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View Full Version : Ozzie Guillen, the player


Rdy2PlayBall
08-29-2010, 01:07 PM
When I overheard Ozzie saying he hopes his number is the next the Sox retire, I was interested in looking up his stats. I'm too young to have watched Ozzie and remember, and I'm almost too young to say the same for Thomas, so I don't know much about the career of Ozzie because I never watched him. So I took a look at his stats....

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/guilloz01.shtml

If KW made a trade for a guy that plays like this, I would probably go nuts. His offensive stats look nearly as bad as it gets. Career .287 OBP?

So I wanted to hear some of those peoples memories what were able to watch him as a player... because there must be some kind of hype considering he made it into a lineup 13 years in a row for the Sox. Was his defense that spectacular? He only has one Gold Glove... Does he deserve his number retired for his duties with the Sox, as a player and manager? I'm just curious why this guy is so cocky, because I missed pretty much everything he has done besides managing.

BringHomeDaBacon
08-29-2010, 01:32 PM
To be named ROY and make the all star team three times, Ozzie must have played with a horseshoe stuck in his rectum.

LITTLE NELL
08-29-2010, 01:38 PM
Thing I remember about him, solid defensive player, good speed, did not strike out a lot but did not take too many pitches, could have had many more walks than he did.
As far as his number being retired, forget it.
He is probably the 4th best shortstop in Sox history after Appling, Aparicio and TCM.
As best Sox manager he can't compare with Lopez, Dykes, LaRussa, Paul Richards(50s version) and a few others

WhiteSox5187
08-29-2010, 06:12 PM
Thing I remember about him, solid defensive player, good speed, did not strike out a lot but did not take too many pitches, could have had many more walks than he did.
As far as his number being retired, forget it.
He is probably the 4th best shortstop in Sox history after Appling, Aparicio and TCM.
As best Sox manager he can't compare with Lopez, Dykes, LaRussa, Paul Richards(50s version) and a few others

If Ozzie wins another World Series he will deserve some consideration for his number being retired, but I don't like retiring numbers for managers.

bridgeportcopper
08-29-2010, 07:45 PM
The Gold Glove thing is subjective. He was pretty darn good but the east-coast hype machines and better offensive numbers of Ripken, and later A-Rod and Jeter weren't going to allow him a chance, and then along came Vizquel as well if I remember correctly.

happydude
08-29-2010, 09:01 PM
Ozzie's offensive numbers were nothing to get excited about but, at the time he came up, shortstop was not considered an offensive position. Ripken, and years later Jeter and Rodriguez, were the exception to the rule. As a defender, Oz was not considered the best (the other Ozzie was still the best) but he was regarded as pretty good. The expectations of that position have evolved over the years to some degree.

tebman
08-29-2010, 09:27 PM
Bill James, the guru of sabermetrics, finds Ozzie to be un-quantifiable because he believes his contributions as a player were much greater than his stats. There's an interesting reference here (http://www.chicagoreader.com/TheBlog/archives/2010/08/27/the-eternal-mystery-of-ozzie-guillen) to James' fascination with Ozzie as a player despite his unimpressive numbers.

I don't have his numbers handy but I remember him vividly as a player and agree with Bill James. As free-swinging and goofy as he was, he was the guy you wanted in the game to make things happen.

TDog
08-29-2010, 09:40 PM
Bill James, the guru of sabermetrics, finds Ozzie to be un-quantifiable because he believes his contributions as a player were much greater than his stats. There's an interesting reference here (http://www.chicagoreader.com/TheBlog/archives/2010/08/27/the-eternal-mystery-of-ozzie-guillen) to James' fascination with Ozzie as a player despite his unimpressive numbers.

I don't have his numbers handy but I remember him vividly as a player and agree with Bill James. As free-swinging and goofy as he was, he was the guy you wanted in the game to make things happen.

I was thinking of this. Ozzie Guillen was a pretty good offensive player, although you had to see him play to understand why because his stats don't back that up. He NEVER walked, but at least once he once walked with the bases loaded to win a game. He didn't drive in many runs, but the runs he drove in always seemed important.

But about four or five years ago, I got into an argument with some kid out of college who insisted that Aparicio didn't belong in the Hall of Fame. Aparicio retired before he was born, but he knew all he needed to know, having seen Aparicio's stats.

I can understand Guillen saying he wants the organization to retire his number. If I played all those years with the White Sox and came back to manage the team to its first World Series title in almost nine decades. I don't know that Guillen was saying his number deserves to be retired. I believe he is saying he wants to achieve the same honor -- which would seem to indicate that he doesn't plan on going anywhere.

TornLabrum
08-29-2010, 10:46 PM
Thing I remember about him, solid defensive player, good speed, did not strike out a lot but did not take too many pitches, could have had many more walks than he did.
As far as his number being retired, forget it.
He is probably the 4th best shortstop in Sox history after Appling, Aparicio and TCM.
As best Sox manager he can't compare with Lopez, Dykes, LaRussa, Paul Richards(50s version) and a few others

Except none of them ever brought home a pennant except for Lopez, and none of them brought home a World Championship.

Guillen was an excellent defensive shortstop until he had that collision with Tim Raines. One thing that doesn't show up in the stats is that if the Sox needed a hit late in the game, Ozzie would deliver more often than anybody on the team at that time. He started more late rallies and drove in more late runs (8th-9th innings) than anybody I can think of who has ever played with the Sox in my lifetime.

Daver
08-29-2010, 10:54 PM
Except none of them ever brought home a pennant except for Lopez, and none of them brought home a World Championship.

Guillen was an excellent defensive shortstop until he had that collision with Tim Raines. One thing that doesn't show up in the stats is that if the Sox needed a hit late in the game, Ozzie would deliver more often than anybody on the team at that time. He started more late rallies and drove in more late runs (8th-9th innings) than anybody I can think of who has ever played with the Sox in my lifetime.

He also never saw an eye high outside fastball he didn't like, though I will give him credit, he got more hits off pitches out of the strike zone than most players I have ever seen, Frank might be the only one that tops him from the White Sox.

WhiteSox5187
08-30-2010, 12:03 AM
He also never saw an eye high outside fastball he didn't like, though I will give him credit, he got more hits off pitches out of the strike zone than most players I have ever seen, Frank might be the only one that tops him from the White Sox.

I don't remember Ozzie much as a player (other than one time in 1996 he asked me to wait one minute before signing an autograph and then didn't sign it...if I ever see him I will ask him for that autograph), but I thought the thing with Frank was that he NEVER went out of the zone.

Daver
08-30-2010, 12:11 AM
I don't remember Ozzie much as a player (other than one time in 1996 he asked me to wait one minute before signing an autograph and then didn't sign it...if I ever see him I will ask him for that autograph), but I thought the thing with Frank was that he NEVER went out of the zone.

Frank developed a reputation based on history with the umps, if he didn't swing it was probably not a strike, but he also got tired of being pitched around and was very good out golfballing low pitches for hits, I remember watching one that I swore hit the dirt that ended up twenty rows back in the left field stands.

Rdy2PlayBall
08-30-2010, 02:08 AM
Good to know all of this, since I wasn't around to appreciate seeing him play. His stats almost make me want to laugh, but I DEFINITELY understand the whole attitude behind him. It also must have been the attitude around the league as well considering he was an All-Star and won the Rookie of the year award. I wish I was around to witness a player that can be affective without the eye-popping stats.

No wonder I never understood the attitude surrounding him. :tongue:
Thanks for the article Tebman, I'll definitely read that.

Soxfest
08-30-2010, 02:41 AM
OG was poster child for slap hitter 101!

pistolesatdawn
08-30-2010, 03:04 AM
Wasn't Ozzie leading the league in BA before the All-Star break one year or near the top? Seems like it was sometime between '87-'89.

jdm2662
08-30-2010, 10:24 AM
Wasn't Ozzie leading the league in BA before the All-Star break one year or near the top? Seems like it was sometime between '87-'89.

In 1990, his average topped at .355. He was one of the reasons why the Sox got off to a great start. It was .324 at the break, but it dropped to .279 by the end of the season.

LongLiveFisk
08-30-2010, 11:26 AM
Ozzie was always fun to watch at the plate. I remember once he squared around to bunt and brought the infield in and then he proceeded to take a full swing at the pitch and got a basehit (I think opposite field over the third baseman's head).

When he first came up in '85 it seemed like he was always getting hits. At least everytime I watched him. And yes, his defense was very good. He could be somewhat acrobatic out there at times. He was just a fun, scrappy and intense player.

Zisk77
08-30-2010, 12:08 PM
Ozzie was Ichiroesque in his ability to smaoke a pitch that bounced or nearly bounced and ones over his head. In Hawks greastest ever saw tangents Ozzie was the best splitter hitter.

Ozzie also started the uglu pine tar pitted helmet thing, man was that one ugly helmet.

Ozzie was always over shadowed at ss by mor flamboyant players. He broke in with Shawon Dunston and Tony Fernandez. Which ss you think garnered the most press in CHI?

Ozzie was a much better defender than Dunston but lacked his arm or power at the plate (but was better hitter too). Tony Fernandez was favorite to win Al ROY but ozzie outplayed him.