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View Full Version : "Triumph and Tragedy: The 1994 Expos" to air on MLB Network on Sunday


PKalltheway
08-12-2010, 04:35 PM
It'll be on at 10 pm this Sunday. I hope I don't have to work that night, this looks like it will be an interesting show to watch.

http://mlbnetwork.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100812&content_id=13373430&vkey&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

Lip Man 1
08-12-2010, 04:44 PM
I "love" the way the MLBN wrote the synopsis story. It was a "players strike" that cause the Expos not to get a shot in the postseason.

:rolleyes:

Right, the owners had nothing to do with it.

BOTH SIDES were guilty as hell of greed and stupidity. A better term to use is "labor impasse."

Lip

LITTLE NELL
08-12-2010, 04:54 PM
Our White Sox also got screwed in 94.
Close to being one of our best teams.

Medford Bobby
08-12-2010, 05:09 PM
AS long as they don't blame it on the fans......:angry:

VeeckAsInWreck
08-12-2010, 05:17 PM
As much as I loved the '94 White Sox, I thought that Expos team was scary. They would've ended the Braves division winning streak that year.

Their outfield had Moises Alou, Marquis Grissom and Larry Walker. A pitching staff that was led by Ken Hill and a young Pedro Martinez. Their bullpen was lights out with Mel Rojas and John Wetteland.

WhiteSox5187
08-12-2010, 06:33 PM
I wonder if this program will mention how Selig essentially allowed Loria to kill the Expos.

Fenway
08-12-2010, 09:04 PM
I wonder if this program will mention how Selig essentially allowed Loria to kill the Expos.

To be fair Loria came in after the fatal wounds were caused by Claude Brochu

Bottom line - the fans did not quit on the Expos - The Expos quit on the fans. Keep in mind it hurt Quebec fans to see Toronto win it all twice and then they thought it was finally their time.

Foulke You
08-12-2010, 10:11 PM
As much as I loved the '94 White Sox, I thought that Expos team was scary. They would've ended the Braves division winning streak that year.

Their outfield had Moises Alou, Marquis Grissom and Larry Walker. A pitching staff that was led by Ken Hill and a young Pedro Martinez. Their bullpen was lights out with Mel Rojas and John Wetteland.
The Expos were good but that 1994 Sox team was clicking on all cylinders and I truly believe they win it all if the season played out. Frank Thomas and Julio Franco were an absolutely deadly 3-4 combo and the pitching staff of McDowell, Fernandez, Bere, Alvarez, and Sanderson was ridiculous. The bullpen of Roberto Hernandez, "Captain" Kirk McCaskill, Jose DeLeon, and even Paul Assenmacher were really damn solid. It might have gone 6 or 7 games but I think the Sox would have come out on top.

DSpivack
08-12-2010, 10:17 PM
The Expos were good but that 1994 Sox team was clicking on all cylinders and I truly believe they win it all if the season played out. Frank Thomas and Julio Franco were an absolutely deadly 3-4 combo and the pitching staff of McDowell, Fernandez, Bere, Alvarez, and Sanderson was ridiculous. The bullpen of Roberto Hernandez, "Captain" Kirk McCaskill, Jose DeLeon, and even Paul Assenmacher were really damn solid. It might have gone 6 or 7 games but I think the Sox would have come out on top.

The division title wouldn't have been inevitable. They were only up one game on a young Indians team that would dominate the rest of the decade.

Out in the AL West, the Rangers were leading the division and were 10 games under .500, two players were chasing Roger Maris [and back then it meant something], .400 and triple crowns were being flirted with, as well as some amazing pitching seasons. What a season it would have been...

VeeckAsInWreck
08-13-2010, 10:37 AM
The division title wouldn't have been inevitable. They were only up one game on a young Indians team that would dominate the rest of the decade.

Exactly. The rivalry with the Indians was intense that year, especially with the whole Albert Belle corked bat incident.

The Sox were good, but McDowell wasn't having such a great year and Roberto Hernandez wasn't quite closing the door in the 9th inning. So the division wasn't a lock, but the playoffs weren't out of the question as Cleveland was leading the wild card at the time.

downstairs
08-13-2010, 03:14 PM
Wasn't 1994 the first year of the Wild Card? I'm pretty sure both Cleveland and the White Sox would have made the postseason.

Beyond that you never know what will happen in 5 or 7 game series.

VeeckAsInWreck
08-13-2010, 03:32 PM
Wasn't 1994 the first year of the Wild Card? I'm pretty sure both Cleveland and the White Sox would have made the postseason.

Beyond that you never know what will happen in 5 or 7 game series.

1994 should have been the first year for the wild card and Cleveland was leading it over Baltimore by 2.5 games. The winner would more than likely have come from the AL Central.

2005 helped take the sting away from that strike. I was an usher at Comiskey the '94 season and that strike screwed me out of some cash that summer.

TomBradley72
08-13-2010, 03:46 PM
The division title wouldn't have been inevitable. They were only up one game on a young Indians team that would dominate the rest of the decade.

Out in the AL West, the Rangers were leading the division and were 10 games under .500, two players were chasing Roger Maris [and back then it meant something], .400 and triple crowns were being flirted with, as well as some amazing pitching seasons. What a season it would have been...

Even the All Star game was memorable that year...I remember alot of non baseball fans in my office becoming "re-interested" in baseball...then the ****ing strike.

TheOldRoman
08-13-2010, 04:25 PM
I "love" the way the MLBN wrote the synopsis story. It was a "players strike" that cause the Expos not to get a shot in the postseason.

:rolleyes:

Right, the owners had nothing to do with it.

BOTH SIDES were guilty as hell of greed and stupidity. A better term to use is "labor impasse."

LipI know you go out of your way to bash any an all owners (except maybe Steinbrenner), but that is 100% accurate. It wasn't a lockout. Whatever the circumstances were, the players went on strike.

downstairs
08-13-2010, 05:01 PM
I know you go out of your way to bash any an all owners (except maybe Steinbrenner), but that is 100% accurate. It wasn't a lockout. Whatever the circumstances were, the players went on strike.

No, both sides were at fault. Who cares who struck or locked out first? What if the deal proposed by the owners WAS laughably unfair? I'm sure parts of it were.

I would argue that a lot of the stuff that went on in the 1970's and even '80s was more the fault of ownership- because the employment situation from the beginning of baseball on was so unfair to players.

But even then, the players took some control and then went way overboard with their union and how it acted in negotiations.

TheOldRoman
08-13-2010, 06:31 PM
No, both sides were at fault. Who cares who struck or locked out first? What if the deal proposed by the owners WAS laughably unfair? I'm sure parts of it were.

I would argue that a lot of the stuff that went on in the 1970's and even '80s was more the fault of ownership- because the employment situation from the beginning of baseball on was so unfair to players.

But even then, the players took some control and then went way overboard with their union and how it acted in negotiations.The owners definitely share the blame. However, the players decided to go on strike. They actually played 1994 without a CBA in place. The owners are stupid for letting that happen. They should have locked the players out on January 1, 1994, that way we would have had a finish to the season.

Lip Man 1
08-13-2010, 10:49 PM
Roman:

Maybe it's just semantics when all is said and done but to me, the way the piece is composed appears to point all the blame on the players. That's false and misleading. Period.

BOTH sides were to blame and also history shows that U.S. Federal Court did rule against the owners and upheld the union's contention that the owners were not negotiating in good faith.

That ruling led directly to the owners understanding they couldn't win this and settled.

I just think that while like you said, it's an accurate statement it's also badly misleading especially to anyone who wasn't old enough to understand what was going on in the summer of 1994.

Bashing owners or the union has nothing to do with this belief.

Lip

TheOldRoman
08-14-2010, 05:20 PM
It is just a small synopsis. Maybe they include more detail in the actual movie. I myself wasn't old enough to understand was was going on at the time, and actually just read all the details recently. Being that this is solely about the Expos, I don't know if they are going to go in depth about the causes of the strike. Ken Burns' new chapter of the baseball documentary is supposed to cover the strike heavily. Hopefully he tells the entire story. As I said, aside from the collusion and other mistakes the owners made, I think the fatal mistake was to not lock the players out in January 1994, just as we saw the NBA, NHL, and coming next year another NFL lockout. That would have settled the issue much earlier and allowed the playoffs to be played.

PKalltheway
08-17-2010, 11:38 AM
Did anybody else get to watch this on Sunday? I thought it was a pretty solid show. They did sort of gloss over the Jeffrey Loria years, but I guess they made up for it by going in-depth into the Claude Brochu years.

The Expos would make for a perfect "30 in 30" show on ESPN.

DSpivack
08-17-2010, 11:52 AM
Completely forgot to either watch or DVR this. Hope it will be on again.

ChicagoRushFan
08-17-2010, 12:52 PM
I watched it, I thought it was 'okay'. Most of the stuff any baseball fan would know already. I'd say the last 25 minutes or so were the best parts. How the new stadium failed, the video of the last game, the banner they put on the wall for the 94 team, the video of the banner going up at the Canadians' arena, etc.

tacosalbarojas
08-17-2010, 01:03 PM
Thoroughly enjoyed it. Much more enjoyable than arguing the minutia of who was to blame for the strike. The early scenes from Jarry Park and Le Grande Orange were nice too.

soxinem1
08-17-2010, 01:20 PM
The Expos were good but that 1994 Sox team was clicking on all cylinders and I truly believe they win it all if the season played out. Frank Thomas and Julio Franco were an absolutely deadly 3-4 combo and the pitching staff of McDowell, Fernandez, Bere, Alvarez, and Sanderson was ridiculous. The bullpen of Roberto Hernandez, "Captain" Kirk McCaskill, Jose DeLeon, and even Paul Assenmacher were really damn solid. It might have gone 6 or 7 games but I think the Sox would have come out on top.

Not sure about that. CLE was only a game behind having picked up 2-3 games on us in the last week of the season, while MON was SEVEN ahead of ATL.

And Hernandez sucked in 1994. It was his worst full season here. His save percentage and ERA were brutal.

We also had many problems in the fifth starter area, as Scott Sanderson was yanked after a good start, and Scheuler's #1 draft flop Scott Ruffcorn pitched BP for a couple games before he got sent packing. Lamont was going with four starters when the strike hit. Who knows how that would have turned out if it went 162 games. Especially with Jason Bere having 100 pitches by the end of the fourth inning almost every night.

While it was a fun team with the bats, the pitching staff was kind of so-so until McDowell began to turn it around. He was 2-7 with an ERA over 6.00 at one point before finishing 10-9.

And I'll never forget his last game with the White Sox, a 10K, CG seven-hitter over OAK. Too bad the season ended because Black Jack was on a major roll at the time.

Additionally, as many seem to not mention, a hard-charging KC team was only a couple games behind the Indians at the end of 1994. That was a solid Royals team and the last one they have had.

Ironic how the two expansion cousins met similar fates after the 1994 strike.

Hitmen77
08-17-2010, 04:51 PM
Completely forgot to either watch or DVR this. Hope it will be on again.

It'll be on again this Friday at 3:00pm

Hitmen77
09-02-2010, 12:04 PM
I finally got to watch this. It was a good program.

It was interesting to see the old footage of Jarry Park. That looked much more baseball friendly than Olympic Stadium. I believe in the show, they referred to Olympic Stadium as looking like a giant ashtray. Moving to that eyesore and failing to secure a new baseball-only park killed that franchise. The idea is that, if '94 wasn't canceled and the Expos won the WS, then they had a decent chance of getting a new ballpark funded. They showed footage of a Quebec politician rallying votes against a ballpark that only benefits American employees.

Even before the 1994 strike, the program showed how the Expos were simply not able to keep up with the high price of free agency. They had a great farm system and developed some great stars - but as soon as free agency hit: Poof - they were gone.