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View Full Version : *Official* That sucked even more, Tigers 5, Sox 1 Postgame therapy thread


Frater Perdurabo
09-08-2010, 08:12 PM
Puke-tacular

GoGoCrede
09-08-2010, 08:12 PM
Go Royals.

God, this series has blown so far.

Chicken Dinner
09-08-2010, 08:13 PM
10 hits and 2 runs in 2 games ain't gonna cut it boys!

BNLSox
09-08-2010, 08:13 PM
Mark Teahan - go **** yourself.

Soxman219
09-08-2010, 08:14 PM
That was a fast sack of crap

hi im skot
09-08-2010, 08:14 PM
Bonderman pitched a solid game.

Note to Ozzie and KW: defense isn't overrated.

Frater Perdurabo
09-08-2010, 08:14 PM
Teahen is OK as a hitter, but he is contemptible, despicable and incompetent as a fielder.

And he's at third only because Beckham got drilled. This is what happens when you talk tough but never have your pitchers follow through, Ozzie. :angry:

hi im skot
09-08-2010, 08:15 PM
Teahen is OK as a hitter

Depends on how loose your definition of "hitter" is.

JB98
09-08-2010, 08:15 PM
As I was saying in the game thread, nearly all the good Sox teams I've witnessed in my lifetime have had good defense on the left side of the infield as a constant.

This club has had that for most of this year with Ramirez and Vizquel. Put Teahen over there and that goes away. We see the result tonight.

WhiteSox5187
09-08-2010, 08:15 PM
Mark Teahen has no business playing third base at a major league level. He's an atrocious third baseman and makes me long for the days of Josh Fields.

Frater Perdurabo
09-08-2010, 08:16 PM
Note to Ozzie and KW: defense isn't overrated.

Exactly.

Good defense may not win a division, but bad defense sure can piss it away.

WhiteSox5187
09-08-2010, 08:16 PM
Bonderman pitched a solid game.

Note to Ozzie and KW: defense isn't overrated.

Defense is a foreign concept to Kenny Williams.

tstrike2000
09-08-2010, 08:17 PM
Pitching and defense have been crap, but scoring 2 runs in 2 games is not gonna win crap anyway.

Frater Perdurabo
09-08-2010, 08:17 PM
Depends on how loose your definition of "hitter" is.

He's slightly better than league average as a hitter. Pretty good as a utility player for the bench. But not qualified to be a regular at any position for a contender.

yazz32
09-08-2010, 08:18 PM
Morel Time?

tstrike2000
09-08-2010, 08:19 PM
As I was saying in the game thread, nearly all the good Sox teams I've witnessed in my lifetime have had good defense on the left side of the infield as a constant.

This club has had that for most of this year with Ramirez and Vizquel. Put Teahen over there and that goes away. We see the result tonight.

Which is why hopefully Teahen goes back on the DL, even if it's for a hangnail.

Rdy2PlayBall
09-08-2010, 08:19 PM
Morel Time?Hopefully Beckham is back soon and we don't even have to worry about a 3B replacement.

hawkjt
09-08-2010, 08:19 PM
Put Lillibridge at 2nd tomorrow and Omar at third, until Gordo comes back.

Sox had a great string of double digit hits in like 15 of 16 games til last nite. Bonderman handled the Sox twice in a row now.

Damon and Cabrera out,and the Sox lose...not good.:o:

A. Cavatica
09-08-2010, 08:20 PM
Defense is a foreign concept to Kenny Williams.

Not true, he signed Vizquel for defense.

But he certainly blew the evaluation on Teahen. Teahen needs to be shipped out of town in an "our crap for your crap" deal. I wonder what we could get for him...

WhiteSox5187
09-08-2010, 08:21 PM
Pitching and defense have been crap, but scoring 2 runs in 2 games is not gonna win crap anyway.

I thought that Danks looked okay outside of a rough fourth where he gave up two earned runs and of course he would have been out of the inning if Teahen can make a throw to second. As for yesterday, I didn't check the box score today and I didn't get to see the game, but I thought it was more lousy defense that did us in.

LongLiveFisk
09-08-2010, 08:22 PM
Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue.

Rdy2PlayBall
09-08-2010, 08:22 PM
Not true, he signed Vizquel for defense.

But he certainly blew the evaluation on Teahen. Teahen needs to be shipped out of town in an "our crap for your crap" deal. I wonder what we could get for him...How about for Getz and Fields? They're pretty crappy. :tongue:
I think it might have been a good idea to hold off on the extension. Not much you can do about it now, but hope he improves, don't play him, or get rid of him.

WhiteSox5187
09-08-2010, 08:23 PM
Not true, he signed Vizquel for defense.

But he certainly blew the evaluation on Teahen. Teahen needs to be shipped out of town in an "our crap for your crap" deal. I wonder what we could get for him...

Vizquel was supposed to be a bench player, Teahen was supposed to be the guy at third. Kenny's teams (going back to the Manuel era) tend to ignore defense, I think he was even quoted as saying "I don't care if we come last in defense, we should be able to out hit our opponents," in 2002.

GoGoCrede
09-08-2010, 08:24 PM
Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue.

Hahaha!

hi im skot
09-08-2010, 08:25 PM
Vizquel was supposed to be a bench player, Teahen was supposed to be the guy at third. Kenny's teams (going back to the Manuel era) tend to ignore defense, I think he was even quoted as saying "I don't care if we come last in defense, we should be able to out hit our opponents," in 2002.

Southside Hitmen!

A. Cavatica
09-08-2010, 08:25 PM
Vizquel was supposed to be a bench player, Teahen was supposed to be the guy at third. Kenny's teams (going back to the Manuel era) tend to ignore defense, I think he was even quoted as saying "I don't care if we come last in defense, we should be able to out hit our opponents," in 2002.

True dat. But he also brought in Kotsay and Jones, who are the best fielding DH tandem in baseball history.

captain54
09-08-2010, 08:26 PM
this one is totally on Kenny Wiliams.

I pray to God I never see Teahan at 3rd in a Chicago White Sox uniform this year....or maybe ever....

tstrike2000
09-08-2010, 08:27 PM
I thought that Danks looked okay outside of a rough fourth where he gave up two earned runs and of course he would have been out of the inning if Teahen can make a throw to second. As for yesterday, I didn't check the box score today and I didn't get to see the game, but I thought it was more lousy defense that did us in.

No, Danks wasn't that bad. Defense and offense were murder tonight.

BNLSox
09-08-2010, 08:28 PM
Twinks got to Greinke and now lead 3-1. Looks like with a 7-2 road trip so far we will have LOST ground. I pray KC learns how to hit in the next few innings.

I'm stepping towards the ledge now . . .

Soxman219
09-08-2010, 08:29 PM
5.5 back? Looks likely

soxlady8
09-08-2010, 08:30 PM
Teahen is really , really bad !!
It seems that he cannot even make routine plays-
What in the heck was KW thinking when he got him?

Gordon ... come back soon ... WE NEED YA BUDDY !

good for Omar hitting his second hr of the season.

SI1020
09-08-2010, 08:31 PM
Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue. Put your ears real close to your computer and hear me laughing hysterically.

BNLSox
09-08-2010, 08:31 PM
good for Omar hitting his second hr of the season.


Seems like the first one we've hit in weeks... How many games was it without a dinger?

KMcMahon817
09-08-2010, 08:33 PM
Anyone know how to find the SOX record when someone starts a game? I am just curious to know the Sox record when Teahen starts at 3B.

Chicken Dinner
09-08-2010, 08:33 PM
5.5 back? Looks likely


Yep! Tough, but stranger things have happened.

DrCrawdad
09-08-2010, 08:34 PM
Mark Teahan - go **** yourself.

Bonderman pitched a solid game.

Note to Ozzie and KW: defense isn't overrated.

Teahen is OK as a hitter, but he is contemptible, despicable and incompetent as a fielder.

As I was saying in the game thread, nearly all the good Sox teams I've witnessed in my lifetime have had good defense on the left side of the infield as a constant.

This club has had that for most of this year with Ramirez and Vizquel. Put Teahen over there and that goes away. We see the result tonight.

Mark Teahen has no business playing third base at a major league level. He's an atrocious third baseman and makes me long for the days of Josh Fields.

Exactly.

Good defense may not win a division, but bad defense sure can piss it away.

(Darn) straight! Josh Fields has a few hits lately. I still can't fathom trading two players (Fields and Getz) for Teahen then signing him to a 3 yr contract. Teahen should not step foot at 3rd the rest of the season.

Morel Time?

The Sox have a better option sitting right there on the bench. Morel Time indeed!

If I see Teahen playing 3rd from here on out, I'm not watching. Can't bear too.

Glad I missed seeing tonight's game. Cherry on top was the game ending double play.

hi im skot
09-08-2010, 08:34 PM
Seems like the first one we've hit in weeks... How many games was it without a dinger?

Too many for KW's tastes!

Craig Grebeck
09-08-2010, 08:34 PM
If you want defense, you play the one third baseman available who actually wears a glove. You want a marginal bat instead of a below average one, you play Mark Teahen. Myself, I'd have selected the former.

WhiteSox5187
09-08-2010, 08:36 PM
Yep! Tough, but stranger things have happened.

Well, unlike previous years I don't think this team will just roll over and die. They keep fighting. If you lose ground when going 7-2 in nine games there isn't much you can do but tip your hat. The law of averages will usually sort these things out, unfortunately they might not be sorted out until the Twins go three and out in October.

LoveYourSuit
09-08-2010, 08:39 PM
The "Plan A" by Ozzie and Kenny with some of these guys the last 3-4 seasons has been a disaster. From starting jobs handed to awful players like Wise, BA, Fields, Teahen, the DH platoon, just to name a few.

Have the Twins been this bad in talent evaluation during thise time?

I think that's the difference between both teams. Twins never throw a guy out there who just sucks at every aspect of the game of baseball. We tend to find 1 or 2 guys on our opening day line-up every year.

WhiteSox5187
09-08-2010, 08:40 PM
If you want defense, you play the one third baseman available who actually wears a glove. You want a marginal bat instead of a below average one, you play Mark Teahen. Myself, I'd have selected the former.

The thing is unless you go with Morel who is kind of an unknown commodity right now, if you put Omar at third you're hurting your defense at second with Lillibridge there.

tstrike2000
09-08-2010, 08:45 PM
Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue.

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR07s9nP03KcDH4ysS9tXhaeMsjIW2jB GyInP1gQBx1wK2KjDU&t=1&usg=__Jh_6DAYf_SRBGQiSG2F6itt0QkU=

Craig Grebeck
09-08-2010, 08:46 PM
The thing is unless you go with Morel who is kind of an unknown commodity right now, if you put Omar at third you're hurting your defense at second with Lillibridge there.
Morel's glove is, however, a known commodity.

JB98
09-08-2010, 08:46 PM
http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR07s9nP03KcDH4ysS9tXhaeMsjIW2jB GyInP1gQBx1wK2KjDU&t=1&usg=__Jh_6DAYf_SRBGQiSG2F6itt0QkU=

LOL. That's awesome. My sister and I can recite almost every line from that movie.

Noneck
09-08-2010, 08:46 PM
The thing is unless you go with Morel who is kind of an unknown commodity right now, if you put Omar at third you're hurting your defense at second with Lillibridge there.

Thats exactly what I was thinking, it is a pick your poison situation.

doublem23
09-08-2010, 08:47 PM
Even if they win tomorrow, who would have thought an 8-2 road trip could be a disaster?

DrCrawdad
09-08-2010, 08:47 PM
Not true, he signed Vizquel for defense.

But he certainly blew the evaluation on Teahen. Teahen needs to be shipped out of town in an "our crap for your crap" deal. I wonder what we could get for him...

I remember hearing the rationale for trading for Teahen being that they were going to play him exclusively at 3rd, which we were told, was his best and natural position. If that was the actual conclusion and not pure drivel for believers like me then the person who made that assessment needs to get hit with a hammer.

this one is totally on Kenny Wiliams.

I pray to God I never see Teahan at 3rd in a Chicago White Sox uniform this year....or maybe ever....

Teahen playing 3rd, I turn off.


The thing is unless you go with Morel who is kind of an unknown commodity right now, if you put Omar at third you're hurting your defense at second with Lillibridge there.

Put Morel in at 3rd and ride it out, Omar at 2nd. Teahen and Lilibridge are late inning base runners.

JB98
09-08-2010, 08:47 PM
Morel's glove is, however, a known commodity.

Good. If Beckham can't play tomorrow, the Sox should put Morel at 3B. Bat him ninth.

doublem23
09-08-2010, 08:48 PM
Anyone know how to find the SOX record when someone starts a game? I am just curious to know the Sox record when Teahen starts at 3B.

Sox are 30-28 now in games started by Teahen.

chisoxfanatic
09-08-2010, 08:49 PM
Who would have thought an 8-2 road trip could be a disaster?
I can't believe we've had such a great road trip, yet we've LOST ground to the Twins in the standings. A sweep next week is a must...The pressure's on.

Why can't Viciedo start over Teahen?

LongLiveFisk
09-08-2010, 08:49 PM
http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR07s9nP03KcDH4ysS9tXhaeMsjIW2jB GyInP1gQBx1wK2KjDU&t=1&usg=__Jh_6DAYf_SRBGQiSG2F6itt0QkU=

Ah, yes....it's so much better with the graphic, thank you! :cool:

hi im skot
09-08-2010, 08:49 PM
Sox are 30-28 now in games started by Teahen.

That's shocking.

Of course, Detroit didn't hit a single ball to him on Monday...

TheOldRoman
09-08-2010, 08:53 PM
Note to Ozzie and KW: defense isn't overrated.Neither is hitting a ****ing garbage pitcher or getting out a crappy, injury decimated lineup. The whole clubhouse gets credit for this garbage tonight. Danks, defense and hitting were all horrible. For whatever reason over the last 6 or 7 years the Sox pitchers have so much trouble pitching over errors. For the longest time Buehrle would almost always give up a big inning after an error. Maybe it seems worse because I see it every day, but I would imagine the Sox have given up the most unearned runs per error over the last several years.

giraffe
09-08-2010, 08:54 PM
in times like these....I watch this video.
rWlx2JiY4t0

Nelfox02
09-08-2010, 08:54 PM
its hard to get that fired up at team on a 7-2 road trip, but this game does sting

last night, yeah that sucked but you looked at the pitching match up and figured it would be rough, Big Game put us in an early hole and then left, you saw it coming

tonight? very optimisitc we could win, plus you figure KC has a good shot, and it turns to ****

not sure what else I can say about Teahen that has not already been said, but that move has to rank as one of KW's worst no doubt

1 run and so few hits off Bonderman? please

I wont declare this thing essentially over until we get out of that Minn series 3 back or more.....but sitting at 5.5 back with only 4 to play ahead of that series.........not boding well here

russ99
09-08-2010, 08:54 PM
Guys are not executing with runners on base, plain and simple.

When that happens, we lose, regardless of how our pitching and defense does.

tstrike2000
09-08-2010, 08:55 PM
LOL. That's awesome. My sister and I can recite almost every line from that movie.

Agreed, Airplane is one of my all-time favorites. Coincidentally, watching this team can sometimes make you want to sniff glue.

doublem23
09-08-2010, 08:56 PM
That's shocking.

Of course, Detroit didn't hit a single ball to him on Monday...

The Sox are also 3-4 in the 7 games he's started at DH, so when he's starting at 3rd, they're 27-24 now.

OOPS... I didn't notice he also started 2 G in RF, both wins, so when he starts at 3B, the Sox are actually 25-24. Still amazed they're over .500 considering he went down before they got hot and he is god awful defensively.

KMcMahon817
09-08-2010, 08:58 PM
The Sox are also 3-4 in the 7 games he's started at DH, so when he's starting at 3rd, they're 27-24 now.

Thank you. You mind me asking where you find that?

tstrike2000
09-08-2010, 09:00 PM
I can't believe we've had such a great road trip, yet we've LOST ground to the Twins in the standings. A sweep next week is a must...The pressure's on.

Why can't Viciedo start over Teahen?

Yes and yes. Viciedo could, but he's not exactly great at the hot corner either.

doublem23
09-08-2010, 09:01 PM
Thank you. You mind me asking where you find that?

If you look at his 2010 splits at B-R.com (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?n1=teahema01&year=2010&t=b) (the best baseball stats site on the interweb), they break down his stats in team's wins and team's losses, including GS. I had to count the DH games by hand in the Game Log (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.cgi?n1=teahema01&t=b&year=2010), but seeing as he's only appeared in 7 of them, it wasn't too hard.

veeter
09-08-2010, 09:02 PM
If you want defense, you play the one third baseman available who actually wears a glove. You want a marginal bat instead of a below average one, you play Mark Teahen. Myself, I'd have selected the former.Who's bat is below average?

doublem23
09-08-2010, 09:03 PM
Who's bat is below average?

The Mushroom

(Brent Morel)

KMcMahon817
09-08-2010, 09:04 PM
If you look at his 2010 splits at B-R.com (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?n1=teahema01&year=2010&t=b) (the best baseball stats site on the interweb), they break down his stats in team's wins and team's losses, including GS. I had to count the DH games by hand in the Game Log (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.cgi?n1=teahema01&t=b&year=2010), but seeing as he's only appeared in 7 of them, it wasn't too hard.

Okay, thanks. I just needed to look a bit harder I suppose.

Dan H
09-08-2010, 09:04 PM
Even if they win tomorrow, who would have thought an 8-2 road trip could be a disaster?

Or even a 7-3 trip? The Twins are on fire like the Mets were in 1969. It looks like the White Sox have to win all four before they face Minnesota to have the slightest chance. The race isn't over yet, but with each game knocked off the schedule, it puts the Sox in a near impossible position. In the previous nine against the Twins, the Sox won only three. They just dug themselves in too big a hole just as they did when they wasted the first third of the season. I don't know if the Sox have another streak left in them. They need another seven in a row, and that is just too much to ask. It looks like the Twins are the better team to me.

hi im skot
09-08-2010, 09:05 PM
The Mushroom

(Brent Morel)

I giggled.

veeter
09-08-2010, 09:05 PM
The Mushroom

(Brent Morel)He didn't mean Omar?

captain54
09-08-2010, 09:05 PM
the fans are often taken to task on this board for thinking they know more than management, and are criticized for questioning moves ...
the rationale being "these guys know what they're doing, they have
it all covered and then some"

KW moved Beckham over to 2nd because of the move of Teahan to cover
the hole at third.....the hole is now even bigger...

the morale of the story kids, management is NOT infallible

veeter
09-08-2010, 09:10 PM
the fans are often taken to task on this board for thinking they know more than management, and are criticized for questioning moves ...
the rationale being "these guys know what they're doing, they have
it all covered and then some"

KW moved Beckham over to 2nd because of the move of Teahan to cover
the hole at third.....the hole is now even bigger...

the morale of the story kids, management is NOT infallibleKenny thought he'd get a guy who was ready to blossom in a better situation. Just like Jose Valentin and Scotty Pods. However, Royals seem to be losers. They've never experienced winning, or games in a pennant race. Would I take Billy Butler, of course. But their marginal players are just that, and can't help a contender IMO.

DrCrawdad
09-08-2010, 09:13 PM
Or even a 7-3 trip? The Twins are on fire like the Mets were in 1969. It looks like the White Sox have to win all four before they face Minnesota to have the slightest chance. The race isn't over yet, but with each game knocked off the schedule, it puts the Sox in a near impossible position. In the previous nine against the Twins, the Sox won only three. They just dug themselves in too big a hole just as they did when they wasted the first third of the season. I don't know if the Sox have another streak left in them. They need another seven in a row, and that is just too much to ask. It looks like the Twins are the better team to me.

Going into the season I thought the Sox had better pitching but the Twins had the better offense. As it's turned out, IF (notice the caps, as I'm not even certain this is true) the Sox pitching is better than the Twins it's not better by much. The Twins offense is so much better than the Sox that it overcomes any advantage the Sox have in pitching.

I haven't given up yet. I will still be root, root, rooting for the White Sox but I don't have much hope in the face of the above.

JB98
09-08-2010, 09:14 PM
Kenny thought he'd get a guy who was ready to blossom in a better situation. Just like Jose Valentin and Scotty Pods. However, Royals seem to be losers. They've never experienced winning, or games in a pennant race. Would I take Billy Butler, of course. But their marginal players are just that, and can't help a contender IMO.

The problem isn't that Kenny rolled the dice on Teahen. The problem was giving him that extension.

DrCrawdad
09-08-2010, 09:16 PM
The problem isn't that Kenny rolled the dice on Teahen. The problem was giving him that extension.

Yeah, that was very ill-advised.

Kenny thought he'd get a guy who was ready to blossom in a better situation. Just like Jose Valentin and Scotty Pods. However, Royals seem to be losers. They've never experienced winning, or games in a pennant race. Would I take Billy Butler, of course. But their marginal players are just that, and can't help a contender IMO.

Seems like KW has traded with the Royals several times and the Sox have come away with crap.

veeter
09-08-2010, 09:17 PM
The problem isn't that Kenny rolled the dice on Teahen. The problem was giving him that extension.That's true, but he's ****ing us in the short term in a pennant race.

doublem23
09-08-2010, 09:18 PM
Seems like KW has traded with the Royals several times and the Sox have come away with crap.

There's a reason they've only had 1 winning season since the strike.

RadioheadRocks
09-08-2010, 09:19 PM
Seems like KW has traded with the Royals several times and the Sox have come away with crap.


Agreed.

Resist the urge, KW!!!

JB98
09-08-2010, 09:20 PM
That's true, but he's ****ing us in the short term in a pennant race.

Yeah, and unfortunately he's out there because Beckham got hurt.

KW and the Sox scouts definitely whiffed on the Teahen eval. There's no getting around it.

DrCrawdad
09-08-2010, 09:20 PM
That's true, but he's ****ing us in the short term in a pennant race.

True, so true.

And if KW trades Teahen I imagine it could very well end up like Swisher where the Sox lose on both ends of the trades and come away with NOTHING of value. Then the final insult will be seeing Teahen succeed elsewhere and haunt the Sox each time they play against him.

captain54
09-08-2010, 09:25 PM
Kenny thought he'd get a guy who was ready to blossom in a better situation. .

The fact that the Sox went on their run in June and July while Teahan was on the DL was a bad omen.

05' was both a curse and blessing... so just throw any kind of flotsam and jetsom against the wall and see if it sticks....like it did in 05'

veeter
09-08-2010, 09:25 PM
True, so true.

And if KW trades Teahen I imagine it could very well end up like Swisher where the Sox lose on both ends of the trades and come away with NOTHING of value. Then the final insult will be seeing Teahen succeed elsewhere and haunt the Sox each time they play against him.That would suck, but I have every confidence Teahen wouldn't burn the Sox. The moment that guy got hurt, the Sox went straight up. Like someone else suggested, play Viciedo. His glove isn't any worse that Teahen's, and can be wicked at the plate. I'll never understand Mark Teahen's presence.

captain54
09-08-2010, 09:28 PM
True, so true.

And if KW trades Teahen I imagine it could very well end up like Swisher where the Sox lose on both ends of the trades and come away with NOTHING of value. Then the final insult will be seeing Teahen succeed elsewhere and haunt the Sox each time they play against him.

KW trading Teahen in the offseason would be his Oh - so - special gift to me..

I'm willing to take my chances on him succeeding elsewhere

JB98
09-08-2010, 09:29 PM
Danks quote from the Associated Press story:

"They hit Manny twice yesterday and almost hit Andruw, so we were definitely trying to send a message,Ē Danks said. "We didnít hit anyone, so I donít know if the warning was warranted, but I can definitely understand why the umpire did it. It is his job to keep control out there, so you canít fault him.Ē

Why don't the Sox lie about this stuff like every other team in baseball? Just say it slipped, John. Don't open yourself up to fine or suspension.

Lip Man 1
09-08-2010, 09:29 PM
Teahan and Kotsay are both very valuable in their roles which should be at best starting two games a week., They should be used more off the bench as pinch hitters or a situational substitution rather than seeing as much time as they have this year.

The fact that they have been overused in my opinion given their talent limitations is the issue.

Lip

GoGoCrede
09-08-2010, 09:34 PM
I haven't totally lost hope, but then again, I was in denial for a long time last year. Maybe we'll make it, maybe we won't, but I'll keep watching till the very end.

doublem23
09-08-2010, 09:34 PM
Teahan and Kotsay are both very valuable in their roles which should be at best starting two games a week., They should be used more off the bench as pinch hitters or a situational substitution rather than seeing as much time as they have this year.

The fact that they have been overused in my opinion given their talent limitations is the issue.

Lip

You realize you're like the 50 millionth poster here to point this out, right?

BadBobbyJenks
09-08-2010, 09:35 PM
Jeremy Bonderman, LOL.

Way to step up Danks.

Twins win, this looks about over.

doublem23
09-08-2010, 09:37 PM
I haven't totally lost hope, but then again, I was in denial for a long time last year. Maybe we'll make it, maybe we won't, but I'll keep watching till the very end.

I keep trying to convince myself it's all OK because he, we're a week into September and the games still matter, so that counts for something, right? It's not even that I'm mad, it's just frustrating as hell that the Twins are suddenly invincible. It'd be one thing if the Sox just folded like a tent, OK, I'd be pissed, but the fact that they're a pretty decent team that is trying to catch the suddenly 2001 Mariners is killing me inside.

I may as well stick with it the rest of the way, though, no point in abandoning ship at this point.

Red Barchetta
09-08-2010, 09:39 PM
True, so true.

And if KW trades Teahen I imagine it could very well end up like Swisher where the Sox lose on both ends of the trades and come away with NOTHING of value. Then the final insult will be seeing Teahen succeed elsewhere and haunt the Sox each time they play against him.

...to cap this great day, Swisher hit the walk off HR for the Yankees. Regardless, I felt the same way Ozzie did about Swisher and I'm feeling the same about Teahen. Sometimes, you just make a bad deal, i.e. Jaime Navarro. Suck it up and move on.

captain54
09-08-2010, 09:41 PM
Teahan and Kotsay are both very valuable in their roles which should be at best starting two games a week., They should be used more off the bench as pinch hitters or a situational substitution rather than seeing as much time as they have this year.

The fact that they have been overused in my opinion given their talent limitations is the issue.

Lip

true...in those situations where we need guys to strike out in critical situations, leave a lot of guys on base, hit tons of pop ups and grounders and tons of DP's...as well as totally butcher the position you were originally brought here to play...

those would be the guys to count on

GoGoCrede
09-08-2010, 09:41 PM
I keep trying to convince myself it's all OK because he, we're a week into September and the games still matter, so that counts for something, right? It's not even that I'm mad, it's just frustrating as hell that the Twins are suddenly invincible. It'd be one thing if the Sox just folded like a tent, OK, I'd be pissed, but the fact that they're a pretty decent team that is trying to catch the suddenly 2001 Mariners is killing me inside.

I may as well stick with it the rest of the way, though, no point in abandoning ship at this point.

These past games have just seemed so - quiet. Boring, even. I refuse to believe that the end of this rollercoaster season can end so meekly. I don't want to believe that this team, that showed so much fight during June/July (and even these past games against Boston) has given up. I still they've got it in them to give us a finish. But they're gonna have to start proving me right soon, very soon.

It DOES suck that we've had a pretty successful road trip and are still playing for our lives.

hi im skot
09-08-2010, 09:41 PM
true...in those situations where we need guys to strike out in critical situations, leave a lot of guys on base, hit tons of pop ups and grounders and tons of DP's...as well as totally butcher the position you were originally brought here to play...

those would be the guys to count on

:thumbsup:

veeter
09-08-2010, 09:42 PM
I keep trying to convince myself it's all OK because he, we're a week into September and the games still matter, so that counts for something, right? It's not even that I'm mad, it's just frustrating as hell that the Twins are suddenly invincible. It'd be one thing if the Sox just folded like a tent, OK, I'd be pissed, but the fact that they're a pretty decent team that is trying to catch the suddenly 2001 Mariners is killing me inside.

I may as well stick with it the rest of the way, though, no point in abandoning ship at this point.I agree. They're are as irritating as it gets. And I'm pretty sure, will get bounced from the playoffs quickly, if they win the division.

rainbow6
09-08-2010, 09:45 PM
With all the uncertainty that a baseball season entails, I was confident that tonights game would result in something most everyone expected: the announcement of Mark Teahan's retirement. I have searched all of the major sorts sites (Fox Sports/ESPN/Sporting News/etc.), I've watched the postgames press conferences, followed the beat writers on Twitter.

It seems as if Teahan is playing this one close to his vest - no one has reported his retirement. Is it possible that he will soldier on and report to Comerica Park tomorrow? Will he nervoulsy walk up to the lineup card to see if his name is penciled in?

Does he keep his head down and walk really fast past Vizquel's locker?

I have to admit watching Teahan play makes me feel like I am in the big leagues, living the dream . Unfortunatley, that involves routine ground balls bouncing off my elbows and spastic throws to the rightfielder that were intended for second base. Not to mention my lack of power and speed.

In Teahan, the everyman now has a hero.

veeter
09-08-2010, 09:46 PM
These past games have just seemed so - quiet. Boring, even. I refuse to believe that the end of this rollercoaster season can end so meekly. I don't want to believe that this team, that showed so much fight during June/July (and even these past games against Boston) has given up. I still they've got it in them to give us a finish. But they're gonna have to start proving me right soon, very soon.

It DOES suck that we've had a pretty successful road trip and are still playing for our lives.I agree. It does seem like this team still has something special in store for us.

GoGoCrede
09-08-2010, 09:47 PM
With all the uncertainty that a baseball season entails, I was confident that tonights game would result in something most everyone expected: the announcement of Mark Teahan's retirement. I have searched all of the major sorts sites (Fox Sports/ESPN/Sporting News/etc.), I've watched the postgames press conferences, followed the beat writers on Twitter.

It seems as if Teahan is playing this one close to his vest - no one has reported his retirement. Is it possible that he will soldier on and report to Comerica Park tomorrow? Will he nervoulsy walk up to the lineup card to see if his name is penciled in?

Does he keep his head down and walk really fast past Vizquel's locker?

I have to admit watching Teahan play makes me feel like I am in the big leagues, living the dream . Unfortunatley, that involves routine ground balls bouncing off my elbows and spastic throws to the rightfielder that were intended for second base. Not to mention my lack of power and speed.

In Teahan, the everyman now has a hero.

Haha. I'm sure quite a few members on here would contribute to his retirement party fund.

veeter
09-08-2010, 09:47 PM
With all the uncertainty that a baseball season entails, I was confident that tonights game would result in something most everyone expected: the announcement of Mark Teahan's retirement. I have searched all of the major sorts sites (Fox Sports/ESPN/Sporting News/etc.), I've watched the postgames press conferences, followed the beat writers on Twitter.

It seems as if Teahan is playing this one close to his vest - no one has reported his retirement. Is it possible that he will soldier on and report to Comerica Park tomorrow? Will he nervoulsy walk up to the lineup card to see if his name is penciled in?

Does he keep his head down and walk really fast past Vizquel's locker?

I have to admit watching Teahan play makes me feel like I am in the big leagues, living the dream . Unfortunatley, that involves routine ground balls bouncing off my elbows and spastic throws to the rightfielder that were intended for second base. Not to mention my lack of power and speed.

In Teahan, the everyman now has a hero.Maybe he'll do a Kruk. Get a single, grab the ball, and leave forever.

captain54
09-08-2010, 09:48 PM
With all the uncertainty that a baseball season entails, I was confident that tonights game would result in something most everyone expected: the announcement of Mark Teahan's retirement. I have searched all of the major sorts sites (Fox Sports/ESPN/Sporting News/etc.), I've watched the postgames press conferences, followed the beat writers on Twitter.

It seems as if Teahan is playing this one close to his vest - no one has reported his retirement. Is it possible that he will soldier on and report to Comerica Park tomorrow? Will he nervoulsy walk up to the lineup card to see if his name is penciled in?

Does he keep his head down and walk really fast past Vizquel's locker?

I have to admit watching Teahan play makes me feel like I am in the big leagues, living the dream . Unfortunatley, that involves routine ground balls bouncing off my elbows and spastic throws to the rightfielder that were intended for second base. Not to mention my lack of power and speed.

In Teahan, the everyman now has a hero.

:clap::rolling::rolling::rolling:

sox1970
09-08-2010, 09:50 PM
I wish his name was actually Teahan. It's a good Chicago accent name.

Hey, did you see Teahan over by da Jewels?

Stuff like that...

GoGoCrede
09-08-2010, 09:51 PM
I wish his name was actually Teahan. It's a good Chicago accent name.

Hey, did you see Teahan over by da Jewels?

Stuff like that...

:lol: I swear, the Sox losing brings out the humor in WSI posters.


rainbow6, great post. The Vizquel part killed me.

captain54
09-08-2010, 09:58 PM
Does he keep his head down and walk really fast past Vizquel's locker?

.

If I were him I would keep my head down and apologize for collecting a paycheck.

VMSNS
09-08-2010, 10:02 PM
Typically, a 7-3 or 8-2 road trip is pretty good....yet we lose ground. And the friggin' Twinkies beat Greinke. I admire this team for fighting and trying their best (for the most part), but sometimes it just isn't meant to be, I guess. We take a step forward, and they take a step forward. We take a step backward, and they take a step forward.

I think this game tonight further demonstrates how weak the Sox are mentally, and how poorly they deal with pressure. Teahen makes an error tonight, and the defense just completely ****s all over themselves. Don't feel sorry for yourselves because there was an error. Pick yourselves up and get out of the inning! We're facing Bonderman. Jeremy ****ing Bonderman. How are we NOT clobbering this guy all night long? When your entire offense for a whole game is an Omar Vizquel solo home run, there is a SERIOUS PROBLEM.

Mark Teahen sucks. Badly. There is absolutely no reason why he should ever start at 3B again. He should be riding pine and only playing twice a week, if that. I can't for the life of me understand Kenny's reasoning when we signed this worthless sack of **** to a 3-year extension. Not to mention that it needlessly forced Beckham over to 2B, which probably caused part of his epic slump earlier this season. Plus, Beckham was an infinitely better 3B than Teahen ever hopes to be.

And what's with Danks admitting to throwing at another hitter? I'm glad he did it, but shut your ****ing mouth, John. Remember what happened when Bobby admitted to throwing at Ian Kinsler last season in Texas?

Oh, and fire Greg Walker. Seriously. No-teal.

Domeshot17
09-08-2010, 10:06 PM
This is why we should have not laid down to Baltimore and KC. Who would have thought losing games to bad teams would ever come back to haunt us.

The difference between Minnesota and the White Sox: Minnesota had players step up in the clutch and Minnesota beat the teams they should beat.

DrCrawdad
09-08-2010, 10:07 PM
:angry:

Now this weekend we get the watch Wilson Betemit, Josh Fields and Chris Getz come in to play against the Sox. No doubt they'll make all the routine plays and spectacular ones as well then smash the ball all around The Cell. Can't wait...

:angry:

sox1970
09-08-2010, 10:11 PM
This is why we should have not laid down to Baltimore and KC. Who would have thought losing games to bad teams would ever come back to haunt us.

The difference between Minnesota and the White Sox: Minnesota had players step up in the clutch and Minnesota beat the teams they should beat.

I don't think August has much to do with the overall problem with the Sox.
It's pretty simple...they started the season 5-11, including 1-5 versus Cleveland.

They started the season 24-33.

And most important... the Sox are 5-10 against the Twins, including two badly blown games.

The Twins are heading to 95+ wins. They're earning it.

doublem23
09-08-2010, 10:15 PM
This is why we should have not laid down to Baltimore and KC. Who would have thought losing games to bad teams would ever come back to haunt us.

The difference between Minnesota and the White Sox: Minnesota had players step up in the clutch and Minnesota beat the teams they should beat.

Great analysis. Obviously if the Sox were smart, they wouldn't have "lost" any games.

You do realize, of course, that since August 1, the Orioles have the 2nd best record in the AL, behind Minnesota? It's not like the Sox just laid down, they caught them at the wrong time.

guillensdisciple
09-08-2010, 10:28 PM
The good news: I am no longer an angry fan as I did not get pissed after the loss.

I will make a note. There is something wrong with the management here as they are not getting the most out of their players. We are more talented than the Twins and seem to fail when they seem to prosper. I am not saying fire anyone- I'm just saying that we need to get more out of our players. We did not do that to start the year and it is haunting us now.

I don't think we'll win this thing, and for what it's worth, it was a hell of a ride. Miracles happen, but a collapse of epic proportion would have to occur in Minnesota for us to take this thing. Even if we are only 2 games back by the end of the series against them I still think we're in trouble. Hell, seeing how we have problems against Kansas City that might not be the case.

Brian26
09-08-2010, 10:30 PM
With all the uncertainty that a baseball season entails, I was confident that tonights game would result in something most everyone expected: the announcement of Mark Teahan's retirement. I have searched all of the major sorts sites (Fox Sports/ESPN/Sporting News/etc.), I've watched the postgames press conferences, followed the beat writers on Twitter.

It seems as if Teahan is playing this one close to his vest - no one has reported his retirement. Is it possible that he will soldier on and report to Comerica Park tomorrow? Will he nervoulsy walk up to the lineup card to see if his name is penciled in?

Does he keep his head down and walk really fast past Vizquel's locker?

I have to admit watching Teahan play makes me feel like I am in the big leagues, living the dream . Unfortunatley, that involves routine ground balls bouncing off my elbows and spastic throws to the rightfielder that were intended for second base. Not to mention my lack of power and speed.

In Teahan, the everyman now has a hero.

:thumbsup: Awesome

rookie
09-08-2010, 10:30 PM
I agree. It does seem like this team still has something special in store for us.

Thank you for this. I'm going to hold on to this. A win tomorrow and no Twins game will help. It's not over. I didn't think that the Blackout/Tiebreaker Game would happen. And though it's nervewrecking right now, how much worse would it be to be out of it completely?

hi im skot
09-08-2010, 10:35 PM
Oh, and fire Greg Walker. Seriously. No-teal.

It's been awhile.

sox1970
09-08-2010, 10:36 PM
Morel will start at 3B tomorrow. Apparently he announced this himself on his Facebook.

mcsoxfan
09-08-2010, 10:36 PM
Not true, he signed Vizquel for defense.

But he certainly blew the evaluation on Teahen. Teahen needs to be shipped out of town in an "our crap for your crap" deal. I wonder what we could get for him...


Teahen and Korsay accounted for 7 unearned runs in the last 2 games.

mcsoxfan
09-08-2010, 10:39 PM
Sox are 30-28 now in games started by Teahen.

but they have the best record in baseball without him in the lineup

Rdy2PlayBall
09-08-2010, 10:42 PM
but they have the best record in baseball without him in the lineupThat's not a fair statistic. He missed out on the NL, which is the only reason the Sox are still "in this".

(according to many...)

thomas35forever
09-08-2010, 10:45 PM
Not good. We need a miracle and fast.

A. Cavatica
09-08-2010, 10:54 PM
Not good. We need a miracle and fast.

Alomar time?

thomas35forever
09-08-2010, 11:02 PM
Hey Twins fans, remember this?
http://images.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/_photos/2006-10-04-hunter.jpghttp://images.usatoday.com/_common/_images/clear.gif

soltrain21
09-08-2010, 11:28 PM
That's not a fair statistic. He missed out on the NL, which is the only reason the Sox are still "in this".

(according to many...)


It's plenty fair. This team is better when Teahen is not on the field.

PeteWard
09-08-2010, 11:28 PM
I figured a 7-3 road trip would set the Sox up nicely and allow them to catch or even overtake the Twins with a sweep.

Now losing two in a row to Detroit somehow became a catastrophe. Sox have to win tomorrow and have to gain a game over the weekend. Then they have to sweep. That would put them one back. Being three or more down when the Twins leave town would be the end I think. Unless that Twins tailspin many of us have called finally happens -- but looking at their schedule I just don't see it anymore.

I hate depending on Cleveland. I hate that Texas let us down. But this situation of depending on other teams all came about because the Sox could not beat the Twins head to head. To me, that is the key if they fail to make the ps.

I still have not given up but ugh....not a good week.

BlackAndWhite
09-08-2010, 11:38 PM
Hey Twins fans, remember this?
http://images.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/_photos/2006-10-04-hunter.jpghttp://images.usatoday.com/_common/_images/clear.gif

L O ****ing L

Craig Grebeck
09-08-2010, 11:57 PM
Yeah, I'm gonna have to go ahead and assert a pretty large gulf between Swisher and Teahen. Former can hit, latter cannot.

DirtySox
09-09-2010, 12:01 AM
Morel will start at 3B tomorrow. Apparently he announced this himself on his Facebook.

Good.

How bad were the Teahen errors tonight?

JB98
09-09-2010, 12:06 AM
Good.

How bad were the Teahen errors tonight?

They were the same type of throwing errors we've seen from him all season -- hesitate, double clutch, throw 10 feet wide of the bag.

Just terrible. It's mental midget crap. Teahen even admitted after the game he let his first error affect him on the second errant throw.

DrCrawdad
09-09-2010, 12:09 AM
Good.

How bad were the Teahen errors tonight?

Quite costly. A muffed potential DP when Teahen tossed the ball into RF.

doublem23
09-09-2010, 12:16 AM
They were the same type of throwing errors we've seen from him all season -- hesitate, double clutch, throw 10 feet wide of the bag.

Just terrible. It's mental midget crap. Teahen even admitted after the game he let his first error affect him on the second errant throw.

Anyone with delusions of Teahen turning it around during the life of his contract is just kidding themselves. He's an all right bat off the bench, I guess, but he's just brutal in the field.

All you need to know about the guy is that the Royals not only dumped him, they paid us to take him off their hands. The Royals, a team that spends money about as extravagantly as my grandparents who were raised during the Depression, paid us money to take him.

And it's not even like he was blocking some uberprospect from breaking through in the big leagues. Last year, his most prolific positions in KC were 3B and RF and so far in 2010, those positions have been filled by Alberto Callaspo, Wilson Betemit, David DeJesus, and Mitch Maier.

He seems like a nice guy off the field, but on it, he's just bad. At pretty much everything.

captain54
09-09-2010, 12:17 AM
Fielding Stats - 2010 - 3B

Omar Vizquel - 543 innings - 2 errors
Wilson Betemit - 338 innings - 5 errors
Mark Teahan - 403 innings - 10 errors

thomas35forever
09-09-2010, 12:43 AM
Fielding Stats - 2010 - 3B

Omar Vizquel - 543 innings - 2 errors
Wilson Betemit - 338 innings - 5 errors
Mark Teahan - 403 innings - 10 errors
Betemit has thankfully been gone for over a year.

RadioheadRocks
09-09-2010, 01:32 AM
Betemit has thankfully been gone for over a year.


Only to bite us in the ass every chance he gets :angry::angry::angry:

voodoochile
09-09-2010, 03:04 AM
I knew that Teahen would get the blame in this thread and yes, the inning could have been over if he makes a solid throw to second, but the fact remains the offense was non-existent and Danks failed to pitch over Teahen's error.

You know what an ace does in a situation like that? He strikes out the next two batters on 6 pitches walks to the dugout and nods at his third baseman. Instead, Danks clearly let it get the best of him walking the next guy and then serving up a meatball to score the first two runs. I know Danks was pitching on short rest, but the fact remains, that given the opportunity to be the ace so many here claim he is and that he seems to crave for himself, Danks instead got rattled and then melted down for several batters in a row.

What's the old joke about to err is human to really screw up it takes a computer. Well, Teahen made and error. Then Danks turned that error into a disaster.

Go ahead, flame me, but unearned runs are still runs and it's the pitchers job to prevent all runs. Danks failed and I blame him a heck of a lot more than I do Teahen.

And again, the offense scratched out a single run for the second day in a row, so it's most likely moot anyway...

nccwsfan
09-09-2010, 06:14 AM
I knew that Teahen would get the blame in this thread and yes, the inning could have been over if he makes a solid throw to second, but the fact remains the offense was non-existent and Danks failed to pitch over Teahen's error.

You know what an ace does in a situation like that? He strikes out the next two batters on 6 pitches walks to the dugout and nods at his third baseman. Instead, Danks clearly let it get the best of him walking the next guy and then serving up a meatball to score the first two runs. I know Danks was pitching on short rest, but the fact remains, that given the opportunity to be the ace so many here claim he is and that he seems to crave for himself, Danks instead got rattled and then melted down for several batters in a row.

What's the old joke about to err is human to really screw up it takes a computer. Well, Teahen made and error. Then Danks turned that error into a disaster.

Go ahead, flame me, but unearned runs are still runs and it's the pitchers job to prevent all runs. Danks failed and I blame him a heck of a lot more than I do Teahen.

And again, the offense scratched out a single run for the second day in a row, so it's most likely moot anyway...


Couldn't agree more. Teahen did make two bad errors last night, but ultimately Danks' job to get out of those jams. He didn't, and short rest or no a pitcher of his caliber should shoulder some of the blame for last night.

Our offense laid down as well....just an ugly game when we least needed it. Stranger things have happened though, so let's get a win today and start a solid run at home.

DrCrawdad
09-09-2010, 06:58 AM
I knew that Teahen would get the blame in this thread and yes, the inning could have been over if he makes a solid throw to second, but the fact remains the offense was non-existent and Danks failed to pitch over Teahen's error.

You know what an ace does in a situation like that? He strikes out the next two batters on 6 pitches walks to the dugout and nods at his third baseman. Instead, Danks clearly let it get the best of him walking the next guy and then serving up a meatball to score the first two runs. I know Danks was pitching on short rest, but the fact remains, that given the opportunity to be the ace so many here claim he is and that he seems to crave for himself, Danks instead got rattled and then melted down for several batters in a row.

What's the old joke about to err is human to really screw up it takes a computer. Well, Teahen made and error. Then Danks turned that error into a disaster.

Go ahead, flame me, but unearned runs are still runs and it's the pitchers job to prevent all runs. Danks failed and I blame him a heck of a lot more than I do Teahen.

And again, the offense scratched out a single run for the second day in a row, so it's most likely moot anyway...

I've been on Teahen as much many as here but I have to admit you're right about Danks and the offense. In several games this season, IIRC, Danks has flopped when we've needed him. The offense leaves so many runners on base and grounds into so many momentum killing double plays. For all the talk of small ball the Sox don't appear to me to be very good nor consistent in producing runs.

But back to Teahen, here's the rub to me with him. If Teahen is not hitting AND playing Keystone Cops on defense then it's a double whammy from him. And I guess it's just my personal preference but I want to see solid defense, not Little League misplays but that's what I've seen too often from Teahen. It ticks me off and frustrates the (hades) out of me. I know that's an emotional reaction but that's the way it is.

Statistically speaking, I don't know where the Sox rank with unearned runs allowed but it seems like they give up a lot. And Danks is not the only one who does not "pitch over" errors and mistakes, it's been weakness of the Sox for a long time.

Craig Grebeck
09-09-2010, 07:23 AM
Of course Danks is still responsible, unearned runs are still a problem -- regardless of how they're viewed in compiling a pitcher's ERA. However, if I'm the manager, and I'm throwing a guy on short rest, I put the best defense behind him. Plain and simple. Teahen is not part of that lineup.

October26
09-09-2010, 07:50 AM
Of course Danks is still responsible, unearned runs are still a problem -- regardless of how they're viewed in compiling a pitcher's ERA. However, if I'm the manager, and I'm throwing a guy on short rest, I put the best defense behind him. Plain and simple. Teahen is not part of that lineup.

Yep. I was angry at Ozzie from the minute I saw Teahen in the lineup yesterday. Just had a sick feeling about Teahen's bad glove at 3B. I was also extremely disappointed at the Sox offense last night. Ugh. Ok - last night's game is done and so I'll move on.

I read this entire thread on the way in to work this morning and just want to say thanks to all the Sox fans who have posted here for the therapy provided. Like all Sox fans, I'm feeling bummed about the fact that despite a great road trip, it does not appear to be enough to overcome the Twins for the central division lead. I also hate this time of year because the reality sets in that the baseball season is winding down and that also makes me sad, because I love the White sox so much.

So, I'm not gonna think about that right now, and instead look to Floyd to deliver another good performance for the Sox today. Also need the Sox bats to show up and hit against Tigers pitching today. Go Sox!

whitesoxfan
09-09-2010, 09:02 AM
Is it just me or does Danks have a really bad inability to pitch around mistakes behind him? It seems like every time that something goes against him, whether it be a bad call at the plate or an error on the defense, he just melts. That's not a good quality for a #1 guy to have.

TheOldRoman
09-09-2010, 09:09 AM
It's plenty fair. This team is better when Teahen is not on the field.No, it isn't. Vizquel has provided much improved defense, and Alexei has played better since he has been there, but Vizquel didn't make the other 8 guys in the lineup hit and didn't make the starters start pitching well, which is what happened in June. The team is better without Teahen starting at 3rd, but it is extremely disingenuous to claim that the the records accurately depict him pulling the team into a vortex of losing. Why did the Sox drop so many winnable games in August with Vizquel playing third? Because they finally cooled off? Or was it because Teahen's mere presence on the bench caused them to stop hitting and made the bullpen collapse?

rainbow6
09-09-2010, 09:33 AM
Removing one of the worst defenders in the league from your lineup does not make the team better?

I'm stunned someone could belive this...



No, it isn't. Vizquel has provided much improved defense, and Alexei has played better since he has been there, but Vizquel didn't make the other 8 guys in the lineup hit and didn't make the starters start pitching well, which is what happened in June. The team is better without Teahen starting at 3rd, but it is extremely disingenuous to claim that the the records accurately depict him pulling the team into a vortex of losing. Why did the Sox drop so many winnable games in August with Vizquel playing third? Because they finally cooled off? Or was it because Teahen's mere presence on the bench caused them to stop hitting and made the bullpen collapse?

TheOldRoman
09-09-2010, 10:16 AM
Removing one of the worst defenders in the league from your lineup does not make the team better?

I'm stunned someone could belive this... I don't know if you are trolling or didn't read my post. I never said that. Take a look at the bolded part.

No, it isn't. Vizquel has provided much improved defense, and Alexei has played better since he has been there, but Vizquel didn't make the other 8 guys in the lineup hit and didn't make the starters start pitching well, which is what happened in June. The team is better without Teahen starting at 3rd, but it is extremely disingenuous to claim that the the records accurately depict him pulling the team into a vortex of losing. Why did the Sox drop so many winnable games in August with Vizquel playing third? Because they finally cooled off? Or was it because Teahen's mere presence on the bench caused them to stop hitting and made the bullpen collapse? When Teahen got injured the Sox started hitting and the rotation started living up to its billing. Improving the defense didn't make guys hit. Improving the defense didn't shave 2 runs off Peavy and Floyd's ERAs.

voodoochile
09-09-2010, 10:35 AM
Is it just me or does Danks have a really bad inability to pitch around mistakes behind him? It seems like every time that something goes against him, whether it be a bad call at the plate or an error on the defense, he just melts. That's not a good quality for a #1 guy to have.

He struggled with it early in the year. So did Floyd, but they seemed to get over it a bit this summer, now they just need to take the next step.

rainbow6
09-09-2010, 10:40 AM
Not trolling...

Someone stated that this team is better without Teahen on the field.
You said "no, it isn't."

I'm not blaming all the faults of this team on Teahen, or last nights game.

Nor do I deny your valid points about the pitching staff.

I just have hard time wrapping my mind around the thought that removing a subpar defender would not make a team better.

I obviously misunderstood your intent - apologies.




I don't know if you are trolling or didn't read my post. I never said that. Take a look at the bolded part.

When Teahen got injured the Sox started hitting and the rotation started living up to its billing. Improving the defense didn't make guys hit. Improving the defense didn't shave 2 runs off Peavy and Floyd's ERAs.

soltrain21
09-09-2010, 11:24 AM
I don't know if you are trolling or didn't read my post. I never said that. Take a look at the bolded part.

When Teahen got injured the Sox started hitting and the rotation started living up to its billing. Improving the defense didn't make guys hit. Improving the defense didn't shave 2 runs off Peavy and Floyd's ERAs.

Well, you don't, by chance, think it wouldn't help quite a bit? It's not just about making throwing errors. It's also having people out there who will make tough plays that would otherwise be hits, thus hurting Peavy and Floyd's ERA.

Saying what you said is disingenuous.

TheOldRoman
09-09-2010, 11:49 AM
Not trolling...

Someone stated that this team is better without Teahen on the field.
You said "no, it isn't."

I'm not blaming all the faults of this team on Teahen, or last nights game.

Nor do I deny your valid points about the pitching staff.

I just have hard time wrapping my mind around the thought that removing a subpar defender would not make a team better.

I obviously misunderstood your intent - apologies.I specifically said the team WAS better without Teahen starting at thirdbase.Well, you don't, by chance, think it wouldn't help quite a bit? It's not just about making throwing errors. It's also having people out there who will make tough plays that would otherwise be hits, thus hurting Peavy and Floyd's ERA.

Saying what you said is disingenuous.Obviously him playing 3B poorly will lead to him making mistakes which aren't credited as errors, extending innings, etc, which will increase pitchers' ERAs. However, not 2 runs worth. Peavy and Floyd were completely different pitchers in June than in April. Teahen wasn't hexing Floyd and taking the break out of his curveball in April. Teahen wasn't taking away Peavy's location and sometimes velocity. Everything started clicking in June for the Sox (which is what has historically happened over the past several years - ice cold start, red hot in June). They were hitting, pitching, and fielding. Losing Teahen only improved one of those aspects.

Hitmen77
09-09-2010, 11:52 AM
I knew that Teahen would get the blame in this thread and yes, the inning could have been over if he makes a solid throw to second, but the fact remains the offense was non-existent and Danks failed to pitch over Teahen's error.

You know what an ace does in a situation like that? He strikes out the next two batters on 6 pitches walks to the dugout and nods at his third baseman. Instead, Danks clearly let it get the best of him walking the next guy and then serving up a meatball to score the first two runs. I know Danks was pitching on short rest, but the fact remains, that given the opportunity to be the ace so many here claim he is and that he seems to crave for himself, Danks instead got rattled and then melted down for several batters in a row.

What's the old joke about to err is human to really screw up it takes a computer. Well, Teahen made and error. Then Danks turned that error into a disaster.

Go ahead, flame me, but unearned runs are still runs and it's the pitchers job to prevent all runs. Danks failed and I blame him a heck of a lot more than I do Teahen.

And again, the offense scratched out a single run for the second day in a row, so it's most likely moot anyway...

VC,
I just want the Sox to win the division. You don't do that by giving away extra outs to your opponents.

Was Danks perfect? Was the offense acceptable? No and no. But the most preventable mistake was Teahen's error. Just because Danks wasn't outstanding on 3 days rest and because the offense was bad does not excuse errors.

JB98
09-09-2010, 12:37 PM
VC,
I just want the Sox to win the division. You don't do that by giving away extra outs to your opponents.

Was Danks perfect? Was the offense acceptable? No and no. But the most preventable mistake was Teahen's error. Just because Danks wasn't outstanding on 3 days rest and because the offense was bad does not excuse errors.

Agreed. Teahen blew last night's game. Danks pitched around Teahen's first error. He couldn't pitch around the second one.

At some point, the 3B needs to make a ****ing play, for crying out loud.

voodoochile
09-09-2010, 04:22 PM
VC,
I just want the Sox to win the division. You don't do that by giving away extra outs to your opponents.

Was Danks perfect? Was the offense acceptable? No and no. But the most preventable mistake was Teahen's error. Just because Danks wasn't outstanding on 3 days rest and because the offense was bad does not excuse errors.

Oh I agree with all of that, but the fact remains if Danks doesn't melt down after the error the Sox would have still been winning. The fact he not only melted down, but absolutely sucked for the next several batters allowed the kittens to build a solid lead and the rest snowballed.

He's got to be better than that is all I am saying. No, I don't excuse Teahen but after the error the Sox were still winning 1-0 with a DP still possible.

Teahen gave the kittens a pile of charcoal. Danks added the starter fluid and lit the match.