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View Full Version : We got ourselves a dilemma, Sox fans


capn12
06-26-2002, 12:26 AM
Well, well, well. Josh Paul has given us a dilemma to consider now, albeit finally a good problem to have. In 13 ABs, he has 7 hits, 1 double, 2 R, 3 RBIs, 2 BBs and 2 K's. I for one am happy to see Josh start to hitting, although its way too early to say he'll do it all year.
Heres the question....when Sandy comes off the DL, who does he replace? The defensive specialist, but light hitting Mark Johnson, or the pretty good offensive, but bad defensive Josh Paul?
I for one would love to see Josh get a month to show his abilities, and tell Mark that he is in a battle again.

What do you guys think???

Randar68
06-26-2002, 12:29 AM
Originally posted by capn12
Well, well, well. Josh Paul has given us a dilemma to consider now, albeit finally a good problem to have. In 13 ABs, he has 7 hits, 1 double, 2 R, 3 RBIs, 2 BBs and 2 K's. I for one am happy to see Josh start to hitting, although its way too early to say he'll do it all year.
Heres the question....when Sandy comes off the DL, who does he replace? The defensive specialist, but light hitting Mark Johnson, or the pretty good offensive, but bad defensive Josh Paul?
I for one would love to see Josh get a month to show his abilities, and tell Mark that he is in a battle again.

What do you guys think???

There is no dillema, Josh Paul hit .242 in AAA and is not as good a defensive catcher as either MJ or Alomar. The fact that he's been 7-13 is a fluke and not indicative of his "potential"

Tragg
06-26-2002, 12:31 AM
Alomar and should be released or traded to the Brewers (or anyone who will take his ungodly salary).

His offense is terrible - .298 OBP - 2 walks all season!! Johnson, who is having a rough year, is only 10 points worse.

Give credit where credit is due - paul has hit the ball well this season.

Daver
06-26-2002, 12:33 AM
Originally posted by capn12
Well, well, well. Josh Paul has given us a dilemma to consider now, albeit finally a good problem to have. In 13 ABs, he has 7 hits, 1 double, 2 R, 3 RBIs, 2 BBs and 2 K's. I for one am happy to see Josh start to hitting, although its way too early to say he'll do it all year.
Heres the question....when Sandy comes off the DL, who does he replace? The defensive specialist, but light hitting Mark Johnson, or the pretty good offensive, but bad defensive Josh Paul?
I for one would love to see Josh get a month to show his abilities, and tell Mark that he is in a battle again.

What do you guys think???

Josh Paul will hit the waiver wire,unless he can be traded before Sandy comes off the DL.

Randar68
06-26-2002, 12:39 AM
Originally posted by Tragg
Give credit where credit is due - paul has hit the ball well this season.

Last I checked, "hit the ball well this season" usually implies playing time equalling more than a week or 13 AB's.

He couldn't hit .250 in AAA.

Tragg
06-26-2002, 01:01 AM
Originally posted by Randar68


Last I checked, "hit the ball well this season" usually implies playing time equalling more than a week or 13 AB's.

He couldn't hit .250 in AAA.

And alomar has an abysmal .298 obp for half a season (sufficient statistical time period), hasn't done a thing since he's arrived, and is paid several million for doing nothing. I don't think it's entirely coincidence that the team's decline coincided with the arrival of highly paid non producers like clayton and alomar. (it's not all their fault, but it sure hasn't help). Perfect chance to send a message, imo. Release Alomar.

method
06-26-2002, 01:05 AM
Hes not the greatest defensive catcher... nor has he shown that he can hit in AAA... but whenever hes up here he bring fire to the team... something we havent had all year... and i am sooooo sick of watching MJ call for the outside fasball on 1-2 counts that get smoked for hits...

doublem23
06-26-2002, 01:26 AM
*****!!!!

You're going to hand someone the starting job at one of the most important positions on the field based on THIRTEEN at bats????

:versatile
Chicks dig versatility!

voodoochile
06-26-2002, 01:36 AM
Think it's a coincidence that MJ started to show more life at the plate the minute they recalled Paul? Maybe he knows that eventually Alomar comes back and one of the other two has to go. At least they should allow Paul to platoon with MJ on a R/L basis and see if Paul can keep hitting.

If so, they could afford to try and trade Sandy or keep him on the DL if the other two continue to play better...

Tragg
06-26-2002, 01:37 AM
Originally posted by doublem23
*****!!!!

You're going to hand someone the starting job at one of the most important positions on the field based on THIRTEEN at bats????

:versatile
Chicks dig versatility!

No, I base it on 3700+ at bats - a dreadful career .310 OBP for alomar, which btw, is below paul's.

Chisox_cali
06-26-2002, 01:55 AM
Originally posted by daver


Josh Paul will hit the waiver wire,unless he can be traded before Sandy comes off the DL.

Why isn't TSN talking about that?

Sandy Alomar Jr. (sore right shoulder) is eligible to come off the 15-day disabled list this weekend, which likely means Josh Paul is headed back to Class AAA Charlotte.

But after coming up to fill Alomar's roster spot, Paul has performed very well. He had four hits in his first eight at-bats and the team benefited from his above-average speed on the bases.

With regular backup catcher Mark Johnson struggling to keep his batting average above .200, the team might decide to keep Paul in the role when Alomar returns.

Mathew
06-26-2002, 02:11 AM
Josh Paul will probably hit .600 all year.

oldcomiskey
06-26-2002, 07:27 AM
the first pink slip had better be handed to Clayton

duke of dorwood
06-26-2002, 08:42 AM
:versatile


Shhhhhh... don't remind anyone about Seattle last year

foulkesfan11
06-26-2002, 09:51 AM
I still like our chances with Paul better than Johnson.

34 Inch Stick
06-26-2002, 09:58 AM
You could legitimately keep Sandy on the DL for the rest of his life. I say give him another 15 days and ride a hot Paul. When he cools off, launch him and bring Sandy back.

Randar68
06-26-2002, 10:48 AM
Originally posted by foulkesfan11
I still like our chances with Paul better than Johnson.

1) he's a moron on the basepaths.
2) He has no power
3) he is the only catcher the coaching staff calls the pitches for
4) he's the worst of the 3 in terms of defense
5) He's righthanded

So in effect, picking Josh over Sandy is gaining you 30 OBP points but losing you defense and power.

I'm glad all these arm-chair morons don't actually run this team.

Paulwny
06-26-2002, 10:54 AM
Originally posted by Randar68

I'm glad all these arm-chair morons don't actually run this team.


LOL

PaleHoseGeorge
06-26-2002, 11:25 AM
I'm about as big a proponent of mashing the ball as anybody on this board, but even I draw the line on favoring the dubious value of Josh Paul's bat over Mark Johnson's defense. We're talking about catchers here. Nobody handles the ball more than they do.

To my thinking, MJ would be the perfect #9 hitting catcher. He bats left-handed, can take a walk, and performs above-average on defense. He's especially valuable when you compare his salary with the costs of the alternatives.

Of course he never gets to bat #9 because of You-Know-Who.

:jerry
"Somebody call my name?"

Garrison
06-26-2002, 01:01 PM
I say they platoon Johnson and Paul for now on a L/R basis. Johnson would make a good #9 hitter and hopefully once Royce is gone, he'll have that chance. MJ has had a poor run or late, but earlier in the season he was hitting well and there is no reason that he can't start doing it again. Paul is hot right now so forget his AAA stats and that crap and let him keep hitting. He has added a spark to the offense that we sorely lack so why not let him ride out his hot streak? Defense is important from a catcher, but right now he need a kick in the ass and if Josh can provide it then by all means let him. Sandy Alomar gets paid millions to sit on the DL with his numerous injuries etc. He's not even worth it. He's decent defensively and has a decent bat, but he's not worth what we're paying him. I want to see his ass traded or released. Make a statement by dumping a veteran and giving the job to Johnson or Johnson/Paul.

:KW
"I thought "Alomar" meant he was good. I am confused."

Tragg
06-27-2002, 12:09 AM
Originally posted by Randar68


1) he's a moron on the basepaths.
2) He has no power
3) he is the only catcher the coaching staff calls the pitches for
4) he's the worst of the 3 in terms of defense
5) He's righthanded

So in effect, picking Josh over Sandy is gaining you 30 OBP points but losing you defense and power.

I'm glad all these arm-chair morons don't actually run this team.

Power? A whopping 97 homers in 3649 at bats coming into this year? Hasn't had a double digit year in homers since 1997 and has had only 4 in his career. Johnson's as good, if not better, defender. Alomar brings nothing - less than nothing - to this team.
Johnson and paul are younger, cheaper and better ball players.

capn12
06-27-2002, 12:46 AM
Well, it was our ace mark Buehrle who was raving about the game that Josh called his last time out.

"He showed that he can do it up here," said Mark Buehrle. "He's a good catcher, he calls a good game. He's producing offensively and I think he's making this organization make a choice whenever they send a catcher down if it's going to be him, Johnson or Alomar."

You guys are making it sound like Sandy is the next I-Rod.....he's aging, has bad knees, and is at best gonna catch 100 games in a season. Two years ago, everyone was calling for Josh to be the everyday starter, but now are willing to settle for a broken down former ROY.

bc2k
06-27-2002, 06:20 AM
This is Alomar's last year with the Sox. Why make room on the roster for him by sending down Josh Paul and risk losing him to wavers. We are already losing one catcher at the end of the season, why lose two?

Randar68
06-27-2002, 11:56 AM
Originally posted by Tragg


Power? A whopping 97 homers in 3649 at bats coming into this year? Hasn't had a double digit year in homers since 1997 and has had only 4 in his career. Johnson's as good, if not better, defender. Alomar brings nothing - less than nothing - to this team.
Johnson and paul are younger, cheaper and better ball players.

Defending Johnson is one thing, he's a good defensive player and patient at the plate. Paul is indefensible. He didn't even have a .300 OBP at AAA!

Where do you people get these crazy ideas?!?!?

Randar68
06-27-2002, 11:59 AM
Originally posted by capn12
Well, it was our ace mark Buehrle who was raving about the game that Josh called his last time out.

"He showed that he can do it up here," said Mark Buehrle. "He's a good catcher, he calls a good game. He's producing offensively and I think he's making this organization make a choice whenever they send a catcher down if it's going to be him, Johnson or Alomar."

You guys are making it sound like Sandy is the next I-Rod.....he's aging, has bad knees, and is at best gonna catch 100 games in a season. Two years ago, everyone was calling for Josh to be the everyday starter, but now are willing to settle for a broken down former ROY.

No, you've got it wrong. There is a slew of people around here saying WAIVE ALOMAR and the like just so we can play Josh Paul. Who are you kidding?

As for Buehrle's comments: Josh Paul had EVERY pitch in that game called for him by the dugout. MJ or Alomar call EVERY pitch for themselves.

Sandy is no I-ROD, that's for sure. However, he's a better option than Paul even on his worst day.

13 at-bats and you guys are already having his bust for Cooperstown made. Unreal. And I thought Sox fans were level-headed....

delben91
06-27-2002, 12:04 PM
Hey Randar, any chance Olivo would be ready for some backup duty come next year? Sandy may be better than Josh, but, Josh has youth on his side. If we don't have any new alternatives for next season, I'd rather keep Josh around and ditch Sandy. Only because we have a better chance of Josh being able to play when we need him, whereas one false step and Sandy is out of commission for a month.

Randar68
06-27-2002, 12:14 PM
Originally posted by delben91
Hey Randar, any chance Olivo would be ready for some backup duty come next year? Sandy may be better than Josh, but, Josh has youth on his side. If we don't have any new alternatives for next season, I'd rather keep Josh around and ditch Sandy. Only because we have a better chance of Josh being able to play when we need him, whereas one false step and Sandy is out of commission for a month.

Well, he's improving, both with the bat and with his game-calling. However, I feel he'll still need another year of regular PT, hopefully in AAA, before he's ready to be a contribuor on the big club.

foulkesfan11
06-27-2002, 04:50 PM
Originally posted by Randar68

I'm glad all these arm-chair morons don't actually run this team.



Arm Chair Morons? I don't think so.

1. He's fast
2. He has more power than Johnson
3. I'd rather have Paul Right handed with power than Johnson Left handed & popping or grounding out all the time.


I didn't say I was picking Josh over Sandy. Just over MJ

Get a clue!

Randar68
06-27-2002, 05:18 PM
Originally posted by foulkesfan11




Arm Chair Morons? I don't think so.

1. He's fast
2. He has more power than Johnson
3. I'd rather have Paul Right handed with power than Johnson Left handed & popping or grounding out all the time.


I didn't say I was picking Josh over Sandy. Just over MJ

Get a clue!


Good thing you don't care about defense for the positional player that touches the ball more than everyone else combined in the course of a game.

Thanks for confirming...

doublem23
06-27-2002, 05:22 PM
When did everyone join the Josh Paul Fan Club?

:versatile
Everyone digs versatility!

Randar68
06-27-2002, 05:31 PM
Originally posted by doublem23
When did everyone join the Josh Paul Fan Club?

:versatile
Everyone digs versatility!

All the FOB jumped ship to the FOP and FOR clubs! This is getting too Cubs-like.

Jerry_Manuel
06-27-2002, 05:34 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
All the FOB jumped ship to the FOP and FOR clubs! This is getting too Cubs-like.

I agree.

doublem23
06-27-2002, 05:40 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
All the FOB jumped ship to the FOP and FOR clubs! This is getting too Cubs-like.

I got $10 that says they'll all be asking for Josh's head on a silver platter when he returns to his normal .268 crappiness....

LOL.. Josh Paul.

Randar68
06-27-2002, 06:03 PM
Originally posted by doublem23


I got $10 that says they'll all be asking for Josh's head on a silver platter when he returns to his normal .268 crappiness....

LOL.. Josh Paul.

Either that or makes a few outs on the basepaths....

Soxheads
06-27-2002, 06:07 PM
Isn't it Nellie that says that catcher is a primarily defensive position anyway?

guillen4life13
06-27-2002, 07:07 PM
my opinion of the most important positions defensively, and in order (not hardest... but most important)

1. Pitcher (the best defense is pitching... right?)
2. catcher
3. 1B (touches the ball when anything is hit on the ground in the IF)
4. SS
5. 2B (6?)
6. 3B (5?)
7. CF
8. LF
9. RF


the fact of the matter is... josh paul hasn't made a huge blunder defensively... and mj has not done a great job throwing out runners. when sandy is healthy, he is the best at keeping the ball from passing him. and .268 is better than johnson's or alomar's career average. these are just facts. here are my true opinions : alomar is never going to be fully healthy again... therefore if I had it my way, johnson and paul would platoon (johnson would play more b/c there are more RHP's). of course... the sox are not going to solve the sandy problem... so i would keep johnson up here. josh paul's average is undoubtedly going to come back down at least to the .240s... but i think that less than .200 is likely.

alohafri
06-27-2002, 07:49 PM
Originally posted by doublem23


I got $10 that says they'll all be asking for Josh's head on a silver platter when he returns to his normal .268 crappiness....

LOL.. Josh Paul.

Josh Paul's .268 is better than Johnson's .203 (or Clayton's for that matter). Can Paul play short?

doublem23
06-27-2002, 07:54 PM
Originally posted by guillen4life13
1. Pitcher (the best defense is pitching... right?)
2. catcher
3. 1B (touches the ball when anything is hit on the ground in the IF)
4. SS
5. 2B (6?)
6. 3B (5?)
7. CF
8. LF
9. RF

I dunno... I agree with the one Andrew Ritchie used in his Konerko vs. Cameron (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/rwas/index.php?category=2&id=791) column.

doublem23
06-27-2002, 07:56 PM
Originally posted by alohafri
Josh Paul's .268 is better than Johnson's .203 (or Clayton's for that matter). Can Paul play short?

Yes, baseball is all about offense.

Whoops, should have used teal.

PaleHoseGeorge
06-27-2002, 08:06 PM
I've never seen serious debate on this matter. Of the eight position players, the catcher has the most difficult defensive position. From there it goes:

Shortstop (lots of range, lots of arm strength)
Second base (similar to SS with less arm strength)
Center field (needs lots of range)
Third base (strong arm only)
Right field (strong arm only)
Left field (similar to RF with less arm strength)
First base (no range, no arm strength necessary)

As Randar pointed out, the catcher handles the ball more than everybody else combined. Thus, the defensive requirements are not a linear relationship from top to bottom.

Although the firstbasemen catches the ball quite a bit, it is nearly always dead after he catches it. Contrast that with a catcher who handles a live ball nearly the whole game.

Foulke You
06-27-2002, 08:41 PM
Has anyone considered that the Sox may carry 3 catchers? Manuel hinted in the paper that this is what they may do. After all, look how well 3 catchers worked for the Cubs! If they do keep 3 catchers, does this mean bye bye to Rowand or Liefer?

FarWestChicago
06-27-2002, 09:44 PM
Originally posted by Randar68


All the FOB jumped ship to the FOP and FOR clubs!Wouldn't that be FOV, for Friends Of Versatile? :smile:

foulkesfan11
06-28-2002, 11:04 AM
Originally posted by Randar68


All the FOB jumped ship to the FOP and FOR clubs! This is getting too Cubs-like.

It's not Cubs like. I just like our offensive chances with Paul better than with Johnson. Paul has made a few mistakes at catcher, but his bat more than makes up for it.

Randar68
06-28-2002, 11:15 AM
Originally posted by foulkesfan11


It's not Cubs like. I just like our offensive chances with Paul better than with Johnson. Paul has made a few mistakes at catcher, but his bat more than makes up for it.

Can Jerry or someone please catalog some of these rediculous threads so we can relive them at a later time?

Paulwny
06-28-2002, 11:32 AM
Did any of you J. Paul fans watch him last year ?
He's lucky to be on this team.
The only way he catches for another ml team is in the bull pen.

Randar68
06-28-2002, 11:39 AM
Originally posted by Paulwny
Did any of you J. Paul fans watch him last year ?
He's lucky to be on this team.
The only way he catches for another ml team is in the bull pen.

History is no indicator of future success. Josh Paul will continue his 9 for 18 start and hit his way into the Hall of Fame in no time...

delben91
06-28-2002, 11:42 AM
Originally posted by Randar68


History is no indicator of future success. Josh Paul will continue his 9 for 18 start and hit his way into the Hall of Fame in no time...

Wait, I thought he was voted into the Hall of Fame this past year...well, next year he'll be in for sure.

doublem23
06-28-2002, 11:56 AM
I honestly believe the ONLY reason Josh Paul ever made it this far is because he is from the northern/northwestern suburbs, primarily Cubbie Country. Methinks JR is using Paul to try and sway some suburban kids to the South Side.