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34rancher
08-18-2010, 11:12 AM
Anyone want to bet that gardenhire has his pitcher hit us in the first inning so that a warning is issued before we can retaliate for last night? I think it's brilliant as it gets in our head, protects his team, and makes us look like bigger pansies than we already are.

Coops4Aces
08-18-2010, 11:21 AM
No warning will be issued if they hit us

getonbckthr
08-18-2010, 11:27 AM
I hope a flyball is hit with AJ standing on 3rd.

Coops4Aces
08-18-2010, 11:34 AM
I hope a flyball is hit with AJ standing on 3rd.
:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

thedudeabides
08-18-2010, 11:36 AM
I would expect warnings issued prior to the game. It's why retaliation is very difficult in todays game. If that's the case I hope Liriano plunks one of our guys and gets tossed. If not, I hope Carlos, AJ, or Andruw have a close play at the plate tonight. And I expect the Sox to be going in hard at second the rest of the series.

To me putting one in Mauer or Youngs back accomplishes very little, if anything. If there are warnings issued, it's just downright stupid.

Rocky Soprano
08-18-2010, 11:40 AM
I would expect warnings issued prior to the game. It's why retaliation is very difficult in todays game. If that's the case I hope Liriano plunks one of our guys and gets tossed. If not, I hope Carlos, AJ, or Andruw have a close play at the plate tonight. And I expect the Sox to be going in hard at secondhe rest of the series.

To me putting one in Mauer or Youngs back accomplishes very little, if anything. If there are warnings issued, it's just downright stupid.

And doing nothing accomplishes what?
If warnings were issued prior to the game, then you don't have your start pitcher do it but as soon as you go into the pen you do.

The best way to get back at them is to win but I don't see anything wrong with putting one if Young's back. If anything it tells them that the Sox are not going to put up with that crap.

KMcMahon817
08-18-2010, 11:44 AM
Delmon has a screw lose, and he always has. He did throw a bat at an umpire in the minor leagues...

I really hope the Sox plunk him today. And honestly, I wouldn't be totally shocked if he threw a hissy fit over it. Tonight's game will be entertaining.

thedudeabides
08-18-2010, 11:49 AM
And doing nothing accomplishes what?
If warnings were issued prior to the game, then you don't have your start pitcher do it but as soon as you go into the pen you do.

The best way to get back at them is to win but I don't see anything wrong with putting one if Young's back. If anything it tells them that the Sox are not going to put up with that crap.

If its a tight game, giving them a free runner is a bad idea. If its not close or there is a base open, go for it.

These guys walk up to the plate with padding everywhere. Taking a curveball of the butt or back proves nothing to me, especially if you have to wait until the 7th or 8th. These umps today have suck quick triggers, it doesn't seem worth the risk. I'd rather see it taken care of on the bases, and more importantly on the scoreboard.

TDog
08-18-2010, 11:52 AM
No warning will be issued if they hit us

Warnings don't have to be issued. If you hit a batter with your first pitch in the first inning and the umpire deems it intentional, he can eject you. The name of the pitcher and umpire escape me, but earlier this year, a pitcher was ejected in the first inning, perhaps with his first hitter, despite no warnings being issued. The warning business just makes it easier for umpires to do their jobs.

I didn't see the play everyone is talking about, but if the Twins are consistently intentionally going after White Sox players to intimidate them, I wouldn't have any problem with the White Sox inflicting a season-ending, even a career ending injury to Joe Mauer. That would certainly put them in their place. I certainly am not inclined to feel bad for Justin Morneau.

Of course, if major league baseball is interested in not seeing this get ugly, and the play in question Tuesday night was outside the boundaries and consistent with Twins intimidation, as some here believe, baseball would suspend Young from the rest of the games against the White Sox this season. There would be an appeal that makes that impractical, but perhaps baseball needs to give players choices, such as a monthlong suspension or a suspension against one specific team.

Assuming that there is really a pattern of systematic intimidation going on, it won't end until baseball does something drastic or until something ugly happens.

getonbckthr
08-18-2010, 11:58 AM
I want Mauer to get run over with his ACL tearing in the process. I never wish serious injury to a player but lessons need to be learned up North.

Coops4Aces
08-18-2010, 11:58 AM
Warnings don't have to be issued. If you hit a batter with your first pitch in the first inning and the umpire deems it intentional, he can eject you. The name of the pitcher and umpire escape me, but earlier this year, a pitcher was ejected in the first inning, perhaps with his first hitter, despite no warnings being issued. The warning business just makes it easier for umpires to do their jobs.

I didn't see the play everyone is talking about, but if the Twins are consistently intentionally going after White Sox players to intimidate them, I wouldn't have any problem with the White Sox inflicting a season-ending, even a career ending injury to Joe Mauer. That would certainly put them in their place. I certainly am not inclined to feel bad for Justin Morneau.

Of course, if major league baseball is interested in not seeing this get ugly, and the play in question Tuesday night was outside the boundaries and consistent with Twins intimidation, as some here believe, baseball would suspend Young from the rest of the games against the White Sox this season. There would be an appeal that makes that impractical, but perhaps baseball needs to give players choices, such as a monthlong suspension or a suspension against one specific team.

Assuming that there is really a pattern of systematic intimidation going on, it won't end until baseball does something drastic or until something ugly happens.

:rolleyes: Next time watch the play first. Career ending injury to Mauer? Suspend Young from Twins vs Sox games? Huh?

DSpivack
08-18-2010, 12:01 PM
Warnings don't have to be issued. If you hit a batter with your first pitch in the first inning and the umpire deems it intentional, he can eject you. The name of the pitcher and umpire escape me, but earlier this year, a pitcher was ejected in the first inning, perhaps with his first hitter, despite no warnings being issued. The warning business just makes it easier for umpires to do their jobs.

I didn't see the play everyone is talking about, but if the Twins are consistently intentionally going after White Sox players to intimidate them, I wouldn't have any problem with the White Sox inflicting a season-ending, even a career ending injury to Joe Mauer. That would certainly put them in their place. I certainly am not inclined to feel bad for Justin Morneau.

Of course, if major league baseball is interested in not seeing this get ugly, and the play in question Tuesday night was outside the boundaries and consistent with Twins intimidation, as some here believe, baseball would suspend Young from the rest of the games against the White Sox this season. There would be an appeal that makes that impractical, but perhaps baseball needs to give players choices, such as a monthlong suspension or a suspension against one specific team.

Assuming that there is really a pattern of systematic intimidation going on, it won't end until baseball does something drastic or until something ugly happens.

I remember Buehrle getting ejected without warning a couple years ago, that ended his string of getting into the 6th inning in his starts.

dwitt76
08-18-2010, 12:01 PM
Wasn't he also the same guy who started yelling at his own pitcher last year when he got plunked by a Detroit pitcher.

hawkjt
08-18-2010, 12:04 PM
The Twins hit Carlos twice last week,and at least 3 other Sox,with no retaliation by the Sox. Youngs swerve into the infield to try to take out AJ last nite was extremely dirty. Hunter putting Burke in the hospital using the same approach a few years ago went unanswered.
Padilla's hitting AJ a couple of years ago and yelling at him went unanswered.

Enough. I know it is meatballish,but I want my lb of flesh.
I hate to risk Gavin,tho,so I think just wait til Pena comes in,maybe...and throw right at Youngs head. I think he will charge the mound,and that will result in a long overdue brawl.

I know...stupid,right? Gotta stand up Sox. Would love to see Pena and AJ jump on a charging Young and kick the crap outta him...and let Mauer get hit also,please. Kubel,and Cudyar for good measure. Keep hitting them til they come out and get you.

chisox12
08-18-2010, 12:22 PM
The Twins hit Carlos twice last week,and at least 3 other Sox,with no retaliation by the Sox. Youngs swerve into the infield to try to take out AJ last nite was extremely dirty. Hunter putting Burke in the hospital using the same approach a few years ago went unanswered.
Padilla's hitting AJ a couple of years ago and yelling at him went unanswered.

Enough. I know it is meatballish,but I want my lb of flesh.
I hate to risk Gavin,tho,so I think just wait til Pena comes in,maybe...and throw right at Youngs head. I think he will charge the mound,and that will result in a long overdue brawl.

I know...stupid,right? Gotta stand up Sox. Would love to see Pena and AJ jump on a charging Young and kick the crap outta him...and let Mauer get hit also,please. Kubel,and Cudyar for good measure. Keep hitting them til they come out and get you.



It is time to stand up and stop dealing with this bull**** from the Twins. Obviously we can't be doing anything if it's a tight game. But if the situation presents itself, Mauer or Young should get one right in the ribs.

Bob Roarman
08-18-2010, 12:26 PM
The Twins hit Carlos twice last week,and at least 3 other Sox,with no retaliation by the Sox. Youngs swerve into the infield to try to take out AJ last nite was extremely dirty. Hunter putting Burke in the hospital using the same approach a few years ago went unanswered.
Padilla's hitting AJ a couple of years ago and yelling at him went unanswered.

Enough. I know it is meatballish,but I want my lb of flesh.
I hate to risk Gavin,tho,so I think just wait til Pena comes in,maybe...and throw right at Youngs head. I think he will charge the mound,and that will result in a long overdue brawl.

I know...stupid,right? Gotta stand up Sox. Would love to see Pena and AJ jump on a charging Young and kick the crap outta him...and let Mauer get hit also,please. Kubel,and Cudyar for good measure. Keep hitting them til they come out and get you.

You've given up the game of baseball if you go this route. I'm telling you that right now, if that's the route you want them to take, might as well call it a season. Because you don't care about winning games as long as you "prove something". Which is nothing.

Lyle Mouton
08-18-2010, 12:31 PM
Again, lots of tough guys in here. Throwing at heads? Ending careers? Really?

Yes, I know the game used to be this way. Black people couldn't play for a time, and there was no such thing as free agency.

The game has gotten better. Not hitting guys in the temple with a 90+ MPH fastball is part of that positive evolution.

twentywontowin
08-18-2010, 12:31 PM
You've given up the game of baseball if you go this route. I'm telling you that right now, if that's the route you want them to take, might as well call it a season. Because you don't care about winning games as long as you "prove something". Which is nothing.

If anything, it could also be a turning point. Team comes together, we go on a tear.

I'm all for gunning one right at Young. Doesn't need to be a head shot, but he needs to know his **** won't be tolerated.

JC456
08-18-2010, 12:33 PM
[QUOTE=
The best way to get back at them is to win but I don't see anything wrong with putting one if Young's back. If anything it tells them that the Sox are not going to put up with that crap.[/QUOTE]

It's too late for that action and it only puts the Sox in a hole. I'd rather see a Twin taken out on a double play or coldcock if any Twin is standing on or near a bag!!

Then let them clear the benches and take a few swings! I know of no other team that deserves it more since the Tory Hunter incident several years ago along with the hit batters!

Harry Chappas
08-18-2010, 12:34 PM
Again, lots of tough guys in here. Throwing at heads? Ending careers? Really?

Yes, I know the game used to be this way. Black people couldn't play for a time, and there was no such thing as free agency.

The game has gotten better. Not hitting guys in the temple with a 90+ MPH fastball is part of that positive evolution.

I agree about the ending careers and endangering lives stuff, but someone needs to pay. You throw at them and you hope they charge. Then you beat the hell out of them - within reason. We need it like we needed it against the Tigers years ago (I still remember Maggs doing roundhouse kicks).

Bob Roarman
08-18-2010, 12:35 PM
You're talking about a different era of baseball. That **** doesn't work anymore. All they're doing is giving them an extra out. And seeing as the Sox really need every game against the Twins, I really don't understand the point of any of it. This is the same stupid, tired bull**** like Pinella has to get fired up for the Cubs to win games. Or how because he got kicked out of one game, ONE GAME, a few years ago, that spurned them to a division title. Really? That's what did it? A bench clearing brawl is what made the 2000 White Sox a decent team? What happend in 2005 for them to win the World Series? Must have been ****ing Blood Sport tournaments going on throughout that season. No. They hit homeruns and had great all around pitching. That's why they won.

JC456
08-18-2010, 12:36 PM
Again, lots of tough guys in here. Throwing at heads? Ending careers? Really?

Yes, I know the game used to be this way. Black people couldn't play for a time, and there was no such thing as free agency.

The game has gotten better. Not hitting guys in the temple with a 90+ MPH fastball is part of that positive evolution.

Yeah, let's just let them continue to do it to us with no response. I'd rather see the Sox win a comeback game and then go on a streak, but that doesn't seem very likely. But something needs to happen!

Lyle Mouton
08-18-2010, 12:37 PM
Yeah, let's just let them continue to do it to us with no response. I'd rather see the Sox win a comeback game and then go on a streak, but that doesn't seem very likely. But something needs to happen!
Hitting Delmon Young in the back with a fastball will not make second place any sweeter.

Nelfox02
08-18-2010, 12:42 PM
Then let them clear the benches and take a few swings! I know of no other team that deserves it more since the Tory Hunter incident several years ago along with the hit batters!

Correct me if I am wrong---but aftert the Torri hunter thing Ozzie basically called out the team and said it what was going on was bull**** and said something along the lines that Carlos Lee slid into second like his sister was covering the bag..........

I think the aftermath of that season, that game, was the end of the Carlos era here, we brought in Pods, then go on to cut ties with Mags and had a pretty big change in approach between 2004 and 2005. I wont lie to you, I was not all for some of the ideas we brought into play, but at least it was a change. Ended up working out better than I think anyone, Guillen and KW included, ever thought it would.

My concern now, 6 years later, is that we are not going to see what happened this season as catalyst for any kind of significant changes for 2011.....I hope I am wrong.

TDog
08-18-2010, 12:45 PM
:rolleyes: Next time watch the play first. Career ending injury to Mauer? Suspend Young from Twins vs Sox games? Huh?

Everything I wrote was conditional, given the worst that people are assuming. I specifically didn't demand Young be thrown at. I didn't need to watch the play to make conditional statements.

Suspending players against specific teams is done at the scholastic level for expediency, and baseball nip problems if they took a similar approach, although I don't know if the union agreement would allow it.

If the play made the White Sox players as angry as it made some of the fans here, it won't end with last night's game or the White Sox rolling over. It would end with someone getting hurt in a manner that falls outside the boundaries of hardball. And baseball should do something before it goes that far. Players get injured sneezing and celebrating home runs. Imagine what could happen in a serious brawl.

If the play was as bad as people here seem to believe, baseball should be proactive in seeing that nothing further happens.

I don't need to see the play to make such conditional statements.

sachin
08-18-2010, 12:47 PM
Again, lots of tough guys in here. Throwing at heads? Ending careers? Really?

Yes, I know the game used to be this way. Black people couldn't play for a time, and there was no such thing as free agency.


Piss off ...:rolleyes:

KenBerryGrab
08-18-2010, 12:48 PM
Hitting Delmon Young in the back with a fastball will not make second place any sweeter.

I think it would.

Lyle Mouton
08-18-2010, 12:54 PM
I think it would.
That's fair. That's just a mindset that I don't ascribe to. I'm not saying I'm better or on higher ground, it just won't do anything for me to see Young get a free base. I'd feel much better about it if we were ahead.

Piss off ...

Extreme example? Certainly, but there is a certain cretin-esque desire in this thread for a "pound of flesh" or something or other. It's very frightening.

Bob Roarman
08-18-2010, 12:55 PM
If it makes it sweeter for you, if that's the case, don't expect winning baseball. Don't expect playoff baseball and don't complain about it. Keep your standards where they are, low, and you'll be fine. But I can't do that, sorry.

getonbckthr
08-18-2010, 12:56 PM
That's fair. That's just a mindset that I don't ascribe to. I'm not saying I'm better or on higher ground, it just won't do anything for me to see Young get a free base. I'd feel much better about it if we were ahead.


Extreme example? Certainly, but there is a certain cretin-esque desire in this thread for a "pound of flesh" or something or other. It's very frightening.
Young delivered a running forearm to AJ's head. Punishment should be immediate and violent.

Lyle Mouton
08-18-2010, 12:57 PM
Young delivered a running forearm to AJ's head. Punishment should be immediate and violent.
Define: violent.

SoxSpeed22
08-18-2010, 12:59 PM
Nobody's talking about ending careers here. But if the Sox want to be taken seriously, they don't need to take that from yesterday. Everybody knows that was a cheap shot, so just plunking him should work.

TheOldRoman
08-18-2010, 01:01 PM
Extreme example? Certainly, but there is a certain cretin-esque desire in this thread for a "pound of flesh" or something or other. It's very frightening.Right. Cretin-esque becuase they don't agree with you. We should all be so civilized. As for your "Blacks didn't play then" red herring, you might want to look at the career of Bob Gibson.

Young went out of the basepath and launched his elbow/forearm into our catcher's head. The only two options are throw at his ribs and throw at his helmet.

34rancher
08-18-2010, 01:04 PM
Again, lots of tough guys in here. Throwing at heads? Ending careers? Really?

Yes, I know the game used to be this way. Black people couldn't play for a time, and there was no such thing as free agency.

The game has gotten better. Not hitting guys in the temple with a 90+ MPH fastball is part of that positive evolution.

I'm not saying end careers, but I'm tired of this bull**** everyone gets a trophy and let's not keep score era. How many times would you let someone punch you in the face before you punched back? I'm all for a brawl or a beanball if it gets this damn pity party our of our damn heads that we seem to throw everytime we play this misfit team.
DRILL BABY DRILL

Iwritecode
08-18-2010, 01:05 PM
If it makes it sweeter for you, if that's the case, don't expect winning baseball.

Sadly, against the Twins, many don't.

getonbckthr
08-18-2010, 01:07 PM
Define: violent.
I don't care if its a pitch in the ribs, tower buzzing, maybe a knee into his collarbone when he slides. If none of those options are available you either drill or truck Mauer then stare into LF to let him know "congrats big guy! That one is on you!"

GrandValleyBB10
08-18-2010, 01:12 PM
I dont know about all of you, but i was outraged last night watching that game and seeing the bat throwing delmon young do that BS again. The way he has been swinging the bat we might be better off putting a 95 mph fastball or two into his rib cage. The sox as a team are at about the top in the league for getting plunked and about dead last in plunking the opposition. Some of that credit should go to our hitters and pitchers, but in situations like this, our pitchers need to start having our hitters backs, and i agree with some of the older posts I think linebrink or pena would be great guys to serve a 3 game suspension for going after some twins hitters! Lets build a 7 run lead after 7 and get gavin out of there and then go hunting!

dickallen15
08-18-2010, 01:19 PM
You've given up the game of baseball if you go this route. I'm telling you that right now, if that's the route you want them to take, might as well call it a season. Because you don't care about winning games as long as you "prove something". Which is nothing.

Drilling Mauer may stop the Twins from taking liberties from White Sox players. Its not about proving anything. Its time for the Sox to stop getting hit by Minnesota pitching. Time for Minnesota baserunners to stop giving Sox catchers cheap shots. If it takes one to Mauer's ribs to get that to stop, and apparently doing nothing doesn't make it stop, then drill Mauer. Let Delmon Young know if he pulls something, Joey is going to pay. I guarantee Delmon or any other Twins player will not go out of their way to cheap shot a White Sox catcher anymore.

fox23
08-18-2010, 01:21 PM
Extreme example? Certainly, but there is a certain cretin-esque desire in this thread for a "pound of flesh" or something or other. It's very frightening.

I don't even see how it pertains to the situation at all.

Harry Chappas
08-18-2010, 01:23 PM
The problem with taking the high road is that our opposition doesn't subscribe to that approach. MLB won't intervene and one of these days, a purpose pitch at TCQ will land him on the DL. The ONLY recourse is to quit bitching to the media and to apply an 'eye for an eye' strategy.

Is this juvenile - barbaric even? Yes, but what choice do they have? At some point, they have to stand up for themselves and their teammates.

doublem23
08-18-2010, 01:24 PM
Piss off ...:rolleyes:

Are you unaware that baseball was a segregated sport until 1947?

Coops4Aces
08-18-2010, 01:30 PM
I don't even see how it pertains to the situation at all.

It's an example that baseball has evolved over the years. Makes perfect sense to me.

JC456
08-18-2010, 01:32 PM
Drilling Mauer may stop the Twins from taking liberties from White Sox players. Its not about proving anything. Its time for the Sox to stop getting hit by Minnesota pitching. Time for Minnesota baserunners to stop giving Sox catchers cheap shots. If it takes one to Mauer's ribs to get that to stop, and apparently doing nothing doesn't make it stop, then drill Mauer. Let Delmon Young know if he pulls something, Joey is going to pay. I guarantee Delmon or any other Twins player will not go out of their way to cheap shot a White Sox catcher anymore.

You just made the best point on this thread. Drill Mauer and let the Twins take care of Delvin.

They certainly don't seem to mind hitting Carlos! so, why should we be at all concerned about hitting Mauer? I'd like to see him hit the dirt first, then hit him.

DirtySox
08-18-2010, 01:34 PM
Piss off ...:rolleyes:

Huh?

JC456
08-18-2010, 01:35 PM
What is sad is I haven't seen anything from the league on the Delvin hit on AJ? So even the league doesn't have our backs!!

In my mind, that is typical!!

KenBerryGrab
08-18-2010, 01:49 PM
If it makes it sweeter for you, if that's the case, don't expect winning baseball. Don't expect playoff baseball and don't complain about it. Keep your standards where they are, low, and you'll be fine. But I can't do that, sorry.

Yeah, Bob Gibson and the Cardinals never won anything by protecting their players.

pythons007
08-18-2010, 01:50 PM
If Floyd gets Span and Hudson out in the first. I want to see a Fastball in Mauer's something (knee, elbow, wrist). I want it to hurt, give them something to think about. Then when Young comes up, I want him drilled and for that matter, everytime he comes up for the rest of the series.

hi im skot
08-18-2010, 01:54 PM
If Floyd gets Span and Hudson out in the first. I want to see a Fastball in Mauer's something (knee, elbow, wrist). I want it to hurt, give them something to think about. Then when Young comes up, I want him drilled and for that matter, everytime he comes up for the rest of the series.

If this happens, I wouldn't be shocked to see Floyd get tossed.

mantis1212
08-18-2010, 02:00 PM
I say you get Buehrle warm, and send Gavin out there with a mission. Then when he gets tossed bring in Mark. Everyone in the rotation moves up one day since they had Monday off anyway.

Nellie_Fox
08-18-2010, 02:05 PM
Yeah, Bob Gibson and the Cardinals never won anything by protecting their players.In a very different era; when the umpires did NOTHING if the pitcher deliberately hit someone except award first base.

Umpire's warning after batter gets knocked down by Gibson: "Hey kid, be careful. Don't piss Gibson off, you might get killed."

getonbckthr
08-18-2010, 02:09 PM
Have Buerhle warmed. If Floyd gets tossed in the 1st he pitches tomorrow.

LoveYourSuit
08-18-2010, 02:10 PM
I hope a flyball is hit with AJ standing on 3rd.

More than likely that flyball would be hit with two outs.

34rancher
08-18-2010, 02:11 PM
I say you get Buehrle warm, and send Gavin out there with a mission. Then when he gets tossed bring in Mark. Everyone in the rotation moves up one day since they had Monday off anyway.

Oooh I like this one. I also like bringing in linebrink before buerhle just to get one more batter.

Nellie_Fox
08-18-2010, 02:11 PM
Have Buerhle warmed. If Floyd gets tossed in the 1st he pitches tomorrow.So you'd have two of your five starters throwing two days in a row, one of them an actual game? You'd have Buehrle get warmed up today, sit down, then pitch tomorrow? No.

kufram
08-18-2010, 02:12 PM
To put a pitch near Mauer's knee is a ridiculous over-reaction to a stupid, non-event act by Young. Young looks like a fool and to elevate it to getting your pitcher tossed or injuring a player that had nothing to do with it is playground thuggery.

A. J. did exactly the right thing... nothing. Ignore it. A.J. didn't even lose an ounce of balance. Let Young look a fool, stay above that kind of stupid play.. no need whatsoever to lower yourself to that standard.

I can understand anger at losing. I was angry too. But get a grip people. We lost a great game. The team fought back, didn't give up and showed some resilience.

Bob Roarman
08-18-2010, 02:27 PM
Yeah, Bob Gibson and the Cardinals never won anything by protecting their players.

It's a DIFFERENT ERA. God, how many times are people going to go in a circle about this? It's not the same. It doesn't work the same way anymore.

sachin
08-18-2010, 02:28 PM
Are you unaware that baseball was a segregated sport until 1947?

I'm aware. Did you know that Bill Veeck once sent a midget to bat? They both have NOTHING to do with the conversation of beaning a player.

Bob Roarman
08-18-2010, 02:29 PM
You just made the best point on this thread. Drill Mauer and let the Twins take care of Delvin.

They certainly don't seem to mind hitting Carlos! so, why should we be at all concerned about hitting Mauer? I'd like to see him hit the dirt first, then hit him.

No one has a problem hitting Carlos. It's not just the Twins. It's because the plate is his batter's box.

Slappy
08-18-2010, 02:37 PM
To put a pitch near Mauer's knee is a ridiculous over-reaction to a stupid, non-event act by Young. Young looks like a fool and to elevate it to getting your pitcher tossed or injuring a player that had nothing to do with it is playground thuggery.

A. J. did exactly the right thing... nothing. Ignore it. A.J. didn't even lose an ounce of balance. Let Young look a fool, stay above that kind of stupid play.. no need whatsoever to lower yourself to that standard.


I was agreeing with you up until here. Someone provided a link so check it out. He shoved AJ in the face. Hard.

Just win the next two games and if we haven't retaliated at the end, that will be a lot sweeter than if we had and still lost, I think.

guillensdisciple
08-18-2010, 02:39 PM
It's not really about protecting anyone, it's about wanting to win. You have to come into the match ready to stomp the competition, wanting to destroy them and defeat them at all costs.

People who believe that this game has changed, or that there is no need to it seem to forget that in the end it's us against them. It's never them with us, so your point is moot. The fact remains that the Twins are our rival, they are our enemy of sorts, and when you allow your enemy to continue getting the upper hand by instilling and intimidating advantage over our team, you will not win and your enemy will continue doing whatever they please.

You can also say that the Twins just showed they have the better team. For the past ten years the Twins may have had the better team one time or two times out of all of those years and the White Sox saw the lead slip away almost all of them. Why? Because we continue to allow this kind of behavior.

You don't do this for retaliation, you don't do this out of anger from yesterday, you do it because they are your enemy, you do it because they will do anything to beat you and you should do everything to beat them. That's the problem with sports, nobody has a killer instinct anymore, everyone wants to be respectable. You show respect to the people that matter, you show respect to the outside world, to your family, to your friends, but you don't show respect to the people trying to beat you day in and day out. That doesn't mean you kill them, but you have to do everything possible to beat them and if sending a message is one of those things then you better be doing it.

slavko
08-18-2010, 02:40 PM
More than likely that flyball would be hit with two outs.

Someone understands the situation here. Everybody else wants to lose the game and win the fight.

cards press box
08-18-2010, 02:41 PM
Hitting Delmon Young in the back with a fastball will not make second place any sweeter.

But it has to be done. Someone needs to drill Young in the ribs. That's the way baseball is and, frankly, that's the way life is. Consider this: if a bully knocks down a kid on the playground, what is the kid supposed to do? I'll tell you what he should do -- no matter how big the bully is, hit him in the nose as hard as possible, tackle him, do whatever is necessary but definitely retaliate. If the kid doesn't fight back, he can't go to the playground or anywhere else without being hounded. On a side note, one of my favorite scenes in the Billy Bob Thornton film Bad Santa is the one where Thornton, dressed in the Santa suit, drives to the playground and just drubs the bully who has was giving the kid (listed in the credits as "the kid") a hard time. Great stuff.

Anyway, it is drag that peaceful, law abiding people have to confront bullies (like hothead Delmon Young) but that's the way things have always been. The Sox need to retaliate in order to re-establish order and equilibrium. If they don't, the Twins can push them around indefinitely.

cards press box
08-18-2010, 02:42 PM
Someone understands the situation here. Everybody else wants to lose the game and win the fight.

I'm ok with waiting for a game where the Sox lead 6-0 (either now or in September) and then drilling Young.

aryzner
08-18-2010, 02:51 PM
Get Freddy in there to drill Delmon Young. He had no problem doing it in Young's first major league PA when he was with the Rays.

Bob Roarman
08-18-2010, 03:01 PM
It's not really about protecting anyone, it's about wanting to win. You have to come into the match ready to stomp the competition, wanting to destroy them and defeat them at all costs.

People who believe that this game has changed, or that there is no need to it seem to forget that in the end it's us against them. It's never them with us, so your point is moot. The fact remains that the Twins are our rival, they are our enemy of sorts, and when you allow your enemy to continue getting the upper hand by instilling and intimidating advantage over our team, you will not win and your enemy will continue doing whatever they please.

You can also say that the Twins just showed they have the better team. For the past ten years the Twins may have had the better team one time or two times out of all of those years and the White Sox saw the lead slip away almost all of them. Why? Because we continue to allow this kind of behavior.

You don't do this for retaliation, you don't do this out of anger from yesterday, you do it because they are your enemy, you do it because they will do anything to beat you and you should do everything to beat them. That's the problem with sports, nobody has a killer instinct anymore, everyone wants to be respectable. You show respect to the people that matter, you show respect to the outside world, to your family, to your friends, but you don't show respect to the people trying to beat you day in and day out. That doesn't mean you kill them, but you have to do everything possible to beat them and if sending a message is one of those things then you better be doing it.

No, it's because the Twins WERE better. They WON MORE GAMES. They were better at WINNING GAMES. It wasn't because they threw more at the opposing players, it was because more often than not they BEAT the other team AND THROWING AT PLAYERS DOES NOT HELP YOU WIN GAMES. It's counter productive. It's THAT SIMPLE. People want to make it out to be more than that and it's just not. I cannot grasp this view that so many people have that the Sox have to start doing that sort of crap and bam, THAT's the secret, that's the key that they were missing the entire time.

No, it's not. The Twins have MVP caliber players in Mauer and Morneau and had one of the best closers in the game, along with one of the best starters in the game for a while for all those years and a bunch of good complimentary players around them and they tend to play good defense. And I know it's repeated ad nauseum, but they don't beat themselves that much. That's why they win. And they've been able to do that more often than the Sox. It has nothing to do with beaning players.

guillensdisciple
08-18-2010, 03:06 PM
No, it's because the Twins WERE better. They WON MORE GAMES. They were better at WINNING GAMES. It wasn't because they threw more at the opposing players, it was because more often than not they BEAT the other team AND THROWING AT PLAYERS DOES NOT HELP YOU WIN GAMES. It's counter productive. It's THAT SIMPLE. People want to make it out to be more than that and it's just not. I cannot grasp this view that so many people have that the Sox have to start doing that sort of crap and bam, THAT's the secret, that's the key that they were missing the entire time.

No, it's not. The Twins have MVP caliber players in Mauer and Morneau and had one of the best closers in the game, along with one of the best starters in the game for a while for all those years and a bunch of good complimentary players around them and they tend to play good defense. And I know it's repeated ad nauseum, but they don't beat themselves that much. That's why they win. And they've been able to do that more often than the Sox. It has nothing to do with beaning players.

And you forget that we have much better pitching than they do. Your argument is that they have a better hitting squad, and mine is that we have the better pitching squad. Also, back in the day we had the better hitting squads and would still lose. We have had better teams, and we have continued to lose.

Listen, I advocate winning as the way to do things the right way, but I don't advocate losing and laying down while your doing it. That's all I'm saying, you have to win and lose wanting to embarrass your enemy. That's all, plain and simple. The message the Twins, with their inferior teams, have gotten time after time against us. I have no idea what you're talking about- try justifying the sucky ass teams the Twins have put in year after year prior to this year and how they have continued to take the Division from us.

Why is it, because they are so respectable? Because they are the better team- don't be delusional. They WANT to win, and they continue doing it. That is all, you take the game in your own hands, don't put it into theirs by being cute.

But hey, I'm sure the kid who got bullied was perfectly fine and got very far in his life when he continued letting people walk all over him. That's how the world works, the cowards always win.

EDIT: and quit denying the evidence that is staring you directly in the face in regards to how they have done violent things to us before. Come on man, how many times do you have to see a catcher run over or a played being plunked to understand that they see this the way we SHOULD see it.

Crestani
08-18-2010, 03:11 PM
So you'd have two of your five starters throwing two days in a row, one of them an actual game? You'd have Buehrle get warmed up today, sit down, then pitch tomorrow? No.


Way too much logic in your post for all the illogical posts before..!!

crashwave
08-18-2010, 03:13 PM
Young's shove wasn't exactly a Class A felony but it was bush-league. After the events of the past few games, I fully expect Young will get plunked. The Twins surely expect it too.

Hopefully, Young jogs down to first base, the fans ooh and aah, Gardenhire complains when both benches get warned, and then everybody moves on and gets back to baseball.

Oh, and the talk of throwing at or injuring Mauer? That's pathetic and sad.

getonbckthr
08-18-2010, 03:16 PM
So you'd have two of your five starters throwing two days in a row, one of them an actual game? You'd have Buehrle get warmed up today, sit down, then pitch tomorrow? No.
Sorry for the confusion. I meant have Floyd drill someone in the 1st inning, preferably Mauer. If he gets tossed Buerhle takes his place ( assuming he is ready to go). Tommorow's game Floyd will start since he would have thrown only like 10 pitches today.

34rancher
08-18-2010, 03:25 PM
Sorry for the confusion. I meant have Floyd drill someone in the 1st inning, preferably Mauer. If he gets tossed Buerhle takes his place ( assuming he is ready to go). Tommorow's game Floyd will start since he would have thrown only like 10 pitches today.

No, you meant have Floyd drill, and if he gets tossed have Linebrink pitch as long as it would take Buerhle to get warmed up. Then tomorrow scoot up rotation one day, and have Floyd pitch Friday....It's all good....
Drill, you never know, you might find oil. Doing nothing has not won us a series with them in OVER A YEAR...Time to try something different...

Bob Roarman
08-18-2010, 03:26 PM
And you forget that we have much better pitching than they do. Your argument is that they have a better hitting squad, and mine is that we have the better pitching squad. Also, back in the day we had the better hitting squads and would still lose. We have had better teams, and we have continued to lose.

Listen, I advocate winning as the way to do things the right way, but I don't advocate losing and laying down while your doing it. That's all I'm saying, you have to win and lose wanting to embarrass your enemy. That's all, plain and simple. The message the Twins, with their inferior teams, have gotten time after time against us. I have no idea what you're talking about- try justifying the sucky ass teams the Twins have put in year after year prior to this year and how they have continued to take the Division from us.

Why is it, because they are so respectable? Because they are the better team- don't be delusional. They WANT to win, and they continue doing it. That is all, you take the game in your own hands, don't put it into theirs by being cute.

But hey, I'm sure the kid who got bullied was perfectly fine and got very far in his life when he continued letting people walk all over him. That's how the world works, the cowards always win.

This dude.....hahahaha...ohhhh...man....where to begin?

If you have such a "better" team and you continue to lose the division to their "sucky ass" team....maybe you don't have a better team. Did that ever occur to you? Or is it always some excuse built in. I'm not saying the Twins are some great, unbelieveable team, I'm just saying they're probably better than the Sox. So, ok, by your logic, the Twins don't have a better team, but they WANT to win, so much more so that it becomes sort of like magic willpower and combined with Gardenhire's sorcery makes them only SEEM like a better team.......almost....every...time...they play the Sox. Hmmm. Maybe there's something I'm not taking into account. Maybe they're just better at winning baseball games. You think it might just be that? Maybe, just maybe? Or the magic willpower excuse? I don't know.

And when did the Sox lay down? They rallied back TWICE in that game. Danks had a rough first inning where it looked like he wouldn't last more than a couple if he was lucky. He went 7 innings and while he didn't have his best stuff at all, he saved the already shorthanded bullpen even more strain. Thornton pitched out of a jam but unfortunately blew the save when he probably shouldn't have been in there, but I don't know if there was much of a choice at that point.

Oh no wait, it wasn't Thornton. It was at the bottom of the 8th inning when Young tried to cheapshot AJ (and it was a cheapshot) as he was thrown out. Because we didn't do anything about that, we lost the game.....buuuut the very next inning, the first pitch, Ramirez hit a home run to tie it. Hmmm, that doesn't fit into the logic of the magic willpower theory. Guess we'll just ignore that.

I hate calling people names, but when does this stupidity end?

MP#3
08-18-2010, 03:28 PM
I lurk here all the time and never post but last night really pissed me off.

Someone needs to get drilled tonight and that's the bottom line. The Twins have been using Carlos and the Sox as target practice and it has to stop. The play with Young last night was a punk move, pure and simple. Had Young lowered his shoulder and plowed through that's one thing but to intentionally slam your forearms into AJ's head and then push with your arms is bull****. Had he used his fists it would have been considered a punch. The Sox look like chicken **** right now and are letting the Twins push them around. If you don't think that gets into the Sox heads, then I am sorry but your wrong. What this team needs is a bench brawl to get them fired up and give them a **** YOU attitude. Everytime they play the Twins they look like a cowering dog getting yelled at.

And to the people who think there is no need for it or no room for it or that it's not "sportmans like" I say bull****. This is not t-ball where everyone gets a plaque and trophy at the end of the year, this is Major League Baseball and it's time for the Sox to put the big boy pants on.

The season is getting short and if we want to win this division this team needs to light a fire up under it's ass and stop letting itself get kicked around.

Thank you, I shall return to the shadows.

theamb
08-18-2010, 03:30 PM
I'm more interested in winning the next two games than participating in a testosterone beanball war

BringHomeDaBacon
08-18-2010, 03:36 PM
Let me get this straight. Delmon Young, a 24 year old and 6'3" 200lb professional athlete, makes contact with AJ Pierzynski, a 33 year old 6'3" 230 lb professional athlete, on a play where contact is allowed.

And this is analogues to a schoolyard bully?

Hardly.

KMcMahon817
08-18-2010, 03:40 PM
I'm more interested in winning the next two games than participating in a testosterone beanball war

This. But a simple 95 MPH fastball high on Delmon's back wouldn't hurt. It needs to be done.

guillensdisciple
08-18-2010, 03:43 PM
This dude.....hahahaha...ohhhh...man....where to begin?

If you have such a "better" team and you continue to lose the division to their "sucky ass" team....maybe you don't have a better team. Did that ever occur to you? Or is it always some excuse built in. I'm not saying the Twins are some great, unbelieveable team, I'm just saying they're probably better than the Sox. So, ok, by your logic, the Twins don't have a better team, but they WANT to win, so much more so that it becomes sort of like magic willpower and combined with Gardenhire's sorcery makes them only SEEM like a better team.......almost....every...time...they play the Sox. Hmmm. Maybe there's something I'm not taking into account. Maybe they're just better at winning baseball games. You think it might just be that? Maybe, just maybe? Or the magic willpower excuse? I don't know.

And when did the Sox lay down? They rallied back TWICE in that game. Danks had a rough first inning where it looked like he wouldn't last more than a couple if he was lucky. He went 7 innings and while he didn't have his best stuff at all, he saved the already shorthanded bullpen even more strain. Thornton pitched out of a jam but unfortunately blew the save when he probably shouldn't have been in there, but I don't know if there was much of a choice at that point.

Oh no wait, it wasn't Thornton. It was at the bottom of the 8th inning when Young tried to cheapshot AJ (and it was a cheapshot) as he was thrown out. Because we didn't do anything about that, we lost the game.....buuuut the very next inning, the first pitch, Ramirez hit a home run to tie it. Hmmm, that doesn't fit into the logic of the magic willpower theory. Guess we'll just ignore that.

I hate calling people names, but when does this stupidity end?


Listen, when I say lay down, I say lay down in regards to the fact that we continue allowing such misbehavior without proper action. I am glad we fought back to almost win the game, but I am talking about making sure the Twins understand we are not just some team they can continue pushing around.

I don't know what cloud you're sitting on, guy, or this guy as you say (let me laugh at your previous post as you did to mine hahahahahahaahahahah), but if your theory of better teams always winning proves to be right then why the hell did the Yankees not win every damn championship for the past 11 years? Why have we had such parody in the league? Because there are teams that have a mental edge, not necessarily the edge in better teams. God knows how many ****ty teams have won in the playoffs (cardinals, Rockies, Diamondbacks, Astros). The Red Sox came back against the Yankees not because they had the better team but becayse they had what it took mentally to beat them. Mentality, what your franchise tries to believe the toughness- it all breeds in the clubhouse. If you allow others to hit you, if you submit to such bush league behavior then you are not strong enough as a team to fight back against it.

What you are mentally as a team has as much to do with what you are on paper as a team. The White Sox have had better teams (on paper) year after year, but lose everything in the final months time after time, because we are a team full of good guys.

It's a really simple concept to grasp. You don't kill people, you don't break their heads, you don't murder their families, all you do is make sure that they understand that you are human beings that deserve the same respect they do and that refuse to have such behavior inflicted upon them. Quite simple, you have to establish a winners mentality, not a "hey lets let these guys do whatever they want to us and pray we win" mentality like we have for quite a while now.

The Twins have had inferior teams, and have won- not because they are so much better with the players they have, but because they are ready and prepared to beat the Sox by any means when it comes down to it.

If the game was played by your awesome "best team wins " standard, we would not be watching it because the Yankees would have won every world series for the past 110 years.

Still doesn't make sense? Or should I stop this sensical explanation?

Bob Roarman
08-18-2010, 03:43 PM
McMahon- If you're more interested in winning the game, you don't put a guy on base and give the Twins another out to work with because it CAN hurt the Sox. They have enough problems with getting them out 3 times an inning, let along handing them a free base runner with, who, usually Thome coming up next? No thanks.

dickallen15
08-18-2010, 03:47 PM
McMahon- If you're more interested in winning the game, you don't put a guy on base and give the Twins another out to work with because it CAN hurt the Sox. They have enough problems with getting them out 3 times an inning, let along handing them a free base runner with, who, usually Thome coming up next? No thanks.
If there are 2 out in the first, drilling Mauer may even be better than pitching to him, results-wise. I'm sorry, I'm not into the macho thing, but its time the White Sox did something. They need to change the culture when the play in Minneapolis.

getonbckthr
08-18-2010, 03:49 PM
Let me get this straight. Delmon Young, a 24 year old and 6'3" 200lb professional athlete, makes contact with AJ Pierzynski, a 33 year old 6'3" 230 lb professional athlete, on a play where contact is allowed.

And this is analogues to a schoolyard bully?

Hardly.
Did you see the play in question? I'm assuming not. If you had you would have noticed Young went out of his way to go after AJ. Young after replay actually gave up a run to make contact with AJ. It was not an attempt to make a hard-nosed play, It was an attempt to take out and injure our catcher. So yes I think Ozzie Guillen and the Chicago White Sox, since major league baseball won't do anything about, should take it into our own hands. An eye for an eye.

bunty_doghunter
08-18-2010, 03:51 PM
Sorry for the confusion. I meant have Floyd drill someone in the 1st inning, preferably Mauer. If he gets tossed Buerhle takes his place ( assuming he is ready to go). Tommorow's game Floyd will start since he would have thrown only like 10 pitches today.
The main upside with drilling Mauer is he goes to first base instead of letting him hit a double or a homer!

getonbckthr
08-18-2010, 03:52 PM
The main upside with drilling Mauer is he goes to first base instead of letting him hit a double or a homer!
Ya hopefully shatters a kneecap or a couple ribs on top of it.

KMcMahon817
08-18-2010, 03:53 PM
McMahon- If you're more interested in winning the game, you don't put a guy on base and give the Twins another out to work with because it CAN hurt the Sox. They have enough problems with getting them out 3 times an inning, let along handing them a free base runner with, who, usually Thome coming up next? No thanks.

I am not going to go back and read all the nonsense in this thread, so sorry if I repeat something that I am sure has already been said.

For the most part, I agree. You never want to give a team an extra out, especially the Twins at home, and well, against us. BUT, you have to protect your players. It is a part of the game. Hopefully Delmon comes up with 2 outs and no one or two outs and a man on second, but it needs to be done. I actually like Joe Mauer, I grew up in MN, he is in MN boy, and damn he is good at baseball. But, put one in his ribs if that's what you want to do, but some kind of response is needed.

hi im skot
08-18-2010, 03:58 PM
Fxdz_Q_HrDc

bunty_doghunter
08-18-2010, 03:59 PM
Did you see the play in question? I'm assuming not. If you had you would have noticed Young went out of his way to go after AJ. Young after replay actually gave up a run to make contact with AJ. It was not an attempt to make a hard-nosed play, It was an attempt to take out and injure our catcher. So yes I think Ozzie Guillen and the Chicago White Sox, since major league baseball won't do anything about, should take it into our own hands. An eye for an eye.
AJ should thank Young. AJ is out of position in front of the bag and could easily have not tagged him out in time if he dives for the bag or slides. Young thought he was toast which is why he did what he thought was his only chance to score, knock the ball out. Nobody likes to see his guy hit, but this was a GOOD thing to keep the score off the board.

hawkjt
08-18-2010, 04:02 PM
Clearly the Twins are very comfortable at the plate vs the Sox and have hit well vs the Sox. Part of the reason might be because we do not move their feet, pitch inside,and occasionally hit them. They have done that vs the Sox over the years.

After Carlos hit a homer last week, the next time he was up,first base was open,and Perkins intentionally hit him,as the umpire then warned both teams. Now, that is not a play the Sox have done in recent years,especially vs the Sox. Every time Carlos gets hit, he could get a broken hand and be out for the season. It is a risk the Twins are willing to take with Carlos's season,yet the Sox are unwilling to risk hurting Mauer or Young in this fashion...why? It is bad baseball not to throw inside and move them off the plate. Plant the seed in their heads that the Sox are not conscientious objectors and might just hit them. Maybe they will not dig in so comfortably.

hangwithem
08-18-2010, 04:05 PM
I don't think the Sox should be in the business of acting like school girls by throwing at guys just because the other team did something first. How about taking the next two games of the series. That would be nice instead of "The Sox might have lost 4-1, but at least we planted one in Mauer's ribs." :redneck

Bob Roarman
08-18-2010, 04:06 PM
Carlos takes that risk every game against every team because he stands on the plate. So unless he changes that, that elevated risk will be continue to be there no matter who the Sox are facing.

Bob Roarman
08-18-2010, 04:11 PM
Listen, when I say lay down, I say lay down in regards to the fact that we continue allowing such misbehavior without proper action. I am glad we fought back to almost win the game, but I am talking about making sure the Twins understand we are not just some team they can continue pushing around.

I don't know what cloud you're sitting on, guy, or this guy as you say (let me laugh at your previous post as you did to mine hahahahahahaahahahah), but if your theory of better teams always winning proves to be right then why the hell did the Yankees not win every damn championship for the past 11 years? Why have we had such parody in the league? Because there are teams that have a mental edge, not necessarily the edge in better teams. God knows how many ****ty teams have won in the playoffs (cardinals, Rockies, Diamondbacks, Astros). The Red Sox came back against the Yankees not because they had the better team but becayse they had what it took mentally to beat them. Mentality, what your franchise tries to believe the toughness- it all breeds in the clubhouse. If you allow others to hit you, if you submit to such bush league behavior then you are not strong enough as a team to fight back against it.

What you are mentally as a team has as much to do with what you are on paper as a team. The White Sox have had better teams (on paper) year after year, but lose everything in the final months time after time, because we are a team full of good guys.

It's a really simple concept to grasp. You don't kill people, you don't break their heads, you don't murder their families, all you do is make sure that they understand that you are human beings that deserve the same respect they do and that refuse to have such behavior inflicted upon them. Quite simple, you have to establish a winners mentality, not a "hey lets let these guys do whatever they want to us and pray we win" mentality like we have for quite a while now.

The Twins have had inferior teams, and have won- not because they are so much better with the players they have, but because they are ready and prepared to beat the Sox by any means when it comes down to it.

If the game was played by your awesome "best team wins " standard, we would not be watching it because the Yankees would have won every world series for the past 110 years.

Still doesn't make sense? Or should I stop this sensical explanation?

I'm not saying the best team wins every game. But if a team continues to beat you, year in year out, maybe they're just better at baseball, not better at throwing at players. Is this not possible or something? I know the never ending hatred of rivalry blinds a lot of people and makes them unable to concede something like that, but at what point does it become overwhelmingly clear? Never? That's what it seems like. This type of "revenge" is unnecessary, especially at this point of the season.

They need WINS. You're not going to help your team by maybe getting one of your own players suspended or hurt in the aftermath of whatever stupidity that happens because you want to start a beanball war.

dickallen15
08-18-2010, 04:12 PM
Carlos takes that risk every game against every team because he stands on the plate. So unless he changes that, that elevated risk will be continue to be there no matter who the Sox are facing.
He gets hit a lot, no question about it. He was drilled, however, last week. It was no accident he was hit. Every batter risks getting hit, and when your team has been hitting players and giving some cheap shots, that risk should become elevated.

WhiteSox5187
08-18-2010, 04:13 PM
McMahon- If you're more interested in winning the game, you don't put a guy on base and give the Twins another out to work with because it CAN hurt the Sox. They have enough problems with getting them out 3 times an inning, let along handing them a free base runner with, who, usually Thome coming up next? No thanks.

Tony La Russa, who for all his flaws has won a ton of games, has ordered guys hit and lost the game but he figured that losing that one game was worth it down the road because teams knew they couldn't **** around with his teams. Yea, you might lose the game but you're telling teams to be careful because you won't sit idly by while they are plunking guys and that might pay off in spades down the stretch when the team knows their pitchers have their backs. There is a lot of history to suggest that retaliation works and it doesn't show up in the box score.

Bob Roarman
08-18-2010, 04:13 PM
Again, it comes back to the question of: What does it achieve? Nothing. It only has the potential to hurt your team. And in a pennant race nonetheless. It's not the years of yesterday where it was sort of accepted. It's not like that anymore.

bunty_doghunter
08-18-2010, 04:22 PM
Tony La Russa, who for all his flaws has won a ton of games, has ordered guys hit and lost the game but he figured that losing that one game was worth it down the road because teams knew they couldn't **** around with his teams. Yea, you might lose the game but you're telling teams to be careful because you won't sit idly by while they are plunking guys and that might pay off in spades down the stretch when the team knows their pitchers have their backs. There is a lot of history to suggest that retaliation works and it doesn't show up in the box score.
We got rid of him too.

BringHomeDaBacon
08-18-2010, 04:36 PM
Did you see the play in question? I'm assuming not. If you had you would have noticed Young went out of his way to go after AJ. Young after replay actually gave up a run to make contact with AJ. It was not an attempt to make a hard-nosed play, It was an attempt to take out and injure our catcher. So yes I think Ozzie Guillen and the Chicago White Sox, since major league baseball won't do anything about, should take it into our own hands. An eye for an eye.

Major League baseball won't do anything about it because there was nothing wrong with the play.

DSpivack
08-18-2010, 04:38 PM
We got rid of him too.

Hawk did, in his infinite wisdom as GM.

getonbckthr
08-18-2010, 04:54 PM
Major League baseball won't do anything about it because there was nothing wrong with the play.
Are you serious? Did you not see Young clearly go out of his way not to knock the ball out of AJ's glove but to punch him in the mouth? Seriously? Really? Really??

DickAllen72
08-18-2010, 04:57 PM
Major League baseball won't do anything about it because there was nothing wrong with the play.
So there's nothing wrong with hitting a guy in the face? Then the Sox should just hit the Twins first baseman in the face every play at first tonight.

You don't try to "knock the ball loose" by hitting the catcher in the face. If a catcher is blocking the plate you lower your shoulder and try to knock the ball from his mitt by trying to knock him on his ass.

Young went way out of his way, not even trying to get to the plate then went in with both hands to the face. Even though was out on a play that wasn't even close, he returned to the dugout and started high fiving everyone because he hit AJ in the face.

The Sox should make hard contact with a Twin in every play possible for the rest of this series. Go in hard and high every play at 2B. Intentionally make contact with the pitcher covering 1B even on an easy out instead of avoiding contact. Flatten Mauer at the plate every time they come around to score. There's plenty of ways to payback that don't involve throwing at a hitter. But if they must throw inside to get the point across, do it and don't worry if one slips and gets too far inside.

mzh
08-18-2010, 04:59 PM
So there's nothing wrong with hitting a guy in the face? Then the Sox should just hit the Twins first baseman in the face every play at first tonight.

You don't try to "knock the ball loose" by hitting the catcher in the face. If a catcher is blocking the plate you lower your shoulder and try to knock the ball from his mitt by trying to knock him on his ass.

Young went way out of his way, not even trying to get to the plate then went in with both hands to the face. Even though was out on a play that wasn't even close, he returned to the dugout and started high fiving everyone because he hit AJ in the face.

The Sox should make hard contact with a Twin in every play possible for the rest of this series. Go in hard and high every play at 2B. Intentionally make contact with the pitcher covering 1B even on an easy out instead of avoiding contact. Flatten Mauer at the plate every time they come around to score. There's plenty of ways to payback that don't involve throwing at a hitter. But if they must throw inside to get the point across, do it and don't worry if one slips and gets too far inside.
:tealpolice:

Meh, IDK. Just don't do anything stupid. Just ****ing win :P

DickAllen72
08-18-2010, 05:06 PM
Meh, IDK. Just don't do anything stupid. Just ****ing win :P
They should win every game just for the sake of winning not as retaliation for cheap shots.

If you're playing chess with someone and your opponent kicks you in the shins under the table, what do you do? As for me, I would just get up and leave because I'm not a violent person. But quitting is not an option here.

Some would say the best way to retaliate for the guy bruising your shins is just to win the chess game. I say you have to kick the guy back or punch him in the face to get him to stop kicking you, then you finish the chess game.

You're always playing to win, but when someone attacks you physically you defend yourself.

fox23
08-18-2010, 05:08 PM
I'm aware. Did you know that Bill Veeck once sent a midget to bat? They both have NOTHING to do with the conversation of beaning a player.

Exactly this.

DSpivack
08-18-2010, 05:13 PM
They should win every game just for the sake of winning not as retaliation for cheap shots.

If you're playing chess with someone and your opponent kicks you in the shins under the table, what do you do? As for me, I would just get up and leave because I'm not a violent person. But quitting is not an option here.

Some would say the best way to retaliate for the guy bruising your shins is just to win the chess game. I say you have to kick the guy back or punch him in the face to get him to stop kicking you, then you finish the chess game.

You're always playing to win, but when someone attacks you physically you defend yourself.

Baseball ain't chess. Sometimes it's a physical sport.

areilly
08-18-2010, 05:18 PM
New rule: every White Sox infielder gets a homemade knife taped around the inside of his forearm. Guy looks at you funny, shows you up, crashes into you, you send him to Shank City. The Sox will still be highly flawed and on their way to second, maybe even third place, but at least no one will **** with them. And really, isn't that what it's all about?

DickAllen72
08-18-2010, 05:34 PM
Baseball ain't chess. Sometimes it's a physical sport.
.......on both sides.

getonbckthr
08-18-2010, 05:38 PM
.......on both sides.
But not deliberately going out of the base-line, possibly taking a run away from your team to punch the catcher in the face.

DickAllen72
08-18-2010, 05:42 PM
But not deliberately going out of the base-line, possibly taking a run away from your team to punch the catcher in the face.
I'm with you. Football is of course a much more physical sport than baseball, yet even in football it is illegal to go to the face, head slap, etc.

What Young did was beyond the bounds of baseball.

cards press box
08-18-2010, 05:51 PM
New rule: every White Sox infielder gets a homemade knife taped around the inside of his forearm. Guy looks at you funny, shows you up, crashes into you, you send him to Shank City. The Sox will still be highly flawed and on their way to second, maybe even third place, but at least no one will **** with them. And really, isn't that what it's all about?

Throw all the hyperbole around that you want. This isn't about being the toughest guy on the field. It is about standing one's ground and competing.

With regard to the point made about the Sox shortcomings, yes the Sox have some flaws. Their offense has been inconsistent and at least one or two bats short all year. If the Sox felt that they didn't want a full-time DH like Jim Thome, that's a plausible strategy. But if they were going to go that route, they needed to have more offensive punch coming off the bench than Kotsay and A. Jones (and now Teahen) were likely to provide. Omar Vizquel and his defense at 3B have been great and, really, provided the spark for the six week period in June and July in which the Sox played the best baseball in the majors.

Having said all that, the Sox and their flaws are a wholly separate issue from the principle that a baseball team has to defend itself. Delmon Young didn't "look funny" at A.J. Pierzynski; he gave him a forearm blow to the face, something that is simply not done in baseball unless one is looking for a fight.

And, no this isn't just about stopping people from messing with the Sox. Baseball (and all sports, really) are about competition. If the other guy can intimidate you, then you are not going to compete and have lost already.

Can you imagine someone running home in a game against the Indians in the mid-fifties and giving a forearm chop to Indian catcher Jim Hegan? Early Wynn, Bob Lemon or Bob Feller would no doubt dust the guy. In fact, someone made a particularly dirty play against Larry Doby and Wynn, obviously in no mood for any shenanigans, knocked the guy down four times in one game!

If a player and his team are intimidated, they can't compete. And if they can't compete, they are done.

After Torii Hunter unnecessarily steamrolled Sox catcher Jamie Burke in 2004 and the Sox didn't retaliate, they were essentially done. The good news is that the Sox made some changes that winter (like bringing in AJ) that led to a World Championship.

Even if the Sox season has hit a proverbial brick wall, it is always good to remember that the Twins are 6-18 in the playoffs under Ron Gardenhire.

Bobby Jenks
08-18-2010, 05:52 PM
Anyone want to bet that gardenhire has his pitcher hit us in the first inning so that a warning is issued before we can retaliate for last night? I think it's brilliant as it gets in our head, protects his team, and makes us look like bigger pansies than we already are.


Retaliation for what?

theamb
08-18-2010, 05:55 PM
Are you serious? Did you not see Young clearly go out of his way not to knock the ball out of AJ's glove but to punch him in the mouth? Seriously? Really? Really??

I don't see MLB nor the White Sox making a big stink about it.

Just the fans.

Mainly because this team is slowly falling off and fading away after playing out of their minds for two months.And because the Twins have had this franchise's number for awhile.

At least we can stop using the Metrodome as an excuse.

oeo
08-18-2010, 06:05 PM
I don't see MLB nor the White Sox making a big stink about it.

Just the fans.

Mainly because this team is slowly falling off and fading away after playing out of their minds for two months.And because the Twins have had this franchise's number for awhile.

At least we can stop using the Metrodome as an excuse.

Thanks for informing people why they're angry about a dirty play. :rolleyes:

Bobby Jenks
08-18-2010, 06:06 PM
So there's nothing wrong with hitting a guy in the face? Then the Sox should just hit the Twins first baseman in the face every play at first tonight.

You don't try to "knock the ball loose" by hitting the catcher in the face. If a catcher is blocking the plate you lower your shoulder and try to knock the ball from his mitt by trying to knock him on his ass.

Young went way out of his way, not even trying to get to the plate then went in with both hands to the face. Even though was out on a play that wasn't even close, he returned to the dugout and started high fiving everyone because he hit AJ in the face.

The Sox should make hard contact with a Twin in every play possible for the rest of this series. Go in hard and high every play at 2B. Intentionally make contact with the pitcher covering 1B even on an easy out instead of avoiding contact. Flatten Mauer at the plate every time they come around to score. There's plenty of ways to payback that don't involve throwing at a hitter. But if they must throw inside to get the point across, do it and don't worry if one slips and gets too far inside.


Is there video of that? Because i certainly didn't see that.

getonbckthr
08-18-2010, 06:23 PM
Is there video of that? Because i certainly didn't see that.
Of what AJ getting hit in the face? Are you serious or did you not watch the game?

TheCommander
08-18-2010, 06:34 PM
Nobody's talking about ending careers here. But if the Sox want to be taken seriously, they don't need to take that from yesterday. Everybody knows that was a cheap shot, so just plunking him should work.

Um, the following member and another rambler have been doing just that:


I didn't see the play everyone is talking about, but if the Twins are consistently intentionally going after White Sox players to intimidate them, I wouldn't have any problem with the White Sox inflicting a season-ending, even a career ending injury to Joe Mauer. That would certainly put them in their place. I certainly am not inclined to feel bad for Justin Morneau.


I have no problem with plunking one of their players, but the members calling for headhunting or breaking kneecaps are acting like bigger jackasses than Young did last night.

nsolo
08-18-2010, 06:42 PM
Um, the following member and another rambler have been doing just that:



I have no problem with plunking one of their players, but the members calling for headhunting or breaking kneecaps are acting like bigger jackasses than Young did last night.

I noticed the Carlton Fisk image at the bottom of your post. I wonder what he would have done or thought?

getonbckthr
08-18-2010, 06:49 PM
I noticed the Carlton Fisk image at the bottom of your post. I wonder what he would have done or thought?
Ask Lou Pinella....

nsolo
08-18-2010, 06:57 PM
Ask Lou Pinella....
thank you.

BringHomeDaBacon
08-18-2010, 07:10 PM
But not deliberately going out of the base-line, possibly taking a run away from your team to punch the catcher in the face.

He was well within the baseline

getonbckthr
08-18-2010, 07:12 PM
He was well within the baseline
You're joking right?

BringHomeDaBacon
08-18-2010, 07:19 PM
You're joking right?

Do you have any idea how wide the baseline is?

getonbckthr
08-18-2010, 07:20 PM
Do you have any idea how wide the baseline is?
I know its not in front of home plate...

TheCommander
08-18-2010, 08:42 PM
I noticed the Carlton Fisk image at the bottom of your post. I wonder what he would have done or thought?

I wasn't quite 3 when the incident you are referencing happened and might not know all of the details. But I don't recall Fisk ever rooting for inflicting career-ending injuries or breaking kneecaps.

SBSoxFan
08-18-2010, 10:22 PM
Well, I hope everyone posting here that the Sox would in the wrong for retaliating in any way for Young's actions last night just heard the Twins' fans reaction when Capps almost hit Beckham.

areilly
08-18-2010, 10:52 PM
I noticed the Carlton Fisk image at the bottom of your post. I wonder what he would have done or thought?

He'd probably go all Billy Cole on Cuddyer. 'CAUSE THAT'S HOW YOU WIN THE DIVISION AND PLAY THE GAME THE RIGHT WAY!!!

white sox bill
08-19-2010, 08:10 AM
Common sense would tell you that drilling someone tonight could end in suspensions for us, not good in a pennant race(that is if you believe we are still in one). However, a good beaning, and I mean one thrown at the legs or lower body with no intent to injure, would make a statement that you may have a better team than us, at least currently, but you will not ever intimate us even in your house. If we lose the game, as we have a good chance of, at least we stood up to them and maintained our pride.

OR we could let the league rule on Delmons hit on AJ, hopefully he gets a few games off, and the Twinks lose their swank.

Damned if we do, damned if we don't. But I vote for the former....the next time we see them at the Cell it may be too late.

spiffie
08-19-2010, 12:41 PM
It would seem a good way to take revenge on MN would be to win some games, preferably from them. That would hurt them more than a fastball in the ribs.

Coops4Aces
08-19-2010, 01:00 PM
Common sense would tell you that drilling someone tonight could end in suspensions for us, not good in a pennant race(that is if you believe we are still in one). However, a good beaning, and I mean one thrown at the legs or lower body with no intent to injure, would make a statement that you may have a better team than us, at least currently, but you will not ever intimate us even in your house. If we lose the game, as we have a good chance of, at least we stood up to them and maintained our pride.

OR we could let the league rule on Delmons hit on AJ, hopefully he gets a few games off, and the Twinks lose their swank.

Damned if we do, damned if we don't. But I vote for the former....the next time we see them at the Cell it may be too late.

One HBP isn't going to get anyone suspended. Of all the guys on the Sox, Buehrle is the one who will always protect his teammates. I'm so confident that he hits someone tonight (most likely Delmon Young) that I'm willing to put 50$ on it right now.

ChiSoxFan81
08-19-2010, 01:42 PM
I'm getting tired of the Twinkies having their way with us. I can accept if they are simply a better team, but for them to continue beating us, and add insult to injury with all their shenanigans of beaning our guys and that crap Delmon Young pulled, we better do something about it. This garbage has been going on forever, since Torii Hunter barreled over Jamie Burke.

Obviously, the best way to retaliate is to win the damn games. But if we can't do that, we should at least drill somebody.

wassagstdu
08-20-2010, 06:28 AM
I think it was a stupid play by Young that made him look like a dumbass. Gardenhire pinch hitting for him in the 8th last night was kind of an admission that he deserved to get drilled. That's good enough for me. AJ?

kufram
08-20-2010, 06:40 AM
I don't think AJ felt anything but the breeze caused by Young. Stay above that kind of thing unless the guy actually hits you.

JC456
08-20-2010, 08:50 AM
I don't think AJ felt anything but the breeze caused by Young. Stay above that kind of thing unless the guy actually hits you.
I disagree! He clocked him. There was full contact. AJ's mask spun around his head.

I think it was enough for AJ to get in Young's face and shake his head no, no to the guy to see the reaction and then let wild man Young choose the battle. AJ didn't have to left a finger but to say no, no, or You're out!

white sox bill
08-20-2010, 08:57 AM
One HBP isn't going to get anyone suspended. Of all the guys on the Sox, Buehrle is the one who will always protect his teammates. I'm so confident that he hits someone tonight (most likely Delmon Young) that I'm willing to put 50$ on it right now.
Your on!!

BringHomeDaBacon
08-20-2010, 09:16 AM
I'm getting tired of the Twinkies having their way with us. I can accept if they are simply a better team, but for them to continue beating us, and add insult to injury with all their shenanigans of beaning our guys and that crap Delmon Young pulled, we better do something about it. This garbage has been going on forever, since Torii Hunter barreled over Jamie Burke.

Obviously, the best way to retaliate is to win the damn games. But if we can't do that, we should at least drill somebody.

The only reason it appears the Twins "have their way with us" is because they consistently beat us on the scoreboard. Everything else is ancillary.

AJ's a big boy playing a big boy position. He can take care of things himself the next time the Twins try to score or he's breaking up a double play. He's the last person that needs to be "protected".

Coops4Aces
08-20-2010, 10:50 AM
Your on!!

Haha I lose :whiner:

white sox bill
08-20-2010, 11:33 AM
Haha I lose :whiner:
Well we could rephrase said bet that it will happen in September at US Cell. Things could get interesting by then

Coops4Aces
08-20-2010, 12:45 PM
Well we could rephrase said bet that it will happen in September at US Cell. Things could get interesting by then

I think everyone will be waiting for it.

JC456
08-20-2010, 01:17 PM
I think everyone will be waiting for it.
I thnk it would be interesting if in that next home series, the fans give it to Young the entire first game out in the left field seats, and more on the next two nights.

I think a little noise would make a statement. Especially if it was most of the game.

just chant his name with a young sucks or something.

Irishsox1
08-20-2010, 03:46 PM
The time to have pegged Young would have been in the 8th when the Sox were up 11-0. Gardenheire pulled him for Repko because he knows what's coming and he didn't want Young to get hurt, or have Young flip out and get suspended. However, the Sox will hit him at some point during the Sept. 14th-16th series. The pitch will be a fastball chest high, it's just a matter if Young jogs to first base or goes after the pitcher.

kufram
08-21-2010, 09:13 AM
I disagree! He clocked him. There was full contact. AJ's mask spun around his head.

I think it was enough for AJ to get in Young's face and shake his head no, no to the guy to see the reaction and then let wild man Young choose the battle. AJ didn't have to left a finger but to say no, no, or You're out!

Sorry, I looked at it again... and again. Not clocked at all. Certainly not full contact. A bit of contact, albeit stupid on Young's part because he could have scored with the right slide. He knocked AJ's mask off but that isn't hard to do. AJ is a big boy and would have made more of it had it been more to make of. I still wouldn't have argued had Young got some high and tight fastballs afterward, but to go out looking to drill someone? No.