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View Full Version : Viciedo sent down, Teahen to be activated


Sockinchisox
08-12-2010, 10:47 PM
http://twitter.com/MDGonzales/status/21032396885

thomas35forever
08-12-2010, 10:49 PM
Goddamn it. Why couldn't it be Lillibridge?

soltrain21
08-12-2010, 10:50 PM
Goddamn it. Why couldn't it be Lillibridge?

Because KW and Ozzie value life.

WhiteSox5187
08-12-2010, 10:51 PM
Goddamn it. Why couldn't it be Lillibridge?

I guess the thought is Lillibridge can be a defensive replacement where as Vicideo can't? I'm not sure. It was going to be one of those two anyways and I figure Vicideo needs more consistent ABs than Lillibridge.

sox1970
08-12-2010, 10:51 PM
It's a good move. I can't be the only one that thinks Viciedo is far from being a good major league player.

Noneck
08-12-2010, 10:52 PM
I can't be the only one that thinks Viciedo is far from being a good major league player.

No you are not the only one.

JB98
08-12-2010, 10:52 PM
Goddamn it. Why couldn't it be Lillibridge?

Need a guy who can play multiple spots defensively. Need a guy who can pinch-run.

Lillibridge is more useful in a part-time role than Viciedo.

Viciedo could use more regular ABs. He could help this team as a hitter off the bench in September.

I agree with the move.

Frater Perdurabo
08-12-2010, 10:54 PM
Teahen sucks at 3B but he takes walks and was heating up when he got hurt.

I will be pissed if Ozzie starts playing him at 3B and continues to have Kotsay DH.

If Kotsay is so valuable for chemistry, DL him with an ingrown toenail or have him wear Southpaw's costume.

SoxSpeed22
08-12-2010, 10:56 PM
Viciedo showed us that he has plenty of potential. He also showed that he still has a lot of work to do. Teahen has been crushing the ball in Charlotte so let's hope he does the same in Chicago.

CWSpalehoseCWS
08-12-2010, 10:56 PM
I guess that's the best move. Viciedo belongs playing everyday at his age, and needs to learn how to take a walk still. I'd rather Kotsay get DFA, but Ozzie's love for him is too much. Glad to have Teahen back. Not the greatest but at least he can get on base more often than Kotsay. That's if he gets to play.

WhiteSox5187
08-12-2010, 10:58 PM
Teahen sucks at 3B but he takes walks and was heating up when he got hurt.

I will be pissed if Ozzie starts playing him at 3B and continues to have Kotsay DH.

If Kotsay is so valuable for chemistry, DL him with an ingrown toenail or have him wear Southpaw's costume.

Ozzie has said that Vizquel is going to be the starting third baseman for the most part. Teahen will give him a rest every now and then. I think this will lead to us seeing a lot less of Kotsay. I also think Quentin starts DHing a lot more.

soltrain21
08-12-2010, 10:58 PM
He better dh while Omar handles third.

WhiteSox5187
08-12-2010, 11:00 PM
He better dh while Omar handles third.

Again, I think he's going to be in RF while Quentin DHs.

soltrain21
08-12-2010, 11:01 PM
Again, I think he's going to be in RF while Quentin DHs.

That's also acceptable.

Lip Man 1
08-12-2010, 11:03 PM
Jenks apparently also had back spasms again tonight on the mound.

Lip

VMSNS
08-12-2010, 11:37 PM
Goddamn it. Why couldn't it be Lillibridge?

Because Lillibridge is a good pinch runner and can play multiple infield positions pretty decently. Viciedo, although he has tons of potential, has a horrible approach at the plate right now, and either strikes out or flies out after three pitches. Don't get me wrong, I like the kid a lot, but he desperately needs to spend time with a hitting coach if he ever wants to be an effective ML hitter.

CHISOXFAN13
08-12-2010, 11:40 PM
Goddamn it. Why couldn't it be Lillibridge?

What have you been watching?

People fall in love with potential too much here. Dayan playing twice a week here is pointless, particularly when he hasn't had a hit in 10 days.

Viciedo goes 1 for 15 and is a God. Kotsay goes 4 for 15 and Ozzie should be shot. Strange.

doublem23
08-12-2010, 11:51 PM
Viciedo goes 1 for 15 and is a God. Kotsay goes 4 for 15 and Ozzie should be shot. Strange.

I think it's because we realize Kotsay is a road to nowhere, while Viciedo has a lot of potential.

There was a time Viciedo was on a roll and wasn't getting any PT... At least in Charlotte he can play everyday.

From July 5-July 31 (12 G in 28 days), Dayan hit .390/.390/.683, yes, that OPS is 1.073.

He's got the talent to be a Major League, let's see if he can put it together upstairs.

DumpJerry
08-13-2010, 12:59 AM
Viciedo has potential. However, he has some big holes in his swing which the league has found. He needs time in AAA to fill those holes where he won't cause any harm. Also, he needs better discipline at the Plate. Someone needs to tell him it is ok to draw a walk now and then.

He was a pitcher out of the Bullpen in Cuba. Maybe we should have him pitch, since he is so adverse to walks.

Nellie_Fox
08-13-2010, 01:09 AM
Viciedo has potential. However, he has some big holes in his swing which the league has found. He needs time in AAA to fill those holes where he won't cause any harm. Also, he needs better discipline at the Plate. Someone needs to tell him it is ok to draw a walk now and then.

He was a pitcher out of the Bullpen in Cuba. Maybe we should have him pitch, since he is so adverse to walks.It's not just holes in his swing, it's that he'll swing at anything. Being unable to hit a eye-high fastball or a slider a foot outside is not a hole in the swing; it's lack of plate discipline.

harwar
08-13-2010, 07:17 AM
Mark Teahen hit 34 doubles last year so i'm hoping to see a few from him starting right now, since it appears that he is going to be the left-handed bat we acquire for the run to the end .. i don't want to see Viciedo until next year .. that guy was totally lost

LITTLE NELL
08-13-2010, 07:21 AM
Viciedo is the right choice to be sent down. The Sox have a bad habit of rushing prospects up to the big club. What the hell is Sale doing up here already. Sale should be racking up innings on a regular basis down in Charlotte, instead he's pitched 2 innings since he's been here. Same with Viciedo, Ozzie hardly used him when he first came up and he still has been only used on a limited basis instead of getting his 4 ABs every night and gaining experience. Maybe someone in the minors can teach him that its OK to take a walk once in awhile.

DumpJerry
08-13-2010, 07:21 AM
It's not just holes in his swing, it's that he'll swing at anything. Being unable to hit a eye-high fastball or a slider a foot outside is not a hole in the swing; it's lack of plate discipline.
While watching him at the game last night, I was remarking that Alexei used to swing at pitches which were over the Left Handed Batter's Box his rookie year, but now has settled down and show much improved discipline. I'm wondering if they don't concentrate on skills in Cuba as much as just using raw talent.

doublem23
08-13-2010, 07:56 AM
While watching him at the game last night, I was remarking that Alexei used to swing at pitches which were over the Left Handed Batter's Box his rookie year, but now has settled down and show much improved discipline. I'm wondering if they don't concentrate on skills in Cuba as much as just using raw talent.

Of course they don't because the talent level in the Cuban Leagues is so below what it is here, a guy like Viciedo can be a superstar there even with his knack for swinging at everything, there's just no team with 10 pitchers with the kind of command not to leave something in his wheelhouse.

Over By There
08-13-2010, 07:59 AM
Merkin has made a big deal on his Twitter about Viciedo not drawing a single base on balls since he arrived on the south side. I don't think that in and of itself is the end of the world, but I do think Viciedo could use some more regular ABs in AAA. He's going to be a good one, though.

KenBerryGrab
08-13-2010, 08:06 AM
When he went 3-0 with the bases loaded, that might have been a good time for walk No. 1.

cws05champ
08-13-2010, 08:08 AM
It's not just holes in his swing, it's that he'll swing at anything. Being unable to hit a eye-high fastball or a slider a foot outside is not a hole in the swing; it's lack of plate discipline.
Which is why, despite his potential, they should have traded Viciedo instead of Hudson.

WhiteSox1989
08-13-2010, 08:09 AM
When he went 3-0 with the bases loaded, that might have been a good time for walk No. 1.
That was probably the most maddening at bat I've ever seen from him.

doublem23
08-13-2010, 08:11 AM
Which is why, despite his potential, they should have traded Viciedo instead of Hudson.

Absolutely not, Viciedo's ceiling it 10x what Hudson's is. Hudson's the "safe" pick, but Dayan has legit superstar potential, if he could harness his abilities. The guy is 21 and at times looked exceptional in the Majors. I think people are giving up on him because he didn't carry this lineup on his back for 2 months.

Hudson blows, the only thing nice about him was that he offered some payroll flexibility and was a nice back-of-the rotation option for the immediate future, but watching Sale pitch last night, I think he would have ultimately passed Dan in the not to distant future.

doublem23
08-13-2010, 08:12 AM
That was probably the most maddening at bat I've ever seen from him.

You can't get mad at a guy for turning on a pitch he could hit. He missed that grand slam because he hit it to the deepest part of the park. 5 feet back, 5 feet to the left or right... It's a goner.

Craig Grebeck
08-13-2010, 08:16 AM
Absolutely not, Viciedo's ceiling it 10x what Hudson's is. Hudson's the "safe" pick, but Dayan has legit superstar potential, if he could harness his abilities. The guy is 21 and at times looked exceptional in the Majors. I think people are giving up on him because he didn't carry this lineup on his back for 2 months.

Hudson blows, the only thing nice about him was that he offered some payroll flexibility and was a nice back-of-the rotation option for the immediate future, but watching Sale pitch last night, I think he would have ultimately passed Dan in the not to distant future.
1. Considering Dayan is going to be a first baseman or a left fielder (unlikely), he better learn some plate discipline. In no way does he have "superstar potential." Remember how awesome Ryan Braun looked when he came up? You've got to learn to control the zone, and you've got to hit the **** out of the ball if you're going to play first. Konerko's been our franchise for almost a decade (on the position player side) and around the league he's not considered anything resembling a superstar.
2. Hudson does not blow. Your hyperbolic arguments about former Sox prospects are absurd. You said Gio's been terrible this year -- which is, well, laughable -- and now you are taking it out on Hudson. Also, I'm glad Sale looked good. I'm really happy. You know what would have been fun? A 2012 rotation with Sale AND Hudson in it; two cost-controlled, quality starting pitcher. Instead, we're stuck with the following: Jackson for one year, Kotsay/Teahen/Jones at DH.

doublem23
08-13-2010, 08:19 AM
1. Considering Dayan is going to be a first baseman or a left fielder (unlikely), he better learn some plate discipline. In no way does he have "superstar potential." Remember how awesome Ryan Braun looked when he came up? You've got to learn to control the zone, and you've got to hit the **** out of the ball if you're going to play first. Konerko's been our franchise for almost a decade (on the position player side) and around the league he's not considered anything resembling a superstar.
2. Hudson does not blow. Your hyperbolic arguments about former Sox prospects are absurd. You said Gio's been terrible this year -- which is, well, laughable -- and now you are taking it out on Hudson. Also, I'm glad Sale looked good. I'm really happy. You know what would have been fun? A 2012 rotation with Sale AND Hudson in it; two cost-controlled, quality starting pitcher. Instead, we're stuck with the following: Jackson for one year, Kotsay/Teahen/Jones at DH.

News Flash: Dan Hudson sucks.

Being cheap =/= Being good. We're not the ****ing A's. You don't get awards for wins/dollars spent

Craig Grebeck
08-13-2010, 08:21 AM
News Flash: Dan Hudson sucks.

Being cheap =/= Being good. We're not the ****ing A's.
Just like Gio Gonzalez. And Ryan Sweeney. And any other player the White Sox have ever given up. I know, I know, it's your shtick. Dan Hudson has been phenomenal for the Diamondbacks. Perhaps you haven't been paying any attention.

You're right. We're not the ****ing A's.

Also, other than bat speed, what is impressive about Viciedo? He seems unwilling to alter his approach, and will keep swinging at everything.

soxfanreggie
08-13-2010, 08:22 AM
Teahen sucks at 3B but he takes walks and was heating up when he got hurt.

Out of anything, wouldn't you think an injury would be something just as likely to cool someone off? Most guys can't return just as they were after being out of the Majors for two months.

TomBradley72
08-13-2010, 08:24 AM
Everyone seems to forget how young this kid is...21 years old...he could spend 2 additional seasons in AAA, and still only be 23 when he's called up.

I think he'll be real star...very raw in the field...but I think he'll develop into an adequate defender if he works at it.

I'd still rather have him on the roster than Teahen AND Kotsay...they are completely redundant players...still like Dayan vs. lefties over having both of those players on the roster.

Between this move + Jones' back issues + Jenks' back issues this is a pretty thin roster for the final push of the pennant race.

TomBradley72
08-13-2010, 08:25 AM
Also, other than bat speed, what is impressive about Viciedo? He seems unwilling to alter his approach, and will keep swinging at everything.

21 year old kid...8 weeks into his major league career...he'll make adjustments over time...the ball jumps off his bat.

UofCSoxFan
08-13-2010, 08:28 AM
Just like Gio Gonzalez. And Ryan Sweeney. And any other player the White Sox have ever given up. I know, I know, it's your shtick. Dan Hudson has been phenomenal for the Diamondbacks. Perhaps you haven't been paying any attention.

You're right. We're not the ****ing A's.

Also, other than bat speed, what is impressive about Viciedo? He seems unwilling to alter his approach, and will keep swinging at everything.

Why do people insist on bringing up Ryan Sweeney as an example of a bad trade or a prospect we should have kept? Maybe we didn't get enough in return for him but he's a corner OF with no power. He's not good.

Craig Grebeck
08-13-2010, 08:28 AM
21 year old kid...8 weeks into his major league career...he'll make adjustments over time...the ball jumps off his bat.
So the ball jumps off his bat. In other words, his bat speed. Anything else? I'm just not wild about guys who can't field their position.

BringHomeDaBacon
08-13-2010, 08:30 AM
In case anyone hasn't noticed, even when making outs this kid hits the ball HARD.

Kotsay hits a line drive at somebody every third game and there's whining and moaning about how "unlucky" he his.

What a joke.

doublem23
08-13-2010, 08:31 AM
Just like Gio Gonzalez. And Ryan Sweeney. And any other player the White Sox have ever given up. I know, I know, it's your shtick. Dan Hudson has been phenomenal for the Diamondbacks. Perhaps you haven't been paying any attention.

You're right. We're not the ****ing A's.

Also, other than bat speed, what is impressive about Viciedo? He seems unwilling to alter his approach, and will keep swinging at everything.

Are you ****ing kidding me? Three starts. THREE STARTS?

Sweeney is a nothing, you know that, we could be realistically playing Kotsay, Vizquel, Jones, and Pierre on the 4 corners, we're not in any need of any more light-hitting corner OF. He's a nice guy to have on your time, but a dime a dozen player. I'm happy that Gio's starting to figure things out, but I still contend that winning teams with winning philosphies don't have time for guys like him to hone their craft at the Major League level. Don't let the pretty little ERA fool you, he still walks a ton of guys and, quickly glancing at his home/road splits, is getting a ton of help from playing in that behemoth that try to pass off as a baseball stadium in Oakland. At his best, Gio is a #5 guy on a legit contender. At his best.

The only thing wrong with that Swisher-Gio/Sweeney/DLS deal was we gave up on Swisher too soon. Should have kept Nick in RF and dealt Dye while he had some value.

UofCSoxFan
08-13-2010, 08:31 AM
Viciedo needed to be set down. Going 1 for his las 19 in a pennat race isn't helping the team and it isn't helping him. His at-bat with the bases loaded yesterday was actually a good sign...he took some close pitches and had a good swing on a 3-1 pitch that was in the zone...it just didn't work out. To me, that's a ton better than swing at 3 pitches eye high. Still, he's not helping the team much right now.

Even if he's not hitting, Lillibridge can help the team with his defense at multiple positions and can pinch run. Viciedo cannot.

Teahen is also an upgrade over Viciedo at third (yes Viciedo is that bad) and an upgrade over Quentin in right (who isn't?)

This is a smart move....I'm glad people realize that.

doublem23
08-13-2010, 08:37 AM
So the ball jumps off his bat. In other words, his bat speed. Anything else? I'm just not wild about guys who can't field their position.

The defense is questionable, I'll give you that, but I still think he has the hands to be a decent 1B. I know he has no range, but neither does Konerko and just about every other 1B in the league not named Mark Teixeira. He's made a few picks at 3B though that lead me to believe he can learn how to dig balls out of the dirt, the #1 skill required to play 1B effectively.

Kendry Morales was in the same boat as Dayan, a Cuban defector playing in the Majors, except he didn't get to LA until he was 23, but through his first 400 PA, he walked a grand total of 27 times. He's figured it out, too, to the tune of a .355 OBP last season.

Do you really not think a raw, 21-year-old with 82 PA under his belt has maxed out his potential?

Craig Grebeck
08-13-2010, 08:38 AM
Are you ****ing kidding me? Three starts. THREE STARTS?

Sweeney is a nothing, you know that, we could be realistically playing Kotsay, Vizquel, Jones, and Pierre on the 4 corners, we're not in any need of any more light-hitting corner OF. He's a nice guy to have on your time, but a dime a dozen player. I'm happy that Gio's starting to figure things out, but I still contend that winning teams with winning philosphies don't have time for guys like him to hone their craft at the Major League level. Don't let the pretty little ERA fool you, he still walks a ton of guys and, quickly glancing at his home/road splits, is getting a ton of help from playing in that behemoth that try to pass off as a baseball stadium in Oakland. At his best, Gio is a #5 guy on a legit contender. At his best.

The only thing wrong with that Swisher-Gio/Sweeney/DLS deal was we gave up on Swisher too soon. Should have kept Nick in RF and dealt Dye while he had some value.
So, let's go over your reasoning here:

1. Daniel Hudson sucks. Probably logic based on...the three starts he made in Chicago this season.
2. Your response to "Daniel Hudson has been phenomenal..."

Are you ****ing kidding me? Three starts. THREE STARTS?


And now, my take: yes, three starts. Three starts where he has looked like a major league pitcher, suppressing hits, limiting walks, and striking guys out. Don't get me wrong, Jackson has been good too in his two starts with the White Sox.

I see a road ERA of 4.08 for Gonzalez. A high WHIP, to be sure, but he's 24 and learning how to pitch at the major league level. He might become an ace someday. I, too, am happy for him, and don't lament his loss much -- I just took exception to the idea that he was sucking this season. I also don't regret Swisher I.

Craig Grebeck
08-13-2010, 08:39 AM
Do you really not think a raw, 21-year-old with 82 PA under his belt has maxed out his potential?
It's not that he's maxed out his potential, it's that I'm not sure the White Sox have the means to teach a raw, free-swinging 21-year-old plate discipline. Furthermore, I'm just not sure he can learn it. Could he still be the type who barely ever walks but hits the **** out of the ball -- yeah, he could. Those guys are just rare.

doublem23
08-13-2010, 08:41 AM
So, let's go over your reasoning here:

1. Daniel Hudson sucks. Probably logic based on...the three starts he made in Chicago this season.
2. Your response to "Daniel Hudson has been phenomenal..."


All right, fair enough, but I still have no problem moving Hudson, I just can't believe Edwin Jackson was the biggest prize we could land.

I will never have a problem with turning prospects into Major League players, regardless of how that is accomplished, either through their own development or trade.

TomBradley72
08-13-2010, 09:05 AM
So the ball jumps off his bat. In other words, his bat speed. Anything else? I'm just not wild about guys who can't field their position.

There are alot of 21 year olds who's defense needs work...my assessment is that he has the raw tools, and if he works at it, his defense will improve to at least adequate, if not better.

Carneyman14
08-13-2010, 09:47 AM
I agree with the move. I think we put him at 1b and in 3 or so years just put Konerko at dh most of the time. Viviedo will be a power guy. IMO we got power, just not strategic timely hitting. So many guys pop up and strand runners.

russ99
08-13-2010, 09:57 AM
Good deal. He can play every day and work on the lessons learned in his first call-up.

I'm still hopeful Kenny swings some kind of deal before the end of the month. Besides, if Jones is hurt with back issues he should be on the DL.

RockJock07
08-13-2010, 11:19 AM
So the ball jumps off his bat. In other words, his bat speed. Anything else? I'm just not wild about guys who can't field their position.

Then you don't like Frank Thomas?

Point is, he can improve his defense and turn himself into a servicable major league 3B or 1B.

Crestani
08-13-2010, 11:19 AM
Viciedo has absolutely no plate discipline. this is a good move and hopefully he will learn to take some walks when he gets back in September. Also, he needs work on his defense as well.

october23sp
08-13-2010, 01:09 PM
I guess I won't be buying a Cuban flag for when I go to Minnesota next week.

doublem23
08-13-2010, 01:12 PM
I guess I won't be buying a Cuban flag for when I go to Minnesota next week.

http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2008/0320/mlb_a_ramirez_200.jpg
Soy cubano, también.

Domeshot17
08-13-2010, 01:12 PM
He has struggled his last few games, but atleast he was a presence in the lineup. With Teahen also being a lefty hitter, its going to mean either more Andruw Jones or Mark Kotsay versus LHP, and we have seen how that story goes.

october23sp
08-13-2010, 01:18 PM
http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2008/0320/mlb_a_ramirez_200.jpg
Soy cubano, también.

I knew that, I just wanted it for 2 cubans. If I come across a Cuban flag between now and next Wednesday I will purchase it.

RCWHITESOX
08-13-2010, 01:26 PM
All right, fair enough, but I still have no problem moving Hudson, I just can't believe Edwin Jackson was the biggest prize we could land.

I will never have a problem with turning prospects into Major League players, regardless of how that is accomplished, either through their own development or trade.

I have to agree with your second statement but I like Jackson for Hudson. If the Sox want to win this year it's a good move. As for your opinion of Hudson if he is as weak as you say why would another organization give up allot for him. The Sox minors have produced few if any star players over the last several years.

Pablo_Honey
08-13-2010, 01:47 PM
I like this move. Dayan needs to get a consistent healthy dosage of ABs, which he wasn't getting up here because the Sox wanted to help with his "development" by limiting his playing time (All right, all right, I'll let it go). He will also be able to work on his fielding down there by playing everyday. Lillibridge fills in the role of defensive replacement and pinch runner off the bench. It's the right call.

TDog
08-13-2010, 02:03 PM
I guess the thought is Lillibridge can be a defensive replacement where as Vicideo can't? I'm not sure. It was going to be one of those two anyways and I figure Vicideo needs more consistent ABs than Lillibridge.

Sadly, Viciedo right now is probably a better fielder than he is a hitter. It isn't a matter a getting consistent at bats for two more weeks, although there is that. Had he played every day when he first came up, his hitting probably would have disappeared sooner once the word got around on how to pitch to him.

I don't think there is any question that Lillibridge is the better hitter right now, although Lillibridge is a better hitter off the bench than he is as a starter. (That's not unheard of. players that generally don't face starting pitchers or face them when they are tiring or are brought in to face relievers they match up well against, as opposed to hitters in the starting lineup who often face relievers selected to match up well against them.)

Some believed Viciedo should be a DH because he only offers a bat to help his team, but his offense is just as rough as his defense.

Nellie_Fox
08-14-2010, 12:19 AM
My biggest concern is the quote on the Sox site today where Viciedo says he doesn't think he needs to be more selective, that he's going to keep swinging, because "that's what I do." If he doesn't alter that view, major league pitchers are going to eat him alive.