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Madvora
08-25-2010, 08:08 AM
Yes I want the team to win, but I do not want this guy. I want to have players I like and respect on my team and this is probably the guy I like the least in the whole game.
Some people may say that as long as he helps us win, then I'm fine with that, but by that logic you can fill your entire team full of steroid bloated cheaters and win the World Series. I wouldn't want to root for a team like that.

Carolina Kenny
08-25-2010, 08:10 AM
Yes, we only have $$ to lose and a potential big bat to gain.

We are 3 1/2 games out and still have a chance. Manny could put us over the top. We can launch him after the season is over.

nccwsfan
08-25-2010, 08:15 AM
Yes I would like to have him on this team- he would be a significant upgrade at the DH position at a relatively low cost. He'd only be here for 60 days (through November :)) so his clubhouse presence would be minimal, and there's the possibility that getting back in a pennant race will have him motivated to go all out.

I hope they get him.

Jollyroger2
08-25-2010, 08:21 AM
I'd take him. If he hits, he'd be a big upgrade at DH. The question is, would he hit? He hasn't played much at all this year. But the risk is low cost, so why not?

aryzner
08-25-2010, 08:25 AM
His bat could make the difference. Yes.

ghostface36
08-25-2010, 08:36 AM
yes no question have him DH 90% of the games left and i think it would help us tremendously

ghostface36
08-25-2010, 08:39 AM
Yes I want the team to win, but I do not want this guy. I want to have players I like and respect on my team and this is probably the guy I like the least in the whole game.
Some people may say that as long as he helps us win, then I'm fine with that, but by that logic you can fill your entire team full of steroid bloated cheaters and win the World Series. I wouldn't want to root for a team like that.
thats a pretty way weak to look at the situation
you rather not have a .900 OPS bat b/c you're emotional about him?

Rdy2PlayBall
08-25-2010, 08:41 AM
Some people may say that as long as he helps us win, then I'm fine with that, but by that logic you can fill your entire team full of steroid bloated cheaters and win the World Series. I wouldn't want to root for a team like that.I forgot the league supplied him with steroids so he could still juice. That's kind of them.

ghostface36
08-25-2010, 08:44 AM
also if you're like every sox fan and wanted thome to come back i dont see how one could not want manny

rdwj
08-25-2010, 08:54 AM
He's a game changer when he's at the plate - YES, YES, YES!

RedHeadPaleHoser
08-25-2010, 08:58 AM
If these team does nothing, there's a good chance they can't catch the Twins. If Manny and his bat helps them close the gap while the bullpen goes through their hiccup, then every bit helps.

soxfanatlanta
08-25-2010, 09:08 AM
An aging juicer who is bat-**** crazy.

Oh, he cannot pitch!

Nope

LITTLE NELL
08-25-2010, 09:10 AM
Pass, never cared for him or his act.

dwitt76
08-25-2010, 09:17 AM
3. Rios
4. Konerko
5. Manny
6. CQ

Yea, that looks like an AL middle of the line-up. Yes please!

ghostface36
08-25-2010, 09:39 AM
how can you guys complain so much about kotsay as our DH and justify not wanting manny
you pop him at 3rd n put rios at fifth and the offense will improve greatly

g0g0
08-25-2010, 09:43 AM
Speaking of Sammy, now the Sox can have their very own! They'll be able to experience weird injuries, fines, poor defense and prima donna antics up close along with some HRs!

CLR01
08-25-2010, 09:49 AM
also if you're like every sox fan and wanted thome to come back i dont see how one could not want manny


Right because they are completely they same type of person.

CLR01
08-25-2010, 09:49 AM
speaking of sammy, now the sox can have their very own! They'll be able to experience weird injuries, fines, poor defense and prima donna antics up close along with some hrs!


dingerz!!!!

hawkjt
08-25-2010, 09:51 AM
If he is healthy,and can still hit, then bring him in. Presumably he is not on the juice anymore,just like Andy Pettite,Tejada,A-Rod, and all the others.
The Yanks are not forfeiting games that ARod and Pettite play in right?
The Yanks have a 150 million dollar edge in payroll already,and the Sox are also going to give them the former steroid stars edge also?

Now, that said, he was 0-4 last nite...has he got anything left?
Watch him carefully this next few games,and make the call.

cws05champ
08-25-2010, 09:51 AM
The only regular on the White Sox with a better OPS than Manny is Konerko. If you don't want Manny for one month when we are 3 1/2 out then I question whether you even want the Sox to win.

ghostface36
08-25-2010, 10:02 AM
Right because they are completely they same type of person.
what does that have to do with baseball?

CLR01
08-25-2010, 10:06 AM
what does that have to do with baseball?


Quitting on your team and throwing fits because you are upset about whatever has a lot to do with baseball.

ghostface36
08-25-2010, 10:32 AM
Quitting on your team and throwing fits because you are upset about whatever has a lot to do with baseball.
you think manny would try and pull that **** on ozzie? and you think he'd quit on a team he just started playing for, for no reason? it seems like your more concerned with rumor and cliches then the white sox doing better

LoveYourSuit
08-25-2010, 10:40 AM
Quitting on your team and throwing fits because you are upset about whatever has a lot to do with baseball.


I can live with this for a month.

It's not like we are looking to lock him up for 5 years.

Just get him here to help us make that push. I think our offense will improve by default with him out there, taking off some of the stress on the pitching staff.

Hitmen77
08-25-2010, 11:18 AM
Like KW said yesterday, players can deal with his personality for 30 days. The Sox desperately need a boost. Manny (if can still hit and remain healthy) might be our last chance to salvage this season that has been sliding into mediocrity the entire 2nd half.

For those who think our bullpen is the real problem, if our anemic offense didn't let low scoring games drag into extra innings, our bullpen wouldn't be so taxed and we'd be closer to the division lead. In the end, it all really comes back to the epic failure of the "all we need for DH is Kotsay/Jones" idea. When players like Quentin and Rios slump, suddenly there's nobody left to carry the team and the Sox plunge into a downward spiral. One missing bat has made a big difference for us this year.

My biggest concern about Manny is that the Sox would owe him $4.4 million (http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/2634358,CST-SPT-sox25.article) (including $3.3 mil in deferred money) if they claimed him. $4.4 mil for Manny, $1.3 mil for Jackson this year plus $8.3 mil for him next year. Hey, if JR and KW say that these expenditures will make no difference in their pursuit of building a competitive team in 2011, then that's fine with me. But you do have to wonder if all this extra money spent essentially for a long shot at the playoffs this year will come at the expense of even more holes in our lineup next year.

soxinem1
08-25-2010, 11:25 AM
We needed LH power all year and still do......

However Manny is a guy who, when healthy and motivated, is one of the few hitters that consistently hits good pitching, be they LH or RH.

Therefore, I say 'THUMBS UP!!!!'

Manny batting cleanup would make a world of difference.

Noneck
08-25-2010, 11:26 AM
If acquiring him does not impact future acquisitions or signings, yes, if it will impact the above, no.

VeeckAsInWreck
08-25-2010, 11:27 AM
I can live with this for a month.

It's not like we are looking to lock him up for 5 years.

Just get him here to help us make that push. I think our offense will improve by default with him out there, taking off some of the stress on the pitching staff.

Exactly! On top of that, if he helps us get to the playoffs, then watch out. Manny is money in the postseason. I say go for it! :thumbsup:

dickallen15
08-25-2010, 11:28 AM
I just think people are way overestimating Manny's effectiveness at this stage. He's not the player he was when the Dodgers acquired him. He's been on the DL 3 times this year with leg injuries, he's now 38 and probably off the juice. He doesn't even have a major league hit since June 29th or a homer since June 19th.

If they bring him in for $4 million for a month, I think the White Sox need to stop talking about budgets and no money from that point forward.

Dibbs
08-25-2010, 11:29 AM
Manny or Kotsay/Teahen, Manny or Kotsay/Teahen, Manny or Kotsay/Teahen?...hmmmm....tough choice, unless you would actually like to see the Sox win. I think I'm going with Manny. Should be 100% on the votes.

SOXPHILE
08-25-2010, 11:30 AM
No. Cheater, bad guy, clubhouse cancer. If the Sox sign him, they no longer have the moral high road, and neither do we. We rip him, and people like Sosa, Bonds, and the fans that blindly cheer them and ignore the 800 pound gorilla in the room, the PED issue. I'm sorry, but if signing him is what it takes to "put them over the top", then count me out.

It reminds me how I felt when they signed Conseco, Joey Bell, and when the Bulls traded for John Starks.

Rdy2PlayBall
08-25-2010, 11:46 AM
You guys are acting like the guy is still on roids. If he comes here and plays well, then he's obviously good at baseball, the clean way. Were not making him our franchise player, we're looking for a boost because the Sox are only 3.5 games out. I think it's ridiculous that people here are worried about looking like the Cubs and Sammy Sosa... this is COMPLETELY different.

g0g0
08-25-2010, 11:50 AM
You guys are acting like the guy is still on roids. If he comes here and plays well, then he's obviously good at baseball, the clean way. Were not making him our franchise player, we're looking for a boost because the Sox are only 3.5 games out. I think it's ridiculous that people here are worried about looking like the Cubs and Sammy Sosa... this is COMPLETELY different.

How is it obvious he's good at baseball, the "clean" way??

Rdy2PlayBall
08-25-2010, 11:52 AM
How is it obvious he's good at baseball, the "clean" way??So you believe he is still taking steroids? There is no evidence he is, only that he DID, and his injuries only help prove that he isn't taking them anymore.

g0g0
08-25-2010, 11:56 AM
So you believe he is still taking steroids? There is no evidence he is, only that he DID, and his injuries only help prove that he isn't taking them anymore.

I don't know and I would say that no one can be sure either. It's just odd that you said it was obvious that because he would be on the Sox that he was playing good baseball, the clean way. FWIW though, I think once a doper always a doper. Just maybe a different kind of dope.

harwar
08-25-2010, 12:03 PM
You do whatever it takes to win .. teams throughout the history of baseball have had guys that were *******s,guys that played dirty,guys that cheated, and guys that would do anything to win .. some of those guys are in the hall .. if the man can still hit .. pick him up

CubsfansareDRUNK
08-25-2010, 12:04 PM
No. Cheater, bad guy, clubhouse cancer. If the Sox sign him, they no longer have the moral high road, and neither do we. We rip him, and people like Sosa, Bonds, and the fans that blindly cheer them and ignore the 800 pound gorilla in the room, the PED issue. I'm sorry, but if signing him is what it takes to "put them over the top", then count me out.

It reminds me how I felt when they signed Conseco, Joey Bell, and when the Bulls traded for John Starks.

This

Bob Roarman
08-25-2010, 12:04 PM
Pass, never cared for him or his act.

I think if he helps the team to the playoffs, we can all live with his act for a couple months.

Zisk77
08-25-2010, 12:12 PM
The only regular on the White Sox with a better OPS than Manny is Konerko. If you don't want Manny for one month when we are 3 1/2 out then I question whether you even want the Sox to win.

Why? I want the sox to win so bad it hurts. But I would't sell my soul to have it happen.

Do we need Manny...Probably
Is he a huge upgrade at DH for us...Certainly
Could he be the difference maker for the division and in the playoffs...possibly
Is it a smart business decision...yes
Is he a known cheater...yes
is he a jagbag...colossal
Would winning a world series feel tainted with him...for me yes.

I don't know how someone can say its wrong or stupid to feel that way. Just as I can understand how others could look at it a more practically. Doesn't make either of us more or less a sox fan.

In short, It makes perfect sense to get manny in a practical sense.

In makes perfect sense to want to pass in an emotional sense...emotion is ok thats what makes us FANS.

Zisk77
08-25-2010, 12:21 PM
So you believe he is still taking steroids? There is no evidence he is, only that he DID, and his injuries only help prove that he isn't taking them anymore.

Actually the injuries would be more likely to suggest he is still taking steroids. Steroids often cause connective tissue (such as ligaments and tendons) to break down. See all the leg ailments Bonds, & McGwire suffered throughout their years.

Rdy2PlayBall
08-25-2010, 12:21 PM
Would winning a world series feel tainted with him...for me yes.
I would take a tainted World Series over missing the playoffs any day in my life. No one would care, unless you consider a couple of jealous Cub fan friends "somebodys"... and they have nothing to talk about because they drooled over Sammy for years. It won't be tainted, and no one will care. If having everyone clean was so important to you, then you shouldn't be proud of the 2005 World Series, because Pods was obviously juicing.

[/B]
Actually the injuries would be more likely to suggest he is still taking steroids. Steroids often cause connective tissue (such as ligaments and tendons) to break down. See all the leg ailments Bonds, & McGwire suffered throughout their years.Steroids are often used to keep a player healthy and more effective longer... It's not like he has a history of injuries, it's just this year.

Madvora
08-25-2010, 12:22 PM
Why? I want the sox to win so bad it hurts. But I would't sell my soul to have it happen.

Do we need Manny...Probably
Is he a huge upgrade at DH for us...Certainly
Could he be the difference maker for the division and in the playoffs...possibly
Is it a smart business decision...yes
Is he a known cheater...yes
is he a jagbag...colossal
Would winning a world series feel tainted with him...for me yes.

I don't know how someone can say its wrong or stupid to feel that way. Just as I can understand how others could look at it a more practically. Doesn't make either of us more or less a sox fan.

In short, It makes perfect sense to get manny in a practical sense.

In makes perfect sense to want to pass in an emotional sense...emotion is ok thats what makes us FANS.
I agree with this. I know he's a great player and can help, but I'm not a hypocrite. I've hated the guy's guts for years. He is the exact type of player that is everything wrong with the game. I can't just all of a sudden turn around and root for this pathetic bum.

RedHeadPaleHoser
08-25-2010, 12:31 PM
It won't be tainted, and no one will care. If having everyone clean was so important to you, then you shouldn't be proud of the 2005 World Series, because Pods was obviously juicing.

I assume you have hard, fast evidence on this statement, correct?

Manny served his suspension. He owned up and did his time in MLB prison, then AFAIC he owes no one anything. We're not talking about retiring his Sox uniform #, we're talking about a waivers claim to help us for the last 6 weeks of the season.

If this was an "A Rod off waiver" thread, we'd be having a different slant.

Noneck
08-25-2010, 12:35 PM
Picking up over 4m is a lot of dough. Would M. Ramirez sell tics? I am sure one of the reasons the Sox got Junior was because he was going to fill some seats. I wonder if this guy will fill many seats.

Coops4Aces
08-25-2010, 12:36 PM
I would take a tainted World Series over missing the playoffs any day in my life. No one would care, unless you consider a couple of jealous Cub fan friends "somebodys"... and they have nothing to talk about because they drooled over Sammy for years. It won't be tainted, and no one will care. If having everyone clean was so important to you, then you shouldn't be proud of the 2005 World Series, because Pods was obviously juicing.

Steroids are often used to keep a player healthy and more effective longer... It's not like he has a history of injuries, it's just this year.

Pods was juicing? Any evidence? I do know why Pods was awful in 2007. But it wasn't roids-related.

Rdy2PlayBall
08-25-2010, 12:38 PM
Pods was juicing? Any evidence? I do know why Pods was awful in 2007. But it wasn't roids-related.Oh boy...

:tealpolice:

dickallen15
08-25-2010, 12:38 PM
Picking up over 4m is a lot of dough. Would M. Ramirez sell tics? I am sure one of the reasons the Sox got Junior was because he was going to fill some seats. I wonder if this guy will fill many seats.
Not $4 million worth in a month.

What do people reasonably expect Ramirez to hit in Sept.?

Coops4Aces
08-25-2010, 12:39 PM
Oh boy...

:tealpolice:

There was nothing sarcastic about my post.

dickallen15
08-25-2010, 12:39 PM
Steroids are often used to keep a player healthy and more effective longer... It's not like he has a history of injuries, it's just this year.

He missed time last year with a wrist injury and took time off several times in Boston with mysterious ailments.

DirtySox
08-25-2010, 12:39 PM
Want.

Clubhouse cancer is easier to cure then Mark Kotsay.

Rdy2PlayBall
08-25-2010, 12:40 PM
Not $4 million worth in a month.

What do people reasonably expect Ramirez to hit in Sept.?If he helps get the offense started and win 4 more games than the Twins in a months time, I'd be worth 4m.

palehozenychicty
08-25-2010, 12:40 PM
If he is healthy, I'm down. This isn't Sunday School. I want a winning team.

Zisk77
08-25-2010, 12:40 PM
I would take a tainted World Series over missing the playoffs any day in my life. No one would care, unless you consider a couple of jealous Cub fan friends "somebodys"... and they have nothing to talk about because they drooled over Sammy for years. It won't be tainted, and no one will care. If having everyone clean was so important to you, then you shouldn't be proud of the 2005 World Series, because Pods was obviously juicing.

Steroids are often used to keep a player healthy and more effective longer... It's not like he has a history of injuries, it's just this year.

I guess I'm a no one, and I'd guess many other sox fans are too then.

Really its obvious Pods was juicing?

Also I realize not everyone is clean and their may have been some cheaters on the sox, but I KNOW Manny is a cheater and a jerk. And the 2 wrongs make a right argument is flawed.

Yes some steroids can help you heal and keep you healthy, cure poison ivy etc. Thats not what players are using. Its a fact anabolic steroids can cause connective tissue to degenerate.

Rdy2PlayBall
08-25-2010, 12:41 PM
He missed time last year with a wrist injury and took time off several times in Boston with mysterious ailments.He missed time last year for a number of reasons.
If he is healthy, I'm down. This isn't Sunday School. I want a winning team.Yea, stop whining about being pure. :thumbsup:

DirtySox
08-25-2010, 12:42 PM
Not $4 million worth in a month.

What do people reasonably expect Ramirez to hit in Sept.?

Meh.

Might as well spend the money on Manny. Not like the Sox invest it in the draft or international free agency.

Rockabilly
08-25-2010, 12:42 PM
rather have Fuentes. We need some pitching ASAP

BringHomeDaBacon
08-25-2010, 12:45 PM
Some of the comments in this thread are foolish. Manny's been a hitting machine ever since he entered the league. He hasn't hit lower than .290 since his rookie year. His numbers have never experienced a drastic spike that would suggest PED use. His teams have reached the postseason 11 TIMES! Some clubhouse cancer. His performance in the postseason has been nothing short of spectacular to the tune of 29 HR and a .285/.394/.544 line in 111 games.

I'm embarrassed that the results aren't 100% in favor.

Domeshot17
08-25-2010, 12:46 PM
Oh hell yes. Say what you want about clubhouse cancer this or jerk that...the guy has been on winning teams everywhere he has gone. He has 2 titles. If we can forgive Ozzie for everything stupid he does over 1 title, Manny gets a free pass over 2.

wassagstdu
08-25-2010, 12:46 PM
No thanks. I don't do fantasy baseball. If MR led the Sox to a WS championship it would devalue the championship because we would all know that the Sox were not good enough to do it without renting a player who has nothing to do with the team. What if we could bench the current team or put them all on the DL and bring in the Twins. They put on Sox uniforms the rest of the way and win it all. Are we happy?

kittle42
08-25-2010, 12:47 PM
I can live with this for a month.

It's not like we are looking to lock him up for 5 years.

Just get him here to help us make that push. I think our offense will improve by default with him out there, taking off some of the stress on the pitching staff.

Agreed. We've dealt with plenty of douches and former roiders as Sox fans already. I'll take one more for 1-2 months.

GoGoCrede
08-25-2010, 12:49 PM
Only if he decides to play, not dog it or fake an injury because he's unhappy.

kittle42
08-25-2010, 12:49 PM
No thanks. I don't do fantasy baseball. If MR led the Sox to a WS championship it would devalue the championship because we would all know that the Sox were not good enough to do it without renting a player who has nothing to do with the team. What if we could bench the current team or put them all on the DL and bring in the Twins. They put on Sox uniforms the rest of the way and win it all. Are we happy?

If those were all legitimate baseball moves, yes.

I mean, are you arguing that anyone who is brought in for a deadline trade devalues a team winning a championship? At what point in the season are rosters frozen in your head where adding/subtracting to them "devalues" any eventual championship?

This is one of the silliest things I have ever read on WSI, and that is saying a lot.

kittle42
08-25-2010, 12:51 PM
If Manny becomes a White Sox and we go to the playoffs, I'll happily take some of you guys' playoff tickets off your hands.

dickallen15
08-25-2010, 12:52 PM
in his last 131 games, games he has played since his suspension, Manny has 18 homers and 74 RBI and hit about .275.

Some people have way too high of an expectation.

pythons007
08-25-2010, 12:52 PM
2010 stats
.306 average 8 HR 39 RBI .396 OBP .497 SLG

What isn't to like what he's done this year????

Domeshot17
08-25-2010, 12:53 PM
No thanks. I don't do fantasy baseball. If MR led the Sox to a WS championship it would devalue the championship because we would all know that the Sox were not good enough to do it without renting a player who has nothing to do with the team. What if we could bench the current team or put them all on the DL and bring in the Twins. They put on Sox uniforms the rest of the way and win it all. Are we happy?

This may be the worst line of thinking ever. Do you devalue the 2005 Title because we "rented" Geoff Blum who, in turn, hit a game winning home run in the world series?

I sure don't!

Coops4Aces
08-25-2010, 12:54 PM
No thanks. I don't do fantasy baseball. If MR led the Sox to a WS championship it would devalue the championship because we would all know that the Sox were not good enough to do it without renting a player who has nothing to do with the team. What if we could bench the current team or put them all on the DL and bring in the Twins. They put on Sox uniforms the rest of the way and win it all. Are we happy?

Devalues the title? *** does that mean?

GoGoCrede
08-25-2010, 12:54 PM
Oh lord, if we get him, are people going to wear those Manny wigs like they do in LA?

dickallen15
08-25-2010, 12:56 PM
2010 stats
.306 average 8 HR 39 RBI .396 OBP .497 SLG

What isn't to like what he's done this year????

Those aren't exactly season changing numbers. He'll play a week for the Sox, come up lame and that will be that.

FielderJones
08-25-2010, 01:07 PM
For those who think our bullpen is the real problem, if our anemic offense didn't let low scoring games drag into extra innings, our bullpen wouldn't be so taxed and we'd be closer to the division lead.

Let's take a look (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHW/2010-schedule-scores.shtml) at the August of our Discontent.

111 runs scored in 22 games gives an average of 5.0 runs per game, better than the 4.7 runs per game over the whole season. In August, the Sox have lost games in which they have scored 5, 6, 6, 6, and 8 runs. And you think the bullpen isn't the real problem? :nuts:

Coops4Aces
08-25-2010, 01:10 PM
Let's take a look (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHW/2010-schedule-scores.shtml) at the August of our Discontent.

111 runs scored in 22 games gives an average of 5.0 runs per game, better than the 4.7 runs per game over the whole season. In August, the Sox have lost games in which they have scored 5, 6, 6, 6, and 8 runs. And you think the bullpen isn't the real problem? :nuts:

Don't let recent trends fool you. IMO The biggest weakness all season has been a bat.

LoveYourSuit
08-25-2010, 01:20 PM
in his last 131 games, games he has played since his suspension, Manny has 18 homers and 74 RBI and hit about .275.

Some people have way too high of an expectation.



And your arguement is what?

Those stats are pretty damn good and he can get on base at about .380.

Don't you think getting him of the field and having him only DH would help him health wise?

Look at those stats and compare them to Kotsay + Jones.

Enough said.

cws05champ
08-25-2010, 01:22 PM
Why? I want the sox to win so bad it hurts. But I would't sell my soul to have it happen.

Do we need Manny...Probably
Is he a huge upgrade at DH for us...Certainly
Could he be the difference maker for the division and in the playoffs...possibly
Is it a smart business decision...yes
Is he a known cheater...yes
is he a jagbag...colossal
Would winning a world series feel tainted with him...for me yes.

I don't know how someone can say its wrong or stupid to feel that way. Just as I can understand how others could look at it a more practically. Doesn't make either of us more or less a sox fan.

In short, It makes perfect sense to get manny in a practical sense.

In makes perfect sense to want to pass in an emotional sense...emotion is ok thats what makes us FANS.
I don't think you have to sell your soul. You don't have to root for an individual player, just root for the White Sox. A tainted World series because we picked up a player that took steroids and is a jag? You sound like a Cub fan that would be bitter with the Sox. I for one would celebrate a WS title just the same with or without Manny.


No thanks. I don't do fantasy baseball. If MR led the Sox to a WS championship it would devalue the championship because we would all know that the Sox were not good enough to do it without renting a player who has nothing to do with the team. What if we could bench the current team or put them all on the DL and bring in the Twins. They put on Sox uniforms the rest of the way and win it all. Are we happy?
Replacing the whole roster vs picking up an impact bat off waivers is comparing apples to...some fruit no one has ever heard of. With your reasoning any player they brought in since opening day (say Edwin Jackson) that helps them win would taint a World Series? Seriously?

And those talking about 2005, how would you feel if you found out 5-6 guys on that team were juicing? Would it feel any less satisfying since our opponents could have been doing the same thing?
would taint

Nellie_Fox
08-25-2010, 01:38 PM
also if you're like every sox fan and wanted thome to come back i dont see how one could not want mannyCouldn't be more dissimilar individuals.

If he is healthy, I'm down. This isn't Sunday School. I want a winning team.

http://broncotalk.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/davisscary.jpg

Just win, baby!

nccwsfan
08-25-2010, 01:39 PM
Why? I want the sox to win so bad it hurts. But I would't sell my soul to have it happen.

Do we need Manny...Probably
Is he a huge upgrade at DH for us...Certainly
Could he be the difference maker for the division and in the playoffs...possibly
Is it a smart business decision...yes
Is he a known cheater...yes
is he a jagbag...colossal
Would winning a world series feel tainted with him...for me yes.

I don't know how someone can say its wrong or stupid to feel that way. Just as I can understand how others could look at it a more practically. Doesn't make either of us more or less a sox fan.

In short, It makes perfect sense to get manny in a practical sense.

In makes perfect sense to want to pass in an emotional sense...emotion is ok thats what makes us FANS.

You make good points, but the only way a "Manny wins WS with the White Sox" would be tainted if if he's currently taking PED's. Seems like a reach since he's already been caught once, but that's just my 2 cents.

kobo
08-25-2010, 01:50 PM
in his last 131 games, games he has played since his suspension, Manny has 18 homers and 74 RBI and hit about .275.

Some people have way too high of an expectation.
That's better production than what the Sox currently get out of the DH spot.

Coops4Aces
08-25-2010, 01:53 PM
The dude gets on base at a 400 clip, get him to Chicago

hi im skot
08-25-2010, 01:55 PM
I'll buy a Manny jersey the day he comes to Chicago.

Yes, please.

dickallen15
08-25-2010, 01:57 PM
That's better production than what the Sox currently get out of the DH spot.

Its one month and over $4 million. With his injuries, a bigger question is really does he give you more production the last month. Last September he hit .218, and that's with people, who now think he'll be on a salary drive, stating he would be doing the same thing. He's 38. Father time gets everyone. Manny isn't worth $4 million a month. He won't destroy the clubhouse, and if the Sox get him and don't win, the argument would be they wouldn't have won anyway, but no one really knows that answer.

I've always been for getting another bat. I just think Ramirez is a shell of what a lot of people think he still is.

Coops4Aces
08-25-2010, 01:58 PM
Its one month and over $4 million. With his injuries, a bigger question is really does he give you more production the last month. Last September he hit .218.
It's not our money, plus it is 1 million per year over the next 4.

Madvora
08-25-2010, 01:59 PM
His numbers have never experienced a drastic spike that would suggest PED use.
What about his failed drug test and suspension? Does that suggest anything?

dickallen15
08-25-2010, 02:00 PM
I'll buy a Manny jersey the day he comes to Chicago.

Yes, please.


You should wait until November. They will be available at clearance prices.

dickallen15
08-25-2010, 02:02 PM
It's not our money, plus it is 1 million per year over the next 4.

That's one million a year less they can spend on draft choices. A couple of good ones got away this year, and for all we know as much as he's been layed up this year, it could be for 2 weeks or less of ABs.

Coops4Aces
08-25-2010, 02:08 PM
That's one million a year less they can spend on draft choices. A couple of good ones got away this year, and for all we know as much as he's been layed up this year, it could be for 2 weeks or less of ABs.
I'd say it's 1 million less each year they can spend on Kotsay

soltrain21
08-25-2010, 02:14 PM
That's one million a year less they can spend on draft choices. A couple of good ones got away this year, and for all we know as much as he's been layed up this year, it could be for 2 weeks or less of ABs.

You actually think the Sox would put that money in the draft? Comical.

Rdy2PlayBall
08-25-2010, 02:17 PM
What about his failed drug test and suspension? Does that suggest anything?He wanted to have a child? :shrug:

RCWHITESOX
08-25-2010, 02:21 PM
He wanted to have a child? :shrug:

I would take him because he is by far better than anything we have at DH. Then regardless of how the season plays out I'd say odious and good luck to you next season.

ghostface36
08-25-2010, 02:27 PM
lol at you would feel if we won the ws w manny itd be tainted
if you voted no you dont want the sox to add a guy whod instantly be our 2nd best hitter--think about that

dickallen15
08-25-2010, 02:34 PM
The other thing about accepting and wishing for Manny, I know I can never really complain about cheaters the rest of my life. It would be hypocritical. I would have to say Sammy Sosa was a great player and deserves to be a HOF first ballot selection. Some fans have no problem selling out like that, and that's fine. I and a few others do.

dickallen15
08-25-2010, 02:38 PM
lol at you would feel if we won the ws w manny itd be tainted
if you voted no you dont want the sox to add a guy whod instantly be our 2nd best hitter--think about that


I wouldn't think a title would be tainted, but I wouldn't want him anyway. Maybe he would be the Sox second best hitter, maybe even their best, of course, maybe he wouldn't even outperform what the Sox have. I just don't like what Manny represents, and considering the White Sox always use budget constraints as an excuse not to try to stack their team to begin a season, in a year where attendance hasn't been surprisingly good, doesn't it strike you as odd there may be $4.5 million laying around just waiting to be spent?

hi im skot
08-25-2010, 02:38 PM
The other thing about accepting and wishing for Manny, I know I can never really complain about cheaters the rest of my life. It would be hypocritical. I would have to say Sammy Sosa was a great player and deserves to be a HOF first ballot selection. Some fans have no problem selling out like that, and that's fine. I and a few others do.

Sosa and Ramirez have little in common.

Rdy2PlayBall
08-25-2010, 02:39 PM
The other thing about accepting and wishing for Manny, I know I can never really complain about cheaters the rest of my life. It would be hypocritical. I would have to say Sammy Sosa was a great player and deserves to be a HOF first ballot selection. Some fans have no problem selling out like that, and that's fine. I and a few others do.You can complain all you want... the Sox would be borrowing one... and it would be after the stopped using them. If the Sox go nowhere with him, your good... if they win the World Series, you have all the bragging rights you want for the next year, and until the Cubs win a World Series.

It's the Sox decision, not yours. If you choose to like Manny, that's your opinion. If the Sox get Manny, you had absolutely no say, no influence, it's not your fault.

dickallen15
08-25-2010, 02:40 PM
Sosa and Ramirez have little in common.
Except they both cheated and were shelfish players, and both have tainted numbers. Maybe he did, but I doubt Manny just started with the steroids when he was busted.

dickallen15
08-25-2010, 02:40 PM
You can complain all you want... the Sox would be borrowing one... and it would be after the stopped using them. If the Sox go nowhere with him, your good... if they win the World Series, you have all the bragging rights you want for the next year, and until the Cubs win a World Series.

The the Sox decision, not yours. If you choose to like Manny, that's your opinion. If the Sox get Manny, you had absolutely no say, no influence, it's not your fault.

How do you know he has stopped taking them?

dickallen15
08-25-2010, 02:44 PM
You can complain all you want... the Sox would be borrowing one... and it would be after the stopped using them. If the Sox go nowhere with him, your good... if they win the World Series, you have all the bragging rights you want for the next year, and until the Cubs win a World Series.

It's the Sox decision, not yours. If you choose to like Manny, that's your opinion. If the Sox get Manny, you had absolutely no say, no influence, it's not your fault.


That's fine but I want the White Sox to win. I'd rather they do it with players who at least you can say maybe have cheated instead of players who have cheated. I'd imagine the cheaters are a lot like most criminals. Just because the got busted and may be out of jail doesn't mean they stop committing crimes. Some do, most don't.

TheOldRoman
08-25-2010, 02:46 PM
He wanted to have a child? :shrug:I don't know if you missed that day in health class when they talked about making babies, but it generally doesn't help for a man to take a female fertility drug which increases his estrogen.

dickallen15
08-25-2010, 02:48 PM
I don't know if you missed that day in health class when they talked about making babies, but it generally doesn't help for a man to take a female fertility drug which increases his estrogen.
Yeah but its Manny we are talking about, not exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer.

Coops4Aces
08-25-2010, 02:48 PM
I just want to throw out there, that there is no evidence Manny actually used steroids. He tested positive for hCG. Yes, men on steroids take that sometimes, but normal men also take the drug when they want to increase sperm count.

I'm just playing devil's advocate.

SpartanSoxFan
08-25-2010, 02:50 PM
It supposedly would be a low-risk, low-cost move for the Sox to make. Specifically, they would only be on the hook for the $50,000 waiver claim fee. I say why not.

BringHomeDaBacon
08-25-2010, 02:50 PM
The $4 million argument is weak because Manny could easily pay for himself by increasing ticket sales.

Secondly, if you don't like him that's up to - the rest of will be chanting Manny, Manny, Manny....

BringHomeDaBacon
08-25-2010, 02:53 PM
I don't know if you missed that day in health class when they talked about making babies, but it generally doesn't help for a man to take a female fertility drug which increases his estrogen.

I also missed the day where they explained how estrogen helps increase muscle mass and enhances performance in athletic activities.

Nellie_Fox
08-25-2010, 02:55 PM
I also missed the day where they explained how estrogen helps increase muscle mass and enhances performance in athletic activities.When you use steroids for an extended period of time, your body stops producing its own testosterone. The drug Manny tested positive for is used to try to stimulate the body to resume producing its own testosterone. It is often used between steroid cycles to try to keep the body "in balance." It is the drug Canseco got busted for trying to smuggle into the country; Canseco's body no longer produces testosterone properly due to his extensive and excessive steroid use.

shingo10
08-25-2010, 02:56 PM
So is he gonna get put on waivers or not?

I mean at this point what are the Dodgers waiting for?

I think the longer this goes, the less chance we have of getting him.

dickallen15
08-25-2010, 02:57 PM
The $4 million argument is weak because Manny could easily pay for himself by increasing ticket sales.

Secondly, if you don't like him that's up to - the rest of will be chanting Manny, Manny, Manny....

How many home dates and available tickets do the Sox have remaining this season? He's not going to generate $4 million in tickets sales for one month.

BringHomeDaBacon
08-25-2010, 02:57 PM
When you use steroids for an extended period of time, your body stops producing its own testosterone. The drug Manny tested positive for is used to try to stimulate the body to resume producing its own testosterone. It is often used between steroid cycles to try to keep the body "in balance." It is the drug Canseco got busted for trying to smuggle into the country; Canseco's body no longer produces testosterone properly due to his extensive and excessive steroid use.

Interesting - thx

TheOldRoman
08-25-2010, 02:58 PM
I just want to throw out there, that there is no evidence Manny actually used steroids. He tested positive for hCG. Yes, men on steroids take that sometimes, but normal men also take the drug when they want to increase sperm count.

I'm just playing devil's advocate.Of course, but Manny was also set to explain the suspension at a press conference, then cancelled it and never challenged the suspension or offered an explanation. If he could have shown a legitimate doctor wrote him that prescription to help his sperm count the suspension would have been lifted and his name cleared. I guess he decided that he had been roiding for too long and too many people knew about it. If he denied it something would have come out soon thereafter to embarrass him further. As it is now, he still has the shroud of "maybe he didn't really..."

dickallen15
08-25-2010, 02:58 PM
The $4 million argument is weak because Manny could easily pay for himself by increasing ticket sales.

Secondly, if you don't like him that's up to - the rest of will be chanting Manny, Manny, Manny....
Almost rymes with Sammy, Sammy, Sammy....

At least Cub fans finally realized they were conned.

dickallen15
08-25-2010, 03:00 PM
I just want to throw out there, that there is no evidence Manny actually used steroids. He tested positive for hCG. Yes, men on steroids take that sometimes, but normal men also take the drug when they want to increase sperm count.

I'm just playing devil's advocate.

I'd say a 50 game suspension that costs him about $8 million with no fight is pretty damning/

Rockabilly
08-25-2010, 03:04 PM
So is he gonna get put on waivers or not?

I mean at this point what are the Dodgers waiting for?

I think the longer this goes, the less chance we have of getting him.


I read on MLB Trade Rumors. That Manny has been put on waivers today

http://www.coveritlive.com/index2.php/option=com_altcaster/task=viewaltcast/altcast_code=2278e97f56/height=550/width=470

Sockinchisox
08-25-2010, 03:06 PM
http://twitter.com/jonmorosi/status/22111479763

Now we play the waiting game.

Rockabilly
08-25-2010, 03:07 PM
http://twitter.com/jonmorosi/status/22111479763

Now we play the waiting game.

I hope that Manny is here for the Yankees series

cws05champ
08-25-2010, 03:08 PM
Almost rymes with Sammy, Sammy, Sammy....

At least Cub fans finally realized they were conned.
You think Sox fans wouldn't be going into it with eyes wide open? We all know he did it and have no illusions of what he is or what he did. But if he helps the team win for a month...or hopefully longer, then it's worth the risk.

I am a Cowboys fan, and I was pissed when they signed Terrell Owens. I could never root for that guy....but I said if he helps the team win(we he didn't) then OK. I root for the team first and foremost, not just the players.

LongLiveFisk
08-25-2010, 03:16 PM
I am a Cowboys fan, and I was pissed when they signed Terrell Owens. I could never root for that guy....but I said if he helps the team win(we he didn't) then OK. I root for the team first and foremost, not just the players.

This is sort of how I feel about Manny. I don't really like the guy but he may help the Sox win the division for all I know, so I have to keep an open mind.

oeo
08-25-2010, 03:20 PM
I hope that Manny is here for the Yankees series

Claim can't be won until Friday, so he wouldn't be here to play until Saturday at the earliest.

Rdy2PlayBall
08-25-2010, 03:22 PM
I think it's ridiculous some people here feel that everyone will look at the Sox as having a history of cheaters and every win from now until the end of time will be tainted. If the Sox get a rep for allowing a steroid user, that lasts for all of 3 months, I don't care. I almost never hear about the Yankees World Series being tainted because of A-Rod... just tainted because they bought their World Series. The Manny using PEDs in the past is old new, no one cares, get over it.

shingo10
08-25-2010, 03:27 PM
http://twitter.com/jonmorosi/status/22111479763

Now we play the waiting game.

Alright, awesome. Let's get this done.

Madvora
08-25-2010, 03:28 PM
I think it's ridiculous some people here feel that everyone will look at the Sox as having a history of cheaters and every win from now until the end of time will be tainted. If the Sox get a rep for allowing a steroid user, that lasts for all of 3 months, I don't care. I almost never hear about the Yankees World Series being tainted because of A-Rod... just tainted because they bought their World Series. The Manny using PEDs in the past is old new, no one cares, get over it.
No one cares? There's 115 posts in this thread and steroid use has come up quite a few times.

Rdy2PlayBall
08-25-2010, 03:30 PM
The Cardinals are going to put a claim on him to block the Reds. Game over.

No one cares? There's 115 posts in this thread and steroid use has come up quite a few times.Yea, that they are worried people will care, it's tainted... boohoo

RCWHITESOX
08-25-2010, 03:33 PM
I think it's ridiculous some people here feel that everyone will look at the Sox as having a history of cheaters and every win from now until the end of time will be tainted. If the Sox get a rep for allowing a steroid user, that lasts for all of 3 months, I don't care. I almost never hear about the Yankees World Series being tainted because of A-Rod... just tainted because they bought their World Series. The Manny using PEDs in the past is old new, no one cares, get over it.

You could not be more right! Just look at the attendance for MLB it's old news and most people really don"t care. It just happens to be the times we live in today; if you can get away with it good for you. People today just do not want to take responsibility for their actions. So with that being said I say go get Manny for the rest of the year.

Coops4Aces
08-25-2010, 03:39 PM
The Cardinals are going to put a claim on him to block the Reds. Game over.

What are you talking about? No one is saying that.

Rdy2PlayBall
08-25-2010, 03:40 PM
What are you talking about? No one is saying that.When why would I bring it up? It's speculation my friend.

Coops4Aces
08-25-2010, 03:41 PM
When why would I bring it up? It's speculation my friend.

Your own speculation or are you going to share proof?

Rdy2PlayBall
08-25-2010, 03:44 PM
Your own speculation or are you going to share proof?Its from the live chat on ESPN, where someone answers questions and shares insider insight. I also heard that the Twins claimed Randy Flores.

oeo
08-25-2010, 03:49 PM
Its from the live chat on ESPN, where someone answers questions and shares insider insight. I also heard that the Twins claimed Randy Flores.

Who was it? And what exactly did they say? That they have a source in the Cardinals organization that says they're going to do it? Or they might do it? And would it have been so hard to precede your statement with 'On an ESPN live chat with so-and-so, they said...'?

dickallen15
08-25-2010, 03:50 PM
The Cardinals are going to put a claim on him to block the Reds. Game over.

Yea, that they are worried people will care, it's tainted... boohoo

If true, it wouldn't surprise me KW and the White Sox knew this but leaked the Manny interest for PR. Usually KW is very under the radar. This hasn't been.

Coops4Aces
08-25-2010, 03:50 PM
Its from the live chat on ESPN, where someone answers questions and shares insider insight. I also heard that the Twins claimed Randy Flores.

Again, do you have a link?

Rdy2PlayBall
08-25-2010, 03:51 PM
Who was it? And what exactly did they say? That they have a source in the Cardinals organization that says they're going to do it? Or they might do it? And would it have been so hard to precede your statement with 'On an ESPN live chat with so-and-so, they said...'?Like I said... It's speculation. It's something that could happen, and probably the only reason Manny wouldn't get past the NL. I don't need to bother getting the names because it doesn't go beyond that. It's a thought, and just a thought... but a reasonable one if the Cards feel the Reds might make a move, (or actually want his bat also, like the guy answering said). I was joking about the "game over" part, because the common believe around here and everywhere seems to be no one in the NL is going to bother with a injury prone DH...

http://www.coveritlive.com/index2.php/option=com_altcaster/task=viewaltcast/altcast_code=2278e97f56/height=550/width=470
have at it... It may be as uncreditable as it gets

oeo
08-25-2010, 03:54 PM
Like I said... It's speculation. It's something that could happen, and probably the only reason Manny wouldn't get past the NL. I don't need to bother getting the names because it doesn't go beyond that. It's a thought, and just a thought... but a reasonable one if the Cards feel the Reds might make a move.

The way you stated it was as if it was fact. If it was only speculation, then state it as such.

It's really not that difficult to link to a source, or are we supposed to believe that the news is coming from you?

Coops4Aces
08-25-2010, 03:55 PM
Wow. Stop with the silliness.
"
[Comment From cardscards: ]
Since Manny is the theme of the day. Should the Cardinals be in on him? at least to block the Reds and keep Felipe Lopez from batting 5th Wednesday August 25, 2010 2:12 cards
2:12
http://cdn.cloudfiles.mosso.com/c71692/templates/coveritlive/images/spacer.gifI wouldn't do it as a Reds block. I think if the Cards were keen on having a bat they would have kept Ludwick. "

Rdy2PlayBall
08-25-2010, 03:56 PM
The way you stated it was as if it was fact. If it was only speculation, then state it as such.
Almost 10 minutes before you posted.
When why would I bring it up? It's speculation my friend.

Coops4Aces
08-25-2010, 03:56 PM
That isn't even an ESPN thing, it's the guy who runs MLBTR. He has no inside info, he just collects what everyone else is saying.

Coops4Aces
08-25-2010, 03:57 PM
When why would I bring it up? It's speculation my friend.
If it was speculation, and not fact then don't say:

The Cardinals are going to put a claim on him to block the Reds. Game over.

hi im skot
08-25-2010, 03:59 PM
Its from the live chat on ESPN, where someone answers questions and shares insider insight. I also heard that the Twins claimed Randy Flores.

If it's on the internet it must be true.

Nellie_Fox
08-25-2010, 04:03 PM
If it's on the internet it must be true.But not on MLB radio; those guys can just spit out anything. This is why this stuff is in WTS. It's all rumors until there's an official report.

Coops4Aces
08-25-2010, 04:04 PM
If it's on the internet it must be true.
One dude who has no sources asked another dude who has no sources if the Cards should put a claim on Manny. The 2nd dude said that if the Cards thought they needed a bat, they would have kept Ludwick.

Rdy2PlayBall interrupted this as "Cards will put claim on Manny. White Sox are screwed."

Rdy2PlayBall
08-25-2010, 04:06 PM
I wasnt serious when I said game over, I said that already. I admitted the source may be as not creditable as it comes... And I admitted it was speculation. Stop beating a dead ****ing horse and do something else while you wait for the news. Geez

oeo
08-25-2010, 04:09 PM
Almost 10 minutes before you posted.

I quoted your post and started a reply, then went away for a moment. I was responding to your original post anyway. Whatever, it's done, just in the future, post a link originally and there's no problems.

hi im skot
08-25-2010, 04:09 PM
One dude who has no sources asked another dude who has no sources if the Cards should put a claim on Manny. The 2nd dude said that if the Cards thought they needed a bat, they would have kept Ludwick.

Rdy2PlayBall interrupted this as "Cards will put claim on Manny. White Sox are screwed."

hi im skot says the White Sox are picking up Mariano Rivera AND 2004 Manny Ramirez.

Craig Grebeck
08-25-2010, 04:11 PM
Can we stop saying KW is "under the radar" now? He's one of, if not the most candid GM in the game, and his moves leak all the time.

Rdy2PlayBall
08-25-2010, 04:11 PM
One dude who has no sources asked another dude who has no sources if the Cards should put a claim on Manny. The 2nd dude said that if the Cards thought they needed a bat, they would have kept Ludwick.

Rdy2PlayBall interrupted this as "Cards will put claim on Manny. White Sox are screwed."

You saw the link where I posted " its official, the sox might get Manny". In no way did I believe the Sox were screwed and this was a done deal. I posted it to give another opinion and tried to make the post fitting with the doom and gloom atmosphere WSI always has. Get over yourself and get it go.

hi im skot
08-25-2010, 04:13 PM
You saw the link where I posted " its official, the sox might get Manny". In not way did I believe the Sox were screwed and this was a done deal. I posted it to give another opinion and tried to make the post fitting with the doom and gloom atmosphere WSI always has. Get over yourself and get it go.

Admit it: You were intentionally misleading with that "IT'S OFFICIAL" post, trying to get a rise out of everyone.

Rdy2PlayBall
08-25-2010, 04:15 PM
Admit it: You were intentionally misleading with that "IT'S OFFICIAL" post, trying to get a rise out of everyone.Yea, of course... but it said "The Sox might get Manny", it's not like I lied. Plus, most people say they won't believe rumors until it's on the White Sox website. Well, that was the first time it was published on there that the Sox were interested in making the move. The post got what, one reply? It's not like it was that missleading.

Rockabilly
08-25-2010, 04:15 PM
Pods was also placed on waivers today..

kittle42
08-25-2010, 04:17 PM
Pods was also placed on waivers today..

Now there's a guy I could see StL or Cincy claiming.

Rdy2PlayBall
08-25-2010, 04:17 PM
Pods was also placed on waivers today..Another addition to the roid abusers package the Sox are looking for. Goody!

kittle42
08-25-2010, 04:21 PM
Another addition to the roid abusers package the Sox are looking for. Goody!

There are several things wrong with this post.

Hasn't school started yet?

Rdy2PlayBall
08-25-2010, 04:22 PM
There are several things wrong with this post.

Hasn't school started yet?I don't know what difference it makes.

Rockabilly
08-25-2010, 04:24 PM
Heyman is reporting that Manny might pass through waivers unclaimed

GoGoCrede
08-25-2010, 04:25 PM
Another addition to the roid abusers package the Sox are looking for. Goody!

What?

Rdy2PlayBall
08-25-2010, 04:26 PM
What?Inside joke from a few pages back, I'll change it to teal for those who missed it. Sorry.

kittle42
08-25-2010, 04:29 PM
Heyman is reporting that Manny might pass through waivers unclaimed

I am reporting that he also might *not* pass through waivers unclaimed.

Hard reporting!

khan
08-25-2010, 04:31 PM
What's nauseating and disgusting to me is that we wouldn't have this discussion if they'd solved the DH problem in the OFFSEASON. Now, the SOX have to compromise themselves by considering a KNOWN PED cheat and a known ass-clown. That is, instead of signing the rarity of rarities, an actual decent human being/top slugger in Jim Thome for LESS MONEY and fewer headaches.


Claim Manny, or not, this team has been managed and generally managed like **** this season, IMO. Total clown shoes by both Ozzie and Kenny. Those two guys need to have fewer hissy fits and concentrate on getting better at their jobs.


[Cue probable white sox employee and apologist russ99 to defend the squandering of money and opportunity in NOT signing Thome/having to resort to claiming Manny to fix the Jonesay debacle.]

GoGoCrede
08-25-2010, 04:32 PM
What's nauseating and disgusting to me is that we wouldn't have this discussion if they'd solved the DH problem in the OFFSEASON. Now, the SOX have to compromise themselves by considering a KNOWN PED cheat and a known ass-clown. That is, instead of signing the rarity of rarities, an actual decent human being/top slugger in Jim Thome for LESS MONEY and fewer headaches.


Claim Manny, or not, this team has been managed and generally managed like **** this season, IMO. Total clown shoes by both Ozzie and Kenny. Those two guys need to have fewer hissy fits and concentrate on getting better at their jobs.


[Cue probable white sox employee and apologist russ99 to defend the squandering of money and opportunity in NOT signing Thome/having to resort to claiming Manny to fix the Jonesay debacle.]

I think KW tried. Damon, Dunn, now Manny. It's just that none of them panned out.

Cuck the Fubs
08-25-2010, 04:33 PM
Hell yes!

Zisk77
08-25-2010, 04:34 PM
I don't think you have to sell your soul. You don't have to root for an individual player, just root for the White Sox. A tainted World series because we picked up a player that took steroids and is a jag? You sound like a Cub fan that would be bitter with the Sox. I for one would celebrate a WS title just the same with or without Manny.



Replacing the whole roster vs picking up an impact bat off waivers is comparing apples to...some fruit no one has ever heard of. With your reasoning any player they brought in since opening day (say Edwin Jackson) that helps them win would taint a World Series? Seriously?

And those talking about 2005, how would you feel if you found out 5-6 guys on that team were juicing? Would it feel any less satisfying since our opponents could have been doing the same thing?
would taint

Don't insinuate I'm a cubs fan ever again :angry:. I'm glad it wouldn't hinder your enjoyment of winning the world series. I have no problem with you feeling that way or even understanding why you feel that way. But it would taint it for me because of who and what Manny is and I have every right to feel that way. And just because you can't understand or respect that doesn't make me wrong, a cubs, or stupid.

rowand33
08-25-2010, 04:34 PM
Why wouldn't we claim him?

khan
08-25-2010, 04:36 PM
I think KW tried. Damon, Dunn, now Manny. It's just that none of them panned out.

It was a poorly-conceived idea, be it KW's or OG's, to go into the season without a proper DH.

It was a poorly-conceived idea to allow OG to [over]use Kotsay to the tune of damn near 400AB for the season [if things continue as-is].

It was a poorly-conceived idea to allow a division rival to supplement their offense with a guy who wanted to be here. And who is [BY HIMSELF] responsible for 2 out of the 3.5 gb that the SOX are at right now.

It was a poorly-conceived idea to think that the steaming piles of **** in the minor league system would allow KW to pick up a bat in trade.


All in all, whoever came up with this plan **** his pants.

Rdy2PlayBall
08-25-2010, 04:36 PM
Why wouldn't we claim him?Kotsay is going to start taking PEDs

ilsox7
08-25-2010, 04:37 PM
I am reporting that he also might *not* pass through waivers unclaimed.

Hard reporting!

Several sources reporting as FACT that Manny will either be claimed or not be claimed. No other alternative. **Breaking News**

Nellie_Fox
08-25-2010, 04:38 PM
Why wouldn't we claim him?Did you read the thread, or just the title before posting? Because people have already said why they wouldn't want Manny. Do you want it all repeated?

Rdy2PlayBall
08-25-2010, 04:38 PM
It was a poorly-conceived idea to think that the steaming piles of **** in the minor league system would allow KW to pick up a bat in trade.
Hudson (Edwin) and Viciedo? It could have happened, but wasn't worth it for a few month rental.

khan
08-25-2010, 04:40 PM
Hudson (Edwin) and Viciedo? It could have happened, but wasn't worth it for a few month rental.

I agree.

But then, this is illustrative of a GM's work needing to be more or less done in the offseason. Wishing and hoping and praying that some other mouth breathing moron of a GM will give away a slugger at the trade deadline is NOT a plan.

hi im skot
08-25-2010, 04:40 PM
Yea, of course... but it said "The Sox might get Manny", it's not like I lied. Plus, most people say they won't believe rumors until it's on the White Sox website. Well, that was the first time it was published on there that the Sox were interested in making the move. The post got what, one reply? It's not like it was that missleading.

The "IT'S OFFICIAL" and "game over" posts were both posted simply to get a rise out of people.

Congratulations - it worked.

Coops4Aces
08-25-2010, 04:43 PM
Yea, of course... but it said "The Sox might get Manny", it's not like I lied. Plus, most people say they won't believe rumors until it's on the White Sox website. Well, that was the first time it was published on there that the Sox were interested in making the move. The post got what, one reply? It's not like it was that missleading.
:dtroll:

Rdy2PlayBall
08-25-2010, 04:43 PM
The "IT'S OFFICIAL" and "game over" posts were both posted simply to get a rise out of people.

Congratulations - it worked.Congratulations, your the only one who still cares.
Oh, and I guess your buddy Coop4Aces. I don't know why we're bringing this up again, let it go.

kittle42
08-25-2010, 04:44 PM
Congratulations, your the only one who still cares.

I care, and just for the trolling, it's "you're," as in "you are."

[/hijack]

Coops4Aces
08-25-2010, 04:45 PM
Congratulations, your the only one who still cares.
Oh, and I guess your buddy Coop4Aces. I don't know why we're bringing this up again, let it go.
Cause you're trolling and it's annoying. It's distracting us from the actual discussion.

Rdy2PlayBall
08-25-2010, 04:46 PM
I care, and just for the trolling, it's "you're," as in "you are."

[/hijack]Thank you, I always forget I'm being graded on an internet forum. I'll try to be good and re-read everything. :tongue:

Cause you're trolling and it's annoying. It's distracting us from the actual discussion.
It's trolling for bringing the conversation back. It was over a while ago.

hi im skot
08-25-2010, 04:48 PM
Congratulations, your the only one who still cares.
Oh, and I guess your buddy Coop4Aces. I don't know why we're bringing this up again, let it go.

Classic.

Rdy2PlayBall
08-25-2010, 04:49 PM
Classic.Indeed.
I should have become a member in '04

kittle42
08-25-2010, 04:49 PM
Thank you, I always forget I'm being graded on an internet forum. I'll try to be good and re-read everything. :tongue:

Consider it helping you for when it "counts."

hi im skot
08-25-2010, 04:54 PM
Indeed.
I should have become a member in '04

Not sure what join date has to do with anything.

SSrep
08-25-2010, 04:56 PM
Thank you, I always forget I'm being graded on an internet forum. I'll try to be good and re-read everything. :tongue:

I would assume you'd only have to read it once to understand it's wrong.

shingo10
08-25-2010, 05:01 PM
http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/2638070,manny-ramirez-chicago-white-sox-trade-25.article

Looking good for those who want him...

Rockabilly
08-25-2010, 05:03 PM
http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/2638070,manny-ramirez-chicago-white-sox-trade-25.article

Looking good for those who want him...


I hope the deal happens

Marqhead
08-25-2010, 05:03 PM
http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/2638070,manny-ramirez-chicago-white-sox-trade-25.article

Looking good for those who want him...

Love the picture with Sosa. :rolleyes:

PaleHoser
08-25-2010, 05:06 PM
If Manny Ramirez ends up on the Sox for $100K a game rental ($4M payout for 40 games), can one still make the argument that Jerry Reinsdorf won't pay to win?

I question whether he has the heart and the health to finish the season. I'd have a hard time paying him if I couldn't interview him face-to-face first, just to see if he had any fire left in his eyes.

y2j2785
08-25-2010, 05:07 PM
http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/2638070,manny-ramirez-chicago-white-sox-trade-25.article

Looking good for those who want him...

Doesn't it seem like this is happening a little too fast considering he was just placed on waivers today and he has to go through all the NL teams first?

Rdy2PlayBall
08-25-2010, 05:13 PM
Doesn't it seem like this is happening a little too fast considering he was just placed on waivers today and he has to go through all the NL teams first?Yea, the Rios deal seemed to drag a little longer...

If the Dodgers want to trade, I sure hope they don't want much, because the Sox wont be getting him for long.

CWSpalehoseCWS
08-25-2010, 05:15 PM
Doesn't it seem like this is happening a little too fast considering he was just placed on waivers today and he has to go through all the NL teams first?

That's what I was thinking. After reading the article, it suggests he already passed through the NL and the Sox won the claim. I hope it's true.

LoveYourSuit
08-25-2010, 05:19 PM
If Manny Ramirez ends up on the Sox for $100K a game rental ($4M payout for 40 games), can one still make the argument that Jerry Reinsdorf won't pay to win?

I question whether he has the heart and the health to finish the season. I'd have a hard time paying him if I couldn't interview him face-to-face first, just to see if he had any fire left in his eyes.


I thought this was deferred?

And seeing that the Sox are giving up prospects, might not cost us all that in salary.

oeo
08-25-2010, 05:25 PM
Doesn't it seem like this is happening a little too fast considering he was just placed on waivers today and he has to go through all the NL teams first?

Teams have until Friday to make a claim, so it is way too fast. Maybe they're discussing a deal if the Sox were to win the claim? Though I don't know if there are rules against that.

Rdy2PlayBall
08-25-2010, 05:26 PM
Teams have until Friday to make a claim, so it is way too fast. Maybe they're discussing a deal if the Sox were to win the claim? Though I don't know if there are rules against that.Does that mean the earliest any team can get him is Friday?

WhiteSox5187
08-25-2010, 05:27 PM
Someone has probably said this before, but Manny's an ass. But he can help us win. I want to win.

dickallen15
08-25-2010, 05:27 PM
Teams have until Friday to make a claim, so it is way too fast. Maybe they're discussing a deal if the Sox were to win the claim? Though I don't know if there are rules against that.

Unless the report was inaccurrate and he was placed on waivers sooner.

PaleHoser
08-25-2010, 05:31 PM
If it's me, it doesn't matter much whether the money's deferred or not. He would still cost $100K (or a bit less if prospects are involved) per game. He's going to cost more per game than many Sox fans will make in a year.

It would be a bit easier to swallow if he could be a fit for next year, because then it becomes a 40 game test drive. But to bring him back would go against the stated direction of using the DH slot to rest position players or keep bench players sharp.

If the Sox go back to using a dedicated DH, I'd rather see Konerko or Viciedo next year than Ramirez.

oeo
08-25-2010, 06:44 PM
Unless the report was inaccurrate and he was placed on waivers sooner.

I think it's more likely the Sun-Times is trying to "break the news." Even though this isn't much news to break. I could go start a blog and say the same thing.

JermaineDye05
08-25-2010, 06:45 PM
http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/2638070,manny-ramirez-chicago-white-sox-trade-25.article

Looking good for those who want him...

Sounds like she is blowing smoke up our asses. She states that sources said the Sox had claimed him yesterday. Manny wasn't put on waivers until today.

g0g0
08-25-2010, 06:48 PM
As much as I want the Sox to succeed, I'm still not convinced at this stage that they are one bit bat away from going deep into the playoffs. Definitely not winning it. Padres, Rays and NY have looked better all year. Save the money (and maybe prospects). Twins also look like they have the easier schedule down the stretch.

Rdy2PlayBall
08-25-2010, 06:58 PM
As much as I want the Sox to succeed, I'm still not convinced at this stage that they are one bit bat away from going deep into the playoffs. Definitely not winning it. Padres, Rays and NY have looked better all year. Save the money (and maybe prospects). Twins also look like they have the easier schedule down the stretch.When your 3.5 games out in late August, you can't just give. Why waist over 100 games of baseball to give up when you are one week of good baseball away from 1st? That would be foolish.

oeo
08-25-2010, 07:02 PM
As much as I want the Sox to succeed, I'm still not convinced at this stage that they are one bit bat away from going deep into the playoffs. Definitely not winning it. Padres, Rays and NY have looked better all year. Save the money (and maybe prospects). Twins also look like they have the easier schedule down the stretch.

If the Sox can get their bullpen back in shape, and add Manny, they can hang with any team in the American League, I'm confident of that. I didn't feel that way in 2008, I didn't feel that way last year even when they were still in the race in August. Adding Manny and getting the bullpen turned around makes this a pretty complete team.

All they need to do is get there. It won't matter if the bullpen doesn't get their act together, though.

Rdy2PlayBall
08-25-2010, 07:08 PM
If the Sox can get their bullpen back in shape, and add Manny, they can hang with any team in the American League, I'm confident of that. I didn't feel that way in 2008, I didn't feel that way last year even when they were still in the race in August. Adding Manny and getting the bullpen turned around makes this a pretty complete team.

All they need to do is get there. It won't matter if the bullpen doesn't get their act together, though.Plus, just making the playoffs is an accomplishment in itself. That's no small feat.

Coops4Aces
08-25-2010, 07:24 PM
http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/2638070,manny-ramirez-chicago-white-sox-trade-25.article

Looking good for those who want him...
That article sucks. There is no relevant info in it.

getonbckthr
08-25-2010, 07:26 PM
If it's me, it doesn't matter much whether the money's deferred or not. He would still cost $100K (or a bit less if prospects are involved) per game. He's going to cost more per game than many Sox fans will make in a year.

It would be a bit easier to swallow if he could be a fit for next year, because then it becomes a 40 game test drive. But to bring him back would go against the stated direction of using the DH slot to rest position players or keep bench players sharp.

If the Sox go back to using a dedicated DH, I'd rather see Konerko or Viciedo next year than Ramirez.
If i'm taking this wrongly I apologize, but are you saying because he would 100K per game you don't want him here? That's a stupid reason. His contract is what it is. If the team can afford it then i'm fine with what he makes per game. And by the way I guarentee adding Manny will increase attendance to the point where possibly it becomes a net gain for the franchise.

g0g0
08-25-2010, 08:30 PM
When your 3.5 games out in late August, you can't just give. Why waist over 100 games of baseball to give up when you are one week of good baseball away from 1st? That would be foolish.

If the Sox can get their bullpen back in shape, and add Manny, they can hang with any team in the American League, I'm confident of that. I didn't feel that way in 2008, I didn't feel that way last year even when they were still in the race in August. Adding Manny and getting the bullpen turned around makes this a pretty complete team.

All they need to do is get there. It won't matter if the bullpen doesn't get their act together, though.

Don't get me wrong - the Sox are a dangerous team. I just don't think Manny will change their fortunes enough to warrant picking up. This current team can play as we all saw in June/July.

Bob Roarman
08-25-2010, 10:29 PM
Most teams aren't as good as their hot streaks or as bad as their rough patches, the Sox are no exception. You can't expect them to play at that pace as they were in June/July. It's unrealistic. Manny can help them, if it's minimal, then that's what it is. It gives them a better chance.

Tragg
08-25-2010, 10:41 PM
For the rest of the year- fine. And salary only. None of the usual langiappe.

soxfanreggie
08-25-2010, 10:47 PM
If it's me, it doesn't matter much whether the money's deferred or not. He would still cost $100K (or a bit less if prospects are involved) per game. He's going to cost more per game than many Sox fans will make in a year.

It would be a bit easier to swallow if he could be a fit for next year, because then it becomes a 40 game test drive. But to bring him back would go against the stated direction of using the DH slot to rest position players or keep bench players sharp.

If the Sox go back to using a dedicated DH, I'd rather see Konerko or Viciedo next year than Ramirez.

Are you going to factor in the increased ticket sales and other revenue? Who knows, maybe he'd be profitable for us.

RadioheadRocks
08-25-2010, 10:49 PM
yes i want the team to win, but i do not want this guy. I want to have players i like and respect on my team and this is probably the guy i like the least in the whole game.
Some people may say that as long as he helps us win, then i'm fine with that, but by that logic you can fill your entire team full of steroid bloated cheaters and win the world series. I wouldn't want to root for a team like that.


+1

Rdy2PlayBall
08-25-2010, 10:54 PM
+1I didn't realize adding Manny, a user of PEDs in the past, and someone who probably doesn't take them anymore, makes the Sox full of steroid infested 600 pound men... It's almost selfish to not want Manny, just so you can have your version of an old fashioned, clean World Series...

Dibbs
08-25-2010, 11:46 PM
Bring on Manny. If we are lucky, maybe he will share some of his steroids with Kotsay and the gang.

Rdy2PlayBall
08-25-2010, 11:48 PM
Bring on Manny. If we are lucky, maybe he will share some of his steroids with Kotsay and the gang.Why do you think the team likes Kotsay so much? He was the man supplying the PEDs during the hot streak. You notice how they haven't been saying they don't need an addition anymore? Kotsay ran out of stock. It explains everything so well. :tongue:

ktssox
08-26-2010, 12:54 AM
I didn't realize adding Manny, a user of PEDs in the past, and someone who probably doesn't take them anymore, makes the Sox full of steroid infested 600 pound men... It's almost selfish to not want Manny, just so you can have your version of an old fashioned, clean World Series...

This is ridiculous. You know who's selfish? Manny. I'm proud to be a Sox fan for many reasons, but one of those is that we've never been tainted by steroids. You can't point to one major Sox player who has been linked to steroids. We also tend to have humble players. Our guys don't stand at the plate watching their home runs like they've just solved the world's problems with one swing of the bat. Manny does that every time.

Manny is a cheater, he's got a huge ego and on top of that, he's selfish and lazy to the point of making up injuries when he doesn't feel like playing. Thanks but no thanks.

I cannot believe that Kenny is giving into the pressure of "needing a power bat." Have people not been watching the same games I have? The BULLPEN has been the problem (and I don't think it will remain a problem), not the offense. Did anyone hear the post-game show tonight? In this abysmal month, the Sox have been on top of nearly every offensive category. The offense has been GREAT. Yes, there have been a few games where they haven't come through, but that is to be expected in a baseball season. You people seem to be holding onto an argument that you had at the beginning of the year about the DH, and you're just not able to see any other explanation for a terrible month lest you admit you were wrong. This team does not need that disgusting excuse for an athlete in the clubhouse.

Coops4Aces
08-26-2010, 01:01 AM
This is ridiculous. You know who's selfish? Manny. I'm proud to be a Sox fan for many reasons, but one of those is that we've never been tainted by steroids. You can't point to one major Sox player who has been linked to steroids. We also tend to have humble players. Our guys don't stand at the plate watching their home runs like they've just solved the world's problems with one swing of the bat. Manny does that every time.

Manny is a cheater, he's got a huge ego and on top of that, he's selfish and lazy to the point of making up injuries when he doesn't feel like playing. Thanks but no thanks.

I cannot believe that Kenny is giving into the pressure of "needing a power bat." Have people not been watching the same games I have? The BULLPEN has been the problem (and I don't think it will remain a problem), not the offense. Did anyone hear the post-game show tonight? In this abysmal month, the Sox have been on top of nearly every offensive category. The offense has been GREAT. Yes, there have been a few games where they haven't come through, but that is to be expected in a baseball season. You people seem to be holding onto an argument that you had at the beginning of the year about the DH, and you're just not able to see any other explanation for a terrible month lest you admit you were wrong. This team does not need that disgusting excuse for an athlete in the clubhouse.


Jim Parque used. Schoeneweis too. I'm sure there are many more. I always thought Rowand and Thome used, not that my random opinion means anything. I'm sure plenty of guys that wore Sox jerseys used PEDs.

Nellie_Fox
08-26-2010, 01:07 AM
Why do you think the team likes Kotsay so much? He was the man supplying the PEDs during the hot streak. You notice how they haven't been saying they don't need an addition anymore? Kotsay ran out of stock. It explains everything so well.
This is definitely trolling. You're just trying to stir up a negative reaction, the very definition of trolling.

Do it again, and you won't be on here to discuss what happens with Manny.

ktssox
08-26-2010, 01:10 AM
Jim Parque used. Schoeneweis too. I'm sure there are many more. I always thought Rowand and Thome used, not that my random opinion means anything. I'm sure plenty of guys that wore Sox jerseys used PEDs.

I'm not saying no one on the Sox ever did. Probably every team had at least some small issue. I'm saying we've had no major scandals. I definitely wouldn't call Schoeneweis a major player, and Parque admitted to using to recover from a 2003 injury - after he left the Sox. Again, not saying he's telling the absolute truth, but no major scandal here either. Plus, we learned about these things after the fact. I'd rather Kenny not target known cheaters and keep our fairly clean record intact.

Coops4Aces
08-26-2010, 01:24 AM
I'm not saying no one on the Sox ever did. Probably every team had at least some small issue. I'm saying we've had no major scandals. I definitely wouldn't call Schoeneweis a major player, and Parque admitted to using to recover from a 2003 injury - after he left the Sox. Again, not saying he's telling the absolute truth, but no major scandal here either. Plus, we learned about these things after the fact. I'd rather Kenny not target known cheaters and keep our fairly clean record intact.

I don't know about this major scandal stuff. So because ESPN wasn't going crazy over it, you're not upset that Tyler Flowers is our catcher of the future?

Sorry, but your argument makes no sense. Major vs minor? If you used, you used. And what is a clean record? Plenty of guys juiced on the Sox. It's only cheating to you if they get caught?

ktssox
08-26-2010, 01:36 AM
I don't know about this major scandal stuff. So because ESPN wasn't going crazy over it, you're not upset that Tyler Flowers is our catcher of the future?

Sorry, but your argument makes no sense. Major vs minor? If you used, you used. And what is a clean record? Plenty of guys juiced on the Sox. It's only cheating to you if they get caught?

Plenty of guys according to whom? Maybe they didn't get caught because they didn't do it. Remember when quite a few Sox players were planning to make sure the testing went further? That made me proud. Our power hitter of the era was one of the most outspoken players against steroids in the league.

My argument makes perfect sense to me. I don't want a cheater on the team, but that is only part of my argument. I don't want his ego, and I don't want his laziness. I don't want any part of him. I don't care if that means the Sox don't make it to the playoffs. I think of Manny in the same way I thought of Barry and Sammy (cheating, egotistical *******s). I don't know about you, but I know many Sox fans who said, "How do people root for these guys?!?" But now Manny is welcomed with open arms? How hypocritical. I, for one, don't want a championship if it is tainted by Manny, and I won't be rooting for him. I'll be selling my season tickets and playoff tickets to the highest bidder. If people want to root for him, fine, but I won't be.

Coops4Aces
08-26-2010, 02:01 AM
Plenty of guys according to whom? Maybe they didn't get caught because they didn't do it. Remember when quite a few Sox players were planning to make sure the testing went further? That made me proud. Our power hitter of the era was one of the most outspoken players against steroids in the league.

My argument makes perfect sense to me. I don't want a cheater on the team, but that is only part of my argument. I don't want his ego, and I don't want his laziness. I don't want any part of him. I don't care if that means the Sox don't make it to the playoffs. I think of Manny in the same way I thought of Barry and Sammy (cheating, egotistical *******s). I don't know about you, but I know many Sox fans who said, "How do people root for these guys?!?" But now Manny is welcomed with open arms? How hypocritical. I, for one, don't want a championship if it is tainted by Manny, and I won't be rooting for him. I'll be selling my season tickets and playoff tickets to the highest bidder. If people want to root for him, fine, but I won't be.

So you don't want Tyler Flowers on this team?

Foulke You
08-26-2010, 02:16 AM
This is ridiculous. You know who's selfish? Manny. I'm proud to be a Sox fan for many reasons, but one of those is that we've never been tainted by steroids. You can't point to one major Sox player who has been linked to steroids. We also tend to have humble players. Our guys don't stand at the plate watching their home runs like they've just solved the world's problems with one swing of the bat. Manny does that every time.

Manny is a cheater, he's got a huge ego and on top of that, he's selfish and lazy to the point of making up injuries when he doesn't feel like playing. Thanks but no thanks.

I cannot believe that Kenny is giving into the pressure of "needing a power bat." Have people not been watching the same games I have? The BULLPEN has been the problem (and I don't think it will remain a problem), not the offense. Did anyone hear the post-game show tonight? In this abysmal month, the Sox have been on top of nearly every offensive category. The offense has been GREAT. Yes, there have been a few games where they haven't come through, but that is to be expected in a baseball season. You people seem to be holding onto an argument that you had at the beginning of the year about the DH, and you're just not able to see any other explanation for a terrible month lest you admit you were wrong. This team does not need that disgusting excuse for an athlete in the clubhouse.
If you look at Manny purely as a hired mercenary to help the Sox get to October, it may help your outlook. I just want the Sox in the playoffs and Manny gives us the best chance. Also, if you think our offense has been "GREAT" this year, then you haven't been watching close enough. The bullpen has only been an issue in the last couple weeks. I'd also make the argument that the bullpen is in shambles as a direct result of all the stressful innings they pitched in close ballgames that our offense can't put away.

If this team sneaks into the postseason as constructed, we don't have the lineup strength that the Rangers, Yankees, or Rays have and we would need some masterful pitching to advance in the playoffs. I don't know about you, but I don't just want to beat the Twins, I want to get back to the World Series again. You really think adding a guy with a career OPS of .999 doesn't help our team's chances to reach that ultimate goal? It's only for one month and then he is gone. For the record, I'm not a fan of Manny the person, but I am a fan of what he can do to help the Sox.

ZombieRob
08-26-2010, 03:59 AM
I'd take Manny if he agreed to a 1 year extension.

aryzner
08-26-2010, 09:01 AM
I'd take Manny if he agreed to a 1 year extension.
I don't know if this has been mentioned, but according to this article (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/Los-Angeles-Dodgers-place-Manny-Ramirez-on-waivers-082510), he'll waive his NTC if he gets a 1-year extension.

FarmerAndy
08-26-2010, 10:20 AM
I'm proud to be a Sox fan for many reasons, but one of those is that we've never been tainted by steroids.

We also tend to have humble players.

The offense has been GREAT.

:lol:

Wow. I was actually going to respond, but I don't think I really need to.

Danielgosox38
08-26-2010, 10:23 AM
:lol:

Wow. I was actually going to respond, but I don't think I really need to.


Lol. He had to of been kidding. Right? Right?

hawkjt
08-26-2010, 10:42 AM
After reading that article by Rosenthel, I really doubt this happens with Manny and the Sox. I hate that this is even in the news,as when it falls thru, the inevitable deflation around the fanbase and club might result in a letdown of sorts.

We have to win this thing with the guys in the locker room right now.

Nellie_Fox
08-26-2010, 11:33 AM
I don't know if this has been mentioned, but according to this article (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/Los-Angeles-Dodgers-place-Manny-Ramirez-on-waivers-082510), he'll waive his NTC if he gets a 1-year extension.With Scott Boras negotiating it.

palehose4ever
08-26-2010, 11:47 AM
This team needs a consistent power bat and Manny is that. Having already added Edwin Jackson to replace Peavy, I don't think anyone could say KW didn't address needs if he added Manny. We still have one of the best bullpens in the league.

I just hope the organization doesn't start selling those ridiculous wigs the Dodgers were selling after he was traded there. Went to a game at Chavez Ravine and thought I was at the Rasta Fair.

Coops4Aces
08-26-2010, 11:49 AM
If everything is worked out except an extension, I'd call his bluff. Let him play LF for the Dodgers for the rest of the season and see how another injury effects his next contract.

ghostface36
08-26-2010, 02:00 PM
some of you guys are nuts with your hatred for manny im still laughing about winning a world series with him being tainted
bizzare

getonbckthr
08-26-2010, 02:31 PM
So Manny wants an extension? Here's what I would offer: 1 year 4.75 million extension, however if the Sox make the playoffs this season it gets bumped to 6 million. If he appears hesitant show him 2 examples, Dye out of baseball and Manny's buddy Jim Thome playing for 1.5.

34 Inch Stick
08-26-2010, 02:34 PM
So Manny wants an extension? Here's what I would offer: 1 year 4.75 million extension, however if the Sox make the playoffs this season it gets bumped to 6 million. If he appears hesitant show him 2 examples, Dye out of baseball and Manny's buddy Jim Thome playing for 1.5.

I'm with you on that. What would Manny's value be on the open market? I suspect it would be in the $6-8 million range for one year with an option. I wouldn't compare him to Dye or Thome, more like Vlad or Matsui.

Nellie_Fox
08-26-2010, 02:42 PM
Re: extension: I say again, his agent is Scott Boras.

Madvora
08-26-2010, 02:51 PM
Re: extension: I say again, his agent is Scott Boras.
Jones and Viciedo are represented by Boras. Even he couldn't get Andruw Jones more than $500,000 (which is actually way too much.)
Any help in preventing this pick up is fine with me though.

Nellie_Fox
08-26-2010, 03:19 PM
Jones and Viciedo are represented by Boras. Even he couldn't get Andruw Jones more than $500,000 (which is actually way too much.)
Any help in preventing this pick up is fine with me though.He already knew what the free-agent market was for Jones, who was widely regarded as washed up. I don't think he'll give anybody any kind of a fair deal on an extension for Manny before knowing what the total free-agent market would be for him. In other words, he'll tell Manny to opt out and see what the total market of thirty teams offer rather than settle for a reasonable offer on an extension. Boras always milks every last nickel. Of course, I could be wrong. I often am.

Nellie_Fox
08-26-2010, 03:23 PM
Interesting that a substantial plurality of fans on this totally non-scientific survey (http://content.usatoday.com/communities/gameon/post/2010/08/eye-opener-do-you-want-manny-ramirez-on-your-team/1) say they wouldn't want Manny and all his issues on their team, and if you add in those who say they wouldn't want him because he's got nothing left it goes up to 72%.

Lowell80
08-26-2010, 03:34 PM
You'll need someone to baby sit Manny--if you could just get bat---and leave his mouth behind it would be a good deal

russ99
08-26-2010, 03:50 PM
The White Sox had Canseco, so please spare me the "White Sox must be clean" nonsense. As I recall, didn't we also have a guy on the Mitchell Report?

Also, if you think none if the players that were on the Sox in the last 7 years on the team ever used currently banned uppers or other PEDs, you're pretty naive.

Nellie_Fox
08-26-2010, 03:56 PM
The White Sox had Canseco, so please spare me the "White Sox must be clean" nonsense. As I recall, didn't we also have a guy on the Mitchell Report?

Also, if you think none if the players that were on the Sox in the last 7 years on the team ever used currently banned uppers or other PEDs, you're pretty naive.
How many times does it have to be posted that PED is only a part of the very negative package that comes along with Manny?

kittle42
08-26-2010, 04:17 PM
How many times does it have to be posted that PED is only a part of the very negative package that comes along with Manny?

I don't think anyone disagrees that he brings lots of negatives, and that generally, fans wouldn't want him on the team. But for 5 weeks (and hopefully more) for a run at the playoffs? Sign me up.

JermaineDye05
08-26-2010, 04:40 PM
I've never been a huge Manny fan, but I'd rather have him on the Sox for five weeks (and hopefully more) than see the Twins celebrate yet another division title, only to be cast aside by one of the juggernauts from the East.

TheOldRoman
08-26-2010, 04:45 PM
I've never been a huge Manny fan, but I'd rather have him on the Sox for five weeks (and hopefully more) than see the Twins celebrate yet another division title, only to be cast aside by one of the juggernauts from the East.Yes. I have had enough watching the Sox piss down their legs against the Twins. At least the Sox fought and didn't give in any game last week. They would have swept if not for horrible pitching the first two nights. Still, I guess nobody told the Rangers how great a team these Twins are. As much as I want the Twins to lose every (playoff) game 15-0, afterwards I get upset at seeing that a team so summarily dismissed in the playoffs has such control over the Sox.

KenBerryGrab
08-26-2010, 06:21 PM
You'll need someone to baby sit Manny--if you could just get bat---and leave his mouth behind it would be a good deal

One more mouth to feed.... For a .930 OPS, I'd listen to him all day, for five weeks.

kittle42
08-26-2010, 06:21 PM
Yes. I have had enough watching the Sox piss down their legs

This might actually be worse than "pants pissing." Congrats, OldRoman!

ktssox
08-26-2010, 07:41 PM
So you don't want Tyler Flowers on this team?

No, I don't. I'd actually rather all the players who test positive be booted from the league, but I don't see that happening.

And to all those who say that the Sox have been touched by steroids, I'm sure that they have been. However, my point is that I don't want Kenny actively pursuing guys who are known cheaters. We have a relatively clean record when it comes to steroids, and I'd like to keep it that way.

Again, though, this is only part of the argument against having Manny on the team.

fox23
08-26-2010, 07:44 PM
No, I don't. I'd actually rather all the players who test positive be booted from the league, but I don't see that happening.

And to all those who say that the Sox have been touched by steroids, I'm sure that they have been. However, my point is that I don't want Kenny actively pursuing guys who are known cheaters. We have a relatively clean record when it comes to steroids, and I'd like to keep it that way.

Again, though, this is only part of the argument against having Manny on the team.

What does that even mean?

ktssox
08-26-2010, 07:53 PM
If you look at Manny purely as a hired mercenary to help the Sox get to October, it may help your outlook. I just want the Sox in the playoffs and Manny gives us the best chance. Also, if you think our offense has been "GREAT" this year, then you haven't been watching close enough. The bullpen has only been an issue in the last couple weeks. I'd also make the argument that the bullpen is in shambles as a direct result of all the stressful innings they pitched in close ballgames that our offense can't put away.

If this team sneaks into the postseason as constructed, we don't have the lineup strength that the Rangers, Yankees, or Rays have and we would need some masterful pitching to advance in the playoffs. I don't know about you, but I don't just want to beat the Twins, I want to get back to the World Series again. You really think adding a guy with a career OPS of .999 doesn't help our team's chances to reach that ultimate goal? It's only for one month and then he is gone. For the record, I'm not a fan of Manny the person, but I am a fan of what he can do to help the Sox.

I meant GREAT in the time that the bullpen has been ****. I guess I didn't make that clear. And if the offense keeps up this pace (not saying that's a given), or even a little slower pace, they definitely can keep up with those teams you metioned considering they're first in most offensive categories. We'd just need the pitching to do it's job. I'd rather take the chance without Manny.

I actually DO think Manny would help, I just don't think it's worth the price (not monetary, of course). I don't just want to win the world series, I want to win with integrity intact. Wasn't it nice that we won a world series where no one could say that it wasn't done the right way? I really just can't believe the love, when nearly every Sox fan I know made fun of Cubs fans and Giants fans for rooting for assclowns like Sammy and Barry.

CWSpalehoseCWS
08-26-2010, 11:33 PM
I meant GREAT in the time that the bullpen has been ****. I guess I didn't make that clear. And if the offense keeps up this pace (not saying that's a given), or even a little slower pace, they definitely can keep up with those teams you metioned considering they're first in most offensive categories. We'd just need the pitching to do it's job. I'd rather take the chance without Manny.

I actually DO think Manny would help, I just don't think it's worth the price (not monetary, of course). I don't just want to win the world series, I want to win with integrity intact. Wasn't it nice that we won a world series where no one could say that it wasn't done the right way? I really just can't believe the love, when nearly every Sox fan I know made fun of Cubs fans and Giants fans for rooting for assclowns like Sammy and Barry.

Ozuna Suspended for PEDs (http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/phillies_zone/Pablo_Ozuna_suspended_for_performance-enhancing_drugs.html)

I know he didn't play in the '05 World Series, but he helped get us there. More players are guilty of PED's than you think.

wassagstdu
08-27-2010, 07:39 AM
For a month: No, thanks.
For a year and a month: Hell No.

kittle42
08-27-2010, 11:54 AM
For a month: No, thanks.
For a year and a month: Hell No.

Well, I certainly hope you end up disappointed.

twinsuck1
08-27-2010, 12:04 PM
so now we may have to wait even longer???
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/MLB-latest-news-from-August-080110

Coops4Aces
08-27-2010, 12:10 PM
so now we may have to wait even longer???
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/MLB-latest-news-from-August-080110

But if a prearranged deal is good to go, he'll be in a Sox uniform for tomorrow's game.

oeo
08-27-2010, 12:50 PM
so now we may have to wait even longer???
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/MLB-latest-news-from-August-080110

This should have been expected, the Dodgers likely set it up this way so they would have the most amount of time possible to make a decision.

voodoochile
08-27-2010, 12:58 PM
I admit that I'm honestly torn on this. I'm outspoken in my desire not to have the Sox acquire steroid cheats, but the though of Manny's bat in the lineup makes me :drool: So I can't really answer because my head and heart are going in different directions.

Didn't read the whole thread, but if they do get Manny, what do you do with the lineup? Personally, I'd like to bump Rios to second and slide Manny into the three hole...

Pierre LF
Rios CF
Manny DH
Konerko 1B
TCQ RF
AJ C
TCM SS
Beckham 2B
Omar 3B

Then you can rotate Teahen in to 3B/1B/RF regularly to give guys a day off. In fact if you can trust his defense, you could bat him 8th and sit Omar, but that's probably a bad idea given how things have been with Omar playing regularly. It could at least be a platoon though and honestly the following offense makes me think "happy happy joy joy" thoughts...

Pierre LF
Rios CF
Manny DH
Konerko 1B
TCQ RF
AJ C
TCM SS
Teahen 3B
Beckham 2B

Teahen and AJ could switch as one of them gets hotter.

Nellie_Fox
08-27-2010, 12:58 PM
But if a prearranged deal is good to go, he'll be in a Sox uniform for tomorrow's game.If he doesn't decide to do a "Manny being Manny" and take the maximum allowable time to report.

Rockabilly
08-27-2010, 12:59 PM
Yanks will not be putting in a claim for Manny. According to Heyman

Nellie_Fox
08-27-2010, 01:01 PM
Yanks will not be putting in a claim for Manny. According to HeymanIf it's true that the Sox have put in a claim, it doesn't matter what the Yankees do. The Sox are below the Yankees in the AL standings, and would have priority.

dickallen15
08-27-2010, 01:01 PM
Yanks will not be putting in a claim for Manny. According to Heyman
I'm thinking no one will and LA will keep Manny at least through the weekend. They are 5 out of the playoffs. Sure there are a lot of teams ahead of them, but they have some head to heads coming up. If Manny is the fate changer many here believe him to be, the Dodgers keeping him is a no brainer.

The only way I see a team, probably the Sox claiming him is if they have something worked out and if the Dodgers still need the weekend, it would be OK with the Sox.

UofCSoxFan
08-27-2010, 01:07 PM
I'm thinking no one will and LA will keep Manny at least through the weekend. They are 5 out of the playoffs. Sure there are a lot of teams ahead of them, but they have some head to heads coming up. If Manny is the fate changer many here believe him to be, the Dodgers keeping him is a no brainer.

The only way I see a team, probably the Sox claiming him is if they have something worked out and if the Dodgers still need the weekend, it would be OK with the Sox.

In a vacuum yes, but the Dodgers owner is going through a bad divorce so the ability to save a few million has its appeal and could go a long way towards resigning Lilly. The Dodgers also have 4 starting OFs on their team. If Manny leaves they play Pods everyday which allows them to have a traditional leadoff hitter. Otherewise they are left with the choide of have Theriot lead-off or benching Kemp or Eithier to get Manny in the line-up.

dickallen15
08-27-2010, 01:12 PM
In a vacuum yes, but the Dodgers owner is going through a bad divorce so the ability to save a few million has its appeal and could go a long way towards resigning Lilly. The Dodgers also have 4 starting OFs on their team. If Manny leaves they play Pods everyday which allows them to have a traditional leadoff hitter. Otherewise they are left with the choide of have Theriot lead-off or benching Kemp or Eithier to get Manny in the line-up.

The PR hit if Manny played as well as most of this board is expecting him to play if he's more or less given away will cost a lot more than the slight savings. Also, I don't see the White Sox picking up the entire $4.3 million.

Coops4Aces
08-27-2010, 01:16 PM
I honestly believe we have a deal in place with the Dodgers.