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View Full Version : Why is it thought the sox will trade danks or floyd?


ghostface36
09-08-2010, 07:03 PM
why do i see people posting this? why would we want to get rid of either of them?

MtGrnwdSoxFan
09-08-2010, 07:41 PM
Because people are already crowning Chris Sale.

He's got potential, and he's been good out of the pen (which translates to "awesome" looking at how miserable the pen has been in the recent past), but he's likely going to need a full season of starting in the minors before the Sox even entertain the thought of having Sale in the rotation.

Rdy2PlayBall
09-08-2010, 07:42 PM
Because Jackson, and Sale have a 100% chance of being #1s, and Freddy could easily be a #3, and he'd be our #5. The Sox are spoiled with starters, and Danks could bring in some good hitting prospects.

teal

KMcMahon817
09-08-2010, 07:47 PM
That's a good question. At first thought, it seems counterproductive, but there are a few reasons why it would make sense.

1) Floyd is due for a big raise the next two seasons.
2) Danks has already turned down one contract extension and many suppose he will want big money, which is a fair assumption.
3) The SOX starting staff will still be a strength without Danks or Floyd, if everyone is healthy.
Peavy
Buehrle
Danks or Floyd
Jackson
Freddy, FA, or Sale
4) With Konerko and AJ both FA after this season, the SOX could move Danks or Floyd to fill up the hole at C or 1B, or 3B for that matter.

With that said, I don't think KW is going to trade either of them.

Jpgr91
09-08-2010, 07:50 PM
why do i see people posting this? why would we want to get rid of either of them?

The Sox could deal for an Elite player (think Fielder) with a package built around Danks or Floyd. The team could then turn around and sign a serviceable 5th starter for 3-4 million. The Sox would be in much better shape with a rotation of MB/Peavy/Jackson/Danks or Floyd / FA Pick up and an Elite bat than they would be with both Danks/Floyd in rotation. It makes too much sense for it not to happen.

ChicagoG19
09-08-2010, 07:55 PM
You can never have enough pitching. If you got it already, try to keep it.

Jpgr91
09-08-2010, 07:58 PM
You can never have enough pitching. If you got it already, try to keep it.

That depends what other holes you have on your team. In the Sox case, they really need an impact bat if they expect to compete in the AL. If they are able to take a small downgrade near the bottom of the rotation for a huge upgrade at DH/1B or wherever it may be, they would be crazy not to make the deal.

UofCSoxFan
09-08-2010, 08:09 PM
There's a difference between saying the Sox want to trade Danks or Floyd and saying there's a possibility they will.

Right now the Sox have 6 guys that can start and would likely be frontrunners to bring back Freddy Garcia as a starter for a 7th option.

1) Buehrle will not be traded.
2) Jackson very likely won't be traded
3) Floyd likely won't be traded since he signed the extension (I have no idea why the OP included him with Danks).
4) Freddy likes playing here and would love to stay.
5) Sale was drafted as a starter. The only reasons he is a relief pitcher now is that a) the Sox wanted him to make an impact this year and b) the Sox wanted to limit his innins since he threw a lot in college. Make no mistake about it, Sale will be given the opportunity at some point in the next two years to fail as a starter. I don't know what he has done in college or since being in pro ball to prove that he can't be a top 3 starter.
6) Peavy...you aren't going to get nearly enough value for Peavy coming off an injury to trade him. All reports are he will be back healthy next year. If you are worried you resign Garcia as insurance.

That leaves 7..John Danks. Danks has refused to sign a long term deal and will require big bucks his next contract. The Sox usually don't like to give long deals to starters so it is a good possibility he will not be a White Sox in two years even if the Sox want him back. If you can get a stud bat for him, the White Sox should consider it.

KW has proven he will trade a beloved player without thinking twice. You also don't need 7 starters on your team, especially when you may have to replace PK at 1B and you also need to find a DH and possibly a 3B since Teahen is a butcher there and RF if you decide to punt on the Q experiment.

Do the Sox want to trade Danks no? But if he doesn't want to sign an extension and you can get good talent back, you have to strongly consider it, especially since the Sox would be trading from a source of strengh.

7 starters don't do much good when you may have holes at the 4 of the 5 main major offensive spots in 3B, 1B, RF, and DH.

A. Cavatica
09-08-2010, 09:17 PM
Because Jackson, and Sale have a 100% chance of being #1s, and Freddy could easily be a #3, and he'd be our #5. The Sox are spoiled with starters, and Danks could bring in some good hitting prospects.

teal

Didn't see the "teal" at first. You had me going.

Noneck
09-08-2010, 09:34 PM
Very few Sox players have much worth. Only Danks, Floyd, Sale, A.Ramirez and Beckham have much worth. Since the Sox dont go after big FA's and have a poor minor league system, they may be forced to trade one of the above in order to get a big name player that they think can make the club better.

sox1970
09-08-2010, 09:39 PM
To me, you start the season with Peavy, Buehrle, Danks, Floyd, and Jackson. You start Sale in the minors, and when Peavy gets hurt again, you have Sale there and stretched out and ready to go.

And if Peavy or nobody else gets hurt, then you can bring up Sale at the All Star break to be in the bullpen. 2012--Sale goes in the rotation from the beginning.

doublem23
09-08-2010, 10:14 PM
The Sox currently have $43.75 M committed to Peavy ($16 M), Buehrle ($14 M), Jackson ($8.75 M), and Floyd ($5 M) and that's before you consider John Danks, who is making $3.45 M and is arbitration eligible next year. It's pretty easy to see the Sox having to spend $50 M on their pitching staff next year if they keep everyone, leaving them roughly $50-$60 M to dole out amongst the remaining 20 players.

Now, we have Rios ($12.5 M), Pierre ($8.5 M), Linebrink ($5.5 M), Teahen ($4.75 M), Viciedo ($2.25 M), and Alexei ($1.225 M) all under guaranteed deals next year. Those 6 players take up $34.75 M. That leaves us with roughly $15.25-$25.25 M for 14 players and doesn't even take into account that Jenks, Quentin, and Tony Pena are also arb eligible in 2011.

Since winning the World Series, the Sox Opening Day payroll has averaged $106 M. You can see how restrictive the payroll is getting, it's likely someone has to go. Danks is the most obvious because he's a young lefty, a coveted commodity that would likely net the biggest return for the Sox, and they have yet to be able to sign him to a long-term deal.

Noneck
09-08-2010, 10:27 PM
The Sox currently have $43.75 M committed to Peavy ($16 M), Buehrle ($14 M), Jackson ($8.75 M), and Floyd ($5 M) and that's before you consider John Danks, who is making $3.45 M and is arbitration eligible next year. It's pretty easy to see the Sox having to spend $50 M on their pitching staff next year if they keep everyone, leaving them roughly $50-$60 M to dole out amongst the remaining 20 players.

Now, we have Rios ($12.5 M), Pierre ($8.5 M), Linebrink ($5.5 M), Teahen ($4.75 M), Viciedo ($2.25 M), and Alexei ($1.225 M) all under guaranteed deals next year. Those 6 players take up $34.75 M. That leaves us with roughly $15.25-$25.25 M for 14 players and doesn't even take into account that Jenks, Quentin, and Tony Pena are also arb eligible in 2011.

Since winning the World Series, the Sox Opening Day payroll has averaged $106 M. You can see how restrictive the payroll is getting, it's likely someone has to go. Danks is the most obvious because he's a young lefty, a coveted commodity that would likely net the biggest return for the Sox, and they have yet to be able to sign him to a long-term deal.

Trading Danks will only make the money situation worse if thats your concern. I am sure whoever they would get in return, will make more than what Danks does.

doublem23
09-08-2010, 10:41 PM
Trading Danks will only make the money situation worse if thats your concern. I am sure whoever they would get in return, will make more than what Danks does.

What is the estimate on Danks' salary next season? $7-$8M?

It's not even so much they money, it's that the Sox are very pitching rich, moving Danks still leaves Peavy, Buehrle, Floyd, Jackson, Somebody. Their lineup for next season right now is

Pierre, LF
Ramirez, SS
Rios, CF
Quentin, RF (unless he's non-tendered)
Guy making $2 M, DH
Guy making $2 M, 1B
Teahen, 3B
Flowers, C
Bacon, 2B

It's not entirely the money, the Sox just need some players to fill out that lineup card.

Note that I'm not advocating trading Danks, or any our SP, but the way the team is assembled now, they've got some issues that need to be addressed.

Noneck
09-08-2010, 10:57 PM
It's not entirely the money, the Sox just need some players to fill out that lineup card.

Note that I'm not advocating trading Danks, or any our SP, but the way the team is assembled now, they've got some issues that need to be addressed.

I dont see trading Danks as a money issue, actually I dont see a money issue next year considering 38M is coming off the books after next year (Burls, Jackson, Pierre, Linebrink)

Danks as I said before is one of the very few Sox players that have worth, if holes should be filled, you have to give to get.

doublem23
09-08-2010, 11:03 PM
I dont see trading Danks as a money issue, actually I dont see a money issue next year considering 38M is coming off the books after next year (Burls, Jackson, Pierre, Linebrink)

Danks as I said before is one of the very few Sox players that have worth, if holes should be filled, you have to give to get.

The problem with that thinking, IMO, is that with Buehrle and Jackson, the window of opportunity starts to close after 2011. Of course, there's a lot of moves that could be made between now and then, but aside from Sale, the Sox have no pitching in the minors and KW has proven to be a strike-out artist on the free agent market.

By trading Hudson for Jackson, the Sox pushed all their chips in the 2010-2011 pot. They need to figure out something, because cutting corners offensively obviously didn't work this year, it's unlikely to work in the future.

soxinem1
09-08-2010, 11:04 PM
What is the estimate on Danks' salary next season? $7-$8M?

It's not even so much they money, it's that the Sox are very pitching rich, moving Danks still leaves Peavy, Buehrle, Floyd, Jackson, Somebody. Their lineup for next season right now is

Pierre, LF
Ramirez, SS
Rios, CF
Quentin, RF (unless he's non-tendered)
Guy making $2 M, DH
Guy making $2 M, 1B
Teahen, 3B
Flowers, C
Bacon, 2B

It's not entirely the money, the Sox just need some players to fill out that lineup card.

Note that I'm not advocating trading Danks, or any our SP, but the way the team is assembled now, they've got some issues that need to be addressed.

Since you are removing PK, AJ, and Manny off the roster (which may happen), I think that lineup guarantees a season about on par with the 2007 White Sox.

I sure hope 1B, DH, and 3B are given a little more than what your lineup shows.

Noneck
09-08-2010, 11:09 PM
The problem with that thinking, IMO, is that with Buehrle and Jackson, the window of opportunity starts to close after 2011. Of course, there's a lot of moves that could be made between now and then, but aside from Sale, the Sox have no pitching in the minors and KW has proven to be a strike-out artist on the free agent market.

By trading Hudson for Jackson, the Sox pushed all their chips in the 2010-2011 pot. They need to figure out something, because cutting corners offensively obviously didn't work this year, it's unlikely to work in the future.

Do you think there is a real possibility that the Sox could and would sign Buehrle and Jackson? I dont know about Buehrle but Jackson will demand big bucks and long term, this is his big pay day time. Buehrle is sliding down the pitching rotation to a 4 or 5 on a descent staff, in 2012 I dont see him as much of a factor.

doublem23
09-08-2010, 11:11 PM
Since you are removing PK, AJ, and Manny off the roster (which may happen), I think that lineup guarantees a season about on par with the 2007 White Sox.

I sure hope 1B, DH, and 3B are given a little more than what your lineup shows.

Maybe KW and JR will surprise us and throw $10-$15 M more into payroll than normal, but if you're going by the 2005-Present average payroll of $106 M, I don't know where it's going to come from, unless we can find a few players who really want to play for the Sox.

doublem23
09-08-2010, 11:13 PM
Do you think there is a real possibility that the Sox could and would sign Buehrle and Jackson? I dont know about Buehrle but Jackson will demand big bucks and long term, this is his big pay day time. Buehrle is sliding down the pitching rotation to a 4 or 5 on a descent staff, in 2012 I dont see him as much of a factor.

I don't think it's out of the question, but I have significant reasons to doubt both, as well. If Jackson continues to pitch this well next season, he and his agent (Scott Boras) are going to command a huge payday, one the Sox will likely (and probably should) pass on. As for Buehrle, I really don't know what to think. Of course, he's hinted at retiring when his deal is up, I'm not sure if I believe that. He took a hometown discount to stay here, but maybe he see the writing on the wall and wants to move to the NL and pitch like an All-Star for a few more years.

Let me just say, after 2011, I don't think both will be back.

mcsoxfan
09-08-2010, 11:22 PM
why do i see people posting this? why would we want to get rid of either of them?

We have a group of owners who refuse to let their GM compete like other big market GMs in free agency. As long as this current group is in power, the Sox will be forever filling one whole while creating two others.

DumpJerry
09-08-2010, 11:33 PM
Freddy is done. He will work out fine on a team that is not a contender, but if a team is a contender, I don't see him on their roster next year.

Hitmen77
09-08-2010, 11:44 PM
The Sox currently have $43.75 M committed to Peavy ($16 M), Buehrle ($14 M), Jackson ($8.75 M), and Floyd ($5 M) and that's before you consider John Danks, who is making $3.45 M and is arbitration eligible next year. It's pretty easy to see the Sox having to spend $50 M on their pitching staff next year if they keep everyone, leaving them roughly $50-$60 M to dole out amongst the remaining 20 players.

Now, we have Rios ($12.5 M), Pierre ($8.5 M), Linebrink ($5.5 M), Teahen ($4.75 M), Viciedo ($2.25 M), and Alexei ($1.225 M) all under guaranteed deals next year. Those 6 players take up $34.75 M. That leaves us with roughly $15.25-$25.25 M for 14 players and doesn't even take into account that Jenks, Quentin, and Tony Pena are also arb eligible in 2011.

Since winning the World Series, the Sox Opening Day payroll has averaged $106 M. You can see how restrictive the payroll is getting, it's likely someone has to go. Danks is the most obvious because he's a young lefty, a coveted commodity that would likely net the biggest return for the Sox, and they have yet to be able to sign him to a long-term deal.

:cuss:

Jpgr91
09-09-2010, 12:31 AM
The problem with that thinking, IMO, is that with Buehrle and Jackson, the window of opportunity starts to close after 2011. Of course, there's a lot of moves that could be made between now and then, but aside from Sale, the Sox have no pitching in the minors and KW has proven to be a strike-out artist on the free agent market.

By trading Hudson for Jackson, the Sox pushed all their chips in the 2010-2011 pot. They need to figure out something, because cutting corners offensively obviously didn't work this year, it's unlikely to work in the future.

It seems that KW maneuvering the roster so that he has maximum flexibility heading into 2012. The Sox have a ton of cash coming off the books after 2011 (MB, Pierre, Linebrink, Jackson, Thornton). Given that he acquired 2 of these players in trades, I do not think it can simply be attributed to coincidence that so much money is coming off the books at the same time.

I would not be surprised to see KW make a huge move for 2011 for a player that comes off the books after the season. With the payroll flexibility KW has given himself, he can retain all the young players that he has hoped develop in the future of the franchise. In the event that the "young" players don't work out, he has assured a competitive team in 2011 and has given the organization flexibility to go in a new direction in 2012. It is also important to remember that the Sox will have two type A Free Agents in Jackson and Thornton that are highly unlikely to accept arbitration, assuring the Sox 4 high picks in the 2012 draft.

I love the way that KW has maximized his options heading into 2012.

doublem23
09-09-2010, 12:32 AM
We have a group of owners who refuse to let their GM compete like other big market GMs in free agency. As long as this current group is in power, the Sox will be forever filling one whole while creating two others.

Just so we're clear, you're talking about the team that's in the Top 10 of player payroll annually for the last 5 seasons and is constantly either #1 or #2 within his division, right?

****, Reinsdorf & Co. are the only people pulling their weight all year long.

GAsoxfan
09-09-2010, 07:31 AM
It's not even so much they money, it's that the Sox are very pitching rich, moving Danks still leaves Peavy, Buehrle, Floyd, Jackson, .

The Sox are pitching rich for 2011, but it could be a weakness in 2012 and beyond. If the Sox trade Danks for offense, and then Buehrle and Jackson walk after 2011, the rotation would be Peavy/Floyd/Sale/?/?. With no other ML caliber pitching prospects in the system and the inflated cost of FA pitchers, that would be a scary rotation.

doublem23
09-09-2010, 08:44 AM
The Sox are pitching rich for 2011, but it could be a weakness in 2012 and beyond. If the Sox trade Danks for offense, and then Buehrle and Jackson walk after 2011, the rotation would be Peavy/Floyd/Sale/?/?. With no other ML caliber pitching prospects in the system and the inflated cost of FA pitchers, that would be a scary rotation.

:dunno:

During his time here, Kenny has consistently targeted and acquired MLB-caliber pitching through trades; it backfired the first 2 times with David Wells and Todd Ritchie, but since then the Sox have acquired Bartolo Colon, Freddy Garcia, Jose Contreras, Gavin Floyd, John Danks, Jake Peavy, and Edwin Jackson... Who knows what he's got up his sleeve.

Go White Sox
09-09-2010, 08:55 AM
Me and my mom were talking bout this the other day....i told her that the Sox are gonna trade a pitcher this offseason...

If i had to guess next yrs rotation would be

Buehrle
Peavy (Assuming he comes back on time)
Floyd
Jackson
Sale/Freddy

I think Danks will be traded especially since he wont sign a long term deal with the Sox

Craig Grebeck
09-09-2010, 09:23 AM
It wouldn't surprise me, though I'm against it. You don't break up a 1-5 like that, even if you have Sale -- and I'm not sold on him as a starter ever, let alone in 2011.

MtGrnwdSoxFan
09-09-2010, 09:52 AM
It wouldn't surprise me, though I'm against it. You don't break up a 1-5 like that, even if you have Sale -- and I'm not sold on him as a starter ever, let alone in 2011.

What makes you say that you don't see him as a starter, ever?

Craig Grebeck
09-09-2010, 04:29 PM
I want to see him have a full year in the minors in 2011.