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Noneck
08-23-2010, 04:16 PM
Alex Rios is the best White Sox everyday centerfielder since

Lip Man 1
08-23-2010, 04:20 PM
Lance Johnson...before that Chet Lemon...before that Ken Berry...before that Jim Landis.

Lip

LoveYourSuit
08-23-2010, 04:23 PM
Alex Rios is the best White Sox everyday centerfielder since

Brian Anderson, no joke.

kittle42
08-23-2010, 04:25 PM
Brian Anderson, no joke.

Agreed. Say what you will about Anderson, and I have said a lot, he's the easy answer here.

Pablo_Honey
08-23-2010, 04:29 PM
Agreed. Say what you will about Anderson, and I have said a lot, he's the easy answer here.
:rowand
"Ahem, I think you are forgetting someone."

Nah, just kidding. Anderson was our last good defensive CF'er. Sadly that's all he really was.

DumpJerry
08-23-2010, 04:37 PM
Brian Anderson, no joke.

:rowand
"Ahem, I think you are forgetting someone."

Nah, just kidding. Anderson was our last good defensive CF'er. Sadly that's all he really was.
Easily Anderson. Brian's problem was hitting. Even if Rowand came after Anderson, Anderson would still get it since Rowand was a ****ty overrated fielder.

Of course, the poll asks "since" not "ever." That could produce a different result since we don't have to go too far back to find someone who could be at least as good as Rios with the leather.

Noneck
08-23-2010, 04:40 PM
I posted this because I really dont know the answer. I cant say Johnson is better than Rios, Lemon probably because he had more ground to cover but Rios will never have that opportunity, Berry and Landis definitely were better. So I have to vote Berry.

slavko
08-23-2010, 04:43 PM
Not as good as BA, definitely not as good as Mike C.

TheOldRoman
08-23-2010, 04:46 PM
It's good to see this board went from overrating Rowand defensively to drastically underrating him. In his prime Rowand was a very good defender. He wasn't elite, but calling him a ****y defender is ridiculous.

Not as good as BA, definitely not as good as Mike C.I don't remember Cameron, but I would argue Rios is at least as good as Anderson.

DumpJerry
08-23-2010, 05:00 PM
It's good to see this board went from overrating Rowand defensively to drastically underrating him. In his prime Rowand was a very good defender. He wasn't elite, but calling him a ****y defender is ridiculous.
You're right. Consistently taking bad routes and then overcompensating with a diving catch is MLB top-shelf play. My bad.

LITTLE NELL
08-23-2010, 05:13 PM
Lance Johnson...before that Chet Lemon...before that Ken Berry...before that Jim Landis.

Lip

We agree and Landis is the best of them all.

AlexRios51
08-23-2010, 05:29 PM
I was just thinking yesterday, he could possibly win a Gold Glove with the exception of Adam Jones.

It's Dankerific
08-23-2010, 05:35 PM
This is definitely another BA thread =)

Pablo_Honey
08-23-2010, 05:37 PM
This is definitely another BA thread =)
I was wondering how long it'd take you to post in this thread :tongue:

LoveYourSuit
08-23-2010, 05:39 PM
Agreed. Say what you will about Anderson, and I have said a lot, he's the easy answer here.

And I would say Anderson is better than Rios, we are talking about the glove here.

Too bad the guy couldn't hit a lick because he can go get it out there as good as any IMO.

Domeshot17
08-23-2010, 05:45 PM
Rios >>>>>>>>>> Anderson as an overall player (although if Anderson pans as a pitcher he might make up a little ground:D:)

Anderson over Rios in a coinflip in CF. Both are very very good.

Anderson over all of the MLB in both Tattoo'd awesomeness and potential :bandance:

Noneck
08-23-2010, 05:50 PM
This is definitely another BA thread =)

No, Not in any way shape or form. He is taken out of poll because he was not a regular centerfielder. I hope this thread wont be hijacked because of him.

WhiteSox5187
08-23-2010, 05:53 PM
In terms of defense alone it is since Anderson, but Rios might be the best all around CF in my lifetime and I was born in '87.

voodoochile
08-23-2010, 06:00 PM
I gotta be honest, he's the best since I've been a Sox fan.

OneDog was great, but Alex has a much better arm.

Cameron was close probably from an all around defensive perspective.

Singleton had better range than any of them that I can recall.

Anderson isn't any better than Rios at all, IMO and as others have pointed out he wasn't a full timer nor did he start enough games to be in the discussion.

Right now I'd take Alex over any CF for the Sox I have seen play, but I admit it's hard to separate his offensive contributions from that decision. Defensively he doesn't give up anything to any of these guys and will be in the discussion for best CF ever for the Sox when he leaves town.

JB98
08-23-2010, 06:04 PM
Cameron. He was better than Rios, but Alex is better than all the others we've had since.

Bucky F. Dent
08-23-2010, 11:36 PM
This is definitely another BA thread =)


That was my thought - an underhanded effort to revive the BA love and/or Rowandmania.

doublem23
08-23-2010, 11:39 PM
Not as good as BA, definitely not as good as Mike C.

Cameron turned into a great CF after we dealt him to Cincinnati, but, IIRC, he was still pretty raw while he was here.

Noneck
08-23-2010, 11:43 PM
Cameron turned into a great CF after we dealt him to Cincinnati, but, IIRC, he was still pretty raw while he was here.

Thats how I remember him also but with everyone voting for him maybe I wasn't watching him close enough.

Scottiehaswheels
08-23-2010, 11:54 PM
Where's the Mackowiak option?

Coops4Aces
08-24-2010, 12:05 AM
134 games in 2006 isn't a regular? BA is the easy and correct answer.

Oh, and to say that Aaron Rowand is a better centerfielder than Rios is laughable. I thought people around here had better baseball knowledge than that.

Rdy2PlayBall
08-24-2010, 12:06 AM
Where is the Dewayne Wise option?

voodoochile
08-24-2010, 01:19 AM
134 games in 2006 isn't a regular? BA is the easy and correct answer.

Oh, and to say that Aaron Rowand is a better centerfielder than Rios is laughable. I thought people around here had better baseball knowledge than that.

BA only had 365 AB that year. He was often a late inning defensive replacement. He was at most a platoon that season and again, it was the only year he got substantial playing time. From my perspective that removes him from the discussion.

He was an excellent defensive player no question. Probably on par with Rios, but he just doesn't have the body of work to make him a viable choice, at least, IMO...

voodoochile
08-24-2010, 01:22 AM
Where is the Dewayne Wise option?

You know, people greatly undervalued his defense. He was a very solid defensive player in his time here. He was up against the myth of BA and couldn't win no matter what he did. I remember when he made "the catch" and some fan came here ranting about how he bobbled it on purpose so he could hotdog.

PeteWard
08-24-2010, 01:38 AM
Hey!

Foulke You
08-24-2010, 01:38 AM
Where is the Dewayne Wise option?
I was looking for the Rob Mackowiak option. :tongue:

For those that remember the 1996 White Sox, Darren Lewis should be on this list too. He wasn't much on offense but he could seriously track down fly balls. Also, as long as we're talking CF glove men, does anyone remember Brian Simmons? He had some serious defense too in the late 90s but injuries severely shortened what could have been a promising career.

Rohan
08-24-2010, 09:34 AM
Brian Anderson was one of the best defensive center fielders in baseball. And he'll soon be the best defensive pitcher in baseball. :bandance:

Coops4Aces
08-24-2010, 11:23 AM
You know, people greatly undervalued his defense. He was a very solid defensive player in his time here. He was up against the myth of BA and couldn't win no matter what he did. I remember when he made "the catch" and some fan came here ranting about how he bobbled it on purpose so he could hotdog.

That was me and I still strongly believe so. Words can't describe how much I hate that guy.

Rdy2PlayBall
08-24-2010, 11:32 AM
That was me and I still strongly believe so. Words can't describe how much I hate that guy.I don't remember what team got him, but in the offseason when that was finalized, the reports (like espn for example) were saying something about "solid defense" and such. I think we were just so spoiled with BA love that we didn't notice Wise was never really considered a bad fielder.

That catch made his career though... at least for us, since the baseball gods give out perfect games like nothing now.

doublem23
08-24-2010, 12:06 PM
You know, people greatly undervalued his defense. He was a very solid defensive player in his time here. He was up against the myth of BA and couldn't win no matter what he did. I remember when he made "the catch" and some fan came here ranting about how he bobbled it on purpose so he could hotdog.

Yeah, I remember when someone first posted that. That was one of the most ludicriously over-the-top things ever posted on these boards.

Rdy2PlayBall
08-24-2010, 12:13 PM
Yeah, I remember when someone first posted that. That was one of the most ludicriously over-the-top things ever posted on these boards.Really?? WSI must not be in that bad of shape then.

wilburaga
08-24-2010, 12:23 PM
It's the Lemon.

doublem23
08-24-2010, 12:44 PM
Really?? WSI must not be in that bad of shape then.

We're really not in any sort of bad shape, anyway, with 14,000+ members and pushing 3 million posts, this is the largest single-team oriented fansite in the world.

And yes, suggesting someone bobbled a catch on purpose to hot dog in the 9th inning of a perfect game is honestly one of the dumbest baseball-related opinions you could formulate.

Coops4Aces
08-24-2010, 12:46 PM
We're really not in any sort of bad shape, anyway, with 14,000+ members and pushing 3 million posts, this is the largest single-team oriented fansite in the world.

And yes, suggesting someone bobbled a catch on purpose to hot dog in the 9th inning of a perfect game is honestly one of the dumbest baseball-related opinions you could formulate.

Thanks. :smile:

Rdy2PlayBall
08-24-2010, 12:54 PM
We're really not in any sort of bad shape, anyway, with 14,000+ members and pushing 3 million posts, this is the largest single-team oriented fansite in the world.

And yes, suggesting someone bobbled a catch on purpose to hot dog in the 9th inning of a perfect game is honestly one of the dumbest baseball-related opinions you could formulate.No need to get defensive over WSI man... I was kidding.
I've read many more dumb baseball opinions, if that's a highlight of the worst ever, then WSI can't be that bad...

russ99
08-24-2010, 12:55 PM
I have to go with Lance Johnson. Best range in the outfield of any player I've seen in a Sox uniform (but I didn't see Landis)

Rios has a better arm than Lance, and makes a lot of plays other guys don't but didn't track down balls effortlessly like one-dog did.

Anderson was above average, but I don't remember any plays where I thought he looked great, other than the last out in game 163. And he only had 7 assists, Rios is at 59 at three times the innings.

Rohan
08-24-2010, 02:03 PM
Thanks. :smile:

I'm pretty sure I am the poster he was talking about. I don't remember seeing your post, but i'm glad someone agrees with me. I'm not going to talk about "the catch" because the whole play still sort of bugs me.

But as long as we're on the topic of center fielders over dramatizing plays, it should be mentioned that Anderson too over dramatized one or two catches in his time. Namely the last catch of the black out game in 2008. He even admitted in one of his MLB blogs that he timed the dive and dramatized it a little bit. I didn't mind as much when he did it because not as much was on the line and he pretty much had the play the whole time.

Coops4Aces
08-24-2010, 02:22 PM
I'm pretty sure I am the poster he was talking about. I don't remember seeing your post, but i'm glad someone agrees with me. I'm not going to talk about "the catch" because the whole play still sort of bugs me.

But as long as we're on the topic of center fielders over dramatizing plays, it should be mentioned that Anderson too over dramatized one or two catches in his time. Namely the last catch of the black out game in 2008. He even admitted in one of his MLB blogs that he timed the dive and dramatized it a little bit. I didn't mind as much when he did it because not as much was on the line and he pretty much had the play the whole time.

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=2521713&postcount=10

Happy to see I'm not the only one.

Rohan
08-24-2010, 02:34 PM
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=2521713&postcount=10

Happy to see I'm not the only one.

Mine's on page 9 of the Road House. I'm not going to post a link to it because that would pretty much be the same as opening the can of worms again. But yeah, I was happy for Buehrle and upset with Wise... I'm grateful he made the catch.

I do think that Brian Anderson should be an option on this poll.

ghostface36
08-24-2010, 02:36 PM
whats the infatuation with brian anderson here?
do people here ride for josh fields too? or Joe Borchard

Rohan
08-24-2010, 02:42 PM
whats the infatuation with brian anderson here?
do people here ride for josh fields too? or Joe Borchard

This thread does not show signs of any infatuation. I think that you could ask nearly any baseball analyst during Anderson's tenure as a center fielder and they'll tell you that he's one of the best defensive center fielders to play in the last five years.

delben91
08-24-2010, 02:45 PM
That was me and I still strongly believe so. Words can't describe how much I hate that guy.

Did he run over your dog or something? I'm ok with hating his play, but hating the person? What purpose does that serve?

kufram
08-24-2010, 03:37 PM
I'm pretty sure I am the poster he was talking about. I don't remember seeing your post, but i'm glad someone agrees with me. I'm not going to talk about "the catch" because the whole play still sort of bugs me.

But as long as we're on the topic of center fielders over dramatizing plays, it should be mentioned that Anderson too over dramatized one or two catches in his time. Namely the last catch of the black out game in 2008. He even admitted in one of his MLB blogs that he timed the dive and dramatized it a little bit. I didn't mind as much when he did it because not as much was on the line and he pretty much had the play the whole time.

I thought I was the only one who saw BA make more of that play than necessary. He was a good CF, no doubt, but i prefer a guy who makes the hard plays look easy to the guy that makes the easy plays look hard. BA was a bit of a poser. Rios makes the play. Wise was ridiculed, but very good defensively. Never mind that a perfect game was on the line, that catch was perfect.

Do you notice that these days if a lot of outfielders that catch the ball anywhere on the warning track manage to take enough steps to reach the wall and look like they ran into it?

voodoochile
08-24-2010, 04:38 PM
I thought I was the only one who saw BA make more of that play than necessary. He was a good CF, no doubt, but i prefer a guy who makes the hard plays look easy to the guy that makes the easy plays look hard. BA was a bit of a poser. Rios makes the play. Wise was ridiculed, but very good defensively. Never mind that a perfect game was on the line, that catch was perfect.

Do you notice that these days if a lot of outfielders that catch the ball anywhere on the warning track manage to take enough steps to reach the wall and look like they ran into it?

Maggs used to regularly run around flyballs so he could do that slide catch he was good at. It was comical. The final out of 163 was a solid but unspectacular play that any decent CF should have made. The fact it was BA who had been the subject of so much heated debate and the emotional impact of it being a catch that assured the playoffs for the Sox is what makes it stand out - much the way Wise's catch will always be remembered because it was so important, not because he robbed a HR - which happens a time or two a week in MLB as a whole.

Yes, I've been noticing OF doing what you mention. I've even seen them reach out to touch the wall with their hand sort of like that small dab of extended peanut butter which touches the top of the jar to show the jar is full. It's silly...

ghostface36
08-24-2010, 04:41 PM
This thread does not show signs of any infatuation. I think that you could ask nearly any baseball analyst during Anderson's tenure as a center fielder and they'll tell you that he's one of the best defensive center fielders to play in the last five years.
i know he's a very very good defensive player
i was referring to the subject of BA in general

kufram
08-24-2010, 05:11 PM
Maggs used to regularly run around flyballs so he could do that slide catch he was good at. It was comical. The final out of 163 was a solid but unspectacular play that any decent CF should have made. The fact it was BA who had been the subject of so much heated debate and the emotional impact of it being a catch that assured the playoffs for the Sox is what makes it stand out - much the way Wise's catch will always be remembered because it was so important, not because he robbed a HR - which happens a time or two a week in MLB as a whole.

Yes, I've been noticing OF doing what you mention. I've even seen them reach out to touch the wall with their hand sort of like that small dab of extended peanut butter which touches the top of the jar to show the jar is full. It's silly...

It wasn't Wise's actual catch itself that impressed me the most. It was his read off the bat and his perfect route to the ball. One wrong step and he couldn't have been there to make the catch.

Coops4Aces
08-24-2010, 06:29 PM
Did he run over your dog or something? I'm ok with hating his play, but hating the person? What purpose does that serve?

Yes I hate him as a person. I shouldn't, but I do.

SoxNation05
08-24-2010, 06:40 PM
I am not even a BA fanboy but this thread is pointless.

Daver
08-24-2010, 07:15 PM
Yes, I've been noticing OF doing what you mention. I've even seen them reach out to touch the wall with their hand sort of like that small dab of extended peanut butter which touches the top of the jar to show the jar is full. It's silly...

Torrii Hunter is the worst culprit, and may be a large reason behind the trend.

mcsoxfan
08-25-2010, 12:22 AM
This is truly a generational question.
For pure defensive ability, Ken Berry beats all of them.

kevingrt
08-25-2010, 08:03 AM
I probably could search the thread for this answer but are we talking all around CF or defensive CF?

Noneck
08-25-2010, 09:29 AM
I probably could search the thread for this answer but are we talking all around CF or defensive CF?


The thread title will answer your question.

russ99
08-25-2010, 09:38 AM
BA only had 365 AB that year. He was often a late inning defensive replacement. He was at most a platoon that season and again, it was the only year he got substantial playing time. From my perspective that removes him from the discussion.


This is revisionist history that the BA crowd loves to use, to assume he didn't get a fair chance.

In 2006, Ozzie played him full time for 2 and a half months, and yanked him when it was obvious he was hurting the team with his bat, and his attitude.

He platooned in 2007.

Coops4Aces
08-25-2010, 10:31 AM
This is revisionist history that the BA crowd loves to use, to assume he didn't get a fair chance.

In 2006, Ozzie played him full time for 2 and a half months, and yanked him when it was obvious he was hurting the team with his bat, and his attitude.

He platooned in 2007.

So was he a regular in your opinion?

voodoochile
08-25-2010, 12:35 PM
So was he a regular in your opinion?

Sure, for 3 months, but for me that's just not a big enough body of work to be included in this discussion.

Don't get me wrong, I loved his glove, but the guy got ~600 PA with the Sox spread out over 4 seasons. He was a defensive specialist basically when he was here and spent long periods of time as the 25th man on the bench.

Should Andruw Jones be included in this discussion too? How about every other defensive replacement CF the Sox have had over the last 100 years...

KenBerryGrab
08-25-2010, 01:59 PM
Chet Lemon was solid but unspectacular. One Dog could go get 'em but couldn't throw. Cameron was very, very good. Rowand is overrated because he ran into walls.

None of them was as good as Ken Berry.

Noneck
08-25-2010, 02:45 PM
Chet Lemon was solid but unspectacular. One Dog could go get 'em but couldn't throw. Cameron was very, very good. Rowand is overrated because he ran into walls.

None of them was as good as Ken Berry.

But is Rios better than all except Berry?

KenBerryGrab
08-25-2010, 03:51 PM
But is Rios better than all except Berry?

I'd say he's the best since KB, yep!

Nellie_Fox
08-25-2010, 03:59 PM
But is Rios better than all except Berry?I'd say Landis was also better defensively.

Noneck
08-25-2010, 04:31 PM
I'd say Landis was also better defensively.

And who do you think was the best defensive regular CFer prior to Rios? Not which ones are better than him.

Nellie_Fox
08-25-2010, 04:36 PM
And who do you think was the best defensive regular CFer prior to Rios? Not which ones are better than him.The question "Rios best since..." is not the same as "best before Rios." I think Landis was the best in my lifetime, but to answer the first you only have to name the most recent to be better than Rios, and I don't consider myself enough of a talent evaluator to answer that one.

Noneck
08-25-2010, 04:43 PM
The question "Rios best since..." is not the same as "best before Rios." I think Landis was the best in my lifetime, but to answer the first you only have to name the most recent to be better than Rios, and I don't consider myself enough of a talent evaluator to answer that one.

I value your opinion, Can you tell me who you think were better than Rios then?

fram40
08-25-2010, 11:53 PM
I have to go with Lance Johnson. Best range in the outfield of any player I've seen in a Sox uniform (but I didn't see Landis)

Rios has a better arm than Lance, and makes a lot of plays other guys don't but didn't track down balls effortlessly like one-dog did.



I have to agree with Russ here. Lance covered a lot of ground and took away a few home runs. But he couldn't throw, so he was never in the discussions of great defensive left fielders.

I only vaguely remember Ken Berry taking away home runs so I cannot compare. But I think Lance is the best I can remember - he covers more ground than Alex and Lance is much better with the wall. But Alex has a much better arm/

BainesHOF
08-26-2010, 12:48 AM
This is a great topic for discussion that I've bounced around in my head, but I'm surprised by many of the posts here. They're just out of touch with reality. Rowand isn't close to Rios. Anderson was very good, but he made dumb throws on a semi-regular basis and seldom made a great throw. Johnson had a ridiculously bad arm.

Law sure could chase down some balls, but, like Johnson, didn't have a good arm. Cameron, as one poster pointed out, was raw when he was with us. He made plenty of mistakes.

The first guy that belongs in the discussion is Lemon. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe he still holds the league record for most putouts by a center fielder in a season. He had the benefit in that regard of having a wide area to patrol, but you don't track down the number of balls that he did without being incredibly talented. He wasn't afraid of a wall, either. Lemon had a strong arm, but regularly threw wildly.

Lemon was perhaps more exciting to watch with how he flew around the field, but Rios was smoother and more efficient. Lemon's arm was stronger, but Rios' is more accurate.

I go back only to the days of Dick Allen, but I've heard and read so many great things about the defensive prowess of Berry and Landis.

ode to veeck
08-26-2010, 09:48 AM
This is definitely another BA thread =)

I thought it was a eulogize Aaron Rowalnd bad routes and all herioc catches agains teh YankMes thread

ode to veeck
08-26-2010, 09:51 AM
This is a great topic for discussion that I've bounced around in my head, but I'm surprised by many of the posts here. They're just out of touch with reality. Rowand isn't close to Rios. Anderson was very good, but he made dumb throws on a semi-regular basis and seldom made a great throw. Johnson had a ridiculously bad arm.

Law sure could chase down some balls, but, like Johnson, didn't have a good arm. Cameron, as one poster pointed out, was raw when he was with us. He made plenty of mistakes.

The first guy that belongs in the discussion is Lemon. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe he still holds the league record for most putouts by a center fielder in a season. He had the benefit in that regard of having a wide area to patrol, but you don't track down the number of balls that he did without being incredibly talented. He wasn't afraid of a wall, either. Lemon had a strong arm, but regularly threw wildly.

Lemon was perhaps more exciting to watch with how he flew around the field, but Rios was smoother and more efficient. Lemon's arm was stronger, but Rios' is more accurate.

I go back only to the days of Dick Allen, but I've heard and read so many great things about the defensive prowess of Berry and Landis.

With the bullpens in their foul territory location and the old cinderbock wall in front of the shower reading 440 in dead center, Chet would be climbing the corners to steal flyballs in every nook and cranny in the largest CF of his day (and many other days since), simply an animal in CF

ode to veeck
08-26-2010, 09:53 AM
Brian Anderson was one of the best defensive center fielders in baseball. And he'll soon be the best defensive pitcher in baseball. :bandance:

CF yes, but his very best putouts as pitcher won't even make the Mark Buhrle top 10 list.

ode to veeck
08-26-2010, 09:55 AM
We're really not in any sort of bad shape, anyway, with 14,000+ members and pushing 3 million posts, this is the largest single-team oriented fansite in the world.

And yes, suggesting someone bobbled a catch on purpose to hot dog in the 9th inning of a perfect game is honestly one of the dumbest baseball-related opinions you could formulate.


with the best bad routes in nonsensical threads on the planet

Bill Naharodny
08-26-2010, 10:46 PM
To my recollection, Chet Lemon was adequate in center -- made a lot of spectacular diving catches, but often as a result of poor jumps.

Noneck
08-26-2010, 11:21 PM
To my recollection, Chet Lemon was adequate in center -- made a lot of spectacular diving catches, but often as a result of poor jumps.


He also drove Piersall crazy with his one hand catches.

Railsplitter
08-27-2010, 10:20 AM
One Dog still the best Sox CF I've seen.