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View Full Version : *Official* Tied back up, Danks, Sox beat Twins 6-1 Postgame Celebration Thread


Frater Perdurabo
08-11-2010, 10:45 PM
Good...

SoxSpeed22
08-11-2010, 10:46 PM
That's better.

GoGoCrede
08-11-2010, 10:46 PM
Danks continues to be phenomenal. Mr. Floyd should be able to put on a similar show tomorrow, as well.

Great win...not much to say. It's a big relief.

KnightSox
08-11-2010, 10:47 PM
Damn that felt good.

Bucky F. Dent
08-11-2010, 10:47 PM
Johnny Danks was extraordinary!

soxinem1
08-11-2010, 10:47 PM
Magic Eight Ball by Danks.

Couldn't have come at a better time.

Maybe Carlos belongs in the seven spot from here on out.

WhiteSox5187
08-11-2010, 10:47 PM
Way to bounce back, good win, bush league move by the Twins to hit Quentin, that was clearly intentional. Don't stop now!

manders_01
08-11-2010, 10:48 PM
That was a most enjoyable game to watch. I'm so glad when watching the game Saturday night on WGN that I made the decision to skip the gym tonight to be sure to see all of this game on WGN.

Excellent win boys! :thumbsup:

ChiSoxGal85
08-11-2010, 10:48 PM
That's better... Nice job by Danks. Sox took advantage of the Twinkie mistakes. I approve. :bandance:

october23sp
08-11-2010, 10:48 PM
Win the series tomorrow.

K Thx.

soltrain21
08-11-2010, 10:49 PM
So much for the Twins setting the tone for this series, huh?

They looked worse today than we did yesterday.

manders_01
08-11-2010, 10:49 PM
Geez Carlos, you're allowed to smile! :tongue:

BadBobbyJenks
08-11-2010, 10:49 PM
Aces stop the bleeding and go deep into games. A pleasure as always Mr Danks.

LoveYourSuit
08-11-2010, 10:49 PM
Great job by Danks!

FielderJones
08-11-2010, 10:50 PM
The Twins never beat themselves.

:roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:

bluedemon45
08-11-2010, 10:50 PM
Great game! Lets win this series tomorrow!

GoGoCrede
08-11-2010, 10:50 PM
So much for the Twins setting the tone for this series, huh?

They looked worse today than we did yesterday.

Heh. Classic.:tongue: I thought yesterday we could take 2/3, and I still think that, especially with my fave pitching tomorrow.

balke
08-11-2010, 10:50 PM
Sox lose - the season is over. Sox win - pat on the back. JUST THINK HOW MUCH WE COULD'VE WON BY IF THOME WAS HERE!

NDSox12
08-11-2010, 10:50 PM
Magic Eight Ball by Danks.

Couldn't have come at a better time.

Maybe Carlos belongs in the seven spot from here on out.

Carlos was hitting 5th tonight.

soltrain21
08-11-2010, 10:50 PM
TCQ has a glowing personality.

soxinem1
08-11-2010, 10:51 PM
Geez Carlos, you're allowed to smile! :tongue:

No kidding!!

He looks like he has to take a whizz or something on the postgame interview.

TCQ has a glowing personality.

He's acting tougher than a five cent steak!

1989
08-11-2010, 10:51 PM
Huge ****ing win

Woofer
08-11-2010, 10:52 PM
Good job tonight, boys. I feel happy!

JB98
08-11-2010, 10:52 PM
LOL. Those fundamentally sound Twinkees puked all over our field tonight.

I've noticed there aren't as many "guests" hanging around WSI tonight. Wonder why that is?

Oh, yeah. It's because the Twins are crappy. They are perpetual losers.

Danks cut those guys to shreds tonight. Floyd's turn tomorrow.

Frater Perdurabo
08-11-2010, 10:53 PM
The Sox simply played a crisp game all the way around tonight: strong pitching, long ball, small ball, smart ball, solid glovework.

NDSox12
08-11-2010, 10:53 PM
TCQ has a glowing personality.

He's on MLB Network now.

october23sp
08-11-2010, 10:53 PM
The Twins never beat themselves.

:roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:

They didn't beat themselves. We beat them. However, they did play bad.

Zakath
08-11-2010, 10:53 PM
Tone of the game seemed to be set on the first play. Great execution on the throw and the relay to get Span at third, because that easily could have turned into "Here we go again with the Twins" if he scores in that inning.

You have to take advantage of other teams' mistakes and we did, and Danks pitched a gem.

Need another stellar performance from Gavin tomorrow night in what is likely to be a pitcher's duel with Liriano.

roylestillman
08-11-2010, 10:55 PM
That was as bad as I've seen the Twins in decades. I feel better about our chances just based on their play tonight.

Denks is the best we have. Is it time for the Sox to give him the long term deal?

Nelfox02
08-11-2010, 10:59 PM
Great performance by Danks, solid effort overall from the bats


Not taking ANYTHING at all away from this one because it was a very big win when we really needed one, but going into this game you had to figure that this was a game we should win, regardless of that it was the Twins, the Sox should win a game of Danks vs Perkins at our field.

Now tomorrow night, real test for us. Two good arms going at it, rubber game, first place once again on the line. Yes, if we win it we go up just one game, but I think it would be a huge boost for this team's and this fanbases' pysche to hang a series loss on the Twins

Go for it guys, get this series.

Great game tonight, thank you Danks!

ChiSoxGirl
08-11-2010, 10:59 PM
Tone of the game seemed to be set on the first play. Great execution on the throw and the relay to get Span at third, because that easily could have turned into "Here we go again with the Twins" if he scores in that inning.

You have to take advantage of other teams' mistakes and we did, and Danks pitched a gem.

Need another stellar performance from Gavin tomorrow night in what is likely to be a pitcher's duel with Liriano.

This is exactly what Hawk said. In fact, when Span hit that ball, Hawk commented, "So, the Twins are going to pick up right where they left off last night...." No sooner did he say that did Rios and Beckham team up to nail Span at third. As Hawk said, that play set the tone for the rest of the game.

After a super busy day for ChiSoxGirl, I was glad to have a quiet night at home watching the Sox kick some Twinkie ass. Get 'em tomorrow and win the series because, well, I'll be there. :tongue:

One more thing.... Quote of the night from Hawk, "Perkins should be drilling his own players! It's their fault!"

ChiSoxGal85
08-11-2010, 11:00 PM
He's on MLB Network now.
I just caught the last few seconds of Carlos on MLB. He does not look like he enjoys interviews at all! Wonder if he drew the short stick today. :D:

Really enjoyed this game. Let's do it again tomorrow, boys!

soxfanreggie
08-11-2010, 11:05 PM
I just caught the last few seconds of Carlos on MLB. He does not look like he enjoys interviews at all! Wonder if he drew the short stick today. :D:

Really enjoyed this game. Let's do it again tomorrow, boys!

If we could put up the same type of game tomorrow, that would be fantastic. However, I'll settle for anything that puts a W in the column for us tomorrow, no matter how ugly.

GlassSox
08-11-2010, 11:06 PM
Danks was the man tonight. TCQ is a terrible interview, LOL.

asindc
08-11-2010, 11:07 PM
The Twins never beat themselves.

:roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:

Well, when you sacrifice some defense by trading for Hardy and putting him at SS, you sometimes end up pinch hitting for him anyway.

balke
08-11-2010, 11:08 PM
After a disappointing Baltimore series - Quentin is crushing the ball. 3 HR in 5 games.

Left 10 on base in Baltimore - knocked 6 in so far v. Minnesota. I'll take the trade off. You owe us 4 more Carlos!

manders_01
08-11-2010, 11:09 PM
LOL. Those fundamentally sound Twinkees puked all over our field tonight.

I've noticed there aren't as many "guests" hanging around WSI tonight. Wonder why that is?

Oh, yeah. It's because the Twins are crappy. They are perpetual losers.

Danks cut those guys to shreds tonight. Floyd's turn tomorrow.

:wooty:

Blueprint1
08-11-2010, 11:16 PM
After a disappointing Baltimore series - Quentin is crushing the ball. 3 HR in 5 games.

Left 10 on base in Baltimore - knocked 6 in so far v. Minnesota. I'll take the trade off. You owe us 4 more Carlos!

Again, look at his Home/Aways splits. He has no trouble hitting the ball at home. Great game tonight. We win tomorrow and were back in first all alone.

thomas35forever
08-11-2010, 11:16 PM
I treated myself to a Twinkie after the final out on my way to work. Anyone else feel free to have a Twinkie of their own.

kevingrt
08-11-2010, 11:16 PM
I cannot wait to be at the game tomorrow for big time Gavin.

voodoochile
08-11-2010, 11:19 PM
Nice bounce back win. Get the series tomorrow and erase the last two days like they never happened.

Danks is um... Dankerific and Carlos seems to be continuing his hot power hitting summer.

:soxwin:

:)

tony1972
08-11-2010, 11:21 PM
A tie for first is so much better than 2 game back...!:smile:

tony1972
08-11-2010, 11:22 PM
I just caught the last few seconds of Carlos on MLB. He does not look like he enjoys interviews at all! Wonder if he drew the short stick today. :D:

Really enjoyed this game. Let's do it again tomorrow, boys!

You would be tired and crabby too if your body had to hold up a head that big !!!!:D:

manders_01
08-11-2010, 11:23 PM
I treated myself to a Twinkie after the final out on my way to work. Anyone else feel free to have a Twinkie of their own.

:rolling: It took me a minute to put two and two together :dunce: but that's just ****ing awesome! :bandance:

Lip Man 1
08-11-2010, 11:26 PM
Nice bounce back tonight. They have a shot to win the series. Let's hope they play well again.

Lip

thomas35forever
08-11-2010, 11:26 PM
:rolling: It took me a minute to put two and two together :dunce: but that's just ****ing awesome! :bandance:

I've got another one in my pantry for when we take the series tomorrow night.:bandance:

SpartanSoxFan
08-11-2010, 11:32 PM
While I really wanted the Sox to pile on about 10 more runs to send the Twinks a little message, I won't be greedy and will relish the win tonight. I was concerned how they would respond after last night's disaster.

hi im skot
08-11-2010, 11:59 PM
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j146/sschaaf/twinslost.jpg?t=1281585570

doublem23
08-12-2010, 12:05 AM
Johnny set 'em up, Gavin for the KO tomorrow.

I'll be there in the Upper Bowl. First of like 6 games in the next month. :bandance:

Coops4Aces
08-12-2010, 12:14 AM
So good to be back home and in front of the TV to watch the boys. I'm kind of glad I wasn't able to come on here over the weekend :tongue:

Solid win. Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

russ99
08-12-2010, 12:14 AM
Great win, Sox. Let's get em tomorrow and kick them out of town into 2nd place.

On a different note, hopefully this put to rest or at least silenced for a little while all the clamoring for Viciedo to DH.

doublem23
08-12-2010, 12:26 AM
Great win, Sox. Let's get em tomorrow and kick them out of town into 2nd place.

On a different note, hopefully this put to rest or at least silenced for a little while all the clamoring for Viciedo to DH.

If we're going to get 0 production from our DH, it may as well be on the job learning for a guy who could be here for a long time instead of an aging vet who likely won't be back next year.

canOcorn
08-12-2010, 12:27 AM
On a different note, hopefully this put to rest or at least silenced for a little while all the clamoring for Viciedo to DH.

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Everyone should be clamoring for their grandma to DH over Kotsay. Kotsay should only be in the lineup on a day PK needs a rest at 1B.

soxlady8
08-12-2010, 12:29 AM
The triple that was DENIED really SET the tone for the evening.

Danks was awesome. Really awesome. He was fabulous.
8 innings of 1 run ball and over 100 pitches.


Glad I was there tonight to witness this dynamite win :)
I was there last night and tonight the VIBE was sooo diffferent.
The SOX fans were cheering in full force !!!!!!!

GoGoCrede
08-12-2010, 12:30 AM
The triple that was DENIED really SET the tone for the evening.



That was HILARIOUS. One of my favorite parts of the game.

Coops4Aces
08-12-2010, 12:38 AM
Great win, Sox. Let's get em tomorrow and kick them out of town into 2nd place.

On a different note, hopefully this put to rest or at least silenced for a little while all the clamoring for Viciedo to DH.

Holy sample size Batman!

Soxgirl22
08-12-2010, 12:41 AM
A really fun game to be at! I'm on a 3 game win streak, and have seen the only two times the Sox have beat the Twins since the break :smile:

GoGoCrede
08-12-2010, 12:42 AM
A really fun game to be at! I'm on a 3 game win streak, and have seen the only two times the Sox have beat the Twins since the break :smile:

I despise you. My long winning streak ended last night.

Tragg
08-12-2010, 12:49 AM
Very nice, JD and TCQ

soxlady8
08-12-2010, 12:50 AM
As for TCQ and postgame interviewing:

he probably was wanting to get some treatment from Hermie and crew
for both times he was whomped by pitches -- poor guy

one of my fb statuses said: I know you Twinks play at Target Field , but TCQ does not have a TARGET bullseye anywhere on him.

DonnieDarko
08-12-2010, 01:11 AM
http://didthetwinswin.com/

Surprised no one's posted this one yet...

Nellie_Fox
08-12-2010, 01:22 AM
This is exactly what Hawk said. In fact, when Span hit that ball, Hawk commented, "So, the Twins are going to pick up right where they left off last night...." No sooner did he say that did Rios and Beckham team up to nail Span at third. As Hawk said, that play set the tone for the rest of the game.
And that was bad fundamental baseball. He got thrown out by a bunch, and it's an age-old thing that you don't make the first or last out of an inning at third. Tonight the Twins were very "un-Twinslike" in that they made several fundamental errors, and then lost their poise. I'm sure Gardenhire pointed that out to them after the game.

hawkjt
08-12-2010, 01:29 AM
Fun nite to be at the park. That makes 5 straight wins for me at Soxpark,which helps make up for sitting thru some freezing cold bad losses in April. Crowd was into the game tonite. I just think it is huge for the Sox to score first,especially at home.

Johnny had great stuff tonite,altho command a bit spotty.
Mauer seems to either hit it square,or when he misses it ,he always ends up with dying quail liners that drop in....hit that guy tomorrow,Ozzie....Carlos should not be the only guy who gets nailed.

Carlos really has a pretty good arm in right..threw a strike to Omar to make sure Mauer did not advance.

TDog
08-12-2010, 01:45 AM
I totally missed this game, spending the day and evening book shopping in the Pacific time zone, but I expected the Sox to win with Danks pitching. The Sox lost Tuesday night because their weakest starter had a poor night. Fortunately, unlike the weekend in Oakland where Hudson went to the mound and had a poor rookie outing after a bad veteran outing by Garcia, the Sox came back with Danks tonight. Adding Jackson to the rotation has helped.

I didn't read the post mortem on Tuesday night's game, but I'm sure it was full of overreaction to the Twins jumping all over Garcia. A couple of observations about tonight's game:

Maybe the fact that Quentin hit two home runs in two nights and him being hit more are related -- not that the Twins were throwing at him, but that when Quentin is hitting well, he isn't as quick to give ground to inside pitches.

I was surprised to see Viciedo was the DH, especially considering how poorly he has been hitting everyone lately. He only had one hit and seven strikeouts in his last four starts. I wasn't surprised to see Viciedo struck out twice in four at bats tonight. Guillen obviously wanted Vizquel at third with Danks on the mound and Twins likely to hit more balls to the left side, and he wanted Viciedo's bat against a left-handed starter. But when a young player isn't hitting, possibly because he has been overexposed by playing enough that opposing teams have figured out how to pitch him, the DH slot doesn't seem the place for him to be.

This series reminds me of the White Sox and the A's in 1972 who met at about the same time, around August 12, as I recall. The White Sox went into Oakland and won the two of the first three in the four-game series (the loss coming in a 19-inning marathon) to tie that A's for first. The Sox lost on Sunday afternoon to fall a game back. The Sox later climbed back into first place before the A's started to pull away at the end of September, on their way to the first of their three straight World Series titles.

october23sp
08-12-2010, 02:53 AM
We have to win one of these series 2-1. Hopefully both.:gulp:

guillensdisciple
08-12-2010, 03:38 AM
**** the Twins, **** their city, **** their team, **** their management, **** their stadium, **** everything about them.

Was at the game, extremely proud of my team. Extremely proud of our White Sox.

I said it before, I'll say it again- this team is going to shock everyone here, this team is going to be special. All this bull**** that we have pulled coming back into it is going to be nothing compared to what we will pull come October.

This is White Sox baseball, this is winning baseball- tomorrow we go up by 1 game in the division and never look back.

Go White Sox!!!

samurai_sox
08-12-2010, 04:53 AM
]**** the Twins, **** their city, **** their team, **** their management, **** their stadium, **** everything about them.[/B]

Was at the game, extremely proud of my team. Extremely proud of our White Sox.

I said it before, I'll say it again- this team is going to shock everyone here, this team is going to be special. All this bull**** that we have pulled coming back into it is going to be nothing compared to what we will pull come October.

This is White Sox baseball, this is winning baseball- tomorrow we go up by 1 game in the division and never look back.

Go White Sox!!!

Right on!! There is no other team in baseball that I hate more than the Minnesota Twins. Whenever I tell people that they always ask, "Why? They are an underdog, small market team that never bothers anyone."

:angry::angry::angry: THEY SURE SEEM TO BOTHER THE HELL OUT OF ME AS A WHITE SOX FAN!!

LITTLE NELL
08-12-2010, 08:14 AM
Huge win by Danks, he has become our stopper.
The way things were going for us I was fearing a sweep but Danks stepped up for us.
C'mon Gavin, lets take 1st place back.

harwar
08-12-2010, 08:21 AM
There's nothing i like more than great defense .. that relay to begin the game was so unexpected and so perfect .. well done guys .. it was kind of fun having the twins fans get less and less boisterous as their team made one mistake after another .. i don't think i've ever seen Johnny Danks so angry as when he walked off the mound after having that balk called .. he pitched well and was pretty much in control all night .. i'm really looking forward to tonight's, with Floyd and Liriano going head to head ..

SCCWS
08-12-2010, 08:21 AM
I was surprised to see Viciedo was the DH, especially considering how poorly he has been hitting everyone lately. He only had one hit and seven strikeouts in his last four starts. I wasn't surprised to see Viciedo struck out twice in four at bats tonight. Guillen obviously wanted Vizquel at third with Danks on the mound and Twins likely to hit more balls to the left side, and he wanted Viciedo's bat against a left-handed starter.
.

Actually Viciedo was originally listed at 3rd but Jones was a late scratch. That moved TCQ to RF and Vizquel was added to lineup. Ozzie probably didn't want to pull Viciedo at the last minute so he moved him to DH.

dwitt76
08-12-2010, 08:25 AM
THEY SURE SEEM TO BOTHER THE HELL OUT OF ME AS A WHITE SOX FAN!!

LOL. Yea they bother me as well.

soltrain21
08-12-2010, 08:51 AM
**** the Twins, **** their city, **** their team, **** their management, **** their stadium, **** everything about them.

Was at the game, extremely proud of my team. Extremely proud of our White Sox.

I said it before, I'll say it again- this team is going to shock everyone here, this team is going to be special. All this bull**** that we have pulled coming back into it is going to be nothing compared to what we will pull come October.

This is White Sox baseball, this is winning baseball- tomorrow we go up by 1 game in the division and never look back.

Go White Sox!!!

:rolleyes: We must watch sports in different ways.

Sad
08-12-2010, 09:15 AM
fun night but damn was it hot in that lot
and humid all night

may blow off coming in Saturday...

Red Barchetta
08-12-2010, 09:49 AM
Right on!! There is no other team in baseball that I hate more than the Minnesota Twins. Whenever I tell people that they always ask, "Why? They are an underdog, small market team that never bothers anyone."

:angry::angry::angry: THEY SURE SEEM TO BOTHER THE HELL OUT OF ME AS A WHITE SOX FAN!!

I agree. The thing I hate about the Twins is that when they manage to squeak out a division title, they always get bounced out of the playoffs the first round. At least the SOX won the WS in 2005 and the Tigers made it to the WS as well as Cleveland advancing during their run.

I am getting tired of the Hawk's manlove for Gardenhire as well. OK, we get it! :angry:

fram40
08-12-2010, 09:59 AM
And that was bad fundamental baseball. He got thrown out by a bunch, and it's an age-old thing that you don't make the first or last out of an inning at third. Tonight the Twins were very "un-Twinslike" in that they made several fundamental errors, and then lost their poise. I'm sure Gardenhire pointed that out to them after the game.

I hate it when the Sox give games away to the opposition. I always enjoy when the other team plays poorly and the Sox take advantage, especially so when it is the Twins

Now we need Floyd to continue his amazing run.

TheOldRoman
08-12-2010, 10:01 AM
:rolleyes: We must watch sports in different ways.I don't see anything objectionable about what he posted. You would be hard pressed to find anyone on this board outside of Homefish who liked anything about the Twins.

soxfanreggie
08-12-2010, 10:02 AM
Fun nite to be at the park. That makes 5 straight wins for me at Soxpark,which helps make up for sitting thru some freezing cold bad losses in April.

Can you make sure you're there tonight? Floyd vs Liriano should be a good match-up. If we can jump on them right away and build off last night's momentum, this one will be ripe for the picking.

KempersRS
08-12-2010, 10:05 AM
:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Everyone should be clamoring for their grandma to DH over Kotsay. Kotsay should only be in the lineup on a day PK needs a rest at 1B.

I've never been a Kotsay fan, but let's face it, he has been hitting the ball well this month. I definitely think people are jumping the gun on Dayan. He was 0-4 with 2 K's on just 9 pitches last night. That is about as bad a night you can have.

I'm not holding that one game against him, but his approach at the plate hasn't been impressive. You all realize he still hasn't taken a walk yet, yes? His OBP is .282, and this is all while Ozzie has been trying to work him in against lefties as much as possible.

Lillibridge has fallen back down to earth, and Jones sucks. Kotsay is the best option until Teahen comes back.

TDog
08-12-2010, 10:17 AM
Actually Viciedo was originally listed at 3rd but Jones was a late scratch. That moved TCQ to RF and Vizquel was added to lineup. Ozzie probably didn't want to pull Viciedo at the last minute so he moved him to DH.

Taking that into consideration, it makes sense that Viciedo would be the DH.

Red Barchetta
08-12-2010, 10:21 AM
Another thing I enjoyed about last night was the fact that the SOX were wearing their home pinstripes and the Twins were wearing their road grays. No altnerate jersey in sight! It was like watching old-school baseball again! :smile:

BoysMom3
08-12-2010, 10:22 AM
And that was bad fundamental baseball. He got thrown out by a bunch, and it's an age-old thing that you don't make the first or last out of an inning at third. Tonight the Twins were very "un-Twinslike" in that they made several fundamental errors, and then lost their poise. I'm sure Gardenhire pointed that out to them after the game.

That's just what my husband said during the game last night - you never see the Twins look this bad.

Here's to keeping the momentum going and another Sox win to reclaim first place alone!

guillensdisciple
08-12-2010, 10:32 AM
:rolleyes: We must watch sports in different ways.

98 percent of the time, I am watching it on t.v, the other 2 is usually at the stadium.

UofCSoxFan
08-12-2010, 10:46 AM
I've never been a Kotsay fan, but let's face it, he has been hitting the ball well this month. I definitely think people are jumping the gun on Dayan. He was 0-4 with 2 K's on just 9 pitches last night. That is about as bad a night you can have.

I'm not holding that one game against him, but his approach at the plate hasn't been impressive. You all realize he still hasn't taken a walk yet, yes? His OBP is .282, and this is all while Ozzie has been trying to work him in against lefties as much as possible.

Lillibridge has fallen back down to earth, and Jones sucks. Kotsay is the best option until Teahen comes back.

Kotsay has been garbage against lefties this year but I agree he should be in there against righties. I don't get why people still hate on him and say "two good weeks of baseball doesn't make up for his crappy season," when Viciedo had a handful of good games at the start of the year and hasn't been very good once people realized he can't hit a high fastball and he won't walk. Lillibridge didn't go to the minors and turn into Ian Kinsler, despite what some people think and Jones hasn't been a good hitter since May.

Kotsay is by no means perfect, but the viceral hate against him when our other options suck too is unreal.

Noneck
08-12-2010, 10:54 AM
It is nice that now the Sox have a chance to win this series.

I know a lot has been said about the Sox needing a LH DH bat. The concern now is the RH DH bat. I look forward to Kotsay now, compared to Jones or Viciedo.

I am quite amazed that this Viciedo kid is allowed to be such a free swinger. I wonder how many players in the history of baseball have started off a career with 80+AB and no walks. Hopefully he will learn about plate presence at AAA when Teahen returns.

Coops4Aces
08-12-2010, 10:58 AM
Speaking of Teahen, he told me 10 days ago that he'd be back in "a week or so". He is crushing the ball down in Charlotte, so I don't know what the Sox are planning, but it's time for him to get back.

soltrain21
08-12-2010, 11:08 AM
I don't see anything objectionable about what he posted. You would be hard pressed to find anyone on this board outside of Homefish who liked anything about the Twins.

Okay - let me rephrase. I guess I don't take it that serious.

MeteorsSox4367
08-12-2010, 11:09 AM
Seats were good up in 537, Danks pitched great, TCQ comes through again.

The only thing wrong is the Sox' spelling of "Missile" on their Hawaii Five-O piece on the scoreboard. Alexei is described as the "Cuban Missle."

Oops.

October26
08-12-2010, 11:17 AM
Great win last night. Talk about an outstanding pitching performance when the Sox needed it the most - wow! Johnny Danks, I think I love you!!! :D:

TheOldRoman
08-12-2010, 11:31 AM
Okay - let me rephrase. I guess I don't take it that serious.Oh, I say thing like that all the time. I remember there was a large amount of those posts after game 163 in 2008. It feels good sometimes. I hate the Twins more than any other sports team. It's not like I would punch Ron Gardenhire in the face if I ever saw him. I might trip him, though. :)

delben91
08-12-2010, 11:38 AM
:rolleyes: We must watch sports in different ways.

I don't see anything objectionable about what he posted. You would be hard pressed to find anyone on this board outside of Homefish who liked anything about the Twins.

I've got no problem hating the Twins, their management, even the stadium or the fans. I've got no problem with the twin cites though. They're rather nice cities actually... Just because there's a sports team there you hate doesn't mean you have to hate the city they reside in.

As a Dolphins fan I hate the Patriots, I like Boston though, nice city to visit.

Red Barchetta
08-12-2010, 12:16 PM
Speaking of Teahen, he told me 10 days ago that he'd be back in "a week or so". He is crushing the ball down in Charlotte, so I don't know what the Sox are planning, but it's time for him to get back.

I was wondering the same thing. I know there is some baseball karma going on considering the tear the SOX have been on since Teahan left, however the fact that he's hitting the ball well, while the SOX continue to try and fill the LH hitting void makes me wonder whether Teahan had any clubhouse issues before going down with his injury.

The most logical statistical choice would be to move Kotsay, however we know that Ozzie and his teammates love him so who goes? Lillibridge deserves to stay, Jones deserves to stay, Vizquel isn't going anywhere. :scratch:

Chez
08-12-2010, 12:23 PM
I was wondering the same thing. I know there is some baseball karma going on considering the tear the SOX have been on since Teahan left, however the fact that he's hitting the ball well, while the SOX continue to try and fill the LH hitting void makes me wonder whether Teahan had any clubhouse issues before going down with his injury.

The most logical statistical choice would be to move Kotsay, however we know that Ozzie and his teammates love him so who goes? Lillibridge deserves to stay, Jones deserves to stay, Vizquel isn't going anywhere. :scratch:

Take it for what it's worth, but I guy I know who did an internship with the White Sox front office (and still has many friends there) told me a few weeks ago that Kotsay was the most popular player in the clubhouse and Teahen was almost universally disliked. I know this isn't high school or a popularity contest, but these guys spend a lot of time together and it's got to be a factor.

TheOldRoman
08-12-2010, 12:37 PM
Take it for what it's worth, but I guy I know who did an internship with the White Sox front office (and still has many friends there) told me a few weeks ago that Kotsay was the most popular player in the clubhouse and Teahen was almost universally disliked. I know this isn't high school or a popularity contest, but these guys spend a lot of time together and it's got to be a factor.With the pettiness Konerko among others showed last year about Getz, that wouldn't surprise me one bit. It is the good 'ol boys network in the clubhouse.

FielderJones
08-12-2010, 12:46 PM
With the pettiness Konerko among others showed last year about Getz, that wouldn't surprise me one bit. It is the good 'ol boys network in the clubhouse.

Could you elaborate on that? I googled Konerko Getz and didn't see any articles about any problems those two had.

Red Barchetta
08-12-2010, 12:48 PM
With the pettiness Konerko among others showed last year about Getz, that wouldn't surprise me one bit. It is the good 'ol boys network in the clubhouse.

...as well as Dye and his pouting over Rios' arrival!

I agree that there is certainly a veteran pecking order in (each) clubhouse. Konerko and a few others lead the way (especially those with rings on their fingers) and the other vets fall in line accordingly. If a new guy (Teahan) comes in and doesn't pay his dues, I'm sure clubhouse issues arise.

Worst case scenerio...Teahan is activated, Lillibridge (probably) goes down and the SOX go on a losing streak. Think Teahan would be moved?! :D:

TheOldRoman
08-12-2010, 12:54 PM
Could you elaborate on that? I googled Konerko Getz and didn't see any articles about any problems those two had.When the Sox were doing well Getz was quoted as saying he thought the young guys brought a change of pace and put a little more life into the lineup. This offended Konerko in particular, and from that point on Getz was an outcast in the clubhouse. Swisher and Cabrera were both douches, but that isn't why they didn't fit in. They didn't fit in because they didn't fall in line with the same old, lazy "poor us, we can't win in the Metrodome, it's okay for us to slump for an entire month at a time" mindset.

Nelfox02
08-12-2010, 01:04 PM
The most logical statistical choice would be to move Kotsay, however we know that Ozzie and his teammates love him so who goes? Lillibridge deserves to stay, Jones deserves to stay, Vizquel isn't going anywhere. :scratch:

No way Kotsay is going anywhere, my vote is to send Dayan down when Teahen returns

asindc
08-12-2010, 01:11 PM
When the Sox were doing well Getz was quoted as saying he thought the young guys brought a change of pace and put a little more life into the lineup. This offended Konerko in particular, and from that point on Getz was an outcast in the clubhouse. Swisher and Cabrera were both douches, but that isn't why they didn't fit in. They didn't fit in because they didn't fall in line with the same old, lazy "poor us, we can't win in the Metrodome, it's okay for us to slump for an entire month at a time" mindset.

Exactly. Dye has been my favorite player during the KW/Ozzie era, but I really did not like his or Pauly's reaction to what Getz said. In fact, I wholeheartedly agreed with Getz, who is vindicated to some extent by guys like Rios, Pierre, and Putz playing well in previous old haunts like Seattle, Oakland, and Minny (Jenks' latest meltdown there, notwithstanding). The younger/new guys have brought a change of perspective in some ways that are welcome, IMO. Not quite the same, but isn't it interesting that the biggest performers during the Blackout Game were Danks, Junior, and Thome, none of whom were here pre-2005?

Nelfox02
08-12-2010, 01:25 PM
When the Sox were doing well Getz was quoted as saying he thought the young guys brought a change of pace and put a little more life into the lineup. This offended Konerko in particular, and from that point on Getz was an outcast in the clubhouse. Swisher and Cabrera were both douches, but that isn't why they didn't fit in. They didn't fit in because they didn't fall in line with the same old, lazy "poor us, we can't win in the Metrodome, it's okay for us to slump for an entire month at a time" mindset.


Great post---you are dead on here.

The "mind set" you mention, it has been around this team for year, it sucks, I hate it, but it is pervasive no doubt

Nelfox02
08-12-2010, 01:27 PM
When the Sox were doing well Getz was quoted as saying he thought the young guys brought a change of pace and put a little more life into the lineup. This offended Konerko in particular, and from that point on Getz was an outcast in the clubhouse. Swisher and Cabrera were both douches, but that isn't why they didn't fit in. They didn't fit in because they didn't fall in line with the same old, lazy "poor us, we can't win in the Metrodome, it's okay for us to slump for an entire month at a time" mindset.


Great post---you are dead on here.

The "mind set" you mention, it has been around this team for years, it sucks, I hate it, but it is pervasive no doubt

wsgdf
08-12-2010, 01:47 PM
I am quite amazed that this Viciedo kid is allowed to be such a free swinger. I wonder how many players in the history of baseball have started off a career with 80+AB and no walks. Hopefully he will learn about plate presence at AAA when Teahen returns.

Interesting question:

http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/index.php/dayan-viciedos-walk-rate/

This article doesn't quite answer that, but does put some historical perspective around it.

Lip Man 1
08-12-2010, 01:49 PM
Or to put it another way they are mentally weak as a team (i.e. can't win in the Metrodome, had a 10 game losing streak at Oakland, had a 10 game losing streak at Toronto etc...)

Lip

TheOldRoman
08-12-2010, 01:52 PM
Exactly. Dye has been my favorite player during the KW/Ozzie era, but I really did not like his or Pauly's reaction to what Getz said. In fact, I wholeheartedly agreed with Getz, who is vindicated to some extent by guys like Rios, Pierre, and Putz playing well in previous old haunts like Seattle, Oakland, and Minny (Jenks' latest meltdown there, notwithstanding). The younger/new guys have brought a change of perspective in some ways that are welcome, IMO. Not quite the same, but isn't it interesting that the biggest performers during the Blackout Game were Danks, Junior, and Thome, none of whom were here pre-2005?I am the same way. Dye was one of my favorite players of all time, but it was time for him to go. I hated the way he whined when we got Rios (Dye got the same amount of ABs as before, all while hitting under .200). As good as Konerko has been this year, I won't be upset when he leaves. He is the last one remaining from "the Kliq". I just hope Beckham and others aren't infected with the same attitude before then. I have posted it many times, but Cabrera said he had never seen such a defeatist clubhouse. He had never gone into a series (Minn in September) with pretty much the entire team "knowing" they had no chance to win. He has never seen so many heads hung low.

I don't want to see Konerko do his patented head drop after another popup, I don't want to see AJ slam his bat/helmet down after once again grounding out on the first pitch, and I don't want to hear any more "they will hit when the weather heats up, they are trying too hard" excuses. It is to the point where the coaches help spread the mindset, or at lest don't discourage it. This needs to change.

Zakath
08-12-2010, 01:55 PM
No way Kotsay is going anywhere, my vote is to send Dayan down when Teahen returns

Dayan is absolute feast-or-famine right now.

His stats for August:
15 AB, 1 H, 1 HR, 9 K

He only had 6 K's total in 63 AB before this month. Still hasn't drawn a walk.

He's going to see a bunch of high fastballs until he shows he can catch up to them.

delben91
08-12-2010, 02:03 PM
Or to put it another way they are mentally weak as a team (i.e. can't win in the Metrodome, had a 10 game losing streak at Oakland, had a 10 game losing streak at Toronto etc...)

Lip

Not singling you out Lip, since other folks have made similar statements, but...

How do the Sox go about changing this for the remainder of 2010? Assuming no major waiver trade or pickup occurs and the roster is what it is today (plus or minus Teahen), is there any real option for a change?

And what are the implications, that the Sox being supposedly "mentally weak" guarantees a Minnesota victory? Who are the mentally strong Twins players that prevent this weakness?

I'm honestly asking and curious about the answers. This, while quite possibly a true statement is one of those areas where I don't know what to think. For instance, Danks pitched well last night, but isn't a vocal clubhouse leader, despite his performance, is he still mentally weak and destined to eventually let the Sox down in a big game?

fram40
08-12-2010, 02:06 PM
but isn't it interesting that the biggest performers during the Blackout Game were Danks, Junior, and Thome, none of whom were here pre-2005?

What the hell did Junior do? make a throw from medium center to throw out a slowish Cuddyer? bfd - That's aplay any competent outfielder makes - even Wise or Mac would have made the throw. Especially Wise

I am sick and tored of hearing about Griffey's alleged contributions to the 2008 team and game 163.

fram40
08-12-2010, 02:10 PM
Not singling you out Lip, since other folks have made similar statements, but...

How do the Sox go about changing this for the remainder of 2010? Assuming no major waiver trade or pickup occurs and the roster is what it is today (plus or minus Teahen), is there any real option for a change?

And what are the implications, that the Sox being supposedly "mentally weak" guarantees a Minnesota victory? Who are the mentally strong Twins players that prevent this weakness?

I'm honestly asking and curious about the answers. This, while quite possibly a true statement is one of those areas where I don't know what to think. For instance, Danks pitched well last night, but isn't a vocal clubhouse leader, despite his performance, is he still mentally weak and destined to eventually let the Sox down in a big game?

And is it possible to have a bunch of mentally strong individuals (ala Danks and AJ) yet have a mentally weak team?

asindc
08-12-2010, 02:19 PM
What the hell did Junior do? make a throw from medium center to throw out a slowish Cuddyer? bfd - That's aplay any competent outfielder makes - even Wise or Mac would have made the throw. Especially Wise

I am sick and tored of hearing about Griffey's alleged contributions to the 2008 team and game 163.

Did Junior kick your dog or something?

Sunnydre
08-12-2010, 02:21 PM
Hope we win tonight.

Chez
08-12-2010, 02:29 PM
Hope we win tonight.

POTW!! :D: Welcome.

soltrain21
08-12-2010, 02:33 PM
Hope we win tonight.

I like the cut of your jib.

wsgdf
08-12-2010, 02:36 PM
I have posted it many times, but Cabrera said he had never seen such a defeatist clubhouse. He had never gone into a series (Minn in September) with pretty much the entire team "knowing" they had no chance to win. He has never seen so many heads hung low.

Orlando Cabrera was one joke of a brain dead player.

I can't remember being more disappointed watching someone day in and day out.

I wonder if he felt that way when the Sox handed his ass to him in the playoffs.

What a stroke.

kobo
08-12-2010, 02:49 PM
Or to put it another way they are mentally weak as a team (i.e. can't win in the Metrodome, had a 10 game losing streak at Oakland, had a 10 game losing streak at Toronto etc...)

Lip
Right, but that begs the question, where does the mentality start? With Ozzie, or with the Veterans?

wsgdf
08-12-2010, 03:05 PM
Right, but that begs the question, where does the mentality start? With Ozzie, or with the Veterans?

The only way to know for certain is to compile a list of all teams that have ever had a 10 game losing streak in a certain city or a certain stadium or against a certain team, and then sort them by the mental toughness of their managers and veterans.

The next step would be to determine which managers and veterans on said team are most similar to Ozzie and the veterans on the White Sox.

Finally, factor out other possible causes of the mentality (bullpen coaches, clubhouse attendants, bat boys, girlfriends, etc...)

GoGoCrede
08-12-2010, 03:14 PM
What the hell did Junior do? make a throw from medium center to throw out a slowish Cuddyer? bfd - That's aplay any competent outfielder makes - even Wise or Mac would have made the throw. Especially Wise

I am sick and tored of hearing about Griffey's alleged contributions to the 2008 team and game 163.

Who cares if anyone else could have made the catch? The point is that Junior did, and gave us one of the most memorable moments in Sox history.

There's no "alleged" about it, Junior made an important contribution in that game. That's a fact.

TheOldRoman
08-12-2010, 03:20 PM
Who cares if anyone else could have made the catch? The point is that Junior did, and gave us one of the most memorable moments in Sox history.

There's no "alleged" about it, Junior made an important contribution in that game. That's a fact.Yeah, Junior contributed to that team. I think it has just been the people who hated the acquisition the whole time, but several people have been marginalizing that play, and it gets more exaggerated all the time. In a few years Griffey will have caught it two steps behind 2B and two-hopped the throw to get Cuddyer who tripped and fell on the way home.

oeo
08-12-2010, 03:30 PM
Orlando Cabrera was one joke of a brain dead player.

I can't remember being more disappointed watching someone day in and day out.

I wonder if he felt that way when the Sox handed his ass to him in the playoffs.

What a stroke.

I still don't get why Cabrera was so disliked here. Some of his play was a bit overrated before he came here, and he disappointed in some aspects, but I loved his clubhouse presence. Still laugh whenever anyone brings up that Balfour incident in the playoffs. Oh no, he defended his teammate, how dare he?!

I also loved the fact that he called them out in September. We need more guys like Orlando Cabrera, not less.

Chez
08-12-2010, 03:43 PM
I still don't get why Cabrera was so disliked here. Some of his play was a bit overrated before he came here, and he disappointed in some aspects, but I loved his clubhouse presence. Still laugh whenever anyone brings up that Balfour incident in the playoffs. Oh no, he defended his teammate, how dare he?!

I also loved the fact that he called them out in September. We need more guys like Orlando Cabrera, not less.

I agree. Cabrera was the Sox best player in September '08. He's been to the playoffs three consecutive years with three different teams (and it will be 4 with 4 if the Reds make it this year). I don't think that is a coincidence.

Lip Man 1
08-12-2010, 03:44 PM
Delben:

I don't think there is anything that can be done the rest of this season. It is what it is.

I also don't know if anything can be done in the future to bring in some vocal guys who will hold themselves and their teammates accountable if certain things aren't being done or effort is lacking.

Ozzie apparently wants it that way. I can't understand why that is such an issue for him since as I've said in the past from talking to players and former players, while they respect a manager nothing gets their attention more than when a teammate says something good or bad.

As far as Minnesota's vocal leaders, two who immediately come to mind are Kubel and Punto. Nathan I've been told also isn't afraid to share his feelings in a clubhouse towards teammates.

Roman has pointed out some good examples of what's happened in the past and how the Sox apparently go into series already feeling beat and there is also the "urban myth" postulated by Morneau that in 2003 when the divisional title was on the line at the Metrodome in mid September someone from the Sox who got to first base, "congratulated" Morneau and the Twins for "winning the division."

The kicker was it was only the second game of a three game series and there were still games to be played the following week.

If this did in fact happen it sums things up pretty well as far as the Sox overall mental strength's.

The Sox for the most part have had guys like Thome, Dye, Konerko, Buehrle etc populate their roster. Good players, great people but not vocal leaders. That's not their style, that's not their personality. They still haven't replaced Everett and Rowand from that particular characteristic.

I think if guys like Landis, Fox, Fisk were on this club and saw the 'laid-back' attitude that seems to permiate things, they wouldn't believe it. And I contend that is part of the reason they have had some pretty bad losses to some pretty bad teams over the past decade...I'm talking to a Tigers team that lost over a 100 games, to a bad K.C. club over the years, to the Clevalnd's and Baltimore's of the world this season.

Lip

delben91
08-12-2010, 03:52 PM
Delben:

I don't think there is anything that can be done the rest of this season. It is what it is.

I also don't know if anything can be done in the future to bring in some vocal guys who will hold themselves and their teammates accountable if certain things aren't being done or effort is lacking.

Ozzie apparently wants it that way. I can't understand why that is such an issue for him since as I've said in the past from talking to players and former players, while they respect a manager nothing gets their attention more than when a teammate says something good or bad.

As far as Minnesota's vocal leaders, two who immediately come to mind are Kubel and Punto. Nathan I've been told also isn't afraid to share his feelings in a clubhouse towards teammates.

Roman has pointed out some good examples of what's happened in the past and how the Sox apparently go into series already feeling beat and there is also the "urban myth" postulated by Morneau that in 2003 when the divisional title was on the line at the Metrodome in mid September someone from the Sox who got to first base, "congratulated" Morneau and the Twins for "winning the division."

The kicker was it was only the second game of a three game series and there were still games to be played the following week.

If this did in fact happen it sums things up pretty well as far as the Sox overall mental strength's.

The Sox for the most part have had guys like Thome, Dye, Konerko, Buehrle etc populate their roster. Good players, great people but not vocal leaders. That's not their style, that's not their personality. They still haven't replaced Everett and Rowand from that particular characteristic.

Lip

I'd consider Thome, Konerko and Buehrle mentally strong players. Though not necessarily vocal leaders. So I'm wondering how to differentiate between the fact that I think the Sox have several mentally strong individuals (Konerko, Buehrle, Vizquel, Pierzynski, Floyd, Thornton, Quentin, Danks) but somehow that doesn't equate to a mentally strong team?

Perhaps the term "mentally strong" just doesn't naturally associate with "vocal leader" in my mind.

wsgdf
08-12-2010, 03:54 PM
I agree. Cabrera was the Sox best player in September '08. He's been to the playoffs three consecutive years with three different teams (and it will be 4 with 4 if the Reds make it this year). I don't think that is a coincidence.

I'm pretty sure it is a coincidence.

Chez
08-12-2010, 03:55 PM
Delben:

I don't think there is anything that can be done the rest of this season. It is what it is.

I also don't know if anything can be done in the future to bring in some vocal guys who will hold themselves and their teammates accountable if certain things aren't being done or effort is lacking.

Ozzie apparently wants it that way. I can't understand why that is such an issue for him since as I've said in the past from talking to players and former players, while they respect a manager nothing gets their attention more than when a teammate says something good or bad.

As far as Minnesota's vocal leaders, two who immediately come to mind are Kubel and Punto. Nathan I've been told also isn't afraid to share his feelings in a clubhouse towards teammates.

Roman has pointed out some good examples of what's happened in the past and how the Sox apparently go into series already feeling beat and there is also the "urban myth" postulated by Morneau that in 2003 when the divisional title was on the line at the Metrodome in mid September someone from the Sox who got to first base, "congratulated" Morneau and the Twins for "winning the division."

The kicker was it was only the second game of a three game series and there were still games to be played the following week.

If this did in fact happen it sums things up pretty well as far as the Sox overall mental strength's.

The Sox for the most part have had guys like Thome, Dye, Konerko, Buehrle etc populate their roster. Good players, great people but not vocal leaders. That's not their style, that's not their personality. They still haven't replaced Everett and Rowand from that particular characteristic.

I think if guys like Landis, Fox, Fisk were on this club and saw the 'laid-back' attitude that seems to permiate things, they wouldn't believe it. And I contend that is part of the reason they have had some pretty bad losses to some pretty bad teams over the past decade...I'm talking to a Tigers team that lost over a 100 games, to a bad K.C. club over the years, to the Clevalnd's and Baltimore's of the world this season.

Lip
Unlikely it was Morneau. He wasn't the Twinkies regular at first until 2005. Mientkowicz? Maybe it never happened?

jdm2662
08-12-2010, 03:57 PM
I'd consider Thome, Konerko and Buehrle mentally strong players. Though not necessarily vocal leaders. So I'm wondering how to differentiate between the fact that I think the Sox have several mentally strong individuals (Konerko, Buehrle, Vizquel, Pierzynski, Floyd, Thornton, Quentin, Danks) but somehow that doesn't equate to a mentally strong team?

Perhaps the term "mentally strong" just doesn't naturally associate with "vocal leader" in my mind.

They are two different things. I can jump up and down, scream, get on people's cases for dogging it, etc. And you know what? I'd still be the worst player in the MLB because I couldn't play baseball passed age 10. Being mentally strong means lettings things not bother you, even in the worst of times. There are bad plays, bounces, breaks, calls, etc. that are going to happen in a give time. The mentally strong ones are the ones that brushes it off and keeps playing. The mentally weak are the ones that let it bother them and makes things worse.

The Sox are mentally weak in some areas because they let certain stuff bother them, not because they are not vocal leaders.

If anything, I can make a case hte Twins are mentally weak. Instead of taking care of business against KC at home, they whinned and moaned on how unfair it was to come to Chicago for the tie-breaker. They also made many mental errors just last night.

delben91
08-12-2010, 03:59 PM
They are two different things. I can jump up and down, scream, get on people's cases for dogging it, etc. And you know what? I'd still be the worst player in the MLB because I couldn't play baseball passed age 10. Being mentally strong means lettings things not bother you, even in the worst of times. There are bad plays, bounces, breaks, calls, etc. that are going to happen in a give time. The mentally strong ones are the ones that brushes it off and keeps playing. The mentally weak are the ones that let it bother them and makes things worse.

The Sox are mentally weak in some areas because they let certain stuff bother them, not because they are not vocal leaders.

If anything, I can make a case hte Twins are mentally weak. Instead of taking care of business against KC at home, they whinned and moaned on how unfair it was to come to Chicago for the tie-breaker.

See, I can agree with this, but so often I see the case that the Sox are mentally weak because they don't have any vocal clubhouse leadership. I'd argue the two are independent traits, though usually I'd think a mentally strong player and a vocal leader are two traits that would go hand in hand.

Don't think one is causal by any means though.

shingo10
08-12-2010, 04:07 PM
In May and the beginning of June the consensus around here was that the Sox were "mentally weak" and that the veterans were just phoning it in for the season. People claimed that the Sox had no accountability in their clubhouse and that the season was over.

Obviously they proved a lot of people wrong by playing the way they have and not giving up and climbing back into the race. For this I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt for the rest of the season. Maybe they don't have typical, vocal leaders but honestly what good has this done for the Twins lately? Where's that leadership been to get them out of the first round of the playoffs? The main thing is just to go out and play and win. The rest takes care of itself.

Nelfox02
08-12-2010, 04:11 PM
Dayan is absolute feast-or-famine right now.

He's going to see a bunch of high fastballs until he shows he can catch up to them.

or lay off of them....

the location on some of the balls he is swinging at upstairs, no one could catch......

balke
08-12-2010, 04:15 PM
Delben:

I don't think there is anything that can be done the rest of this season. It is what it is.

I also don't know if anything can be done in the future to bring in some vocal guys who will hold themselves and their teammates accountable if certain things aren't being done or effort is lacking.

Ozzie apparently wants it that way. I can't understand why that is such an issue for him since as I've said in the past from talking to players and former players, while they respect a manager nothing gets their attention more than when a teammate says something good or bad.

As far as Minnesota's vocal leaders, two who immediately come to mind are Kubel and Punto. Nathan I've been told also isn't afraid to share his feelings in a clubhouse towards teammates.

Roman has pointed out some good examples of what's happened in the past and how the Sox apparently go into series already feeling beat and there is also the "urban myth" postulated by Morneau that in 2003 when the divisional title was on the line at the Metrodome in mid September someone from the Sox who got to first base, "congratulated" Morneau and the Twins for "winning the division."

The kicker was it was only the second game of a three game series and there were still games to be played the following week.

If this did in fact happen it sums things up pretty well as far as the Sox overall mental strength's.

The Sox for the most part have had guys like Thome, Dye, Konerko, Buehrle etc populate their roster. Good players, great people but not vocal leaders. That's not their style, that's not their personality. They still haven't replaced Everett and Rowand from that particular characteristic.

I think if guys like Landis, Fox, Fisk were on this club and saw the 'laid-back' attitude that seems to permiate things, they wouldn't believe it. And I contend that is part of the reason they have had some pretty bad losses to some pretty bad teams over the past decade...I'm talking to a Tigers team that lost over a 100 games, to a bad K.C. club over the years, to the Clevalnd's and Baltimore's of the world this season.

Lip

You can't have it both ways though. Sure the Sox have lost to bad teams (That Tigers sweep had more to do with the coach at that time - Jerry Manuel. Someone who should've been fired way before he was). The Sox have also beaten great teams - like the Rays.

Regardless - they are even with the Twinkies right now - and were better just a few days ago. No point in modeling this team after them if this team is better.

Rowand I always heard was serious and passionate about the White Sox. Everett being vocal probably sounded pretty flat coming from a guy a lot of people think is crazy. I don't see him as a good example.


FWIW Beckham supposedly had good leadership qualities and looks to be a vocal and leader by example on the Sox for years to come.

I think Ozzie has done a great job of being vocal. He called out Swisher - Alexei for bad D - and always seems to take the pressure off the team in a slump by putting the focus on himself. I think as you heard - he may get A.L. manager of the year.

FielderJones
08-12-2010, 04:40 PM
Unlikely it was Morneau. He wasn't the Twinkies regular at first until 2005. Mientkowicz? Maybe it never happened?

A lot of hearsay in this thread, with precious little documentation. I take things more seriously when a sports writer will put it on the record under his own byline.

Craig Grebeck
08-12-2010, 04:42 PM
Armchair psychiatry = nauseating.

None of us have any business stating "X player is mentally strong," etc.

wsgdf
08-12-2010, 04:55 PM
Armchair psychiatry = nauseating.

None of us have any business stating "X player is mentally strong," etc.

Agree 100%.

TheOldRoman
08-12-2010, 04:57 PM
Armchair psychiatry = nauseating.

None of us have any business stating "X player is mentally strong," etc.You are right, if only there were a stat to measure mental toughness...

Craig Grebeck
08-12-2010, 04:59 PM
You are right, if only there were a stat to measure mental toughness...
If only people I didn't know, people who never spoke with me, and only saw me in my office, people with selective memories, biases, and no psychiatric training, could pick apart my brain and proudly state: "this here kid is a mental midget!" Oh, what a wonderful world that would be.

Taliesinrk
08-12-2010, 05:03 PM
you are right, if only there were a stat to measure mental toughness...

potw

Craig Grebeck
08-12-2010, 05:08 PM
potw
When confronted with an alternative opinion, stick to your guns! Bring up stats/Bill James/nerds, even if they are not relevant, interesting, or remotely humorous.

Your opponent, being a nerd, Bill James disciple, or kid in his mother's basement, will be aghast as you high-five your compadres.

AND ROUND AND ROUND WE GO

The Immigrant
08-12-2010, 05:19 PM
It's funny, nobody questioned anyone's mental toughness or leadership when this team was winning games by the dozen. But oh boy, we see them lose three in a row and all of a sudden it's because of mental weakness or lack of leadership. :rolleyes: I remember hearing/reading the same type of bull**** in August 2005.

By the way, I would love to see Mark Gonzales (sorry, the "anonymous beat writer") make these types of comments directly to A.J. or Omar, put them in the paper, or even post them on Twitter, but I won't hold my breath. I would also love to see the question that prompted this type of a weasely response from him.

Lip Man 1
08-12-2010, 05:28 PM
Chez:

You're right it was Doug M. (there's no way I can spell his last name off the top of my head...) :D:

And to be clear I called this an "urban legend" but I know I read about it somewhere perhaps out of a Minnesota newspaper.

Lip

TheOldRoman
08-12-2010, 05:38 PM
When confronted with an alternative opinion, stick to your guns! Bring up stats/Bill James/nerds, even if they are not relevant, interesting, or remotely humorous.

Your opponent, being a nerd, Bill James disciple, or kid in his mother's basement, will be aghast as you high-five your compadres.

AND ROUND AND ROUND WE GOSo, you are suggesting we should wholly reject anything which doesn't fit within our agenda, much the same way you do?

Lip Man 1
08-12-2010, 05:38 PM
Shingo:

To be fair to win in the playoffs you have to have talent and the Twins have been simply overmatched most of the time against the Yankees.

Immigrant:

My comments aren't necessarily a reflection or classification of this season But you will admit the Sox have had a track record this past decade of some unusual things, losing like they have at the Metrodome, in Oakland, in Toronto is just one example.

You can also point out the final two weeks of the 2003 season, what happened after July in 2006 and even in 2008 though they rebounded impressively, you can't simply dismiss the fact they blew a 2 1/2 game lead the final week which forced them into the situation where they had to play to get to and then win game #163.

Each time in those three cases it was the Twins who somehow overcame things to at least get themselves into a position where they could play in the postseason or get a shot for postseason play. That can't be dismissed and says something about those players that they could do that three times in five seasons and they did it again last year coming from behind to catch Detroit and win a game #163.

Not saying they are the "be all, end all..." but they have to get credit for doing something right when things get very tough.

Lip

Craig Grebeck
08-12-2010, 05:42 PM
So, you are suggesting we should wholly reject anything which doesn't fit within our agenda, much the same way you do?
No, I'm suggesting armchair psychiatry is ****ing stupid. You're the one who brought stats up because, gasp, I think they're worthwhile and, gasp, you think that's some sort of target on my back.

TheOldRoman
08-12-2010, 05:48 PM
It's funny, nobody questioned anyone's mental toughness or leadership when this team was winning games by the dozen. But oh boy, we see them lose three in a row and all of a sudden it's because of mental weakness or lack of leadership. :rolleyes: I remember hearing/reading the same type of bull**** in August 2005.

By the way, I would love to see Mark Gonzales (sorry, the "anonymous beat writer") make these types of comments directly to A.J. or Omar, put them in the paper, or even post them on Twitter, but I won't hold my breath. I would also love to see the question that prompted this type of a weasely response from him.I don't agree with what the anonymous beat writer said, but there are underlying issues here. This team is streaky as hell. In past seasons, particularly as 2006 swirled around the drain, there was no sense of ugency. It is like they are sitting back waiting for a dramatic, walk-off type moment to change their luck. It has been reported many times that the Sox got "tight spincters" playing in the Metrodome. They openly complained about it, they had a countdown of games left there, and they obviously let it get into their heads. Seeing their body language in the Dome series, particuarly in Spet 2008, showed that the Sox went in expecting to lose. Every bad bounce or freak error and the heads would drop. Hawk would say "it's happening again," and that would be repeating what was being said in the dugout.

The defeatest quote wasn't from a message boarder, it was from a member of the team. The Sox were defeated before they ever took the field. The clubhouse was a lifeless, morgue like atmosphere. The Twins knew this, too. I don't know if you want to chalk that up to a lack of mental toughness or what, but it clearly is what happened. There is a distinct negative attitude in our clubhouse which needs to change. All is well when the Sox are winning and the ball is flying out of the park, but over the past 8 years (minus 2005), when something goes wrong they panic again, particularly against the Twins.

No, I'm suggesting armchair psychiatry is ****ing stupid. You're the one who brought stats up because, gasp, I think they're worthwhile and, gasp, you think that's some sort of target on my back.It was a joke, based on you only accepting things which can be quantified somehow. No biggie.

Craig Grebeck
08-12-2010, 05:52 PM
I don't agree with what the anonymous beat writer said, but there are underlying issues here. This team is streaky as hell. In past seasons, particularly as 2006 swirled around the drain, there was no sense of ugency. It is like they are sitting back waiting for a dramatic, walk-off type moment to change their luck. It has been reported many times that the Sox got "tight spincters" playing in the Metrodome. They openly complained about it, they had a countdown of games left there, and they obviously let it get into their heads. Seeing their body language in the Dome series, particuarly in Spet 2008, showed that the Sox went in expecting to lose. Every bad bounce or freak error and the heads would drop. Hawk would say "it's happening again," and that would be repeating what was being said in the dugout.

The defeatest quote wasn't from a message boarder, it was from a member of the team. The Sox were defeated before they ever took the field. The clubhouse was a lifeless, morgue like atmosphere. The Twins knew this, too. I don't know if you want to chalk that up to a lack of mental toughness or what, but it clearly is what happened. There is a distinct negative attitude in our clubhouse which needs to change. All is well when the Sox are winning and the ball is flying out of the park, but over the past 8 years (minus 2005), when something goes wrong they panic again, particularly against the Twins.

I can't argue against the notion that they struggle with the Twins. There does seem to be a weird dynamic here; it's as though certain members of the organization are falling all over themselves about the Twins, awestruck every time Nick Punto hits one the other way or Jason Repko hits a seeing-eye single.

I wouldn't call it a mental weakness, but a poor outlook for sure. Of course, I know that Hawk's attitude towards the Twins colors my analysis here, as his crush on their entire 40-man roster has only worsened in recent years.

GoGoCrede
08-12-2010, 07:02 PM
Yeah, Junior contributed to that team. I think it has just been the people who hated the acquisition the whole time, but several people have been marginalizing that play, and it gets more exaggerated all the time. In a few years Griffey will have caught it two steps behind 2B and two-hopped the throw to get Cuddyer who tripped and fell on the way home.

And I don't know why. I know Griffey didn't have a career year when he was here, but he was part of what made Game 163 truly memorable. Why trivialize it, especially when we've all got it on tape? It's Griffey. One day, I'll be able to tell my kids I saw him make that play in person.

There are plenty of other players who didn't contribute that are far more worthy of ridicule.

TheOldRoman
08-12-2010, 07:45 PM
I can't argue against the notion that they struggle with the Twins. There does seem to be a weird dynamic here; it's as though certain members of the organization are falling all over themselves about the Twins, awestruck every time Nick Punto hits one the other way or Jason Repko hits a seeing-eye single.

I wouldn't call it a mental weakness, but a poor outlook for sure. Of course, I know that Hawk's attitude towards the Twins colors my analysis here, as his crush on their entire 40-man roster has only worsened in recent years.I am not going to say the team is mentally weak, but something is going on here. The ass-kissing of the entire Twins organization, whether it is done sarcastically or not, probably adds to it. I hope Target Field doesn't become a "house of horrors" where the Sox chalk up 3 losses every trip there, but judging from the last three games there they are well on their way. Whether or not people like Hawk, you have to remember that he is on the airplane with these guys. He knows how they act and feel. I think his attitude of "here we go again" when a ball takes a bad bounce in Minny is a clear reflection of the team's.

Nellie_Fox
08-13-2010, 01:39 AM
I was wondering the same thing. I know there is some baseball karma going on considering the tear the SOX have been on since Teahan left, however the fact that he's hitting the ball well, while the SOX continue to try and fill the LH hitting void makes me wonder whether Teahan had any clubhouse issues before going down with his injury.

The most logical statistical choice would be to move Kotsay, however we know that Ozzie and his teammates love him so who goes? Lillibridge deserves to stay, Jones deserves to stay, Vizquel isn't going anywhere. :scratch:Dayan has clearly demonstrated that he's not ready for the major leagues. Teams now know that you simply don't throw him strikes and he'll get himself out. He swings at anything and everything. If he stays up here, he'll be destroyed soon. Tonight, Blyleven said "why would you ever throw this guy a strike? He's one of those guys who look great in batting practice." And before you start ripping on Blyleven, he's absolutely right. Viciedo's going to have to learn some plate discipline, or his career will be very short and little remembered.

Noneck
08-13-2010, 01:49 AM
Tonight, Blyleven said "why would you ever throw this guy a strike? He's one of those guys who look great in batting practice." And before you start ripping on Blyleven, he's absolutely right. Viciedo's going to have to learn some plate discipline, or his career will be very short and little remembered.

And the Sox announcer keeps praising this guy like he is the second coming of Frank Thomas or Carlos Lee. I suppose the difference here is that the Twins have a baseball analyst and the Sox have a carnival barker.

doublem23
08-13-2010, 08:59 AM
Dayan has clearly demonstrated that he's not ready for the major leagues. Teams now know that you simply don't throw him strikes and he'll get himself out. He swings at anything and everything. If he stays up here, he'll be destroyed soon. Tonight, Blyleven said "why would you ever throw this guy a strike? He's one of those guys who look great in batting practice." And before you start ripping on Blyleven, he's absolutely right. Viciedo's going to have to learn some plate discipline, or his career will be very short and little remembered.

And that's a load. of. ****. The guy's in a funk right now, he MURDERED that line drive in Baltimore and missed a grand slam by like... 4 feet last night. I keep hearing Kotsay is bound to break out any day now because he's been hitting balls right at people since Spring Training. I don't disagree that Dayan is better off playing everyday in AAA, but he's also still probably the best option we have for an everyday DH here, too. Now, we get the Kotsay/Jones/Teahen DH menage a **** until October. Awesome. :thumbsup: