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View Full Version : Is Hawk turning into Ron Santo?


Viva Medias B's
08-23-2010, 10:11 PM
Yesterday's game almost pushed me over the edge. No, I am not talking about our bad performances as of late. I am talking about Ken Harrelson. For ten innings, it was "Joe West this" and "Joe West that." Joe west may be a crummy umpire. Joe West may even have an agenda against the White Sox. But Joe West is not the reason we lost that game yesterday. We lost that game and other games recently because we have been playing bad baseball.

But to listen to Hawk, you would think Joe West was responsible for everything that went wrong for us. And there was Frank Thomas sitting in the booth being Hawk's parrot. If Steve Stone was not on vacation, I don't think Hawk would have gone on his ten inning Joe West rant. With stuff like this, Hawk screaming "STRETCH!!! STRETCH!!!" on routine fly balls hit short of the warning track, "Don't stop now boys!" used at least five times per game, "DADGUMMIT!!!!" on anything that does not go our way, and so on and so forth.

Hawk has turned into Ron Santo. Like Santo, he is more of an emotional cheerleader and less of a broadcaster these days, and this is really diminishing the quality of the broadcast. Steve Stone must have a lot of perseverance in the booth. For years, he had to share the booth with Harry Caray as he diminished over the last years of his broadcasting career. Now, the same thing is happening with Hawk. As tough as it has been watching our team play lately, Hawk's emotions and umpire conspiracy theories don't help.

I am beginning to wonder how much longer Hawk should be in the booth.

PeteWard
08-23-2010, 10:20 PM
I really don't know what is worse: Harrelson being Santo or Harrelson being Harrelson.

kittle42
08-23-2010, 10:23 PM
I have to agree. It's gone from bad to worse this year. I've always loved Hawk, but he may be hanging onto the job a bit long.

jdm2662
08-23-2010, 10:34 PM
He hasn't quite reached Santo's level. However, I got tired of him years ago. He's a bit more tollerable with Stone in the booth. As long as a professional like Stone is not around, what you saw yesterday with Hawk is par for the course. I will agree Joe West sucks, but the Sox had plenty of chances to win yesterday.

manders_01
08-23-2010, 10:40 PM
I may be a Hawk apologist but I didn't hear him say that Joe West caused us to lose the game (specifically or innuendo) nor do I think Joe West cost us any of those games. What I did hear him say more than once was that it was wrong, which I think is true. As I noted in the post game thread, I would love for him to continue to talk about it and for maybe the Sox or someone else to do something about it to what ever governing body would be responsible. It's hard to believe an umpire is calling a game fairly when there's significant visual evidence that seems to show otherwise.

kba
08-23-2010, 10:42 PM
Agreed. Hawk has always been colorful, but the past year or so, he's become downright eccentric. If you watch tapes of old telecasts or highlights of old games, you can tell that most of the odd stuff ("Stretch," "dagummit," "Hell, yes") has been added to his act in the past few years.

Brian26
08-23-2010, 10:46 PM
I'm the biggest Hawk supporter there is. He is White Sox baseball to me. With that said, the broadcast yesterday was the most embarrassing, revolting game I can ever remember viewing as a Sox fan. The Joe West stuff was somewhere between "figment of Hawk's imagination" and "desperate attempt to excuse ****ty baseball."

Whether or not West blew the call on the Betemit strike-three, Joe West sure as hell didn't hit the next ball out of the park or throw the meatball pitch.

Comparing replays on check-swing strikeouts to show that Beckham's bat went an inch farther than the Royals batter is beyond petty.

The whining about the rain delay on Friday night is absurd, especially considering that both teams played under the same conditions all weekend and the Royals actually brought their starter back to pitch yesterday. O'Sullivan even threw more pitches than Edwin on Friday night.

Harrelson went into the weekend with an agenda, and he certainly had prepared material for Sunday's broadcast, talking about how he tracked down the Royals groundskeeper to ask him what happened and recapping the conversation with West on Friday night. Whether or not Joe West has a grudge against the Sox may still be up for debate, but Hawk's behavior throughout the weekend was probably on par if not worse than anything West was guilty of. I'm sure if word gets back to West about Hawk propagating the situation on television all weekend, the Sox are going to pay for it even more dearly in a bigger situation down the road.

I still like Hawk, but what happened this weekend, and especially yesterday, should never happen again.

One other note- the Comcast producers should be ashamed of themselves for going along with the Hawk show and playing it up as much as they did, whether it was close-ups of West whenever Hawk was bemoaning his point, or showing the petty replays on debatable calls. The entire fiasco was embarrassing to watch, and that's not even considering the terrible baseball we had to witness.

Frater Perdurabo
08-23-2010, 10:46 PM
Hawk has been an excellent broadcaster who is starting to lose it.

Santo never had it.

Although Hawk is much more of a company man, he's more like Harry Caray, who became a caricature of himself in later years. Hawk is becoming a caricature of himself.

JB98
08-23-2010, 10:58 PM
Hawk is insufferable when the Sox are struggling. He was insufferable on Sunday afternoon.

Joe West is a poor umpire, but the whining on that broadcast was beyond excessive.

LoveYourSuit
08-23-2010, 10:59 PM
What's funny is that Joe West had nothing to do with the outcome of the series.

Garcia and Pena pitched their asses off and couldn't have done a better job.


Maybe we should play the game of baseball, and perhaps beat the mighty Royals. How about that Hawk?

Clown.

LoveYourSuit
08-23-2010, 11:00 PM
Hawk is insufferable when the Sox are struggling. He was insufferable on Sunday afternoon.

Joe West is a poor umpire, but the whining on that broadcast was beyond excessive.

I will even say Joe West had one of his better games behind the plate (compared to all the crap we have seen in the past).

KingXerxes
08-23-2010, 11:19 PM
I have always considered Ken Harrelson to be a joke, when he played, when he announced, when he was a general manager, when he announced etc.

He's had one constant theme for as long as I've known of him, and that theme is that he always tries to be the center of attention. From getting run out of Kansas City for being a clubhouse lawyer (Charlie Finley's words not mine), to his Nehru Jacket wearing days in Boston, to "Beat The Hawk" on Channel Five sports (remember that), to putting his picture on the schedule in the mid-1980's, to the odd cowboy outfits as a general manager, to all of his contrived Hawkisms for all these years in the booth.

Time marches on for all of us however, and I think Harrelson finds himself becoming further and further away from being relevant anymore - and he realizes that fact. The past year or two has been spent by him groping for something - anything - that will make him "cutting edge" again, and, unfortunately for all who watch the games, he seems to be settling on some sort of uber second guessing know it all. It's weird to watch, and somewhat sad. I've never liked the guy as an announcer, but I don't like to see anybody turn themselves into a parody (ala Harry Caray). Harrelson's dangerously close to that.

:hawk

"Mercy - what a hatchet job."

Noneck
08-23-2010, 11:20 PM
I'm the biggest Hawk supporter there is. He is White Sox baseball to me. With that said, the broadcast yesterday was the most embarrassing, revolting game I can ever remember viewing as a Sox fan. The Joe West stuff was somewhere between "figment of Hawk's imagination" and "desperate attempt to excuse ****ty baseball."

Whether or not West blew the call on the Betemit strike-three, Joe West sure as hell didn't hit the next ball out of the park or throw the meatball pitch.

Comparing replays on check-swing strikeouts to show that Beckham's bat went an inch farther than the Royals batter is beyond petty.

The whining about the rain delay on Friday night is absurd, especially considering that both teams played under the same conditions all weekend and the Royals actually brought their starter back to pitch yesterday. O'Sullivan even threw more pitches than Edwin on Friday night.

Harrelson went into the weekend with an agenda, and he certainly had prepared material for Sunday's broadcast, talking about how he tracked down the Royals groundskeeper to ask him what happened and recapping the conversation with West on Friday night. Whether or not Joe West has a grudge against the Sox may still be up for debate, but Hawk's behavior throughout the weekend was probably on par if not worse than anything West was guilty of. I'm sure if word gets back to West about Hawk propagating the situation on television all weekend, the Sox are going to pay for it even more dearly in a bigger situation down the road.

I still like Hawk, but what happened this weekend, and especially yesterday, should never happen again.

One other note- the Comcast producers should be ashamed of themselves for going along with the Hawk show and playing it up as much as they did, whether it was close-ups of West whenever Hawk was bemoaning his point, or showing the petty replays on debatable calls. The entire fiasco was embarrassing to watch, and that's not even considering the terrible baseball we had to witness.

Do you think Harrelson would have carried on as much if Stone was with him? He knew he had a puppet in Thomas but I wonder how this would have played out with Stone there.

Marqhead
08-23-2010, 11:27 PM
I too have always liked Hawk, but this year (in limited exposure for me) he has been far far worse than I can ever remember.

He's been annoying, and I've enjoyed the radio broadcasts more and more.

fram40
08-23-2010, 11:46 PM
I'm the biggest Hawk supporter there is. He is White Sox baseball to me. With that said, the broadcast yesterday was the most embarrassing, revolting game I can ever remember viewing as a Sox fan. The Joe West stuff was somewhere between "figment of Hawk's imagination" and "desperate attempt to excuse ****ty baseball."

Whether or not West blew the call on the Betemit strike-three, Joe West sure as hell didn't hit the next ball out of the park or throw the meatball pitch.

Comparing replays on check-swing strikeouts to show that Beckham's bat went an inch farther than the Royals batter is beyond petty.

The whining about the rain delay on Friday night is absurd, especially considering that both teams played under the same conditions all weekend and the Royals actually brought their starter back to pitch yesterday. O'Sullivan even threw more pitches than Edwin on Friday night.

Harrelson went into the weekend with an agenda, and he certainly had prepared material for Sunday's broadcast, talking about how he tracked down the Royals groundskeeper to ask him what happened and recapping the conversation with West on Friday night. Whether or not Joe West has a grudge against the Sox may still be up for debate, but Hawk's behavior throughout the weekend was probably on par if not worse than anything West was guilty of. I'm sure if word gets back to West about Hawk propagating the situation on television all weekend, the Sox are going to pay for it even more dearly in a bigger situation down the road.

I still like Hawk, but what happened this weekend, and especially yesterday, should never happen again.

One other note- the Comcast producers should be ashamed of themselves for going along with the Hawk show and playing it up as much as they did, whether it was close-ups of West whenever Hawk was bemoaning his point, or showing the petty replays on debatable calls. The entire fiasco was embarrassing to watch, and that's not even considering the terrible baseball we had to witness.

I have to agree with Brian - 100%. I love hawk most of the time - but Sunday's telecast was embarrassing. It was so bad that Hawk needs to be publicly reprimanded and apologize.

I also agree with Noneck - no way Hawk would have spewed such garbage all weekend had Stone been in the booth. Stone would have least tempered some of Hawk's bs.

Rdy2PlayBall
08-23-2010, 11:49 PM
http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/7571/8191.jpg

Noneck
08-23-2010, 11:54 PM
http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/7571/8191.jpg

I cant stand Harrelson for many reasons and that is one that doesnt bother me at all. The man does have sight problems and I totally over look that.

Rdy2PlayBall
08-23-2010, 11:56 PM
I cant stand Harrelson for many reasons and that is one that doesnt bother me at all. The man does have sight problems and I totally over look that.sorry...

PeteWard
08-24-2010, 12:01 AM
I have always considered Ken Harrelson to be a joke, when he played, when he announced, when he was a general manager, when he announced etc.

He's had one constant theme for as long as I've known of him, and that theme is that he always tries to be the center of attention. From getting run out of Kansas City for being a clubhouse lawyer (Charlie Finley's words not mine), to his Nehru Jacket wearing days in Boston, to "Beat The Hawk" on Channel Five sports (remember that), to putting his picture on the schedule in the mid-1980's, to the odd cowboy outfits as a general manager, to all of his contrived Hawkisms for all these years in the booth.

Time marches on for all of us however, and I think Harrelson finds himself becoming further and further away from being relevant anymore - and he realizes that fact. The past year or two has been spent by him groping for something - anything - that will make him "cutting edge" again, and, unfortunately for all who watch the games, he seems to be settling on some sort of uber second guessing know it all. It's weird to watch, and somewhat sad. I've never liked the guy as an announcer, but I don't like to see anybody turn themselves into a parody (ala Harry Caray). Harrelson's dangerously close to that.

:hawk

"Mercy - what a hatchet job."

I hated him from Day 1 when he was in the booth with the woeful Don Drysdale, who actually disliked the White Sox.
Harrelson was if anything more full of himself then but not as asinine as he is now.
Now he is an embarrassment to the organization and should be put out to pasture.

DSpivack
08-24-2010, 12:14 AM
Don't want we have a thread like this once every year?

That said, I like Hawk. He's a refreshing departure from the majority of "professional" sounding, dispassionate announcers who have good voices without seemingly any emotional attachment to the team. I hope his eventual replacement is someone like him, in terms of being more into the team and having trademark calls that he's famous for.

He does seem headed on a downward spiral, though.

Crooked Number
08-24-2010, 01:03 AM
As you can tell by my user name i am a huge fan. Much like Nancy he is Whitesox baseball (to me personally). I think when the ole hawkeroo finally steps down, or according to him, dies of a heart attack in the booth on the air, he will be missed.

In my opinion, the guy is an icon (Whether thats good or bad). He is endearing. A true original. He has his detractors, and he is OK with it. Now, like most Hawk fans, you take the good with the bad. No one is perfect. I wonder if Dodger fans think Scully is annoying sometimes. Everyone has nuances. I guess Hawks antics dont really bother me that much.

In total agreement that his "stretch" and "get on back there" calls are comical lately. When we struggle, he seems to try to will the ball for the Sox benefit. The best was when Swisher hit that grand slam against Detroit in '08. He reached three octaves with the "put it on the BOO---AAARRR---DDD". Boers and Bernstein played it over and over again. Hilarious. Perhaps you guys are just missing it, maybe by one thirty-eighths of an inch. Ha, i guess im a sucker but i really have always enjoyed his schtick.

hangwithem
08-24-2010, 01:18 AM
Hawk is a good announcer I guess. But he gets in the way of the action too much. Hawk sometimes becomes the story, and that is not fair to the athletes on the field or the viewers watching on television.

All I will say about Hawk's displeasure with Joe West strike zone Sunday is that those calls could have gone either way to say the least.

He was especially upset about Paulie taking strike three in the 8th inning on what appeared to be a borderline pitch in his mind.

That was a strike all the way. The pitch caught a healthy portion of the plate. Jason Kendall is just horrible at receiving pitches, which makes good pitches seem either borderline or complete balls.

Foulke You
08-24-2010, 01:30 AM
As you can tell by my user name i am a huge fan. Much like Nancy he is Whitesox baseball (to me personally). I think when the ole hawkeroo finally steps down, or according to him, dies of a heart attack in the booth on the air, he will be missed.

In my opinion, the guy is an icon (Whether thats good or bad). He is endearing. A true original. He has his detractors, and he is OK with it. Now, like most Hawk fans, you take the good with the bad. No one is perfect. I wonder if Dodger fans think Scully is annoying sometimes. Everyone has nuances. I guess Hawks antics dont really bother me that much.

In total agreement that his "stretch" and "get on back there" calls are comical lately. When we struggle, he seems to try to will the ball for the Sox benefit. The best was when Swisher hit that grand slam against Detroit in '08. He reached three octaves with the "put it on the BOO---AAARRR---DDD". Boers and Bernstein played it over and over again. Hilarious. Perhaps you guys are just missing it, maybe by one thirty-eighths of an inch. Ha, i guess im a sucker but i really have always enjoyed his schtick.
Pretty much sums up my feelings on the Hawk too. He isn't perfect and his best days are behind him now (I truly believe his peak was in the early 90s with Tom Paciorek) but I'm still glad he is in the booth. I've grown used to having him there every Summer and it will be sad to me when he is gone. If some Hawk detractors found him to be "out of control" during the KC series, you have to remember he had Frank Thomas with him in the booth this weekend. Normally, Steve Stone corrals the Hawk a bit and keeps him more focused but this time he had Big Hurt (whom I love) but he is just going along with what Hawk says because he is new at broadcasting and is also a big Sox fan.

Also, is it really necessary to have a thread bashing Hawk Harrelson every two weeks? This has to be the 7th or 8th one this season alone and I have a feeling the same group of posters keeps rehashing the same thread. Are we really breaking new ground here? You either like him or you don't. There doesn't seem to be much middle ground here and there never has been.

spongyfungy
08-24-2010, 01:38 AM
Santo never had it.


I disagree. I was a cub fan growing up and 10 years ago he wasn't bad. He would actually do some play by play and would not rely on a monitor to give his thoughts on a play. He sounded professional and the broadcast was fine.

Now, he's just unbearable. Only reads birthday greetings, gives his delayed reaction watching the monitors, responds with only a "yeah" when Pat speaks to him, grunts and says "Gosh!" on not just bad plays, but seemingly every single thing that happens. and "gee whiz! when something really bad happens"

The worst part is, is that cubs fans love this "passion" because he reacts "just like us" because I would hear sports central and the old dudes call.

I wonder if that's how old sox fans feel about Hawk. I do like his passion for the white sox but wouldn't that make it a bit hypocritical if I condone it for hawk and not santo?

MUsoxfan
08-24-2010, 01:57 AM
Hawk's been pissing me off lately when he's screaming "STRETCH!!!! STRETCH!!!!" on balls that are caught 10ft short of the warning track. I threw my hat at the TV twice during the last game when he was pulling that ****.


That being said, he may be a homer...but he's our homer.

hawkjt
08-24-2010, 01:57 AM
Has Hawk slipped a bit lately? yes. Has he gone to his new pet phrases way too much of late? Yes.

Was yesterday the worst game for him all year? yes.
But,as has been pointed out, without Stoney he had total free rein.
And lets face it, this was set up for a disaster from the time that West messed with the Sox rotation on friday. Hawk hates West like no ump in baseball to begin with, and then Friday nite...well, it was set up for a disaster if West was not totally fair on sunday...and he was not.
When he refused to ask for help on the checked swings for the Sox twice, while allowing it for the Royals...there was no doubt he was screwing the Sox on purpose.

So,yes, I suffered thru Sundays telecast like everyone,but it was a perfect storm of Hawk unplugged with West screwing us.

It will not happen again, at least til West does another Sox game and screws us again,but even then Stoney will keep it in check.

It is a long season, in a long career,and I am not going to cruxify the guy like B & B and Mac do everyday...they were hammering him,even as they admitted they did not watch the game...

AlexRios51
08-24-2010, 03:18 AM
http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/7571/8191.jpg
Do you mind if I use this on my facebook?

LITTLE NELL
08-24-2010, 07:42 AM
I watch a lot of Rays games and their announcers; Staats and especially Kevin Kennedy are on the umpires pretty good also, so its nothing new with whats going on. IMHO the umpires get worse every year, look at some of the horrible calls we have seen in MLB this year.
I could not see Sundays game but I for one think the Hawk is doing a fine job, I want my team's announcer to be a homer.

Bob Roarman
08-24-2010, 08:38 AM
First of all, this hasn't just NOW begun, it's been like this, for years. You shouldn't have to need someone in the booth to "corral" you into acting like a professional baseball announcer. Something's not right about that, like maybe, just maybe, you shouldn't have the job in the first place if you need that. And the Hawk has clearly shown that he does need that "help" but no, it's okay, because he's "our homer".

Why should this type of leeway exist for him? It goes beyond just being a homer or using catchphrases. He's a HORRIBLE play by play announcer. He fails at the basic necessities of the job. And he get's a pass on that for being "unique"? Or, in another word, bad? I guess Joe Morgan is unique as well, oddly enough it doesn't seem to keep anyone and everyone from wanting to throw him from the press box.

He shouldn't be apologizing to Frank for sitting through that game, he should be apologizing to the VIEWERS, if there were any left at that point, that had to put up with his non-stop crying and outrageous claims from everything to insinuating that there's some sort of conspiracy by MLB against the White Sox to have Joe West in the crew for that series to setting up some bizarre personal vendetta which went all the way back to Buehrle's game against Cleveland to pretty much outright encouraging THROWING at umpires. He can recite all the catchphrases he wants to, just....be.....professional. He cannot do it.

g0g0
08-24-2010, 08:38 AM
i really don't know what is worse: Harrelson being santo or harrelson being harrelson.

+1

DrCrawdad
08-24-2010, 08:47 AM
Ken Harrelson can complete a thought and a sentence. Santo can not.

Craig Grebeck
08-24-2010, 08:48 AM
Ken Harrelson can complete a thought and a sentence. Santo can not.
That is the essential difference. Though one might argue that Santo's dementia makes him all the more likable, where as Hawk is a ****ing ******* through and through.

Also, I loved seeing the strike zone chart postgame on Sunday. The Royals were screwed by West. We've got nothing to complain about. Don't tell Hawk that, though.

DrCrawdad
08-24-2010, 08:50 AM
That is the essential difference. Though one might argue that Santo's dementia makes him all the more likable, where as Hawk is a ****ing ******* through and through.


Are you saying you like Santo?

Craig Grebeck
08-24-2010, 09:01 AM
Are you saying you like Santo?
I don't think Ron is an altogether unlikable guy. I don't really care for him, but think he gets a bad rap. Sure, he isn't lucid, but I don't really hold it against him as a person.

Also, I've always felt he is a borderline HOF guy who should probably get in.

DrCrawdad
08-24-2010, 09:25 AM
I don't think Ron is an altogether unlikable guy. I don't really care for him, but think he gets a bad rap. Sure, he isn't lucid, but I don't really hold it against him as a person.

Also, I've always felt he is a borderline HOF guy who should probably get in.

How in the hades does Santo get a bad rap? Lucidity is just one issue with Santo as a broadcaster. The guy can't complete a sentence. The guy adds nothing to broadcast other than groans. It seems to me that a broadcaster, especially on radio, should be able to speak intelligibly.

Santo may very well be a swell guy. I don't dislike him personally, in fact I respect what he's accomplished in spite of his diabetes. But that can't cover over the fact that Santo is lousy in the one thing you're suppose to do as a broadcaster (again, especially on the radio side) be able to speak.

kba
08-24-2010, 09:49 AM
Also, is it really necessary to have a thread bashing Hawk Harrelson every two weeks? This has to be the 7th or 8th one this season alone and I have a feeling the same group of posters keeps rehashing the same thread. Are we really breaking new ground here? You either like him or you don't. There doesn't seem to be much middle ground here and there never has been.

For me, it's a big issue because I worry Hawk is hurting the team's effort to build its fan base. For every team, the TV broadcasts are one of the biggest potential promotional tools. A good announcer and an entertaining telecast can make new fans out of a lot of young people who are just learning the game, older people who have never followed baseball before, or casual viewers who have never adopted one team as their own. (Think about all the people who became Sox and Cubs fans after hearing Harry sing, spell players' names backwards, and tell them over and over, "You can't beat fun at the old ballpark."

If even the die-hard fans on this board are finding the games hard to listen to on TV, how many other people are going to become Sox fans after hearing a few innings of Hawk's moping and complaining? Can you really imagine any father saying to his kids, "Watching that Sox game on TV was great fun; let's get in the car tomorrow and head down to the ballpark."

hawkjt
08-24-2010, 09:54 AM
First of all, this hasn't just NOW begun, it's been like this, for years. You shouldn't have to need someone in the booth to "corral" you into acting like a professional baseball announcer. Something's not right about that, like maybe, just maybe, you shouldn't have the job in the first place if you need that. And the Hawk has clearly shown that he does need that "help" but no, it's okay, because he's "our homer".

Why should this type of leeway exist for him? It goes beyond just being a homer or using catchphrases. He's a HORRIBLE play by play announcer. He fails at the basic necessities of the job. And he get's a pass on that for being "unique"? Or, in another word, bad? I guess Joe Morgan is unique as well, oddly enough it doesn't seem to keep anyone and everyone from wanting to throw him from the press box.

He shouldn't be apologizing to Frank for sitting through that game, he should be apologizing to the VIEWERS, if there were any left at that point, that had to put up with his non-stop crying and outrageous claims from everything to insinuating that there's some sort of conspiracy by MLB against the White Sox to have Joe West in the crew for that series to setting up some bizarre personal vendetta which went all the way back to Buehrle's game against Cleveland to pretty much outright encouraging THROWING at umpires. He can recite all the catchphrases he wants to, just....be.....professional. He cannot do it.

You sound like Hawk going after West.
He never insinuated that MLB was conspiring against the Sox by putting West in this series. He simply expressed surprise.
All the way back to the Buehrle games? It was this season. It was blatant. It was the only balks called on MB all season,and only the second time in his whole career he has ever been thrown out. If you think West does not ''remember'' all the way back to the spring, you are the one who is not lucid.
West is reviled around baseball,the most reviled ump out there. It is not just Hawk.
Hawk went overboard on Sunday,but it was as much about Friday nites call as Sundays calls.
Hawk does question calls,but not like Sunday. We all have eyes, we can see when the Sox are getting squeezed,so Hawk is simply voicing what we are thinking already.
Morgan is a color guy,Hawk is play by play. Different jobs.
I like some flavor with my Sox games...I don't embrace bland,generic booths for my team.

AnkleSox
08-24-2010, 09:58 AM
I liked Hawk's catchphrases when I was six or seven. I've hated them since I was about twelve. Combine that with his incoherent and egomaniacal banter, bitching about umpires, and constantly kissing the Twins' asses, and he renders himself intolerable to my ears.

I usually just turn on music when I'm watching the game.

Rdy2PlayBall
08-24-2010, 10:25 AM
Do you mind if I use this on my facebook?Sure, I don't mind.

BringHomeDaBacon
08-24-2010, 11:56 AM
Hawk's act could not be more tired and played out. If you've ever played a video game, you know that after a few games you've heard every comment the game's "commentator" is likely to make. That's basically Hawk.

Rdy2PlayBall
08-24-2010, 12:01 PM
Hawk's act could not be more tired and played out. If you've ever played a video game, you know that after a few games you've heard every comment the game's "commentator" is likely to make. That's basically Hawk.I bet if you tried, you'd only be able to guess "You can put it on the board", "he gone", and possibly "don't stop now boys". He's not THAT obvious...
I know what you mean though... but I think it's fine having catchphrases.

soltrain21
08-24-2010, 12:08 PM
I bet if you tried, you'd only be able to guess "You can put it on the board", "he gone", and possibly "don't stop now boys". He's not THAT obvious...
I know what you mean though... but I think it's fine having catchphrases.

Bull****.

Can O Corn
Chopper, two hopper
ducksnort
mattabattaloca
hangwiffum
get foul, it will
right size wrong shape

I could call the exact same game Hawk does. I know what he says in every situation. He is terrible.

MARTINMVP
08-24-2010, 12:09 PM
The announcing situation in general with the White Sox really has me worried as a fan.

Hawk is on his way to becoming intolerable (I'm still a new White Sox fan... give me time). I don't expect them to remove Hawk, so I won't grade the Sox on that.

While the addition of Stone is great, you look at the radio side, which is rather bland. Think back about the previous disaster that was Chris Singleton. Think how they let John Rooney walk free after 2005. Back to the TV side, think about the other fill-in announcers in the past. They are always bad. Brook Boyer or whoever is in charge of assigning announcers has done a poor job, overall, in my opinion.

The day that Hawk is no longer doing games, or goes on a limited schedule, are they going to bring in some boob who may have ties to the organization, but has no ability to talk or analyze? Do they put Farmer on the TV side and put the new boob in radio with Jackson?

I am concerned about this.

Rdy2PlayBall
08-24-2010, 12:12 PM
Bull****.

Can O Corn
Chopper, two hopper
ducksnort
mattabattaloca
hangwiffum
get foul, it will
right size wrong shape

I could call the exact same game Hawk does. I know what he says in every situation. He is terrible.Those are ones he says very often, but not every single time. It's bad, but not video game bad.

Noneck
08-24-2010, 12:19 PM
The day that Hawk is no longer doing games, or goes on a limited schedule, are they going to bring in some boob who may have ties to the organization, but has no ability to talk or analyze? Do they put Farmer on the TV side and put the new boob in radio with Jackson?

I am concerned about this.

There is a solution out there, Let the carnival barker have his farewell tour next year. Then bring in a true blue Sox fan and great announcer when his contract expires. Dave Wills.

#1swisher
08-24-2010, 12:22 PM
http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/7571/8191.jpg

sorry...

R2PB, you have nothing to apologize for. I think this is awesome!

Watching losing baseball is no fun for anyone. Listening to Stone in the booth, without Hawk the other day, made me realize that I like Hawks specific style of broadcasting.

Just my opinion.

Dan H
08-24-2010, 12:57 PM
Harrelson's catch phases and homerism don't bother me. You won't find any announcer for any major league team not cheering that team on. And I can live with the phrases.

What I don't want is excuse making. I realize that umpires are no where as good as they once were. And Joe West is awful. But other than making official complaints, there is nothing a team can do about the umpires. Some calls can be really frustrating but other than that, the umpiring shouldn't be the focus of the broadcast.

Also, Harrelson is the TV play-by-play man. He is not the GM of field manager. Let those guys fight the battles.

The recent losing streak has been bad enough without this guy whining. And the blame for the recent losing rests with the team and no one else.

areilly
08-24-2010, 01:01 PM
All the way back to the Buehrle games? It was this season. It was blatant. It was the only balks called on MB all season,and only the second time in his whole career he has ever been thrown out. If you think West does not ''remember'' all the way back to the spring, you are the one who is not lucid.

This is an incomplete paraphrasing, though. Hawk's point was that West has had it out for specifically and exclusively for the Sox at least since Ozzie Guillen came aboard, which was seven years ago (if not longer). The Buehrle incident was just a link in a longer chain.

What he left out was that, by most accounts, West has it out for every team. In that regard, the Sox are not special.

MARTINMVP
08-24-2010, 01:02 PM
There is a solution out there, Let the carnival barker have his farewell tour next year. Then bring in a true blue Sox fan and great announcer when his contract expires. Dave Wills.

That would actually be great! I hope the Sox front office isn't arrogant enough to dismiss that.

SoxandtheCityTee
08-24-2010, 01:11 PM
I agree Hawk's not aging well. I was surprised when he said Sunday that he was "stunned" or whatever that Joe West was assigned to the series. I revile West as much as the rest of MLB teams and fans but this seemed to go "outside the game" in way that I can't recall Hawk doing before. Sure, he'll never let those balks called against Burls go, I expect that. But that's a specific and relatively recent in-game incident, and Hawk has a long memory anyway, as we all know. This other thing left me :scratch:.

The increasing use of catchphrases -- again, they've always been there, I've enjoyed them but now there are more of them and they are used more often -- also signals to me that Hawk is running out of ways to keep it fresh and is falling back on these.

chisoxfanatic
08-24-2010, 01:15 PM
I LOVE LOVE LOVE Hawk, and he's my 2nd favorite sports broadcaster ever behind Pat Foley, but I'm getting SIIIIIIIIIICK and tired of constantly hearing "Don't stop now boys!!!!" Everything else about you I think highly of, Hawk, but could you PLEASE quit using that phrase?

hawkjt
08-24-2010, 01:58 PM
I LOVE LOVE LOVE Hawk, and he's my 2nd favorite sports broadcaster ever behind Pat Foley, but I'm getting SIIIIIIIIIICK and tired of constantly hearing "Don't stop now boys!!!!" Everything else about you I think highly of, Hawk, but could you PLEASE quit using that phrase?

yea, it almost seems like clockwork the last couple of weeks that when Hawks says it...rally-killer,immediately. I have found myself hoping he will hold off saying it til the Sox score a couple...cus when he says it,they stop..now.

VeeckAsInWreck
08-24-2010, 01:58 PM
If you don't like Hawk, mute your TV. I on the other hand still enjoy listening to him. He beats any cookie cutter announcer that's out there.

That Sunday game when Stone did the game by himself really made me appreciate Hawk.

pythons007
08-24-2010, 02:20 PM
I don't know where this thread has gone after the first couple posts, but to compare Hawk to Santo is insane! Santo puts nothing into the broadcasts, and the words that he does say could be articulated better by a 5th grader. I guarentee Santo is by far the worst broadcaster of all the 30 MLB teams.

Sad
08-24-2010, 02:23 PM
http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/7571/8191.jpg

that's comedy!

when's Episode #2 due out? :tongue:

downstairs
08-24-2010, 02:26 PM
I love Hawk. Grew up listening to him. But it sure is looking more and more like its time to hang it up. Or, someone needs to get into his head and tell him to cut out the BS.

I have no problem with a one-off ump comment. When something happens. Right that second. But to go on and on and on and on about it... it takes away my enjoyment of the game.

ewokpelts
08-24-2010, 02:34 PM
hawk's nuts. ronnie's senile. big diff.

Nellie_Fox
08-24-2010, 02:49 PM
yea, it almost seems like clockwork the last couple of weeks that when Hawks says it...rally-killer,immediately. I have found myself hoping he will hold off saying it til the Sox score a couple...cus when he says it,they stop..now.
You can't possibly be superstitious enough to believe there's any connection. It's not even like the players hear him.

chisoxfanatic
08-24-2010, 03:15 PM
yea, it almost seems like clockwork the last couple of weeks that when Hawks says it...rally-killer,immediately. I have found myself hoping he will hold off saying it til the Sox score a couple...cus when he says it,they stop..now.
LOL! Maybe not a rally-killer, but it seems he says it even when the Sox get a lead-off double!

Rdy2PlayBall
08-24-2010, 03:26 PM
that's comedy!

when's Episode #2 due out? :tongue:One for every thread where everyone is bashing Hawk. :D:

Lip Man 1
08-24-2010, 03:46 PM
Noneck:

I don't think Dave will ever be in the mix for a Sox position unfortunately, until new ownership arrives.

I've been told there were some in the front office pushing for Dave to get the job when Rooney left but they could never sway JR on it. I don't know what JR didn't care for regarding Dave but ultimately he makes the final call.

Lip

Noneck
08-24-2010, 04:07 PM
Noneck:

I don't think Dave will ever be in the mix for a Sox position unfortunately, until new ownership arrives.

I've been told there were some in the front office pushing for Dave to get the job when Rooney left but they could never sway JR on it. I don't know what JR didn't care for regarding Dave but ultimately he makes the final call.

Lip
Lip,
You just ruined my day.

Bob Roarman
08-24-2010, 04:10 PM
You sound like Hawk going after West.
He never insinuated that MLB was conspiring against the Sox by putting West in this series. He simply expressed surprise.
All the way back to the Buehrle games? It was this season. It was blatant. It was the only balks called on MB all season,and only the second time in his whole career he has ever been thrown out. If you think West does not ''remember'' all the way back to the spring, you are the one who is not lucid.
West is reviled around baseball,the most reviled ump out there. It is not just Hawk.
Hawk went overboard on Sunday,but it was as much about Friday nites call as Sundays calls.
Hawk does question calls,but not like Sunday. We all have eyes, we can see when the Sox are getting squeezed,so Hawk is simply voicing what we are thinking already.
Morgan is a color guy,Hawk is play by play. Different jobs.
I like some flavor with my Sox games...I don't embrace bland,generic booths for my team.

You shouldn't have to mute the game because of some idiot that can't just DO HIS JOB. I'm not the one who has the job to do, he does. He talked about it numerous times. He was "surprised" they assigned West to that series. Then he's talking about throwing at umpires who don't give you calls. To even bring those things up as any kind of point is ridiculous. He's an umpire who works in the league. You're going to get him. He hijacked the entire broadcast on his own vendetta against an umpire. Name one other broadcaster that pulls that kind of crap. It's not just that game. Any game, where there's a questionable call (to him), be it West or any other umpire, he will harp on it and HARP on it and keep going back to it the entire game. The calls even out throughout the season. You get some, you don't get some.

He's talking about "Oh I don't think we're gunna get any close calls this game Hurt, I think we're just gunna have to beat this team. This Royals team, I tell you what..."

Give me a ****ing break Hawk. These are the ROYALS. They get murdered every damn season. They aren't "going in the right direction". Bland play by play gets boring yes. You know what's worse? Bad play by play.

SSrep
08-24-2010, 04:32 PM
Like a few of you have said...I've enjoyed Hawk throughout the years but my God, he's a robot up there now. I still listen to him, but some of the things recently do frustrate me.

Side question, does anybody else find themselves saying things under their breath because Hawk has instilled it in you throughout the years? For example, every time there's a shot down the line. Let's say the Sox are up to bat, if it lands fair, I always follow up his "Stay Fair!" with "It Will!" I'm not proud of it, but it's just the repetition. My girlfriend makes fun of me about it when she hears me say something right before Hawk. But again, not proud of it...

pythons007
08-24-2010, 04:34 PM
Give me a ****ing break Hawk. These are the ROYALS. They get murdered every damn season. They aren't "going in the right direction". Bland play by play gets boring yes. You know what's worse? Bad play by play.

Be it as it may....the Sox don't beat the Royals.

Bob Roarman
08-24-2010, 04:40 PM
Maybe that should tell you something about the Sox then, and not the umpires. No, no, couldn't be that, could it?

downstairs
08-24-2010, 04:49 PM
Like a few of you have said...I've enjoyed Hawk throughout the years but my God, he's a robot up there now. I still listen to him, but some of the things recently do frustrate me.

Side question, does anybody else find themselves saying things under their breath because Hawk has instilled it in you throughout the years? For example, every time there's a shot down the line. Let's say the Sox are up to bat, if it lands fair, I always follow up his "Stay Fair!" with "It Will!" I'm not proud of it, but it's just the repetition. My girlfriend makes fun of me about it when she hears me say something right before Hawk. But again, not proud of it...

I yell "stretch" all the time, even when I'm not watching a game. We're leaving a bar and my friend needs to quickly finish his beer: "Stretch! Get that drink back there!"

Yeah, I'm a dork.

rdwj
08-24-2010, 04:53 PM
He's not as good as he used to be, but I still love Hawk. He's NOWHERE near Santo - I mean, come on! Santo is a mumbling buffoon.

Jerko
08-24-2010, 05:10 PM
LOL! Maybe not a rally-killer, but it seems he says it even when the Sox get a lead-off double!

He says it when any guy gets on base. :angry: Wait till you score a ****in run or 2 at least. It's like when Nancy used to play na na good bye with the Sox down 10.

tony1972
08-24-2010, 06:52 PM
For me, it's a big issue because I worry Hawk is hurting the team's effort to build its fan base. For every team, the TV broadcasts are one of the biggest potential promotional tools. A good announcer and an entertaining telecast can make new fans out of a lot of young people who are just learning the game, older people who have never followed baseball before, or casual viewers who have never adopted one team as their own. (Think about all the people who became Sox and Cubs fans after hearing Harry sing, spell players' names backwards, and tell them over and over, "You can't beat fun at the old ballpark."

If even the die-hard fans on this board are finding the games hard to listen to on TV, how many other people are going to become Sox fans after hearing a few innings of Hawk's moping and complaining? Can you really imagine any father saying to his kids, "Watching that Sox game on TV was great fun; let's get in the car tomorrow and head down to the ballpark."

I do think Hawk hurts the Sox TV ratings..but probably helps the Sox radio ratings...I know people who listen to the game..rather than watch because Hawk is so annoying...

MarySwiss
08-24-2010, 07:21 PM
Pretty much sums up my feelings on the Hawk too. He isn't perfect and his best days are behind him now (I truly believe his peak was in the early 90s with Tom Paciorek) but I'm still glad he is in the booth. I've grown used to having him there every Summer and it will be sad to me when he is gone. If some Hawk detractors found him to be "out of control" during the KC series, you have to remember he had Frank Thomas with him in the booth this weekend. Normally, Steve Stone corrals the Hawk a bit and keeps him more focused but this time he had Big Hurt (whom I love) but he is just going along with what Hawk says because he is new at broadcasting and is also a big Sox fan.

Also, is it really necessary to have a thread bashing Hawk Harrelson every two weeks? This has to be the 7th or 8th one this season alone and I have a feeling the same group of posters keeps rehashing the same thread. Are we really breaking new ground here? You either like him or you don't. There doesn't seem to be much middle ground here and there never has been.


Well said. I love Hawk, and for that reason, I am not going to read the rest of this thread.

I was in NW Iowa last week, which meant I got the Twins feed. Which meant I had to listen to--God help me!--Blyleven. The game was muted most of the time, and I so longed for Hawk.

MARTINMVP
08-24-2010, 07:55 PM
Noneck:

I don't think Dave will ever be in the mix for a Sox position unfortunately, until new ownership arrives.

I've been told there were some in the front office pushing for Dave to get the job when Rooney left but they could never sway JR on it. I don't know what JR didn't care for regarding Dave but ultimately he makes the final call.

Lip

That is discouraging news.

Bump34
08-24-2010, 09:52 PM
Noneck:

I don't think Dave will ever be in the mix for a Sox position unfortunately, until new ownership arrives.

I've been told there were some in the front office pushing for Dave to get the job when Rooney left but they could never sway JR on it. I don't know what JR didn't care for regarding Dave but ultimately he makes the final call.

Lip

Well that stinks...:whiner:

ChiSoxGirl
08-24-2010, 09:59 PM
Well that stinks...:whiner:

Trust me, Dave... you're not the only one who thinks that!

Lip Man 1
08-24-2010, 11:23 PM
Dave:

I feel awful right now. I just assumed that you knew this! My sincere apologies my friend for the way I handled this.

Lip

shingo10
08-24-2010, 11:25 PM
People will keep complaining every 2 weeks like always and Hawk will keep calling games and keep yelling at umpries and keep rooting for the Sox.

It's very easy to switch the radio on or hit the mute button.

Hawk doesn't plan on leaving soon and he will never be fired. Just isn't gonna happen. And since he plans on dying in the booth I guess people either need to deal with him or not listen to him.

PeteWard
08-24-2010, 11:28 PM
If you don't like Hawk, mute your TV. I on the other hand still enjoy listening to him. He beats any cookie cutter announcer that's out there.

That Sunday game when Stone did the game by himself really made me appreciate Hawk.

I am a Sox fan and I should not have to mute my team's announcer. But I do. Sick of this response.

fisk4ever
08-24-2010, 11:29 PM
Bull****.

Can O Corn
Chopper, two hopper
ducksnort
mattabattaloca
hangwiffum
get foul, it will
right size wrong shape

I could call the exact same game Hawk does. I know what he says in every situation. He is terrible.

Dadgummit, it has taken a Bolingbrook bounce for the worse. Sometimes he is so bent on getting his cliche out, he forgets to describe the play. I hate having to mute when I feel a "Don't stop now, Boys" coming on. When he coins a new nickname or phrase, he wears it out fast.

Ye-ess, after Sunday's mess I decided that this week I would keep track of how many times per game he repeated each cliche, but I couldn't cinch it up and hunker down enough. I liked him for years, but now his game is so ovah.

hawkjt
08-24-2010, 11:31 PM
Sight seen tonite on MLBNetwork:

Terry Francona,Seattle Manager,and Joe West out in the outfield at Fenway before the game tonite. West was in civies,and they were discussing the coming rain...altho it was still not raining. West had the call again as it was Seattles last time into Boston(same exact scenario as Sox in KC last friday)....radar showed some rain in the area...West calls the game well in advance of start time after discussing with managers.

Wonder if he talked with Ozzie about the weather last week before the game?

Tonite, Hawk had settled down,because it was a well called game....go figure.

Lip Man 1
08-24-2010, 11:41 PM
Maybe West was fined again by Proud To Be Your Bud? Personally I think this just shows a tad more that he's got an agenda against Ozzie and the Sox.

Lip

Nellie_Fox
08-25-2010, 12:43 AM
I am a Sox fan and I should not have to mute my team's announcer. But I do. Sick of this response.So the fans who like him should have to lose him so that YOU don't have to mute your TV? It's not like this is unanimous or anything.

PeteWard
08-25-2010, 01:19 AM
So the fans who like him should have to lose him so that YOU don't have to mute your TV? It's not like this is unanimous or anything.

It does not have to be unanimous. I am the sole arbiter of good taste on this board.:wink:

Bob Roarman
08-25-2010, 07:43 AM
So the fans who like him should have to lose him so that YOU don't have to mute your TV? It's not like this is unanimous or anything.

They aren't losing much. Keeping him around for nostalgia's sake isn't a very good reason. Because I can't think of any other reason, especially not any pertaining to performing well at his actual job, his primary duty, of calling the game of baseball, to keep him. I find it confusing that in the same forum where guys in the sports business like Joe Cowley are ripped for being a frat boy or unprofessional (which is all true and deserved) some of those same people are somehow blinded and cannot see that same,even more glaring, fault of Harrelson.

hawkjt
08-25-2010, 09:08 AM
They aren't losing much. Keeping him around for nostalgia's sake isn't a very good reason. Because I can't think of any other reason, especially not any pertaining to performing well at his actual job, his primary duty, of calling the game of baseball, to keep him. I find it confusing that in the same forum where guys in the sports business like Joe Cowley are ripped for being a frat boy or unprofessional (which is all true and deserved) some of those same people are somehow blinded and cannot see that same,even more glaring, fault of Harrelson.

Even fans of Hawk have said he was over the top on Sunday. Apparently that is not enough for some fans, they demand he be fired on the spot ,I guess. Lets just say even with all his warts, Hawk has built up more credit in the loyalty bank with a lot of Sox fans than Joe West or Joe Cowley.

Hawk was unprofessional,fine, but so were West and so is Cowley. When they get fired for their behavior,then we maybe we talk about Hawk.

AnkleSox
08-25-2010, 09:49 AM
I personally know far more White Sox fans who see Hawk as a complete and utter joke as opposed to something that is beneficial for the franchise. I think as time goes by more and more people are turning on Hawk and it won't be too long until his detractors far outnumber his supporters. He may have been a decent announcer in the past but to me he's sabotaging that by continuing on as he is.

Bob Roarman
08-25-2010, 10:19 AM
Even fans of Hawk have said he was over the top on Sunday. Apparently that is not enough for some fans, they demand he be fired on the spot ,I guess. Lets just say even with all his warts, Hawk has built up more credit in the loyalty bank with a lot of Sox fans than Joe West or Joe Cowley.

Hawk wasunprofessional,fine, but so were West and so is Cowley. When they get fired for their behavior,then we maybe we talk about Hawk.

It's not just that game, it's ongoing, it's continuous. He's not going to change. It's not in anyone's benefit, only if I guess you find him and his tales of yesteryear amusing. But as far calling the game of baseball, nope. Little to no value. It's impossible when you got a guy that just brings in these false obstacles and phantoms that stand in the way of winning and bull**** baseball "stuff" like team chemistry or beaning players to "prove something". Hawk struggles to discuss the game rationally.

And Stone barely holds that fort by himself, and even with him, you can tell he's compromising because he's with the Hawk. They can't have these awkward silences every 15-20 minutes where Stone could probably point out any given thing the Hawk was just talking about and explain how it's WRONG. And that's a massive detriment to anyone trying to learn ANYTHING about the game listening to these two. Listen to Stone away from Hawk and then with Hawk during the games, you can tell the difference. Without Stone, forget it, it's a free for all, anything he wants to go on a tangent about. It wasn't just that one instance. It's been years of this crap, stuff like not saying a word for an inning or more because he's upset. And you call that credit? Give me a ****ing break dude. You must be listening to different games than I have over the past decade plus.

areilly
08-25-2010, 10:32 AM
Hawk was unprofessional,fine, but so were West and so is Cowley. When they get fired for their behavior,then we maybe we talk about Hawk.

That's by far the worst line of thinking I've ever heard on the subject.

Jerko
08-25-2010, 10:37 AM
I have been known to use Hawk's cliches in real life to mess with people, and admittedly I didn't hear him Sunday, but after last night's game it's radio or mute button for me. Between "don't stop now boys" 2000 times a game, to his screaming at the top of his lungs after the DP in the 9th inning, and his little comment about "that doubleheader (Saturday) just tore us up, and somewhere one man is smiling", I'm about done. IMO Fox and the Royals are why the DH was the way it was, not Joe West. And Hawk, how many "getaway" days for the other team have the Sox scheduled home night games this year? All but 3? So don't whine when another team inconveniences the Sox.

hawkjt
08-25-2010, 10:44 AM
It's not just that game, it's ongoing, it's continuous. He's not going to change. It's not in anyone's benefit, only if I guess you find him and his tales of yesteryear amusing. But as far calling the game of baseball, nope. Little to no value. It's impossible when you got a guy that just brings in these false obstacles and phantoms that stand in the way of winning and bull**** baseball "stuff" like team chemistry or beaning players to "prove something". Hawk struggles to discuss the game rationally.

And Stone barely holds that fort by himself, and even with him, you can tell he's compromising because he's with the Hawk. They can't have these awkward silences every 15-20 minutes where Stone could probably point out any given thing the Hawk was just talking about and explain how it's WRONG. And that's a massive detriment to anyone trying to learn ANYTHING about the game listening to these two. Listen to Stone away from Hawk and then with Hawk during the games, you can tell the difference. Without Stone, forget it, it's a free for all, anything he wants to go on a tangent about. It wasn't just that one instance. It's been years of this crap, stuff like not saying a word for an inning or more because he's upset. And you call that credit? Give me a ****ing break dude. You must be listening to different games than I have over the past decade plus.

So last nite Hawk was the same as Sunday? You say it is continuous,like Sunday was a typical Hawk call.
I guess we will just agree to disagree on the seriousness of this situation.
When the Sox lose, for me,nothing is fun about the game,but when they win, it is all good. The broadcasters don't dictate my enjoyment of the game.

Bob Roarman
08-25-2010, 11:12 AM
Hahaha, "somewhere one man is smiling". What a ****ing cartoon character. And yes, Sunday, that kind of reaction is typical. If a call doesn't go the Sox way, if it's questionable or missed, he will CONTINUE over and over throughout the game to go back to that ONE moment. Sometimes he will say it's the turning point of the game, even if the Sox had stranded a dozen men on base. How can you even argue that otherwise? He's been doing that for years. It was worse that game because he had Frank there with him, who he could easily, easily push and it was Joe West.

It's the image that the Hawk portrays on the organization. He's an unprofessional boob that the Sox have not only let him go on his doddering ways in the broadcast booth, but at one time let GM the damn team.

Everyone is tired of stereotypes that the White Sox and/or it's fans get labeled with, and here some of us are defending one of the prime reasons for it, the good ole' Hawkeroo, just...because. I don't really know the reason. I guess because he's been here for a long time, and he's "unique"(read: bad) in his job field. So yeah, just because. It's like that quote from the Shawshank Redemption.

"At first you hate it. Then you get used to it. Enough time passes, you get so that you depend on it. That's institutionalized."

Nellie_Fox
08-25-2010, 11:25 AM
I'm fairly certain that the few of you who keep posting Hawk bashing posts over and over again are in the minority, but the rest get tired of arguing about it. When you aren't worked up about something, it gets very tiring arguing with people who are, so it starts to look like everybody hates him.

VeeckAsInWreck
08-25-2010, 11:30 AM
I'm fairly certain that the few of you who keep posting Hawk bashing posts over and over again are in the minority, but the rest get tired of arguing about it. When you aren't worked up about something, it gets very tiring arguing with people who are, so it starts to look like everybody hates him.

Thanks for saying what needed to be said. The Hawk bashing is about as fun to read as threads about attendance.

SephClone89
08-25-2010, 11:32 AM
Like many, I also once loved Hawk. Especially as a kid I thought he was great.

This year, though...too much. I think I'm done with him. As someone who really enjoys learning about baseball broadcasting, I just can't believe the way he does his job. He used to be a competent albeit very strange announcer. Now he is just a...I don't even know what to call it.

Noneck
08-25-2010, 11:43 AM
"At first you hate it. Then you get used to it. Enough time passes, you get so that you depend on it. That's institutionalized."

And I have been like Andy Dufresne and Lucas Jackson regarding this subject since day one.

ilsox7
08-25-2010, 11:52 AM
Like many, I also once loved Hawk. Especially as a kid I thought he was great.

This year, though...too much. I think I'm done with him. As someone who really enjoys learning about baseball broadcasting, I just can't believe the way he does his job. He used to be a competent albeit very strange announcer. Now he is just a...I don't even know what to call it.

Agreed. He has gone downhill in an awful way the last couple of years. The kicker for me was his "speech" at Hawk Day at the park this year.

Bob Roarman
08-25-2010, 11:58 AM
I remember that. There were about nine or ten thousand in attendance at the time (and maybe for the game) that got to hear the ramblings of a clown.

fisk4ever
08-25-2010, 12:04 PM
Even if you are still a fan of Hawk, do you agree that the broadcast would improve if he used the Hawkisms only half as often...or don't they bother you...or do you enjoy them?

I wish someone in authority would suggest that he edit himself. Limit "Stretch...Get on back there. It won't. Dadgum it." to situations that are potential home runs, for example.

Nellie_Fox
08-25-2010, 01:31 PM
Even if you are still a fan of Hawk, do you agree that the broadcast would improve if he used the Hawkisms only half as often...or don't they bother you...or do you enjoy them? Generally, they don't bother me. I have to admit that now I chuckle when he says "don't stop now, boyzzzz" because I know it is causing so many people to go into apoplexy.

cub killer
08-25-2010, 04:48 PM
If Hawk didn't live and die by the White Sox, then I'd say can him. His passion for the team is the only thing he has going for him. Listening to that country accent of his actually lowers IQ points. It's been proven.

What sucks is that Hawk alone has driven away some potential fans. So many times people have told me that they'd watch Sox games if they didn't have to hear the Hawk.

I hope that when Hawk is finally replaced, his replacement will be the exact opposite. An Ivy-league type northerner who's mostly neutral and doesn't use any catchphrases.

Quentin08
08-25-2010, 05:21 PM
If Hawk didn't live and die by the White Sox, then I'd say can him. His passion for the team is the only thing he has going for him. Listening to that country accent of his actually lowers IQ points. It's been proven.

What sucks is that Hawk alone has driven away some potential fans. So many times people have told me that they'd watch Sox games if they didn't have to hear the Hawk.

I hope that when Hawk is finally replaced, his replacement will be the exact opposite. An Ivy-league type northerner who's mostly neutral and doesn't use any catchphrases.

I've heard that from a lot of people too, especially recently. They just can't handle listening to him.

It's getting to the point where every single play has its own catchphrase. "Dreaded lead-off walk".. and he says it the same way every time too. It drives me nuts. Just when I'm getting into it.."Don't stop now boyssss".. ughh. When things are going great, "We will make the post season". Ok, Hawk, if you say so. Then when there's a lull in the game, he starts talking about the old days.

mcsoxfan
08-25-2010, 07:54 PM
Do you think Harrelson would have carried on as much if Stone was with him? He knew he had a puppet in Thomas but I wonder how this would have played out with Stone there.

Frank is not stupid. He knew what was going on.
He told himself, it was just a short term thing.
Why make it any worse.
For what those announcers get paid, wouldn't you put with him for day or so?
Can't be any worse than the crap you put with at your respective jobs.
I never cared for Harrelson either.
The team of Rooney and Stone would be a match made in heaven.

tony1972
08-25-2010, 10:35 PM
If Hawk didn't live and die by the White Sox, then I'd say can him. His passion for the team is the only thing he has going for him. Listening to that country accent of his actually lowers IQ points. It's been proven.

What sucks is that Hawk alone has driven away some potential fans. So many times people have told me that they'd watch Sox games if they didn't have to hear the Hawk.

I hope that when Hawk is finally replaced, his replacement will be the exact opposite. An Ivy-league type northerner who's mostly neutral and doesn't use any catchphrases.

Post of the year..I have heard this so many times - at least among more casual baseball fans. I think it's the die-hards that love Hawk. :scratch: But (1) Die - Hards will not fill the park and give the Sox better payroll and (2) the Die-Hards will not help the Sox build the fan base and increase the ratings. The Sox can stick with Hawk..he IS Loyal..but he does keep the Sox from building their fan base (especially among the young).

Rdy2PlayBall
08-25-2010, 10:37 PM
Post of the year..I have heard this so many times - at least among more casual baseball fans. I think it's the die-hards that love Hawk. :scratch: But (1) Die - Hards will not fill the park and give the Sox better payroll and (2) the Die-Hards will not help the Sox build the fan base and increase the ratings. The Sox can stick with Hawk..he IS Loyal..but he does keep the Sox from building their fan base (especially among the young).I'm sure most Cubs fans that are filling the park rarely watch them on TV.

PeteWard
08-25-2010, 10:37 PM
Thanks for saying what needed to be said. The Hawk bashing is about as fun to read as threads about attendance.

So you are being forced to read this thread?

Brian26
08-25-2010, 10:38 PM
Frank is not stupid. He knew what was going on.
He told himself, it was just a short term thing.
Why make it any worse.
For what those announcers get paid, wouldn't you put with him for day or so?
Can't be any worse than the crap you put with at your respective jobs.
I never cared for Harrelson either.
The team of Rooney and Stone would be a match made in heaven.

I'd do anything to see Rooney back with the Sox.

Frank actually disagreed with Hawk a number of times through the weekend but finally just gave up. One example: There was a close pitch called for a strikeout on a Sox batter. Pitch was down the middle just below the knees. Harrelson started whining, and Frank said "maybe a little low but too close to take there, especially center-cut." ...and then Hawk agreed with him.

Brian26
08-25-2010, 10:41 PM
Thanks for saying what needed to be said. The Hawk bashing is about as fun to read as threads about attendance.

Go back and read my first post here. I'm the biggest Hawk supporter there is, but this weekend he was out of line. I'm not complaining about his southern accent or his catch-phrases or his stint as GM. I think, specifically this weekend, the Joe West-nonsense was over the line. I've got no other problems with him and hope he stays with the Sox. I think he owes an apology to the fans who watched any of the broadcasts this weekend. I also know that's not going to happen. Hopefully someone relays this to him, though, so it doesn't happen again.

DrCrawdad
08-25-2010, 11:36 PM
I'm fairly certain that the few of you who keep posting Hawk bashing posts over and over again are in the minority, but the rest get tired of arguing about it. When you aren't worked up about something, it gets very tiring arguing with people who are, so it starts to look like everybody hates him.

In my experience, people who talk about Sox attendance/popularity and bash Hawk while they embrace Santo are usually fans of that other MLB team in Chicago.

Craig Grebeck
08-26-2010, 08:17 AM
In my experience, people who talk about Sox attendance/popularity and bash Hawk while they embrace Santo are usually fans of that other MLB team in Chicago.
Or they could be (brace for it), objective White Sox fans!

Listen, Santo's a yokel. I have no ill will towards him, and the guy seems like the genuine article. Hawk, on the other hand, is a blathering douchebag. This doesn't make me a Cub fan, it makes me a human being with opinions.

DrCrawdad
08-26-2010, 08:54 AM
Or they could be (brace for it), objective White Sox fans!

Listen, Santo's a yokel. I have no ill will towards him, and the guy seems like the genuine article. Hawk, on the other hand, is a blathering douchebag. This doesn't make me a Cub fan, it makes me a human being with opinions.

Hawk's "a blathering douchebag" but Santo's a "genuine article?" :scratch:

Just curious how "genuine" Santo was when he defended and promoted all things Sosa and NEVER uttered the slightest of critical comments about Sosa until the winds changed and it was clear the Cubbies were ready to move on (and waging a PR campaign against Sosa, so when they finally dumped Sosa it wouldn't hurt the Cubbie brand). Was that genuine of Santo? Ron Santo is about as genuine as the rug on his head.

Listen we all are human beings with opinions and in my opinion someone who calls Hawk "a blathering douchebag" but Santo's a "genuine article" should get their head and heart examined, especially when that person claims to be a Sox fan.

And another thing...you can be sure of this too, if Hawk were a multi-decade broadcaster for the other Chicago MLB team you can be sure that he'd be reverentially worshiped in Chicago and no one would dare call him "blathering douchebag." As it is Hawk does not broadcast for that other team, he's been with the Sox all these years. And IMHO for anyone on this board to call Hawk a "blathering douchebag" is shocking, offensive and despicable. Calling Hawk "a blathering douchebag," that's not an opinion from an (self-described) objective person that's a gross personal attack on the man.

Craig Grebeck
08-26-2010, 09:00 AM
Hawk's "a blathering douchebag" but Santo's a "genuine article?" :scratch:

Just curious how "genuine" of Santo was when he defended and promoted all things Sosa and NEVER uttered the slightest of critical comments about Sosa until the winds changed and it was clear the Cubbies were ready to move on (and waging a PR campaign against Sosa, so when they finally dumped Sosa it wouldn't hurt the Cubbie brand). Was that genuine of Santo? Ron Santo is about as genuine as the rug on his head.

Listen we all are human beings with opinions and in my opinion someone who calls Hawk "a blathering douchebag" but Santo's a "genuine article" should get their head and heart examined, especially when that person claims to be a Sox fan.
Craw, please. You are 46 years old. Try acting like it.

(Happy birthday!)

And yes, Hawk is a blathering douchebag. It's like listening to an old-timey baseball guy read Jerry Reinsdorf's internal memos for three hours. He's awful.

But in actuality, happy birthday. I think Santo is the genuine article in part because I, frankly, don't give a **** about Sammy Sosa. His PED use doesn't matter to me, especially when my favorite organization signed Jose Canseco at the end of his career and currently has Tyler Flowers in AAA. Everyone's guilty, Craw. Everyone. Every single organization did something unseemly.

Craig Grebeck
08-26-2010, 09:14 AM
And another thing...you can be sure of this too, if Hawk were a multi-decade broadcaster for the other Chicago MLB team you can be sure that he'd be reverentially worshiped in Chicago and no one would dare call him "blathering douchebag." As it is Hawk does not broadcast for that other team, he's been with the Sox all these years. And IMHO for anyone on this board to call Hawk a "blathering douchebag" is shocking, offensive and despicable. Calling Hawk "a blathering douchebag," that's not an opinion from an (self-described) objective person that's a gross personal attack on the man.
I could not fathom a worse mindset than yours. Doesn't it get tiring comparing everything to the Cubs?

DrCrawdad
08-26-2010, 09:22 AM
I could not fathom a worse mindset than yours. Doesn't it get tiring comparing everything to the Cubs?

What was the subject of this discussion thread? Comparing Santo and Hawk.

Craig Grebeck
08-26-2010, 09:24 AM
What was the subject of this discussion?
You honestly think Hawk Harrelson, with his hubris, bad reputation, and abrasiveness, would be beloved by the city if he was a Cub announcer? Please. Hawk is Hawk.

I mean, if your hypothesis is true, it would just validate your thoughts on Cub fans: they really are idiots.

DrCrawdad
08-26-2010, 09:37 AM
I could not fathom a worse mindset than yours. Doesn't it get tiring comparing everything to the Cubs?

My mindset is this, I find it difficult to silently endure attacks on the Hawk and from the same person in the same breath praise of Santo and all this on a White Sox discussion group.

I'm done.

soltrain21
08-26-2010, 09:38 AM
You honestly think Hawk Harrelson, with his hubris, bad reputation, and abrasiveness, would be beloved by the city if he was a Cub announcer? Please. Hawk is Hawk.

I mean, if your hypothesis is true, it would just validate your thoughts on Cub fans: they really are idiots.

That's my problem with Hawk. Well, biggest problem. He doesn't feel welcoming at all. To me, he is doing the broadcast to hear himself talk. Of course, the constant bitching reflects poorly on our organization in the public, and he is completely self absorbed in his own catchphrases, which I guess goes back to the first part.

Craig Grebeck
08-26-2010, 09:39 AM
My mindset is this, I find it difficult to silently endure attacks on the Hawk and from the same person in the same breath praise of Santo and all this on a White Sox discussion group.

I'm done.
The Cubs are just another organization. Again, just because I think Santo is genuine doesn't mean I like him. I don't like listening to him, but he seems rather likable.

soltrain21
08-26-2010, 09:39 AM
My mindset is this, I find it difficult to silently endure attacks on the Hawk and from the same person in the same breath praise of Santo and all this on a White Sox discussion group.

I'm done.

He never once praised Santo. In fact, the very first thing he said about him was that he was a yokel. The only half-compliment he gave Santo is that he doesn't feel like Santo is faking anything.

ode to veeck
08-26-2010, 09:41 AM
Yesterday's game almost pushed me over the edge. No, I am not talking about our bad performances as of late. I am talking about Ken Harrelson. For ten innings, it was "Joe West this" and "Joe West that." Joe west may be a crummy umpire. Joe West may even have an agenda against the White Sox. But Joe West is not the reason we lost that game yesterday. We lost that game and other games recently because we have been playing bad baseball.

But to listen to Hawk, you would think Joe West was responsible for everything that went wrong for us. And there was Frank Thomas sitting in the booth being Hawk's parrot. If Steve Stone was not on vacation, I don't think Hawk would have gone on his ten inning Joe West rant. With stuff like this, Hawk screaming "STRETCH!!! STRETCH!!!" on routine fly balls hit short of the warning track, "Don't stop now boys!" used at least five times per game, "DADGUMMIT!!!!" on anything that does not go our way, and so on and so forth.

Hawk has turned into Ron Santo. Like Santo, he is more of an emotional cheerleader and less of a broadcaster these days, and this is really diminishing the quality of the broadcast. Steve Stone must have a lot of perseverance in the booth. For years, he had to share the booth with Harry Caray as he diminished over the last years of his broadcasting career. Now, the same thing is happening with Hawk. As tough as it has been watching our team play lately, Hawk's emotions and umpire conspiracy theories don't help.

I am beginning to wonder how much longer Hawk should be in the booth.


Hawk has sucked for decades ...

Jollyroger2
08-26-2010, 10:04 AM
Hawk has sucked for decades ...

Agree. His almost cartoonish buffoonery got old and embarrassing a long time ago. Stone has at least brought some professionalism to the booth. Hawk needs to go. Now.

cards press box
08-26-2010, 11:33 AM
In my experience, people who talk about Sox attendance/popularity and bash Hawk while they embrace Santo are usually fans of that other MLB team in Chicago.

I agree.

You honestly think Hawk Harrelson, with his hubris, bad reputation, and abrasiveness, would be beloved by the city if he was a Cub announcer?

Why not? You may not remember Jack Brickhouse but I do. He was a shameless homer (even more than Hawk) and he didn't have Hawk's depth of knowledge about baseball. Cubs fans loved him.

How about Lou Boudreau? He was a great ballplayer but just a terrible announcer. Cub fans loved him, too.

Harry Caray was, in my view, a great announcer, certainly from his Cardinals years in the mid-40's all the way into the late '80 when illness slowed him down. When Caray was the Sox announcer, he was our icon. Cub fans just hated him back then and called him the worst things you can imagine. But he left the Sox for the Cubs in 1982 and, what do you know, the North Siders went so crazy for him, the club ended up building his statue outside the park.

To be fair, the vast majority of fans usually like their team's announcers and, frankly, being a homer doesn't hurt that at all. If Hawk had been on the North Side all these years, Cubs fans would be joyously qouting his favorite catch phrases.

Listen, Santo's a yokel. I have no ill will towards him, and the guy seems like the genuine article.

Santo, unlike almost any other player turned broadcaster that I can recall, is a fan first and an announcer second. That is very unusual. And, yes, Santo is the genuine article. I cannot imagine that his histrionics are anything but genuine. I would, however, add three points.

1. There has been a lot of revisionist history about Santo. To listen to the WGN party line, Santo has always been a beloved Cub icon. That is simply not the case. Talk to any Cub fan of a certain age and they will tell you that back in the day, Santo was anything but pleasant with the fans, his teammates, the media and pretty much everybody else. That is, I think, the real reason that Santo is not in the Hall of Fame. The media just didn't like him.

Now, Santo's personality doesn't take away from the fact that he was a terrific ballplayer because he certainly was that. But he was not the warm and fuzzy caricature that the Cubs like to portray.

2. Perhaps you don't think so but Hawk is definitely the genuine article, too. I have met Hawk a couple of times and I'm was struck by how absolutely psyched he is to have the job he has. He loves being around the game; he loves being with the ballclub and he lives and dies with his team's fortunes, just as Santo does with his team.

3. You may not accept this, either, but Hawk is a future Hall of Famer as an announcer. No announcer in his era has carried on the long time announcer's tradition of giving great nicknames to ballplayers the way that Hawk has. He is colorful, informative and has been an entertaining announcer for a long time. It's true that he has complained about umpiring a bit too much this year but, after 35 excellent years, that seems like a minor point.

DrCrawdad
08-27-2010, 12:03 AM
I agree.



Why not? You may not remember Jack Brickhouse but I do. He was a shameless homer (even more than Hawk) and he didn't have Hawk's depth of knowledge about baseball. Cubs fans loved him.

How about Lou Boudreau? He was a great ballplayer but just a terrible announcer. Cub fans loved him, too.

Harry Caray was, in my view, a great announcer, certainly from his Cardinals years in the mid-40's all the way into the late '80 when illness slowed him down. When Caray was the Sox announcer, he was our icon. Cub fans just hated him back then and called him the worst things you can imagine. But he left the Sox for the Cubs in 1982 and, what do you know, the North Siders went so crazy for him, the club ended up building his statue outside the park.

To be fair, the vast majority of fans usually like their team's announcers and, frankly, being a homer doesn't hurt that at all. If Hawk had been on the North Side all these years, Cubs fans would be joyously qouting his favorite catch phrases.



Santo, unlike almost any other player turned broadcaster that I can recall, is a fan first and an announcer second. That is very unusual. And, yes, Santo is the genuine article. I cannot imagine that his histrionics are anything but genuine. I would, however, add three points.

1. There has been a lot of revisionist history about Santo. To listen to the WGN party line, Santo has always been a beloved Cub icon. That is simply not the case. Talk to any Cub fan of a certain age and they will tell you that back in the day, Santo was anything but pleasant with the fans, his teammates, the media and pretty much everybody else. That is, I think, the real reason that Santo is not in the Hall of Fame. The media just didn't like him.

Now, Santo's personality doesn't take away from the fact that he was a terrific ballplayer because he certainly was that. But he was not the warm and fuzzy caricature that the Cubs like to portray.

2. Perhaps you don't think so but Hawk is definitely the genuine article, too. I have met Hawk a couple of times and I'm was struck by how absolutely psyched he is to have the job he has. He loves being around the game; he loves being with the ballclub and he lives and dies with his team's fortunes, just as Santo does with his team.

3. You may not accept this, either, but Hawk is a future Hall of Famer as an announcer. No announcer in his era has carried on the long time announcer's tradition of giving great nicknames to ballplayers the way that Hawk has. He is colorful, informative and has been an entertaining announcer for a long time. It's true that he has complained about umpiring a bit too much this year but, after 35 excellent years, that seems like a minor point.

http://janeheller.mlblogs.com/applause.gif
Exactly!

Craig Grebeck
08-27-2010, 12:06 AM
Frankly, I don't care if he makes the HOF. He still sucks.

Bob Roarman
08-27-2010, 12:43 AM
Ken Harrelson
Ernie Harwell

That is ****ing hilarious.

DrCrawdad
08-27-2010, 12:49 AM
Ken Harrelson
Ernie Harwell

That is ****ing hilarious.

You're so right, clearly the Hall of Fame has no place for cartoonish broadcasters.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_3pCRov6WHas/SO9Vp94KSPI/AAAAAAAABXQ/HfQGKAGKIQY/s320/about_harry_pic1.jpg
In 1989, the Baseball Hall of Fame (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baseball_Hall_of_Fame) presented Caray with the Ford C. Frick Award (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Frick_Award) for "major contributions to baseball." He also has his own star on the St. Louis Walk of Fame (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Louis_Walk_of_Fame).

PeteWard
08-27-2010, 12:49 AM
I agree.



Why not? You may not remember Jack Brickhouse but I do. He was a shameless homer (even more than Hawk) and he didn't have Hawk's depth of knowledge about baseball. Cubs fans loved him.

How about Lou Boudreau? He was a great ballplayer but just a terrible announcer. Cub fans loved him, too.

Harry Caray was, in my view, a great announcer, certainly from his Cardinals years in the mid-40's all the way into the late '80 when illness slowed him down. When Caray was the Sox announcer, he was our icon. Cub fans just hated him back then and called him the worst things you can imagine. But he left the Sox for the Cubs in 1982 and, what do you know, the North Siders went so crazy for him, the club ended up building his statue outside the park.

To be fair, the vast majority of fans usually like their team's announcers and, frankly, being a homer doesn't hurt that at all. If Hawk had been on the North Side all these years, Cubs fans would be joyously qouting his favorite catch phrases.



Santo, unlike almost any other player turned broadcaster that I can recall, is a fan first and an announcer second. That is very unusual. And, yes, Santo is the genuine article. I cannot imagine that his histrionics are anything but genuine. I would, however, add three points.

1. There has been a lot of revisionist history about Santo. To listen to the WGN party line, Santo has always been a beloved Cub icon. That is simply not the case. Talk to any Cub fan of a certain age and they will tell you that back in the day, Santo was anything but pleasant with the fans, his teammates, the media and pretty much everybody else. That is, I think, the real reason that Santo is not in the Hall of Fame. The media just didn't like him.

Now, Santo's personality doesn't take away from the fact that he was a terrific ballplayer because he certainly was that. But he was not the warm and fuzzy caricature that the Cubs like to portray.

2. Perhaps you don't think so but Hawk is definitely the genuine article, too. I have met Hawk a couple of times and I'm was struck by how absolutely psyched he is to have the job he has. He loves being around the game; he loves being with the ballclub and he lives and dies with his team's fortunes, just as Santo does with his team.

3. You may not accept this, either, but Hawk is a future Hall of Famer as an announcer. No announcer in his era has carried on the long time announcer's tradition of giving great nicknames to ballplayers the way that Hawk has. He is colorful, informative and has been an entertaining announcer for a long time. It's true that he has complained about umpiring a bit too much this year but, after 35 excellent years, that seems like a minor point.


Both Harreslon and Santo stink. You are creating a false choice. And Brickhouse is in the HOF so not sure what your point is by saying Harrelson will be there. I simply don't care if he has been around so long. It's that much more of him to dislike.

I hated Harrelson's cornpone schtick from the beginning and always thought he was simply not Chicago. (he really should announce for Houston or Texas) But one incident stands out for me . It was the first game at the new park and he had Dan Quayle in the booth. Harrelson was an utter toady. It was the one of the worst displays of ass-kissing ever. Not getting political here. It could have been Walter Mondale or Al Gore or Aaron Freaking Burr. Shameless and disgusting.

As for that other team, I remember things differently. Many of the Cub fans I grew up with loathed Brickhouse and Boudreau. And Vince Lloyd and Milo Hamilton and Jim West. (Only Kup seems to missing from this list of losers!) Just like many a Sox fan hated Jack Drees, Don Drysdale and Lou Brock (as an announcer I mean--he was a great guy).

Harry & Jimmy were by far the best and I loved it when they had Satchel Paige with them. Good times! Both pulled for the Sox but also remained within the boundaries of reality. Both would point it out when bad calls went against the other team. Both got on players who dogged it or who went to sleep on the field. But Harry definitely made a conscious decision the moment he went north that he wanted to end his career in Chi. and he knew he had to refrain from commenting on poor & lazy play to keep his job. It was this honesty which endeared both him and Jimmy to Sox fans. He then went downhill immediately, long before he lost his marbles.

But I do agree that Cub fans came up with rapid self-induced amnesia when Harry moved. They hated him south and loved him north. And yes, Santo was hated by many a Cub fan back in the day, especially when he criticized Don Young on the air for making a crucial error that lost a game during the death-spiral that was Septmeber 69. Again, good times!

Just give Farmer the job. He is good.

RadioheadRocks
08-27-2010, 01:06 AM
But I do agree that Cub fans came up with rapid self-induced amnesia when Harry moved. They hated him south and loved him north. And yes, Santo was hated by many a Cub fan back in the day, especially when he criticized Don Young on the air for making a crucial error that lost a game during the death-spiral that was Septmeber 69. Again, good times!

Well almost rapid self-induced amnesia anyway. Cub fans were pretty much indifferent towards Harry his first two years there (1982 and 83), some of them probably didn't even realize he was there those two years! 1984 was pretty much the flashpoint for Cub hysteria as we now know it.

PeteWard
08-27-2010, 01:22 AM
Well almost rapid self-induced amnesia anyway. Cub fans were pretty much indifferent towards Harry his first two years there (1982 and 83), some of them probably didn't even realize he was there those two years! 1984 was pretty much the flashpoint for Cub hysteria as we now know it.


I know they won their div that year but when did WGN go nationwide? 84 as well? I think that is what made Cub fans what we know and loathe today.

cards press box
08-27-2010, 01:27 AM
Both Harreslon and Santo stink. You are creating a false choice. And Brickhouse is in the HOF so not sure what your point is by saying Harrelson will be there. I simply don't care if he has been around so long. It's that much more of him to dislike.

I hated Harrelson's cornpone schtick from the beginning and always thought he was simply not Chicago. (he really should announce for Houston or Texas) But one incident stands out for me . It was the first game at the new park and he had Dan Quayle in the booth. Harrelson was an utter toady. It was the one of the worst displays of ass-kissing ever. Not getting political here. It could have been Walter Mondale or Al Gore or Aaron Freaking Burr. Shameless and disgusting.

As for that other team, I remember things differently. Many of the Cub fans I grew up with loathed Brickhouse and Boudreau. And Vince Lloyd and Milo Hamilton and Jim West. (Only Kup seems to missing from this list of losers!) Just like many a Sox fan hated Jack Drees, Don Drysdale and Lou Brock (as an announcer I mean--he was a great guy).

Harry & Jimmy were by far the best and I loved it when they had Satchel Paige with them. Good times! Both pulled for the Sox but also remained within the boundaries of reality. Both would point it out when bad calls went against the other team. Both got on players who dogged it or who went to sleep on the field. But Harry definitely made a conscious decision the moment he went north that he wanted to end his career in Chi. and he knew he had to refrain from commenting on poor & lazy play to keep his job. It was this honesty which endeared both him and Jimmy to Sox fans. He then went downhill immediately, long before he lost his marbles.

But I do agree that Cub fans came up with rapid self-induced amnesia when Harry moved. They hated him south and loved him north. And yes, Santo was hated by many a Cub fan back in the day, especially when he criticized Don Young on the air for making a crucial error that lost a game during the death-spiral that was Septmeber 69. Again, good times!

Just give Farmer the job. He is good.

Man, I forgot just how many awful announcers the Cubs had. Jim West? Wow, was he ever bad and WGN occasionally had West announce Hawks games with Boudreau doing in studio work in between periods. You had to really love hockey to actually listen to those guys. As an aside, that's another thing that Rocky Wirtz has done very well: the Hawks may have the best t.v and radio broadcaters in town right now.

I don't view the Harrelson/Santo comparison as a choice of styles. I was just saying that Harrelson, in his won way, is every bit the genuine article that Santo, with all his had wringing on the radio, is. One main difference between them is that Harrelson understands that the fans are the engine that drives the whole baseball machine and. in his dealings with fans, he has absolutely not forgotten that fact. What drives Harrrelson's style and personality, I think, is the realization that he has a great job and it's fans support for the team that makes it possible for him to do what he loves. As for Santo, he hated many fans during his time as a player and he hated them. Santo has always been too grouchy, too clueless and too Cub-centered to realize that all fans who support the game are the ones that make the baseball business possible and not just Cub fans.


I agree that Brickhouse was terrible and, you're right, some Cub fans couldn't take his schtick but I knew many Cub fans who either liked him outright or found his nonsense endearing. Frankly, I can't believe that Brickhouse is in the Hall of Fame. Harrelson, I think, has long been the superior announcer. I know that he does rub some people the wrong way but he is skilled at his craft and colorful. In today's business world, the colorful announcers seem a thing of the past. I suspect that we'll miss them when they are gone.

Good call on Kup as an announcer -- those Bear broadcats with Kup and Brickhouse were so bad, they were almost comical. Remember Kup's catch phrase? "That's right, Jack!" I don't remember too much analysis but I remember Kup saying that repeatedly.

Harry and Jimmy were almost certainly the best announcing duo in my lifetime, decades ahead of their contemporaries in providing candor, information and entertainment. And you're right -- when Harry migrated to the North Side, he understood who his employers in the Tribune were and knew that he to be zip up any criticism. So, Harry sold out a little bit and took the security and vast wealth that the Cubs and WGN provided him. It was sad to watch Harry as a shell of his former self during that Cub run.

With regard to Farmer, would you want him to play-by-play (with Stone as the color analyst) on tv?

hawkjt
08-27-2010, 01:56 AM
Horses for courses,I guess. I find Farmer to be just bad,and weird, which DJ can also slip into ...the weirdness of that duo has to be close to a league high.

I flipped to the MLB Network tonite to check on the Twins/ Rangers game a few times and caught the color guy saying in the 5th inning
'' I have now counted at least 6 pitches that Cliff Lee got a bad call on, and the ump should know a guy who has only walked 11 guys all year should get those close pitches''

Everyone bitches about the umps,not just Hawk.

Lip Man 1
08-27-2010, 11:50 AM
Pete:

"Superstation" WGN was broadcasting Sox games in 1981. I got them when I was in Lexington, Kentucky.

I think they started showing their signal across the nation in 1980.

Lip

Bob Roarman
08-27-2010, 02:34 PM
I flipped to the MLB Network tonite to check on the Twins/ Rangers game a few times and caught the color guy saying in the 5th inning
'' I have now counted at least 6 pitches that Cliff Lee got a bad call on, and the ump should know a guy who has only walked 11 guys all year should get those close pitches''

Everyone bitches about the umps,not just Hawk.

It's irrelevant. If he does it as much as the Hawk does and to the extent that he does, then he's just as bad and unprofessional. It doesn't "add" anything to the reasoning of why to keep Hawk around. An argument of "Look see that dumb ass is being unprofessional too! That means it's OK!" isn't a very good one.

hawkjt
08-27-2010, 02:44 PM
It's irrelevant. If he does it as much as the Hawk does and to the extent that he does, then he's just as bad and unprofessional. It doesn't "add" anything to the reasoning of why to keep Hawk around. An argument of "Look see that dumb ass is being unprofessional too! That means it's OK!" isn't a very good one.

You win. Cloak yourself in purity and drive yourself nuts watching your favorite team. Enjoy. Go Sox!

Milw
08-28-2010, 04:57 PM
I personally know far more White Sox fans who see Hawk as a complete and utter joke as opposed to something that is beneficial for the franchise. I think as time goes by more and more people are turning on Hawk and it won't be too long until his detractors far outnumber his supporters. He may have been a decent announcer in the past but to me he's sabotaging that by continuing on as he is.
I know many, many, many Sox fans. Quite literally every one of them is a huge Hawk supporter.

I get why people who dislike him dislike him. I do. But this idea that there's a pitchforked mob of Sox fans demanding his head is just plain ridiculous.

DrCrawdad
08-28-2010, 05:36 PM
I know many, many, many Sox fans. Quite literally every one of them is a huge Hawk supporter.

I get why people who dislike him dislike him. I do. But this idea that there's a pitchforked mob of Sox fans demanding his head is just plain ridiculous.

I agree. I can understand why Sox and non-Sox fans do not like Hawk. But for someone here at White Sox Interactive (in this discussion) to call Hawk a "douchebag" while in the same breath blowing kisses to Santo, that's beyond despicable. Can you say :dtroll:?