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View Full Version : *Official* Lost in the 9th 8/14 Postgame


october23sp
08-14-2010, 08:57 PM
2 Games back. Hope everyone is drinking this loss away on this Saturday night.:angry::whiner:

SoxSpeed22
08-14-2010, 08:57 PM
Was hoping they would rally to laugh at this.
Beckham almost had that one.

soxinem1
08-14-2010, 08:59 PM
GIDP's, can't hit a guy with an ERA near SIX, blown lead in the 9th....

Tough one.

RadioheadRocks
08-14-2010, 09:00 PM
And once again Edwin deserved far better... :angry:

Viva Medias B's
08-14-2010, 09:00 PM
GIDP's, can't hit a guy with an ERA near SIX, blown lead in the 9th....

Tough one.

And 2 GB. Wonderful.

soltrain21
08-14-2010, 09:00 PM
I no longer enjoy game threads.

SoxSpeed22
08-14-2010, 09:01 PM
Rios looks completely lost out there. Double plays against a bust this year and blown lead in the 9th is always a lot of fun.

MtGrnwdSoxFan
08-14-2010, 09:01 PM
I'm really starting to lose confidence in our pen in the late innings.

This one hurts, bad.

Pablo_Honey
08-14-2010, 09:01 PM
Can't do much when you can't score runs. Our bullpen is getting tired of having to bail out this piss poor excuse of an offense. On the bright side, E-Jax is showing a lot, lots more promise than I ever expected.

JermaineDye05
08-14-2010, 09:02 PM
This team just looks like it needs a day off. They've got one on Monday and then it's right into the fire in Minnesota.

2-3 on the homestand, not good.

Now we have to hope that Freddy doesn't lay another egg tomorrow.

Harry Potter
08-14-2010, 09:02 PM
I miss Bobby

No teal intended.


We need Big Game to live up to his nickname tomorrow.

october23sp
08-14-2010, 09:03 PM
http://www.old-picture.com/american-history-1900-1930s/pictures/Driving-Nail-Coffin.jpg
Loss tomorrow and I'm calling it.

ndgt10
08-14-2010, 09:03 PM
And 2 GB. Wonderful.

Make that 3 after tomm with Freddy pitching.

Going down 3 games into Min we have to win the series, otherwise we are done!!!

hi im skot
08-14-2010, 09:03 PM
Wanna make the playoffs? Gotta win games like this.

Crestani
08-14-2010, 09:04 PM
My signature line says it all..!!:angry:

october23sp
08-14-2010, 09:04 PM
I no longer enjoy game threads.

We're 2 games back now. White Sox baseball in general isn't nearly as fun.

hi im skot
08-14-2010, 09:04 PM
[IMG]
Loss tomorrow and I'm calling it.

Of course you are.

guillensdisciple
08-14-2010, 09:04 PM
I'm just happy I am no longer the angry fan.

Same old story with the Sox. I expect the late month meltdown, anything more and I am surprised.

Whatever Sox, go get them tomorrow.

Mizzourah
08-14-2010, 09:04 PM
They certainly look finished. Three blow saves in the ninth since the break. Can't hit. Pretty upset that a bat did not arrive by July 31.

MtGrnwdSoxFan
08-14-2010, 09:04 PM
http://www.old-picture.com/american-history-1900-1930s/pictures/Driving-Nail-Coffin.jpg
Loss tomorrow and I'm calling it.

Right, because no team in the history of baseball has ever made up a 3-game deficit in the standings with a month and a half left to play.

I understand you're pissed, as you should be. But after every loss, you pull this. It's getting old.

october23sp
08-14-2010, 09:05 PM
Of course you are.

We aren't coming back from 3 down. :shrug:

JermaineDye05
08-14-2010, 09:05 PM
Wanna make the playoffs? Gotta win games like this.

You're gonna lose games like this. If you wanna make the playoffs, you have to learn to put these games behind you. The Sox have done a good job of having short memories this year. I'm faithful they can bounce back from the tough loss. It's what they've done.

soltrain21
08-14-2010, 09:06 PM
We're 2 games back now. White Sox baseball in general isn't nearly as fun.

Stop being so ****ing melodramatic. It's two ****ing games. If you can't handle it than stop watching.

It sucks they lost, but your constant pants-pissing is getting so god damn old.

Soxman219
08-14-2010, 09:06 PM
Better win tomorrow and hope the twins lose.

october23sp
08-14-2010, 09:06 PM
Stop being so ****ing melodramatic. It's two ****ing games. If you can't handle it than stop watching.

It sucks they lost, but your constant pants-pissing is getting so god damn old.

Kool.

shingo10
08-14-2010, 09:07 PM
We aren't coming back from 3 down. :shrug:

Good thing we're only 2 down then. This is the ebb and flow of a baseball season. Up one moment, down the next. Something tells me there will be more optimism at this time tomorrow.

Nelfox02
08-14-2010, 09:08 PM
jeez, for the second time in a row this should have been a post game thread with a lot us eating crow about Jackson and singing the praises of KW for landing what looks to be a nice pick up for us thus far.....instead it is a lament of wasted offense, wasted pitching, a late inning collapse........

There is a funk about this club right now, and it has come at the worst possible time with Minn white hot and licking thier chops to see us next week at their place.......

This was a big one for so many reasons-----stay 1 back and in position to go to Minn tied first and foremost, but also Freddie has really been bad as of late and you are looking to him tomorrow to get you desperatly needed win? not the position I wanted to be in

I said in the gamethread that a rally to win the game would have done a lot of damage to the aforementioned funk in sox land right now.....well trotting off to another L has cemented it

nothing can be done now except win tomorrow, hope the A's give us a hand and avoid the sweep, AND then find a way to at least win the series in Minn.......that is what totally sucks tho about the good chance we now have at being 2 out tho, even if you win that series you are still a game back, you are not going into the series looking get back to first....you are just trying to survive.....

RadioheadRocks
08-14-2010, 09:10 PM
Stop being so ****ing melodramatic. It's two ****ing games. If you can't handle it than stop watching.

It sucks they lost, but your constant pants-pissing is getting so god damn old.


And constantly bitching about those who are bitching is SO much better. :rolleyes:

voodoochile
08-14-2010, 09:10 PM
I no longer enjoy game threads.

Why do you think we built a separate forum for them? Because we don't want that garbage in the Clubhouse...

voodoochile
08-14-2010, 09:11 PM
Do I have to start handing out rips and locking this thread?

Knock off the personal crap.

Tragg
08-14-2010, 09:11 PM
Yet another horrendous offensive performance, in what has been a week nearly full of them.

Not a single extra base hit all night. You need to drive the ball and players who can do that.
There's a lot of holes on this team that Williams is going to have to fix next year- a lot of them.

ChicagoG19
08-14-2010, 09:14 PM
Eventually the Sox were gonna hit a slump after being sizzling hot for 2 months. Let's hope this slump doesn't last too much longer. Despite the homerun in the 9th, the pitching has continued to hold up for the most part. What concerns me, however, is that the White Sox seemed to have reverted back to relying on homeruns for most of their scoring again.

arKnaD7
08-14-2010, 09:14 PM
I think tomorrow's game is huge. With a loss tomorrow and a series coming up in Minny I could see this team rolling over. However, I thought they had rolled over on the season a while ago and that wasn't the case.

Only time will tell, we need a good outing from Freddy tomorrow.

hi im skot
08-14-2010, 09:16 PM
Do I have to start handing out rips and locking this thread?

Knock off the personal crap.

No offense voodoo, but it's a regular cast of characters (or just a solo act) that constantly brings these threads down. We're all upset, but man, I'm tired of the doom and gloom.

Thome_Fan
08-14-2010, 09:17 PM
You can Putz it on the board... :(:

veeter
08-14-2010, 09:17 PM
I wish Ozzie didn't replace Carlos with his spot due to hit in the ninth. It's simple, Paul and Rios are suddenly not hitting. Not his fault, but I hate Mark Teahen's presence. I hate when guys who throw 97 mph, get beat on hanging, off-speed pitches. They'll cut it to one game tomorrow. And to say the Sox are through if it gets to three games back, is a joke.

Soxman219
08-14-2010, 09:17 PM
Rather be two back now than in late september

soltrain21
08-14-2010, 09:18 PM
I wish Ozzie didn't replace Carlos with his spot due to hit in the ninth. It's simple, Paul and Rios are suddenly not hitting. Not his fault, but I hate Mark Teahen's presence. I hate when guys who throw 97 mph, get beat on hanging, off-speed pitches. They'll cut it to one game tomorrow. And to say the Sox are through if it gets to three games back, is a joke.

There is no better option than Teahen.

RadioheadRocks
08-14-2010, 09:19 PM
No offense voodoo, but it's a regular cast of characters (or just a solo act) that constantly brings these threads down. We're all upset, but man, I'm tired of the doom and gloom.


I definitely agree, and the back and forth is getting out of hand... but point taken and moving forward from here.

veeter
08-14-2010, 09:19 PM
There is no better option than Teahen.I just don't hate Kotsay.

Foulke You
08-14-2010, 09:20 PM
That Baltimore series really put our offense into a funk. I thought coming home to our ballpark would snap them out of it but unfortunately it hasn't. Nothing special about the pitching we faced tonight, our hitters just didn't get it done. 2 runs on 10 hits. How many times have we done this lately?

delben91
08-14-2010, 09:20 PM
I put more onus on the offense today, but man, there's someone on the Sox that can get 3 outs in the 9th without giving up runs right?

Take them tomorrow (I know the Sox want to prove me wrong in the prediction thread!:redneck)

soltrain21
08-14-2010, 09:20 PM
I just don't hate Kotsay.

Teahen is a superior hitter than Kotsay, though. I wish we had a better option than both of them, but we don't. You have to go with Teahen.

Hitmen77
08-14-2010, 09:21 PM
I'm just happy I am no longer the angry fan.

Same old story with the Sox. I expect the late month meltdown, anything more and I am surprised.

Whatever Sox, go get them tomorrow.

This is a typical White Sox 2nd half performance over the last decade or so.

A month ago tomorrow we had a 4.5 game lead on the Twins. Wow. This team has really come back down to earth since the All-Star break.

I guess we can add Porcello to the list of 2010 Cy Young candidates.

soltrain21
08-14-2010, 09:22 PM
This is a typical White Sox 2nd half performance over the last decade or so.

A month ago tomorrow we had a 4.5 game lead on the Twins. Wow. This team has really come back down to earth since the All-Star break.

I guess we can add Porcello to the list of 2010 Cy Young candidates.

Did you expect them to keep up such a torrid pace?

veeter
08-14-2010, 09:23 PM
Teahen is a superior hitter than Kotsay, though. I wish we had a better option than both of them, but we don't. You have to go with Teahen.I can't put Mark Teahen and the word 'superior' in any sentence. I know what your saying, but I thought the guy sucked on the Royals, I hated the trade and I hate him wearing a Sox uniform. But you're right the options are limited.

Lip Man 1
08-14-2010, 09:24 PM
Tragg mentioned the offense which got me to checking, this is the 14th game this year the Sox have lost when allowing an opponent three runs or less. That's a lot of losses wasting pretty good pitching performances

Lip

Hitmen77
08-14-2010, 09:25 PM
Did you expect them to keep up such a torrid pace?

They didn't have to keep up their torrid pace to be in the driver seat in the 2nd half. I'd settle for a decent pace.

guillensdisciple
08-14-2010, 09:26 PM
The White Sox have to win tomorrow and beat the Twins at their house. The only way I know we are winning it this year is if we prove that we can overcome the demons we regularly fall to.

Beating them at their house will prove that we have something left to give them. I believe.

Tragg
08-14-2010, 09:26 PM
Did you expect them to keep up such a torrid pace?

The other way to look at it, the Sox woefully underperformed the first 6 weeks, so that torrid pace just got them back to where they should have been.
Obviously we're not going to go 17-3 every 20 games, but when a team loses 3/4 to lowly Baltimore, 2/3 to the main rival at home, and blows games to below .500 teams, concern is reasonable.

The team is in an offensive funk, and has below average hitters (at their best, they are below average) at 3 key hitting positions: 3B, LF and DH. Its hard to score runs slapping singles all night.

TDog
08-14-2010, 09:26 PM
GIDP's, can't hit a guy with an ERA near SIX, blown lead in the 9th....

Tough one.

It's irrelevant what a pitcher's ERA is. The Sox have hit Porcello before, and they got 11 baserunners off him in seven innings tonight. He obviously pitched better tonight than he did in his three losses to the Sox this season. In the last two, the Sox scored double digits.

The White Sox should have won this game. They scraped for a 2-1 lead, and when you take a 2-1 lead in the eighth at home, you should win. Thornton got through Cabrera part of the lineup, which was more threatening, especially after the leadoff double, and they might have won if Jenks had been available to close.

The inning that killed the Sox offensively was the third when the Sox put two on with one out to bring up Rios, who hit into the doubleplay, leaving Konerko to leadoff the fourth with a single, preceding Quentin's fourth-inning-ending doubleplay. It wasn't a matter of not having the right hitters up.

The Sox also should have done more with the fifth, when Ramirez scored from third to take the lead on a ground ball, giving the Sox an extra out, but Vizquel popped out with two on before Rios grounded out in his second RBI opportunity against Porcello.

Still, the Sox took the lead with heroics from Pierre and Vizquel after two outs, and that should have been enough.

It was a tough loss. Jackson pitched great -- again. With their starting pitching, the Sox are a long way from being dead.

soltrain21
08-14-2010, 09:30 PM
The other way to look at it, the Sox woefully underperformed the first 6 weeks, so that torrid pace just got them back to where they should have been.
Obviously we're not going to go 17-3 every 20 games, but when a team loses 3/4 to lowly Baltimore, 2/3 to the main rival at home, and blows games to below .500 teams, concern is reasonable.

Yes. There is cause for concern, but some of these "if they don't win tomorrow they are done" is ridiculous. The Twins will cool off. There is still a month and a half of baseball left and we are only two games out. People need to step off the ledge.

Less than a month ago we were getting clutch hits like it was contagious. Right now we aren't. It will come back around.

If we don't win the division we don't win the division - but it's far too presumptuous to throw in the towel TOMORROW.

Nelfox02
08-14-2010, 09:30 PM
we have been with serious question marks since the start of the season, I have felt all along that we are not a bad team, but not really all that good of one either

that was why April and May were so frustrating, not only that we were losing games in the manner we were, but I knew we were a better team than that

they put together a remarkable run, but the 162 game grind of a season usually ends up putting teams where they belong by end of year, and for us I feel that is 5-10 games over .500 and second place

not trying to be "overly negative" but I just dont think we have the better team than Minn this season, did not think at in April, still didnt think it at the all star break, and dont think it now.

Hopefully I am wrong, hopefully this team goes out and proves a lot of people besides me wrong.....I am grateful they played their way back in this thing but at the end of the day I just dont think we have the personnel ammo to finish the job

Crestani
08-14-2010, 09:30 PM
It's irrelevant what a pitcher's ERA is. The Sox have hit Porcello before, and they got 11 baserunners off him in seven innings tonight. He obviously pitched better tonight than he did in his three losses to the Sox this season. In the last two, the Sox scored double digits.

The White Sox should have won this game. They scraped for a 2-1 lead, and when you take a 2-1 lead in the eighth at home, you should win. Thornton got through Cabrera part of the lineup, which was more threatening, especially after the leadoff double, and they might have won if Jenks had been available to close.

The inning that killed the Sox offensively was the third when the Sox put two on with one out to bring up Rios, who hit into the doubleplay, leaving Konerko to leadoff the fourth with a single, preceding Quentin's fourth-inning-ending doubleplay. It wasn't a matter of not having the right hitters up.

The Sox also should have done more with the fifth, when Ramirez scored from third to take the lead on a ground ball, giving the Sox an extra out, but Vizquel popped out with two on before Rios grounded out in his second RBI opportunity against Porcello.

Still, the Sox took the lead with heroics from Pierre and Vizquel after two outs, and that should have been enough.

It was a tough loss. Jackson pitched great -- again. With their starting pitching, the Sox are a long way from being dead.


That pretty much sums it up..!!:whiner:

MountainCur
08-14-2010, 09:31 PM
I prefer to look at the positive right now - Jackson is waay way way better than I expected.

Now its time to wash away the total frustation - I am more than halfway there - a few more shots of George Dickel will get me there.

Brian26
08-14-2010, 09:34 PM
Tragg mentioned the offense which got me to checking, this is the 14th game this year the Sox have lost when allowing an opponent three runs or less. That's a lot of losses wasting pretty good pitching performances

Lip

Lip-

You go back farther than me, but did this one remind you of Lee Stevens at all? We're coming up on the 20th anniversary of that game (11 days removed). I don't think the severity is the same, as two games out is not the end of the world on August 15th, but tonight was a heartbreaker in the same way.

whitesox4eva
08-14-2010, 09:38 PM
We aren't coming back from 3 down. :shrug:

Just like we didn't come back from over 9 down. :shrug:

Lip Man 1
08-14-2010, 09:40 PM
Brian:

Hard to compare blown games in the 9th inning my friend. :D:

Seriously it's hard to say, if you're a fan you hurt just as much regardless.

To me though two of the hardest ones to take were Jenks' blown three run lead game earlier this year and the one Foulke lost in the 9th with a three run lead at the Metrodome in 2001 (I think it was June 2001). That was a killer because the Sox could have closed to within two games of the lead.

Right now the Sox have lost ten games where they took a lead into the 7th inning or later. That's tough to take regardless of what the circumstances were.

Lip

russ99
08-14-2010, 09:41 PM
Don't understand all the griping.

It was very uncomfortable in the stands and that's with an icee, dipping dots and bottles of G2.

These guys are gassed playing in these conditions for 12 straight days, plain and simple.

A day off Monday and some cooler weather in Minny next week will do a world of good.

That said, huge bummer Putz couldn't pull this one out. Let's get them tomorrow and hope Oakland can score at least a few runs.

voodoochile
08-14-2010, 09:42 PM
No offense voodoo, but it's a regular cast of characters (or just a solo act) that constantly brings these threads down. We're all upset, but man, I'm tired of the doom and gloom.

No offense Skot, but I think that both you and Soltrain have posted here long enough to know this isn't the proper medium to express those frustrations and I think you know what I'm going to say, but I'll say it again anyway...

Please don't take the law into your own hands. We ask that posters report posts that offend them not attack the poster who made them.

We also ask that people not abuse that report button, but if something has you so worked up either from a single incident or a series of disconnected but similar moments, then use it.

Dibbs
08-14-2010, 09:48 PM
Don't understand all the griping.

It was very uncomfortable in the stands and that's with an icee, dipping dots and bottles of G2.

These guys are gassed playing in these conditions for 12 straight days, plain and simple.

A day off Monday and some cooler weather in Minny next week will do a world of good.

That said, huge bummer Putz couldn't pull this one out. Let's get them tomorrow and hope Oakland can score at least a few runs.


It's too cold in April.

It's too hot in August.

God this team is always loaded with psychological issues. That is one category we have led the league in for years.

Kenny needed to get a bat and didn't come through.

Brian26
08-14-2010, 09:49 PM
To me though two of the hardest ones to take were Jenks' blown three run lead game earlier this year and the one Foulke lost in the 9th with a three run lead at the Metrodome in 2001 (I think it was June 2001). That was a killer because the Sox could have closed to within two games of the lead.

I *think* that was the Denny Hocking game. I'd have to look it up. I remember that, along with Foulke's meltdown against Giambi in early 2002 at home.

RadioheadRocks
08-14-2010, 09:50 PM
It's too cold in April.

It's too hot in August.

God this team is always loaded with psychological issues. That is one category we have led the league in for years.

Kenny needed to get a bat and didn't come through.

Exactly, using that logic you'd think we didn't have hot summer weather.

Dan H
08-14-2010, 09:51 PM
These games are hard to take and there have been too many of them lately. A sweep is needed in Minnesota, but I don't know if that is possible. The offense has to come out of it before it is too late.

TDog
08-14-2010, 09:51 PM
Lip-

You go back farther than me, but did this one remind you of Lee Stevens at all? We're coming up on the 20th anniversary of that game (11 days removed). I don't think the severity is the same, as two games out is not the end of the world on August 15th, but tonight was a heartbreaker in the same way.

I remember the Lee Stevens game. I've heard Bobby Thigpen talk about Lee Stevens. This one is different. In the Lee Stevens game, the Sox fell to 5 games out, in the last week of August. And that White Sox team was a bigger surprise than this one is, going up against the A's, who were supposed to run away with the division. The White Sox were more David to the A's Goliath.

I don't think this game was nearly as severe.

voodoochile
08-14-2010, 09:52 PM
I do admit that I find it questionable to pull TCQ in a one run game when he's due up the next inning. Most of the time teams don't pull their best hitters in close games even if they aren't that great defensively for just that reason. Now if he had batted in the 8th it would be a different issue, but even then you want his bat if the game ends up going to extras.

Brian26
08-14-2010, 09:55 PM
These games are hard to take and there have been too many of them lately. A sweep is needed in Minnesota, but I don't know if that is possible. The offense has to come out of it before it is too late.

A sweep is not needed. Two out of three (making up one game on the Twins) would be nice.

If we get swept and lose three games of ground, we're in trouble.

1989
08-14-2010, 09:56 PM
Brian:

Hard to compare blown games in the 9th inning my friend. :D:

Seriously it's hard to say, if you're a fan you hurt just as much regardless.

To me though two of the hardest ones to take were Jenks' blown three run lead game earlier this year and the one Foulke lost in the 9th with a three run lead at the Metrodome in 2001 (I think it was June 2001). That was a killer because the Sox could have closed to within two games of the lead.

Right now the Sox have lost ten games where they took a lead into the 7th inning or later. That's tough to take regardless of what the circumstances were.

Lip

How many games have the Sox won when trailing entering the 7th inning or later? My guess is that it isn't ten.

MountainCur
08-14-2010, 09:58 PM
we have hit the dawg days.

this can be expected when you have to have a hot june and july to get back in it.

how quickly we can get that second wind will determine our fate.

i don't think kw made a mistake in not getting a bat.
i think he made a good (at least from what we have seen so far) move with jackson.

what is truly worrisome is the closer situation. i cannot think of an option that looks like the right decision.

Brian26
08-14-2010, 09:58 PM
I do admit that I find it questionable to pull TCQ in a one run game when he's due up the next inning. Most of the time teams don't pull their best hitters in close games even if they aren't that great defensively for just that reason. Now if he had batted in the 8th it would be a different issue, but even then you want his bat if the game ends up going to extras.

You're playing to win the game, so you bring in your closer and put the best defense on the field for the 9th to get three outs. If you lose, you lose with your best team on the field defensively. I don't think you play with the notion that the game could tie and go into extras.

Same idea...if it's the bottom of the 9th in a tie game and Konerko leads off with a walk, you pinch run Lillibridge to go for the win. You don't keep PK in because the Sox might not score and go into extra innings.

Harry Potter
08-14-2010, 10:00 PM
I *think* that was the Denny Hocking game. I'd have to look it up.

You are correct. http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/MIN/MIN200106260.shtml

Lip Man 1
08-14-2010, 10:03 PM
1989:

To answer your question the Sox have won games when they were trailing in the 7th inning or later 9 times.

The overwhelming majority of those games saw the Sox get the lead in the 7th inning.

Lip

Brian26
08-14-2010, 10:03 PM
You are correct. http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/MIN/MIN200106260.shtml

Thanks for posting that.

Clayton was sporting a .176 batting average at the end of June and still getting considerable playing time. What a headache of a season (except for the emergence of Buehrle).

voodoochile
08-14-2010, 10:03 PM
You're playing to win the game, so you bring in your closer and put the best defense on the field for the 9th to get three outs. If you lose, you lose with your best team on the field defensively. I don't think you play with the notion that the game could tie and go into extras.

Same idea...if it's the bottom of the 9th in a tie game and Konerko leads off with a walk, you pinch run Lillibridge to go for the win. You don't keep PK in because the Sox might not score and go into extra innings.

Most teams don't pull their best hitters in close games late from my experience. The odds on a ball being hit that Jones gets to that TCQ doesn't are small.

Dan H
08-14-2010, 10:04 PM
A sweep is not needed. Two out of three (making up one game on the Twins) would be nice.

If we get swept and lose three games of ground, we're in trouble.

I think a sweep is needed. Even if the Sox win two out of three, this means with the two out of three lost in Chicago, the Sox will have gained no ground on the Twins in head to head games. That doesn't help much.

I just think the Sox need to make some kind of statement in Minnesota. This race is far from over but it is starting to slip away. They need to turn things around or they will be out of it by early September. A sweep is needed. Whether the Sox are capable of it or not is another story.

Jollyroger2
08-14-2010, 10:04 PM
Meh. Been saying it since the first game of the Balt. series last week. The Sox are a mediocre team that got fat on the weaklings in the NL. Again tonight they can't hit a lousy pitcher. Same story. Crappy offense all around. But management didn't want to go out and get a bat or two at the deadline, so we're stuck with this garbage.

WhiteSox5187
08-14-2010, 10:06 PM
I do admit that I find it questionable to pull TCQ in a one run game when he's due up the next inning. Most of the time teams don't pull their best hitters in close games even if they aren't that great defensively for just that reason. Now if he had batted in the 8th it would be a different issue, but even then you want his bat if the game ends up going to extras.

Given how god awful Quentin looks in RF I have no problem with pulling him for a defensive replacement. When you're up in the top half of the ninth at home you expect to not bat in the bottom half. At least you should anyways.

It is easy to point the finger at Putz, but really the Sox should score more than two runs off of a kid with an ERA of 5.74. Rios of late has looked lost and seeing how much he struggled in August and September last year it has me a bit concerned.

The real devastating part of this loss is that it puts a lot of pressure on Freddy (a guy who has given you way more than you could have reasonably expected) to come through lest you should fall back three games going into a series against a team you just don't play well. A loss tomorrow does not put a nail in the coffin, but it sure as hell puts a lot of pressure on the Sox.

It seems like the difference between the Sox and the Twins this year is that the Twins beat the teams they are supposed to beat, we don't do that (unless they are NL teams). Also, Minnesota is finding ways to win games it seems like of late we are finding ways to lose them.

On a personal note tonight was my graduation party and my family celebrated it at the game in one of the sky boxes. Putz kind of ruined my night but I am somewhat proud to say I was able to swallow my raging anger better than I usually do.

voodoochile
08-14-2010, 10:06 PM
Thanks for posting that.

Clayton was sporting a .176 batting average at the end of June and still getting considerable playing time. What a headache of a season (except for the emergence of Buehrle).

Is that the year he was hitting .099 around Memorial Day? I went to a game close to my birthday that year and he got a late hit to crack the .100 barrier and the fans gave him a very sarcastic standing ovation and then one of the teammates ripped the fans.

Brian26
08-14-2010, 10:06 PM
I remember the Lee Stevens game. I've heard Bobby Thigpen talk about Lee Stevens. This one is different. In the Lee Stevens game, the Sox fell to 5 games out, in the last week of August. And that White Sox team was a bigger surprise than this one is, going up against the A's, who were supposed to run away with the division. The White Sox were more David to the A's Goliath.

I don't think this game was nearly as severe.

I agree. The other frustrating aspect was that the Sox didn't really get stronger at the trading deadline (the Phil Bradley trade was fairly insignificant), but the A's somehow picked up Harold Baines and Willie McGee for the final month of the season.

MountainCur
08-14-2010, 10:07 PM
Meh. Been saying it since the first game of the Balt. series last week. The Sox are a mediocre team that got fat on the weaklings in the NL. Again tonight they can't hit a lousy pitcher. Same story. Crappy offense all around. But management didn't want to go out and get a bat or two at the deadline, so we're stuck with this garbage.


C'mon man - you know that is bull.

We beat up on more than just the NL, they just happened to be the catalyst.

GoGoCrede
08-14-2010, 10:08 PM
Just got home and I've got a huge headache. Without a doubt, one of the tougher losses of the season. Loved seeing Jackson's debut at home, and I really think he deserved better. Hell, we all did.

2/3 is still possible, so just ****ing do it.

At least we got bobbleheads, I guess. All the screaming Detroit fans at the game, I hope they're happy with their 3rd place team.

WhiteSox5187
08-14-2010, 10:09 PM
Most teams don't pull their best hitters in close games late from my experience. The odds on a ball being hit that Jones gets to that TCQ doesn't are small.

I'd beg to differ, Quentin is an awful fielder and while he might get to a ball it's usually after getting a bad initial read and then slipping a bit in RF. Jones is a vastly better RF.

Brian26
08-14-2010, 10:09 PM
Most teams don't pull their best hitters in close games late from my experience. The odds on a ball being hit that Jones gets to that TCQ doesn't are small.

Not sure TCQ is our 3rd best hitter now, let alone our best. :tongue:

MountainCur
08-14-2010, 10:11 PM
Given how god awful Quentin looks in RF I have no problem with pulling him for a defensive replacement. When you're up in the top half of the ninth at home you expect to not bat in the bottom half. At least you should anyways.

It is easy to point the finger at Putz, but really the Sox should score more than two runs off of a kid with an ERA of 5.74. Rios of late has looked lost and seeing how much he struggled in August and September last year it has me a bit concerned.

The real devastating part of this loss is that it puts a lot of pressure on Freddy (a guy who has given you way more than you could have reasonably expected) to come through lest you should fall back three games going into a series against a team you just don't play well. A loss tomorrow does not put a nail in the coffin, but it sure as hell puts a lot of pressure on the Sox.

It seems like the difference between the Sox and the Twins this year is that the Twins beat the teams they are supposed to beat, we don't do that (unless they are NL teams). Also, Minnesota is finding ways to win games it seems like of late we are finding ways to lose them.

On a personal note tonight was my graduation party and my family celebrated it at the game in one of the sky boxes. Putz kind of ruined my night but I am somewhat proud to say I was able to swallow my raging anger better than I usually do.

Good for you, and congrats on graduating. I am more depressed tha n usual after this loss. I usually don;t come on here and read posts after a loss - much less actually post stuff. But this one really ahs me down.

i also try to be sober when i post on message boards - breaking another rule

WhiteSox5187
08-14-2010, 10:12 PM
I agree. The other frustrating aspect was that the Sox didn't really get stronger at the trading deadline (the Phil Bradley trade was fairly insignificant), but the A's somehow picked up Harold Baines and Willie McGee for the final month of the season.

Himes didn't want to trade away his young pitching but Toroborg had said that they were considering a trade for Bernie Williams for two fairly insignificant prospects (well, they were two guys who I don't think did much of anything). Himes didn't do it and that set up the years of Schuler not doing much of anything at trade deadlines either.

GoGoCrede
08-14-2010, 10:12 PM
On a personal note tonight was my graduation party and my family celebrated it at the game in one of the sky boxes. Putz kind of ruined my night but I am somewhat proud to say I was able to swallow my raging anger better than I usually do.


Congrats, fellow graduate and English major. I'll drink to that. :gulp:

shingo10
08-14-2010, 10:14 PM
Everyone wants a bat now that the offensive has been in a slump. But had we traded Beckham/Vicedio to get the bat everyone would be up in arms about that. I really don't think the Sox had a choice this trade deadline. Kenny made the deal for Berkman but Berkman nixed it. The price for Dunn was too high. I'm not sure about guys like Hawpe or Luke Scott but I just don't think that it would have been wise to give up so much on what is a pretty weak trade market.

Now people will want us to claim Manny or someone on waivers and once again I don't think it's realistic.

The time to get a bat was before the season and we didn't. But the same group of guys struggling right now were in first place just last week so the offense has proven it can work. It just isn't.

voodoochile
08-14-2010, 10:16 PM
I'd beg to differ, Quentin is an awful fielder and while he might get to a ball it's usually after getting a bad initial read and then slipping a bit in RF. Jones is a vastly better RF.

Yes, but the ball actually has to be hit to RF and then to a difficult part to reach part of RF. There were 3 outs to go. The odds on that chance happening are well below 10%, IMO. It's not that Jones isn't a much better fielder - he is, but there simply isn't the amount of AB left to justify the move. Now if Quentin wasn't due up the next inning or the Sox led by 3, I'd feel differently.

Not sure TCQ is our 3rd best hitter now, let alone our best. :tongue:

I'd still rather have him leading off the bottom of the ninth by a wide margin over Jones and he was 2-3 tonight and has hit some HR again recently. If he reaches base you could have put Jones in then to run for him.

WhiteSox5187
08-14-2010, 10:16 PM
Everyone wants a bat now that the offensive has been in a slump. But had we traded Beckham/Vicedio to get the bat everyone would be up in arms about that. I really don't think the Sox had a choice this trade deadline. Kenny made the deal for Berkman but Berkman nixed it. The price for Dunn was too high. I'm not sure about guys like Hawpe or Luke Scott but I just don't think that it would have been wise to give up so much on what is a pretty weak trade market.

Now people will want us to claim Manny or someone on waivers and once again I don't think it's realistic.

The time to get a bat was before the season and we didn't. But the same group of guys struggling right now were in first place just last week so the offense has proven it can work. It just isn't.

I'm not sure what was being tossed about in the trade market, but I agree it is best to have kept Beckham and Vicideo. Without really knowing what went on it certainly seemed like the Sox were just locked in on Adam Dunn and while he would help a lot on a team like this, a guy like Luke Scott or that guy from the Royals who just went to the Giants (his name escapes me) would have helped a lot too.

WhiteSox5187
08-14-2010, 10:18 PM
Yes, but the ball actually has to be hit to RF and then to a difficult part to reach part of RF. There were 3 outs to go. The odds on that chance happening are well below 10%, IMO. It's not that Jones isn't a much better fielder - he is, but there simply isn't the amount of AB left to justify the move. Now if Quentin wasn't due up the next inning or the Sox led by 3, I'd feel differently.



I'd still rather have him leading off the bottom of the ninth by a wide margin over Jones and he was 2-3 tonight and has hit some HR again recently. If he reaches base you could have put Jones in then to run for him.

The way I see it is, if you're leaving Quentin out there because you want him leading off the bottom of the ninth and you have the lead in the top half, you're already beat. If you're going to lose in the ninth lose with your best defensive team out there.

Nelfox02
08-14-2010, 10:18 PM
even if this team was playing well right now I would not be expecting a sweep in Minn, the Twins are a good team, their park will be full of fans, and we face Liriano and Pavano

I dont want to say impossible, as nothing is, but I am saying extremely unlikely

winning 2 of 3 will be tough.........get there 1 game back so we at least have a decent chance of getting a share of first as we jett the hell out of there

Get us a W tomorrow big game, somehow, someway

Avoid the sweep tomorrow oak, somehow, someway

voodoochile
08-14-2010, 10:18 PM
I'm not sure what was being tossed about in the trade market, but I agree it is best to have kept Beckham and Vicideo. Without really knowing what went on it certainly seemed like the Sox were just locked in on Adam Dunn and while he would help a lot on a team like this, a guy like Luke Scott or that guy from the Royals who just went to the Giants (his name escapes me) would have helped a lot too.

The Sox just acquired a LH bat yesterday...

JermaineDye05
08-14-2010, 10:19 PM
We'll beat the Twins in game 163. I'm not worried.

Jackson is making this rotation look very scary for 2011. I'm fully confident this offense will be far better then too.

WhiteSox5187
08-14-2010, 10:20 PM
The Sox just acquired a LH bat yesterday...

Teahen is not exactly the power bat I had in mind. But he's what we got. Let's see how well he can contribute.

BringHomeDaBacon
08-14-2010, 10:21 PM
Ozzie should have left Quentin in the game. If he doesn't trust Quentin enough to field the ninth then he should be the DH. Last time I checked, defense matters in the other eight innings as well.

With a lefty on the mound, he should have had A Jones hit for Teahen and he should have had Castro hit for AJ.

Omar runs the bases like he has **** for brains. He's now been thrown out six times trying to advance. And that's not even counting the four times he's been caught stealing.

It didn't matter today but hitting Alexei and Beckham 8/9 in this lineup is foolish. They've both been scorching hot for a month and a half now.

voodoochile
08-14-2010, 10:22 PM
The way I see it is, if you're leaving Quentin out there because you want him leading off the bottom of the ninth and you have the lead in the top half, you're already beat. If you're going to lose in the ninth lose with your best defensive team out there.

Well I disagree.

I don't think planning to deal with what might be a worst case scenario - Sox lose the lead or even go down by a run or two and RF play has nothing to do with it - is the better play.

The Sox had more at bats coming to them and Quentin was due up. If this were a road game it's a different issue too, because there's no guarantee that you ever get more at bats, but in this case no matter what happened in the top of the ninth (save for the save), Quentin was going to get a chance to hit in the bottom half of the inning.

That is worth more than the small chance that Quentin's defense costs us a run that Jones would have prevented.

StillMissOzzie
08-14-2010, 10:22 PM
****!

I knew that all of those GIDPs were going to come back to haunt them. Two runs is hardly ever enough to win a game.

SMO
:angry:

GoGoCrede
08-14-2010, 10:22 PM
Everyone gave Edwin a huge round of applause. I'm glad our fans are so welcoming. I like this sign that some guy brought. Edwin saw it and smiled at him:

http://i597.photobucket.com/albums/tt60/letsgocrede/downsized_0814001801.jpg

WhiteSox5187
08-14-2010, 10:25 PM
Ozzie should have left Quentin in the game. If he doesn't trust Quentin enough to field the ninth then he should be the DH. Last time I checked, defense matters in the other eight innings as well.

With a lefty on the mound, he should have had A Jones hit for Teahen and he should have had Castro hit for AJ.

Omar runs the bases like he has **** for brains. He's now been thrown out six times trying to advance. And that's not even counting the four times he's been caught stealing.

It didn't matter today but hitting Alexei and Beckham 8/9 in this lineup is foolish. They've both been scorching hot for a month and a half now.

That was deliberate, he was trying to draw the throw from the OF so the run could score. I don't think he had any illusions as to whether or not that was a double, he knew it was a single but thought "Maybe the cutoff guy thinks they have a better chance at me than at the guy at home."

Nelfox02
08-14-2010, 10:27 PM
****!
Two runs is hardly ever enough to win a game.

SMO
:angry:


Wish the Twins had the same issue with their 2 run production tonight.....

GoGoCrede
08-14-2010, 10:36 PM
Re-reading this postgame thread - people really think we're finished? I know this was a bad loss, but really. We haven't even lost the series! Stay strong, everyone.

WhiteSox5187
08-14-2010, 10:38 PM
Re-reading this postgame thread - people really think we're finished? I know this was a bad loss, but really. We haven't even lost the series! Stay strong, everyone.

We're not finished but we're in a bad spot. Lots of pressure on Freddy to come through tomorrow, if he doesn't and we go into Minnesota 3 back, oooh boy. We're in trouble then.

guillensdisciple
08-14-2010, 10:41 PM
Re-reading this postgame thread - people really think we're finished? I know this was a bad loss, but really. We haven't even lost the series! Stay strong, everyone.

I wish you had your own feed so I can just follow your posts to keep my head up at all times. It gets hard to do so sometimes.

GoGoCrede
08-14-2010, 10:45 PM
I wish you had your own feed so I can just follow your posts to keep my head up at all times. It gets hard to do so sometimes.

Oh, I was pretty pissed after this game, believe me. Wanted to whack all the Detroit fans at the game with my bobblehead. :lol: But I always calm down on the long ride home, and by the time I log on here, I've got things in perspective. 2/3 is still feasible, and the season is far from over. I still believe we can do it. Scoff if you must, I don't care.

Quentin08
08-14-2010, 10:59 PM
I've pretty much calmed down too, and I'm trying to put things into perspective. Even if the Sox fall 3 or 4 games behind in the next few days, it's not time to panic. The Twin's schedule isn't exactly a cake walk. They play 4 games at Texas at the end of August, 3 more vs the Rangers in Minnesota at the beginning of September, and they have 6 more vs Detroit who always plays them tough. If we can somehow stay within a game going into that last series of the season vs Cleveland at the Cell, I like our chances. The Twins play Toronto, an above .500 team in a tough division. It's gonna be a heart thumping roller coaster ride the rest of the way.

Slappy
08-14-2010, 11:07 PM
Everyone gave Edwin a huge round of applause. I'm glad our fans are so welcoming. I like this sign that some guy brought. Edwin saw it and smiled at him:

http://i597.photobucket.com/albums/tt60/letsgocrede/downsized_0814001801.jpg

Now that right there. That warms the heart.

Viva Medias B's
08-14-2010, 11:10 PM
We'll beat the Twins in game 163. I'm not worried.

You do realize that if Game 163 does take place, it would probably do so at Target Field. Right?

GoGoCrede
08-14-2010, 11:10 PM
You do realize that if Game 163 does take place, it would probably do so at Target Field. Right?

Now there's a fly in the ointment.

Slappy
08-14-2010, 11:15 PM
You do realize that if Game 163 does take place, it would probably do so at Target Field. Right?

What are the Twins offensive stats at home? I thought I recalled that Morneau and Mauer were having a pretty hard time hitting balls out. Dunno about the rest of the team.

Craig Grebeck
08-14-2010, 11:21 PM
Alex Rios is begging to be moved down. Good grief. He's been a groundball machine since June.

Domeshot17
08-14-2010, 11:22 PM
I don't know, this is what this offense was built to do. We are far from done, But our pitchers literally have to be perfect every night. Plenty of closers come in somtimes and give up a run or 2. The difference being they sometimes have a cushion. Our pitchers work almost every night under the knowledge they may lose if they give up 3 or 4 runs.

Putz will bounce back, Edwin continues to look great, but its just disheartening when the bottom of the 9th rolls around, and you lead off with Jones and AJ. You might as well save the time and just let Alexei lead off with 2 outs. Those guys are virtually automatic outs every game.

Still plenty of baseball left, but if we miss the playoffs, it will be almost entirely due to the holes in the offense.

JermaineDye05
08-14-2010, 11:35 PM
You do realize that if Game 163 does take place, it would probably do so at Target Field. Right?

Then it will be that much sweeter when we clinch.

JB98
08-15-2010, 12:01 AM
Putz has had a couple of tough outings lately. That happens. I'm not concerned about him. What is concerning is that Putz and every other pitcher on this staff are given very little margin for error by this weak offense.

Jackson was impressive tonight. He's been a nice addition thus far. Too bad his effort went to waste.

Before the season, when people asked me what I thought of the Sox chances, I always said, "Championship-caliber pitching backed by a second-division offense." As mid-August arrives, I feel the same now as I did then.

I'm worried the lack of offense is going to ruin this season. That would be unfortunate, because I think this White Sox team could be very dangerous in a short playoff series with this starting pitching.

canOcorn
08-15-2010, 12:13 AM
Alex Rios is begging to be moved down. Good grief. He's been a groundball machine since June.

He might be begging to be moved down, but who are you going to move up? Alexei and Beckham shouldn't be batting 8-9, but the rest all suck now too. The entire team has been completely shut down by a slew of horrible pitchers over the last 10 days.

Nellie_Fox
08-15-2010, 12:33 AM
...management didn't want to go out and get a bat or two at the deadline, so we're stuck with this garbage.How do you know what they did or did not try to do? KW give you a call? And I ask again, who did you want them to get that they didn't try to get, and what were you willing to give up to get it? I keep asking this, and getting no answer. Were you willing to give up Beckham for a rental? Because that's what was being reported that everybody was asking for. Some of you make it sound like it is so easy, just "go get a bat."

Foulke You
08-15-2010, 12:36 AM
Alex Rios is begging to be moved down. Good grief. He's been a groundball machine since June.
Rios has been one of the more steady offensive players on the Sox since April. He has finally hit his worst slump of the season in the past 2 weeks but it was probably long overdue. I wouldn't panic and pull him out of the 3 hole yet especially since we don't have a better option. Alex's problem lately has been that he is trying to pull just about everything and rolling over on a lot of pitches out of the zone. Of course, the same could be said about a lot of our hitters right now with the exception of Beckham.

slavko
08-15-2010, 12:51 AM
No offense, no confidence in any closer, mine in Putz was premature, no fun. Where to turn? Don't know. Going to be tough closing this season out without a turnaround. Still possible, tho.

canOcorn
08-15-2010, 12:51 AM
How do you know what they did or did not try to do? KW give you a call? And I ask again, who did you want them to get that they didn't try to get, and what were you willing to give up to get it? I keep asking this, and getting no answer. Were you willing to give up Beckham for a rental? Because that's what was being reported that everybody was asking for. Some of you make it sound like it is so easy, just "go get a bat."

I agree with your whole statement and the only reason I quote it is because of KW's and some of this boards statements.

They would fix the DH situation if it wasn't working, was the response of KW and some of this board ate it up. They didn't fix it and it's costing us the division and possibly more at this point.

Craig Grebeck
08-15-2010, 12:54 AM
Rios has been one of the more steady offensive players on the Sox since April. He has finally hit his worst slump of the season in the past 2 weeks but it was probably long overdue. I wouldn't panic and pull him out of the 3 hole yet especially since we don't have a better option. Alex's problem lately has been that he is trying to pull just about everything and rolling over on a lot of pitches out of the zone. Of course, the same could be said about a lot of our hitters right now with the exception of Beckham.
Rios' OPS by month: .796, 1.106, .760, .735, .621

Something isn't right.

Pierre
Vizquel
Konerko
Quentin
Rios
Teahen
Ramirez
Pierzynski
Beckham

canOcorn
08-15-2010, 01:01 AM
Rios' OPS by month: .796, 1.106, .760, .735, .621

Something isn't right.

Pierre
Vizquel
Konerko
Quentin
Rios
Teahen
Ramirez
Pierzynski
Beckham


Sorry, cannot have 3-5 be all righties, lest they bring in a RH reliever. /ozzie

:wink:

Foulke You
08-15-2010, 01:22 AM
Rios' OPS by month: .796, 1.106, .760, .735, .621

Something isn't right.

Pierre
Vizquel
Konerko
Quentin
Rios
Teahen
Ramirez
Pierzynski
Beckham
The power might have dropped from May but there was still solid run production there in June and July. I honestly think that Alex's May OPS production was more of an aberration. Rios hasn't been a prolific power hitter in his career but has usually been a good hitter overall in the 15-20HR range.

Alex Rios by Month:

April- .277 BA, 23 hits, 3HR, 9RBI
May- .344 BA, 31 hits, 8HR, 18RBI
June- .297 BA, 30 hits, 2HR, 15 RBI
July- .293 BA, 29 hits, 3HR, 18 RBI
August- .245 BA, 12 hits, 1HR, 6RBI

The real drop in offensive production came in August and not July. In every other month, he hit close to .300 and had solid RBI production. Alex has a couple more weeks to get those numbers up and hopefully, he'll figure it out soon. I still maintain that the last 2 weeks is the first real slump we've seen out of Alex all season.

TheOldRoman
08-15-2010, 01:42 AM
I guess our hitters were trying too hard again tonight. All I know is that, once the weather heats up, we're gonna be hittin' real good. Oh, yeah. Maybe it was too humid so they couldn't hit the ball well... or something like that. I guess you just have to tip your cap.

On a side note, where are all the morons who came on here and cursed about Jenks for blowing (or sometimes nearly blowing) games? Putz has lost two games in the last 6 days. Why aren't these people posting "**** you Putz!"? Where are the insults? Doesn't he deserve the same "rational" treatment? If Bobby would have lost these two games by giving up homers to ****ing garbage hitters people would be calling for him to be cut and he would be up to 400 pounds by now.

Crooked Number
08-15-2010, 02:41 AM
Great day to be at the ball park, picturesque weather with a wonderful breeze off the lake. Jackson pitched out of jam after jam, and had a really cool streak of striking out a batter to end each inning (i think for the first 5 innings in a row?). He had runners on in almost every inning, but the stuff he was featuring was electric. Another quality start for Edwin, very impressive thus far.

Great crowd of 36,500 on hand, and much to my chagrin way to many tiger fans for being 10+ back in the standings. Speaking of, when Putz gave up the go ahead hr in the 9th, a tiger fan behind me (who had a sox fan girlfriend...dont ask) got into my face and started talking ridiculous smack. I had a quick "True Lies" moment where I flash forwarded in the future like Schwarzenegger did when he smashes Bill Paxton's character in the face. I thought better of it, and represented the Sox fan base proudly by Rising Above, like the stickers say on the back of the seats.

At no time did i think JJ was going to blow it, i was in complete disbelief. Once again the Sox let a guy like Porcello off the hook, when we should have had at the very least 4 runs off him. Phil Coke? Really? Tigers dont even have a closer. Leyland had him pitch the 8th and the 9th. Another one slips away.

Plenty of baseball left, I am enjoying the pennant race. If they don't win the division, it will be because they beat themselves. Sox have the upper hand with our stellar starting staff. This will be going down to the wire, looking forward to the series next week at Target Field. Lets kick some ass!

Rdy2PlayBall
08-15-2010, 02:49 AM
2 out... and so many people are acting like the Sox are done for the season. We could be back to 1 game out in... ONE ****ING DAY. Seriously, picking up a game here and a game there is so easily done, yet... somehow, the Sox suck, White Sox baseball "isn't fun to watch"... This bipolar-ness of some of the members here is getting annoying. When positive attitude only lasts one game, and the negative attitude lasts a week, it should be trolling IMO.

pudge
08-15-2010, 02:57 AM
The White Sox should have won this game. They scraped for a 2-1 lead, and when you take a 2-1 lead in the eighth at home, you should win. Thornton got through Cabrera part of the lineup, which was more threatening, especially after the leadoff double, and they might have won if Jenks had been available to close.


I have so many problems with this paragraph, I don't even know where to begin. Really, Jenks would have locked this down? Cause he hasn't blown anything this season? And why is a 2-1 lead an automatic in our home ballpark? If anything, the potential for a cheap home run is far more possible in our very own park, and that home run was pretty cheap. I don't blame the bullpen or Putz for this one, I blame the continual loss of opportunities to push freakin' runs across the plate.

BadBobbyJenks
08-15-2010, 03:39 AM
J.J looked kind of pudgy no?

Thank god we don't have Bobby Jenks closing AMIRITE?

kufram
08-15-2010, 06:34 AM
I stayed up watching the game until 3:00 am GMT and thought we had it won in the ninth. Not a good way to lose, but a loss is just a loss. All of the games are big now.

Like it or not we have a streaky offense. We've been on a bad streak and I'm hopeful that a hot streak is coming. As long as the starters keep doing what they've been doing we have a good chance.

The Twins are as hot as anybody and we're still just 2 back with an elimination number of 44 and 41 for the WC. Don't jump ship yet!

Chez
08-15-2010, 07:46 AM
Another tough loss. Bottom line is that we have to beat the Twins head-to-head. If we can't, we likely won't win the division (and don't deserve to).

FarWestChicago
08-15-2010, 08:15 AM
On a side note, where are all the morons who came on here and cursed about Jenks for blowing (or sometimes nearly blowing) games? Putz has lost two games in the last 6 days. Why aren't these people posting "**** you Putz!"? Where are the insults? Doesn't he deserve the same "rational" treatment? If Bobby would have lost these two games by giving up homers to ****ing garbage hitters people would be calling for him to be cut and he would be up to 400 pounds by now.*crickets chirping*

J.J looked kind of pudgy no?

Thank god we don't have Bobby Jenks closing AMIRITE?*tumbleweeds*

...no confidence in any closer, mine in Putz was premature...It's not every day you see somebody in a post game thread who isn't a complete hypocrite. Well done, sir. :tiphat:

hawkjt
08-15-2010, 08:41 AM
It seems like shortly after Putz's scoreless streak ended, he came out one nite and was high in the zone or out of the zone, and has been ever since. Is this fatigue,or a mechanical issue? Same thing last nite.

Long way to go, just go out and win the series tomorrow,then get a day of rest and go into Minny and win that series. Do that, and at worst the Sox are one back.

Twins have been the hottest team in baseball since the All Star break,and the Sox have cooled a bit...still, the Twins will cool at some point and the Sox will heat back up...hang tough,Soxfans.

happydude
08-15-2010, 08:52 AM
Alex Rios is begging to be moved down. Good grief. He's been a groundball machine since June.

There's much we don't know about Alex Rios. Is he simply in a slump that he will soon emerge from? Or is he the type of guy that performs poorly when the stakes are high? The way he's swinging the bat now is reminiscent of the way he swung the bat last year after he was acquired to, essentially, boost us past our competitors and into the playoffs.

I can't recall Toronto ever being in the thick of things in the latter months of the season and I'm hesitant to put much stock into last year because he had just changed teams. Obviously, we're all hoping its just a mini slump and not a developing pattern.

Putz has had a couple of tough outings lately. That happens. I'm not concerned about him. What is concerning is that Putz and every other pitcher on this staff are given very little margin for error by this weak offense.

Jackson was impressive tonight. He's been a nice addition thus far. Too bad his effort went to waste.

Before the season, when people asked me what I thought of the Sox chances, I always said, "Championship-caliber pitching backed by a second-division offense." As mid-August arrives, I feel the same now as I did then.

I'm worried the lack of offense is going to ruin this season. That would be unfortunate, because I think this White Sox team could be very dangerous in a short playoff series with this starting pitching.

No doubt. As his streak of innings without allowing a run came to a close you could see that he was beginning to leave more and more pitches up in the zone. That pitch to Avila looked like a splitter that started too high..way too high.

Hartman
08-15-2010, 08:58 AM
My god, the folks clamoring for Jenks have no creditability left

Craig Grebeck
08-15-2010, 09:03 AM
My hatred of Bobby Jenks comes from his acting like a complete jackhole in postgame interviews, questioning why the fans question him.

happydude
08-15-2010, 09:04 AM
No offense, in no confidence in any closer, mine Putz was premature, no fun. Where to turn? Don't know. Going to be tough closing this season out without a turnaround. Still possible, tho.

While Jenks' outings of late, and over the last few years to a certain extent, are often maddening the bottom line is that lockdown closers are rare. Without a virtually unhittable pitch, like Rivera's cutter, or overwhelming heat and location, its often a crapshoot. And each failure is magnified by the fact that it snatches defeat from the jaws of victory; its much, much worse when wins are at a premium, like now.

happydude
08-15-2010, 09:15 AM
My god, the folks clamoring for Jenks have no creditability left

By not ripping Putz? I'd have to respectfully disagree. Bobby has struggled at various times over the last several years; it was only natural that fans would tire of the constant nerve racking 9th innings and demand a less stressful option.

Putz hasn't been here long enough to wear on anyone's nerves and didn't come here to close games; he was simply a guy folks pointed to when Bobby struggled, just like Thornton.

After Putz's last couple outings it may be that Bobby's critics realize that we don't have a better option than Bobby to close and that, most likely, he'll be closing again very soon. If thats the case, there's no real motivation to demand Putz's head on a platter.

soltrain21
08-15-2010, 09:16 AM
My hatred of Bobby Jenks comes from his acting like a complete jackhole in postgame interviews, questioning why the fans question him.

I just can't get past his facial hair.

BringHomeDaBacon
08-15-2010, 09:20 AM
Move Beckham and Ramirez to the top of the lineup. It's foolish to have them at the bottom hitting in front of two hitters that can't hit the ball further than 200 feet.

FarWestChicago
08-15-2010, 09:26 AM
My god, the folks clamoring for Jenks have no creditability leftNor do the folks clamoring for anybody but Jenks. :wink:

Craig Grebeck
08-15-2010, 09:27 AM
Nor do the folks clamoring for anybody but Jenks. :wink:
I don't think anyone has ever clamored for "anybody but Jenks."

FarWestChicago
08-15-2010, 09:35 AM
I don't think anyone has ever clamored for "anybody but Jenks.":o: Wow, I thought you spent a lot of time here. You're obviously new.

:welcome:

Craig Grebeck
08-15-2010, 09:37 AM
:o: Wow, I thought you spent a lot of time here. You're obviously new.

:welcome:
Welp, this is pointless.

I think people have wanted to see Jenks punished for being such an awful pitcher this season. Again, it's not irrational to think he's been terrible, or to want Ozzie to give Putz or Thornton a chance.

Quentin08
08-15-2010, 09:39 AM
Great day to be at the ball park, picturesque weather with a wonderful breeze off the lake. Jackson pitched out of jam after jam, and had a really cool streak of striking out a batter to end each inning (i think for the first 5 innings in a row?). He had runners on in almost every inning, but the stuff he was featuring was electric. Another quality start for Edwin, very impressive thus far.

Great crowd of 36,500 on hand, and much to my chagrin way to many tiger fans for being 10+ back in the standings. Speaking of, when Putz gave up the go ahead hr in the 9th, a tiger fan behind me (who had a sox fan girlfriend...dont ask) got into my face and started talking ridiculous smack. I had a quick "True Lies" moment where I flash forwarded in the future like Schwarzenegger did when he smashes Bill Paxton's character in the face. I thought better of it, and represented the Sox fan base proudly by Rising Above, like the stickers say on the back of the seats.

At no time did i think JJ was going to blow it, i was in complete disbelief. Once again the Sox let a guy like Porcello off the hook, when we should have had at the very least 4 runs off him. Phil Coke? Really? Tigers dont even have a closer. Leyland had him pitch the 8th and the 9th. Another one slips away.

Plenty of baseball left, I am enjoying the pennant race. If they don't win the division, it will be because they beat themselves. Sox have the upper hand with our stellar starting staff. This will be going down to the wire, looking forward to the series next week at Target Field. Lets kick some ass!

That's nothing compared to what we'll see during the 4-game series vs Boston, the 2nd to last series of the season. I talked to a ticket rep/friend who said as of right now only 20K tickets have been sold for each of those games. If the games are not potential division clinchers, I don't expect many Sox fans to show up, considering it's in September and it's a "premier" series (way too expensive). I think at the last minute, Red Sawx nation will snatch up the tickets in full force. Annoying factor equal to that of the crosstown series.

FarWestChicago
08-15-2010, 09:45 AM
Welp, this is pointless.I apologize for not thinking you have an IQ of 220. :D:

happydude
08-15-2010, 10:18 AM
Move Beckham and Ramirez to the top of the lineup. It's foolish to have them at the bottom hitting in front of two hitters that can't hit the ball further than 200 feet.

I don't know what the solution to this problem is but I mostly agree with your general premise. Ive noticed more than a few times the very bottom of the order has gotten into scoring position with less than 2 outs only to be stranded there. There are two problems with that situation when Juan is at the plate.

For one, he doesn't seem to be able to hit the ball high and far enough to get anyone but the swiftest runner in from third on a sac fly. Secondly, this same lack of power brings the outfielders in, thereby shortening the field enough to prevent a runner scoring from second on a hit.

kufram
08-15-2010, 10:23 AM
When guy like Rios, who has hit well all year, goes into a slump sometimes a manager needs to stick with them. If you start bouncing guys up and down the line-up depending on how they hit for a couple of weeks you can cause more damage than just letting them swing through it.

The same applies to Beckham. He's been in the 9 spot for awhile and it is not a bad place to have him. All managers juggle line-ups all of the time but more with matchups in mind than punishment/rewards for their hitting. If a manager doesn't believe a hitter is bringing the team enough and isn't going to bring enough in the future than he needs to come out of the line-up. AJ is a good example, he's bringing very little with the bat this year (I reckon contract issues are why) but he is your starting catcher and handling a superior pitching staff. You can't take his bat out of the line-up because he brings other things to the team that you don't want to hand over to Ramon even though Ramon looks like a better hitter this year.

captain54
08-15-2010, 10:29 AM
Nor do the folks clamoring for anybody but Jenks. :wink:

Jenks and Putz both, are obviously not capable of getting the job done on a consistent basis...There, how's that?

BringHomeDaBacon
08-15-2010, 10:50 AM
He's been in the 9 spot for awhile and it is not a bad place to have him.

It's a horrible place to have him now that he's swinging a hot bat. He's not in the best position to produce runs and when the lineup turns over at the end of the game he's last in line to get a fifth at bat. He should be hitting in close proximity to Rios/Konerko/Quentin. Today he's hitting BEHIND Castro, Kotsay and Jones.

kufram
08-15-2010, 11:09 AM
It's a horrible place to have him now that he's swinging a hot bat. He's not in the best position to produce runs and when the lineup turns over at the end of the game he's last in line to get a fifth at bat. He should be hitting in close proximity to Rios/Konerko/Quentin. Today he's hitting BEHIND Castro, Kotsay and Jones.

And how long did it take him to swing a hot bat? A lot people wanted him in Charlotte. Move him up and he might fell pressure to produce and go right back to where he was. I see your point and might move him myself at some point but I can see the reason for keeping him where he is too. I like a good hitter in the 9 spot.

BringHomeDaBacon
08-15-2010, 11:19 AM
And how long did it take him to swing a hot bat? A lot people wanted him in Charlotte. Move him up and he might fell pressure to produce and go right back to where he was. I see your point and might move him myself at some point but I can see the reason for keeping him where he is too. I like a good hitter in the 9 spot.

The strategy of having one of your best hitters bat last is truly groundbreaking.

kufram
08-15-2010, 11:29 AM
The strategy of having one of your best hitters bat last is truly groundbreaking.

Well, the strategy by some on wsi is if it isn't working right now, change it... and if it is working right now, change it. Beckham has 19 rbis in 28 games or something like that so it isn't like he's not been producing where he is. He's been one of our best hitters for a few weeks, not a few months.

BringHomeDaBacon
08-15-2010, 11:43 AM
Well, the strategy by some on wsi is if it isn't working right now, change it... and if it is working right now, change it. Beckham has 19 rbis in 28 games or something like that so it isn't like he's not been producing where he is. He's been one of our best hitters for a few weeks, not a few months.

19 RBIs in 28 games proves that he has been scorching hot, it doesn't somehow prove that ninth is the most efficient place for him to hit. There's no denying he had a terrible start to the season but other than Konerko, Rios, Ramirez and maybe Quentin, I don't know who you think is a better hitter.

kufram
08-15-2010, 12:26 PM
19 RBIs in 28 games proves that he has been scorching hot, it doesn't somehow prove that ninth is the most efficient place for him to hit. There's no denying he had a terrible start to the season but other than Konerko, Rios, Ramirez and maybe Quentin, I don't know who you think is a better hitter.

For my money all of the above are arguably better hitters because they've had it going for much longer producing much more, including TCQ because of his RBIs.

I'm done with this now because I've said I can see your point. You seem unable to see mine. That is just that I can see a reason to keep him where he is rather than risk putting the pressure on him to suddenly have to carry the team. It could have the reverse effect. But, hey, you clearly know better.

BringHomeDaBacon
08-15-2010, 12:30 PM
For my money all of the above are arguably better hitters because they've had it going for much longer producing much more, including TCQ because of his RBIs.

I'm done with this now because I've said I can see your point. You seem unable to see mine. That is just that I can see a reason to keep him where he is rather than risk putting the pressure on him to suddenly have to carry the team. It could have the reverse effect. But, hey, you clearly know better.

I see your point too. I guess what I'm saying it's worth the risk and given the makeup of the lineup (especially with Rios slumping), it's a risk I think Ozzie has to take.

voodoochile
08-15-2010, 01:05 PM
Here's the deal...

I know this is hard to believe...

Closers...

Sometimes....

Blow...

Saves...

It happens to every team. Sometimes those games are crucial ones against division foes that cause them to lose ground in the pennant race late in the year. Even when that's not the case it ALWAYS sucks to have it happen and it's ALWAYS a cause for Armageddon in the post game thread here at WSI. The Sox have what 5 blown saves in the 9th this year and they've won 2 of those games? I wonder how that stacks up against the league. Putz's sample size isn't big enough to say he can't do it. Jenks' back is acting up so at the moment he can't.

Anyone celebrating Putz failing because it somehow proves the people who yelled about Jenks were wrong is no better than the darkest of dark clouds pointing at the Sox failures this past week and saying "told you so - Sox suck" while you can practically read them nodding in grim satisfaction behind their computer screen.

The Sox lost. They are two games back. There are 45+ to play. Go get 'em tomorrow... er... today in about 5 minutes...

FarWestChicago
08-15-2010, 01:14 PM
Here's the deal...

I know this is hard to believe...

Closers...

Sometimes....

Blow...

Saves...This only happens to teams with horrible GM's, terrible managers and mentally weak players.

pudge
08-15-2010, 01:22 PM
Nor do the folks clamoring for anybody but Jenks. :wink:

When Putz was going great, was the perfect time to use him to close. My argument against Jenks is that there should be no "closer". Go with who is in shape, on a roll, best matchup, whatever the heck you have to do to win. I'm not wavering from that belief.

UofCSoxFan
08-15-2010, 02:15 PM
The White Sox scored 2 runs yesterday. That gives your pitching staff no room for error. Yes, when you have the lead in the ninth you should win but if the Sox hit like they should have, Putz giving up the home run wouldn't have been an issue.

We should win every game we hold the opposition to 3 runs or less....we've been losing way too many lately.

captain54
08-15-2010, 03:10 PM
This only happens to teams with horrible GM's, terrible managers and mentally weak players.

Jenks has the highest ERA of almost all closers in MLB...almost 5.00...his ineffectiveness goes beyond blown saves....the people that complain about Jenks have a legitimate reason to.

voodoochile
08-15-2010, 09:38 PM
Jenks has the highest ERA of almost all closers in MLB...almost 5.00...his ineffectiveness goes beyond blown saves....the people that complain about Jenks have a legitimate reason to.

Sort of and sort of not... His ERA is symptomatic of his struggles this year, but in the end he has pitched almost exclusively as the final pitcher of the game with the Sox in the lead. So long as he finishes that final inning with the Sox still in the lead he has done his job, the rest is for ****s and giggles. And it doesn't really matter if some fans are a bit more stressed because he has allowed more runners and runs than they would like.

Now yeah, he's blown more saves than I would like, so that's a topic I believe has a valid reason to be discussed, but so long as he is the closer it's the only stat that matters, IMO.