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View Full Version : Have you started to lose faith in Quentin yet?


Danielgosox38
08-27-2010, 02:45 PM
I'm starting to wonder if the guy will ever be what he was.

hi im skot
08-27-2010, 02:47 PM
No.

doublem23
08-27-2010, 02:48 PM
No.

Coops4Aces
08-27-2010, 02:48 PM
He has 79 RBIs. His BA is weak but I'm not worried at all.

TheOldRoman
08-27-2010, 02:49 PM
He is still a valuable player, but no, he won't reach his potential under the current regime. Walker found things which needed "tweaking" and now he is an all or nothing power hitter. I'm sure Greg is working on bringing down Carlos' walks, too. As Walker said before, walks aren't usually a good thing since they take the bat out of your hands.

hawkjt
08-27-2010, 02:53 PM
Hell,no.

Batting coaches are overrated.
Pitching coaches are underrated.

Carlos has had RBI's the last two games...and will exceed 100 rbis,I predict. He is showing signs of going on a tear and that could carry the Sox to the division title.

mzh
08-27-2010, 02:54 PM
He's gotta be hitting the hardest .240 in baseball. He still an .800+ OPS hitter, He doesn't strike out all that much, and most importantly, his BABIP is .228. Considering that he's struck out at a relatively average rate, it seems he's run into some seriously ****ty luck this year. No.

MeteorsSox4367
08-27-2010, 02:55 PM
No. His batting average could be higher, but his HR and RBI numbers are solid.

I also like the fact that he gets ticked at himself when he doesn't come through. I'd much rather have someone who demonstrates some emotion rather than appearing as though he'd rather be somewhere else.

Consider me pro-TCQ.

LITTLE NELL
08-27-2010, 02:59 PM
If you looked up streaky in Websters there would be a picture of TCQ.
I'm not ready to give up on him yet.
It would be nice to get one injury free season out of him, when he was on a tear back in June and early July he got hurt and has been so-so ever since.

WhiteSox5187
08-27-2010, 03:03 PM
I don't think he's ever going to hit .280 or so that he hit in '08. I think he will be a low average guy with lots of power. He will also be incredibly streaky and at times hit everything that is thrown to him and then at other times not hit a damn thing. He also has to be a DH, he is just so bad in RF it's not even funny.

Rdy2PlayBall
08-27-2010, 03:05 PM
No. The guy is going to get near 100 RBIs this season...

RCWHITESOX
08-27-2010, 03:21 PM
I have definitely not lost faith . Give me a guy who can hit 30 HR and drive in 100 every time over a 300 hitter who can't post the same. His biggest problem has been staying healthy. Hopefully he can continue to improve and stay healthy.

Pablo_Honey
08-27-2010, 03:25 PM
I've lost faith in him long time ago when he started to swing for the fences every time he came up to the plate. He still walks and avoid strikeouts well enough but he is no longer the hitter he was in '08. He is simply too homerun-centric these days.

Having said that, I can tolerate his presence on this team as long as we don't expect him to carry our team to postseason. He's a cost-effective average right fielder with a decent stick. We are not the Yankees so we can't expect to have All Stars at every position.

russ99
08-27-2010, 03:31 PM
I have definitely not lost faith . Give me a guy who can hit 30 HR and drive in 100 every time over a 300 hitter who can't post the same. His biggest problem has been staying healthy. Hopefully he can continue to improve and stay healthy.

It's not black and white, HR/RBI guys vs. high average guys, see this year's HR leaders. Also, look at Rios, he hits around .300 with plenty of HRs and runs.

I'm really concerned with Carlos' average, since it's seemingly all mental. He has the ability to hit .280-.290, but he's his own worst enemy at the plate. Maybe another hitting coach could shake him out of that.

He's going to command more salary next year and I'm not sure how longer the Sox will put up with Jack Cust numbers for higher and higher salary, along with how injury prone he's become.

nccwsfan
08-27-2010, 03:37 PM
Many teams would be thrilled to have his production in their lineup, so no I haven't lost faith in him at all.

Crestani
08-27-2010, 03:45 PM
NO;
As soon as he learns to handle breaking pitches away...He will be lethal..!!

thomas35forever
08-27-2010, 04:04 PM
Nope. I think he's fine.

LoveYourSuit
08-27-2010, 04:08 PM
With arbitration numbers coming out soon for both he and Danks, I would be looking to move both sooner than later. More he than Danks.

But I think Danks has very good trade value out there for us to be able to get a premier bat in here next year.

thomas35forever
08-27-2010, 04:09 PM
With arbitration numbers coming out soon for both he and Danks, I would be looking to move both sooner than later. More he than Danks.

But I think Danks has very good trade value out there for us to be able to get a premier bat in here next year.
Who takes Danks' place in the rotation then? I don't want him to go anywhere.

Lip Man 1
08-27-2010, 04:15 PM
I'm assuming Love is looking at a rotation nex year of Buehrle, Peavy, Jackson, Floyd and Garcia.

Lip

BringHomeDaBacon
08-27-2010, 04:18 PM
The average is low but let's look at some of his other numbers compared to AL outfielders:

HR - 3rd
RBI - 5th
Runs - 16th
OPS - 8th

Looks pretty damn good to me.

Rdy2PlayBall
08-27-2010, 04:19 PM
I'm assuming Love is looking at a rotation nex year of Buehrle, Peavy, Jackson, Floyd and Garcia.

LipJackson needs more starts until he can replace Danks IMO, and Garcia again, another year older... :puking:
I'd rather have the safe bet with Jackson at #5 and hope the #5 starter ends up being Buehrle or someone... that would be a great rotation.

hi im skot
08-27-2010, 04:19 PM
I'm assuming Love is looking at a rotation nex year of Buehrle, Peavy, Jackson, Floyd and Garcia.

Lip

If Garcia is in the rotation next year, god help us all.

LoveYourSuit
08-27-2010, 04:20 PM
Who takes Danks' place in the rotation then? I don't want him to go anywhere.


I would be looking at Garcia or Sale if he is 100% ready.

I know it's crazy to trade pitching, but I think we have that luxury going into next season. And we badly need a premier bat too.

LoveYourSuit
08-27-2010, 04:22 PM
If Garcia is in the rotation next year, god help us all.

I think Garcia has not been that bad this year. For a 5th starter and his salary, you can live with that.

Rdy2PlayBall
08-27-2010, 04:22 PM
I would be looking at Garcia or Sale if he is 100% ready.

I know it's crazy to trade pitching, but I think we have that luxury going into next season. And we badly need a premier bat too.I would think it's easier to go out and get a decent DH than go out and get a great pitcher like Danks. Lets not forget the seasonally bull-pen meltdown, we need as much starting depth as humanly possible.

LoveYourSuit
08-27-2010, 04:25 PM
I would think it's easier to go out and get a decent DH than go out and get a great pitcher like Danks. Lets not forget the seasonally bull-pen meltdown, we need as much starting depth as humanly possible.


Danks is not a "great" pitcher yet.

He's good, not great.

Sox have big choices to make next offseason with the offense.

I think you have to bring Paulie back along with another good bat.

hi im skot
08-27-2010, 04:29 PM
I think Garcia has not been that bad this year. For a 5th starter and his salary, you can live with that.

You're right, but we've been pushing our luck with Freddy all season. I don't expect him to replicate his 2010 performance next season.

Tragg
08-27-2010, 04:33 PM
He hasn't been great, but he's okay...undoubtedly better than what we'd get if we traded him.
Hard to get on his case, when there are far more significant holes.

voodoochile
08-27-2010, 04:33 PM
I'm starting to wonder if the guy will ever be what he was.

Even if he's not an MVP candidate every year, that doesn't mean he's not worth anything. It's a perspective issue, IMO. He's putting up good numbers this year already and I think those can go higher.

soxfanreggie
08-27-2010, 04:33 PM
I think you have to bring Paulie back along with another good bat.

I agree. For what we've gotten out of him and could get in the future, he's definitely worth a 2-year deal worth a total of say $16-20 million. It is less than his last deal, but it helps show him that we want him to retire a member of the White Sox. We could even add a club option for a third year that could vest under certain circumstances for him.

Rdy2PlayBall
08-27-2010, 04:38 PM
I agree. For what we've gotten out of him and could get in the future, he's definitely worth a 2-year deal worth a total of say $16-20 million. It is less than his last deal, but it helps show him that we want him to retire a member of the White Sox. We could even add a club option for a third year that could vest under certain circumstances for him.Maybe $12-16 million tops... with incentives if he wants more. Your talking about a lot of money there.

Rdy2PlayBall
08-27-2010, 04:41 PM
Danks is not a "great" pitcher yet.

He's good, not great.

Sox have big choices to make next offseason with the offense.

I think you have to bring Paulie back along with another good bat.It depends what you consider "great"... I still think it's easier to find a good DH than a pitcher of Danks quality... I hope they lock up Danks for a while.

PalehosePlanet
08-27-2010, 04:42 PM
Considering that this the first year -- the first 2 months anyway -- that Carlos has struggled while healthy, I'd say that he'll be fine. I think he's rebounded nicely. Also we're a different team when he hits.

As far as Danks goes, I agree w/LYS. If Danks proves difficult to sign this winter, you can kiss him goodbye. Kenny was already "dismayed" once when he didn't sign, if it happens again --- well, we all know Kenny.

Rdy2PlayBall
08-27-2010, 04:43 PM
As far as Danks goes, I agree w/LYS. If Danks proves difficult to sign this winter, you can kiss him goodbye. Kenny was already "dismayed" once when he didn't sign, if it happens again --- well, we all know Kenny.It's not like Danks has been disrespectful. He has done nothing negative towards this organization and is just looking at his own best interests. Plus, his little bro is in our system, he doens't want out of Chicago.

PalehosePlanet
08-27-2010, 04:53 PM
It's not like Danks has been disrespectful. He has done nothing negative towards this organization and is just looking at his own best interests. Plus, his little bro is in our system, he doens't want out of Chicago.

I didn't say he did anything wrong. Nor do I want to trade him. I'm just worried that Kenny will take it personally, get pissed, and trade him for fear of not being able to sign him when the time comes.

Good, young left-handed starting pitching is always at a premium demand. If he is traded I would expect an excellent return.

Rdy2PlayBall
08-27-2010, 05:07 PM
I didn't say he did anything wrong. Nor do I want to trade him. I'm just worried that Kenny will take it personally, get pissed, and trade him for fear of not being able to sign him when the time comes.

Good, young left-handed starting pitching is always at a premium demand. If he is traded I would expect an excellent return.The Sox are 6th in BA, 7th in RBIs, 4th in HR. That's about an average offense. That's with counting the TERRIBLE start they got off to. If they start the season out even decently next year, we're looking at probably 3rd or 4th in all of these categories. The offense is a weakness, but we don't have the luxury of trading a KEY piece of our pitching staff for a good bat. Pitching and defense wins championships... and Danks is one of our best (if not the best) pitchers on the staff. We have NO IDEA if Peavy will be effective when he gets back, I don't think it's worth the risk.

I say bring back everyone from this year, minus Kotsay/Jones, and try and also look to get an upgrade over Teahen. If KW puts a year extension on Manny, we might not even have to make any moves besides re-signing everyone. The whole offense seems to be coming together, mainly Beckham... I would hate to see our pitching staff become average just for a possible good return for Danks. We CAN'T bank on Garcia having a similar year next year, that would be unrealistic dreaming.

I don't see how KW could take it personally either... Danks is a great guy and shows no signs of having little respect for the organization.

JermaineDye05
08-27-2010, 07:19 PM
No.

Carlos is like a Jim Thome type hitter.

He's never gonna win you any batting titles because he's too streaky, but he's sure as hell has some pop and can drive in some runs.

cws05champ
08-27-2010, 07:29 PM
The only thing that frustrates me is when it's a clear situation to just move a runner to 3rd with no outs, or knock in a runner from 3rd with one out...he simply does not/will not shorten his swing or try to place the ball to the right side.

He could get hot as Hades for 2-3 weeks here and carry us to 1st place again...you never know. But the lack of fundamentals sometimes is what frustrates me.

TheOldRoman
08-27-2010, 07:40 PM
No.

Carlos is like a Jim Thome type hitter.

He's never gonna win you any batting titles because he's too streaky, but he's sure as hell has some pop and can drive in some runs.He doesn't strike out much as all, he is nothing like Thome other than the fact that they both take walks. Carlos was consistent in 2008. Then things were tweaked, his batting stance changed several times, and now he fits in perfectly with our recent history of all or nothing streaky power hitters.

daveeym
08-27-2010, 07:49 PM
The average is low but let's look at some of his other numbers compared to AL outfielders:

HR - 3rd
RBI - 5th
Runs - 16th
OPS - 8th

Looks pretty damn good to me.

I'm fine with Q but not as in love with him as most here. Paulie and 3ios are having career years in front of him and I really think he should have 20 more rbis than he does.

Taliesinrk
08-27-2010, 07:55 PM
If you looked up streaky in Websters there would be a picture of TCQ.

:uribe:

"Really?"

Tragg
08-27-2010, 11:10 PM
Quentin would be excellent as a DH next year or even in LF if PIerre doesn't return.
We need an athletic RF, but we've needed that for years, so Quentin may return.

But Quentin is the least of the problems on this team. Leave him alone.

Domeshot17
08-27-2010, 11:36 PM
This is who he is, so no. He isn't a player who can be the best player on a team. He isn't an mvp calibur player year in and year out. He is a guy who is going to hit 240-260 with 30-35 homers and 90-100 rbi. Very valuable, shouldn't be one of your best players.

He was incredibly lucky to do what he did in 2008. However, it was the outlier, not the norm. I would expect this year to be about what we will get if he can stay healthy.

This thread is just like Beckham. People expected Gordon to be an MVP. After a good but hardly fantastic rookie year, we were comparing him to 2 players he will never be: Utley and Longoria. Doesn't mean he isn't a fine player, but I think sometimes we set our expectations too high. Myself included. If we saw players for who they are (Beckham and Quentin solid contributors, borderline all stars, not mvp players at all...Floyd and Danks solid 2-3, never will be front line but very good etc.) we would be happier.

Rdy2PlayBall
08-27-2010, 11:38 PM
This is who he is, so no. He isn't a player who can be the best player on a team. He isn't an mvp calibur player year in and year out. He is a guy who is going to hit 240-260 with 30-35 homers and 90-100 rbi. Very valuable, shouldn't be one of your best players.

He was incredibly lucky to do what he did in 2008. However, it was the outlier, not the norm. I would expect this year to be about what we will get if he can stay healthy.Hes had some injuries this year... Maybe 2008 is what happens when he is completley nagging injury free. Those years may not come often, but there is always a chance. Either way, I can live with a guy who gets 100 RBIs a season but only bats .240. His OBP isn't bad for how low his BA is.

Domeshot17
08-27-2010, 11:40 PM
Hes had some injuries this year... Maybe 2008 is what happens when he is completley nagging injury free. Those years may not come often, but there is always a chance. Either way, I can live with a guy who gets 100 RBIs a season but only bats .240. His OBP isn't bad for how low his BA is.

Odds are we will never see anything like 2008 again out of him.

voodoochile
08-28-2010, 12:32 AM
He doesn't strike out much as all, he is nothing like Thome other than the fact that they both take walks. Carlos was consistent in 2008. Then things were tweaked, his batting stance changed several times, and now he fits in perfectly with our recent history of all or nothing streaky power hitters.

I think the only consistency he's found is that he consistently has been missing time due to one nagging injury or another. If/when he can get past that point he may settle in a bit more, but it's tough to find a rhythm with as much time as he's missed in the last two years.

Nelfox02
08-28-2010, 12:57 AM
lost faith that he will become the next great hitter in Sox history?---yes

lost faith that he can be a useful part of this team this year and at least next year?-----no

The guy can be an asset with the bat, no doubt

I just hope the sox dont intend on trotting out a line up that features him in the 4 hole next season.....

TheOldRoman
08-28-2010, 01:30 AM
This is who he is, so no. He isn't a player who can be the best player on a team. He isn't an mvp calibur player year in and year out. He is a guy who is going to hit 240-260 with 30-35 homers and 90-100 rbi. Very valuable, shouldn't be one of your best players.

He was incredibly lucky to do what he did in 2008. However, it was the outlier, not the norm. I would expect this year to be about what we will get if he can stay healthy.

This thread is just like Beckham. People expected Gordon to be an MVP. After a good but hardly fantastic rookie year, we were comparing him to 2 players he will never be: Utley and Longoria. Doesn't mean he isn't a fine player, but I think sometimes we set our expectations too high. Myself included. If we saw players for who they are (Beckham and Quentin solid contributors, borderline all stars, not mvp players at all...Floyd and Danks solid 2-3, never will be front line but very good etc.) we would be happier.That isn't true at all. Quentin was never going to be the .240-.260 hitter (which he isn't even hitting this year). He was a star. He tore through each level he had been at, and injuries were the only reason he was traded in the first place. He always had MVP type talent. He absolutely CAN be the best (offensive) player on a team and can be an MVP candidate. Of course I am pointing back to 2008, but he absolutely was the MVP of the league that season. Not only would he have won hands down if he stayed healthy, but I think his absence and the Sox' awful September showed his value even more. He wasn't a streaky hitter before. 2008 was not an outlier because there isn't enough evidence to suggest what he can do at the major league level. 2008 was his first healthy season in the majors and he tore **** up. That is what he should be doing every season.

You are wrong about Beckham, also. I don't remember anyone comparing him to Longoria or Utley, but he absolutely can be a Derek Jeter. He probably will never hit 30 homers in a season, but he has great talent, is composed and is a leader. He started off horribly last year, caught fire to pull his numbers up near .300, and then struggled at the end of the season. If he played the full season in the majors he would have had more time to pull his numbers back up at the end. He came in this year and, shockingly, things were "tweaked," which caused him to struggle mightily and "try too hard." But Beckham absolutely is a top talent and should be a perennial all-star. And you are wrong about Floyd and Danks never being more than 2-3s, also. I guess you missed the two month period where Floyd was the best pitcher in baseball.

doublem23
08-28-2010, 01:43 AM
This is who he is, so no. He isn't a player who can be the best player on a team. He isn't an mvp calibur player year in and year out. He is a guy who is going to hit 240-260 with 30-35 homers and 90-100 rbi. Very valuable, shouldn't be one of your best players.

He was incredibly lucky to do what he did in 2008. However, it was the outlier, not the norm. I would expect this year to be about what we will get if he can stay healthy.

This thread is just like Beckham. People expected Gordon to be an MVP. After a good but hardly fantastic rookie year, we were comparing him to 2 players he will never be: Utley and Longoria. Doesn't mean he isn't a fine player, but I think sometimes we set our expectations too high. Myself included. If we saw players for who they are (Beckham and Quentin solid contributors, borderline all stars, not mvp players at all...Floyd and Danks solid 2-3, never will be front line but very good etc.) we would be happier.

I'm not saying Carlos will ever come back to his 2008 numbers, but looking over his track record, to say that 2008 was outside of his normal abilities is crazy.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=quenti001car

When he's right, he's a monster. Maybe he'll never be right again, but those kinds of seasons are well within his talent.

Dan H
08-28-2010, 09:39 AM
It is not a matter of losing faith. I won't argue with his power numbers. But there are times when I think he can be better. I don't expect him to hit .300 but he should be more consistent. Watching him can be frustrating because i think he can be a better hitter.