, is damn good enough. A rotation full of twos and threes is good. Very good. They just need two things: better defense, better offense.

I agree. If Peavy is healthy next year and assuming none of the starters gets traded, then it might be tough to find a better overall rotation.

My previous post was responding to the idea that the Sox have "4 aces". I'm not aiming this at any one poster because I have heard several people here say this. I'm not big on who is a "#3" pitcher vs. who is a "#4" pitcher, but I just think it's silly to think we have 4 guys who are aces.

Craig Grebeck
09-10-2010, 10:12 AM
I agree. If Peavy is healthy next year and assuming none of the starters gets traded, then it might be tough to find a better overall rotation.

My previous post was responding to the idea that the Sox have "4 aces". I'm not aiming this at any one poster because I have heard several people here say this. I'm not big on who is a "#3" pitcher vs. who is a "#4" pitcher, but I just think it's silly to think we have 4 guys who are aces.
It's silly because people turn hating the Twins into an absurd fetish. Liriano is one of the top three or four pitchers in the American League, and easily better than anyone on the White Sox staff. There's no shame in admitting that.

asindc
09-10-2010, 10:13 AM
I agree. The Sox don't have any SP better than a #3 in a solid rotation.

With all due respect, this is an overreaction to the past three losses. No team has two pitchers better than Danks, with the exception of St. Louis, SF, and Texas for the time being with Lee and Wilson.

palehozenychicty
09-10-2010, 10:34 AM
The Sox need to improve certain position players and find a closer. The starters, when healthy, are good enough to win a division. They better be, since a lot of resources are allocated in that direction. It'd be easier to do this with a better farm system, but we need the bargain bins. Let's see.

TheOldRoman
09-10-2010, 10:58 AM
It's silly because people turn hating the Twins into an absurd fetish. Liriano is one of the top three or four pitchers in the American League, and easily better than anyone on the White Sox staff. There's no shame in admitting that.Woah there. I don't know how you can say he is "easily" better than anyone on the Sox when his numbers are very similar to Danks'. Danks' era is .3 higher, which is significant, although you said earlier that the Sox defense is poor, and a poor defense makes a pitcher give up more runs. Danks has less strikeouts, and we all know that strikeouts are somehow the end-all-be-all for pitchers while being meaningless for hitters. However, their ERA+ (which I'm sure you place value on) are pretty close and Danks has a lower WHIP. Floyd obviously has been better for stretches of time, but his inability to find his curve early in the season keep him from being a Cy Young contender. We saw what Peavy could do before he got injured, once they scrapped the tweaks Coop had suggested in ST and went back to his old delivery. Peavy, if healthy and settled a full season is a better pitcher than Liriano. My point is, you take things a little too far with this comment. The Sox have pitchers who are really close to Liriano.

soxfanatlanta
09-10-2010, 11:45 AM
I agree. If Peavy is healthy next year and assuming none of the starters gets traded, then it might be tough to find a better overall rotation.

Considering Peavy has missed substantial playing time due to injuries the past two years, I'm not willing to assume anything about his performance next year. I like our rotation going into next year, but I'm not drooling over them.

Bob Roarman
09-10-2010, 01:18 PM
It's silly because people turn hating the Twins into an absurd fetish. Liriano is one of the top three or four pitchers in the American League, and easily better than anyone on the White Sox staff. There's no shame in admitting that.

Hahaha, I think you finally found the phrase I was looking for to describe it. I just don't get that. I hate when they lose to the Twins but I don't have this deep instilled hatred of the team running through my veins. I can't hate a team because of the ballpark they play or, like someone else said, because they have no fans.

Craig Grebeck
09-10-2010, 03:12 PM
Woah there. I don't know how you can say he is "easily" better than anyone on the Sox when his numbers are very similar to Danks'. Danks' era is .3 higher, which is significant, although you said earlier that the Sox defense is poor, and a poor defense makes a pitcher give up more runs. Danks has less strikeouts, and we all know that strikeouts are somehow the end-all-be-all for pitchers while being meaningless for hitters. However, their ERA+ (which I'm sure you place value on) are pretty close and Danks has a lower WHIP. Floyd obviously has been better for stretches of time, but his inability to find his curve early in the season keep him from being a Cy Young contender. We saw what Peavy could do before he got injured, once they scrapped the tweaks Coop had suggested in ST and went back to his old delivery. Peavy, if healthy and settled a full season is a better pitcher than Liriano. My point is, you take things a little too far with this comment. The Sox have pitchers who are really close to Liriano.
I'm more concerned with Liriano's insane ability to suppress home runs. I'm not sure how sustainable that skill is over time (though I'd bet he will continue to be very, very good). But I will concede I didn't give Danks enough credit, and you are right to say that I took it a little too far.

Though the cheap shot regarding the difference between Ks for a batter and Ks for a hitter is way, way off the mark. I'm okay with a hitter who Ks a lot as long as he offsets it with a lot of walks. I'm not okay with a pitcher who Ks a lot of people, but also walks a ton too. Conversely, I'm okay with a pitcher who limits BBs and doesn't miss many bats (Mark Buehrle). And, finally, I'm not okay with pitchers who walk too many and don't have either a good K rate or a good groundball rate.

TheOldRoman
09-10-2010, 03:20 PM
I'm more concerned with Liriano's insane ability to suppress home runs. I'm not sure how sustainable that skill is over time (though I'd bet he will continue to be very, very good). But I will concede I didn't give Danks enough credit, and you are right to say that I took it a little too far.

Though the cheap shot regarding the difference between Ks for a batter and Ks for a hitter is way, way off the mark. I'm okay with a hitter who Ks a lot as long as he offsets it with a lot of walks. I'm not okay with a pitcher who Ks a lot of people, but also walks a ton too. Conversely, I'm okay with a pitcher who limits BBs and doesn't miss many bats (Mark Buehrle). And, finally, I'm not okay with pitchers who walk too many and don't have either a good K rate or a good groundball rate.The strikeouts comment wasn't necessarily directed at you. It is strange how a lot of people will salivate over bad to mediocre pitchers who dazzle every now and then (Vazquez, Burnett, Daniel Cabrera in the past) because they strike guys out, as if that is the best measure of a pitcher, while claiming that a hitter striking out is no big deal at all. As for K/BB for a hitter, it depends on the hitter. It was frustrating as hell to watch a struggling Swisher go up to the plate, knowing a walk was the only way he could get on at that point, and taking a meatball for strike three on a full count. That was a unique situation, but in that case I don't think the walks offset the Ks.

Craig Grebeck
09-10-2010, 03:26 PM
The strikeouts comment wasn't necessarily directed at you. It is strange how a lot of people will salivate over bad to mediocre pitchers who dazzle every now and then (Vazquez, Burnett, Daniel Cabrera in the past) because they strike guys out, as if that is the best measure of a pitcher, while claiming that a hitter striking out is no big deal at all. As for K/BB for a hitter, it depends on the hitter. It was frustrating as hell to watch a struggling Swisher go up to the plate, knowing a walk was the only way he could get on at that point, and taking a meatball for strike three. That was a unique situation, but in that case I don't think the walks offset the Ks.
Oh, of course. I gotcha. I never got the whole Burnett thing, and Daniel Cabrera was TOXIC. My feelings on Vazquez have been expressed time and again.

I agree re: Swisher. I don't think he's as bad as some think, but I'll concede that he's more likely than not to be mediocre than above average.

Re: K/BB for a hitter, I think it's really, really useful as a barometer for AA/AAA hitters. By the time guys are in MLB for a year or two, more often than not you pretty much know what they'll do K/BB wise (with the exception of a guy like Willits, whose fall off a cliff was easy to see coming).